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ikramerica
Posts: 15125
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:24 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Dalmd88 wrote:
Companies don't have much to stand on currently to make it mandatory to have a vaccine. All of the vaccines are currently only approved for emergency use. They are considered experimental. Even the US military can not mandate that emergency use vaccines are required.

I highly doubt that even when they are completely approved few companies will make them mandatory. The legal fight just isn't worth it. Most will highly encourage the vaccines and possibly reward the employees that do get it.


:talktothehand:

Approved Covid-19 vaccines are just that. They are NOT experimental in any way shape or form. This is just disinformation campaign sprouted by anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists.

https://fullfact.org/online/covid-vacci ... xperiment/

Good thing you used that emoji.

Thing is, they have not been granted anything but an emergency use in most countries. They therefor can not be mandated, though some are trying.

I ain't not anti-vaccine dude neither. Got mine. Everyone in our family got theirs. Also got MMR last summer as it is very likely that it conveys protection from Covid.

But I am an ethicist at heart. Can't mandate it yet. And will fight against it if they try to make my young kids take it.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
santi319
Posts: 1100
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:33 pm

I hope they do. We really need to split society between the cognitive dissonance crowd and the rest of us. It waay overdue and this virus will never be over until people cooperate.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5279
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:34 pm

ikramerica wrote:
Strato2 wrote:
Dalmd88 wrote:
Companies don't have much to stand on currently to make it mandatory to have a vaccine. All of the vaccines are currently only approved for emergency use. They are considered experimental. Even the US military can not mandate that emergency use vaccines are required.

I highly doubt that even when they are completely approved few companies will make them mandatory. The legal fight just isn't worth it. Most will highly encourage the vaccines and possibly reward the employees that do get it.


:talktothehand:

Approved Covid-19 vaccines are just that. They are NOT experimental in any way shape or form. This is just disinformation campaign sprouted by anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists.

https://fullfact.org/online/covid-vacci ... xperiment/

Good thing you used that emoji.

Thing is, they have not been granted anything but an emergency use in most countries. They therefor can not be mandated, though some are trying.

I ain't not anti-vaccine dude neither. Got mine. Everyone in our family got theirs. Also got MMR last summer as it is very likely that it conveys protection from Covid.

But I am an ethicist at heart. Can't mandate it yet. And will fight against it if they try to make my young kids take it.

It doesn’t actually say anywhere you can’t mandate it. That’s just an opinion. It hasn’t been tested yet
 
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DalDC9Bos
Posts: 48
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:03 pm

I see the fed govt in the US and similar countries stepping in soon and mandating vaccination for pilots and cabin crew. The feds would be protected by sovereign immunity from lawsuits and reiterate that aviation is a vital industry to interstate commerce and national interests.

No other justification or explanation would be needed at that point. Refuse a federal background check and you lose the job offer. Refuse a vaccine against a deadly pandemic and you lose your job. Choice is allowed, but results in termination. Thousands of unemployed who have been vaccinated would gladly take those positions.
 
beachroad
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:26 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:08 pm

chonetsao wrote:
I don't think an individual company can force employees to have the vaccine. And I don't think it is right neither.

However, it does not stop destination country which is over cautious to require flight crew to be vaccinated as a temporary measure. Or a home country where personal liberty is less concerned requires crew to be vaccinated. Based on that, I can see some countries may require prove of vaccine for airline crew members to avoid lengthy quarantine, and I expect few airlines from few countries may boost all its international crew members are vaccinated, I just do not see it happening in US, UK, Europe and Australia. Qatar, Emirates, Chinese airlines, TK and SQ? I am not so sure. But then again, if you are operating flight to Africa and Brazil where the mutation is rampant, you may wish to be vaccinated even if there is no company mandate. If you are operating flight solely within USA, I don't see the need to be vaccinated unless you are in the high risk category.


That's a fair summary.

Most countries are going to require full vaccination for entry, for example Iceland already requires it or quarantine which includes compulsory COVID tests. Flight crew are, per their terms of employment, required to keep their visas and health in order to meet international entry requirements. In the US where everything is based on seniority, in theory any crew could be required to work any flight, especially if you are on standby. So as flight crew you've voluntarily made yourself unavailable (i.e. fired yourself) without the vaccine.

If your airline splits flight crew between geography, like Qantas does, then international crew absolutely have to meet international entry requirements or they're out of a job. Domestic only crew, probably harder to justify. However....... airlines have a legal responsibility to minimise harm - safety! If the vaccine reduces transmission of a potentially fatal disease that spreads in close environments (like working the galley), then some risk analyst could probably produce a model justifying compulsory vaccination. I've personally seen something like this, but so far my employer isn't using it literally.

There is also employment liability. If the captain catches COVID from a co-pilot after being in a small closed cockpit, is the airline liable? From the legal advice I have read, the answer is yes (provided you can prove it, which via test and trace apps you might).

For ground staff, I don't think they can mandate it. There is an argument for PPE for customer facing staff if passengers are not vaccinated and come from high risk locations, but I think in most jurisdictions vaccination seems hard to enforce.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:10 pm

No one will get "fired" for it. Companies will simply change their terms of employment to require vaccination. Your choices as an employee will be to either accept those terms or withhold your labor and separate from the company.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
Trk1
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:37 pm

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:25 pm

What a shame we live in a nation that the common good has been lost. We take shots not just for our selves but for the safety of everyone. Selfishness is why we continue to digress as a nation.
 
smartplane
Posts: 1664
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:40 pm

ikramerica wrote:
Strato2 wrote:
Dalmd88 wrote:
Companies don't have much to stand on currently to make it mandatory to have a vaccine. All of the vaccines are currently only approved for emergency use. They are considered experimental. Even the US military can not mandate that emergency use vaccines are required.

I highly doubt that even when they are completely approved few companies will make them mandatory. The legal fight just isn't worth it. Most will highly encourage the vaccines and possibly reward the employees that do get it.


:talktothehand:

Approved Covid-19 vaccines are just that. They are NOT experimental in any way shape or form. This is just disinformation campaign sprouted by anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists.

https://fullfact.org/online/covid-vacci ... xperiment/

Good thing you used that emoji.

Thing is, they have not been granted anything but an emergency use in most countries. They therefor can not be mandated, though some are trying.

I ain't not anti-vaccine dude neither. Got mine. Everyone in our family got theirs. Also got MMR last summer as it is very likely that it conveys protection from Covid.

But I am an ethicist at heart. Can't mandate it yet. And will fight against it if they try to make my young kids take it.

Used the Official Information Act to ascertain if the NZ Government had to indemnify vaccine manufacturers before they would supply, which is the case. An indemnity is required, perhaps because:

Age-related testing incomplete with exemptions / low priority for older age groups

Pre-existing conditions - only respiratory conditions tested.

Interference with other medications - largely un-tested

Vaccine brand compatibility - un-tested

Long-term - minimum 5 years (less than one completed).

Vaccines have been rolled out now for the greater good. If you are old (me), or have a diagnosed on undiagnosed medical condition, or your health professional decides / has to mix brands, choose your brand wisely.

While Governments are indemnifying vaccine manufacturers, not aware they are offering to compensate recipients in the event of proven causal links. Medical insurers treat Covid vaccinations in the same way as if you have Covid. Excluded.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:42 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
Companies don't have much to stand on currently to make it mandatory to have a vaccine. All of the vaccines are currently only approved for emergency use. They are considered experimental. Even the US military can not mandate that emergency use vaccines are required.

I highly doubt that even when they are completely approved few companies will make them mandatory. The legal fight just isn't worth it. Most will highly encourage the vaccines and possibly reward the employees that do get it.



Once again if you only fly US domestic maybe. But countries are requiring Flight crews to be vaccinated. If you don't do it you can't work.
 
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OA412
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:47 pm

Do not use this site to promote unscientific fallacies regarding COVID.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
airbazar
Posts: 10319
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:01 pm

An225 wrote:

No problem. Employers will require those not vaccinated to provide a negative COVID test before each shift. Those failing to comply will not work till providing evidence clean bill of health. Lets see how long these employees will keep with this.


The good news is the folks running companies in this country know better than you how to run a company. If they do what you're suggesting they would lose valuable workers to companies that are far better run and invest in employee safety. At my company for example, the company provides weekly testing for everyone including those who have been vaccinated because as people should know by now, the vaccine doesn't protect against infection and its efficacy against the newer strains is still very much unknown. In addition we are given contact tracing tags to wear inside the office so they can quickly identify the close contacts when one of us tests positive. That my friend is the how a well run company does it.

On the topic of airline crew specifically, and putting a side the fact that all covid-19 vaccines have only received EUA, aren't crew required to have certain vaccines already when flying into countries that mandate it? Like the yellow fever vaccine for example? How is this any different? Lets say the UK, EU, Japan mandate a covid-19 vaccine for everyone entering the country, how is a crew member supposed to do its job if he or she doesn't have the vaccine? It may have nothing to do with the U.S. at all if you're a crew member for a U.S. airline.
 
beachroad
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:21 pm

airbazar wrote:
On the topic of airline crew specifically, and putting a side the fact that all covid-19 vaccines are still in their trial phases and therefore not fully approved for use yet, aren't crew required to have certain vaccines already when flying into countries that mandate it? Like the yellow fever vaccine for example? How is this any different? Lets say the UK, EU, Japan mandate a covid-19 vaccine for everyone entering the country, ow is a crew member supposed to do its job if he or she doesn't have the vaccine? It may have nothing to do with the U.S. at all if you're a crew member for a U.S. airline.


That's correct. You have to maintain your passport, criminal record and health in order to meet international entry rules and operational safety requirements. You also have to follow local laws, no matter how much they might clash with your morals. I'm afraid that doesn't mean the rules or laws as they were on your hire date, it means as they are today and any future changes, no matter how much you like them or don't. Failure to do so breaches your employment terms = no job. It's best to resign.

It's operationally impossible to run a global operation based upon individual staff preferences. The job is the job, operational requirements are just that, requirements. Can't fit the requirements, can't have the job.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:26 pm

that are far better run and invest in employee safety. At my company for example, the company provides weekly testing for everyone including those who have been vaccinated because as people should know by now, the vaccine doesn't protect against infection and its efficacy against the newer strains is still very much unknown.


If the currently approved vaccines don’t prevent infection, what’s the point? The US FDA has approved based on tests showing pretty high efficacy and practical applications in the US, Israel has shown the testing to be pretty accurate.
 
airtran737
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:27 pm

Trk1 wrote:
What a shame we live in a nation that the common good has been lost. We take shots not just for our selves but for the safety of everyone. Selfishness is why we continue to digress as a nation.


I don't care about the common good. I care about what is best for me. And as long as things like this exist https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-heal ... SKBN2BX0JX then I will continue to refuse to take a vaccine that has not been through the same level of trials as others.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
32andBelow
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:30 pm

airtran737 wrote:
Trk1 wrote:
What a shame we live in a nation that the common good has been lost. We take shots not just for our selves but for the safety of everyone. Selfishness is why we continue to digress as a nation.


I don't care about the common good. I care about what is best for me. And as long as things like this exist https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-heal ... SKBN2BX0JX then I will continue to refuse to take a vaccine that has not been through the same level of trials as others.

What part of the trial did they skip? Stop posting fake news.
 
DoctorVenkman
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:42 pm

airtran737 wrote:
Trk1 wrote:
What a shame we live in a nation that the common good has been lost. We take shots not just for our selves but for the safety of everyone. Selfishness is why we continue to digress as a nation.


I don't care about the common good. I care about what is best for me. And as long as things like this exist https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-heal ... SKBN2BX0JX then I will continue to refuse to take a vaccine that has not been through the same level of trials as others.


At least you're honest about your selfishness. Maybe if you were a bit more rational though, you'd realize the risk from the vaccine is far less than the risk from COVID. The data is very clear about that. It's in everyone's best interest to get the vaccine, whether you care about the common good or not.
 
m1m2
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:39 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:54 pm

Well, I don't know if this is selfish or not, but I'm ready to take the vaccine as soon as it is offered to me. I've lived in this covid world long enough, I'm ready for my life back. It's done enough bad to me now that I'm ready to help with getting things back to normal, But, I guess if you are someone who hasn't been negatively affected by this virus, then do your own thing. Hopefully you are in the minority and enough will do the right thing (my opinion of course) to stop further death and destruction.
 
airtechy
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:04 pm

I'm not sure about the EU countries, but it's almost a sure bet that the Asian countries will require flight crews to be vaccinated .. and they will start with their own airline crews. That will happen when the vaccines become available to everyone who wants them. At that point, delays and excuses will not apply. At the rate we are giving jabs in the US, that will happen in a few months .. maybe longer in Asia as they are just getting started with jabs. Also, I think a lot of countries will require tourists to be vaccinated before entry. I can't see them carving out an exception for aircrews.

I also can't see the US international airlines segregating their crews into have gotten and have not gotten a vaccine shot groups. The people that have had a negative reaction to the vaccines are .... as they say in engineering .. down in the noise level. And even then, they were minor reactions. We now have millions of doses of data to show that. Airline management knows this, are data driven, and when the vaccine requirements start to hit their bottom line or stop international flights altogether they will react accordingly even though there will be 'my rights' , ' not proven' , and 'my body' employee holdouts. How they will do that remains to be seen.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:27 pm

airtran737 wrote:
I don't care about the common good. I care about what is best for me. And as long as things like this exist https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-heal ... SKBN2BX0JX then I will continue to refuse to take a vaccine that has not been through the same level of trials as others.


I'd rather have partial protection to the South African variant that keeps me out of a hospital or an early grave than to have no protection at all. The mRNA technology makes adjustments to the vaccines rather easy. We're likely to need some boosters over the next few years to stop the variants. Getting vaccinated ASAP decreases the ability of the virus to replicate, mutate, and create new variants.
 
cschleic
Posts: 1864
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:06 pm

An225 wrote:
Citrus1492 wrote:
26point2 wrote:
In the US there is some debate about the legality of mandating employees to get vaccinated. This issue is still developing as far as I understand it and it looks like it may be left up to the individual states to declare their policy.

What is the position with regards to airlines, their employees and the COVID vaccine? Will/are airlines requiring employees to get vaccinated?

My body, my choice. I will not be a lab rat for big pharma.
You can always say its against your religion. If your employer cans you, after telling them that, I see a large settlement in your future.


No problem. Employers will require those not vaccinated to provide a negative COVID test before each shift. Those failing to comply will not work till providing evidence clean bill of health. Lets see how long these employees will keep with this.


By "...you can always say it's again your religion..." you've just admitted that would be lying about it. Yeah, and if I get infected and contact tracing shows I had contact with you, I see a potential settlement with you and your employer on the wrong end of that. Plus I'll vote with my wallet when traveling. It's likely airlines will wait for various countries to implement mandates. If you want your job including flying to XYZ country then you'll comply with their law.

A number of years ago a media company required employees to sign an oath of allegiance to the then president of the U.S. Would you have objected to that? My brain and thoughts, my decision.
 
airbazar
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:14 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
that are far better run and invest in employee safety. At my company for example, the company provides weekly testing for everyone including those who have been vaccinated because as people should know by now, the vaccine doesn't protect against infection and its efficacy against the newer strains is still very much unknown.


If the currently approved vaccines don’t prevent infection, what’s the point? The US FDA has approved based on tests showing pretty high efficacy and practical applications in the US, Israel has shown the testing to be pretty accurate.


This is an airline forum so I'll keep short. The point is to keep some at risk people from dying by helping their immune system fight the virus when they become infected. For 99% of the population their immune system is just as good if not better than the vaccine. The problem is no one knows why this virus attacks some people so badly hence the carpet bombing of the entire population with the vaccine. I personally disagree with that strategy but for the purpose of travel and crossing borders I'm afraid we're not going to have a choice not to get vaccinated.
 
32andBelow
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:21 pm

airbazar wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
that are far better run and invest in employee safety. At my company for example, the company provides weekly testing for everyone including those who have been vaccinated because as people should know by now, the vaccine doesn't protect against infection and its efficacy against the newer strains is still very much unknown.


If the currently approved vaccines don’t prevent infection, what’s the point? The US FDA has approved based on tests showing pretty high efficacy and practical applications in the US, Israel has shown the testing to be pretty accurate.


This is an airline forum so I'll keep short. The point is to keep some at risk people from dying by helping their immune system fight the virus when they become infected. For 99% of the population their immune system is just as good if not better than the vaccine. The problem is no one knows why this virus attacks some people so badly hence the carpet bombing of the entire population with the vaccine. I personally disagree with that strategy but for the purpose of travel and crossing borders I'm afraid we're not going to have a choice not to get vaccinated.

No ones immune system is better than the vaccine. If you have the vaccine you already have antibodies the first time the virus challenges you.
 
Vicenza
Posts: 262
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:35 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
that are far better run and invest in employee safety. At my company for example, the company provides weekly testing for everyone including those who have been vaccinated because as people should know by now, the vaccine doesn't protect against infection and its efficacy against the newer strains is still very much unknown.


If the currently approved vaccines don’t prevent infection, what’s the point? The US FDA has approved based on tests showing pretty high efficacy and practical applications in the US, Israel has shown the testing to be pretty accurate.


No vaccine prevents any infection......that is not it's purpose, nor design. The purpose of any vaccine is to protect the individual from serious implications from the given disease, and possibly potential death. If one becomes infected, the antibodies (from the vaccine) attack and destroy the disease and, in doing so, prevent it mutating. But a vaccine itself has no way of preventing one from becoming infected. The whole purpose of any vaccine programme is to stop the spread of a disease by preventing mutation, and thus developing into more deadly forms. Not meaning yourself in any way, but too many on here simply spout nonsense.
 
jayunited
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:03 pm

CALMSP wrote:
well, UA has already asked its employees to upload their status via their profile...............not going over so well with a number of staff.



United is also letting pilots and FA's who wish to work our flights to Africa know they will need several vaccines (including yellow fever vaccine) in order to work those trips. And they will need to show proof of vaccination to work those trips. The kicker is there is no shortage of pilots and FA's interesting in working UA's soon to launch flights to Africa.

However the vaccines required to travel to Africa have been around for more than a generation, not the same thing as the COVID vaccines. Even though UA is asking employees to update their profile with their vaccination status they are not requiring employees be vaccinated.

Having said that we have to keep in mind United is still an international carrier and while the US may not ever require international travelers to show proof of vaccination to enter this country the same may not be said for other countries. It is obvious testing isn't enough to fully reopen international borders, and many countries around the world when they do reopen will require all entrants including crew members be vaccinated. At the beginning of this pandemic we saw many countries around the world offer exemptions on testing for crew member. Fast forward to today and a lot of countries have either moved away from those exemptions or are expiring moving away from those exemptions. I think if countries require all entrants show proof of vaccination there will be no exemption for working crew members.

So while I do not think airlines like United will mandate all employees get vaccinated by not getting vaccinated pilots and flight attendants run the risk they may not be able to work at trip like SFO-SYD just as an example if they haven't been vaccinated.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:27 pm

the airline I work for is clear that the vaccine is highly recommended but they are not mandating it or even tracking it, and that's fine with me. Let's say I was allergic to a component that was present in all the vaccines, then what? Many people have had it at work (as we were first in the country to access vaccination) but I know many who haven't for whatever reason. It's their risk at the end of the day, let everyone who wants it get it done and the rest who don't can live (or not) with the consequences.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
rbavfan
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:56 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Dalmd88 wrote:
Companies don't have much to stand on currently to make it mandatory to have a vaccine. All of the vaccines are currently only approved for emergency use. They are considered experimental. Even the US military can not mandate that emergency use vaccines are required.

I highly doubt that even when they are completely approved few companies will make them mandatory. The legal fight just isn't worth it. Most will highly encourage the vaccines and possibly reward the employees that do get it.


:talktothehand:

Approved Covid-19 vaccines are just that. They are NOT experimental in any way shape or form. This is just disinformation campaign sprouted by anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists.

https://fullfact.org/online/covid-vacci ... xperiment/


People don't realize one reason Vaccines got here so quick is the research stated with SARS (2002), followed by MERS (2012) both of which are variants of this virus. They have studied ways to fight it for years. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html
Last edited by rbavfan on Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3747
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:03 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
I don’t care one way or the other as I am already fully vaccinated. But if they wanted to, I believe there are ways they can influence you to get vaccinated without it being mandatory. I.E. a health and wellness credit on your healthcare premium, or other similar policies.

To me, I don’t have a right to privacy with the company as I submit to background checks and drug screens. How dare they see where I have lived in and worked, and how dare they test my urine. It’s worth the loss of privacy and freedom to enjoy recreational substances in order to have a good paying job. So if they did, it wouldn’t bother me. It is not a constitutional right to work for any company. You are free to find other employment if the terms change to where you are no longer comfortable.


My fave mask comment is they are taking my rights away making me wear a mask. So think about it unless you chop naked you have already givin up that right! Also I like the Crispy Creme donuts for proof of being vaccinated, but my waist does not.
 
DoctorVenkman
Posts: 251
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:14 am

airbazar wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
that are far better run and invest in employee safety. At my company for example, the company provides weekly testing for everyone including those who have been vaccinated because as people should know by now, the vaccine doesn't protect against infection and its efficacy against the newer strains is still very much unknown.


If the currently approved vaccines don’t prevent infection, what’s the point? The US FDA has approved based on tests showing pretty high efficacy and practical applications in the US, Israel has shown the testing to be pretty accurate.


This is an airline forum so I'll keep short. The point is to keep some at risk people from dying by helping their immune system fight the virus when they become infected. For 99% of the population their immune system is just as good if not better than the vaccine. The problem is no one knows why this virus attacks some people so badly hence the carpet bombing of the entire population with the vaccine. I personally disagree with that strategy but for the purpose of travel and crossing borders I'm afraid we're not going to have a choice not to get vaccinated.


This is patently untrue and goes against all known medical science on the subject. Being vaccinated substantially reduces risk of infection, hospitalization, and death for the entire population. In no circumstance would an unvaccinated individual perform better against the virus than if they were vaccinated. Saying that a naive immune system is just as good as a vaccinated one is pure nonsense. Please educate yourself before spouting off.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:46 am

Vicenza wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
that are far better run and invest in employee safety. At my company for example, the company provides weekly testing for everyone including those who have been vaccinated because as people should know by now, the vaccine doesn't protect against infection and its efficacy against the newer strains is still very much unknown.


If the currently approved vaccines don’t prevent infection, what’s the point? The US FDA has approved based on tests showing pretty high efficacy and practical applications in the US, Israel has shown the testing to be pretty accurate.


No vaccine prevents any infection......that is not it's purpose, nor design. The purpose of any vaccine is to protect the individual from serious implications from the given disease, and possibly potential death. If one becomes infected, the antibodies (from the vaccine) attack and destroy the disease and, in doing so, prevent it mutating. But a vaccine itself has no way of preventing one from becoming infected. The whole purpose of any vaccine programme is to stop the spread of a disease by preventing mutation, and thus developing into more deadly forms. Not meaning yourself in any way, but too many on here simply spout nonsense.


To the vaccine hesitant;
Vaccines prevent hospitalization, spread and severe symptoms.

The long haul symptoms seem to be nerve damage. That can be loss of taste, loss of smell, nerve pains.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020090 ... -survivors

People worry about rare or minor vaccine symptoms, the long haul symptoms are annoying:
https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Current-Resea ... ous-system

Vaccines help.symptom resolution:
https://www.wyomingnews.com/rocketminer ... 7cea9.html


Best never to get those symptoms.

I am normally annoyingly energetic. This weekend I was lathargic as tinnitus from Covid19 just wore me down. Now the healing, ironically, made it worse (I have had 1 dose of vaccine). While I will plow through, you don't want this.

I still cannot taste animal fat, including dairy. Butter and bacon are meh... Think about that. Hamburger and cheese is meh... I am lucky their. One of my cousins cannot taste food months later; to say the least, it is easy to meet a weight loss goal when food has no flavor except for a few intense spices.

One of my teenage nephews wakes up screaming at night from nerve pain due to covid-19. He is the captain of his high school football team and inherited the high family tolerance for pain.

A neighborhood child has inverted taste (all food tastes rotten).

So those complaining about worrying about the vaccine. Who do you personally know who had a bad side effect? Coronavirus killed a coworker, gave 3 heart attacks (including two who shouldn't have been at risk), scared the hell out of one coworkers lungs, and I personally know dozens of people fatigued from it.

I will take vaccine concerns seriously, but they are overplayed.

I am flying end of May. I will be fully vaccinated. A huge fraction won't be fully vaccinated. I won't worry about the unvaccinated except for special cases then. (I do assume children's vaccines are common then.)

Some high fraction of the population will not vaccinate. That means this virus will remain with us.

Lightsaber
5 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2266
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:54 am

Fully vaccinated myself, and highly recommend it for all who are eligible. That being said, I don't think (US) companies will be able to enforce mandatory vaccinations during EUA. I don't think that would stand up in court. That being said, once they're approved, it's just like MMR, Tetanus or any other vaccination that they can require. Some colleges are already requiring the vaccine for fall enrollment. Duke University I think was one of the first, but many others are following suit. I suppose they can do that, because college isn't protected by the US (or State level) constitutions. (i.e. it's not a "right").

Someone mentioned the US Military. Currently they cannot require EUA vaccinations, but I heard on NPR this week that Biden could make an EO that requires it. Not sure if he wants a battle with the rank and file this early in his admin. (Other) Vaccinations are not optional in the military.

NWAESC wrote:
No one will get "fired" for it. Companies will simply change their terms of employment to require vaccination. Your choices as an employee will be to either accept those terms or withhold your labor and separate from the company.


Depends on jurisdiction (in the US). Google "consideration" in the context of employment law/contacts.

In short: Generally an employer cannot modify an existing employment contract* requiring more from the employee without "consideration". I.e. if you're going to require some new "value" from your employee (i.e. a vaccination), you have to provide something of value to them (i.e. a pay raise, bonus, time off, etc.).

*Not all employment is governed by contracts. Much of it is "at-will". Again, depends on job type and local (State usually) jurisdiction.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
speedbird52
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:02 am

32andBelow wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Strato2 wrote:

:talktothehand:

Approved Covid-19 vaccines are just that. They are NOT experimental in any way shape or form. This is just disinformation campaign sprouted by anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists.

https://fullfact.org/online/covid-vacci ... xperiment/


Long-term clinical trials are still ongoing, for example all vaccines approved within the EU have only been conditionally approved pending the long-term results. This means that further evidence on this is awaited. So in a way they are still experimental...

I can’t wait to see the new excuses the loonies come up with after the vaccines are fully approved

I'll probably just get it. I really don't see how not wanting to take something that very well could be harmful over the long term (Other than the AZ bloodclotting and Moderna allergic reaction there would be evidence of short term harm if there was any by now) makes you a loony.
 
speedbird52
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:04 am

lightsaber wrote:
Vicenza wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

If the currently approved vaccines don’t prevent infection, what’s the point? The US FDA has approved based on tests showing pretty high efficacy and practical applications in the US, Israel has shown the testing to be pretty accurate.


No vaccine prevents any infection......that is not it's purpose, nor design. The purpose of any vaccine is to protect the individual from serious implications from the given disease, and possibly potential death. If one becomes infected, the antibodies (from the vaccine) attack and destroy the disease and, in doing so, prevent it mutating. But a vaccine itself has no way of preventing one from becoming infected. The whole purpose of any vaccine programme is to stop the spread of a disease by preventing mutation, and thus developing into more deadly forms. Not meaning yourself in any way, but too many on here simply spout nonsense.


To the vaccine hesitant;
Vaccines prevent hospitalization, spread and severe symptoms.

The long haul symptoms seem to be nerve damage. That can be loss of taste, loss of smell, nerve pains.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020090 ... -survivors

People worry about rare or minor vaccine symptoms, the long haul symptoms are annoying:
https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Current-Resea ... ous-system

Vaccines help.symptom resolution:
https://www.wyomingnews.com/rocketminer ... 7cea9.html


Best never to get those symptoms.

I am normally annoyingly energetic. This weekend I was lathargic as tinnitus from Covid19 just wore me down. Now the healing, ironically, made it worse (I have had 1 dose of vaccine). While I will plow through, you don't want this.

I still cannot taste animal fat, including dairy. Butter and bacon are meh... Think about that. Hamburger and cheese is meh... I am lucky their. One of my cousins cannot taste food months later; to say the least, it is easy to meet a weight loss goal when food has no flavor except for a few intense spices.

One of my teenage nephews wakes up screaming at night from nerve pain due to covid-19. He is the captain of his high school football team and inherited the high family tolerance for pain.

A neighborhood child has inverted taste (all food tastes rotten).

So those complaining about worrying about the vaccine. Who do you personally know who had a bad side effect? Coronavirus killed a coworker, gave 3 heart attacks (including two who shouldn't have been at risk), scared the hell out of one coworkers lungs, and I personally know dozens of people fatigued from it.

I will take vaccine concerns seriously, but they are overplayed.

I am flying end of May. I will be fully vaccinated. A huge fraction won't be fully vaccinated. I won't worry about the unvaccinated except for special cases then. (I do assume children's vaccines are common then.)

Some high fraction of the population will not vaccinate. That means this virus will remain with us.

Lightsaber

And on the other hand I do not know anyone with any sort of long term effects, or anyone who has died. Anecdotes are terrible evidence
Last edited by speedbird52 on Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Eagleboy
Posts: 1853
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:29 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:05 am

Im cabin crew (flight attendant) with an European airline for the last 20+ years.
My contact has always the had the clause relating to "any vaccines for operation to certain destinations are required"
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5279
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:07 am

speedbird52 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Vicenza wrote:

No vaccine prevents any infection......that is not it's purpose, nor design. The purpose of any vaccine is to protect the individual from serious implications from the given disease, and possibly potential death. If one becomes infected, the antibodies (from the vaccine) attack and destroy the disease and, in doing so, prevent it mutating. But a vaccine itself has no way of preventing one from becoming infected. The whole purpose of any vaccine programme is to stop the spread of a disease by preventing mutation, and thus developing into more deadly forms. Not meaning yourself in any way, but too many on here simply spout nonsense.


To the vaccine hesitant;
Vaccines prevent hospitalization, spread and severe symptoms.

The long haul symptoms seem to be nerve damage. That can be loss of taste, loss of smell, nerve pains.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020090 ... -survivors

People worry about rare or minor vaccine symptoms, the long haul symptoms are annoying:
https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Current-Resea ... ous-system

Vaccines help.symptom resolution:
https://www.wyomingnews.com/rocketminer ... 7cea9.html


Best never to get those symptoms.

I am normally annoyingly energetic. This weekend I was lathargic as tinnitus from Covid19 just wore me down. Now the healing, ironically, made it worse (I have had 1 dose of vaccine). While I will plow through, you don't want this.

I still cannot taste animal fat, including dairy. Butter and bacon are meh... Think about that. Hamburger and cheese is meh... I am lucky their. One of my cousins cannot taste food months later; to say the least, it is easy to meet a weight loss goal when food has no flavor except for a few intense spices.

One of my teenage nephews wakes up screaming at night from nerve pain due to covid-19. He is the captain of his high school football team and inherited the high family tolerance for pain.

A neighborhood child has inverted taste (all food tastes rotten).

So those complaining about worrying about the vaccine. Who do you personally know who had a bad side effect? Coronavirus killed a coworker, gave 3 heart attacks (including two who shouldn't have been at risk), scared the hell out of one coworkers lungs, and I personally know dozens of people fatigued from it.

I will take vaccine concerns seriously, but they are overplayed.

I am flying end of May. I will be fully vaccinated. A huge fraction won't be fully vaccinated. I won't worry about the unvaccinated except for special cases then. (I do assume children's vaccines are common then.)

Some high fraction of the population will not vaccinate. That means this virus will remain with us.

Lightsaber

And on the other hand I do not no anyone with any sort of long term effects, or anyone who has died. Anecdotes are terrible evidence

The amount of deaths and cases are well documented. Also the amount of people safely vaccinated is well document. This is excellent evidence.
 
speedbird52
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:09 am

32andBelow wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:

To the vaccine hesitant;
Vaccines prevent hospitalization, spread and severe symptoms.

The long haul symptoms seem to be nerve damage. That can be loss of taste, loss of smell, nerve pains.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020090 ... -survivors

People worry about rare or minor vaccine symptoms, the long haul symptoms are annoying:
https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Current-Resea ... ous-system

Vaccines help.symptom resolution:
https://www.wyomingnews.com/rocketminer ... 7cea9.html


Best never to get those symptoms.

I am normally annoyingly energetic. This weekend I was lathargic as tinnitus from Covid19 just wore me down. Now the healing, ironically, made it worse (I have had 1 dose of vaccine). While I will plow through, you don't want this.

I still cannot taste animal fat, including dairy. Butter and bacon are meh... Think about that. Hamburger and cheese is meh... I am lucky their. One of my cousins cannot taste food months later; to say the least, it is easy to meet a weight loss goal when food has no flavor except for a few intense spices.

One of my teenage nephews wakes up screaming at night from nerve pain due to covid-19. He is the captain of his high school football team and inherited the high family tolerance for pain.

A neighborhood child has inverted taste (all food tastes rotten).

So those complaining about worrying about the vaccine. Who do you personally know who had a bad side effect? Coronavirus killed a coworker, gave 3 heart attacks (including two who shouldn't have been at risk), scared the hell out of one coworkers lungs, and I personally know dozens of people fatigued from it.

I will take vaccine concerns seriously, but they are overplayed.

I am flying end of May. I will be fully vaccinated. A huge fraction won't be fully vaccinated. I won't worry about the unvaccinated except for special cases then. (I do assume children's vaccines are common then.)

Some high fraction of the population will not vaccinate. That means this virus will remain with us.

Lightsaber

And on the other hand I do not no anyone with any sort of long term effects, or anyone who has died. Anecdotes are terrible evidence

The amount of deaths and cases are well documented. Also the amount of people safely vaccinated is well document. This is excellent evidence.

Oh yeah they are. Which is why I couldn't care less about catching COVID. Your chances of dying are just too low to make it worth it and the "long term effects" are mostly so vague so as to either be psychological or just straight up attention seekers lying. Brain fog? Seriously? Anyone who claims to have brain fog has really just realized that they have always been stupid.

Continuous difficulty breathing? You know what else causes that? Anxiety. I was convinced I had Covid in march because I thought I struggled to breathe. It was literally just an anxiety attack. We won't know if the vaccines were truly safe until the long term. I definitely urge people who are at risk to COVID to get it, but I am going to pass for now. Not interested in paying money to get sick for two days
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5279
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:12 am

speedbird52 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
And on the other hand I do not no anyone with any sort of long term effects, or anyone who has died. Anecdotes are terrible evidence

The amount of deaths and cases are well documented. Also the amount of people safely vaccinated is well document. This is excellent evidence.

Oh yeah they are. Which is why I couldn't care less about catching COVID. Your chances of dying are just too low to make it worth it and the "long term effects" are mostly so vague so as to either be psychological or just straight up attention seekers lying. Brain fog? Seriously? Anyone who claims to have brain fog has really just realized that they have always been stupid.

Continuous difficulty breathing? You know what else causes that? Anxiety. I was convinced I had Covid in march because I thought I struggled to breathe. It was literally just an anxiety attack. We won't know if the vaccines were truly safe until the long term. I definitely urge people who are at risk to COVID to get it, but I am going to pass for now. Not interested in paying money to get sick for two days

The vaccine is free. The long term effects are well documented. You are simply choosing to be uneducated. I wouldn’t considered more dead Americans than ww2 a non event.
 
speedbird52
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:18 am

32andBelow wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
The amount of deaths and cases are well documented. Also the amount of people safely vaccinated is well document. This is excellent evidence.

Oh yeah they are. Which is why I couldn't care less about catching COVID. Your chances of dying are just too low to make it worth it and the "long term effects" are mostly so vague so as to either be psychological or just straight up attention seekers lying. Brain fog? Seriously? Anyone who claims to have brain fog has really just realized that they have always been stupid.

Continuous difficulty breathing? You know what else causes that? Anxiety. I was convinced I had Covid in march because I thought I struggled to breathe. It was literally just an anxiety attack. We won't know if the vaccines were truly safe until the long term. I definitely urge people who are at risk to COVID to get it, but I am going to pass for now. Not interested in paying money to get sick for two days

The vaccine is free. The long term effects are well documented. You are simply choosing to be uneducated. I wouldn’t considered more dead Americans than ww2 a non event.

Should I have phrased the deaths in units of 9/11s? Would that have been easier to understand? People die. in 2019 951 9/11s of people died in total. Kind of hard to document long term effects on a vaccine that has been barely available to the public.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5279
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:23 am

speedbird52 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
Oh yeah they are. Which is why I couldn't care less about catching COVID. Your chances of dying are just too low to make it worth it and the "long term effects" are mostly so vague so as to either be psychological or just straight up attention seekers lying. Brain fog? Seriously? Anyone who claims to have brain fog has really just realized that they have always been stupid.

Continuous difficulty breathing? You know what else causes that? Anxiety. I was convinced I had Covid in march because I thought I struggled to breathe. It was literally just an anxiety attack. We won't know if the vaccines were truly safe until the long term. I definitely urge people who are at risk to COVID to get it, but I am going to pass for now. Not interested in paying money to get sick for two days

The vaccine is free. The long term effects are well documented. You are simply choosing to be uneducated. I wouldn’t considered more dead Americans than ww2 a non event.

Should I have phrased the deaths in units of 9/11s? Would that have been easier to understand? People die. in 2019 951 9/11s of people died in total. Kind of hard to document long term effects on a vaccine that has been barely available to the public.

It’s 500,000 excess deaths. All your flus and whatever else is already accounted for. And what long term effects do you think there are going to be from the tiny amount of injected material? You act like the inventors don’t know what the ingredients are.
 
airtechy
Posts: 808
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:35 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:42 am

Eagleboy wrote:
Im cabin crew (flight attendant) with an European airline for the last 20+ years.
My contact has always the had the clause relating to "any vaccines for operation to certain destinations are required"


It would be interesting to know if a similar clause is included in the US airline contracts. Before COVID, it would not have been an issue. Now it is ... an issue.
It's hard for me to see how a crew flying to .. as an example Brazil .. would not be begging to get vaccinated especially considering how that country is handling the virus.
 
ABpositive
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:36 pm

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:29 am

In the USA, CDC advises on the recommended vaccine schedule for US citizens each year and requires certain vaccination criteria to be met by all new immigrants.
US military and most states' healthcare mandates this for their professionals. The Immunization Programs have evolved over decades as vaccines developed and COVID-19 is just another vaccine which will be added to it.

Additionally, there are existing legislations in place which can be leveraged, such as employer's obligations about the health and safety of employees.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 21728
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:10 am

32andBelow wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:

To the vaccine hesitant;
Vaccines prevent hospitalization, spread and severe symptoms.

The long haul symptoms seem to be nerve damage. That can be loss of taste, loss of smell, nerve pains.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020090 ... -survivors

People worry about rare or minor vaccine symptoms, the long haul symptoms are annoying:
https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Current-Resea ... ous-system

Vaccines help.symptom resolution:
https://www.wyomingnews.com/rocketminer ... 7cea9.html


Best never to get those symptoms.

I am normally annoyingly energetic. This weekend I was lathargic as tinnitus from Covid19 just wore me down. Now the healing, ironically, made it worse (I have had 1 dose of vaccine). While I will plow through, you don't want this.

I still cannot taste animal fat, including dairy. Butter and bacon are meh... Think about that. Hamburger and cheese is meh... I am lucky their. One of my cousins cannot taste food months later; to say the least, it is easy to meet a weight loss goal when food has no flavor except for a few intense spices.

One of my teenage nephews wakes up screaming at night from nerve pain due to covid-19. He is the captain of his high school football team and inherited the high family tolerance for pain.

A neighborhood child has inverted taste (all food tastes rotten).

So those complaining about worrying about the vaccine. Who do you personally know who had a bad side effect? Coronavirus killed a coworker, gave 3 heart attacks (including two who shouldn't have been at risk), scared the hell out of one coworkers lungs, and I personally know dozens of people fatigued from it.

I will take vaccine concerns seriously, but they are overplayed.

I am flying end of May. I will be fully vaccinated. A huge fraction won't be fully vaccinated. I won't worry about the unvaccinated except for special cases then. (I do assume children's vaccines are common then.)

Some high fraction of the population will not vaccinate. That means this virus will remain with us.

Lightsaber

And on the other hand I do not no anyone with any sort of long term effects, or anyone who has died. Anecdotes are terrible evidence

The amount of deaths and cases are well documented. Also the amount of people safely vaccinated is well document. This is excellent evidence.

The anecdotes match with the documented data.

The number safely vaccinated is impressive.
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Just as the number of cases:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I'm an engineer, not the most social person, yet I know hundreds of people who had coronavirus and many who have lingering side effects. Considering the huge fraction of the population who had coronavirus... I think anecdotes are trying up with evidence.

The main point is there is a risk not being vaccinated. Much more than the rare risks of vaccination.

Not being vaccinated impacts other people (more transmission). Vaccines reduce transmission 90% for mRNA:
https://www.verywellhealth.com/amp/cdc- ... es-5121080

Lightsaber
5 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 21728
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:37 am

For domestic flying, vaccines seem unlikely to be mandated. For international flying, highly likely:
https://www.aarp.org/travel/travel-tips ... ravel.html
COVID-19 vaccination may not be required to board domestic flights, however; Delta’s CEO, Ed Bastian, told the Today show that may be something exclusive to international travel, “whether the airlines do it or international authorities do it.” Even COVID-19 testing requirements, Bastian said in January, would be burdensome for domestic travel. Alaska Airlines has said it has no plans to require vaccinations and believes that things like universal mask-wearing and planes’ highly efficient HEPA filters are sufficient infection-prevention measures.

But the airline (along with American Airlines and a few others) has just begun using a mobile app called VeriFLY, that works like a health passport, allowing international visitors to verify that they’ve tested negative for COVID-19 — now required of all international airline passengers entering the U.S.


I would imagine that due to concerns about new varriants, all countries will require coronavirus vaccines to enter. In other words, you will not be able to pilot or crew an international flight without a vaccine.

The example was given of flying to Brazil above. That would be risky without a vaccine.

This could be an interesting way to secure a widebody job...

Lightsaber
5 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5279
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:48 am

The question is how do we get out of the mask mandates. I don’t see masks making it much pst Independence Day at this rate
 
berari
Posts: 921
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:03 am

Given how litigious the US people are, how long before a COVID infection traced back to a cabin crew member to make it mandatory at some airline?

As for the chap that says that he knows no one that has had long term effects or died, maybe his mind will change when someone close dies. My doctor died the other day of COVID. I know of a number of others that died, and others with 4 months in ICU followed by therapy, difficulties breathing, etc.
 
User avatar
NWAESC
Posts: 1688
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:43 am

speedbird52 wrote:
And on the other hand I do not know anyone with any sort of long term effects, or anyone who has died. Anecdotes are terrible evidence


Lucky you. I sincerely hope it stays that way. You're an exception and not the rule.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
KFTG
Posts: 925
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:59 am

DalDC9Bos wrote:
I see the fed govt in the US and similar countries stepping in soon and mandating vaccination for pilots and cabin crew. The feds would be protected by sovereign immunity from lawsuits and reiterate that aviation is a vital industry to interstate commerce and national interests.

No other justification or explanation would be needed at that point. Refuse a federal background check and you lose the job offer. Refuse a vaccine against a deadly pandemic and you lose your job. Choice is allowed, but results in termination. Thousands of unemployed who have been vaccinated would gladly take those positions.

1. Fully vaccinated here, 2 doses.
2. This is not the hill you want to die on; a gov't forcing its citizens (they work for us) to get a vaccine that is not fully-approved is a pandora's box you do not want to open.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9499
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:36 am

Vaccines can be mandated. By companies in regards to their employees. And especially in the USA the company has the right to do that. If you do not want to vaccinate work somewhere else.
Certain vaccines can be mandated for travel to certain countries. For example you have to be vaccinated against yellow fever to travel to certain countries.
Sometimes there is a difference between travel as a tourist or traveling to work in that country. The most vaccines I had to take, were against 9 different infectious diseases to install machinere on an Icelandic trawler build on an island in the Pear River, down river from Canton.

Anyway, anybody being able to get one of the covid vaccines and declines it, has to get his/her head examined. I live in the country with the lowest death rate in regards to infections and here still 0.46 % have died.
In the USA, if we look at the death toll from covid, 170 have died out of every 100.000, or 0.17 % of the whole population.
In regards to know infections, including people without symptoms, 1.8 % have died. That is still 18 times the death rate of influenza.
Counting the dead does not count the people having debilitating symptoms even after a mild bout of covid and we do not know the long term effects.

Whatever the risk of the covid vaccine, the risk of contracting covid is far greater. We should also think about new versions of covid, being both more infectious, leading to worse outcomes and being more dangerous also to younger persons. Like the South African variant or the Brasilian one.

I read a nice comparison that people here should understand. The added risk to you getting a blood clot after an AstraZeneca inoculation, is comparable to sitting through one long distance flight.
 
smokeybandit
Posts: 1501
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:24 pm

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:28 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Vaccines can be mandated. By companies in regards to their employees. And especially in the USA the company has the right to do that. If you do not want to vaccinate work somewhere else..


You can't do that for vaccines that are only available on emergency use terms though.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 21728
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:24 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Vaccines can be mandated. By companies in regards to their employees. And especially in the USA the company has the right to do that. If you do not want to vaccinate work somewhere else..


You can't do that for vaccines that are only available on emergency use terms though.

Agreed on the emergency terms. However, under emergency terms, travel may be limited to only the vaccinated. e.g., international travel I consider a given. The same with Hawaii. A few other states will probably require vaccines, but this is all pure speculation.

In this emergency, travel can be restricted on an emergency basis...

Lightsaber
5 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Will airlines require COVID vaccine for employees?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:27 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
I read a nice comparison that people here should understand. The added risk to you getting a blood clot after an AstraZeneca inoculation, is comparable to sitting through one long distance flight.

If you find the link, please share.

I am of the opinion AZ's clot risks can be mititgated (aspirin and light excercise).

Lightsaber
5 months without TV. The best decision of my life.

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