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AmericanAir88
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Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

KLAS Terminal and Future Discussion

Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:13 am

LAS is huge for low cost carriers as it harbors NK, F9, and G4. Of course WN is also a fortress there. However, I would like to discuss internal and external operations with the airport.

F9 and B6 in particular have been adding several flights to LAS. F9 adding from Little Rock and Durango, while B6 goes after RDU and California markets.

LAS utilizes two terminals with a shared satellite. (D Gates). Terminal One seems to be the more central base as it houses WN, G4, and NK. It also has two legacies (AA and DL). Personally, T1 is substantially better than T3. The baggage claim is sick at T1 and the terminal is very Vegas. T3 feels like any other airport and is often empty (E gates aren’t being used right now)

My question is, why isn’t F9 using T1? AA and DL get T1 permissions, but UA and F9 do not? Is there an explanation? Why would F9 not want to fly out of T1? B6 and even UA makes sense at T3 due to lower capacity, but was there a negotiation on which airlines get what terminal? Why wasn’t T3 international only?

Any future expansion plans for LAS? I could potentially see “F Gates” attaching via tram to T3 and then the D gates being given entirely to T1.

Anyway, LAS is an interesting place. The terminal delegation has always puzzled me and I really wonder how well F9 and B6 do on those dartboard routes. Any answers or other discussions would be appreciated
 
DL777200LR
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:15 am

Re: KLAS Terminal and Future Discussion

Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:26 am

They need to open up E gates already, D gates are getting overcrowded with the increase in flights.
 
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eta unknown
Posts: 3162
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: KLAS Terminal and Future Discussion

Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:46 am

It's part passenger numbers and carrier size. An airline like F9 doesn't have the same clout to refuse to move. As for CO/UA (had they already merged?) maybe they needed the T3 space to expand. IIRC the only disagreement was with HA when they still operated from the old international terminal- they refused to move to Terminal 1 as the fees were higher. I notice the OP uses the word "permissions"... when talking about Terminal 1 as if it's the holy grail- this is only a personal opinion. I prefer Terminal 3.
 
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chunhimlai
Posts: 748
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:03 am

Re: KLAS Terminal and Future Discussion

Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:28 am

Another option is to expand VGT with 3000m+ runway and new terminal building to serve 15-20M pax
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2557
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: KLAS Terminal and Future Discussion

Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:32 pm

The problem with LAS is the Airport leadership. They treat everyone poorly and lack growth opportunity through a visionary mindset. They treat all the airlines like a slum lord in a desired location if your not happy then leave we will easily fill your void with someone else.
When they torn down the old international terminal could have set in motion to rebuild and replace badly outdated A,B,C gates.
But instead they chose to repaint,replace carpet, change food
Vendors and add 1000 more slot machines in passenger seating areas.

Flyguy
 
acecrackshot
Posts: 215
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:22 am

Re: KLAS Terminal and Future Discussion

Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:32 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
Another option is to expand VGT with 3000m+ runway and new terminal building to serve 15-20M pax


Airport expansion is an enormously expensive and tediously long process.

It probably would be easier to make Nellis a freight only reliever.

Seriously.
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 2078
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: KLAS Terminal and Future Discussion

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:40 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:

LAS utilizes two terminals with a shared satellite. (D Gates). Terminal One seems to be the more central base as it houses WN, G4, and NK. It also has two legacies (AA and DL). Personally, T1 is substantially better than T3. The baggage claim is sick at T1 and the terminal is very Vegas. T3 feels like any other airport and is often empty (E gates aren’t being used right now)


I'll add that the T1 landside facilities are grossly underutilized (pre-COVID), even as a destination that should see larger check-in baggage usage. I see scores of empty ticket counters there, but perhaps they'll have more occupancy once the proposed satellite facility at the old int'l T2 takes shape. Were these counter spaces ever completely full post-1980's expansion/pre-T3?

Agree on the T1 baggage claim look, what a way to welcome someone to Vegas!

AmericanAir88 wrote:
Any future expansion plans for LAS? I could potentially see “F Gates” attaching via tram to T3 and then the D gates being given entirely to T1.


Where would this theoretical "F" gates be located? To the east of the D gates where the RON parking is now?

Also note said planned satellite facility where the old int'l T2 was located, similar to C gates.

wnflyguy wrote:
The problem with LAS is the Airport leadership. They treat everyone poorly and lack growth opportunity through a visionary mindset. They treat all the airlines like a slum lord in a desired location if your not happy then leave we will easily fill your void with someone else.
When they torn down the old international terminal could have set in motion to rebuild and replace badly outdated A,B,C gates.
But instead they chose to repaint,replace carpet, change food
Vendors and add 1000 more slot machines in passenger seating areas.

Flyguy


Maybe it's just me, but I like the charm of renovating an older facility, and I think LAS did a decent job with the banjo gates. Keeps that classic Vegas look while adding modernizing touches.
 
AmericanAir88
Topic Author
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: KLAS Terminal and Future Discussion

Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:15 pm

eta unknown wrote:
It's part passenger numbers and carrier size. An airline like F9 doesn't have the same clout to refuse to move. As for CO/UA (had they already merged?) maybe they needed the T3 space to expand. IIRC the only disagreement was with HA when they still operated from the old international terminal- they refused to move to Terminal 1 as the fees were higher. I notice the OP uses the word "permissions"... when talking about Terminal 1 as if it's the holy grail- this is only a personal opinion. I prefer Terminal 3.



You prefer T3?? Been a while since I have heard that. Maybe its cause I grew up with T1, but I always enjoyed it better. From check in to the baggage claim. Always things to do also. T3 is just too much space and always empty. Plus the baggage claims are laid out badly, especially if you fly UA.
Last edited by AmericanAir88 on Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
AmericanAir88
Topic Author
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: KLAS Terminal and Future Discussion

Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:18 pm

DL777200LR wrote:
They need to open up E gates already, D gates are getting overcrowded with the increase in flights.


Probably ground crew purposes or the fact that international flights are still heavily down. Also, they would need to hire back several staff for cleaning, concessions, maintenance, etc. D gates is already full pf those shops for the other airlines so it made sense economically to close E.

I don’t see why in the near future that B6 and Alaska can’t move back to the E gates. Maybe block off unused gates. D gates still isn’t anywhere near as crowded as it used to be. Plenty of space still.
 
AmericanAir88
Topic Author
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: KLAS Terminal and Future Discussion

Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:22 pm

Ill add to some of the points brought up: I have never seen all the check-in desks or baggage carousels occupied. WN sometimes puts 4 flights on one carousel. I still think F9 should move to T1.

The only areas that could use significant renovation and A-B gates. They use the old school circle gate areas, but then again it doesn’t cause much problem. Id rather see F gates to T3 and D gates return to T1

Any updates on future plans or anything? Any opinions on the terminals?
 
bcbhokie
Posts: 200
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:30 am

Re: KLAS Terminal and Future Discussion

Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:48 am

AmericanAir88 wrote:
You prefer T3?? Been a while since I have heard that. Maybe its cause I grew up with T1, but I always enjoyed it better. From check in to the baggage claim. Always things to do also. T3 is just too much space and always empty. Plus the baggage claims are laid out badly, especially if you fly UA.


I think nostalgia might be a big factor for you. T3 is just straight better in every way: it's lighter, more airy, has a simpler path from checkin to the gate, and it's overall cleaner and more modern-looking. T3 is a world-class airport Vegas can be proud of; T1 is a claustrophobic, aesthetic nightmare, an airport terminal constructed as a mish-mash of leftover chromed bits and bobs from the Riviera and from an abandoned 1981 shopping mall.
 
cschleic
Posts: 1904
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

Re: KLAS Terminal and Future Discussion

Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:41 am

bcbhokie wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
You prefer T3?? Been a while since I have heard that. Maybe its cause I grew up with T1, but I always enjoyed it better. From check in to the baggage claim. Always things to do also. T3 is just too much space and always empty. Plus the baggage claims are laid out badly, especially if you fly UA.


I think nostalgia might be a big factor for you. T3 is just straight better in every way: it's lighter, more airy, has a simpler path from checkin to the gate, and it's overall cleaner and more modern-looking. T3 is a world-class airport Vegas can be proud of; T1 is a claustrophobic, aesthetic nightmare, an airport terminal constructed as a mish-mash of leftover chromed bits and bobs from the Riviera and from an abandoned 1981 shopping mall.


T3 was designed to be entirely self contained, unlike the evolution at the other buildings. Check-in, gates, baggage, parking, taxi, shuttle to rental car all in one building. Plus international, too. On arrival, you can get from the plane to the taxi line or rental shuttle in under 5 minutes, all on foot. No trams or long walks. When heading to a flight, very fast, too. The weird pre-covid set up of some airlines using both buildings is a function of operations and not the building itself. Yes, if there's time, wandering around the old building can be fun, but not every time.
 
AmericanAir88
Topic Author
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: KLAS Terminal and Future Discussion

Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:54 am

I see the point on T3. Maybe it is nostalgia. T1 A-C gates are very limited I must add. Maybe a C expansion could work but unlikely.

Speaking of baggage and check-in, where exactly do the checked bags for the "D Gates" come from in Terminal 1? Do the bags get sorted/screened in T1 or is there an underground pathway to the D gates? I've always wondered that.
 
F9LASDEN
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 3:56 pm

Re: KLAS Terminal and Future Discussion

Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:56 am

bcbhokie wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
You prefer T3?? Been a while since I have heard that. Maybe its cause I grew up with T1, but I always enjoyed it better. From check in to the baggage claim. Always things to do also. T3 is just too much space and always empty. Plus the baggage claims are laid out badly, especially if you fly UA.


I think nostalgia might be a big factor for you. T3 is just straight better in every way: it's lighter, more airy, has a simpler path from checkin to the gate, and it's overall cleaner and more modern-looking. T3 is a world-class airport Vegas can be proud of; T1 is a claustrophobic, aesthetic nightmare, an airport terminal constructed as a mish-mash of leftover chromed bits and bobs from the Riviera and from an abandoned 1981 shopping mall.


As someone who lives in Las Vegas as opposed to being a visitor to the city, I absolutely despise T1. Driving to T1 as opposed to T3 takes several minutes longer and involves a lot more traffic and difficult roads (at least with the route I take to the airport from my house at Flamingo and I-515). The parking situation is worse at T1 (including needing to take a shuttle from the economy lot at T1 while you don’t have to at T3). In addition, when arriving back home from a long trip, when I’m exhausted and tired of being around people, I find the loud, flashy, obnoxious, and downright chaotic atmosphere at T1 to be rather unpleasant. When picking up and dropping them off at the airport, T1’s passenger drop off and pickup areas are always significantly busier and more difficult to negotiate (no doubt as a result of WN utilizing T1 among other airlines that have large presences here). I hate T1 so much that I actively avoid flying NK, WN, and G4 in and out of here, and park at T3 when flying AA or DL unless I need to go to the ticket counter for any reason (check bags, etc.).
 
AmericanAir88
Topic Author
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: KLAS Terminal and Future Discussion

Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:57 am

cschleic wrote:
bcbhokie wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
You prefer T3?? Been a while since I have heard that. Maybe its cause I grew up with T1, but I always enjoyed it better. From check in to the baggage claim. Always things to do also. T3 is just too much space and always empty. Plus the baggage claims are laid out badly, especially if you fly UA.


I think nostalgia might be a big factor for you. T3 is just straight better in every way: it's lighter, more airy, has a simpler path from checkin to the gate, and it's overall cleaner and more modern-looking. T3 is a world-class airport Vegas can be proud of; T1 is a claustrophobic, aesthetic nightmare, an airport terminal constructed as a mish-mash of leftover chromed bits and bobs from the Riviera and from an abandoned 1981 shopping mall.


T3 was designed to be entirely self contained, unlike the evolution at the other buildings. Check-in, gates, baggage, parking, taxi, shuttle to rental car all in one building. Plus international, too. On arrival, you can get from the plane to the taxi line or rental shuttle in under 5 minutes, all on foot. No trams or long walks. When heading to a flight, very fast, too. The weird pre-covid set up of some airlines using both buildings is a function of operations and not the building itself. Yes, if there's time, wandering around the old building can be fun, but not every time.


UA and other airlines always used the D gates. The red line of the tram has been there since the start of T3. It's not a covid feature. Covid just closed the E-Gates for now. T1 is claustrophobic in most of its parts. I only prefer check-in, D gates, and the baggage claim.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2946
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: KLAS Terminal and Future Discussion

Tue May 11, 2021 3:45 am

How long has Air Cargo Carriers been operating their SH-360 into LAS from PHX? Is this something new?

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