PDX-ICN nonstop is now available for booking on delta.com. Starts September 9. 3x/week. Alongside PDX-HND at 5x/week starts in October.

Schedule:

PDX-ICN (DL 278): 12:35 PM - 5:05 PM (+1) (Mon/Thu/Sat)
ICN-PDX (DL 277): 7:30 PM - 2:25 PM (Sun/Tue/Fri)

A bit of an interesting schedule here. If the A330 aircraft will regularly RON at PDX, that's a lot of idle aircraft time. I wonder if they have something else planned (e.g. a domestic widebody frequency, such as PDX-ATL, which already sees 767s on a regular basis).

AC4500 wrote:

Schedule:

PDX-ICN (DL 278): 12:35 PM - 5:05 PM (+1) (Mon/Thu/Sat)
ICN-PDX (DL 277): 7:30 PM - 2:25 PM (Sun/Tue/Fri)

A bit of an interesting schedule here. If the A330 aircraft will regularly RON at PDX, that's a lot of idle aircraft time. I wonder if they have something else planned (e.g. a domestic widebody frequency, such as PDX-ATL, which already sees 767s on a regular basis).

A PDX-CDG flight perhaps, as PDX-AMS has already departed by the time ICN-PDX arrives.

ANA787 wrote:

AC4500 wrote:

Schedule:

PDX-ICN (DL 278): 12:35 PM - 5:05 PM (+1) (Mon/Thu/Sat)
ICN-PDX (DL 277): 7:30 PM - 2:25 PM (Sun/Tue/Fri)

A bit of an interesting schedule here. If the A330 aircraft will regularly RON at PDX, that's a lot of idle aircraft time. I wonder if they have something else planned (e.g. a domestic widebody frequency, such as PDX-ATL, which already sees 767s on a regular basis).

A PDX-CDG flight perhaps, as PDX-AMS has already departed by the time ICN-PDX arrives.

It could also be a return of the PDX-LHR route too, to provide OW some more competition.

kavok wrote:

ANA787 wrote:

AC4500 wrote:

Schedule:

PDX-ICN (DL 278): 12:35 PM - 5:05 PM (+1) (Mon/Thu/Sat)
ICN-PDX (DL 277): 7:30 PM - 2:25 PM (Sun/Tue/Fri)

A bit of an interesting schedule here. If the A330 aircraft will regularly RON at PDX, that's a lot of idle aircraft time. I wonder if they have something else planned (e.g. a domestic widebody frequency, such as PDX-ATL, which already sees 767s on a regular basis).

A PDX-CDG flight perhaps, as PDX-AMS has already departed by the time ICN-PDX arrives.

It could also be a return of the PDX-LHR route too, to provide OW some more competition.

Given that they have not even started SEA-CDG and are not even able to manage daily flights on SEA-LHR, I would say the probability of both = zero.

onwFan wrote:

kavok wrote:

ANA787 wrote:

A PDX-CDG flight perhaps, as PDX-AMS has already departed by the time ICN-PDX arrives.

It could also be a return of the PDX-LHR route too, to provide OW some more competition.

Given that they have not even started SEA-CDG and are not even able to manage daily flights on SEA-LHR, I would say the probability of both = zero.

Agreed, especially in light of the travel restrictions and quarantine requirements in Korea and Japan.

Anything in October is placeholders at this point for the schedule. Really doesn't mean anything in these unprecedented times.

If ICN works I would guess/expect it it to replace HND regardless of what delta says or loads on the schedule. "Market conditions have changed" is what delta will say. They never come out and say these things. They also may have cargo contracts or things that resuming tokyo is needed for a while or that they don't want to rock the boat. I could easily see both or one get delayed too we are in unprecedented times and demand is gonna come back very unevenly. It's hard for anyone to know where demand will be for October all the old rules or norms are out the window. This pandemic has changed so much , never been harder to predict future demand. Both might be bullish loads tbh and delta expects them to get pushed back, no one can say for certain even delta has no idea demand that far away

kavok wrote:

ANA787 wrote:

A PDX-CDG flight perhaps, as PDX-AMS has already departed by the time ICN-PDX arrives.

It could also be a return of the PDX-LHR route too, to provide OW some more competition.

BA dropped plans for that route:
https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/07/2 ... -portland/

Surprisingly, it looks like ICN Airport had an official press release public for the past two days: https://www.airport.kr/co/ko/cmm/cmmBbs ... T_ID=25245

It's in Korean and only on the Korean version of the website. When switching to another language, the press release disappears.

Ishrion wrote:

Surprisingly, it looks like ICN Airport had an official press release public for the past two days: https://www.airport.kr/co/ko/cmm/cmmBbs ... T_ID=25245

It's in Korean and only on the Korean version of the website. When switching to another language, the press release disappears.

I don’t know if the translation is accurate or not, but it seems to say ‘The Incheon-Portland route is expected to be the only direct route connecting the Asia-Pacific region and Portland’.

Ishrion wrote:

Surprisingly, it looks like ICN Airport had an official press release public for the past two days: https://www.airport.kr/co/ko/cmm/cmmBbs ... T_ID=25245

It's in Korean and only on the Korean version of the website. When switching to another language, the press release disappears.

How strange...I'm still able to read the English version.......

LAX772LR wrote:

Western727 wrote:

DTWLAX wrote:

SLC does not have the O&D to sustain SLC-ICN. And connections are best routed through SEA, LAX, DTW, ATL and MSP?

My thoughts exactly. Further, DL isn't friends with AS anymore either, so who would feed the ICN flight at PDX? And the SEA native in me knows that PDX has a much less ethnically-diverse population than SEA, SFO and LAX, so this has me scratching my head. Can someone please shed light on the logic behind this flight? I must be missing something.

Indeed, you are: you're wayyyyy overthinking it.

They're not trying to start the next stateside Asian hub, thus there's no reason to compare PDX to the likes of LAX/SFO/SEA.

This is just a 3xWk flight, to an Asian superhub capable of Eastern connections to anywhere, from a US metro with a decent history of sustaining at least one flight to Asia, and from whom DL has been successful in retaining the majority of the longhaul business travel.

That's it. Not really all that complicated.

Spot on. Couldn't have said it better.

For transfer traffic, the distinction between HND and NRT is somewhat overstated IMHO; Indeed on some airlines (NH for instance), one could argue that their facilities at NRT are equal or preferable to those at HND. But, assuming ICN commences, doesn't that leave PDX-TYO as essentially destination-origin if at HND? Or is this supplemented by connections at the PDX end? I can't for the life of me see that this would be significant in terms of passenger numbers given DL's current footprint at PDX. Or, is there remaining, a substantial need for connections to/from destinations in Asia beyond TYO? Can't see the connectivity at HND would be optimal in that regard. This all determines the airport of preference at TYO, surely. I'd say with HND staying, it'd be clear that DL see ICN as the Asian connection hub and they are staying in Japan for premium origin-destination traffic to/from PDX, primarily. Simply because PDX remains a solid and important destination for DL.

Delta press release: https://news.delta.com/deltas-athens-se ... -fall-2021

onwFan wrote:

Ishrion wrote:

Surprisingly, it looks like ICN Airport had an official press release public for the past two days: https://www.airport.kr/co/ko/cmm/cmmBbs ... T_ID=25245

It's in Korean and only on the Korean version of the website. When switching to another language, the press release disappears.

I don’t know if the translation is accurate or not, but it seems to say ‘The Incheon-Portland route is expected to be the only direct route connecting the Asia-Pacific region and Portland’.

I think that refers to all the possible one-stop connections that are possible via ICN. If Delta continues to fly PDX-TYO, it would strictly be an O&D route.

Midwestindy wrote:

kavok wrote:

ANA787 wrote:

A PDX-CDG flight perhaps, as PDX-AMS has already departed by the time ICN-PDX arrives.

It could also be a return of the PDX-LHR route too, to provide OW some more competition.

BA dropped plans for that route:
https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/07/2 ... -portland/

This says nothing. It was written in July 2020 and said that BA was suspending the route before it started due to the Pandemic. It states nothing about BA’s long-term plans for PDX.

Nothing right now is “permanent”.

Also, don’t overlook the long term value of a HND (or LHR) slot.

DL is not going to make a decision on whether or not to “officially drop” PDX-HND based on 2021 market conditions. They probably won’t rely on 2022 either, if they think by 2023 or 2024 they can at least break even on the PDX-HND route. HND slots are near impossible to get, and DL is not going to forfeit their HND slot to AA/UA unless the long term cost is not worth it.

That all being said, DL will continue to delay the start of PDX-HND as long as they can, using Covid as a justification for doing so. So they may launch in October, or if they can get an additional waiver until 2022, they may wait until then. But the HND slot is too valuable to make a long term decision on based off of short term conditions.

Similarly, if LHR slots become use-it-or-lose-it again, DL may opt to relaunch PDX-LHR if they need to fly from LHR to somewhere, even if that operates at a loss in the near term. Again, any decision involving HND and LHR are going to be long term considerations for DL, and if slot waivers go away, DL very well may choose to fly half empty planes there in the near term.

Sorry if this has been noted - but in DL's release it says that by summer 2022 the service will include Premium Select. Does DL expect the 332s to be refitted or are they insinuating the equipment will be different?

jb1087xna wrote:

Sorry if this has been noted - but in DL's release it says that by summer 2022 the service will include Premium Select. Does DL expect the 332s to be refitted or are they insinuating the equipment will be different?

I'm guessing they're implying that the A332s will be reconfigured to include Premium Select by summer 2022.

Could we see the following from DL:
1) SEA-MNL (replaces ICN-MNL maybe on the A359 or A339)
2) LAX-ICN (replaces KE on one of the frequencies)

rjbesikof wrote:

Could we see the following from DL:
1) SEA-MNL (replaces ICN-MNL maybe on the A359 or A339)

DL is not in any position to launch such an ambitious route. But however, I do wonder if PR is still considering this route. I believe PR added this route just before COVID hit.

rjbesikof wrote:

Could we see the following from DL:
2) LAX-ICN (replaces KE on one of the frequencies)

This one is certainly possible, but there probably isn't the need since their JV partner has this one pretty well covered.

kavok wrote:

Also, don’t overlook the long term value of a HND (or LHR) slot.

DL is not going to make a decision on whether or not to “officially drop” PDX-HND based on 2021 market conditions. They probably won’t rely on 2022 either, if they think by 2023 or 2024 they can at least break even on the PDX-HND route. HND slots are near impossible to get, and DL is not going to forfeit their HND slot to AA/UA unless the long term cost is not worth it.

That all being said, DL will continue to delay the start of PDX-HND as long as they can, using Covid as a justification for doing so. So they may launch in October, or if they can get an additional waiver until 2022, they may wait until then. But the HND slot is too valuable to make a long term decision on based off of short term conditions.

Similarly, if LHR slots become use-it-or-lose-it again, DL may opt to relaunch PDX-LHR if they need to fly from LHR to somewhere, even if that operates at a loss in the near term. Again, any decision involving HND and LHR are going to be long term considerations for DL, and if slot waivers go away, DL very well may choose to fly half empty planes there in the near term.

PDX-LHR is not going to happen again, unless DL decides to move its SEA hub to PDX (which also I don’t see happening). It was simply an opportunistic route that benefitted from AA’s weakness in the Pacific Northwest. One could say PDX-TYO was a legacy market for DL, but that too has probably lost its shine now.

BA will launch LHR-PDX pretty soon, and certainly if DL launches it... When was the last time DL had an upper edge to BA/AA on a route to LHR? And especially on a OW hub to OW hub route with no feed at both ends? No way. DL has plenty other ways to burn lesser money such as bringing back second dailies from DTW or ATL or MSP or even flying SLC-LHR than competing with BA.

rjbesikof wrote:

Could we see the following from DL:
1) SEA-MNL (replaces ICN-MNL maybe on the A359 or A339)
2) LAX-ICN (replaces KE on one of the frequencies)

LAX-ICN and JFK-ICN on DL metal will certainly happen if the KE/OZ merger goes through. And SLC-ICN. There is no way DL pilots will agree to let the JV get even more skewed towards KE.

onwFan wrote:

rjbesikof wrote:

Could we see the following from DL:
1) SEA-MNL (replaces ICN-MNL maybe on the A359 or A339)
2) LAX-ICN (replaces KE on one of the frequencies)

LAX-ICN and JFK-ICN on DL metal will certainly happen if the KE/OZ merger goes through. And SLC-ICN. There is no way DL pilots will agree to let the JV get even more skewed towards KE.

IDK about SLC-ICN.... I know Ed Bastian specifically mentioned this route, so I guess it could happen, but SLC just isn't very well positioned geographically for flights to Asia, along with lower O&D numbers. The route would have to mostly rely on connections from Midwestern U.S. markets that DL does not fly to from SEA (or PDX). This is why there aren't any PHX-TYO nonstop flights despite major OW hubs on each end--because LAX is a much larger O&D market for Asia-bound travelers than PHX is, just like SEA is a much larger Asia-bound O&D market than SLC. However, DEN-NRT does exist with SA hubs on each end, but unlike SLC and PHX, DEN is actually a major O&D market for travelers to/from Asia.

I wonder if this could get DL interested in reopening PDX-LAS, especially with leisure travel recovering the way it has.

Midwestindy wrote:

I wonder if this could get DL interested in reopening PDX-LAS, especially with leisure travel recovering the way it has.

AS is operating just 2x daily flights on PDX-LAS in the summer (only 1 flight on Saturdays). It's normally at least 4 daily flights. There's definitely space for DL in the market if they're interested in trying it again.

[*]

Midwestindy wrote:

I wonder if this could get DL interested in reopening PDX-LAS, especially with leisure travel recovering the way it has.

Interesting thought- although I always thought that PDX seems to be overserved with flights to Vegas with NK, AS, F9, WN- although Vegas is a different beast altogether so you could definitely be wright.

Oh onwFan..you seem like you know DLs every next move. But here they are planning to fly ICN and HND.

toobz wrote:

Oh onwFan..you seem like you know DLs every next move. But here they are planning to fly ICN and HND.

Of course, I have no doubt that ‘they are planning to fly’ the route till the HND slot waivers exist. A lot of airlines are ‘planning to fly’ a lot of routes even two months out, and they don’t end up flying them...

Midwestindy wrote:

I wonder if this could get DL interested in reopening PDX-LAS, especially with leisure travel recovering the way it has.

I was thinking the same thing. I know DL intended to fly 2 flights a day I think from PDX to LAS and vice versa and it was timed to help feed the PDX-HND route as the PDX-HND was the last TYO flight for Delta for the day. I wonder if they will also add other routes to help feed the HND/ICN flights should they continue to perform.

Delta is selling seats on PDX-HND beginning 30 October, operating Sun, Mon, Wed, Thur, Sat. When the dust finally settles, we'll likely see Delta operating Portland to Seoul, Tokyo, Amsterdam and London. I don't see PDX-LHR going from two flights to zero flights indefinitely. Delta was already expanding the flight even in the face of competition from British Airways. By the way, there are currently five SEA-LHR nonstops scheduled beginning this summer. That makes no sense. There are only five from the Bay Area to London. Someone will blink.

pnwpdx wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

I wonder if this could get DL interested in reopening PDX-LAS, especially with leisure travel recovering the way it has.

I was thinking the same thing. I know DL intended to fly 2 flights a day I think from PDX to LAS and vice versa and it was timed to help feed the PDX-HND route as the PDX-HND was the last TYO flight for Delta for the day. I wonder if they will also add other routes to help feed the HND/ICN flights should they continue to perform.

DL/KE could just start LAS-ICN with a 339 or 787. I don't see the point of trying to build connections with high cost aircraft and lack of frequency or destination set. PDX isn't SEA.

Please stay on topic rather than debating things such as whether PDX-LHR will return or going on about whether planned routes not connected to PDX-ICN will be flown.

AC4500 wrote:

This one is certainly possible, but there probably isn't the need since their JV partner has this one pretty well covered.

If KE finalizes a merger with OZ, then the third flight could just as easily be a DL A339/359, as that'd balance out the j/v reciprocity requirements, and likely correspond to current traffic better than a third A380 would.

onwFan wrote:

PDX-LHR is not going to happen again

You have no way of knowing that...

onwFan wrote:

BA will launch LHR-PDX pretty soon

...nor that, particularly seeing as how the airline has given nil indication of such a launch since last year, and PDX has not appeared in any of their summer schedules, unlike the resumption of the likes of AUS/MSY/BNA.

onwFan wrote:

When was the last time DL had an upper edge to BA/AA on a route to LHR?

BA is an airline, not a magician. If they're losing money and/or do not command the point of sail such that an opportunity-cost is created, they bail. Like any airline would. We saw that in DTW, when BA pulled out after decades of service, whereas NW/DL added additional LON service thereafter.

DL also dominates BA on ATL-LHR, for what should be obvious reasons.

MIflyer12 wrote:

DL/KE could just start LAS-ICN with a 339 or 787.

KE already flies (immediately pre-covid) ICN-LAS.

Interesting add by DL. Is there any timeframe for them to bring back MSP-ICN?

OA412 wrote:

Please stay on topic rather than debating things such as whether PDX-LHR will return or going on about whether planned routes not connected to PDX-ICN will be flown.

Sorry I missed this. Disregard my previous post.

This new route will almost certainly be for connections beyond ICN to places such as Thailand, Singapore, and the Philippines if it does wind up launching during the pandemic.

AC4500 wrote:

Schedule:

PDX-ICN (DL 278): 12:35 PM - 5:05 PM (+1) (Mon/Thu/Sat)
ICN-PDX (DL 277): 7:30 PM - 2:25 PM (Sun/Tue/Fri)

A bit of an interesting schedule here. If the A330 aircraft will regularly RON at PDX, that's a lot of idle aircraft time. I wonder if they have something else planned (e.g. a domestic widebody frequency, such as PDX-ATL, which already sees 767s on a regular basis).

Where is the schedule posted? The DL news hub article does not specify the timings.
Pretty sure there will be a domestic route for aircraft utilization. Also, the aircraft is not going to sit at PDX from Tuesday afternoon to Thursday morning.

Is PDX-AMS using a A332 or A333?

DTWLAX wrote:

AC4500 wrote:

Schedule:

PDX-ICN (DL 278): 12:35 PM - 5:05 PM (+1) (Mon/Thu/Sat)
ICN-PDX (DL 277): 7:30 PM - 2:25 PM (Sun/Tue/Fri)

A bit of an interesting schedule here. If the A330 aircraft will regularly RON at PDX, that's a lot of idle aircraft time. I wonder if they have something else planned (e.g. a domestic widebody frequency, such as PDX-ATL, which already sees 767s on a regular basis).

Where is the schedule posted? The DL news hub article does not specify the timings.
Pretty sure there will be a domestic route for aircraft utilization. Also, the aircraft is not going to sit at PDX from Tuesday afternoon to Thursday morning.

Is PDX-AMS using a A332 or A333?

Flight schedules on delta.com and AMS is scheduled now as an A332.

AC4500 wrote:

Schedule:

PDX-ICN (DL 278): 12:35 PM - 5:05 PM (+1) (Mon/Thu/Sat)
ICN-PDX (DL 277): 7:30 PM - 2:25 PM (Sun/Tue/Fri)

A bit of an interesting schedule here. If the A330 aircraft will regularly RON at PDX, that's a lot of idle aircraft time. I wonder if they have something else planned (e.g. a domestic widebody frequency, such as PDX-ATL, which already sees 767s on a regular basis).

It appears the aircraft will RON at PDX until the next day-haven’t been able to find a schedule where the aircraft continues on to. Any updates on this?

ANA787 wrote:

AC4500 wrote:

Schedule:

PDX-ICN (DL 278): 12:35 PM - 5:05 PM (+1) (Mon/Thu/Sat)
ICN-PDX (DL 277): 7:30 PM - 2:25 PM (Sun/Tue/Fri)

A bit of an interesting schedule here. If the A330 aircraft will regularly RON at PDX, that's a lot of idle aircraft time. I wonder if they have something else planned (e.g. a domestic widebody frequency, such as PDX-ATL, which already sees 767s on a regular basis).

It appears the aircraft will RON at PDX until the next day-haven’t been able to find a schedule where the aircraft continues on to. Any updates on this?

I would say that it's still way too early to tell.

If the aircraft does RON at PDX, I think it would continue to AMS/HND the following day, not return to ICN as I don't believe there are any other Delta A332 routes to/from ICN. I'm guessing the schedule would look something like (AMS/HND ---> PDX ---> ICN ---> PDX ---> AMS/HND).

However, I'm willing to bet that the more likely scenario would be that Delta schedules an A332 alongside other daily 737s/757s/767s, etc. on ATL-PDX-ATL at 3x weekly (ATL ---> PDX ---> ICN ---> PDX ---> ATL). For Delta, the upside to this would be that the aircraft would not require a RON at PDX (assuming they have another crew at PDX to swap out), but the downside for Delta would be that the inbound PDX-ATL flight would arrive in Atlanta very late, so connections there would be very minimal.

Not sure if someone has mentioned this, but it looks to be that Delta will be utilizing the same aircraft for ICN-MNL (A332). So Delta will definitely be rotating these aircrafts. Does anyone know if Delta is sending any other A332's to ICN or will they rely on the PDX route for the aircraft utilization?

pnwpdx wrote:

Not sure if someone has mentioned this, but it looks to be that Delta will be utilizing the same aircraft for ICN-MNL (A332). So Delta will definitely be rotating these aircrafts. Does anyone know if Delta is sending any other A332's to ICN or will they rely on the PDX route for the aircraft utilization?

I thought ICN-MNL was on the A339neo, but I'm not seeing that route in Delta's schedules at all.

Maybe DL will put the A332 on the PDX-SEA route...LOL! I think SEA is still an Airbus maintenance base for DL.

AC4500 wrote:

pnwpdx wrote:

Not sure if someone has mentioned this, but it looks to be that Delta will be utilizing the same aircraft for ICN-MNL (A332). So Delta will definitely be rotating these aircrafts. Does anyone know if Delta is sending any other A332's to ICN or will they rely on the PDX route for the aircraft utilization?

I thought ICN-MNL was on the A339neo, but I'm not seeing that route in Delta's schedules at all.

It was an A332, but it looks they dropped the ICN-MNL flight with this weekend's update. PDX-AMS is also an A332 but timings don't really work for rotations. I think that one may be rotating with AMS-SLC which is also an A332. As noted above, DL could end up scheduling an A332 on SLC-ATL.

wedgetail737 wrote:

Maybe DL will put the A332 on the PDX-SEA route...LOL! I think SEA is still an Airbus maintenance base for DL.

That would be hilarious... I'd book that flight just for the heck of it... Personally, I would like them to put the A332 on LAX-PDX since I travel this route every two or three weeks, but they currently don't have any A332 routes based in LAX at the moment.

I think it'll most likely be ATL-PDX / PDX-ATL, as that route already regularly sees 1 or 2 daily 767s. It wouldn't be too difficult for them to swap out a 767 with an A332.

When Delta had their PDX Asia hub back in the day, they flew widebodies on ATL-PDX before flying onward to Asia.

AC4500 wrote:

When Delta had their PDX Asia hub back in the day, they flew widebodies on ATL-PDX before flying onward to Asia.

They even flew CVG-PDX with the MD-11, circa 1999.

Looks like DL intends to fly PDX-ICN daily in Spring 2022. The most recent schedule update has both PDX-HND and PDX-ICN at daily from March 26,2022.

ANA787 wrote:

Looks like DL intends to fly PDX-ICN daily in Spring 2022. The most recent schedule update has both PDX-HND and PDX-ICN at daily from March 26,2022.

Interesting development. March 2022 is so far away from now that things are bound to change. Hopefully that frequency level can stick as travel demand continues to improve overtime.

I really do think that PDX-HND will end up sticking around for the long-term, even alongside PDX-ICN. As for both the flights operating daily side-by-side, I'm not sure how feasible that is, but I guess we'll find out. After all, they aren't going to just give up a valuable HND slot that one of their competitors could easily pick up otherwise. Not to mention the valuable NIKE business that they would end up losing if they did end Portland's staple transpacific route that has been around for decades.

Delta has been playing defense in SEA ever since the AA/AS tie-up and AS joining OW. Just look at SEA-LHR this year...DL had abandoned it and only restarted it when AA did. Now my sense is that DL worries about AA launching SEA-ICN to compliment DFW-ICN and doesn’t want to risk losing out all the passengers they funnel up from PDX to AS/AA so they’re launching n/s PDX-ICN to guarantee as much % of passenger traffic they can. I believe for DL this will be a loss leader. If PDX was capable of sustaining TYO & Seoul service why didn’t it have it in the golden days (pre-pandemic 2010-2020)? This is just DL doing whatever it can to protect its investment in the PNW as its Asian hub.

Feel free to fire away as I know it’s going to ruffle a lot of feathers. But I just don’t see how this is profitable for DL.