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TC957
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Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:40 pm

Reported on many aviation news outlets, such as here :
https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/s ... 57.article

Shall we wish them a succesful launch and long happy flying instead of the usual a-net negativity surrounding any long-haul LCC starting up ?
 
airsmiles
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:49 pm

It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:00 pm

People over profit and ex-Ryanair people? Something doesn't sound right there. Anyway, I wish them good luck, we need more airlines to soak up unemployed airline industry workers in Europe.

FYI, their website states it will be in an all-economy, single class layout.

airsmiles wrote:
It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.


To be fair though, none that aimed for this specific market (UK to India and Pakistan). Who knows, they might have found a niche that works.
 
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Polot
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:31 pm

I do not have particularly high hopes for an airline that has been trying to start for 5 years and is reliant on government funds to jumpstart new financing apparently. That means a lot of investors don’t have faith in the management and/or business plan.
 
debonair
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:40 pm

Any more information about the airframe, previous registration?!

I fear the airline will follow the long line of previous start-ups in this market like Air Sylhet plc, UK International Airlines Limited, SweFly or AirSlovakia aka Punjabi Express...

 
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Revelation
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:12 pm

Polot wrote:
I do not have particularly high hopes for an airline that has been trying to start for 5 years and is reliant on government funds to jumpstart new financing apparently. That means a lot of investors don’t have faith in the management and/or business plan.

The branding needs work too. I first read the title as "Flypoop". Besides, does "Fly" and "Pop" belong in the name together?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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proudavgeek
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:33 pm

TC957 wrote:
Reported on many aviation news outlets, such as here :
https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/s ... 57.article

Shall we wish them a succesful launch and long happy flying instead of the usual a-net negativity surrounding any long-haul LCC starting up ?


FWIW, I like their livery and wish them success
 
debonair
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:49 pm

Revelation wrote:
The branding needs work too. I first read the title as "Flypoop". Besides, does "Fly" and "Pop" belong in the name together?


It is very simple:
POP stands for people over profit; the “caring capitalist” airline plans to donate 51 per cent of profits to charities in both the UK and India.

https://www.flypop.com/16/232/trillion- ... e-to-india
 
f4f3a
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:04 pm

Nice idea and a niche market . I'm just wondering if it can turn a profit on these routes and whether sufficient demand Is there. Wish them all the best though. Assume they are in the process of applying for an AOC etc rather than wet leasing
 
Murcielago4me
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:12 pm

Cant say for other cities but nearby Pune is a huge automotive hub (Chakan, Pimpri), with even the Jaguar Land Rover plant.
Secondly, many people from Pune live in the UK or even in neighbouring EU. Mumbai being a two hour drive away with excellent road connectivity to Pune, it sounds like an interesting thought.

Still to fill an A330 everyweek (ofcourse wont be daily), I am not entirely sure.

Also several business travellers prefer non-economy seating, so its going to be interesting how the plans of this airline pan out.

All the very best to them from my side.

Cheers,
Nish
"Caution, Wake Turbulence"
 
fcogafa
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:13 pm

Americans will think it is an airline for fathers
 
Arion640
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:13 pm

A socialist airline. Well that’s interesting.
 
RR757
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:14 pm

VSMUT wrote:
People over profit and ex-Ryanair people? Something doesn't sound right there. Anyway, I wish them good luck, we need more airlines to soak up unemployed airline industry workers in Europe.

FYI, their website states it will be in an all-economy, single class layout.

airsmiles wrote:
It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.


To be fair though, none that aimed for this specific market (UK to India and Pakistan). Who knows, they might have found a niche that works.


I worked with POP’s CEO in his previous job role for nearly 2 decades. He is a kind, clever and decent person. He has a real passion to help people. After he left my firm I was surprised, but not at all shocked he set up the POP concept with some formal colleagues. I’m thrilled to hear this news. Good for him.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:41 pm

airsmiles wrote:
It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.

Interestingly in the mid-2000s I recall a similar refrain being used regarding LCCs owned by major carriers (BA’s Go! regularly being cited as a case-in-point), and Qantas’s Jetstar being written off as doomed to failure as a result. Subsequent history has shown otherwise.

Likewise, I think you’ll find long-haul LCCs will stick. Singapore Airlines’ Scoot for instance seems like it is in it for the, well, long haul. Whether this one is one of those or one that comes and goes, well that remains to be seen.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
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CrimsonNL
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:18 am

Will they serve soda on board?
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
tommy1808
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:53 am

VSMUT wrote:
airsmiles wrote:
It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.


To be fair though, none that aimed for this specific market (UK to India and Pakistan). Who knows, they might have found a niche that works.


and the whole long haul holiday airline business seems to somewhat work, and they are LCC in all but name. And the niche seems to be about right, large market, price sensitive.... i wonder if they go 9AB?

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:12 am

How will UK - South Asia be any different to Norwegian's failed attempts at UK - USA ? Fuel and aircraft cost the same as a network airline. Many of the advantages that LCCs have in short haul compared to network carriers, largely disappear when you look at long haul. Even worse, FlyPop has decided to voluntarily give up half its profits
Norwegian is by no means the only airline to try and fail at long-haul LCC. Norwegian did at least spend a lot of time building up experience and credibility in lower-risk short-haul before trying long haul

I know there's plenty of "well if X, Y and Z hadn't happened to Norwegian they would be fine", but even in 2019, Norwegian was losing huge amounts of money on long haul. Events X, Y and Z may not have been Norwegian's fault, but they still happened, and they still caused Norwegian to lose lots of money. I don't know what form they will take, but those unexpected X, Y and Z things will happen to FlyPop just as much as Norwegian.

I wish FlyPop well - but would have a lot more confidence if they started up by flying short haul in India
Last edited by davidjohnson6 on Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:19 am, edited 4 times in total.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:14 am

fcogafa wrote:
Americans will think it is an airline for fathers

I'm American and originally read the title of the thread as Flypoop.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
TC957
Topic Author
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:44 am

Will be interesting to see how the Flypop name blends itself to the minds of UK travellers.
I recall in one the of last series The Apprentice, candidates were given the task of creating an airline and one team did actually come up with that name for their creation, only to be rubbished by Lord Sugar !
 
moa999
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:06 am

I can see it may work for some secondary cities where the typical full service carrier model doesn't work due to lack of premium demand.

Remember Emirates had a small A380 fleet that has no F and a smaller J for this market.

But you're still fare capped to whatever the cost of a domestic flight to the nearest major hub is.
 
ELBOB
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:10 am

debonair wrote:

It is very simple:
POP stands for people over profit; the “caring capitalist” airline plans to donate 51 per cent of profits to charities in both the UK and India.

https://www.flypop.com/16/232/trillion- ... e-to-india


Considering profit is what's left over after you've paid salaries, leasing costs, catering, maintenance, fleet renewal, advertising, lead acquisition, bank interest, IT, capital outlay.... what's happening to the other 49%?
 
VSMUT
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:48 am

tommy1808 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
airsmiles wrote:
It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.


To be fair though, none that aimed for this specific market (UK to India and Pakistan). Who knows, they might have found a niche that works.


and the whole long haul holiday airline business seems to somewhat work, and they are LCC in all but name. And the niche seems to be about right, large market, price sensitive.... i wonder if they go 9AB?

best regards
Thomas


Looks like 8-abreast in the rendering on their website.

Image
 
Antarius
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:22 pm

airsmiles wrote:
It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.


Who's succeeded?

I can't think of one that's managed to pull this off.
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
Antarius
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:24 pm

VSMUT wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

To be fair though, none that aimed for this specific market (UK to India and Pakistan). Who knows, they might have found a niche that works.


and the whole long haul holiday airline business seems to somewhat work, and they are LCC in all but name. And the niche seems to be about right, large market, price sensitive.... i wonder if they go 9AB?

best regards
Thomas


Looks like 8-abreast in the rendering on their website.

Image


Did the a330ceo inherit the new interior design from the a350 (and the a330neo potentially? Never been on the latter).

Or is this just a rendering with the latest interiors.
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
VSMUT
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:29 pm

Antarius wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

and the whole long haul holiday airline business seems to somewhat work, and they are LCC in all but name. And the niche seems to be about right, large market, price sensitive.... i wonder if they go 9AB?

best regards
Thomas


Looks like 8-abreast in the rendering on their website.

Image


Did the a330ceo inherit the new interior design from the a350 (and the a330neo potentially? Never been on the latter).

Or is this just a rendering with the latest interiors.


Airbus did update the interior for the A330neo, but I'm not quite sure what you are referring to in this render. It looks like a bog standard A330 economy class. Compare with this KLM A330-200 in 2005:

Image
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:33 pm

POP stands for people over profit; the “caring capitalist” airline plans to donate 51 per cent of profits to charities in both the UK and India.


I wish them luck with that idea, but... Assuming they're profitable and survive for any significant length of time, I must wonder what will happen to that 51% when their employees want raises, the price of fuel rises, pricy regulatory issues intrude and so on. Keeping a nice war chest of past profit in the bank to cover down periods is a must in the capital intensive airline industry, especially when variable costs suddenly hit home. At some point, potential future investors may very well desire and demand a larger ROI than they're getting with over half of the profit going out of the door. Truly, I wish Flypop the very best of luck. I'm just not sure that the business model is sustainable in the long term.
 
airsmiles
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:39 pm

Antarius wrote:
airsmiles wrote:
It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.


Who's succeeded?

I can't think of one that's managed to pull this off.


I do have much sympathy with that view, but I was giving the benefit of doubt to airlines like Scoot and Jetstar. However, are they really LCC in their business model and their Singapore/Qantas parent companies could rule them out of the comparison. Certainly new start-up long-haul LCC airlines have a long list of past failures.
 
Antarius
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:45 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Antarius wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

Looks like 8-abreast in the rendering on their website.

Image


Did the a330ceo inherit the new interior design from the a350 (and the a330neo potentially? Never been on the latter).

Or is this just a rendering with the latest interiors.


Airbus did update the interior for the A330neo, but I'm not quite sure what you are referring to in this render. It looks like a bog standard A330 economy class. Compare with this KLM A330-200 in 2005:

Image


The underlit channel on the overhead bins is what I noticed. That's something that I'm used to seeing on the a350 but not the a330ceo. So was wondering if that was now available on the ceo or if it's just a rendering.

I haven't been on an a330neo yet, so can't offer that in comparison.
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
Antarius
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:48 pm

airsmiles wrote:
Antarius wrote:
airsmiles wrote:
It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.


Who's succeeded?

I can't think of one that's managed to pull this off.


I do have much sympathy with that view, but I was giving the benefit of doubt to airlines like Scoot and Jetstar. However, are they really LCC in their business model and their Singapore/Qantas parent companies could rule them out of the comparison. Certainly new start-up long-haul LCC airlines have a long list of past failures.


Fair enough. I don't think having some longhaul LCC is doomed to fail, but having entirely longhaul LCC is.

Scoot will end up with 80 narrow bodies and 25 wide-bodies for example.
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
VSMUT
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:14 pm

Antarius wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Antarius wrote:

Did the a330ceo inherit the new interior design from the a350 (and the a330neo potentially? Never been on the latter).

Or is this just a rendering with the latest interiors.


Airbus did update the interior for the A330neo, but I'm not quite sure what you are referring to in this render. It looks like a bog standard A330 economy class. Compare with this KLM A330-200 in 2005:

Image


The underlit channel on the overhead bins is what I noticed. That's something that I'm used to seeing on the a350 but not the a330ceo. So was wondering if that was now available on the ceo or if it's just a rendering.

I haven't been on an a330neo yet, so can't offer that in comparison.


AFAIK, mood lighting is offered as a retrofit for older aircraft (A330s as well as other types).

At the end of the day it is probably just a random render they used, so who knows what the final cabin will look like. Maybe they have been in discussions with Airbus for an A330neo at some point, and Airbus provided them with some cabin renders that they just kept using. That isn't unheard of. If they are really a low cost carrier, I'll bet they aren't making too many changes to whatever the second hand aircraft is already fitted with. In other words, if the aircraft is ex-Singapore Airlines, it will be whatever Singapore fitted it with, with new seats, carpets and curtains.
 
ZazuPIT
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:19 pm

debonair wrote:
Revelation wrote:
The branding needs work too. I first read the title as "Flypoop". Besides, does "Fly" and "Pop" belong in the name together?


It is very simple:
POP stands for people over profit; the “caring capitalist” airline plans to donate 51 per cent of profits to charities in both the UK and India.

https://www.flypop.com/16/232/trillion- ... e-to-india


Yeah, but realistically how many people are going to know what POP stands for? It sounds like a cheesy pop-culture (no pun intended) name some junior ad agency intern came up with. Then again, it's an LCC so the name may hit the target audience. Just doesn't work at all for me.
 
sand26391
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:31 pm

I think it may worknout well (in terms of pax numbers) for CCU, ATQ. Not sure about PNQ handling A330?
 
Antarius
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:00 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Antarius wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

Airbus did update the interior for the A330neo, but I'm not quite sure what you are referring to in this render. It looks like a bog standard A330 economy class. Compare with this KLM A330-200 in 2005:

Image


The underlit channel on the overhead bins is what I noticed. That's something that I'm used to seeing on the a350 but not the a330ceo. So was wondering if that was now available on the ceo or if it's just a rendering.

I haven't been on an a330neo yet, so can't offer that in comparison.


AFAIK, mood lighting is offered as a retrofit for older aircraft (A330s as well as other types).

At the end of the day it is probably just a random render they used, so who knows what the final cabin will look like. Maybe they have been in discussions with Airbus for an A330neo at some point, and Airbus provided them with some cabin renders that they just kept using. That isn't unheard of. If they are really a low cost carrier, I'll bet they aren't making too many changes to whatever the second hand aircraft is already fitted with. In other words, if the aircraft is ex-Singapore Airlines, it will be whatever Singapore fitted it with, with new seats, carpets and curtains.


Gotcha. Makes sense.
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
Antarius
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:00 pm

ZazuPIT wrote:
debonair wrote:
Revelation wrote:
The branding needs work too. I first read the title as "Flypoop". Besides, does "Fly" and "Pop" belong in the name together?


It is very simple:
POP stands for people over profit; the “caring capitalist” airline plans to donate 51 per cent of profits to charities in both the UK and India.

https://www.flypop.com/16/232/trillion- ... e-to-india


Yeah, but realistically how many people are going to know what POP stands for? It sounds like a cheesy pop-culture (no pun intended) name some junior ad agency intern came up with. Then again, it's an LCC so the name may hit the target audience. Just doesn't work at all for me.


One might call the acronym POP..... Corny

I'll show myself out.
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
debonair
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:51 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Looks like 8-abreast in the rendering on their website.

Image


Seems pretty comfy, but I am still puzzled about the airframe. Any thoughts about the history of the jet? Strange that the airline as true low-cost not to choose 3-3-3 seating...
 
IrishLessor
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:41 am

Flypop

Long haul low cost as many have said is not proven and with a long list of casualties in this category the odds will be stacked against it from the get to.

Long haul needs a business cabin. Even MOL recognises that a long haul airline needs a business cabin to attract higher spend and business travel. Not only does this bring higher fares in, traditionally it subsidises the economy cabin and allows an airline to be price competitive in economy cabin pricing. There is also the element of seasonality, business travel brings a reliable pipeline of revenue year round, something Norwegian LH lacked. This sounds like a VFR orientated airline with a very price conscious client.

Branding. The brand as another contributor suggested was mentioned on the popular TV show in the UK. As I recall the panel of industry experts were all negative about the brand. They could have been more creative.

Scale. Beyond these very niche routes what's left that is uncontested by bigger carriers? An airline needs scale to cover fixed costs such as its management and Head Office function. Scale reduces unit costs.

Didn't Bmi and British Mediterranean fly at least one of these routes? They had a business cabin, a well established premium brand and has network connectivity through their respective networks (BD/BA).

Best wishes to all concerned.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Flypop secures A330 leases for start-up.

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:30 am

TC957 wrote:
Reported on many aviation news outlets, such as here :
https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/s ... 57.article


They will get a hearty welcome to India. SpiceJet and IndiGo will likely roll out the red (and Blue) carpet for them. :stirthepot:

They might be able to sustain flights from the UK to Pakistan, though.

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