Air France Adds Denver

Ishrion · Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:16 pm

Can't find a press release yet, but it's being reported Air France is launching 3x weekly flights from Paris to Denver starting July 2 with the 787-9.

https://twitter.com/AirlineFlyer/status ... 5880005635

LCDFlight · Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:18 pm

Denver's remarkable rise continues.

Ski trips for Europeans, plus, Denver itself has big money like never before. Similar to Austin. Burgeoning ultra affluent segment.

Ishrion · Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:21 pm

DEN now has a press release: https://www.flydenver.com/sites/default ... 0FINAL.pdf

Flights run through October 29.

"The new Air France DEN-CDG flights will be open for sale as of today. Service start is contingent on changes to travel bans currently in effect which do not allow non-essential travel between the United States and Europe."

clrd4t8koff · Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:31 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Denver's remarkable rise continues.

Ski trips for Europeans, plus, Denver itself has big money like never before. Similar to Austin. Burgeoning ultra affluent segment.

Europeans aren’t going to be skiing in Colorado given this flight only runs July-October. MAYBE October there’s a chance for enough snow, but not July-September.

CALMSP · Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:35 pm

I'd be shocked if this gets going this year. France hasn't even opened to US citizens yet!!

This will certainly add a nice lineup for the afternoon at DEN, and mirrors what Norwegian was operating.

Cubsrule · Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:35 pm

BA is not currently operating DEN. Have they announced a resumption date?

BA744PHX · Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:37 pm

Congrats too DEN on landing Air France! When is the last time AF added a US destination?

Ishrion · Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:40 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
Congrats too DEN on landing Air France! When is the last time AF added a US destination?

Last added U.S. destination was DFW which (re)launched in March 2019 after AF left nearly two decades before. Currently set to not operate this season.

rukundo · Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:42 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
Congrats too DEN on landing Air France! When is the last time AF added a US destination?

Dallas in 2019, but was a resume. AF served DFW in 2001.

DEN-CDG was one of undeserved market. However at CDG we had Nowergian started flights between DEN and CDG in 2018.

Airlines attending ACI-North America’s JumpStart® Air Service Development Conference, hosted by Denver Airport 13-15 June, should take a close look at the unserved Denver-Paris route. 90,000 travellers searched for direct services on this route in the last year making it the Skyscanner for Business-anna.aero “Unserved Route of Week.” This special award for viable, unserved, new air services is based on a powerful analysis made possible by capturing aspirational data from the Skyscanner.net flight comparison site used by +50 million unique visitors per month.

https://www.anna.aero/2016/06/01/denver ... -the-week/

PHLspecial · Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:43 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Denver's remarkable rise continues.

Ski trips for Europeans, plus, Denver itself has big money like never before. Similar to Austin. Burgeoning ultra affluent segment.

My complaint, its the summer time so it would be a bit hard to ski and snowboard. Otherwise great add

panam330 · Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:45 pm

Well I figured it would come, but I would’ve put money on UA, and certainly not in 2021. Good luck to AF; once international travel rebounds, this will be a nice add.

trexel94 · Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:52 pm

What an awesome surprise! Certainly didn’t see this coming. Although to be fair, I would have thought if any Skyteam airline were to add DEN it would have been KL. Denver stays winning! I wonder if they’ll have some decent introductory fares?

PSU.DTW.SCE · Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:58 pm

I figured Skyteam was going to launch a DEN - CDG/AMS flight sooner or later this is no surprise.

DEN / Colorado does far more tourism in the summer months than in the winter for skiing. Skiing is a lot more niche than people realize, but skiers have a high propensity to travel and generally have a lot of discressionary income.

BA744PHX · Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:04 pm

Ishrion wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
Congrats too DEN on landing Air France! When is the last time AF added a US destination?

Last added U.S. destination was DFW which (re)launched in March 2019 after AF left nearly two decades before. Currently set to not operate this season.

Ah I forgot about DFW, I remember SEA was announced for 2017.

I wonder if this may lead to a further US expansion at 3 weekly frequencies, they will now serve 14 cities on their own metal which is the smallest compared to BA & LH.

ATL, BOS, ORD, DEN, DFW, DTW, IAH, LAX, MIA, MSP, JFK, SFO, SEA, IAD

jhsusman · Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:05 pm

I wouldn’t be surprised if UA counters this with their own flights - they will have a ton of international gate capacity once the A concourse expansion is completed.

448205 · Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:08 pm

What kind of a mythical world are we devolving into?

Europeans can not enter America, Americans can not enter Europe, with no scheduled end in sight. We're approaching 1.5 years of "new normal." How many people will be on this flight?

CALMSP · Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:10 pm

jhsusman wrote:
I wouldn’t be surprised if UA counters this with their own flights - they will have a ton of international gate capacity once the A concourse expansion is completed.

agreed, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw UA add a CDG/FCO/AMS for 2022.

Runway765 · Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:11 pm

What the?

If this were normal times, there'd be no surprise from me, considering the TATL hole SkyTeam had in DEN. But launching this when the borders are still closed? How is this going to work?

BA744PHX · Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:16 pm

CALMSP wrote:
jhsusman wrote:
I wouldn’t be surprised if UA counters this with their own flights - they will have a ton of international gate capacity once the A concourse expansion is completed.

agreed, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw UA add a CDG/FCO/AMS for 2022.

I would think either CDG or AMS, however FCO is a very difficult market and I doubt the numbers are there. Maybe limited summer seasonal at best.

Ishrion · Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:18 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
Congrats too DEN on landing Air France! When is the last time AF added a US destination?

Last added U.S. destination was DFW which (re)launched in March 2019 after AF left nearly two decades before. Currently set to not operate this season.

Ah I forgot about DFW, I remember SEA was announced for 2017.

I wonder if this may lead to a further US expansion at 3 weekly frequencies, they will now serve 14 cities on their own metal which is the smallest compared to BA & LH.

ATL, BOS, ORD, DEN, DFW, DTW, IAH, LAX, MIA, MSP, JFK, SFO, SEA, IAD

If Air France intends to fill in Norwegian's ceased routes, CDG-AUS could be an option with Delta's Austin... "focus city" and connections through CDG. Norwegian was supposed to launch CDG-AUS in 2020, but COVID-19 prevented it. KLM was also supposed to launch AMS-AUS.

Varsity1 wrote:
What kind of a mythical world are we devolving into?

Europeans can not enter America, Americans can not enter Europe, with no scheduled end in sight. We're approaching 1.5 years of "new normal." How many people will be on this flight?

It's a hard bet. From the press release, "service start is contingent on changes to travel bans currently in effect which do not allow non-essential travel between the United States and Europe."

Runway765 · Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:19 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
jhsusman wrote:
I wouldn’t be surprised if UA counters this with their own flights - they will have a ton of international gate capacity once the A concourse expansion is completed.

agreed, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw UA add a CDG/FCO/AMS for 2022.

I would think either CDG or AMS, however FCO is a very difficult market and I doubt the numbers are there. Maybe limited summer seasonal at best.

I doubt they will. This is a 3x weekly seasonal service and there is no guarantee if it will even start at this point.

mkorpal333 · Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:22 pm

Cool, I hope it actually flies.

AndoAv8R · Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:31 pm

I wonder if the is filling the gap that Norwegian left since they no longer will be flying international?

onwFan · Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:44 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
Congrats too DEN on landing Air France! When is the last time AF added a US destination?

Last added U.S. destination was DFW which (re)launched in March 2019 after AF left nearly two decades before. Currently set to not operate this season.

Ah I forgot about DFW, I remember SEA was announced for 2017.

I wonder if this may lead to a further US expansion at 3 weekly frequencies, they will now serve 14 cities on their own metal which is the smallest compared to BA & LH.

ATL, BOS, ORD, DEN, DFW, DTW, IAH, LAX, MIA, MSP, JFK, SFO, SEA, IAD

CDG-DFW and CDG-SEA have not flown in two years. Given that they are launching CDG-DEN but have no plans to resume CDG-DFW/SEA, I think they are gone for the near future...

LAX772LR · Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:02 pm

This is shocking, for so many reasons above, but based on the (historically incredibly static to the US) carrier operating it.

This is like only the second time in well over 20yrs that AF has opened/resumed a US flight to a place that wasn't a DL j/v hub! Last I can recall is their flopped MCO.

MIflyer12 · Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:04 pm

trexel94 wrote:
What an awesome surprise! Certainly didn’t see this coming. Although to be fair, I would have thought if any Skyteam airline were to add DEN it would have been KL.

Why is that? France gets 2x the American travelers The Netherlands does.

GSP psgr · Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:06 pm

CALMSP wrote:
jhsusman wrote:
I wouldn’t be surprised if UA counters this with their own flights - they will have a ton of international gate capacity once the A concourse expansion is completed.

agreed, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw UA add a CDG/FCO/AMS for 2022.

My guess would be CDG, FCO, or BRU instead of AMS (onward connections at BRU might be more attractive even if it isn't as big of a tourist draw). I could also see DUB, which is another huge tourist draw in the summer with a modestly shorter stage length.

LAX772LR · Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:06 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
trexel94 wrote:
What an awesome surprise! Certainly didn’t see this coming. Although to be fair, I would have thought if any Skyteam airline were to add DEN it would have been KL.

Why is that? France gets 2x the American travelers The Netherlands does.

Because KL has a lower more flexible cost structure, and has historically been more adventurous than AF when launching N.Am routes, both to and away from DL j/v hubs.

LAX772LR · Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:08 pm

Hopefully, this'll be the first of an interesting new N.Am expansion/resumption for them.... I mean, can we finally get an MSY-CDG up in here?!

AC4500 · Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:38 pm

I'd bet on a 15–20% chance of this route starting on-time. With EU/US borders closed indefinitely with the exception of "essential travel", it's hard to imagine that this will do well when it first launches. However, given the recent trends of improving U.S. markets, DEN will likely be one of the first major U.S. markets to make a full recovery, so if AF is going to announce any Europe-US markets right now, this one would be it.

LAX772LR wrote:
Hopefully, this'll be the first of an interesting new N.Am expansion/resumption for them.... I mean, can we finally get an MSY-CDG up in here?!

CDG-MSY seems like it would be a reasonable leisure market pre/post-COVID. Maybe in 5 years from now?

My hopes of PDX-CDG are pretty much gone now that both DL and BA are off of PDX-LHR for good...

slcdeltarumd11 · Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:42 pm

AF isn't dumb they saw norweigan on the route and see potential. Again this is all about lesiure and like usa airlines AF will have less business demand for a while. A route like this is worth a shot. They probably will push back till borders reopen. They want to book seats in case it does open for vaccinated people.

Delta has some flights that can feed this flight too. SLC and LAX have their own flights but those hubs can still fed this flight if it needs it. There's lots of people willing to connect to save money especially leisure. This flight isn't super risky for sky team

Naincompetent · Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:47 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
DEN / Colorado does far more tourism in the summer months than in the winter for skiing. Skiing is a lot more niche than people realize, but skiers have a high propensity to travel and generally have a lot of discressionary income.

DEN as a ski destination was indeed quite strange from a French POW!
Average French would never fly this far when the alps are so close!
High end skiers have a lot of high end ski destinations (courchevel, zermatt, megeve, val d'Isère, cran Montana...)
Higher end people who may want to go skiing in aspen would probably fly private...

SunsetLimited · Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:48 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Hopefully, this'll be the first of an interesting new N.Am expansion/resumption for them.... I mean, can we finally get an MSY-CDG up in here?!

Well, DE definitely proved after three successful seasons (was going on its 4th) that there is...or was...a market for a second nonstop carrier between Europe and MSY at least seasonally. I just hope we see BA come back and find success...obviously, its schedule keeps on getting pushed back.

Congrats to DEN, one of my favorite airports and cities...fingers crossed that it starts!

32andBelow · Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:51 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Denver's remarkable rise continues.

Ski trips for Europeans, plus, Denver itself has big money like never before. Similar to Austin. Burgeoning ultra affluent segment.

And ski trips for Americans!

Naincompetent · Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:55 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Denver's remarkable rise continues.

Ski trips for Europeans, plus, Denver itself has big money like never before. Similar to Austin. Burgeoning ultra affluent segment.

That is a weird statement, please explain to me why Europeans would go to Denver for skiing?

ChrisNH38 · Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:56 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
Congrats too DEN on landing Air France! When is the last time AF added a US destination?

Last added U.S. destination was DFW which (re)launched in March 2019 after AF left nearly two decades before. Currently set to not operate this season.

Ah I forgot about DFW, I remember SEA was announced for 2017.

I wonder if this may lead to a further US expansion at 3 weekly frequencies, they will now serve 14 cities on their own metal which is the smallest compared to BA & LH.

ATL, BOS, ORD, DEN, DFW, DTW, IAH, LAX, MIA, MSP, JFK, SFO, SEA, IAD

Making this possible might be the likelihood that they won’t double up to cities like BOS, making a plane available.

OA412 · Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:05 pm

This is surprising. I didn't expect to see AF here in DEN. I figured there would eventually be a Skyteam flight to Europe, but that it would be DEN-AMS on either DL or KL. It'll be nice to have another option to Europe.

airbazar · Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:17 pm

Naincompetent wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Denver's remarkable rise continues.

Ski trips for Europeans, plus, Denver itself has big money like never before. Similar to Austin. Burgeoning ultra affluent segment.

That is a weird statement, please explain to me why Europeans would go to Denver for skiing?

This is like asking why someone on the East Coast would ever go to Hawaii when the Caribbean is much closer

The reality is many Europeans already take ski trips to the Rockies. Colorado and Utah are very different than anything you have in Europe. Not better or worse, just different. Although as a skier the quality of the snow in the rockies is hard to beat. The high altitude makes for drier, fluffier snow. The term champagne snow exists for a reason and you can't find it in Europe.
But it's moot point 'cause this is a Summer route

BA744PHX · Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:28 pm

onwFan wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

Last added U.S. destination was DFW which (re)launched in March 2019 after AF left nearly two decades before. Currently set to not operate this season.

Ah I forgot about DFW, I remember SEA was announced for 2017.

I wonder if this may lead to a further US expansion at 3 weekly frequencies, they will now serve 14 cities on their own metal which is the smallest compared to BA & LH.

ATL, BOS, ORD, DEN, DFW, DTW, IAH, LAX, MIA, MSP, JFK, SFO, SEA, IAD

CDG-DFW and CDG-SEA have not flown in two years. Given that they are launching CDG-DEN but have no plans to resume CDG-DFW/SEA, I think they are gone for the near future...

I wonder if SEA/DFW will return for 2022? It will be interesting if DEN is actually launched.

Yahnih · Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:39 pm

Does this give hope for San Diego ?

mcg · Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:40 pm

Naincompetent wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Denver's remarkable rise continues.

Ski trips for Europeans, plus, Denver itself has big money like never before. Similar to Austin. Burgeoning ultra affluent segment.

That is a weird statement, please explain to me why Europeans would go to Denver for skiing?

My wife and I were at the baggage claim at ZRH waiting for our skis to come up the baggage belt. We struck up a conversation with the Swiss couple standing next to us who were returning from a ski trip from.........Montana and British Columbia. Europeans do come to ski in America, prolly won't be many on this flight as it is to operate summer only.

LCDFlight · Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:50 pm

airbazar wrote:
Naincompetent wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Denver's remarkable rise continues.

Ski trips for Europeans, plus, Denver itself has big money like never before. Similar to Austin. Burgeoning ultra affluent segment.

That is a weird statement, please explain to me why Europeans would go to Denver for skiing?

This is like asking why someone on the East Coast would ever go to Hawaii when the Caribbean is much closer
The reality is many Europeans already take ski trips to the Rockies. Colorado and Utah are very different than anything you have in Europe. Not better or worse, just different. Although as a skier the quality of the snow in the rockies is hard to beat. The high altitude makes for drier, fluffier snow. The term champagne snow exists for a reason and you can't find it in Europe.
But it's moot point 'cause this is a Summer route

A+ answer. You hit all the content and you did it very respectfully.

It’s kind of like when I was in San Francisco 6-7 years ago, it was filled with French tourists. I guess they were there for... the wine? Or the gloomy weather, who knows.

davescj · Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:52 pm

Neither DL nor AF show the non-stop routing on their websites for 7/2.

xjetflyer2001 · Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:41 pm

it shows on AF website. CDG to DEN on 7/2. Departs 1310 Arrives 1520. Flight AF630

Judge1310 · Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:13 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Denver's remarkable rise continues.

Ski trips for Europeans, plus, Denver itself has big money like never before. Similar to Austin. Burgeoning ultra affluent segment.

Umm, no one is skiing in the summer in Colorado. Hiking, sure. But why come to the Rockies to hike when the gorgeous Alps are right there?

Seems like AF is just looking to catch some market share for onward connections out of CDG.

FSDan · Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:43 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
But why come to the Rockies to hike when the gorgeous Alps are right there?

For a change of pace and a different environment?

FSDan · Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:45 pm

onwFan wrote:
CDG-DFW and CDG-SEA have not flown in two years. Given that they are launching CDG-DEN but have no plans to resume CDG-DFW/SEA, I think they are gone for the near future...

SEA-CDG is likely to be back on some combination of DL and AF in the long run, even if they don't both put their own metal on it again. I agree DFW is much less certain.

PHLspecial · Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:48 pm

Naincompetent wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Denver's remarkable rise continues.

Ski trips for Europeans, plus, Denver itself has big money like never before. Similar to Austin. Burgeoning ultra affluent segment.

That is a weird statement, please explain to me why Europeans would go to Denver for skiing?

To be fair the mountains in Colorado was big and really nice, especially if you have money. Wintertime would be bigger pull I would think.

IrishAyes · Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:27 pm

Naincompetent wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Denver's remarkable rise continues.

Ski trips for Europeans, plus, Denver itself has big money like never before. Similar to Austin. Burgeoning ultra affluent segment.

That is a weird statement, please explain to me why Europeans would go to Denver for skiing?

I might also add that Europeans, unlike many North Americans (US/Canada) prize their vacation and holiday allotment and actually USE their time-off to travel and enjoy leisure activities.

In the decade+ that I've worked in Corporate America across several multi-million/billion dollar companies with presence in the U.S. and abroad, it is astonishing to me how many of the US-based employees avert utilizing their full vacation allotment (use-it, or lose-it) and defer to working around the clock as a badge of productivity/honor. For the European-based ones, it's the opposite.

piedmontf284000 · Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:50 pm

US Airline executives don't see much summer travel to Europe this year and I would say it cuts both ways. My guess is that this new AF route gets moves to 2022

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/summer- ... bound.html

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