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Opus99
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:45 pm

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/13 ... 66880?s=21

A max was delivered today

Or let me say redelivered
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:16 pm

Until quite recently, Boeing and specifically the commercial aircraft division was one of the last remaining beacons of pride for those who appreciate "American made". This probably won't make me book away from any aircraft for air travel, but it's so sad to watch.
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seahawk
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:29 am

Total non-story, mistakes happen.
 
Noshow
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:04 am

If airline customers have to inspect something before the next revenue flight it is NOT a non story for sure. I hope they get this solved fast.
 
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MrBren
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:55 am

Some people here call that mistakes. That's frightening knowing security issues with that particular aircraft.
 
Noshow
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:01 am

It is not so much about the aircraft but about production process oversight. It's good they finally found it themselves and actively informed about it but how can a functional change like the one to fasteners remain unnoticed at higher level? Were does it all come together?
'We were not required to inform the FAA about that minor change' is not a good line defense. After all the wait they could have fine tuned all production details. It is no drama but it is the wrong moment to go on with stuff like this.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:00 pm

MrBren wrote:
Some people here call that mistakes. That's frightening knowing security issues with that particular aircraft.

A quick one, the words security in English and sécurité in French are false friends; my understanding is that sécurité best translates to safety, while security best translates to sûreté (although I believe the sense of the two words in the two languages may not be 100% the same).

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FluidFlow
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:36 pm

Nothing to see here, that stuff happens everywhere in manufacturing. We have a nice saying here „Wo gehobelt wird fallen Späne“. Boeing found the problem and it gets fixed. It was rather unfortunate it took so many builds before it was discovered.

Bad design is a problem, not discovering mistakes is a problem, not aknowledging systemic shortcomings are a problem and Boeing had all of that with the MAX but this „issue“ here happens with everything all the time.
 
VC10er
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:26 pm

The general population does seem to get overly worked up. Probably because an airplane disaster (no matter how rare) terrifies people. Like swimming in the ocean of the Jersey Shore and people are looking out for a Great White shark!

I have 2 friends who say that they will never fly the MAX. I asked one why after presenting her with the facts. It’s like QAnon! She said “it’s an unstable airplane!?” - what can anyone do but wait a few years. She had ZERO recollection of the 787 battery fires.
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jeffrey0032j
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:23 pm

This affects the planes delivered post grounding. Planes delivered pre-grounding are not affected and are still flying. As some of the post grounding planes were built 2 years ago, ie next in line from the pre grounding planes, it seems less like an actual physical issue than something that was incorrectly checked off or left out from a checklist.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:33 pm

VC10er wrote:
The general population does seem to get overly worked up. Probably because an airplane disaster (no matter how rare) terrifies people. Like swimming in the ocean of the Jersey Shore and people are looking out for a Great White shark!

I have 2 friends who say that they will never fly the MAX. I asked one why after presenting her with the facts. It’s like QAnon! She said “it’s an unstable airplane!?” - what can anyone do but wait a few years. She had ZERO recollection of the 787 battery fires.


Sounds like your friend is an expert in aerodynamics.

Some of my family is like that too. Everything is a big drama all the time.
 
sphealey
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will ground some of the jets again

Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:35 pm

32andBelow wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Not a huge crazy thing but it's still ridiculous the amount of issues Boeing has in QC in the production their aircraft as of late, so incredibly disappointing to see the mess that is Boeing currently. Especially since this thing sat on the ground for 2 years and still didn't catch it.

ADs come out all the time for all planes. ADs still come out for like Saab 340s and B1900s

I'm no expert with the FAA AD database, but just a quick check revealed an active AD issued in 2011 that covers not only the Douglas/McDonnell-Douglas/Boeing DC-3/C-47 but also the Boeing 247. So yeah, while ADs are important they are not rare and don't imply the approach of DOOM.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:40 pm

seahawk wrote:
Total non-story, mistakes happen.


Well said. It was a manufacturing issue that was inadvertently getting paint primer in a bolt hole that was affecting the electrical path to ground. At worst it would have affected a back-up electrical system. It only affects some recent build airplanes.

Boeing discovered the problem and immediately disclosed it so the potentially affected airplanes can be taken out of service out of an abundance of caution.

No-one was hurt. The affected airplanes will be fixed. The manufacturing issue will be corrected so it doesn’t happen again.

The Max is a very safe airplane since return to service. I hope to get to fly on one soon.
 
Vicenza
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:42 pm

[quote="BoeingGuy"
No-one was hurt. The affected airplanes will be fixed. The manufacturing issue will be corrected so it doesn’t happen again.

The Max is a very safe airplane since return to service. I hope to get to fly on one soon.[/quote]

Perhaps, but it has only been returned to service a matter of weeks.

I'm more concerned with you say that because no-one was hurt the matter can simply be glossed over as trivial....ignoring that it should not have happened in the first place, and certainly not with the alleged scrutiny this aircraft supposedly received from Boeing.
 
Antarius
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:49 pm

Vicenza wrote:
I'm more concerned with you say that because no-one was hurt the matter can simply be glossed over as trivial....ignoring that it should not have happened in the first place, and certainly not with the alleged scrutiny this aircraft supposedly received from Boeing.


No one said the matter should be glossed over. People (me included) said that the matter is routine and the process worked in this case. There are 100+ ADs out there from the last 2 months - and they are from all the manufacturers.

Good that the problem was caught and it's being fixed and that the process worked..There is no reason for hysteria. that's all.
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BoeingGuy
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:57 pm

Vicenza wrote:
[quote="BoeingGuy"
No-one was hurt. The affected airplanes will be fixed. The manufacturing issue will be corrected so it doesn’t happen again.

The Max is a very safe airplane since return to service. I hope to get to fly on one soon.


Perhaps, but it has only been returned to service a matter of weeks.

I'm more concerned with you say that because no-one was hurt the matter can simply be glossed over as trivial....ignoring that it should not have happened in the first place, and certainly not with the alleged scrutiny this aircraft supposedly received from Boeing.[/quote]

Again, for those of you who have not read or don’t understand what the real issue is....it is NOT a design issue. It was a change to the manufacturing process in the factory. Has nothing to do with the scrutiny the airplane received. Has nothing to do with return to service or the past issue with the airplane.

Please cite where I said it was trivial. Please cite where I said it’s okay if happened in the first place.

Don’t put words in people’s mouths.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:04 am

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... ings-woes/

quote: The lack of secure electrical grounding could potentially cause malfunctions in a variety of electrical systems, such as the engine anti-ice system and the auxiliary power unit (APU) in the plane’s tail.

IMO that is not a minor fault. It points also to how serious this fault is, that the affected frames are grounded by Boeing until they are repaired. That makes it not a common occurrence in regards to an AD.

Kudos to Boeing that they found this fault and moved fast to correct it.
 
Capricorn
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:39 am

While the AD itself seems relatively unproblematic and can happen during any manufacturing process, PR wise it is a nightmare par excellence. Luckily this news probably get buried under much more C19 news and the general flying public will not notice this, or rather might be relatively unconcerned since they have bigger things to worry about.
 
Noshow
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:37 am

Without specifically blaming Boeing but maybe this self-controlling, self-certifying approach went too far? We have seen issues at maintenance facilities and airlines as well.

Aviation authorities seem to bring back manpower and own inspections after thankfully getting proper funding again. And Boeing took the inspectors out of the program pressures and back to the chief engineers watch. Possibly detecting this fault now is even a result of this change?
 
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par13del
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:38 pm

Noshow wrote:
Without specifically blaming Boeing but maybe this self-controlling, self-certifying approach went too far? We have seen issues at maintenance facilities and airlines as well.

I thought during the grounding the FAA removed Boeing certification authority and the FAA also stated that they would certify each individual MAX frame?
What am I missing where self certification is still a concern, its all on the FAA now.
 
travaz
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:16 pm

I will defer to the EE's on the thread but I am thinking that the power unit was properly grounded by the use of rivets it is being grounded through the rack. Could this be as simple as either replacing the fasteners with rivets or establishing a connection (a wire?) between the unit and the rack?
 
sxf24
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:37 pm

Capricorn wrote:
While the AD itself seems relatively unproblematic and can happen during any manufacturing process, PR wise it is a nightmare par excellence. Luckily this news probably get buried under much more C19 news and the general flying public will not notice this, or rather might be relatively unconcerned since they have bigger things to worry about.


There is no AD. Boeing sent a Multi-Operator Message with recommended action. Asking for planes to be removed from service was unusual and probably a response to the grounding and trying to appear especially safe and cautious.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:19 pm

To rank this AD, what percent of ADs require planes to be grounded for inspections or fixing? Second, how long does the grounding for inspections and fixing generally take? While this one is not terrible serious I think it is a little bigger deal than most ADs
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Antarius
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:26 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
To rank this AD, what percent of ADs require planes to be grounded for inspections or fixing? Second, how long does the grounding for inspections and fixing generally take? While this one is not terrible serious I think it is a little bigger deal than most ADs


I believe it is 90/500 or thereabouts.
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sxf24
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:56 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
To rank this AD, what percent of ADs require planes to be grounded for inspections or fixing? Second, how long does the grounding for inspections and fixing generally take? While this one is not terrible serious I think it is a little bigger deal than most ADs


There’s not an AD.
 
Antarius
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:51 am

sxf24 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
To rank this AD, what percent of ADs require planes to be grounded for inspections or fixing? Second, how long does the grounding for inspections and fixing generally take? While this one is not terrible serious I think it is a little bigger deal than most ADs


There’s not an AD.


Right, but the FAA has been notified and there likely will be one.

For all intents and purposes, it's going to be treated as one.
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sxf24
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:27 pm

Antarius wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
To rank this AD, what percent of ADs require planes to be grounded for inspections or fixing? Second, how long does the grounding for inspections and fixing generally take? While this one is not terrible serious I think it is a little bigger deal than most ADs


There’s not an AD.


Right, but the FAA has been notified and there likely will be one.

For all intents and purposes, it's going to be treated as one.


If there’s not an AD, stop saying there is one. Not everything becomes an AD, it if one is released, that’s a good time to talk about it.
 
avi8
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:32 pm

How long will the aircraft be grounded for? Or are some already back in the air?
avi8
 
KFTG
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:59 pm

My hot take: the system is working as designed. By being pro-active with the recommendations, Boeing is demonstrating their willingness to self-regulate, regardless of the negative PR that comes with. It also shows that quality control safeguards are in place and functioning. I am also old enough to remember when AA grounded their entire 300+ strong MD-80 fleet about 10 years ago over an electrical issue. This too shall pass.
 
Antarius
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:37 pm

KFTG wrote:
My hot take: the system is working as designed. By being pro-active with the recommendations, Boeing is demonstrating their willingness to self-regulate, regardless of the negative PR that comes with. It also shows that quality control safeguards are in place and functioning. I am also old enough to remember when AA grounded their entire 300+ strong MD-80 fleet about 10 years ago over an electrical issue. This too shall pass.


IMO, that's not a hot take. Apart from the usual suspects on a.net, everyone who is part of or closely follows the industry agrees with this. Problems happen, they get reported to operators and the FAA and they get fixed.

From the well known 737NG pickle fork issue to the brand new AD on the a320 relating to heat treatment issues on the nose landing gear.. this stuff happens. Aviation is safe because of proactive fixes.
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:18 pm

Do we have a copy of the actual communication Boeing sent to the airlines?

Trying to parse media statements is problematic, since most media members don't know anything about aviation.

ST ( https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... ings-woes/ ) reports:

The problem, according to two people with knowledge of the modified manufacturing process, arose when a backup electrical power control unit was secured to a rack on the flight deck with fasteners — in place of the rivets previously used.

This change was executed in such a way that it did not provide a complete electrical grounding path to the unit. The lack of secure electrical grounding could potentially cause malfunctions in a variety of electrical systems, such as the engine anti-ice system and the auxiliary power unit (APU) in the plane’s tail.

Boeing said it discovered the issue “on a production airplane during normal build activity” and that inspections are needed to verify “that a sufficient ground path exists” for this control unit.

The statement of the media (This change was executed in such a way that it did not provide a complete electrical grounding path to the unit) seems to conflict with the statement of Boeing (inspections are needed to verify “that a sufficient ground path exists” for this control unit).

Seems Boeing is saying to check grounding and if OK you're good to go, whereas the media is saying it is not possible for the fastener approach to provide a good enough grounding of the unit.

Either way, I would think AMEs are able to replace fasteners with rivets so the way back should not be difficult.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:25 pm

I think future aircraft designs should use more pre-installed cameras or visual inspection points/portals for quick inspections. These never ending inspections are costing industry a fortune. Not specific to Boeing or MAX.
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iamlucky13
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:36 pm

Revelation wrote:
The statement of the media (This change was executed in such a way that it did not provide a complete electrical grounding path to the unit) seems to conflict with the statement of Boeing (inspections are needed to verify “that a sufficient ground path exists” for this control unit).


I'd read that as "may not" rather than "did not". As you noted, Boeing knows more about this than the media does.

Revelation wrote:
Either way, I would think AMEs are able to replace fasteners with rivets so the way back should not be difficult.


Threaded fasteners can be used for grounding, too, but if the rivets were accomplishing it by filling a hole drilled at installation, then bolts might instead need paint cleaned around the hole.
 
dougbr2006
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:18 pm

Revelation wrote:
Do we have a copy of the actual communication Boeing sent to the airlines?

Trying to parse media statements is problematic, since most media members don't know anything about aviation.

ST ( https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... ings-woes/ ) reports:

The problem, according to two people with knowledge of the modified manufacturing process, arose when a backup electrical power control unit was secured to a rack on the flight deck with fasteners — in place of the rivets previously used.

This change was executed in such a way that it did not provide a complete electrical grounding path to the unit. The lack of secure electrical grounding could potentially cause malfunctions in a variety of electrical systems, such as the engine anti-ice system and the auxiliary power unit (APU) in the plane’s tail.

Boeing said it discovered the issue “on a production airplane during normal build activity” and that inspections are needed to verify “that a sufficient ground path exists” for this control unit.

The statement of the media (This change was executed in such a way that it did not provide a complete electrical grounding path to the unit) seems to conflict with the statement of Boeing (inspections are needed to verify “that a sufficient ground path exists” for this control unit).

Seems Boeing is saying to check grounding and if OK you're good to go, whereas the media is saying it is not possible for the fastener approach to provide a good enough grounding of the unit.

Either way, I would think AMEs are able to replace fasteners with rivets so the way back should not be difficult.


Firstly I would have thought that such a unit would have a negative electrical path through its own integrated external electrical connector. Though I also find it strange that a unit of such importance does not have a bonding lead attached to its chassis and from there to a proven grounding point. Back in the day 1980's I worked on airliners at British Airways and remember that almost all of the electrical system control units etc were externally chassis grounded with a bonding lead, Have things changed where it is taken to chance that the bare metal bonding connection between units and rack etc are taken as points of secure earth or negative path returns.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:10 pm

dougbr2006 wrote:
Firstly I would have thought that such a unit would have a negative electrical path through its own integrated external electrical connector. Though I also find it strange that a unit of such importance does not have a bonding lead attached to its chassis and from there to a proven grounding point. Back in the day 1980's I worked on airliners at British Airways and remember that almost all of the electrical system control units etc were externally chassis grounded with a bonding lead, Have things changed where it is taken to chance that the bare metal bonding connection between units and rack etc are taken as points of secure earth or negative path returns.

Very good points. Hopefully someone can provide more info.
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mjoelnir
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:34 pm

dougbr2006 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Do we have a copy of the actual communication Boeing sent to the airlines?

Trying to parse media statements is problematic, since most media members don't know anything about aviation.

ST ( https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... ings-woes/ ) reports:

The problem, according to two people with knowledge of the modified manufacturing process, arose when a backup electrical power control unit was secured to a rack on the flight deck with fasteners — in place of the rivets previously used.

This change was executed in such a way that it did not provide a complete electrical grounding path to the unit. The lack of secure electrical grounding could potentially cause malfunctions in a variety of electrical systems, such as the engine anti-ice system and the auxiliary power unit (APU) in the plane’s tail.

Boeing said it discovered the issue “on a production airplane during normal build activity” and that inspections are needed to verify “that a sufficient ground path exists” for this control unit.

The statement of the media (This change was executed in such a way that it did not provide a complete electrical grounding path to the unit) seems to conflict with the statement of Boeing (inspections are needed to verify “that a sufficient ground path exists” for this control unit).

Seems Boeing is saying to check grounding and if OK you're good to go, whereas the media is saying it is not possible for the fastener approach to provide a good enough grounding of the unit.

Either way, I would think AMEs are able to replace fasteners with rivets so the way back should not be difficult.


Firstly I would have thought that such a unit would have a negative electrical path through its own integrated external electrical connector. Though I also find it strange that a unit of such importance does not have a bonding lead attached to its chassis and from there to a proven grounding point. Back in the day 1980's I worked on airliners at British Airways and remember that almost all of the electrical system control units etc were externally chassis grounded with a bonding lead, Have things changed where it is taken to chance that the bare metal bonding connection between units and rack etc are taken as points of secure earth or negative path returns.


The failure is, that the thread of the grounding point was not cleaned from paint, so it did not provide a proper grounding.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:23 pm

Looking at FR24 today, it appears many aircraft have returned to service compared to the end of last week.
 
889091
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:12 pm

Revelation wrote:
dougbr2006 wrote:
Firstly I would have thought that such a unit would have a negative electrical path through its own integrated external electrical connector. Though I also find it strange that a unit of such importance does not have a bonding lead attached to its chassis and from there to a proven grounding point. Back in the day 1980's I worked on airliners at British Airways and remember that almost all of the electrical system control units etc were externally chassis grounded with a bonding lead, Have things changed where it is taken to chance that the bare metal bonding connection between units and rack etc are taken as points of secure earth or negative path returns.

Very good points. Hopefully someone can provide more info.


I see what you did there Rev! :bigthumbsup:
 
737max8
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:42 am

ikolkyo wrote:
Looking at FR24 today, it appears many aircraft have returned to service compared to the end of last week.


How do you know which tails were affected vs not affected?
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:49 am

737max8 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Looking at FR24 today, it appears many aircraft have returned to service compared to the end of last week.


How do you know which tails were affected vs not affected?


I don't, I've had FR24 filtered for MAX aircraft for awhile now and there was a huge dip in active aircraft when the AD came out. Lots more activity so far this week.
 
alasizon
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:45 am

ikolkyo wrote:
737max8 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Looking at FR24 today, it appears many aircraft have returned to service compared to the end of last week.


How do you know which tails were affected vs not affected?


I don't, I've had FR24 filtered for MAX aircraft for awhile now and there was a huge dip in active aircraft when the AD came out. Lots more activity so far this week.


All of AA's birds that were grounded still are grounded so it doesn't appear the issue has been resolved yet.
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:55 am

alasizon wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
737max8 wrote:

How do you know which tails were affected vs not affected?


I don't, I've had FR24 filtered for MAX aircraft for awhile now and there was a huge dip in active aircraft when the AD came out. Lots more activity so far this week.


All of AA's birds that were grounded still are grounded so it doesn't appear the issue has been resolved yet.


They aren't the only MAX operator.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:59 am

ikolkyo wrote:
alasizon wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:

I don't, I've had FR24 filtered for MAX aircraft for awhile now and there was a huge dip in active aircraft when the AD came out. Lots more activity so far this week.


All of AA's birds that were grounded still are grounded so it doesn't appear the issue has been resolved yet.


They aren't the only MAX operator.


So? He was giving an example indicating there was not a complete resolution. And I appreciate that insight.

Additionally, Alaska’s have no flown in 3 days.
 
alasizon
Posts: 2976
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:03 am

ikolkyo wrote:
alasizon wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:

I don't, I've had FR24 filtered for MAX aircraft for awhile now and there was a huge dip in active aircraft when the AD came out. Lots more activity so far this week.


All of AA's birds that were grounded still are grounded so it doesn't appear the issue has been resolved yet.


They aren't the only MAX operator.


No but most of WN's are also still grounded. That would be roughly 45 of the aircraft out of 90 that are effected, so the issue hasn't been resolved. The increase in MAX flying you are seeing is unrelated to the grounding issue being resolved but rather a result of more MAXes returning to/entering service.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
jeffrey0032j
Posts: 974
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:11 pm

Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:20 am

All of the ones flying now were delivered pre-grounding.
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3322
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:07 pm

jeffrey0032j wrote:
All of the ones flying now were delivered pre-grounding.

Same with UA. Delivered 16 delivered in 2020 and 2021 parked since 4/8 - no future flights scheduled at this point.
do we know who's doing the inspections and how much work it takes to get to the parts involved?
I wonder why simply running a wire bonded to each part that fasteners were used wouldn't be good enough to do the repair.
 
airgpo
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:35 pm

Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:35 am

KFTG wrote:
... By being pro-active with the recommendations, Boeing is demonstrating their willingness to self-regulate, regardless of the negative PR that comes with.


Was there an option?
 
Antarius
Posts: 3436
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:47 am

airgpo wrote:
KFTG wrote:
... By being pro-active with the recommendations, Boeing is demonstrating their willingness to self-regulate, regardless of the negative PR that comes with.


Was there an option?


The other "option" is like the MAX fiasco. Lots of things were missed to create a non redundant flight control system.

So, this time around if the processes are tighter and the checks are better, it's a good thing.
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9652
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:56 pm

The grounding problem keeps expanding.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-737 ... lista_pos2

quote: The same production changes also impacted the grounding path of the aircraft’s main instrument panel and the rack that houses the standby power unit, Boeing found during its recent assessments. Those areas must be inspected and modified as well, Boeing said.

And they FAA seems to be dragging it's feet, as it is traditional with problems regarding Boeing.

Boeing itself seems to learned its lesson, grounding frames is better than risking the next crash.
 
Opus99
Posts: 2222
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will require electrical inspection

Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:11 am

mjoelnir wrote:
The grounding problem keeps expanding.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-737 ... lista_pos2

quote: The same production changes also impacted the grounding path of the aircraft’s main instrument panel and the rack that houses the standby power unit, Boeing found during its recent assessments. Those areas must be inspected and modified as well, Boeing said.

And they FAA seems to be dragging it's feet, as it is traditional with problems regarding Boeing.

Boeing itself seems to learned its lesson, grounding frames is better than risking the next crash.

Seems the FAA does not believe it’s worth a grounding

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