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catiii
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:56 am

d8s wrote:
United1 wrote:
JOSEMEX wrote:
I hope they also bring back Channel 9 while they're at it.


Channel 9 still exists. All 777, 767s and retrofitted 752's have Channel 9 installed. It would not surprise me if it comes back to the narrow body fleet if UA retrofits AVOD screens.

Now if its turned on or not is another story but.....


Always been disappointed the channel 9 was not on the narrow bodies, especially the DirecTV aircraft. That was a CO error....


In today’s social media environment every pilot would pull the breaker to shut it off anyway.
 
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drerx7
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:25 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
A few people on here went nuts about PTVs not mattering. They are the very vocal minority and wrong. We all know customers care about PTVs. The average person thinks a plane is "new" if there is has a ptv and old if it doesn't have one. It's that simple. Take any flight they are heavily used. Ask anyone not on a. Net that is what determines an old plane from a new plane.

FACTS!!! this response needs to be highlighted.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
SunsetLimited
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:41 pm

Sorry but for me if the choice is a plane with seat back AVOD or one with just PDE, give me the seat back screen any time. It’s not even close. My iPhone is fine if I need to just surf the web over WiFi but for watching movies etc, I vastly prefer the screen. Also I really like the detailed flight maps that many carriers have and I spend a lot of time watching that. PDE is tolerable if it’s the only option, but I’m glad United has seen the light.
Spread hope like fire.
 
chonetsao
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:55 pm

SunsetLimited wrote:
Sorry but for me if the choice is a plane with seat back AVOD or one with just PDE, give me the seat back screen any time. It’s not even close. My iPhone is fine if I need to just surf the web over WiFi but for watching movies etc, I vastly prefer the screen. Also I really like the detailed flight maps that many carriers have and I spend a lot of time watching that. PDE is tolerable if it’s the only option, but I’m glad United has seen the light.


That is my feelings too. I travel with 3 personal electronic devices from phone to tablet to computer. But when you take legacy airlines in USA it is always transiting through a hub. Which means from A to B it is not a non-stop 2 hours flight, it is normally two 2-3 hours flights for a total 4-6 flying time. AVOD on PTV in seat back is a life saver so you don't waste your battery power to stream a video.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:08 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
LOL. They had removed the video earlier today only to put it back up but they edited out the part about renovating narrowbody aircraft, new seats, and adding AVOD.


that sounds like the united we know :lol:
 
avier
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:37 pm

Can't believe in a developed country, people still get excited over a screen. I wouldn't choose a cafe, restaurant, or doctors clinic simply because they have more TV monitors flashing stuff around.

The many times I even flew long haul, on premium airlines like SQ, QF, EK etc, I didn't even touch their screen or unpack the headphones they provided. I just wanted to eat and sleep or read. However, I still understand the need for a PTV on long haul sectors. But short-haul is questionable.

In the 2000's, when PTV's were still a novelty and large screen PED's weren't common in one's life, it sure was exciting and cool to see seat-back IFE's on planes, especially cool on a domestic sector. That did give off a vibe of a more premium feel. But now, with multiple HD, 4K, 8K and whatever personal devices and screens there is in one's lives everywhere, finding a screen on a plane for a domestic flight doesn't feel all that exciting or a specific reason to fly on that airline.

The argument of kids is probably the lamest reason I can see for an airline having PTV's on domestic flights. On a daily basis, what % of flyers are such, that is kids flying. On a regular day, I'm sure these are adults, mostly travelling for work/lesiure- without kids , that constitute the largest chunk of flyers. And with most such having a PED, would it be an important factor for them to choose an airline that has a seat-back screen ? So one must ask what is it that this segment of flyers would want.

The streaming IFE to ones PED'S (with charging ports on seats) is a much better option. Allows one to view stuff on their own device, without touching a screen used by many others. (and I'm sure in a post-covid world, some people are going to carry on few good hygiene practices we all learnt in the pandemic i.e to try and minimize contact with common touch points in public.)

It almost feels like the lines between the US based FSC's, LCC's and ULCC's has blurred so much, that this looks like a desperate and last resort to try and differentiate their product-
i.e by simply installing a silly screen.
 
micstatic
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:59 pm

@avier. You are the definition of the vocal minority.
 
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drerx7
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:11 pm

micstatic wrote:
@avier. You are the definition of the vocal minority.

Exactly.
Eventhough its a well thought out argument...its opinion based. I definitely prefer the PTVs vs. my phone. Every flight I am on with PTVs more people are using them than not.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
ikramerica
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:13 pm

avier wrote:
Can't believe in a developed country, people still get excited over a screen. I wouldn't choose a cafe, restaurant, or doctors clinic simply because they have more TV monitors flashing stuff around.

The many times I even flew long haul, on premium airlines like SQ, QF, EK etc, I didn't even touch their screen or unpack the headphones they provided. I just wanted to eat and sleep or read. However, I still understand the need for a PTV on long haul sectors. But short-haul is questionable.

In the 2000's, when PTV's were still a novelty and large screen PED's weren't common in one's life, it sure was exciting and cool to see seat-back IFE's on planes, especially cool on a domestic sector. That did give off a vibe of a more premium feel. But now, with multiple HD, 4K, 8K and whatever personal devices and screens there is in one's lives everywhere, finding a screen on a plane for a domestic flight doesn't feel all that exciting or a specific reason to fly on that airline.

The argument of kids is probably the lamest reason I can see for an airline having PTV's on domestic flights. On a daily basis, what % of flyers are such, that is kids flying. On a regular day, I'm sure these are adults, mostly travelling for work/lesiure- without kids , that constitute the largest chunk of flyers. And with most such having a PED, would it be an important factor for them to choose an airline that has a seat-back screen ? So one must ask what is it that this segment of flyers would want.

The streaming IFE to ones PED'S (with charging ports on seats) is a much better option. Allows one to view stuff on their own device, without touching a screen used by many others. (and I'm sure in a post-covid world, some people are going to carry on few good hygiene practices we all learnt in the pandemic i.e to try and minimize contact with common touch points in public.)

It almost feels like the lines between the US based FSC's, LCC's and ULCC's has blurred so much, that this looks like a desperate and last resort to try and differentiate their product-
i.e by simply installing a silly screen.

And yet my dentist having a TV I can control is a big plus for me.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Galore
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:05 pm

This the airline equivalent of McDonalds bringing back “try our NEW crispy chicken sandwich”. Can’t they make up their minds?
 
iAvgeek737
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:40 pm

SonomaFlyer wrote:
Many airlines are going to device streaming since we all bring either phones and/or pads and/or laptops on trips. It saves weight plus the folks can plug into power ports so I don't agree AA was just slapped in the face.


No AA didnt get slapped in the face by removing the TV's. They got slapped in the face by thinking they would still be able to compete against the U/LCC's. They dont have the cost structure for that. So removing TV's, padding from seats, and decreasing pitch, while still having to charge a million dollars is what slapped AA in the face.
 
alfa164
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:41 pm

avier wrote:
Can't believe in a developed country, people still get excited over a screen. I wouldn't choose a cafe, restaurant, or doctors clinic simply because they have more TV monitors flashing stuff around.
The many times I even flew long haul, on premium airlines like SQ, QF, EK etc, I didn't even touch their screen or unpack the headphones they provided. I just wanted to eat and sleep or read. However, I still understand the need for a PTV on long haul sectors. But short-haul is questionable.
In the 2000's, when PTV's were still a novelty and large screen PED's weren't common in one's life, it sure was exciting and cool to see seat-back IFE's on planes, especially cool on a domestic sector. That did give off a vibe of a more premium feel. But now, with multiple HD, 4K, 8K and whatever personal devices and screens there is in one's lives everywhere, finding a screen on a plane for a domestic flight doesn't feel all that exciting or a specific reason to fly on that airline.
The argument of kids is probably the lamest reason I can see for an airline having PTV's on domestic flights. On a daily basis, what % of flyers are such, that is kids flying. On a regular day, I'm sure these are adults, mostly travelling for work/lesiure- without kids , that constitute the largest chunk of flyers. And with most such having a PED, would it be an important factor for them to choose an airline that has a seat-back screen ? So one must ask what is it that this segment of flyers would want.
The streaming IFE to ones PED'S (with charging ports on seats) is a much better option. Allows one to view stuff on their own device, without touching a screen used by many others. (and I'm sure in a post-covid world, some people are going to carry on few good hygiene practices we all learnt in the pandemic i.e to try and minimize contact with common touch points in public.)
It almost feels like the lines between the US based FSC's, LCC's and ULCC's has blurred so much, that this looks like a desperate and last resort to try and differentiate their product-
i.e by simply installing a silly screen.


You are trying to present your opinion as facts; that doesn't work here. Nobody believe any airline would add IFE back onto their aircraft unless customer demand was there; their marketing departments are adept at monitoring their customers' desires, and making decisions based on those findings.

Your last sentence, though, might nail it: these additions may very well be designed to differentiate the premium carriers from the ULCC's. That does not make it a "desperate last resort"; it makes it a smart move,
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Tyroneguy
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:10 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
My gripe with Channel 9 was always being overrides by the long drawn out FA announcements shortly after takeoff. Departure is probably the most interesting time to listen to Channel 9 and it seemed more often than not 3, 000 ft to 12,000 ft was full of FA announcements describing the “exciting new Chase MileagePlus offer”. By the time they are done it seems we would be handed off to center where it was all mostly just frequency changes until approach, where another long FA announcement would override the most interesting conversations.


FYI, cabin announcements shouldn't be starting til you've cleared 10k ft. Sorry for the disruptions. I agree with you.
 
atlflyer
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:20 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
LOL. They had removed the video earlier today only to put it back up but they edited out the part about renovating narrowbody aircraft, new seats, and adding AVOD.


that sounds like the united we know :lol:


Is it actually not happening then?!
 
Scarebus34
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:28 pm

atlflyer wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
LOL. They had removed the video earlier today only to put it back up but they edited out the part about renovating narrowbody aircraft, new seats, and adding AVOD.


that sounds like the united we know :lol:


Is it actually not happening then?!


It was never confirmed to happen to begin with... lol.
 
global1
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:48 pm

You need power cabling to have power ports. Unless AA wants to do away with those, that weight is common to both.
Last edited by global1 on Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Vicenza
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:50 pm

alfa164 wrote:
avier wrote:
Can't believe in a developed country, people still get excited over a screen. I wouldn't choose a cafe, restaurant, or doctors clinic simply because they have more TV monitors flashing stuff around.
The many times I even flew long haul, on premium airlines like SQ, QF, EK etc, I didn't even touch their screen or unpack the headphones they provided. I just wanted to eat and sleep or read. However, I still understand the need for a PTV on long haul sectors. But short-haul is questionable.
In the 2000's, when PTV's were still a novelty and large screen PED's weren't common in one's life, it sure was exciting and cool to see seat-back IFE's on planes, especially cool on a domestic sector. That did give off a vibe of a more premium feel. But now, with multiple HD, 4K, 8K and whatever personal devices and screens there is in one's lives everywhere, finding a screen on a plane for a domestic flight doesn't feel all that exciting or a specific reason to fly on that airline.
The argument of kids is probably the lamest reason I can see for an airline having PTV's on domestic flights. On a daily basis, what % of flyers are such, that is kids flying. On a regular day, I'm sure these are adults, mostly travelling for work/lesiure- without kids , that constitute the largest chunk of flyers. And with most such having a PED, would it be an important factor for them to choose an airline that has a seat-back screen ? So one must ask what is it that this segment of flyers would want.
The streaming IFE to ones PED'S (with charging ports on seats) is a much better option. Allows one to view stuff on their own device, without touching a screen used by many others. (and I'm sure in a post-covid world, some people are going to carry on few good hygiene practices we all learnt in the pandemic i.e to try and minimize contact with common touch points in public.)
It almost feels like the lines between the US based FSC's, LCC's and ULCC's has blurred so much, that this looks like a desperate and last resort to try and differentiate their product-
i.e by simply installing a silly screen.


You are trying to present your opinion as facts; that doesn't work here. Nobody believe any airline would add IFE back onto their aircraft unless customer demand was there; their marketing departments are adept at monitoring their customers' desires, and making decisions based on those findings.

Your last sentence, though, might nail it: these additions may very well be designed to differentiate the premium carriers from the ULCC's. That does not make it a "desperate last resort"; it makes it a smart move,


Genuine customer 'demand'.....or artificial? Airlines will offer anything if their competitors have it, but that is very far from genuine demand being there. As regards your first sentence: In works in every aspect of the forum where opinion is very frequently presented as 'fact'. Personally, I'd be inclined to agree with the poster and certainly don't see it as any 'smart move'. (And that, by the way is opinion).
 
deltaflyertoo
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:16 pm

Tyroneguy wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
My gripe with Channel 9 was always being overrides by the long drawn out FA announcements shortly after takeoff. Departure is probably the most interesting time to listen to Channel 9 and it seemed more often than not 3, 000 ft to 12,000 ft was full of FA announcements describing the “exciting new Chase MileagePlus offer”. By the time they are done it seems we would be handed off to center where it was all mostly just frequency changes until approach, where another long FA announcement would override the most interesting conversations.


FYI, cabin announcements shouldn't be starting til you've cleared 10k ft. Sorry for the disruptions. I agree with you.


Indeed nowadays its seems over 10,000 ft but Tyroneguy's post brought back so many memories of indeed the f/a being on the PA literally as soon as wheels were up...and...I recall many of flights while descending into a very busy O'hare and just as the excitement of following your flight on Ch 9 was at its peak-f/a gets on PA to start reading off the connection flights-like all 50 of them-OMG! Talk about wanting to rip ear phones out and scream "WHAT ARE YOU DOING!? YOU ARE RUINING IT!" LOL. That said-topic at hand-although not channel 9, the real time sky map/flight info during these same phases of flight is almost just as cool (esp. if you get into a holding pattern or deviate around a storm and captain isn't initially forthcoming) -so another reason to bring PTV back!
 
joeljack
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:21 pm

If this is true...this is best news to come out of United in many years! Speaking from a 20-year continuous United Gold or above.

Just flew to Denver with some friends, convinced a friend to fly United vs delta from Minneapolis and she carried on and on and couldn’t believe there were not TV’s. (Very average flyer). Over long term this will pay dividends for the airline.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:42 pm

I still like personal IFE, unfortunately I'm an AA FF.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
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ClipperMonsoon
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:13 pm

If you wanna watch TV or play games, stay at home. If flying isn't enough entertainment for you, I dont know what is, if you can't put your phone down for 3, 4, 5 hours without complaining, you are just looking for something to complain about....just my opinion:/
The true Queen of the Skies the Boeing 707-321B
 
OB1504
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:25 pm

FCOTSTW wrote:
I think that after the many episodes of bad publicity (probably the most infamous being the dragging of David Dao at ORD in 04/2017) UA is trying to buy back customer trust through these actions. Most definitely a good try to reposition itself as a premium brand.


Does the average traveler really remember that anymore? After the year we’ve just had, I didn’t even remember what year the Dr. Dao incident happened.

JetAwayDrew wrote:
The big question is, how will AA respond? Assuming UA is actually installing PTV’s (since it wasn’t stated explicitly), I can’t imagine AA sitting back and letting themselves be the lone wolf of the pack.


AA is so disinterested in offering a competitive product that it wouldn’t surprise me if they started ripping TVs out of customers’ homes once they’re done destroying their narrowbody interiors.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
A few people on here went nuts about PTVs not mattering. They are the very vocal minority and wrong. We all know customers care about PTVs. The average person thinks a plane is "new" if there is has a ptv and old if it doesn't have one. It's that simple. Take any flight they are heavily used. Ask anyone not on a. Net that is what determines an old plane from a new plane.


Agreed. I remember being on a brand new AA 737 MAX and bearing the couple behind me comment that it must be an old plane because the flight attendants were doing the safety demo in the aisles and there were no screens.

I once read a review by a non-avgeek comparing Delta and United economy class giving the advantage to Delta because it was “obviously” a newer plane since it had PTVs. In reality it was a 20+ year old A320 and the PTV-less United 737 was one of the post-merger deliveries and at least a decade newer.

iAvgeek737 wrote:
SonomaFlyer wrote:
Many airlines are going to device streaming since we all bring either phones and/or pads and/or laptops on trips. It saves weight plus the folks can plug into power ports so I don't agree AA was just slapped in the face.


No AA didnt get slapped in the face by removing the TV's. They got slapped in the face by thinking they would still be able to compete against the U/LCC's. They dont have the cost structure for that. So removing TV's, padding from seats, and decreasing pitch, while still having to charge a million dollars is what slapped AA in the face.


AA management thought they could pull a fast one on the traveling public by attempting to offer a Spirit product at Delta prices. Fortunately passengers aren’t as stupid as AA thought. Even Spirit found out there was a limit to how much abuse they were willing to take.
 
gaystudpilot
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:53 pm

OB1504 wrote:
AA management thought they could pull a fast one on the traveling public by attempting to offer a Spirit product at Delta prices.


It’s called the Spirit of American strategy.

Doug Parker has squeezed a lot out of American’s brand equity.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:55 pm

I've been saying for years they need to out the longhauls AVOD on the narrow body fleet. Thank God it's happening!
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
gaystudpilot
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:01 pm

My husband likes the point out that this debate is about choice. The choice for him is the ability to multi task. A lot of folks sit in their living rooms watching TV with a second screen in hand. When he flies for work he has one thing playing on the IFE PTV and does something else with his personal device, eg, read and respond to work emails, read the NYT, plan our next vacation, shop, etc.
 
global2
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:23 pm

Reading through this post, and having achieved Million Miler status on AA, it makes me sad to see how far AA's star has fallen.
 
rbavfan
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:23 pm

SonomaFlyer wrote:
Many airlines are going to device streaming since we all bring either phones and/or pads and/or laptops on trips. It saves weight plus the folks can plug into power ports so I don't agree AA was just slapped in the face.


And many of us have cell phones & laptops but not pads & do not want to fumble around with them on flights. Many also have just a desktop computer at home. I book reservations at national parks for people calling because they are not savvy on how to book on a phone.. I guess it does not matter if they have entertainment on flights. But then again they can talk to you the whole flight because they are bored. You should never assume all passenger are going to be tech savvy. So yes it's a slap in the face to many including older people that still have money while not paying fo high tech item.
 
N649DL
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:41 pm

Regarding this "Vocal Minority" of Anti-Seat Back Screens, I think it has a lot because some people cling to the whole "Going Green" Fad in thinking Seat Back AVOD means more weight equals more fuel burn and greenhouse emissions. PTV systems have come a long way since the early Obama years and are much more lightweight all-around. WiFi and wireless internet connectivity *everywhere* simply is not as advanced as people want or expect it to be. Yes, Mobile devices have with 4G/5G but that is essentially useless on airplanes.

The other big mistake UA made was shoving the whole streaming entertainment thing down peoples throats back in the day when the system wasn't ready for prime time yet. Arguably it still isn't as people still have various connectivity issues.
 
luckyone
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:35 pm

I think it’s also worth pointing out that in the time since airlines starting removing PTVs and adding streaming services, Apple has reconfigured their devices. Instead before having a separate power port and a separate headphone jack, now they just have one, preventing you from charging as you watch. Somewhat silly, but on a longer flight I’m not able to use it the whole flight because I’ll need to recharge it, to ensure that I can use it at my destination. It’s just more of a headache than using the seat back PTV.
 
debonair
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:59 pm

InnsbruckFlyer wrote:
Curious to see what aircraft will get new IFEs. Surely a lot of 737NGs. What about the A319/320s?


Are there any A320 family aircraft with PTV in the fleet? UA seems to operate quite a handful ex U2, CZ Airbus - will they be reconfigured to UA standards?
 
airzona11
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:02 pm

SunsetLimited wrote:
Sorry but for me if the choice is a plane with seat back AVOD or one with just PDE, give me the seat back screen any time. It’s not even close. My iPhone is fine if I need to just surf the web over WiFi but for watching movies etc, I vastly prefer the screen. Also I really like the detailed flight maps that many carriers have and I spend a lot of time watching that. PDE is tolerable if it’s the only option, but I’m glad United has seen the light.


Are you saying all things equal? Or are you saying you’ll pay more for a PTV?
 
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Crosswind
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:51 pm

I think American's response to the PTV on short-haul debate might have been influenced by their "More Room Throughout Coach" program. Reconfigured their entire fleet to give 34-35" legroom, thinking that would increase revenue. In reality people generally still booked the cheapest ticket, but AA's CASK went up because their aircraft had less seats.

I think that's the real issue... Installing these systems across hundreds of aircraft is expensive, plus ongoing costs of content, added weight etc. How much extra revenue does it bring in versus the huge cost.

I don't know who's right or wrong, but I think MRTC may have coloured their thinking.
 
luckyone
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:24 am

Crosswind wrote:
I think American's response to the PTV on short-haul debate might have been influenced by their "More Room Throughout Coach" program. Reconfigured their entire fleet to give 34-35" legroom, thinking that would increase revenue. In reality people generally still booked the cheapest ticket, but AA's CASK went up because their aircraft had less seats.

I think that's the real issue... Installing these systems across hundreds of aircraft is expensive, plus ongoing costs of content, added weight etc. How much extra revenue does it bring in versus the huge cost.

I don't know who's right or wrong, but I think MRTC may have coloured their thinking.

Or holdover influence from former US leadership. Recall that US had re-fashioned itself as an LCC prior to the merger.
 
SunsetLimited
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:34 am

airzona11 wrote:
SunsetLimited wrote:
Sorry but for me if the choice is a plane with seat back AVOD or one with just PDE, give me the seat back screen any time. It’s not even close. My iPhone is fine if I need to just surf the web over WiFi but for watching movies etc, I vastly prefer the screen. Also I really like the detailed flight maps that many carriers have and I spend a lot of time watching that. PDE is tolerable if it’s the only option, but I’m glad United has seen the light.


Are you saying all things equal? Or are you saying you’ll pay more for a PTV?


I have paid more to take a routing with a particular aircraft that has PTV for a 3+ hour flight as opposed to one without. I’m not usually confined to a specific time when I fly so I look for aircraft I enjoy and the amenities those aircraft offer. I can definitely survive a flight without it but I don’t find it as enjoyable. Again, personal preference, I get it if it’s not a big deal to you.
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DeltaRules
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:40 am

I tried DL's streaming service on a 717 last week and it didn't work. DL's PTV AVOD has its flaws (mostly, missing or non-existent channels on Dish), but there are other options as opposed to being completely locked out.

Give me the PTV seven days a week and twice on Sunday over streaming. If UA adds them, I'm more inclined to fly them. Plus, I'd rather use their screen than my devices.
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Sancho99504
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:50 am

avier wrote:
Can't believe in a developed country, people still get excited over a screen. I wouldn't choose a cafe, restaurant, or doctors clinic simply because they have more TV monitors flashing stuff around.

The many times I even flew long haul, on premium airlines like SQ, QF, EK etc, I didn't even touch their screen or unpack the headphones they provided. I just wanted to eat and sleep or read. However, I still understand the need for a PTV on long haul sectors. But short-haul is questionable.

In the 2000's, when PTV's were still a novelty and large screen PED's weren't common in one's life, it sure was exciting and cool to see seat-back IFE's on planes, especially cool on a domestic sector. That did give off a vibe of a more premium feel. But now, with multiple HD, 4K, 8K and whatever personal devices and screens there is in one's lives everywhere, finding a screen on a plane for a domestic flight doesn't feel all that exciting or a specific reason to fly on that airline.

The argument of kids is probably the lamest reason I can see for an airline having PTV's on domestic flights. On a daily basis, what % of flyers are such, that is kids flying. On a regular day, I'm sure these are adults, mostly travelling for work/lesiure- without kids , that constitute the largest chunk of flyers. And with most such having a PED, would it be an important factor for them to choose an airline that has a seat-back screen ? So one must ask what is it that this segment of flyers would want.

The streaming IFE to ones PED'S (with charging ports on seats) is a much better option. Allows one to view stuff on their own device, without touching a screen used by many others. (and I'm sure in a post-covid world, some people are going to carry on few good hygiene practices we all learnt in the pandemic i.e to try and minimize contact with common touch points in public.)

It almost feels like the lines between the US based FSC's, LCC's and ULCC's has blurred so much, that this looks like a desperate and last resort to try and differentiate their product-
i.e by simply installing a silly screen.

It's one thing to have an interjective opinion, another to have a condescending opinion. There are large amount of us who travel regularly that enjoy having seatback AVOD because we already spend enough time on our phones or tablets, that we just want a break. It's easy to avoid responding to emails and texts if your device is out of sight, out of mind.
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PA110
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:08 am

How about just making sure every single seat has power? Too many bougie 737s only have power ports through Y+ but none in the last 10-15 rows of economy. I don't mind the streaming option. I just don't want to arrive at my destination with a depleted battery.
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airzona11
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:17 am

SunsetLimited wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
SunsetLimited wrote:
Sorry but for me if the choice is a plane with seat back AVOD or one with just PDE, give me the seat back screen any time. It’s not even close. My iPhone is fine if I need to just surf the web over WiFi but for watching movies etc, I vastly prefer the screen. Also I really like the detailed flight maps that many carriers have and I spend a lot of time watching that. PDE is tolerable if it’s the only option, but I’m glad United has seen the light.


Are you saying all things equal? Or are you saying you’ll pay more for a PTV?


I have paid more to take a routing with a particular aircraft that has PTV for a 3+ hour flight as opposed to one without. I’m not usually confined to a specific time when I fly so I look for aircraft I enjoy and the amenities those aircraft offer. I can definitely survive a flight without it but I don’t find it as enjoyable. Again, personal preference, I get it if it’s not a big deal to you.


That certainly makes sense. And as an AvGeek I’ve chosen aircraft type to fly to check it off the list, so I get it. My whole thing with PTVs is that I’m not sure how much of a difference it makes. But obviously UA has enough routes where they feel the capex spread over thousands of seats per year is justifiable as it allows them to earn a premium or keep the higher value flyers.
 
planecane
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:18 am

acavpics wrote:
SonomaFlyer wrote:
Many airlines are going to device streaming since we all bring either phones and/or pads and/or laptops on trips. It saves weight plus the folks can plug into power ports so I don't agree AA was just slapped in the face.


I'd prefer staring out the window to staring at a tiny phone screen for hours. And plus, I wouldn't dare put my laptop on the tray table and risk someone's coffee spilling on it when there's turbulence.

Also, unless you are a contortionist, you'll have a stiff neck trying to watch your laptop screen in the new "hair more pitch than spirit" configuration.
 
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InnsbruckFlyer
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:37 am

debonair wrote:
InnsbruckFlyer wrote:
Curious to see what aircraft will get new IFEs. Surely a lot of 737NGs. What about the A319/320s?


Are there any A320 family aircraft with PTV in the fleet? UA seems to operate quite a handful ex U2, CZ Airbus - will they be reconfigured to UA standards?


Negative, they are all personal device streaming only.
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micstatic
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:51 am

@WidebodyPTV. I've basically flown delta around 100k miles a year last decade. Your claim of 90% of fliers not watching the TV's is far from the reality I've seen on my flights. What I most often see are people multi tasking. IE, a movie/tv show on and also using the wifi on their laptop/tablet/phone. However I do agree with you about AA doing their research. However I think it's clear that Delta/United are attempting to target higher revenue by positioning themselves as a premium airline. American in my opinion appears to be wedged in between the premium carriers and the LCC's.
 
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AirKevin
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:35 am

avier wrote:
Can't believe in a developed country, people still get excited over a screen. I wouldn't choose a cafe, restaurant, or doctors clinic simply because they have more TV monitors flashing stuff around.

The many times I even flew long haul, on premium airlines like SQ, QF, EK etc, I didn't even touch their screen or unpack the headphones they provided. I just wanted to eat and sleep or read. However, I still understand the need for a PTV on long haul sectors. But short-haul is questionable.

In the 2000's, when PTV's were still a novelty and large screen PED's weren't common in one's life, it sure was exciting and cool to see seat-back IFE's on planes, especially cool on a domestic sector. That did give off a vibe of a more premium feel. But now, with multiple HD, 4K, 8K and whatever personal devices and screens there is in one's lives everywhere, finding a screen on a plane for a domestic flight doesn't feel all that exciting or a specific reason to fly on that airline.

The argument of kids is probably the lamest reason I can see for an airline having PTV's on domestic flights. On a daily basis, what % of flyers are such, that is kids flying. On a regular day, I'm sure these are adults, mostly travelling for work/lesiure- without kids , that constitute the largest chunk of flyers. And with most such having a PED, would it be an important factor for them to choose an airline that has a seat-back screen ? So one must ask what is it that this segment of flyers would want.

The streaming IFE to ones PED'S (with charging ports on seats) is a much better option. Allows one to view stuff on their own device, without touching a screen used by many others. (and I'm sure in a post-covid world, some people are going to carry on few good hygiene practices we all learnt in the pandemic i.e to try and minimize contact with common touch points in public.)

It almost feels like the lines between the US based FSC's, LCC's and ULCC's has blurred so much, that this looks like a desperate and last resort to try and differentiate their product-
i.e by simply installing a silly screen.

I'll give you my experience from the last time I flew in September of 2019. I flew a United Boeing 737-800 from Orlando to Denver, no power ports at my seat, so I couldn't use my laptop, as it wouldn't have lasted the entire flight. I later flew on a Boeing 757-300 to San Diego. Don't remember if it had power ports, but I ended up using my laptop for this flight. On the return trip, I flew a Boeing 737-800 to Houston in first class, and although there were power ports, they didn't work. The result was my laptop battery got drained and I couldn't use it for the entire flight. When we landed in Houston, we ended up trying to recharge both our laptops before jumping onto the next flight. The last flight was on a Boeing 737-900, and the power ports on this one also didn't work, so my laptop quit working shortly after the start of the meal service. So having a portable electronic device does no good if you have limited battery power with no way to keep it charged.
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fun2fly
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:15 pm

On UA, I always look for a 738 as there's a chance of PTV. For long haul 3+ hours domestic flights, I go with DL as I know I'll have one. Never AA. That's the target to get more people over to UA. With 100+ n/b a/c on order, better make the change now.

I wonder if UA will finish the 77A upgrades then, as those are the worst planes in history for 9 hours ORD>Hawaii with 10 across and no TV's. We'll see if the PW issues kill that fleet however.
 
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drerx7
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:05 pm

I honestly don't know what offends the vocal minority about PTVs so much... can't you just turn them off if it offends you? Perception is reality...consumer business 101. Delta has been consistently gaining accolades from these mainstream travel outlets... meanwhile I've had nothing but bad soft product experiences on Delta. I personally look for the UA bird with PTVs for all of the reasons stated by other pro PTV folks on this thread.
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alasizon
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:38 pm

Food for thought, would it be cheaper/easier for UA to deploy some sort of tablet loaner program to connect to the existing Streaming AVOD sort of like AS's old digEplayers that were pre-loaded with content?

A Wi-Fi only tablet playing video should last about 4.5 hours on a full charge.

I get the logistics of changing out the devices and keeping them charged but it sure seems like a custom Android tablet would be cheaper than all the seat replacements and wiring and the MX costs involved with PTVs. Galley space would be an issue although I'm sure UA could find a way to work around that. That way the non-PTV crowd gets their way and the PTV group still gets the experience.
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Scarebus34
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:03 pm

alasizon wrote:
Food for thought, would it be cheaper/easier for UA to deploy some sort of tablet loaner program to connect to the existing Streaming AVOD sort of like AS's old digEplayers that were pre-loaded with content?

A Wi-Fi only tablet playing video should last about 4.5 hours on a full charge.

I get the logistics of changing out the devices and keeping them charged but it sure seems like a custom Android tablet would be cheaper than all the seat replacements and wiring and the MX costs involved with PTVs. Galley space would be an issue although I'm sure UA could find a way to work around that. That way the non-PTV crowd gets their way and the PTV group still gets the experience.

no.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:39 pm

Just as with cars, PTV are very important to customer perceptions and customer experience. Plus, the technology is cheaper, better and more reliable than ever before.

I will even point out PTV are a potential source of advertising revenue. Airline passengers are among the best demographics to advertisers you could possibly imagine. For example, Vail could advertise to passengers going to Rocky Mountain states.

I predict that IFE in the future *might* be ad free in premium class, except specific, ultra exclusive ad messages. But it will not be ad free in Y.
 
kiowa
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:42 pm

d8s wrote:
United1 wrote:
JOSEMEX wrote:
I hope they also bring back Channel 9 while they're at it.


Channel 9 still exists. All 777, 767s and retrofitted 752's have Channel 9 installed. It would not surprise me if it comes back to the narrow body fleet if UA retrofits AVOD screens.

Now if its turned on or not is another story but.....


Always been disappointed the channel 9 was not on the narrow bodies, especially the DirecTV aircraft. That was a CO error....



I believe all the United aircraft had it but the aircraft that came with the Continental purchase did not.
 
United1
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:15 pm

kiowa wrote:
d8s wrote:
United1 wrote:

Channel 9 still exists. All 777, 767s and retrofitted 752's have Channel 9 installed. It would not surprise me if it comes back to the narrow body fleet if UA retrofits AVOD screens.

Now if its turned on or not is another story but.....


Always been disappointed the channel 9 was not on the narrow bodies, especially the DirecTV aircraft. That was a CO error....



I believe all the United aircraft had it but the aircraft that came with the Continental purchase did not.


The 764s, exCO 772s and the retrofitted exCO 752s have Chanel 9 installed.

This is pre Polaris but on pmUA 772s the IFE menu had a dedicated section called from the flight deck. On pmCO 772s if you accessed the inflight map the audio would play channel nine if the flight deck had made it available. I haven't been on a Polarisized exCO 772 yet (although I should be next month) so I am not sure if they standardized the IFE interface. I would assume so as its a different system.
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WidebodyPTV
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Re: United adding seatback IFE - AVOD to older narrow body aircraft

Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:33 pm

drerx7 wrote:
I honestly don't know what offends the vocal minority about PTVs so much... can't you just turn them off if it offends you? Perception is reality...consumer business 101. Delta has been consistently gaining accolades from these mainstream travel outlets... meanwhile I've had nothing but bad soft product experiences on Delta. I personally look for the UA bird with PTVs for all of the reasons stated by other pro PTV folks on this thread.


It's not 'offending a vocal minority,' it's about presenting facts. It's a discussion forum, and several users made the assertion that UA & AA were relinquishing a tremendous amount of revenue by not offering as many PTVs as DL.

Let's consider FACTS:
- In 2019, the average monthly domestic cable/satellite bill was about $120 (this excludes the cost of internet and does not consider commercial subscriptions).
- Depending on the survey, between 40% - 50% of cable/satellite customers reported contacting their provider within the past year for a discount; more than two-thirds reported having done so OR changing services for an introductory rate within the past several years.
- UA and F9 both choose to pull their domestic PTV systems, as the revenue generated from these systems wasn't sufficient to offset the cost.
- F9 and NK do not have PTVs.

So let's re-consider the argument:
- According to a.net, Americans are addicted to TV and are willing to spend hundreds more for a flight in which their family can watch Wendy Williams on a midday flight from Dallas to Orlando. ... Even though nearly 80% of pay TV subscribers feel that average monthly cost of $120 is too much.
- If PTVs were the gold mine as suggested on these forums, why wouldn't F9 and NK offer them? NK could double their revenue on many tickets...

micstatic wrote:
@WidebodyPTV. I've basically flown delta around 100k miles a year last decade. Your claim of 90% of fliers not watching the TV's is far from the reality I've seen on my flights. What I most often see are people multi tasking. IE, a movie/tv show on and also using the wifi on their laptop/tablet/phone. However I do agree with you about AA doing their research. However I think it's clear that Delta/United are attempting to target higher revenue by positioning themselves as a premium airline. American in my opinion appears to be wedged in between the premium carriers and the LCC's.


You must live in an alternate reality. Sure, people will poke at the PTV because it's there, but many never actively engage in it. 90% of the flying public has never been actively engaged in watching a PTV, because there's a large faction of that population who prefers to spend their time doing something else. And that something else has grown over the past decade, particularly as advances in technology have enabled people to bring their own custom content (whether it's audio, video or work) on board.

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