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VirginFlyer
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:05 am

NZ6 wrote:
I actually don't know much about the 3C flights here. Is the purpose of the route one of freight followed by carrying a few passengers as a bonus? Or is their aim to make it a viable passenger route?

I am reasonably sure the purpose is passenger. At up to 68 seats each way each week, it is clearly not going for the mass market of VLI, NOU, APW, TBU, RAR, NAN, PPT, OOL, BNE, CNS, MCY etc. Air Chathams appear to believe there is sufficient demand to bring the service back (and they would no doubt have data from the loadings when it last operated, from the enquires they would have been receiving about it as a destination, and from the tourism promotion agency there). Given the complexity involved in operating internationally, I doubt they would be going to the effort if they didn’t genuinely believe it was worth operating.

V/F
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:32 am

DavidByrne wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
https://simpleflying.com/air-new-zealand-tasmania/amp/

I'm no great fan of that particular website/app as it appears (as per its name) to reflect a simplistic view of almost everything it covers. But the numbers are interesting.

Interestingly there appears to be wide awareness in Tasmania about the flights, and I know two couples who are already planning trips to NZ in June-July. What the article doesn't appear to appreciate is that the mere existence of the link will generate traffic that wouldn't otherwise have considered a trip - in both directions. As do new routes the world over. And there's potential for a decent number of pax travelling on to North America and the Pacific Islands as well as point-to-point traffic. So I'm a little more optimistic than the author with "the incredible aviation brain" as the site portrays him.


Just to add to my earlier comment, the "incredible aviation brain" was also quite wrong when he said that Hobart was NZ's largest unserved city in Australia. He's forgetting, of course, that Canberra is around 2.5 times larger than Hobart.

Which raises the point: does CBR have a chance of being added to the network soon?


I can't see them giving it a go unfortunately. Correct about the error though. Along with Canberra there are other far larger cities than Hobart namely Newcastle and Wollongong. He not done much research. Neither are likely to see Air NZ metal.
 
tom90
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:57 pm

Two things, I am wondering if AirNZ have soft bookings during the week this week for Trans Tasman. Quite a few flights cancelled out of AKL today, and nothing scheduled at all to or from WLG, CHC or ZQN that I can see. Anyone got any insight ?

Also, noticed this morning at AKL the one of the 777-300ER (one in all Black livery) seems to be "waking up". Had a lot of it protective coverings removed, door was open with stairs up to it etc. The other two are still well "wrapped up". Is AirNZ getting ready to start using this for freight only or putting it back into regular services ?
 
Kent350787
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:45 pm

NZ516 wrote:
I can't see them giving it a go unfortunately. Correct about the error though. Along with Canberra there are other far larger cities than Hobart namely Newcastle and Wollongong. He not done much research. Neither are likely to see Air NZ metal.


Wollongong-Shellharbour is larger, true. If it was in Europe, Ryanair would probably serve it as Sydney (Wollongong), as it's only 90 mins drive from Sydney. Newcastle surprises me more as even the tiniest bit of reaerch would show that it has previously had scheduled direct flights. The Hunter Valley has a larger population than Tasmania.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:34 am

tom90 wrote:
Two things, I am wondering if AirNZ have soft bookings during the week this week for Trans Tasman. Quite a few flights cancelled out of AKL today, and nothing scheduled at all to or from WLG, CHC or ZQN that I can see. Anyone got any insight ?

Also, noticed this morning at AKL the one of the 777-300ER (one in all Black livery) seems to be "waking up". Had a lot of it protective coverings removed, door was open with stairs up to it etc. The other two are still well "wrapped up". Is AirNZ getting ready to start using this for freight only or putting it back into regular services ?


Not sure on point 1.

Regarding the 77W probably going to do an engine run or some maintenance or something, they are kept airworthy and move from time to time. They won’t be using it anytime soon while the 787 fleet isn’t used fully.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:58 am

Part of the monthly storage maintenance regime, for the 777s.. There are 2 787s out of service with defects, so still plenty of spare capacity to cope at this stage. If the 777s haven't been restored by September they probably won't, is my understanding
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:35 am

Tomorrow's AKL-HBA-AKL will be A321NEO ZK-NNA. Presumably just for the photo op, then A320s or A320NEOs.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-nna

Saw a comment recently that A320NEO ZK-NHE, due for delivery in August, will be in the Star Alliance livery.

PA515
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:09 am

PA515 wrote:

Saw a comment recently that A320NEO ZK-NHE, due for delivery in August, will be in the Star Alliance livery.

PA515


Makes sense now OJH has left the fleet and is flying in Pakistan these days. No point in having a domestic only aircraft painted as star alliance.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:52 am

tom90 wrote:
Two things, I am wondering if AirNZ have soft bookings during the week this week for Trans Tasman. Quite a few flights cancelled out of AKL today, and nothing scheduled at all to or from WLG, CHC or ZQN that I can see. Anyone got any insight ?


I'll make a few comments... don't forget there was a very small lead time and still a lot of caution in the back of peoples minds.

It's been the expectation from most that the first "wave" of passengers would be families being reunited etc vs holiday makers or business travel.

Given the uncertainty and the fact we're in the holidays with this was announced 2 weeks prior and it being the shoulder season etc it all supports a cautions slow restart.

As we move forward in the coming months I expect people to jump the ditch for holidays and business which will further support passenger confidence.

I know there's been a lot of enquiry/forward bookings around the second half of the year.

I'd expect it to gradually build as the months go on.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:24 am

But also surprising that neither NZ or QF (or JQ) have come in with any special promotional fares to relaunch which is intetesting. Are they thinking that the initial pax are prepared to pay higher fares. I suspect we will see some promotional offers soon.
 
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zkojq
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:48 am

With all this talk about the Air Chathams service to Norfolk Island in the Saab 340, it begs the question of do their Saabs have running water? The one I was last in didn't - just a bottle of sanitizer. Not sure that's adequate for a flight of 2h 45m....

NZ6 wrote:
after all the population of Avarua is under 5,000 yet that has daily flights, sometimes double with widebody.


Well that was an eye opener for me. Following your comment I googled the Cook Islands and discovered that the population is only ~17,000. Not something I think about much, but I had it in my mind that it was something like 150,000. :banghead:
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:55 am

zkojq wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
after all the population of Avarua is under 5,000 yet that has daily flights, sometimes double with widebody.


Well that was an eye opener for me. Following your comment I googled the Cook Islands and discovered that the population is only ~17,000. Not something I think about much, but I had it in my mind that it was something like 150,000. :banghead:

Indeed; Tonga’s population is only around 100,000, and Samoa’s around 200,000. Wait until you learn what Niue’s population is though...

V/F
 
tullamarine
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:05 am

South China Morning Post is reporting that, following a review of its planned post-Covid network operations, CX will close its pilot bases in both Australia and New Zealand. Its Canada pilot base is also being axed. US and European bases are still being reviewed with further cuts likely.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:48 am

Kiwings wrote:
But also surprising that neither NZ or QF (or JQ) have come in with any special promotional fares to relaunch which is intetesting. Are they thinking that the initial pax are prepared to pay higher fares. I suspect we will see some promotional offers soon.


low frequency and limited capacity do nothing for sale fares and low yields. I expect the airlines are understandably trying to cover as many of the ongoing operating costs on their limited networks right now.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:23 am

aerorobnz wrote:
Kiwings wrote:
But also surprising that neither NZ or QF (or JQ) have come in with any special promotional fares to relaunch which is intetesting. Are they thinking that the initial pax are prepared to pay higher fares. I suspect we will see some promotional offers soon.


low frequency and limited capacity do nothing for sale fares and low yields. I expect the airlines are understandably trying to cover as many of the ongoing operating costs on their limited networks right now.


Also Airport Cost have increased since COVID.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:27 am

aerorobnz wrote:
Part of the monthly storage maintenance regime, for the 777s.. There are 2 787s out of service with defects, so still plenty of spare capacity to cope at this stage. If the 777s haven't been restored by September they probably won't, is my understanding


And to clarify I don’t believe any 78Js have been deferred yet atleast? So potentially new capacity coming later next year anyway, weather it is needed or will be deferred as late as possible remains to be seen.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:00 am

aerorobnz wrote:
Part of the monthly storage maintenance regime, for the 777s.. There are 2 787s out of service with defects, so still plenty of spare capacity to cope at this stage. If the 777s haven't been restored by September they probably won't, is my understanding

77E I’d say yes. 77W though? Doubt it. 777 still make up half the wide body fleet. So unless 78J start arriving before flights get back to 50% then the 77W will be needed. Remember also that none of the 789 have a particularly large business cabin and those travellers will be among the first to want to get back travelling.
 
tom90
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:37 pm

Hmm as I suspected AirNZ did cancel some this week across the Tasman. But it is building up which is good.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2 ... tions.html
 
tom90
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:52 pm

tom90 wrote:
Hmm as I suspected AirNZ did cancel some this week across the Tasman. But it is building up which is good.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2 ... tions.html


And 40,000 pax today is very encouraging too!
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:13 pm

tom90 wrote:
tom90 wrote:
Hmm as I suspected AirNZ did cancel some this week across the Tasman. But it is building up which is good.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2 ... tions.html


And 40,000 pax today is very encouraging too!


I think the 40,000 is Domestic + Tasman passengers, still is very encouraging.

I was looking at last minute trip this morning for this afternoon to travel down to ZQN. But it was around $400 Seat Only so bookings must be very strong today.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:40 am

https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/wanaka/wa ... QInDolryZ4

I guess this means that the prospect of jet services into Wanaka is now remote. I think that Christchurch Airport will be popping the champagne and looking to their plans for an airport at Tarras.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:08 am

Kent350787 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
I can't see them giving it a go unfortunately. Correct about the error though. Along with Canberra there are other far larger cities than Hobart namely Newcastle and Wollongong. He not done much research. Neither are likely to see Air NZ metal.


Wollongong-Shellharbour is larger, true. If it was in Europe, Ryanair would probably serve it as Sydney (Wollongong), as it's only 90 mins drive from Sydney. Newcastle surprises me more as even the tiniest bit of reaerch would show that it has previously had scheduled direct flights. The Hunter Valley has a larger population than Tasmania.


Further to this discussion. I now think that JQ could give the NTL - AKL route a go as they have just announced a new route to Cairns and I doubt we will see VA back for while. It's a big population catchment too large not to serve.
https://corporatetravelcommunity.com/je ... s-service/
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:41 am

DavidByrne wrote:
https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/wanaka/wanaka-airport-unlawful-lease-decision-overturned?fbclid=IwAR1vO2FwlOX1uIFiOHMHENRBcl6PilSrhFyhGPLDSNemN_IMWQInDolryZ4

I guess this means that the prospect of jet services into Wanaka is now remote. I think that Christchurch Airport will be popping the champagne and looking to their plans for an airport at Tarras.


I really don’t see the need/point of Tarras airport, it is going to be like the Luton of Queenstown.

It’s at least an hours drive out of Queenstown to Tarras, in winter on an route that is subject to weather conditions.

Do we really want overseas tourists having there first experience of driving in New Zealand at Night via the Gibson Valley?

The road in/out of Queentown to the North is pretty poor.

You have the Crown Range or Via Cromwell both involved some pretty average roads by International standards.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:24 am

If you're going to do that just replace both airports and build some proper public transport links into the urban centres.
 
NZ801
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:20 am

DavidByrne wrote:
https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/wanaka/wanaka-airport-unlawful-lease-decision-overturned?fbclid=IwAR1vO2FwlOX1uIFiOHMHENRBcl6PilSrhFyhGPLDSNemN_IMWQInDolryZ4

I guess this means that the prospect of jet services into Wanaka is now remote. I think that Christchurch Airport will be popping the champagne and looking to their plans for an airport at Tarras.


That airport will never happen. There is significant community opposition and given environmental concerns re another airport for jet aircraft; it’s just the wrong time.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:30 am

 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:39 am

NZ801 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/wanaka/wanaka-airport-unlawful-lease-decision-overturned?fbclid=IwAR1vO2FwlOX1uIFiOHMHENRBcl6PilSrhFyhGPLDSNemN_IMWQInDolryZ4

I guess this means that the prospect of jet services into Wanaka is now remote. I think that Christchurch Airport will be popping the champagne and looking to their plans for an airport at Tarras.


That airport will never happen. There is significant community opposition and given environmental concerns re another airport for jet aircraft; it’s just the wrong time.

Not so sure it is a non-starter. ZQN has many constraints and is arguably in the wrong place. A single airport serving ZQN and WKA might well be an attractive option for both communities, local opposition notwithstanding. You can also see QAC fighting tooth and nail to protect its turf. Maybe they could be manouevred into taking a shareholding in Tarras and selling ZQN and WKA for other uses.

That's not to say I support it - in the "climate change emergency" we should really be looking to cut back air travel - I'm highly conflicted and fundamentally hypocritical in my own behaviour.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:49 am

DavidByrne wrote:
That's not to say I support it - in the "climate change emergency" we should really be looking to cut back air travel - I'm highly conflicted and fundamentally hypocritical in my own behaviour.


It’s ironic how much we actually support the “climate change emergency” in New Zealand.

Covid-19 could of been an major reason for us to have stuck with Zoom, for business meetings. But look at it we are already back to 90% of pre-covid business traffic.

I think an whole we an bunch of people that enjoy connecting face to face (even the introverted). Compared to allot of countries out there.

I know I’m already planning to head to Australia in the next week for bussiness meetings. You just can’t do the same over zoom, I find us New Zealanders put allot into reading body language which can only really be done in person.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:34 am

zkncj wrote:
It’s ironic how much we actually support the “climate change emergency” in New Zealand.

Covid-19 could of been an major reason for us to have stuck with Zoom, for business meetings. But look at it we are already back to 90% of pre-covid business traffic.

I think an whole we an bunch of people that enjoy connecting face to face (even the introverted). Compared to allot of countries out there.

I know I’m already planning to head to Australia in the next week for bussiness meetings. You just can’t do the same over zoom, I find us New Zealanders put allot into reading body language which can only really be done in person.

I think you've rather missing the point here. Yes, human nature being what it is, many of us (myself included) are in denial about the impact of the behavioral changes required. However, given what we face change will be forced on us, whether we like it or not. What that will mean for international air travel remains to be seen. Perhaps we will look back on 2019 as being "peak travel". As I said, I'm hugely conflicted, but maybe Covid has taught us that we CAN do without.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:14 am

I think it was always going to be WA that let the bubble deflate first, they were always the most cautious of the states and it took all of 4 days. Let us hope that it returns quickly. If it does extend, then it risks being left out in the cold completely.

Humans in general not just kiwis are designed for human interaction and physical contact and reading subtle body language cues face to face, Zoom is like reading a book with half the pages missing, it tells half the story, but the detail is missing and more importantly, the camaraderie and conversations off-screen and ability to bond outside of office hours/meetings are often what seals the deal.

With Covid, the value of air transport (and sea too) has been proven far greater than the sum of the emissions. You note the same people bleating doomsday warnings about carbon emergencies and stopping flying are the same people who are spreading doom about covid and want permanent lockdowns and dependency on the state to micromanage every aspect of our lives in return for an increasing cut of our incomes and loss of liberty - this is no coincidence.

Literally without aeroplanes flying through this pandemic the world would have left thousands if not millions/billions more without the fundamentals of life. Food, Goods, Masks, Medication, and vaccines you name it...Shortsighted ideological emission reductions to hit an imaginary line in the sand before we have developed the technical capability within aviation to do so could have catastrophic implications (in some cases more than the projected climate impact on that particular country) for many countries that import all their food, medication, and more. That isn't to say we shouldn't manage our sustainability better and utilize new technologies as they become available, just that there are always other survival factors to weigh up. As we will always need air transport, we may as well ensure the flights we do operate are full, not flying ghostships as they have been.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:46 am

aerorobnz wrote:
With Covid, the value of air transport (and sea too) has been proven far greater than the sum of the emissions. You note the same people bleating doomsday warnings about carbon emergencies and stopping flying are the same people who are spreading doom about covid and want permanent lockdowns and dependency on the state to micromanage every aspect of our lives in return for an increasing cut of our incomes and loss of liberty - this is no coincidence.

If this is aimed at me, I think you're way off the mark. Re covid, I do recall being labelled a doom merchant early in the pandemic for suggesting air travel would not return to normal in a few months - and unfortunately I was right. Re aviation and climate change: I venture to suggest that we WILL inevitably have to reduce flying, sooner or later, if we're to meet our international obligations and we're kidding ourselves if we think otherwise.

Nothing is black and white, and our economies will adapt - and no one is suggesting a loss of liberty or permanent lockdowns. And as for wanting to micromanage people's lives - I've no idea where that comes from. NZ as a carrier will survive these challenges and thrive - but it may not be the same as it was (though as an avgeek that really pains me). None of this gives me pleasure and I'm completely hypocritical because I don't plan to give up flying myself any time soon. But I think it's healthy not to get carried away with the euphoria of "normality" while NZ and the rest of the aviation industry face future challenges that we haven't even scratched the surface of addressing.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:25 pm

From this Sunday SkyBus from AKL, is dropping the Mount Eden road stops becoming an non-stop service into the City.
https://www.skybus.co.nz/auckland-city-express/quick-is-getting-quicker

Bit of an lose from the inner Auckland suburbs, wasn’t un common to see people get on/off on Mount Eden Road.
 
zkeoj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:36 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
With Covid, the value of air transport (and sea too) has been proven far greater than the sum of the emissions. You note the same people bleating doomsday warnings about carbon emergencies and stopping flying are the same people who are spreading doom about covid and want permanent lockdowns and dependency on the state to micromanage every aspect of our lives in return for an increasing cut of our incomes and loss of liberty - this is no coincidence.

If this is aimed at me, I think you're way off the mark. Re covid, I do recall being labelled a doom merchant early in the pandemic for suggesting air travel would not return to normal in a few months - and unfortunately I was right. Re aviation and climate change: I venture to suggest that we WILL inevitably have to reduce flying, sooner or later, if we're to meet our international obligations and we're kidding ourselves if we think otherwise.

Nothing is black and white, and our economies will adapt - and no one is suggesting a loss of liberty or permanent lockdowns. And as for wanting to micromanage people's lives - I've no idea where that comes from. NZ as a carrier will survive these challenges and thrive - but it may not be the same as it was (though as an avgeek that really pains me). None of this gives me pleasure and I'm completely hypocritical because I don't plan to give up flying myself any time soon. But I think it's healthy not to get carried away with the euphoria of "normality" while NZ and the rest of the aviation industry face future challenges that we haven't even scratched the surface of addressing.


I couldn't agree more, David, on all accounts. The only slight difference is that, while I won't give up flying, I will drastically reduce my flying. Partly, because my business trips have dried up 100% (we have a total stop, and it will be like that for some time to come), but also because I see the need to reduce emissions, so my private flying will be much less as well (about 50% of my pre-COVID-19 flying was private). I won't totally stop, and hide in a burrow and become a modern hippie, but I will reduce drastically.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:31 am

NZ801 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/wanaka/wanaka-airport-unlawful-lease-decision-overturned?fbclid=IwAR1vO2FwlOX1uIFiOHMHENRBcl6PilSrhFyhGPLDSNemN_IMWQInDolryZ4

I guess this means that the prospect of jet services into Wanaka is now remote. I think that Christchurch Airport will be popping the champagne and looking to their plans for an airport at Tarras.


That airport will never happen. There is significant community opposition and given environmental concerns re another airport for jet aircraft; it’s just the wrong time.


There's opposition to almost everything these days. it'll no doubt be a long drawn out process but I don't think you can write it off yet.

WKA doesn't want it, ZQN is simply too small for long term growth that will occur post COVID. (rightly or wrongly). The only other option is IVC but that's over 2 hours drive - double that of Tarras in time and a 100 extra km's.

The region wants the extra revenue brought in by larger business/tourist numbers but no one wants the airport in their backyard.

Something will have to give somewhere.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:52 am

zkncj wrote:
Covid-19 could of been an major reason for us to have stuck with Zoom, for business meetings. But look at it we are already back to 90% of pre-covid business traffic.


Wasn't it DavidByrne why suggested business travel would die with COVID? Zoom meetings would replace the need to travel etc?

I think there'll be some long lasting changes from COVID such as a better working from / office balance but we will still travel just as much as we did before. Some business may shrink their spend while others will grow but overall in 5 years I expect your cooperate travel providers to be back in full swing.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:56 am

zkncj wrote:
From this Sunday SkyBus from AKL, is dropping the Mount Eden road stops becoming an non-stop service into the City.
https://www.skybus.co.nz/auckland-city-express/quick-is-getting-quicker

Bit of an lose from the inner Auckland suburbs, wasn’t un common to see people get on/off on Mount Eden Road.


Good. It's an airport service and should be as direct as possible. I took it once and it stopped several times on Mt Eden Road. I've used the same company in MEL and it was express non-stop.

If there's a need maybe a single stop somewhere mid trip could do, Three Kings shops would be a good starting point for example. But I don't want to pay a premium for what's essentially a commuter service along Mt Eden Road.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:15 am

NZ6 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
From this Sunday SkyBus from AKL, is dropping the Mount Eden road stops becoming an non-stop service into the City.
https://www.skybus.co.nz/auckland-city-express/quick-is-getting-quicker

Bit of an lose from the inner Auckland suburbs, wasn’t un common to see people get on/off on Mount Eden Road.


Good. It's an airport service and should be as direct as possible. I took it once and it stopped several times on Mt Eden Road. I've used the same company in MEL and it was express non-stop.

If there's a need maybe a single stop somewhere mid trip could do, Three Kings shops would be a good starting point for example. But I don't want to pay a premium for what's essentially a commuter service along Mt Eden Road.


Hopefully it finally opens up the chance for AT to open an CBD to Airport route via with Mt Eden or Dom Road now that SkyBus has vacated the route.... and non SkyBus prices. Extending an 27T service into the airport every 20-30 minutes would probably do pretty well.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1957
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:37 am

NZ6 wrote:
Wasn't it DavidByrne why suggested business travel would die with COVID? Zoom meetings would replace the need to travel etc.

I've just been looking back through March 2020 posts (REALLY hard to find stuff) to see what was said then and how it reads in the context of today. There's actually very little I wrote then that would embarrass me today. In fact in some respects I was too optimistic then.

Alas I couldn't find a post directly referencing Zoom and business travel - I was curious in light of your comment to see what I had actually said. But I'm sure I wouldn't have said anything as black-and-white as business travel dying. Of course it hasn't and of course it won't. My recollection is that I predicted business would find that it could save money longer term by meeting via Zoom, and that demand for business travel would be lower post-pandemic. I still think that will be the case.

Referencing zk-ncj's earlier post re the recovery of business traffic, my understanding is that it's domestic leisure and tourism traffic that's now up to 90% of pre-Covid levels, and that business travel is still a long way away from that. Happy to be corrected, though.
 
NPL8800
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:00 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:45 am

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Wasn't it DavidByrne why suggested business travel would die with COVID? Zoom meetings would replace the need to travel etc.

I've just been looking back through March 2020 posts (REALLY hard to find stuff) to see what was said then and how it reads in the context of today. There's actually very little I wrote then that would embarrass me today. In fact in some respects I was too optimistic then.

Alas I couldn't find a post directly referencing Zoom and business travel - I was curious in light of your comment to see what I had actually said. But I'm sure I wouldn't have said anything as black-and-white as business travel dying. Of course it hasn't and of course it won't. My recollection is that I predicted business would find that it could save money longer term by meeting via Zoom, and that demand for business travel would be lower post-pandemic. I still think that will be the case.

Referencing zk-ncj's earlier post re the recovery of business traffic, my understanding is that it's domestic leisure and tourism traffic that's now up to 90% of pre-Covid levels, and that business travel is still a long way away from that. Happy to be corrected, though.


My guess is that this is the reference that zkncj was referring too regarding the rebound in business travel to 90%

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industri ... bal-trends
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1957
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:46 am

NPL8800 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Referencing zk-ncj's earlier post re the recovery of business traffic, my understanding is that it's domestic leisure and tourism traffic that's now up to 90% of pre-Covid levels, and that business travel is still a long way away from that. Happy to be corrected, though.


My guess is that this is the reference that zkncj was referring too regarding the rebound in business travel to 90%

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industri ... bal-trends

Cheers, thanks for that. Let's hope that TransTasman traffic bounces back as quickly.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:48 am

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Wasn't it DavidByrne why suggested business travel would die with COVID? Zoom meetings would replace the need to travel etc.

I've just been looking back through March 2020 posts (REALLY hard to find stuff) to see what was said then and how it reads in the context of today. There's actually very little I wrote then that would embarrass me today. In fact in some respects I was too optimistic then.

Alas I couldn't find a post directly referencing Zoom and business travel - I was curious in light of your comment to see what I had actually said. But I'm sure I wouldn't have said anything as black-and-white as business travel dying. Of course it hasn't and of course it won't. My recollection is that I predicted business would find that it could save money longer term by meeting via Zoom, and that demand for business travel would be lower post-pandemic. I still think that will be the case.

Referencing zk-ncj's earlier post re the recovery of business traffic, my understanding is that it's domestic leisure and tourism traffic that's now up to 90% of pre-Covid levels, and that business travel is still a long way away from that. Happy to be corrected, though.


Wasn't having a go - don't take it the wrong way. A lot of what you predicted turned out correct and many a CEO got it wrong or under estimated the full impact of COVID during the early days.

I just don't think we'll see a complete change in the way we travel as a long term result.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1957
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:47 am

NZ6 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Wasn't it DavidByrne why suggested business travel would die with COVID? Zoom meetings would replace the need to travel etc.

I've just been looking back through March 2020 posts (REALLY hard to find stuff) to see what was said then and how it reads in the context of today. There's actually very little I wrote then that would embarrass me today. In fact in some respects I was too optimistic then.

Alas I couldn't find a post directly referencing Zoom and business travel - I was curious in light of your comment to see what I had actually said. But I'm sure I wouldn't have said anything as black-and-white as business travel dying. Of course it hasn't and of course it won't. My recollection is that I predicted business would find that it could save money longer term by meeting via Zoom, and that demand for business travel would be lower post-pandemic. I still think that will be the case.

Referencing zk-ncj's earlier post re the recovery of business traffic, my understanding is that it's domestic leisure and tourism traffic that's now up to 90% of pre-Covid levels, and that business travel is still a long way away from that. Happy to be corrected, though.


Wasn't having a go - don't take it the wrong way. A lot of what you predicted turned out correct and many a CEO got it wrong or under estimated the full impact of COVID during the early days.

I just don't think we'll see a complete change in the way we travel as a long term result.

All good!
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1957
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:01 am

NZ6 wrote:
Many a CEO got it wrong or under estimated the full impact of COVID during the early days.

Just to comment further on this - I think we should always take what CEOs say about their airline with a dollop of salt. They see it as their role to talk things up, and to express any kind of negative prognosis is frowned on by shareholders as it potentially impacts the share price. Of course they have to avoid giving incorrect information to the markets, but where it's a matter of expressing opinions, they're almost always optimistic, no matter what.
 
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zkojq
Posts: 4743
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:05 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
Wait until you learn what Niue’s population is though...

V/F


To my credit, I did know that one. :D

You note the same people bleating doomsday warnings about carbon emergencies and stopping flying are the same people who are spreading doom about covid and want permanent lockdowns


Noone - literally noone - wants permanent lockdowns and I don't see the value of pretending that people do.

Literally without aeroplanes flying through this pandemic the world would have left thousands if not millions/billions more without the fundamentals of life. Food, Goods, Masks, Medication, and vaccines you name it...


I hate to point it out, but without airplanes, covid would have largely been a central China problem, not a worldwide crisis.

zkncj wrote:
From this Sunday SkyBus from AKL, is dropping the Mount Eden road stops becoming an non-stop service into the City.
https://www.skybus.co.nz/auckland-city-express/quick-is-getting-quicker

Bit of an lose from the inner Auckland suburbs, wasn’t un common to see people get on/off on Mount Eden Road.


Also a lot of crew uses it for their commutes.

Anyway I'm in favour of making it nonstop. There's not much worse than being forced to look at the dreary Central Isthmus suburbs at half past six on a rainy morning. The less time spent there the better. It's rare that I use the skybus at the best of times, but for the past year the North Shore service has been canceled and this highlighted to me on a couple of trips just how slow the CBD to Airport service is. There really does need to be separate commuter services between the Airport and MtEden/Dominion roads. The 380 being the single bus service to the airport is crazy.


NZ6 wrote:
The region wants the extra revenue brought in by larger business/tourist numbers but no one wants the airport in their backyard.

Something will have to give somewhere.


:checkmark:

Not agreeing nor disagreeing with anyone specifically, but what was the most recent commercial airport in New Zealand to be built/open?
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8435
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:08 am

DavidByrne wrote:
If this is aimed at me, I think you're way off the mark..

It wasn't meant as an attack on you directly, apologies if that was the perception
While your current post regarding your personal conundrum over flights vs emissions prompted my thoughts on the matter, I wasn't referring specifically to previous posts by you or anyone else on this forum as the source of my frustrations, but those in govt who are happy to take away the freedom of movement for everyone against their will solely for the sake of the emissions.
With no land borders and the distances over dangerous seas involved, that basically would turn NZ into a larger Alcatraz. Anyone should also be free to not travel if that is your choice not to fly for the sake of CO2. If that individual right to choose cannot be maintained then the reductive goals of the Paris accord are a step too far, especially if the long-range enviro-tech transportation is not even in final development yet.
Say NZ or any country even proposes to restrict the free movement of their citizens permanently but Australia or other nations who don't, then it would create demand to leave to live in a country where they are treated better. If New Zealand chooses to not compete with other nations for citizens, tourists and international investment, the only people disadvantaged are us.
If that eventuality happens here, I will be one of those who seek new uninhibited horizons. All countries will never have identical rules because they all have different beliefs and priorities. You already see this with taxation where some are 0% and others are 65%,

So anyway, to more positive news, Perth maintains a departure tomorrow (but not a passenger arrival back) and the flight back remains a 'green' flight within the bubble for the crew. The day after it is 24h delayed. Let us hope this remains the case for the sake of everyone who wants to travel. to WA for work, recreation, or family reasons.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1957
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:31 am

zkojq wrote:
The 380 being the single bus service to the airport is crazy.

A small change, but the 380 is no more. There are now two services which have replaced it - the Airport Link (all-electric) to Papatoetoe Station (eventually Puhinui when the interchange there is completed) and Manukau (in future to be extended to Botany) and the 38 from Onehunga via Mangere Town Centre. Both operate at a maximum of 15 min headway. There are also plans to operate a service from New Lynn to the airport, though this seems to have been put on the back burner, possibly because if Covid-19.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1957
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:42 am

aerorobnz wrote:
Say NZ or any country even proposes to restrict the free movement of their citizens permanently but Australia or other nations who don't, then it would create demand to leave to live in a country where they are treated better. If New Zealand chooses to not compete with other nations for citizens, tourists and international investment, the only people disadvantaged are us.

Cheers, appreciate your clarification.

Re permanent restrictions on freedom of movement : I don't think any nation, none at all (perhaps excluding North Korea) does that. Ironically, Australia, with its $68,000 fine, come closest as a temporary (Covid) expedient. But there's no suggestion that NZ would ever consider that, and I'm quite unclear of the basis of your concern.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4631
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:03 am

NZ6 wrote:
NZ801 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/wanaka/wanaka-airport-unlawful-lease-decision-overturned?fbclid=IwAR1vO2FwlOX1uIFiOHMHENRBcl6PilSrhFyhGPLDSNemN_IMWQInDolryZ4

I guess this means that the prospect of jet services into Wanaka is now remote. I think that Christchurch Airport will be popping the champagne and looking to their plans for an airport at Tarras.


That airport will never happen. There is significant community opposition and given environmental concerns re another airport for jet aircraft; it’s just the wrong time.


There's opposition to almost everything these days. it'll no doubt be a long drawn out process but I don't think you can write it off yet.

WKA doesn't want it, ZQN is simply too small for long term growth that will occur post COVID. (rightly or wrongly). The only other option is IVC but that's over 2 hours drive - double that of Tarras in time and a 100 extra km's.

The region wants the extra revenue brought in by larger business/tourist numbers but no one wants the airport in their backyard.

Something will have to give somewhere.

I think Tarras would be good. However I think there are a few more levers that can pulled at ZQN...

1) They can build a parallel taxiway to avoid backtracking and blocking the runway.
2) They can extend the runway (western end by building over the road, eastern end by building out over the embankment. Neither will be cheap but compared to a new airport etc not bad.
3) They can extend the apron area and remove the cross runway if needed.

These measures should allow both more planes and larger planes (A321) to operate with full loads etc.

WKA could still happen but will be a big fight.
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 4743
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:48 am

DavidByrne wrote:
zkojq wrote:
The 380 being the single bus service to the airport is crazy.

A small change, but the 380 is no more. There are now two services which have replaced it - the Airport Link (all-electric) to Papatoetoe Station (eventually Puhinui when the interchange there is completed) and Manukau (in future to be extended to Botany) and the 38 from Onehunga via Mangere Town Centre. Both operate at a maximum of 15 min headway.


Wasn't aware of this. It's not much different but separating it out into two routes is very good for making the service more reliable/punctual. Long bus routes are always hopeless in terms of how a delay on one end can accumulate and accumulate, making ETAs very unpredictable for people getting on further down the line. Not good for making Public Transport attractive for those who don't use it.

Zkpilot wrote:
However I think there are a few more levers that can pulled at ZQN...

1) They can build a parallel taxiway to avoid backtracking and blocking the runway.


Is there still enough space for that? IMO that's the obvious (and simple) solution but I thought that too much land had been sold/developed for that to be possible. IMO letting that new shopping center (just to the east of the terminal/cross runway) get built in its current location was a bad bit of strategic planning. Will constrain the airport a lot in the future.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:55 am

Zkpilot wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
NZ801 wrote:

That airport will never happen. There is significant community opposition and given environmental concerns re another airport for jet aircraft; it’s just the wrong time.


There's opposition to almost everything these days. it'll no doubt be a long drawn out process but I don't think you can write it off yet.

WKA doesn't want it, ZQN is simply too small for long term growth that will occur post COVID. (rightly or wrongly). The only other option is IVC but that's over 2 hours drive - double that of Tarras in time and a 100 extra km's.

The region wants the extra revenue brought in by larger business/tourist numbers but no one wants the airport in their backyard.

Something will have to give somewhere.

I think Tarras would be good. However I think there are a few more levers that can pulled at ZQN...

1) They can build a parallel taxiway to avoid backtracking and blocking the runway.
2) They can extend the runway (western end by building over the road, eastern end by building out over the embankment. Neither will be cheap but compared to a new airport etc not bad.
3) They can extend the apron area and remove the cross runway if needed.

These measures should allow both more planes and larger planes (A321) to operate with full loads etc.

WKA could still happen but will be a big fight.


I think all of those things are in ZQN's 30 year plan aren't they? - or at least discussed in the document.
https://www.queenstownairport.co.nz/ass ... ptions.pdf

I believe CIAL can see like everyone else, ZQN will still reach capacity and as China grows there'll likely be demand to bring in wealthy Chinese tourist in direct. With all honestly, they want a slice of that pie and building something less disruptive that services ZQN will only provide a win/win solution all round.

I suspect as ZQN gets busier the noise debate will come into question a lot more. Just compare 1995 to 2019 as the increase is insane.

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