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Ishrion
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AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:02 pm

BOS-CVG/YYZ/STL

LGA-IAH/OKC/OMA

JFK-DEL 3x weekly 777-200ER starting October 31. Daily from Nov. 17 to Jan. 3

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx
 
PHLspecial
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:11 pm

Did not see that coming, wow quite a launch. Also good to see AA expanding BOS as well. Quite bold but hey I hope this goes well for them.
Also I see there is going to be an airside connection from terminal 5 to terminal 8 this summer.
 
OKCDCA
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:14 pm

LGA-OKC was announced pre-pandemic but never got off the ground. Was curious if it would ever fly post-pandemic so happy to see them announce it. When it was originally announced it was YX E175 and I assume will be again. No mention of when it will start though...
 
rjbesikof
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:14 pm

JFK-DEL Makes a lot more sense than SEA-BLR. Also, LAX-BOS will go A321T.
Last edited by rjbesikof on Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
UALFAson
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:16 pm

That's pretty disingenuous to say you have "the fastest growing network from the United States to India," especially when you're counting a non-Indian airline partner in the mix to get you there. Starting from a baseline of 0 flights, any addition is going to be a huge increase. I'm sure UA with its 5 U.S.-India nonstop routes in the works would take issue with this.

On a personal note, interesting to see B6 is adding BNA-LGA service. Does that mean they are replacing AA on the route or will they both operate it (the wording in the press release is unclear)? The previously announced AA codeshare on B6's BNA-BOS flights helps AA fill a big hole for BNA-based frequent flyers like me.
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SESGDL
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:19 pm

Really odd to see AA starting more new international service during a pandemic than it did pre-pandemic, when traffic was exponentially larger. Even with the B6 partnership, I can't see how many of these aren't going to be massive money losers. AA's recent pushes have seemed like opportunistic moves to keep airplanes in the air. I just can't see the long-term sustainability of all of this "growth." But I could be wrong.

Jeremy
 
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DL747400
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:35 pm

AA has no choice but to lash out and start throwing darts at the dartboard. With their massive debt load relative to their peers, they have no choice but to make every attempt to generate revenue. Time will tell how this all plays out.
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MIflyer12
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:39 pm

SESGDL wrote:
Really odd to see AA starting more new international service during a pandemic than it did pre-pandemic, when traffic was exponentially larger.


There's another way to look at the economics of this. Pre-pandemic, a prospective new route was competing with every other widebody route, and with frequency adds on those routes. Now, with some routes that are obviously weak and not conceivably worth flying (uh, PHL-Bologna), there's ample widebody capacity and the key question isn't 'Will this make more than another xxx-LHR?' but 'Will this cover variable cost?' As business travel remains depressed and some borders remain closed it's going to be a pretty comprehensive rebuilding of the long-haul networks.
 
NZ321
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:42 pm

Will be interesting to see whether India starts this year. Given the current situation it's surely possible this start-date might need to be deferred.
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nc3rd
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:45 pm

I take it all the AA ads are RJ/175s except DEL?
The views written above are mine and mine alone and do not represent any official information from any airline or company
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:46 pm

BOS LGA routes have some oldie but goodie routes for AA

IAH was HOU. OKC is new.

Nothing crazy there
 
dfw88
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:50 pm

nc3rd wrote:
I take it all the AA ads are RJ/175s except DEL?


Most, but not all. According to CrankyFlier the following are on other equipment:
BOS-STL - A319
LGA-IAH - A319
 
bnatraveler
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:02 pm

UALFAson wrote:
On a personal note, interesting to see B6 is adding BNA-LGA service. Does that mean they are replacing AA on the route or will they both operate it (the wording in the press release is unclear)? The previously announced AA codeshare on B6's BNA-BOS flights helps AA fill a big hole for BNA-based frequent flyers like me.


I noticed the same thing. With the published schedule, we now have 4 carriers BNA-LGA with robust offerings (WN, DL, AA and B6) plus DL/AA/B6 on BNA-JFK and UA/NK on BNA-EWR. I would expect that we'll see some cuts given the lack of business travel and overall lower demand environment with such a large number of flights and carriers.
Last edited by bnatraveler on Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:02 pm

nc3rd wrote:
I take it all the AA ads are RJ/175s except DEL?


They are actually taking the 1980's-1990's WN approach and using the 175 on DEL...it will be 25 stops. :rotfl:
 
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Irehdna
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:03 pm

Good to get OW nonstop NYC to India.

Only curious if the 77E will be restricted JFK bound. Surprised the flight is not on the 789. Iirc RR 77E have a notably shorter range than GE 77E (which UA uses for its DEL flight). LY's LAX flight (similar distance to DEL-JFK) pushed the limits of the RR 77E.

Notable is that AI cut JFK to 4x weekly; the other 3 flights to to EWR.
 
onwFan
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:13 pm

One thing is sure - It is getting more and more difficult to argue that the AA/B6 is anti-competitive. They are finally doing what both have wanted to do for a long time, but couldn’t do alone. No matter what, NYC and BOS customers are the winners...
 
USAirALB
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:16 pm

BOS-YYZ/STL are both technically resumptions. Easy way for B6 to somewhat market themselves in Canada without actually having to fly to Canada. BOS-CVG is interesting as it hits DL right when they are in the middle of downsizing CVG to a spoke from a focus city.

I wonder if BOS-BNA is next. ORF/GSO also seem like logical adds.

Edit: I wonder how much the A321T decision is based on AA reducing JFK-LAX/SFO frequencies and having nowhere to put the planes. Both UA/DL/AA have all tried having a flat bed product on BOS-LAX before, and DL seemed to be the only one left although it looks like they too have also dropped flat bed-equipped aircraft from the market.

I wonder if they would try putting them on DCA-LAX.
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UpNAWAy
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:22 pm

SESGDL wrote:
Really odd to see AA starting more new international service during a pandemic than it did pre-pandemic, when traffic was exponentially larger. Even with the B6 partnership, I can't see how many of these aren't going to be massive money losers. AA's recent pushes have seemed like opportunistic moves to keep airplanes in the air. I just can't see the long-term sustainability of all of this "growth." But I could be wrong.

Jeremy


it is actually a low risk time to try new things especially with widebodies that have a huge shortage of destinations to fly to right now.
Now assuming International as a whole returns in summer 2022 or 23 they will put them on the more profitable routes, but in the meantime they may get some incremental revenue and introduce more folks to AA and even possibly create a new viable market (for AA) if they get lucky.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:25 pm

USAirALB wrote:
BOS-YYZ/STL are both technically resumptions. Easy way for B6 to somewhat market themselves in Canada without actually having to fly to Canada. BOS-CVG is interesting as it hits DL right when they are in the middle of downsizing CVG to a spoke from a focus city.

I wonder if BOS-BNA is next. ORF/GSO also seem like logical adds.


BOS-BNA/GSO would also be resumptions. MQ flew BNA-BOS in the early jet days, and PI flew BOS-GSO at least in the 80s. PI was actually pretty large at BOS in the 80s, with commuter service to ABE, ACY, ALB, and BTV just before the merger. I don't think anyone in the AA family tree has ever done BOS-ORF.
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ContinentalEWR
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:31 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
Really odd to see AA starting more new international service during a pandemic than it did pre-pandemic, when traffic was exponentially larger. Even with the B6 partnership, I can't see how many of these aren't going to be massive money losers. AA's recent pushes have seemed like opportunistic moves to keep airplanes in the air. I just can't see the long-term sustainability of all of this "growth." But I could be wrong.

Jeremy


it is actually a low risk time to try new things especially with widebodies that have a huge shortage of destinations to fly to right now.
Now assuming International as a whole returns in summer 2022 or 23 they will put them on the more profitable routes, but in the meantime they may get some incremental revenue and introduce more folks to AA and even possibly create a new viable market (for AA) if they get lucky.


That is very accurate. The problem here is that the US3 all need intercontinental flights to capture revenue and business traffic. The problem is that 80% of the world is essentially off limits, and it sounds like the State Department and the Biden Administration more broadly plan to maintain such advisories as COVID rates are rising around the world, notably in Asia, India, Brazil (of course), Chile, Argentina, and in Europe, the situation is far from under control. At the moment, the airlines have little choice but to add routes, even at low frequencies, to try and capture revenue, but it will be very challenging absent meaningful business travel, which really does not look promising for a return in 2021.

JFK-DEL on AA is interesting. They'll be going up against UA at EWR, which has been established in the market for years (CO launched EWR-DEL/BOM long before the merger), and AA will face pricing headwinds from EK, QR, and maybe even Etihad. Then there is AI. I don't see traffic to India being all that meaningful this year, but if the 772 they put on this route can carry cargo profitably, it makes sense. What's amazing is how far and wide AA (with B6) are going after DL at JFK and the NE airports covered by the partnership where there is overlap.
 
nc3rd
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:38 pm

This all seems more like giving jetblue an "Express" carrier and growing them into a full service airline and less about doing anything healthy for AA.
The views written above are mine and mine alone and do not represent any official information from any airline or company
 
x1234
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:39 pm

I wish AA would start JFK-BOM/BLR competing with UA/DL. Due to limited non-stop competition UA's EWR-BOM is on a high J 77W instead of the 789. I guess AA didn't want to compete with DL on JFK-BOM.
Last edited by x1234 on Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
USPIT10L
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:40 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
BOS-YYZ/STL are both technically resumptions. Easy way for B6 to somewhat market themselves in Canada without actually having to fly to Canada. BOS-CVG is interesting as it hits DL right when they are in the middle of downsizing CVG to a spoke from a focus city.

I wonder if BOS-BNA is next. ORF/GSO also seem like logical adds.


BOS-BNA/GSO would also be resumptions. MQ flew BNA-BOS in the early jet days, and PI flew BOS-GSO at least in the 80s. PI was actually pretty large at BOS in the 80s, with commuter service to ABE, ACY, ALB, and BTV just before the merger. I don't think anyone in the AA family tree has ever done BOS-ORF.


Both US and PI flew BOSORF.
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ContinentalEWR
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:40 pm

BOS-LAX on the 321T is something AA has offered before the pandemic, briefly, as a way to increase 321T utilization (321Ts were often used on JFK-BOS-JFK). AA put the 321T on one of its BOS-LAX frequencies. It is great to see them doing this, notably as DL retreats to 737-800s on all BOS-LAX flights (4 daily) but it will be interesting to see if they can fill the business cabin on the 321T with corporate travel a very long way from coming back.
 
Vctony
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:41 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
Really odd to see AA starting more new international service during a pandemic than it did pre-pandemic, when traffic was exponentially larger. Even with the B6 partnership, I can't see how many of these aren't going to be massive money losers. AA's recent pushes have seemed like opportunistic moves to keep airplanes in the air. I just can't see the long-term sustainability of all of this "growth." But I could be wrong.

Jeremy


it is actually a low risk time to try new things especially with widebodies that have a huge shortage of destinations to fly to right now.
Now assuming International as a whole returns in summer 2022 or 23 they will put them on the more profitable routes, but in the meantime they may get some incremental revenue and introduce more folks to AA and even possibly create a new viable market (for AA) if they get lucky.


That is very accurate. The problem here is that the US3 all need intercontinental flights to capture revenue and business traffic. The problem is that 80% of the world is essentially off limits, and it sounds like the State Department and the Biden Administration more broadly plan to maintain such advisories as COVID rates are rising around the world, notably in Asia, India, Brazil (of course), Chile, Argentina, and in Europe, the situation is far from under control. At the moment, the airlines have little choice but to add routes, even at low frequencies, to try and capture revenue, but it will be very challenging absent meaningful business travel, which really does not look promising for a return in 2021.

JFK-DEL on AA is interesting. They'll be going up against UA at EWR, which has been established in the market for years (CO launched EWR-DEL/BOM long before the merger), and AA will face pricing headwinds from EK, QR, and maybe even Etihad. Then there is AI. I don't see traffic to India being all that meaningful this year, but if the 772 they put on this route can carry cargo profitably, it makes sense. What's amazing is how far and wide AA (with B6) are going after DL at JFK and the NE airports covered by the partnership where there is overlap.


DL may have cut too much domestic capacity during COVID with the retirement of the MD-88s/MD-90s/717s/777s. I know AA has cut capacity as well but AA has more new aircraft in the pipeline and has some flexibility with the 738s that DL doesn't.
 
Philly65
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:47 pm

So once again the question will be raised of the status of PHL as the primary trans-atlantic gateway. ATH, TLV and now DEL all served from JFK/NYC, an over served market with lower yields. Effectively AA is outsourcing their feed on trans-atlantic.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:57 pm

Philly65 wrote:
So once again the question will be raised of the status of PHL as the primary trans-atlantic gateway. ATH, TLV and now DEL all served from JFK/NYC, an over served market with lower yields. Effectively AA is outsourcing their feed on trans-atlantic.

According to Vasu no. I don't trust that one bit. Vasu blames the retirement of the a330 why can't fly to ATH from PHL or other routes. It tells me two things, first PHL is a reliver hub from now on and two a333 might been better suit for PHLATH then the heavier 772. More importantly is focused on o/d from NYC instead of connecting passengers through PHL. PHL is going to be quiet for the next two years.
 
tphuang
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:57 pm

USAirALB wrote:
BOS-YYZ/STL are both technically resumptions. Easy way for B6 to somewhat market themselves in Canada without actually having to fly to Canada. BOS-CVG is interesting as it hits DL right when they are in the middle of downsizing CVG to a spoke from a focus city.

I wonder if BOS-BNA is next. ORF/GSO also seem like logical adds.

Edit: I wonder how much the A321T decision is based on AA reducing JFK-LAX/SFO frequencies and having nowhere to put the planes. Both UA/DL/AA have all tried having a flat bed product on BOS-LAX before, and DL seemed to be the only one left although it looks like they too have also dropped flat bed-equipped aircraft from the market.

I wonder if they would try putting them on DCA-LAX.


Take a look at what they are doing with these new markets. They are not competing with each other. AA is not going to try BOS-BNA. ORF seems more likely.

As for A321T, they are just trying to find ways to utilize that fleet. It didn't work the first time on BOS-LAX. Their yield was terrible for such a low density aircraft. They couldn't sell F seats. I don't see it lasting very long. At end of the day, AA's best move is to just reconfigure the A321T to something less premium.

I don't see BOS-YYZ working out either. AC is too dominant and AA's costs are too high.
 
RemoFlyer
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:59 pm

x1234 wrote:
I wish AA would start JFK-BOM/BLR competing with UA/DL. Due to limited non-stop competition UA's EWR-BOM is on a high J 77W instead of the 789. I guess AA didn't want to compete with DL on JFK-BOM.


DL doesnt fly JFK BOM anymore, they quit the route in 2020 due to covid, got rid of the 777lr that was the aircraft for it, and have no aircraft to effectively fly it anymore.
 
tphuang
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:14 pm

also, this actually did surprise me from CF's interview with Vasu.
That brought up several questions for me. First, is JetBlue already delivering these gains on existing flights? I was surprised when Vasu told me “in terms of raw bookings, JetBlue has become our largest codeshare partner in the one or two months it’s been out there.” He said not to read too far into this since JetBlue’s leisure focus and the big reduction in international have impacted the numbers dramatically. But he did add that, as an example, American is seeing bookings roll in on off-peak days to the Caribbean from jetblue.com, and these are bookings it hadn’t seen before. So something is working.


Also, this part from the JetBlue announcement is quite important
On sale May 3, 2021, JetBlue will place its “B6” code and American will place its “AA” code on more than 30 combined additional markets. The newest codeshare routes are made up of a variety of markets including short and medium haul flights linking major cities, transcon flying and routes serving unique leisure destinations. In the coming months, Customers will see further expansion in code, bringing the total to over 40 new markets, as well as expand the ability to book connecting flights between the two carriers on one itinerary. All flights will be for sale on jetblue.com, making booking easy and familiar to JetBlue Customers.

A long-standing industry practice, codesharing allows travelers to book directly with their preferred airline for flights operated by a partner airline. It’s one more way JetBlue brings its award-winning customer service to the new alliance.

Over time, customers of both JetBlue’s TrueBlue and American’s AAdvantage® programs will be able to enjoy reciprocal benefits. This will begin in the coming weeks with the ability to earn points or miles on either carrier, enhancing the value of both loyalty programs to all flyers.

Over time, Customers will also be able to redeem points or miles on either carrier. Further, the airlines are exploring opportunities to recognize JetBlue Mosaic customers and American’s AAdvantage elite members across both airlines. In addition to more details being announced to loyalty program members throughout this year, JetBlue and American will be revealing enhancements to the customer experience and additional offerings through JetBlue Vacations.


I'm sure we will hear more about this on both of their earning calls.
 
jayunited
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:14 pm

Irehdna wrote:
Good to get OW nonstop NYC to India.

Only curious if the 77E will be restricted JFK bound. Surprised the flight is not on the 789. Iirc RR 77E have a notably shorter range than GE 77E (which UA uses for its DEL flight). LY's LAX flight (similar distance to DEL-JFK) pushed the limits of the RR 77E.

Notable is that AI cut JFK to 4x weekly; the other 3 flights to to EWR.



First of all congratulations to AA I didn't see JFK-DEL coming but the U.S. - India - U.S. has been underserved in terms of nonstop options for years. There is no better time than now for U.S. carriers to expand in India an opportunity that really didn't exist pre-pandemic.

I will say I'm surprised they are using a 77E and not either a 77W or a 789. The reason UA took the 77E off EWR-India-EWR routes was because the route was weight restricted on both legs. With a full passenger cabin you are looking at 450-500 bags easily on a 77E of which 60-100 will be heavy bags. With loads like that you will not be able to carry much if any cargo. And if I'm not mistaken the GE engines CO/UA have on their 77Es have the highest thrust rating giving the GE engined 77Es a higher MTOG. There is a lot of cargo going back and forth on US.India routes. AA has more than enough 789s I'm surprised they wouldn't laugh the route with that aircraft which can handle the route without weight restrictions.

United use a 789 on our ORD-DEL route and we can fill the passenger cabin carry all the bags and 20,000 LBS of cargo.
Last edited by jayunited on Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
OlympicATH
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:18 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Philly65 wrote:
So once again the question will be raised of the status of PHL as the primary trans-atlantic gateway. ATH, TLV and now DEL all served from JFK/NYC, an over served market with lower yields. Effectively AA is outsourcing their feed on trans-atlantic.

According to Vasu no. I don't trust that one bit. Vasu blames the retirement of the a330 why can't fly to ATH from PHL or other routes. It tells me two things, first PHL is a reliver hub from now on and two a333 might been better suit for PHLATH then the heavier 772. More importantly is focused on o/d from NYC instead of connecting passengers through PHL. PHL is going to be quiet for the next two years.


I'm confused. Is AA actually dropping PHL-ATH? I thought the entire transatlantic operation out of PHL was on hold and now meant to restart sometime mid-August.
PHL-ATH is actually bookable from mid-August on a 788. I don't think the intention ever was to move the flight to JFK. That was a net addition.
 
USAirALB
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:18 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
BOS-YYZ/STL are both technically resumptions. Easy way for B6 to somewhat market themselves in Canada without actually having to fly to Canada. BOS-CVG is interesting as it hits DL right when they are in the middle of downsizing CVG to a spoke from a focus city.

I wonder if BOS-BNA is next. ORF/GSO also seem like logical adds.


BOS-BNA/GSO would also be resumptions. MQ flew BNA-BOS in the early jet days, and PI flew BOS-GSO at least in the 80s. PI was actually pretty large at BOS in the 80s, with commuter service to ABE, ACY, ALB, and BTV just before the merger. I don't think anyone in the AA family tree has ever done BOS-ORF.

AA did BOS-ORF for a while in the early 2000s with ERJs.

Their American Eagle roster was BOS-ALB/BGR/BNA/BWI/BTV/CMH/EWR/HPN/ISP/ORF/PHL/PWM/RIC/ROC/YHZ/YOW/YQB/YYZ/YUL for a while. ALB/BGR/HPN/ISP/YHZ/YOW/YQB/ROC/PWM/BTV were all Saabs while the rest were ERJs or a mixture of Saabs and ERJs. The Saab flights went away fairly quickly after 9/11 IIRC but the ERJs stayed on for a while longer...until AA shuttered their American Eagle satellite terminal at BOS IIRC.
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maverick4002
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:23 pm

UALFAson wrote:
That's pretty disingenuous to say you have "the fastest growing network from the United States to India," especially when you're counting a non-Indian airline partner in the mix to get you there. Starting from a baseline of 0 flights, any addition is going to be a huge increase. I'm sure UA with its 5 U.S.-India nonstop routes in the works would take issue with this.

On a personal note, interesting to see B6 is adding BNA-LGA service. Does that mean they are replacing AA on the route or will they both operate it (the wording in the press release is unclear)? The previously announced AA codeshare on B6's BNA-BOS flights helps AA fill a big hole for BNA-based frequent flyers like me.


Lol that is what you take issue with? And I think you are wrong tbh. If they have zero and they grow to 3 but United is at 5 and hasnt grown (or is at less that +3), then yes, AA is correct in saying they have the fastest growing network.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:24 pm

jayunited wrote:
The reason UA took the 77E off EWR-India-EWR routes was because the route was weight restricted on both legs. With a full passenger cabin you are looking at 450-500 bags easily on a 77E of which 60-100 will be heavy bags. With loads like that you will not be able to carry much if any cargo. And if I'm not mistaken the GE engines CO/UA have on their 77Es have the highest thrust rating giving the GE engined 77Es a higher MTOG. There is a lot of cargo going back and forth on US.India routes. AA has more than enough 789s I'm surprised they wouldn't laugh the route with that aircraft which can handle the route without weight restrictions.


I've been on CO/UA BOM-EWR on the 77E a couple times. They blocked off ~30 seats on that flight, and it wasn't uncommon to have a BGR/YUL fuel stop (happened to me once). Granted this was in December when flight time approached 16 hrs.

And keep in mind these 77Es had all the max options. (I think UA even ordered a subfleet in 2008-2010 to do the India and HKG routes. Iirc it was routed EWR-HKG-EWR-BOM-EWR.)

I don't recall UA ever subbing a PW 77E on these 3 routes, though it occasionally happened on PEK/TLV.
Last edited by Irehdna on Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
avier
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:27 pm

So AA is adding DEL, and there is no news of their SEA-BLR flight. And if they are anyways adding DEL & BLR, they might as well think of BOM. It's weird they avoiding the very city which DL has always focussed on in India. AA should try ORD-BOM.... and JFK-BOM if they really want to piss DL.
 
jbs2886
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:28 pm

RemoFlyer wrote:
x1234 wrote:
I wish AA would start JFK-BOM/BLR competing with UA/DL. Due to limited non-stop competition UA's EWR-BOM is on a high J 77W instead of the 789. I guess AA didn't want to compete with DL on JFK-BOM.


DL doesnt fly JFK BOM anymore, they quit the route in 2020 due to covid, got rid of the 777lr that was the aircraft for it, and have no aircraft to effectively fly it anymore.


If a 788 and 772ER can fly it, an A350 can.
 
mpdpilot
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:39 pm

jayunited wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
Good to get OW nonstop NYC to India.

Only curious if the 77E will be restricted JFK bound. Surprised the flight is not on the 789. Iirc RR 77E have a notably shorter range than GE 77E (which UA uses for its DEL flight). LY's LAX flight (similar distance to DEL-JFK) pushed the limits of the RR 77E.

Notable is that AI cut JFK to 4x weekly; the other 3 flights to to EWR.



First of all congratulations to AA I didn't see JFK-DEL coming but the U.S. - India - U.S. has been underserved in terms of nonstop options for years. There is no better time than now for U.S. carriers to expand in India an opportunity that really didn't exist pre-pandemic.

I will say I'm surprised they are using a 77E and not either a 77W or a 789. The reason UA took the 77E off EWR-India-EWR routes was because the route was weight restricted on both legs. With a full passenger cabin you are looking at 450-500 bags easily on a 77E of which 60-100 will be heavy bags. With loads like that you will not be able to carry much if any cargo. And if I'm not mistaken the GE engines CO/UA have on their 77Es have the highest thrust rating giving the GE engined 77Es a higher MTOG. There is a lot of cargo going back and forth on US.India routes. AA has more than enough 789s I'm surprised they wouldn't laugh the route with that aircraft which can handle the route without weight restrictions.

United use a 789 on our ORD-DEL route and we can fill the passenger cabin carry all the bags and 20,000 LBS of cargo.


I agree with almost everything, except the RR MTOW, I don't know the specifics of AA's 77Es but the RR can certainly have the same MTOW as the GEs. I believe it is generally the PW 77Es that don't have the full 297.6T MTOW, but even that is just an option choice by the airlines.

The question is can the RR 77Es use that full MTOW out of DEL. Which I believe is less about airport performance and more about initial cruise altitude due to the himilayas. A full 77E would have to take a bigger detour than the 789 or a lighter 77E.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:40 pm

RemoFlyer wrote:
x1234 wrote:
I wish AA would start JFK-BOM/BLR competing with UA/DL. Due to limited non-stop competition UA's EWR-BOM is on a high J 77W instead of the 789. I guess AA didn't want to compete with DL on JFK-BOM.


DL doesnt fly JFK BOM anymore, they quit the route in 2020 due to covid, got rid of the 777lr that was the aircraft for it, and have no aircraft to effectively fly it anymore.


Non ULR A359 does JFK-SIN nonstop. Even ATL-BOM can be done by DL if they want.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:40 pm

On JFK-DEL, it could be possible for AA to upgauge to a B77W with just over 300 seats in 5 classes. The only issue with a B789 would be having to do a repositioning from DFW.

One route I’m surprised isn’t being attempted is JFK-JNB on the B77W. That could fall under the BA JV since Comair operates many flights in the region under the Speedbird code (6000-series flights).
 
a320flyer
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:51 pm

USAirALB wrote:
BOS-CVG is interesting as it hits DL right when they are in the middle of downsizing CVG to a spoke from a focus city.

DL is doing no such thing. It's purely marketing, by any normal definition, it is still a focus city. They've already resumed much of their schedule at CVG and what hasn't come back is business-heavy routes that won't realistically return before 2022.

What will be interesting to see is how DL responds, given CVG-BOS is Delta's second busiest route (5x B717) behind CVG-ATL.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:52 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
One route I’m surprised isn’t being attempted is JFK-JNB on the B77W. That could fall under the BA JV since Comair operates many flights in the region under the Speedbird code (6000-series flights).


77E can't fly JNB-JFK with an economical payload due to JNB altitude.
 
x1234
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:07 pm

AA should add JFK/MIA-JNB/CPT on a 789. Or MIA/ATL-JNB-CPT-MIA/ATL like DL is doing or UA EWR-JNB (UA says the 789 with Boeing's PIP package can do it!)
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:17 pm

USAirALB wrote:
BOS-CVG is interesting as it hits DL right when they are in the middle of downsizing CVG to a spoke from a focus city.


BOS-CVG was DL's most profitable route from BOS on a RASM basis.

It is also a play for P&G + GE, both top 100 in corporate travel spending and have a large presence on both ends.
https://www.businesstravelnews.com/Corp ... l-100/2020

Fits the mold of AUS, RDU, CMH, IND, e.t.c adds to BOS by AA, not good for DL.

a320flyer wrote:
What will be interesting to see is how DL responds, given CVG-BOS is Delta's second busiest route (5x B717) behind CVG-ATL.


It is not the 2nd busiest route from either BOS or CVG (DTW). Although, I see your point.
Last edited by Midwestindy on Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
Philly65
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:17 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Philly65 wrote:
So once again the question will be raised of the status of PHL as the primary trans-atlantic gateway. ATH, TLV and now DEL all served from JFK/NYC, an over served market with lower yields. Effectively AA is outsourcing their feed on trans-atlantic.

[quote="PHLspecial"]According to Vasu no. I don't trust that one bit. ...quote]

Exactly, talking out of both sides of his mouth to bypass DOJ scrutiny of the so called "alliance" but really out-sourcing AA feed.
 
jplatts
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:22 pm

USAirALB wrote:
BOS-CVG is interesting as it hits DL right when they are in the middle of downsizing CVG to a spoke from a focus city.


DL still has nonstop service out of CVG to some non-DL hub destinations such as DEN, FLL, LAS, EWR, MCO, TPA, and DCA, but most of the non-DL hub destinations that DL is still serving nonstop from CVG are leisure destinations.

Even though EWR isn't a DL hub, the situation is different on CVG-EWR compared to the other DL nonstop routes out of CVG to non-DL hub destinations that DL is currently operating because of the FF base and corporate contracts that DL has in the NYC market due to the DL hubs at LGA and JFK.

DL also has already dropped CVG-CLT nonstop service, whereas AA still serves CLT nonstop from CVG due to the AA CLT hub.

The recent adds made by AA, AS, and SY out of CVG have will also further weaken the monopoly that DL previously had in the CVG market, even though DL previously had nonstop competition from NW and F9 on the CVG-MSP route.
 
Ishrion
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:32 pm

avier wrote:
So AA is adding DEL, and there is no news of their SEA-BLR flight. And if they are anyways adding DEL & BLR, they might as well think of BOM. It's weird they avoiding the very city which DL has always focussed on in India. AA should try ORD-BOM.... and JFK-BOM if they really want to piss DL.


SEA-BLR was mentioned in the press release today, so they're not giving up on it yet.

"Beginning Oct. 31, American will launch nonstop service from New York (JFK) to New Delhi (DEL) on a Boeing 777-200 to meet the strong local demand. With its Qatar Airways partnership and previously announced Seattle (SEA) to Bengaluru, India (BLR), route, American will offer customers more ways to fly between the United States and India than any other airline partnership."

aemoreira1981 wrote:
One route I’m surprised isn’t being attempted is JFK-JNB on the B77W. That could fall under the BA JV since Comair operates many flights in the region under the Speedbird code (6000-series flights).


AA should eventually launch a JFK to Africa route. When AA/B6 announced the partnership in July, AA said "and, once the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic has ended, the new partnership is certain to facilitate American adding new long-haul markets in Europe, Africa, India and South America."

Europe, India, and South America have all received new routes. Africa's the last of the four.
 
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airzim
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:57 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
On JFK-DEL, it could be possible for AA to upgauge to a B77W with just over 300 seats in 5 classes. The only issue with a B789 would be having to do a repositioning from DFW.

One route I’m surprised isn’t being attempted is JFK-JNB on the B77W. That could fall under the BA JV since Comair operates many flights in the region under the Speedbird code (6000-series flights).


But practically, a 3x / week service and beyond JFK traffic funneling to B6, AA is chasing VFR traffic. A business person (assuming it comes back by launch) would never seriously consider this flights option.

I'm sure AA would rather rip out J seats and stuff in more Y rather than 'waste' a 77W on this route.

JNB is also likely out of the equation given the virus' spread in ZA at the moment. I can't imagine much upfront business traffic on ZA routes for a while.
 
hohd
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:03 pm

avier wrote:
So AA is adding DEL, and there is no news of their SEA-BLR flight. And if they are anyways adding DEL & BLR, they might as well think of BOM. It's weird they avoiding the very city which DL has always focussed on in India. AA should try ORD-BOM.... and JFK-BOM if they really want to piss DL.


DL has abandoned JFK-BOM, so AA should really try JFK-BOM as they have no direct competition (they still have indirect competition on flights to EWR). ORD was tried from DEL and AA quit long time ago, ORD-BOM may not have enough traffic to support. Anyway, with the Covid situation in India worsening, these flights may not start as scheduled.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: AA Announces New Routes Including JFK-DEL

Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:04 pm

Vctony wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:

it is actually a low risk time to try new things especially with widebodies that have a huge shortage of destinations to fly to right now.
Now assuming International as a whole returns in summer 2022 or 23 they will put them on the more profitable routes, but in the meantime they may get some incremental revenue and introduce more folks to AA and even possibly create a new viable market (for AA) if they get lucky.


That is very accurate. The problem here is that the US3 all need intercontinental flights to capture revenue and business traffic. The problem is that 80% of the world is essentially off limits, and it sounds like the State Department and the Biden Administration more broadly plan to maintain such advisories as COVID rates are rising around the world, notably in Asia, India, Brazil (of course), Chile, Argentina, and in Europe, the situation is far from under control. At the moment, the airlines have little choice but to add routes, even at low frequencies, to try and capture revenue, but it will be very challenging absent meaningful business travel, which really does not look promising for a return in 2021.

JFK-DEL on AA is interesting. They'll be going up against UA at EWR, which has been established in the market for years (CO launched EWR-DEL/BOM long before the merger), and AA will face pricing headwinds from EK, QR, and maybe even Etihad. Then there is AI. I don't see traffic to India being all that meaningful this year, but if the 772 they put on this route can carry cargo profitably, it makes sense. What's amazing is how far and wide AA (with B6) are going after DL at JFK and the NE airports covered by the partnership where there is overlap.


DL may have cut too much domestic capacity during COVID with the retirement of the MD-88s/MD-90s/717s/777s. I know AA has cut capacity as well but AA has more new aircraft in the pipeline and has some flexibility with the 738s that DL doesn't.


DL's MD88/MD90 retirements pre-dated the pandemic and the 717s are still flying. Keeping the 777s (18 frames) would not have done much for DL domestic wise, other than maintain more capacity. They have plenty of widebodies with nowhere to fly in Europe, Asia, and Latin America working the domestic network.

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