Reported on many aviation news outlets, such as here :
https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/s ... 57.article

Shall we wish them a succesful launch and long happy flying instead of the usual a-net negativity surrounding any long-haul LCC starting up ?

It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.

People over profit and ex-Ryanair people? Something doesn't sound right there. Anyway, I wish them good luck, we need more airlines to soak up unemployed airline industry workers in Europe.

FYI, their website states it will be in an all-economy, single class layout.

airsmiles wrote:

It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.

To be fair though, none that aimed for this specific market (UK to India and Pakistan). Who knows, they might have found a niche that works.

I do not have particularly high hopes for an airline that has been trying to start for 5 years and is reliant on government funds to jumpstart new financing apparently. That means a lot of investors don’t have faith in the management and/or business plan.

Any more information about the airframe, previous registration?!

I fear the airline will follow the long line of previous start-ups in this market like Air Sylhet plc, UK International Airlines Limited, SweFly or AirSlovakia aka Punjabi Express...

Polot wrote:

I do not have particularly high hopes for an airline that has been trying to start for 5 years and is reliant on government funds to jumpstart new financing apparently. That means a lot of investors don’t have faith in the management and/or business plan.

The branding needs work too. I first read the title as "Flypoop". Besides, does "Fly" and "Pop" belong in the name together?

TC957 wrote:

Reported on many aviation news outlets, such as here :
https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/s ... 57.article

Shall we wish them a succesful launch and long happy flying instead of the usual a-net negativity surrounding any long-haul LCC starting up ?

FWIW, I like their livery and wish them success

Revelation wrote:

The branding needs work too. I first read the title as "Flypoop". Besides, does "Fly" and "Pop" belong in the name together?

It is very simple:
POP stands for people over profit; the “caring capitalist” airline plans to donate 51 per cent of profits to charities in both the UK and India.

https://www.flypop.com/16/232/trillion- ... e-to-india

Nice idea and a niche market . I'm just wondering if it can turn a profit on these routes and whether sufficient demand Is there. Wish them all the best though. Assume they are in the process of applying for an AOC etc rather than wet leasing

Cant say for other cities but nearby Pune is a huge automotive hub (Chakan, Pimpri), with even the Jaguar Land Rover plant.
Secondly, many people from Pune live in the UK or even in neighbouring EU. Mumbai being a two hour drive away with excellent road connectivity to Pune, it sounds like an interesting thought.

Still to fill an A330 everyweek (ofcourse wont be daily), I am not entirely sure.

Also several business travellers prefer non-economy seating, so its going to be interesting how the plans of this airline pan out.

All the very best to them from my side.

Cheers,
Nish

Americans will think it is an airline for fathers

VSMUT wrote:

People over profit and ex-Ryanair people? Something doesn't sound right there. Anyway, I wish them good luck, we need more airlines to soak up unemployed airline industry workers in Europe.

FYI, their website states it will be in an all-economy, single class layout.

airsmiles wrote:

It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.

To be fair though, none that aimed for this specific market (UK to India and Pakistan). Who knows, they might have found a niche that works.

I worked with POP’s CEO in his previous job role for nearly 2 decades. He is a kind, clever and decent person. He has a real passion to help people. After he left my firm I was surprised, but not at all shocked he set up the POP concept with some formal colleagues. I’m thrilled to hear this news. Good for him.

airsmiles wrote:

It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.

Interestingly in the mid-2000s I recall a similar refrain being used regarding LCCs owned by major carriers (BA’s Go! regularly being cited as a case-in-point), and Qantas’s Jetstar being written off as doomed to failure as a result. Subsequent history has shown otherwise.

Likewise, I think you’ll find long-haul LCCs will stick. Singapore Airlines’ Scoot for instance seems like it is in it for the, well, long haul. Whether this one is one of those or one that comes and goes, well that remains to be seen.

V/F

VSMUT wrote:

airsmiles wrote:

It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.

To be fair though, none that aimed for this specific market (UK to India and Pakistan). Who knows, they might have found a niche that works.

and the whole long haul holiday airline business seems to somewhat work, and they are LCC in all but name. And the niche seems to be about right, large market, price sensitive.... i wonder if they go 9AB?

best regards
Thomas

How will UK - South Asia be any different to Norwegian's failed attempts at UK - USA ? Fuel and aircraft cost the same as a network airline. Many of the advantages that LCCs have in short haul compared to network carriers, largely disappear when you look at long haul. Even worse, FlyPop has decided to voluntarily give up half its profits
Norwegian is by no means the only airline to try and fail at long-haul LCC. Norwegian did at least spend a lot of time building up experience and credibility in lower-risk short-haul before trying long haul

I know there's plenty of "well if X, Y and Z hadn't happened to Norwegian they would be fine", but even in 2019, Norwegian was losing huge amounts of money on long haul. Events X, Y and Z may not have been Norwegian's fault, but they still happened, and they still caused Norwegian to lose lots of money. I don't know what form they will take, but those unexpected X, Y and Z things will happen to FlyPop just as much as Norwegian.

I wish FlyPop well - but would have a lot more confidence if they started up by flying short haul in India

fcogafa wrote:

Americans will think it is an airline for fathers

I'm American and originally read the title of the thread as Flypoop.

I can see it may work for some secondary cities where the typical full service carrier model doesn't work due to lack of premium demand.

Remember Emirates had a small A380 fleet that has no F and a smaller J for this market.

But you're still fare capped to whatever the cost of a domestic flight to the nearest major hub is.

debonair wrote:

It is very simple:
POP stands for people over profit; the “caring capitalist” airline plans to donate 51 per cent of profits to charities in both the UK and India.

https://www.flypop.com/16/232/trillion- ... e-to-india

Considering profit is what's left over after you've paid salaries, leasing costs, catering, maintenance, fleet renewal, advertising, lead acquisition, bank interest, IT, capital outlay.... what's happening to the other 49%?

tommy1808 wrote:

VSMUT wrote:

airsmiles wrote:

It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.

To be fair though, none that aimed for this specific market (UK to India and Pakistan). Who knows, they might have found a niche that works.

and the whole long haul holiday airline business seems to somewhat work, and they are LCC in all but name. And the niche seems to be about right, large market, price sensitive.... i wonder if they go 9AB?

best regards
Thomas

Looks like 8-abreast in the rendering on their website.

airsmiles wrote:

It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.

Who's succeeded?

I can't think of one that's managed to pull this off.

VSMUT wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

VSMUT wrote:

To be fair though, none that aimed for this specific market (UK to India and Pakistan). Who knows, they might have found a niche that works.

and the whole long haul holiday airline business seems to somewhat work, and they are LCC in all but name. And the niche seems to be about right, large market, price sensitive.... i wonder if they go 9AB?

best regards
Thomas

Looks like 8-abreast in the rendering on their website.

Did the a330ceo inherit the new interior design from the a350 (and the a330neo potentially? Never been on the latter).

Or is this just a rendering with the latest interiors.

Antarius wrote:

VSMUT wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

and the whole long haul holiday airline business seems to somewhat work, and they are LCC in all but name. And the niche seems to be about right, large market, price sensitive.... i wonder if they go 9AB?

best regards
Thomas

Looks like 8-abreast in the rendering on their website.

Did the a330ceo inherit the new interior design from the a350 (and the a330neo potentially? Never been on the latter).

Or is this just a rendering with the latest interiors.

Airbus did update the interior for the A330neo, but I'm not quite sure what you are referring to in this render. It looks like a bog standard A330 economy class. Compare with this KLM A330-200 in 2005:

POP stands for people over profit; the “caring capitalist” airline plans to donate 51 per cent of profits to charities in both the UK and India.

I wish them luck with that idea, but... Assuming they're profitable and survive for any significant length of time, I must wonder what will happen to that 51% when their employees want raises, the price of fuel rises, pricy regulatory issues intrude and so on. Keeping a nice war chest of past profit in the bank to cover down periods is a must in the capital intensive airline industry, especially when variable costs suddenly hit home. At some point, potential future investors may very well desire and demand a larger ROI than they're getting with over half of the profit going out of the door. Truly, I wish Flypop the very best of luck. I'm just not sure that the business model is sustainable in the long term.

Antarius wrote:

airsmiles wrote:

It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.

Who's succeeded?

I can't think of one that's managed to pull this off.

I do have much sympathy with that view, but I was giving the benefit of doubt to airlines like Scoot and Jetstar. However, are they really LCC in their business model and their Singapore/Qantas parent companies could rule them out of the comparison. Certainly new start-up long-haul LCC airlines have a long list of past failures.

VSMUT wrote:

Antarius wrote:

VSMUT wrote:

Looks like 8-abreast in the rendering on their website.

Did the a330ceo inherit the new interior design from the a350 (and the a330neo potentially? Never been on the latter).

Or is this just a rendering with the latest interiors.

Airbus did update the interior for the A330neo, but I'm not quite sure what you are referring to in this render. It looks like a bog standard A330 economy class. Compare with this KLM A330-200 in 2005:

The underlit channel on the overhead bins is what I noticed. That's something that I'm used to seeing on the a350 but not the a330ceo. So was wondering if that was now available on the ceo or if it's just a rendering.

I haven't been on an a330neo yet, so can't offer that in comparison.

airsmiles wrote:

Antarius wrote:

airsmiles wrote:

It’s not negativity, but realism. Long-haul LCC has a proven track record of almost zero success in the long-term.

Who's succeeded?

I can't think of one that's managed to pull this off.

I do have much sympathy with that view, but I was giving the benefit of doubt to airlines like Scoot and Jetstar. However, are they really LCC in their business model and their Singapore/Qantas parent companies could rule them out of the comparison. Certainly new start-up long-haul LCC airlines have a long list of past failures.

Fair enough. I don't think having some longhaul LCC is doomed to fail, but having entirely longhaul LCC is.

Scoot will end up with 80 narrow bodies and 25 wide-bodies for example.

Antarius wrote:

VSMUT wrote:

Antarius wrote:

Did the a330ceo inherit the new interior design from the a350 (and the a330neo potentially? Never been on the latter).

Or is this just a rendering with the latest interiors.

Airbus did update the interior for the A330neo, but I'm not quite sure what you are referring to in this render. It looks like a bog standard A330 economy class. Compare with this KLM A330-200 in 2005:

The underlit channel on the overhead bins is what I noticed. That's something that I'm used to seeing on the a350 but not the a330ceo. So was wondering if that was now available on the ceo or if it's just a rendering.

I haven't been on an a330neo yet, so can't offer that in comparison.

AFAIK, mood lighting is offered as a retrofit for older aircraft (A330s as well as other types).

At the end of the day it is probably just a random render they used, so who knows what the final cabin will look like. Maybe they have been in discussions with Airbus for an A330neo at some point, and Airbus provided them with some cabin renders that they just kept using. That isn't unheard of. If they are really a low cost carrier, I'll bet they aren't making too many changes to whatever the second hand aircraft is already fitted with. In other words, if the aircraft is ex-Singapore Airlines, it will be whatever Singapore fitted it with, with new seats, carpets and curtains.

debonair wrote:

Revelation wrote:

The branding needs work too. I first read the title as "Flypoop". Besides, does "Fly" and "Pop" belong in the name together?

It is very simple:
POP stands for people over profit; the “caring capitalist” airline plans to donate 51 per cent of profits to charities in both the UK and India.

https://www.flypop.com/16/232/trillion- ... e-to-india

Yeah, but realistically how many people are going to know what POP stands for? It sounds like a cheesy pop-culture (no pun intended) name some junior ad agency intern came up with. Then again, it's an LCC so the name may hit the target audience. Just doesn't work at all for me.

I think it may worknout well (in terms of pax numbers) for CCU, ATQ. Not sure about PNQ handling A330?

VSMUT wrote:

Antarius wrote:

VSMUT wrote:

Airbus did update the interior for the A330neo, but I'm not quite sure what you are referring to in this render. It looks like a bog standard A330 economy class. Compare with this KLM A330-200 in 2005:

The underlit channel on the overhead bins is what I noticed. That's something that I'm used to seeing on the a350 but not the a330ceo. So was wondering if that was now available on the ceo or if it's just a rendering.

I haven't been on an a330neo yet, so can't offer that in comparison.

AFAIK, mood lighting is offered as a retrofit for older aircraft (A330s as well as other types).

At the end of the day it is probably just a random render they used, so who knows what the final cabin will look like. Maybe they have been in discussions with Airbus for an A330neo at some point, and Airbus provided them with some cabin renders that they just kept using. That isn't unheard of. If they are really a low cost carrier, I'll bet they aren't making too many changes to whatever the second hand aircraft is already fitted with. In other words, if the aircraft is ex-Singapore Airlines, it will be whatever Singapore fitted it with, with new seats, carpets and curtains.

Gotcha. Makes sense.

ZazuPIT wrote:

debonair wrote:

Revelation wrote:

The branding needs work too. I first read the title as "Flypoop". Besides, does "Fly" and "Pop" belong in the name together?

It is very simple:
POP stands for people over profit; the “caring capitalist” airline plans to donate 51 per cent of profits to charities in both the UK and India.

https://www.flypop.com/16/232/trillion- ... e-to-india

Yeah, but realistically how many people are going to know what POP stands for? It sounds like a cheesy pop-culture (no pun intended) name some junior ad agency intern came up with. Then again, it's an LCC so the name may hit the target audience. Just doesn't work at all for me.

One might call the acronym POP..... Corny

I'll show myself out.

VSMUT wrote:

Looks like 8-abreast in the rendering on their website.

Seems pretty comfy, but I am still puzzled about the airframe. Any thoughts about the history of the jet? Strange that the airline as true low-cost not to choose 3-3-3 seating...

Flypop

Long haul low cost as many have said is not proven and with a long list of casualties in this category the odds will be stacked against it from the get to.

Long haul needs a business cabin. Even MOL recognises that a long haul airline needs a business cabin to attract higher spend and business travel. Not only does this bring higher fares in, traditionally it subsidises the economy cabin and allows an airline to be price competitive in economy cabin pricing. There is also the element of seasonality, business travel brings a reliable pipeline of revenue year round, something Norwegian LH lacked. This sounds like a VFR orientated airline with a very price conscious client.

Branding. The brand as another contributor suggested was mentioned on the popular TV show in the UK. As I recall the panel of industry experts were all negative about the brand. They could have been more creative.

Scale. Beyond these very niche routes what's left that is uncontested by bigger carriers? An airline needs scale to cover fixed costs such as its management and Head Office function. Scale reduces unit costs.

Didn't Bmi and British Mediterranean fly at least one of these routes? They had a business cabin, a well established premium brand and has network connectivity through their respective networks (BD/BA).

Best wishes to all concerned.

TC957 wrote:

Reported on many aviation news outlets, such as here :
https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/s ... 57.article

They will get a hearty welcome to India. SpiceJet and IndiGo will likely roll out the red (and Blue) carpet for them.

They might be able to sustain flights from the UK to Pakistan, though.

Flypop has selected London Stansted for their base.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... h-uk-base/

> Destinations: Ahmedabad, Amritsar, Bangalore, Chennai, Goa, Hyderabad, Kochi, Kolkata, Lucknow and Pune.
> Received investment from the UK government’s Future Fund.
> Has signed a “multiple aircraft A330-300 lease deal” with Avolon.
> First flights expected to commence by October 2021.

News Update: First A330-300 being painted now

https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/1st- ... UlmkLt2P1s

Ex-Cebu Pacific MSN 1435 RP-C3342

I think RP-C3342 is MSN 1445.

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:

News Update: First A330-300 being painted now

https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/1st- ... UlmkLt2P1s

Ex-Cebu Pacific MSN 1435 RP-C3342

DarQuiet wrote:

I think RP-C3342 is MSN 1445.

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:

News Update: First A330-300 being painted now

https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/1st- ... UlmkLt2P1s

Ex-Cebu Pacific MSN 1435 RP-C3342

I do too. I think the flypop press release is wrong.

So, will flypop also be getting msn 1420, ex-RP-C3341?

And will they be keeping Cebu's high density seating?!

They have redesigned their website, with upcoming routes to India almost certain such as ATQ, Goa, CCU and 1 more Indian destination. Approvals for BLR, MAA & other IND cities has been applied, I believe.

It looks like their IFE supplier will be BlueBox, a wireless/streaming solution and will allow people to order from their devices.
They don't mention a seat count on their website, but do say they are an all Economy airline. If their first aircraft is from Cebu Pacific, it would have had 436 seats in its previous life and no integrated IFE. Given that POP is a low-cost airline, catering mainly for VFR on price-sensitive routes, I can see that configuration being attractive to them.
Maybe they will offer a kind of Euro-Business class with a middle seat blocked, baggage and meals included? I don't think I would book on a 3-3-3 A330 UK-India flight myself. It just too little space on a flight of that length. That said, Monarch and Britannia did fly similar A330s and 767s from the UK to Goa for many years.

DarQuiet wrote:

I think RP-C3342 is MSN 1445.

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:

News Update: First A330-300 being painted now

https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/1st- ... UlmkLt2P1s

Ex-Cebu Pacific MSN 1435 RP-C3342

Yes it is. Typo from my end . Updated the article stating 1445.

Cheers!

First Flypop A330 will be registered G-FPOP and has had it's customer acceptance flight in CAN after painting.

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:

Flypop has selected London Stansted for their base.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... h-uk-base/

> Destinations: Ahmedabad, Amritsar, Bangalore, Chennai, Goa, Hyderabad, Kochi, Kolkata, Lucknow and Pune.
> Received investment from the UK government’s Future Fund.
> Has signed a “multiple aircraft A330-300 lease deal” with Avolon.
> First flights expected to commence by October 2021.

I wish them luck. All seem to be in range of newer (higher MTOW) A333 which should be quite available now at reasonable lease rates.

What will attract higher yield passengers? There is something I am missing from their business strategy.

Revelation wrote:

The branding needs work too. I first read the title as "Flypoop". Besides, does "Fly" and "Pop" belong in the name together?

That stuck in my head. I was thinking soda... So ummm... thank you.... not!

Lightsaber

Revelation wrote:

The branding needs work too. I first read the title as "Flypoop".

PM wrote:

And will they be keeping Cebu's high density seating?!

That's likely (perhaps with a few minor changes) considering it will also be another LCC operating those.

TC957 wrote:

First Flypop A330 will be registered G-FPOP and has had it's customer acceptance flight in CAN after painting.

Good to know that the sardine cans won't be recycled into soda cans anytime soon.

lightsaber wrote:

All seem to be in range of newer (higher MTOW) A333 which should be quite available now at reasonable lease rates.

Avolon must have offered the 436-seat ex-5J A330s at a very good rate to be placed relatively quickly.

According to an IG post, Flypop is also scheduled to take MSN 1420 ex-5J RP-C3341. Currently with her sister MSN 1445 at CAN in all white livery after MRO activity.

As for the name of the airlines, FlyPOP stands for People Over Profit.

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:

According to an IG post, Flypop is also scheduled to take MSN 1420 ex-5J RP-C3341. Currently with her sister MSN 1445 at CAN in all white livery after MRO activity.

As for the name of the airlines, FlyPOP stands for People Over Profit.

If you are flying a 9 abreast A330, then it is definitely profit over people.

jeffrey0032j wrote:

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:

According to an IG post, Flypop is also scheduled to take MSN 1420 ex-5J RP-C3341. Currently with her sister MSN 1445 at CAN in all white livery after MRO activity.

As for the name of the airlines, FlyPOP stands for People Over Profit.

If you are flying a 9 abreast A330, then it is definitely profit over people.

Well, to fypop's credit, they are low-cost and intend to provide these services to the diaspora for a fraction of the cost of existing carriers. What would truly be profit over people is a "full-service" carrier charging full-service prices and flying a nine-abreast A330.

Flypop using frame with passengers seats take out for cargo only flights as the passenger flying is on pause.

https://aircargoworld.com/news/carriers ... y-flights/

So they have to change their marketing, definitely PROFIT over PEOPLE...

TC957 wrote:

First Flypop A330 will be registered G-FPOP and has had it's customer acceptance flight in CAN after painting.

It's now been re-registered as '9H-POP' and being operated by Hi Fly Malta. Presumably Pop is just using their AOC until they get their own