Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
od-bwh
Topic Author
Posts: 339
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:25 pm

Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:18 pm

The Q4 management discussions and analysis shows AC reducing its fleet of 777-300ER by one, down to 18 by Dec 31, 2021 compared to 19 in 2020. Is this a retirement or is it being returned to a lessor? I read AC is considering converting 763's into freighters, but there's no mention of a 77W.
 
346fetish
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:00 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:21 pm

od-bwh wrote:
The Q4 management discussions and analysis shows AC reducing its fleet of 777-300ER by one, down to 18 by Dec 31, 2021 compared to 19 in 2020. Is this a retirement or is it being returned to a lessor? I read AC is considering converting 763's into freighters, but there's no mention of a 77W.


AC is already converting 763s to freighters. As for the 77W, I would assume it's a return to lessor.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7509
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:30 pm

Air Canada has what has to be the world densest 77W with 450 seats and only 6 bathrooms in economy. They probably don't need such a huge airplane right now. AC has a large fleet of 787-9 which can serve all their routes with enough capacity. AC will be facing a 777 fleet decision in the next few years as they replaced the A340 fleet about 15 years ago.
 
777luver
Posts: 613
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:53 pm

od-bwh wrote:
The Q4 management discussions and analysis shows AC reducing its fleet of 777-300ER by one, down to 18 by Dec 31, 2021 compared to 19 in 2020. Is this a retirement or is it being returned to a lessor? I read AC is considering converting 763's into freighters, but there's no mention of a 77W.


Return to lessor
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:25 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Air Canada has what has to be the world densest 77W with 450 seats and only 6 bathrooms in economy.


Close. Azur Air seats up to 531, Nordwind has 486 seats, Rossiya 457 and Royal Flight 492. Saudia is close with some aircraft in a 443 seat configuration.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4925
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:47 pm

Flew an AC 77W to Europe via YYZ before the pandemic. Unfortunately, I sat in Economy Class. What a horrible layout, densely packed, not enough lavatories to service what was a packed cabin, all of which combined took away from what was otherwise a pleasant experience with an on time departure, pleasant crew, smooth flight, early arrival, and decent food.
 
User avatar
leleko747
Posts: 522
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:16 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:54 pm

VSMUT wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Air Canada has what has to be the world densest 77W with 450 seats and only 6 bathrooms in economy.


Close. Azur Air seats up to 531, Nordwind has 486 seats, Rossiya 457 and Royal Flight 492. Saudia is close with some aircraft in a 443 seat configuration.


I believe Air France also have a high-density layout on part of their B777-300ER fleet, with 400+ seats aswell.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:02 pm

leleko747 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Air Canada has what has to be the world densest 77W with 450 seats and only 6 bathrooms in economy.


Close. Azur Air seats up to 531, Nordwind has 486 seats, Rossiya 457 and Royal Flight 492. Saudia is close with some aircraft in a 443 seat configuration.


I believe Air France also have a high-density layout on part of their B777-300ER fleet, with 400+ seats aswell.


That's right, a 468 and a 472 seat layout.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3963
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:10 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Air Canada has what has to be the world densest 77W with 450 seats and only 6 bathrooms in economy. They probably don't need such a huge airplane right now. AC has a large fleet of 787-9 which can serve all their routes with enough capacity. AC will be facing a 777 fleet decision in the next few years as they replaced the A340 fleet about 15 years ago.


Air France has 468-seaters, albeit generally used long haul domestic. Nordwind has Y486 frames.

As for Air Canada, I wonder if the Boeing 787-10 or more A330-300s are needed, or even the A330neo. The B789 can fly the truly long haul while the A330 is the YUL workhorse.
 
wr911
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:01 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:31 pm

Oh I remember flying economy YVR to LHR on the 777 with AC, having a competition with my wife and daughter who would pay the lowest. I won, but in hindsight seating almost in the last row in economy, waiting for the food, having people standing beside my seat, waiting for the bathroom, I think I lost! Anyway, never again, premium economy minimum, I am almost 6'2".
 
777luver
Posts: 613
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:51 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Air Canada has what has to be the world densest 77W with 450 seats and only 6 bathrooms in economy. They probably don't need such a huge airplane right now. AC has a large fleet of 787-9 which can serve all their routes with enough capacity. AC will be facing a 777 fleet decision in the next few years as they replaced the A340 fleet about 15 years ago.


Air France has 468-seaters, albeit generally used long haul domestic. Nordwind has Y486 frames.

As for Air Canada, I wonder if the Boeing 787-10 or more A330-300s are needed, or even the A330neo. The B789 can fly the truly long haul while the A330 is the YUL workhorse.


They acquired 8 more A330s for a total of 16, they'll use those for Europe and the 787s for longer flights. I doubt we'll see a widebody order this decade. They don't need the planes now
 
raylee67
Posts: 994
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:02 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Air Canada has what has to be the world densest 77W with 450 seats and only 6 bathrooms in economy. They probably don't need such a huge airplane right now. AC has a large fleet of 787-9 which can serve all their routes with enough capacity. AC will be facing a 777 fleet decision in the next few years as they replaced the A340 fleet about 15 years ago.


Air France has 468-seaters, albeit generally used long haul domestic. Nordwind has Y486 frames.

As for Air Canada, I wonder if the Boeing 787-10 or more A330-300s are needed, or even the A330neo. The B789 can fly the truly long haul while the A330 is the YUL workhorse.


Assuming the world would return to normal eventually, Air Canada does need a plane with the 400+ seat capacity. Its Asia routes and even some European flights are full a lot of time even with that capacity with the 77W. YVR-YYZ is a very busy route as well. I have never been on a YVR-YYZ flight that is not full (pre-2020), whether that's business class, premium economy or economy. The 787-10 would be too small for these flights. It's really down to A350-1000 and 777-9, but I think AC would not need to worry about this until 2025 the earliest.
 
od-bwh
Topic Author
Posts: 339
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:25 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:17 pm

777luver wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Air Canada has what has to be the world densest 77W with 450 seats and only 6 bathrooms in economy. They probably don't need such a huge airplane right now. AC has a large fleet of 787-9 which can serve all their routes with enough capacity. AC will be facing a 777 fleet decision in the next few years as they replaced the A340 fleet about 15 years ago.


Air France has 468-seaters, albeit generally used long haul domestic. Nordwind has Y486 frames.

As for Air Canada, I wonder if the Boeing 787-10 or more A330-300s are needed, or even the A330neo. The B789 can fly the truly long haul while the A330 is the YUL workhorse.


They acquired 8 more A330s for a total of 16, they'll use those for Europe and the 787s for longer flights. I doubt we'll see a widebody order this decade. They don't need the planes now


I've flown their 77W on domestic and transatlantic routes before COVID. In all cases the flights were packed.
 
opticalilyushin
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:49 pm

Do their 77Ws still have IFE controls built into the top of the armrests? This was my biggest gripe when flying on one from YVR-LHR. The passenger in the seat next to me kept resting his arm on the rest (fair enough), which unfortunately made my IFE pause, restart etc.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10217
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:04 pm

raylee67 wrote:
Assuming the world would return to normal eventually, Air Canada does need a plane with the 400+ seat capacity. Its Asia routes and even some European flights are full a lot of time even with that capacity with the 77W. YVR-YYZ is a very busy route as well. I have never been on a YVR-YYZ flight that is not full (pre-2020), whether that's business class, premium economy or economy. The 787-10 would be too small for these flights. It's really down to A350-1000 and 777-9, but I think AC would not need to worry about this until 2025 the earliest.


Smaller planes and higher avg fares is a valid choice.
 
777luver
Posts: 613
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:09 pm

opticalilyushin wrote:
Do their 77Ws still have IFE controls built into the top of the armrests? This was my biggest gripe when flying on one from YVR-LHR. The passenger in the seat next to me kept resting his arm on the rest (fair enough), which unfortunately made my IFE pause, restart etc.


It's built into the IFE, not the seat
 
dr1980
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:55 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:41 pm

Premium economy on the 777W is quite nice, did it on a YYZ-YVR leg so it wasn’t too expensive. The seat looked like a narrow body first class seat and I was forward of the wing so I got to watch those big GE90’s do their thing and hear their distinctive growl.
 
777luver
Posts: 613
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:51 pm

dr1980 wrote:
Premium economy on the 777W is quite nice, did it on a YYZ-YVR leg so it wasn’t too expensive. The seat looked like a narrow body first class seat and I was forward of the wing so I got to watch those big GE90’s do their thing and hear their distinctive growl.


Best engine sound on earth
 
skipness1E
Posts: 5041
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:21 pm

Do we know which aircraft is leaving?
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8435
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:32 pm

they just converted another 4 to upper deck cargo configuration (sans Y class seats), it surprises me they aren't going to do so for the whole fleet right now.
 
od-bwh
Topic Author
Posts: 339
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:25 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:20 am

skipness1E wrote:
Do we know which aircraft is leaving?


Not yet. My guess would be one of the leased
 
codyul
Posts: 171
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:32 am

9 of the 16 77Ws are leased. We'll see if they all get returned at the end of term.
Not to mention 2 of the 6 772s (leased).

And Rousseau did tell us that it would be one of the leased ones that was on the MDA scheduled to be removed from the fleet.
 
9252fly
Posts: 1222
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:34 am

codyul wrote:
9 of the 16 77Ws are leased. We'll see if they all get returned at the end of term.
Not to mention 2 of the 6 772s (leased).

And Rousseau did tell us that it would be one of the leased ones that was on the MDA scheduled to be removed from the fleet.


I was under the impression that there were 19 77Ws?
 
opticalilyushin
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:18 am

777luver wrote:
opticalilyushin wrote:
Do their 77Ws still have IFE controls built into the top of the armrests? This was my biggest gripe when flying on one from YVR-LHR. The passenger in the seat next to me kept resting his arm on the rest (fair enough), which unfortunately made my IFE pause, restart etc.


It's built into the IFE, not the seat


Mine definitely wasn't. I'll dig out the registration later. It seemed like a very poor design feature.
 
codyul
Posts: 171
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:26 am

9252fly wrote:
codyul wrote:
9 of the 16 77Ws are leased. We'll see if they all get returned at the end of term.
Not to mention 2 of the 6 772s (leased).

And Rousseau did tell us that it would be one of the leased ones that was on the MDA scheduled to be removed from the fleet.


I was under the impression that there were 19 77Ws?

You're right. Typo. Apologies
 
9252fly
Posts: 1222
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:57 am

codyul wrote:
9252fly wrote:
codyul wrote:
9 of the 16 77Ws are leased. We'll see if they all get returned at the end of term.
Not to mention 2 of the 6 772s (leased).

And Rousseau did tell us that it would be one of the leased ones that was on the MDA scheduled to be removed from the fleet.


I was under the impression that there were 19 77Ws?

You're right. Typo. Apologies

Would that mean of the 77Ws, 9 are leased and 10 are owned?
 
raylee67
Posts: 994
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:01 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
Assuming the world would return to normal eventually, Air Canada does need a plane with the 400+ seat capacity. Its Asia routes and even some European flights are full a lot of time even with that capacity with the 77W. YVR-YYZ is a very busy route as well. I have never been on a YVR-YYZ flight that is not full (pre-2020), whether that's business class, premium economy or economy. The 787-10 would be too small for these flights. It's really down to A350-1000 and 777-9, but I think AC would not need to worry about this until 2025 the earliest.


Smaller planes and higher avg fares is a valid choice.


Canadian domestic fare is quite high already compare to US domestic and EU domestic. You can look at the fare differential between YVR-YYZ and JFK-SFO/LAX, etc. And YVR-YYZ was run once an hour (pre-2019) by AC with 77W, 77L, 333, 767, 787, etc., so the demand is there. For international flights, the competition is there to keep the fare reasonable, but AC itself raising fare just means it's yielding demand to competitors. Not sure that's a good option.
 
opticalilyushin
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:18 am

opticalilyushin wrote:
777luver wrote:
opticalilyushin wrote:
Do their 77Ws still have IFE controls built into the top of the armrests? This was my biggest gripe when flying on one from YVR-LHR. The passenger in the seat next to me kept resting his arm on the rest (fair enough), which unfortunately made my IFE pause, restart etc.


It's built into the IFE, not the seat


Mine definitely wasn't. I'll dig out the registration later. It seemed like a very poor design feature.


C-FIVW. The aircraft had controls in the IFE/back of the seat but there was also a set of buttons on top of the arm-rest, and they were linked to my screen
 
codyul
Posts: 171
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:20 am

9252fly wrote:
codyul wrote:
9252fly wrote:

I was under the impression that there were 19 77Ws?

You're right. Typo. Apologies

Would that mean of the 77Ws, 9 are leased and 10 are owned?

Yes, exactly.
 
346fetish
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:00 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:39 pm

777luver wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Air Canada has what has to be the world densest 77W with 450 seats and only 6 bathrooms in economy. They probably don't need such a huge airplane right now. AC has a large fleet of 787-9 which can serve all their routes with enough capacity. AC will be facing a 777 fleet decision in the next few years as they replaced the A340 fleet about 15 years ago.


Air France has 468-seaters, albeit generally used long haul domestic. Nordwind has Y486 frames.

As for Air Canada, I wonder if the Boeing 787-10 or more A330-300s are needed, or even the A330neo. The B789 can fly the truly long haul while the A330 is the YUL workhorse.


They acquired 8 more A330s for a total of 16, they'll use those for Europe and the 787s for longer flights. I doubt we'll see a widebody order this decade. They don't need the planes now


Yup and the problem with the 787-10 for AC is the aircraft's range. I don't think it can do YYZ-Asia with a full load in winter. As for the A330, I wouldn't be surprised to see them get their hands on more fins. Low ownership cost, great performance... The A330 is a great TATL machine.
 
od-bwh
Topic Author
Posts: 339
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:25 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:24 pm

346fetish wrote:
777luver wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:

Air France has 468-seaters, albeit generally used long haul domestic. Nordwind has Y486 frames.

As for Air Canada, I wonder if the Boeing 787-10 or more A330-300s are needed, or even the A330neo. The B789 can fly the truly long haul while the A330 is the YUL workhorse.


They acquired 8 more A330s for a total of 16, they'll use those for Europe and the 787s for longer flights. I doubt we'll see a widebody order this decade. They don't need the planes now


Yup and the problem with the 787-10 for AC is the aircraft's range. I don't think it can do YYZ-Asia with a full load in winter. As for the A330, I wouldn't be surprised to see them get their hands on more fins. Low ownership cost, great performance... The A330 is a great TATL machine.


I think they got enough for the near future for now. I'd be surprised to see any aircraft acquisitions by either AC or WS in the very near future
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3963
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:23 pm

In terms of the B77W, Air Canada or a foreign carrier was usually the only option long haul. However, WestJet is now entering the game in earnest, and I would not be surprised to see them enter the Asia game, possibly with Korean Air.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 12431
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:35 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
In terms of the B77W, Air Canada or a foreign carrier was usually the only option long haul. However, WestJet is now entering the game in earnest, and I would not be surprised to see them enter the Asia game, possibly with Korean Air.

Westjet would enter the Asia game with the 789. They are not going to be introducing 77Ws into their fleet.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7509
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:33 pm

VSMUT wrote:
leleko747 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

Close. Azur Air seats up to 531, Nordwind has 486 seats, Rossiya 457 and Royal Flight 492. Saudia is close with some aircraft in a 443 seat configuration.


I believe Air France also have a high-density layout on part of their B777-300ER fleet, with 400+ seats aswell.


That's right, a 468 and a 472 seat layout.


The AF 77W have only 24 j seats so they would naturally have more economy seats. These planes are used to the French Caribbean and Indian Ocean destinations.
 
krisyyz
Posts: 1322
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:04 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:36 am

Any word on the future of the B77L fleet? It’s the only fleet that is completely parked and most of the 77L routes can be flown by the B789s, albeit with far less payload.

KrisYYZ
 
777luver
Posts: 613
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:05 am

krisyyz wrote:
Any word on the future of the B77L fleet? It’s the only fleet that is completely parked and most of the 77L routes can be flown by the B789s, albeit with far less payload.

KrisYYZ


No word yet. I imagine they will keep them though, complete guess
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:29 am

jfk777 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
leleko747 wrote:

I believe Air France also have a high-density layout on part of their B777-300ER fleet, with 400+ seats aswell.


That's right, a 468 and a 472 seat layout.


The AF 77W have only 24 j seats so they would naturally have more economy seats. These planes are used to the French Caribbean and Indian Ocean destinations.


They get subbed in on other routes if necessary. I was on one to Seoul once.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3963
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:52 am

Polot wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
In terms of the B77W, Air Canada or a foreign carrier was usually the only option long haul. However, WestJet is now entering the game in earnest, and I would not be surprised to see them enter the Asia game, possibly with Korean Air.

Westjet would enter the Asia game with the 789. They are not going to be introducing 77Ws into their fleet.


That is true. But it would end the virtual monopoly Air Canada has.

As for the B77L, there is only a 2 seat difference (although 10 in J) between that and the B789.
 
777luver
Posts: 613
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:56 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Polot wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
In terms of the B77W, Air Canada or a foreign carrier was usually the only option long haul. However, WestJet is now entering the game in earnest, and I would not be surprised to see them enter the Asia game, possibly with Korean Air.

Westjet would enter the Asia game with the 789. They are not going to be introducing 77Ws into their fleet.


That is true. But it would end the virtual monopoly Air Canada has.

As for the B77L, there is only a 2 seat difference (although 10 in J) between that and the B789.


Does AC have a monopoly though? They seem to have quite a few competitors on the Asia routes plus everywhere else.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3963
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:28 am

777luver wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Polot wrote:
Westjet would enter the Asia game with the 789. They are not going to be introducing 77Ws into their fleet.


That is true. But it would end the virtual monopoly Air Canada has.

As for the B77L, there is only a 2 seat difference (although 10 in J) between that and the B789.


Does AC have a monopoly though? They seem to have quite a few competitors on the Asia routes plus everywhere else.


On some routes, I would say yes...examples would include Australia to Canada and Montreal to Asia, internationally, and domestically in areas like Quebec and Atlantic Canada. Elsewhere TPAC, Air Canada basically has a duopoly, except out of YVR to Asia (but not Australia, where Air Canada has a monopoly). The issue of a virtual monopoly out of YUL (TATL) is why the deal with Air Transat fell apart.

Canadian travel across the lower part of Canada is basically a duopoly. AC and WS (English-speaking Canada YOW and westward) and AC and TS (Francophone Canada).
 
User avatar
adambrau
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:44 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:07 pm

jfk777 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
leleko747 wrote:

I believe Air France also have a high-density layout on part of their B777-300ER fleet, with 400+ seats aswell.


That's right, a 468 and a 472 seat layout.


The AF 77W have only 24 j seats so they would naturally have more economy seats. These planes are used to the French Caribbean and Indian Ocean destinations.


Just to be fair, the AF 77W we get at JFK has 4 La Premiere, 58 J Class, 28 Premium Economy and 206 Y Class seats. For a total of 296 seats. I understand we have several 77W layouts but it seems the minimum number of seats on the AC 77W is 400. oof!
 
EdmFlyBoi
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:58 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:47 pm

This thread has gone a fair bit off topic I would say. It is not yet clear which FIN is leaving. AC has 2 configurations - 12 high J 77W's with 40J and 400 total seats and a 7 low J 77W's with 28J and 450 total seats. The only FIN's converted to cargo ops have the low J birds as the J seats are not removed as part of the conversion to cargo ops. The 77L's are parked because the 77W's haul more cargo. The 77L's served specific routes - YYZ-HKG and YVR-SYD - and will likely go back on these routes when travel demand returns (if it does). There are now 16 A330's in the fleet with 5 having been reconfigured to the new 32J layout. Of the 16, 8 are former SQ birds, with 4 now in all cargo configuration. The oldest 3 (931-933) are parked and 4 of the original 8 (935-938) are in Rockford being refurbished. AC has enough widebodies for the foreseeable future. The expectation is that the next order may be for A321LR/XLR.
 
od-bwh
Topic Author
Posts: 339
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:25 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:53 pm

EdmFlyBoi wrote:
This thread has gone a fair bit off topic I would say. It is not yet clear which FIN is leaving. AC has 2 configurations - 12 high J 77W's with 40J and 400 total seats and a 7 low J 77W's with 28J and 450 total seats. The only FIN's converted to cargo ops have the low J birds as the J seats are not removed as part of the conversion to cargo ops. The 77L's are parked because the 77W's haul more cargo. The 77L's served specific routes - YYZ-HKG and YVR-SYD - and will likely go back on these routes when travel demand returns (if it does). There are now 16 A330's in the fleet with 5 having been reconfigured to the new 32J layout. Of the 16, 8 are former SQ birds, with 4 now in all cargo configuration. The oldest 3 (931-933) are parked and 4 of the original 8 (935-938) are in Rockford being refurbished. AC has enough widebodies for the foreseeable future. The expectation is that the next order may be for A321LR/XLR.


That's a great summary. On the A321LR/XLR, I think that's going to be a tough sell for so many reasons, especially now that AC isn't taking over TS (which has a good bunch of LR's now). With the phase-out of the A320 family, I would guess AC would prefer to wait and see what Boeing will have to offer to maintain fleet commonality.
 
chrisa330
Posts: 607
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 10:24 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:03 pm

od-bwh wrote:
That's a great summary. On the A321LR/XLR, I think that's going to be a tough sell for so many reasons, especially now that AC isn't taking over TS (which has a good bunch of LR's now). With the phase-out of the A320 family, I would guess AC would prefer to wait and see what Boeing will have to offer to maintain fleet commonality.


Fleet commonality is moot given mainline has no plans to phase out the A321s at this point, and rouge has no plans to retire any of the Airbus fleet.
 
beechnut
Posts: 967
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:10 pm

There were rumours that AC was gearing up for an A321N/LR/XLR order just before the pandemic hit. I don't think there's much appetite to take on more debt or lease obligations at the moment, but I suspect the idea isn't dead. AC had ordered the MAX9 as an A321 replacement but cancelled that order. Turns out the best replacement for a 321 is a 321, go figure.

Indeed the A32x family is far from dead at AC. Neither the mainline or Rouge 321s or Rouge 320s are going anywhere soon, and the Rouge 321s are some of the last of the new build CEOs, being if my memory is good, 2015 builds.

Beech
 
od-bwh
Topic Author
Posts: 339
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:25 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Mon May 03, 2021 9:58 pm

Let's do some guessing. These 3 are leased and are still in the old c/s.
C-FIUW (13 yrs)
C-FIVS (11 yrs)
C-FRAM (12 yrs)

My bet would be on C-FIUW leaving
 
EChid
Posts: 573
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue May 04, 2021 2:05 pm

opticalilyushin wrote:
opticalilyushin wrote:
777luver wrote:

It's built into the IFE, not the seat


Mine definitely wasn't. I'll dig out the registration later. It seemed like a very poor design feature.


C-FIVW. The aircraft had controls in the IFE/back of the seat but there was also a set of buttons on top of the arm-rest, and they were linked to my screen

I remember this - the remote also has FA calling built in so the result is that on red-eyes you end up with FA calls going off all night long and bothering everybody. It also had the light button too, I think, resulting in people turning on their light in sleep which was frustrating. I think it was identified early as a design flaw and all additional interiors excluded them. I haven't seen it on most of the 77Ws I've been on.
 
codyul
Posts: 171
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Tue May 04, 2021 3:56 pm

EChid wrote:
opticalilyushin wrote:
opticalilyushin wrote:

Mine definitely wasn't. I'll dig out the registration later. It seemed like a very poor design feature.


C-FIVW. The aircraft had controls in the IFE/back of the seat but there was also a set of buttons on top of the arm-rest, and they were linked to my screen

I remember this - the remote also has FA calling built in so the result is that on red-eyes you end up with FA calls going off all night long and bothering everybody. It also had the light button too, I think, resulting in people turning on their light in sleep which was frustrating. I think it was identified early as a design flaw and all additional interiors excluded them. I haven't seen it on most of the 77Ws I've been on.

If my memory serves me correctly, AT LEAST the FA call button was disabled, after a lot of FA reports to management. It might even be all the armrest controls. But that has to be a couple years back now.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3907
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Wed May 05, 2021 8:23 am

jfk777 wrote:
Air Canada has what has to be the world densest 77W with 450 seats and only 6 bathrooms in economy. They probably don't need such a huge airplane right now. AC has a large fleet of 787-9 which can serve all their routes with enough capacity. AC will be facing a 777 fleet decision in the next few years as they replaced the A340 fleet about 15 years ago.


JAL has 500 seats 2 class on 777-300 domestic. So no Air Canada is not the most cramped.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 976
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Air Canada phasing out a 777-300ER

Wed May 05, 2021 2:23 pm

rbavfan wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Air Canada has what has to be the world densest 77W with 450 seats and only 6 bathrooms in economy. They probably don't need such a huge airplane right now. AC has a large fleet of 787-9 which can serve all their routes with enough capacity. AC will be facing a 777 fleet decision in the next few years as they replaced the A340 fleet about 15 years ago.


JAL has 500 seats 2 class on 777-300 domestic. So no Air Canada is not the most cramped.


I think Air Canada has a higher than typical seating density in their long haul 777s even though they aren’t the densest. They have a lot of seats so the 787s may be more versatile in the COVID world

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos