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AntonioMartin
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Copa in inner Argentina

Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:38 pm

I have a question about Copa's inner Argentina operations:

Copa has flights to Cordoba, Mendoza. Rosario and Salta...Rosario I can understand but Mendoza and Salta?

My question is how is Copa doing with these four cities? And is there enough business between these cities and Panama and /or Panamanians living there or ,as vice-versa, Argentines from those areas living in Panama?????

Copa doesn't do that, say, in Chile.....(though they do fly to many secondary cities in other South American countries, I'll admit that)

It just seems interesting to me....
 
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dabpit
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Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:11 pm

It isn’t just about Panama to Argentina and vis-à-vis. It really is about the connecting passengers especially given that Panama is Copa’s “Hub of the Americas” which they use predominantly for connections not O&D.
Carpe Diem
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:30 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
Copa doesn't do that, say, in Chile.....(though they do fly to many secondary cities in other South American countries, I'll admit that)


Chile's population is very centralized in and around Santiago. Santiago is the only metro area of 1+ million in Chile; compare to Argentina where Cordoba, Rosario, and Mendoza all clear that (admittedly arbitrary) line. The second largest metro area in Chile - Valparaiso/Vina - is served by SCL as well, and the third largest - Concepcion - is far enough south that it's starting to get in an operationally dicey range band for CM.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
incitatus
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Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:51 am

Mendoza is Argentina's wine country. It is one of the most prosperous cities in Argentina.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
Kilgen
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Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:33 pm

In previous interviews before they stated Mendoza, Copa's CEO Pedro Heilbron, stated that the number of passengers from Mendoza going to SCL to take flights to the rest of the Americas was quite high, thus there was sufficient travelers.

About Salta, CM was also considering Tucuman at the same time. As CM was expanding to secondary cities in the Americas.

The previous government of Argentina, was open to allowing CM to expand to new destinations and even allowed the expansion of the number of weekly fx in the Argentina-Panama Bilateral Air treaty.
 
Kilgen
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Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:37 pm

Before the pandemic, CM was looking to expand to other destinations in Argentina. They started Salta, but Tucuman and Igazu was in their radar as well.

In Spanish: https://www.sirchandler.com.ar/2018/06/ ... -e-iguazu/
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:37 pm

Kilgen wrote:
Before the pandemic, CM was looking to expand to other destinations in Argentina. They started Salta, but Tucuman and Igazu was in their radar as well.

In Spanish: https://www.sirchandler.com.ar/2018/06/ ... -e-iguazu/

So they were gonna fly from Tocumen to Tucuman??? hmnnn...
 
dcajet
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Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:48 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
Kilgen wrote:
Before the pandemic, CM was looking to expand to other destinations in Argentina. They started Salta, but Tucuman and Igazu was in their radar as well.

In Spanish: https://www.sirchandler.com.ar/2018/06/ ... -e-iguazu/

So they were gonna fly from Tocumen to Tucuman??? hmnnn...


COPA's business model is not carrying people from say, Salta or Rosario to Panama, but rather use the Panama hub to offer quick connections to the Caribbean, Central America, Northern South America, Mexico and the US. On any given CM flight from Argentina you may have more fingers in your hands that passengers that terminate their trip at Panama. The same applies to secondary cities in Brazil other than Rio and Sao Paulo and to where CM operates (POA, CNF, etc.)

COPA has tapped into a market not very well served by the local airlines, with the right-sized equipment (73G/738/MAX 9), providing convenience and good service at the right price point. If you were to, in the case of Argentina , take AR from SLA to MIA, it'd most likely entail a 2-hr flight south to AEP, a transfer between airports (AEP-->EZE) and then a 9-hr flight north to MIA. Madness. You see now why COPA has been so successful flying to these cities. It is often said in Argentina that AR is an airline from Buenos Aires for the benefit of the Buenos Aires traveler. COPA to PTY, LATAM to GRU, LIM & SCL and Air Europa are examples of airlines that have found success serving interior Argentina.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
btbx11
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Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:56 am

incitatus wrote:
Mendoza is Argentina's wine country. It is one of the most prosperous cities in Argentina.
I can attest to this. Copa carries quite a bit of traffic SFO-PTY-MDZ. I think many people here don't realize the amount of traffic the wine industry generates.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:12 am

btbx11 wrote:
incitatus wrote:
Mendoza is Argentina's wine country. It is one of the most prosperous cities in Argentina.
I can attest to this. Copa carries quite a bit of traffic SFO-PTY-MDZ. I think many people here don't realize the amount of traffic the wine industry generates.

Panama basically being the middle of America has benefited Copa a lot...
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:41 am

Kilgen wrote:
Before the pandemic, CM was looking to expand to other destinations in Argentina. They started Salta, but Tucuman and Igazu was in their radar as well.

In Spanish: https://www.sirchandler.com.ar/2018/06/ ... -e-iguazu/
TUC itself is a big market, even it has/had (?) TUC-LIM; IGR has more to do with the cites next to Iguazú on the Paraguayan and Brazilian side of the border.
If it's for cargo.. and high-yield traffic, AGT in Paraguay could be more attractive, specially if CM can't get additional frequencies to Argentina.
Right now, Argentinians living close to ASU enjoy the convenience of flying CM as those in MDZ, SLA, COR and ROS.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:47 am

I think a very high percentage of copas routes couldnt be supported by the O&D alone. They do lots of connections. Very similar to icelandair. They do a very high percentage of connections
 
SFOThinker
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Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:06 pm

I was very impressed with Copa’s operations at Panama City a couple of years ago when I connected there. They follow a strategy much like Emirates but using 737s not widebodies. Because so many countries in Latin America have high tariffs, the tax free retailers were huge and everywhere— including the gate areas.
My only complaint was that there weren’t enough dining options and they were expensive.
 
dcajet
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Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Sat May 01, 2021 12:19 am

SFOThinker wrote:
I was very impressed with Copa’s operations at Panama City a couple of years ago when I connected there. They follow a strategy much like Emirates but using 737s not widebodies. Because so many countries in Latin America have high tariffs, the tax free retailers were huge and everywhere— including the gate areas.
My only complaint was that there weren’t enough dining options and they were expensive.


COPA just opened a new terminal at PTY with plenty of food & retail options.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
dcajet
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Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Sat May 01, 2021 12:25 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I think a very high percentage of copas routes couldnt be supported by the O&D alone. They do lots of connections. Very similar to icelandair. They do a very high percentage of connections


Connections are COPA's business. PTY O&D alone has to be 10-15% of their business, at most.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Sat May 01, 2021 1:30 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
Copa doesn't do that, say, in Chile

From what I've read in other sources: CM doesn't fly to secondary cities in Chile, if LATAM doesn't fly to Panama City.
The business model of CM in Argentina is like CM in Brazil, offering multiplle cities and weekly frequencies, in those large countries.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
santi319
Posts: 1119
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Sat May 01, 2021 1:33 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
Copa doesn't do that, say, in Chile

From what I've read in other sources: CM doesn't fly to secondary cities in Chile, if LATAM doesn't fly to Panama City.
The business model of CM in Argentina is like CM in Brazil, offering multiplle cities and weekly frequencies, in those large countries.

Regards.

Really surprised they don’t fly to ANF (Antofagasta Chile), city is medium size, fairly isolated and very wealthy. Screams Copa to me!
 
AntonioMartin
Topic Author
Posts: 835
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Sat May 01, 2021 9:59 pm

santi319 wrote:
SJOtoLIR wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
Copa doesn't do that, say, in Chile

From what I've read in other sources: CM doesn't fly to secondary cities in Chile, if LATAM doesn't fly to Panama City.
The business model of CM in Argentina is like CM in Brazil, offering multiplle cities and weekly frequencies, in those large countries.

Regards.

Really surprised they don’t fly to ANF (Antofagasta Chile), city is medium size, fairly isolated and very wealthy. Screams Copa to me!

that's what I was thinking too!!
 
AntonioMartin
Topic Author
Posts: 835
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Sat May 01, 2021 10:13 pm

dcajet wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
Kilgen wrote:
Before the pandemic, CM was looking to expand to other destinations in Argentina. They started Salta, but Tucuman and Igazu was in their radar as well.

In Spanish: https://www.sirchandler.com.ar/2018/06/ ... -e-iguazu/

So they were gonna fly from Tocumen to Tucuman??? hmnnn...


COPA's business model is not carrying people from say, Salta or Rosario to Panama, but rather use the Panama hub to offer quick connections to the Caribbean, Central America, Northern South America, Mexico and the US. On any given CM flight from Argentina you may have more fingers in your hands that passengers that terminate their trip at Panama. The same applies to secondary cities in Brazil other than Rio and Sao Paulo and to where CM operates (POA, CNF, etc.)

COPA has tapped into a market not very well served by the local airlines, with the right-sized equipment (73G/738/MAX 9), providing convenience and good service at the right price point. If you were to, in the case of Argentina , take AR from SLA to MIA, it'd most likely entail a 2-hr flight south to AEP, a transfer between airports (AEP-->EZE) and then a 9-hr flight north to MIA. Madness. You see now why COPA has been so successful flying to these cities. It is often said in Argentina that AR is an airline from Buenos Aires for the benefit of the Buenos Aires traveler. COPA to PTY, LATAM to GRU, LIM & SCL and Air Europa are examples of airlines that have found success serving interior Argentina.


Oh yeah...I was just saying, Tocumen to Tucuman, thuogh...sounds very similar...
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 3006
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Sun May 02, 2021 2:28 am

santi319 wrote:
SJOtoLIR wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
Copa doesn't do that, say, in Chile

From what I've read in other sources: CM doesn't fly to secondary cities in Chile, if LATAM doesn't fly to Panama City.
The business model of CM in Argentina is like CM in Brazil, offering multiplle cities and weekly frequencies, in those large countries.

Regards.
Really surprised they don’t fly to ANF (Antofagasta Chile), city is medium size, fairly isolated and very wealthy. Screams Copa to me!
ANF might make more sense than CJC Calama / San Pedro Atacama, ARI Arica (also works for Tacna Perú) or IQQ Iquique, which could have a cargo demand from PTY.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3160
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

Re: Copa in inner Argentina

Sun May 02, 2021 3:20 am

AntonioMartin wrote:
that's what I was thinking too!!

It's only a hypothesis as I don't manage any reliable source, in order to validate the accuracy of such statement. However, it makes sense of logic.
CM has the potential for the opening of secondary Chilean destinations. I wouldn't speculate about what airports they might operate, in the future.
Back to the former topic, the airline has successfully implemented the model of serving multiple airports in selected large countries, given the potential of huge connectivity through PTY.
For instance, the United States, Brazil and Colombia have more than six active destinations where CM is actively flying at, based on their own business model. Argentina might follow a similar pattern, given their operations at EZE, COR, MDZ, ROS and SLA.
The airline had tried unsucessfuly before to develop their business model in Argentina, even though their requests were denied.
Cordoba was the second Argentine city where the airline started their services. When CM PTY-COR began in 2007, the USA, Brazil and Colombia already had multiple airports operated by the Panamanian flagship airline. Probably CM PTY-EZE was 3x daily or so, in those days.
Finally, I spare this post release stating about the chance of Copa Airlines flying Tocumen - Tucuman. :bouncy:

https://www.tucumanturismo.gob.ar/prensa/16018/copa-airlines-estudia-la-posibilidad-de-operar-desde-tucuman

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"

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