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DavidByrne
Posts: 1957
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:57 am

NZ6 wrote:
I believe CIAL can see like everyone else, ZQN will still reach capacity and as China grows there'll likely be demand to bring in wealthy Chinese tourist in direct. With all honestly, they want a slice of that pie and building something less disruptive that services ZQN will only provide a win/win solution all round.

I suspect as ZQN gets busier the noise debate will come into question a lot more. Just compare 1995 to 2019 as the increase is insane.

The QAC document is very specific - runway extensions at ZQN are NOT going to happen. This means that any larger aircraft will have to operate from elsewhere - and WKA looks increasingly problematic. That adds weight to the idea of Tarras as a solution IMO.

Of course it's all going to be dependent on ongoing and significant growth in tourism in the region. Leaving aside impacts from any covid legacy or climate change restrictions, Queenstown itself is IMO already becoming an increasingly unpleasant place as it becomes touristed out. That's where other destinations in the region may score - such as Te Anau, Wanaka and Hawea. But I'd hate to see those destinations become like the Queenstown of today. How far can this growth go? How far should it go? QAC is projecting 7.1m pax movements a year by 2045 - that's 10,000 new arrivals a day. Is this realistic and/or good for New Zealand?
 
zkncj
Posts: 4370
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:55 am

DavidByrne wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
Say NZ or any country even proposes to restrict the free movement of their citizens permanently but Australia or other nations who don't, then it would create demand to leave to live in a country where they are treated better. If New Zealand chooses to not compete with other nations for citizens, tourists and international investment, the only people disadvantaged are us.

Cheers, appreciate your clarification.

Re permanent restrictions on freedom of movement : I don't think any nation, none at all (perhaps excluding North Korea) does that. Ironically, Australia, with its $68,000 fine, come closest as a temporary (Covid) expedient. But there's no suggestion that NZ would ever consider that, and I'm quite unclear of the basis of your concern.


Well there was Eastern Germany and more namely East Berlin, which was only just over 30 years since the wall came down.

Seems to have been an bit of media coverage over the weekend, about Australian using New Zealand as a loop hole. Despite the new law changes, will be interesting to watch this week to see if any more action is taken?
 
NZ516
Posts: 819
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:41 pm

NZ6 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

There's opposition to almost everything these days. it'll no doubt be a long drawn out process but I don't think you can write it off yet.

WKA doesn't want it, ZQN is simply too small for long term growth that will occur post COVID. (rightly or wrongly). The only other option is IVC but that's over 2 hours drive - double that of Tarras in time and a 100 extra km's.

The region wants the extra revenue brought in by larger business/tourist numbers but no one wants the airport in their backyard.

Something will have to give somewhere.

I think Tarras would be good. However I think there are a few more levers that can pulled at ZQN...

1) They can build a parallel taxiway to avoid backtracking and blocking the runway.
2) They can extend the runway (western end by building over the road, eastern end by building out over the embankment. Neither will be cheap but compared to a new airport etc not bad.
3) They can extend the apron area and remove the cross runway if needed.

These measures should allow both more planes and larger planes (A321) to operate with full loads etc.

WKA could still happen but will be a big fight.


I think all of those things are in ZQN's 30 year plan aren't they? - or at least discussed in the document.
https://www.queenstownairport.co.nz/ass ... ptions.pdf

I believe CIAL can see like everyone else, ZQN will still reach capacity and as China grows there'll likely be demand to bring in wealthy Chinese tourist in direct. With all honestly, they want a slice of that pie and building something less disruptive that services ZQN will only provide a win/win solution all round.

I suspect as ZQN gets busier the noise debate will come into question a lot more. Just compare 1995 to 2019 as the increase is insane.


That ZQN masterplan makes good reading. In the summary they will plan to progress on a new Taxiway which will be a huge benefit to the existing operators and reduce delays considerably. Terminal expansion options look interesting with 3 different proposals. They have ruled out extending the runway. Also a long distanced airport away from ZQN won't work due to transport problems and noise issues.
 
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Zkpilot
Posts: 4631
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:27 am

NZ6 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

There's opposition to almost everything these days. it'll no doubt be a long drawn out process but I don't think you can write it off yet.

WKA doesn't want it, ZQN is simply too small for long term growth that will occur post COVID. (rightly or wrongly). The only other option is IVC but that's over 2 hours drive - double that of Tarras in time and a 100 extra km's.

The region wants the extra revenue brought in by larger business/tourist numbers but no one wants the airport in their backyard.

Something will have to give somewhere.

I think Tarras would be good. However I think there are a few more levers that can pulled at ZQN...

1) They can build a parallel taxiway to avoid backtracking and blocking the runway.
2) They can extend the runway (western end by building over the road, eastern end by building out over the embankment. Neither will be cheap but compared to a new airport etc not bad.
3) They can extend the apron area and remove the cross runway if needed.

These measures should allow both more planes and larger planes (A321) to operate with full loads etc.

WKA could still happen but will be a big fight.


I think all of those things are in ZQN's 30 year plan aren't they? - or at least discussed in the document.
https://www.queenstownairport.co.nz/ass ... ptions.pdf

I believe CIAL can see like everyone else, ZQN will still reach capacity and as China grows there'll likely be demand to bring in wealthy Chinese tourist in direct. With all honestly, they want a slice of that pie and building something less disruptive that services ZQN will only provide a win/win solution all round.

I suspect as ZQN gets busier the noise debate will come into question a lot more. Just compare 1995 to 2019 as the increase is insane.

Don’t think there’s ever going to be a need for long haul flights/wide body aircraft (day to day). A321 or similar will be fine for decades to come provided they can operate with a full load both domestically and across the Tasman. Other international traffic can go via AKL or CHC with easy and quick connections.
 
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LamboAston
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:46 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:11 am

Zkpilot wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
NZ801 wrote:

That airport will never happen. There is significant community opposition and given environmental concerns re another airport for jet aircraft; it’s just the wrong time.


There's opposition to almost everything these days. it'll no doubt be a long drawn out process but I don't think you can write it off yet.

WKA doesn't want it, ZQN is simply too small for long term growth that will occur post COVID. (rightly or wrongly). The only other option is IVC but that's over 2 hours drive - double that of Tarras in time and a 100 extra km's.

The region wants the extra revenue brought in by larger business/tourist numbers but no one wants the airport in their backyard.

Something will have to give somewhere.

I think Tarras would be good. However I think there are a few more levers that can pulled at ZQN...

1) They can build a parallel taxiway to avoid backtracking and blocking the runway.
2) They can extend the runway (western end by building over the road, eastern end by building out over the embankment. Neither will be cheap but compared to a new airport etc not bad.
3) They can extend the apron area and remove the cross runway if needed.

These measures should allow both more planes and larger planes (A321) to operate with full loads etc.

WKA could still happen but will be a big fight.

Pre covid, they were at their consented capacity noise wise, and their application to increase it had been rejected overwhelmingly by locals.
 
A350OZ
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:20 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:47 am

Sorry for my ignorance, but are A321s operating into ZQN weight-restricted? If so, assume that’s due to limited runway length? Could an A321 operate to AU east coast?

Thanks in advance.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4370
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:11 am

A350OZ wrote:
Sorry for my ignorance, but are A321s operating into ZQN weight-restricted? If so, assume that’s due to limited runway length? Could an A321 operate to AU east coast?

Thanks in advance.


I would say there would be an high chance of them departing ZQN with an weight restriction ex ZQN. They could arrive into ZQN from Australia fine.

If there are strong head winds on the Tasman, a320 sometime have to stop via IVC to pickup more fuel before going onto Australia.

It’s not just the runway length, but also the mountain ranges surrounding the airport.

I’ve done an few a321NEO departs domestically in the last few months, and the takeoff has definitely been slightly more of an theme park ride than the a320.

I’ve found the a321NEO needs to do an longer rev up at the run of the runway before they take the breaks off.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8106
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:56 am

zkncj wrote:
A350OZ wrote:
Sorry for my ignorance, but are A321s operating into ZQN weight-restricted? If so, assume that’s due to limited runway length? Could an A321 operate to AU east coast?

Thanks in advance.


I would say there would be an high chance of them departing ZQN with an weight restriction ex ZQN. They could arrive into ZQN from Australia fine.

If there are strong head winds on the Tasman, a320 sometime have to stop via IVC to pickup more fuel before going onto Australia.

It’s not just the runway length, but also the mountain ranges surrounding the airport.

I’ve done an few a321NEO departs domestically in the last few months, and the takeoff has definitely been slightly more of an theme park ride than the a320.

I’ve found the a321NEO needs to do an longer rev up at the run of the runway before they take the breaks off.


A320 via IVC? First time i have head that.

You would have to think with the growth in the ZQN area that something major needs to be done? They did only open to night flying in the last 3-4 years to increase capacity.

I havn't really followed what is going on there but with the mountains is it even a viable option to extend the runway? So can an A321 do ZQN-SYD/MEL/BNE with a viable load now?
 
NZ6
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:33 am

Zkpilot wrote:
Don’t think there’s ever going to be a need for long haul flights/wide body aircraft (day to day). A321 or similar will be fine for decades to come provided they can operate with a full load both domestically and across the Tasman. Other international traffic can go via AKL or CHC with easy and quick connections.


Not talking domestic or short haul, you can't see any Japanese/Chinese direct flights IF there was a runway of length in 10-20 years time?
 
NZ516
Posts: 819
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:45 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:
A350OZ wrote:
Sorry for my ignorance, but are A321s operating into ZQN weight-restricted? If so, assume that’s due to limited runway length? Could an A321 operate to AU east coast?

Thanks in advance.


I would say there would be an high chance of them departing ZQN with an weight restriction ex ZQN. They could arrive into ZQN from Australia fine.

If there are strong head winds on the Tasman, a320 sometime have to stop via IVC to pickup more fuel before going onto Australia.

It’s not just the runway length, but also the mountain ranges surrounding the airport.

I’ve done an few a321NEO departs domestically in the last few months, and the takeoff has definitely been slightly more of an theme park ride than the a320.

I’ve found the a321NEO needs to do an longer rev up at the run of the runway before they take the breaks off.


A320 via IVC? First time i have head that.

You would have to think with the growth in the ZQN area that something major needs to be done? They did only open to night flying in the last 3-4 years to increase capacity.

I havn't really followed what is going on there but with the mountains is it even a viable option to extend the runway? So can an A321 do ZQN-SYD/MEL/BNE with a viable load now?


IVC tech stop. There was a time that the 320 needed to top up on fuel before going to Australia. Here is a story from a few years back.
http://i.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/69 ... t-for-fuel
 
 
NZ321
Posts: 1439
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:27 pm

NZ516 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
I think Tarras would be good. However I think there are a few more levers that can pulled at ZQN...

1) They can build a parallel taxiway to avoid backtracking and blocking the runway.
2) They can extend the runway (western end by building over the road, eastern end by building out over the embankment. Neither will be cheap but compared to a new airport etc not bad.
3) They can extend the apron area and remove the cross runway if needed.

These measures should allow both more planes and larger planes (A321) to operate with full loads etc.

WKA could still happen but will be a big fight.


I think all of those things are in ZQN's 30 year plan aren't they? - or at least discussed in the document.
https://www.queenstownairport.co.nz/ass ... ptions.pdf

I believe CIAL can see like everyone else, ZQN will still reach capacity and as China grows there'll likely be demand to bring in wealthy Chinese tourist in direct. With all honestly, they want a slice of that pie and building something less disruptive that services ZQN will only provide a win/win solution all round.

I suspect as ZQN gets busier the noise debate will come into question a lot more. Just compare 1995 to 2019 as the increase is insane.


That ZQN masterplan makes good reading. In the summary they will plan to progress on a new Taxiway which will be a huge benefit to the existing operators and reduce delays considerably. Terminal expansion options look interesting with 3 different proposals. They have ruled out extending the runway. Also a long distanced airport away from ZQN won't work due to transport problems and noise issues.


Personally, which ever way you drive, the drive to Queenstown is very much a feast for the eyes. Flying, likewise. But if we have big jets flying in regularly - IMHO it will ruin the very thing that we appreciate Queenstown for, and the scale of demand will start to erode the experience. Given Australian tourists now have regular direct flights from at least 3 cities, I'd suggest we leave it at that if we want to have an attraction that anybody wants to come and see in another 10 years.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:05 pm

American is not betting on New Zealand opening up anytime soon:
LAX-AKL resumes mid December
LAX-CHC and DFW-AKL resume early January 2022.
https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 8179108866
 
NZ516
Posts: 819
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:46 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
American is not betting on New Zealand opening up anytime soon:
LAX-AKL resumes mid December
LAX-CHC and DFW-AKL resume early January 2022.
https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 8179108866


At least we have firm dates for the return. Plus the CHC service which didn't start has a chance to come. Second time lucky hopefully.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8106
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:38 pm

NZ516 wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
American is not betting on New Zealand opening up anytime soon:
LAX-AKL resumes mid December
LAX-CHC and DFW-AKL resume early January 2022.
https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 8179108866


At least we have firm dates for the return. Plus the CHC service which didn't start has a chance to come. Second time lucky hopefully.


That seems pretty optimistic. They were seasonal anyway so October would have been the earliest, I just can’t see it until atleast late 2022.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:29 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
American is not betting on New Zealand opening up anytime soon:
LAX-AKL resumes mid December
LAX-CHC and DFW-AKL resume early January 2022.
https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 8179108866


At least we have firm dates for the return. Plus the CHC service which didn't start has a chance to come. Second time lucky hopefully.


That seems pretty optimistic. They were seasonal anyway so October would have been the earliest, I just can’t see it until atleast late 2022.


This made me chuckle. I don't think ANYONE is betting on NZ opening to the US anytime soon. Is that a surprise is it?
rjbesikof wrote:
American is not betting on New Zealand opening up anytime soon:


Let's just call it what it is, they're just continually sliding the restart date back. This is just the new best case date and all expectations are that it'll move again.

Although, hopefully the science on being vaccinated is positive, we keep to plan with our rollout and some movement may be possible? Enough for AA to restart flying - doubtful but fingers crossed.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8106
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:36 pm

What are we I think 2% of the population some in 2 or so months, looking like it will take about 8 years at this rate.

Anyway I’m sure things will pick up but I think it will be atleast late 2022 early 2023 before NZ opens fully to the US.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:11 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
What are we I think 2% of the population some in 2 or so months, looking like it will take about 8 years at this rate.

Anyway I’m sure things will pick up but I think it will be atleast late 2022 early 2023 before NZ opens fully to the US.


Are you talking about vaccinations?

I think the issue is around wastage and supply with nightmare logistics of it being nationwide and the requirement of 2 shots.

They can't give out first dose in mass incase they don't have supply for the second etc - if what we're told is the truth. Our supply ramps up from July meaning we can give out the first one with confidence a second will be available.

So the 2% should climb quickly. But I do still think it's been too slow even for the supply we have.

The UK is doing very well, the US has come a long way in 3 months since Jan - they'll be looking really good by the second half of the year so they'll be waiting on us I believe. Sadly there'll be a number of other countries that'll struggle for sometime. That's were the vaccine passports and restrictions will come into play.
 
NZ516
Posts: 819
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:18 pm

Here is some good news someone as bought Pacific Aerospace. Which will ensure that aircraft manufacturing can stay in NZ.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/12496209 ... dators-say
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8106
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:06 am

NZ6 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
What are we I think 2% of the population some in 2 or so months, looking like it will take about 8 years at this rate.

Anyway I’m sure things will pick up but I think it will be atleast late 2022 early 2023 before NZ opens fully to the US.


Are you talking about vaccinations?

I think the issue is around wastage and supply with nightmare logistics of it being nationwide and the requirement of 2 shots.

They can't give out first dose in mass incase they don't have supply for the second etc - if what we're told is the truth. Our supply ramps up from July meaning we can give out the first one with confidence a second will be available.

So the 2% should climb quickly. But I do still think it's been too slow even for the supply we have.

The UK is doing very well, the US has come a long way in 3 months since Jan - they'll be looking really good by the second half of the year so they'll be waiting on us I believe. Sadly there'll be a number of other countries that'll struggle for sometime. That's were the vaccine passports and restrictions will come into play.



I was talking vaccinations yes, was a bit of a cheap shot on my part, I haven’t really followed the reasons why it’s been slow but what you said makes sense, re wastage and second shots being available, still seems slow though.

India and many of the poorer countries are where there is a major problem now and it’s hard to see what will happen to improve anytime soon particularly India.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:34 am

Something to keep in mind with the vaccine rollout is that we have time on our side to do it thoroughly without dropping massive amounts of cash to spin up and spin down rapidly.

To use a bit more of an aviation analogy. We've got our health system that's pretty much operating as normal without having to deal with masses of covid cases. If we were to drop everything into getting everyone vaccinated yesterday then we would have to pull resources from normal day to day operations. So that'd be like running a normal scheduled airline service and then trying to handle a massive charter operation that absorbs not just planes but pilots, planning staff, managers, etc. Instead we can take our time to slot the vaccination alongside other BAU stuff like flu vaccinations. Requiring a much smaller increase in resources to be amortized over a longer period. So in the aviation analogy the charter operation is still to move the same number of people but it can be done over months instead of weeks. Avoiding the need to disrupt regular scheduled work.

Now is it super irritating to have the vaccine seemingly delayed while countries that messed around get it done quickly like the US? Oh hell yes it's irritating. But remember that we've got time to do this right. To make sure that the vaccine gets to those at highest risk first. To make sure we get buy in from communities who understandably do not trust the government or health system. To make sure that the vaccine we're using is the most effective and least risky.

And remember we're still ahead of most all non OECD nations. Yes we're at the back of the group of rich nations, but still well ahead of most.

Covid has impacted us all. Especially those with family and friends overseas that we had planned to visit. It's just as important we do this right the first time instead of trying to patch it later. Just like we do with airline safety.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:18 am

LamboAston wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

There's opposition to almost everything these days. it'll no doubt be a long drawn out process but I don't think you can write it off yet.

WKA doesn't want it, ZQN is simply too small for long term growth that will occur post COVID. (rightly or wrongly). The only other option is IVC but that's over 2 hours drive - double that of Tarras in time and a 100 extra km's.

The region wants the extra revenue brought in by larger business/tourist numbers but no one wants the airport in their backyard.

Something will have to give somewhere.

I think Tarras would be good. However I think there are a few more levers that can pulled at ZQN...

1) They can build a parallel taxiway to avoid backtracking and blocking the runway.
2) They can extend the runway (western end by building over the road, eastern end by building out over the embankment. Neither will be cheap but compared to a new airport etc not bad.
3) They can extend the apron area and remove the cross runway if needed.

These measures should allow both more planes and larger planes (A321) to operate with full loads etc.

WKA could still happen but will be a big fight.

Pre covid, they were at their consented capacity noise wise, and their application to increase it had been rejected overwhelmingly by locals.

Pretty sure they still had about 5 years of growth allowed for including noise and that’s not taking into account NEO which are a lot quieter than CEO. NZ would be fairly rapidly transitioning enough of its fleet to NEO to be able to operate ZQN exclusively with them. The main issue with ZQN is the lack of a taxiway beside the runway and gate/apron space (which can be rectified).
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:08 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
American is not betting on New Zealand opening up anytime soon:
LAX-AKL resumes mid December
LAX-CHC and DFW-AKL resume early January 2022.
https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 8179108866


Not a chance I reckon. Just back on the radar. Maybe a service into AKL this summer. But it wouldn't surprise me if the whole thing is postponed until NZ summer 2022/23, or shelved altogether.
 
NZ801
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:46 am

Small plane crash at CHC this arvo. Landed just short of the runway intersection which was fortuitous. QF A333 diverted to WLG.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/30 ... ch-airport
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:19 pm

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industri ... ected-reps

I think the Christchurch city council will vote against the proposal and the Tarras airport plan will be dropped eventually.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:34 pm

NZ801 wrote:
Small plane crash at CHC this arvo. Landed just short of the runway intersection which was fortuitous. QF A333 diverted to WLG.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/30 ... ch-airport


That is the second crash in two days the other one was in Glentui.


https://i.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/30 ... to-paddock
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:37 pm

It is not looking good for International flights returning to Dunedin soon.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/inte ... in-airport
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 1:07 am

NZ516 wrote:
It is not looking good for International flights returning to Dunedin soon.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/inte ... in-airport


I don’t think that is a surprise. NZ flying it? I can’t see that, QF/JQ doubtful
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 5:54 am

DUD is likely not a priority for any airline. I think when you compare other cities of the same size globally the cities that do have international services are seasonal/tourist markets like CNS/BGI or business centres/capital cities like LUX, and those which are neither are remote, like DRW. There are plenty of larger and more significant cities than Dunedin without international services.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 6:41 am

The biggest issue with DUD International (and any other smaller regional port in New Zealand).

It’s realistically now one has an 100 seater in there fleet that could do it, back when NZ/SJ had an 136 seat 737s these routes would of had chance.

How PMR,DUD,HLZ,ROT all managed to have International services at one point.

With QQ get into e190s that are being wet leased, maybe we could see someone doing an deal with QQ later on to service DUD.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1957
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 6:57 am

Interesting though that the trend globally is now toward more point-to-point services, and in the post-covid era some airlines have already begun services which not long ago would have been considered "creative". (Though how long some of these will last is an open question). In this context, DUD-BNE is not at all an outrageous route for another carrier to pick up. From all accounts VA managed to get reasonable loads (though at what yield I don't know).

I also note that, when asked, NZ did not dismiss the idea of picking the route up - perhaps leaving their options open in case DCC is willing to post some guarantees). After all they already have A320 operations in both BNE and DUD and the international facilities are already in place in DUD, so there would be little holding them back from a technical or operational perspective. It would be purely and simply whether they see the market is there, and whether they can gain an edge over QF/JQ in the larger TT market.
 
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qf789
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 8:14 am

Please continue discussion in New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2021

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1460407

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