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CMHARJ
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US3 International Employees

Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:29 pm

I remember during the NW days, NW would have their own employees stationed in NRT, since it was technically a hub. They also had Asian based flight attendants assisting the US based flight attendants on flights to/from NRT. I believe the reason behind that was the Japanese customer was very picky when it comes to culture and having the Asian based flight attendants eased the flight time. With NRT no longer a hub for DL, are there are international stations for any of the US3 that are actually employed by those US3 airlines? I'm curious if ICN has any DL employees since DL wants to funnel their Asian traffic through ICN, however, with ICN being a KE hub, I can just imagine KE employees operating the DL flights.
 
CALMSP
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Re: US3 International Employees

Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:55 pm

UA has staff in LHR, I believe some still in NRT and a few in FRA.
 
CALAV8R
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Re: US3 International Employees

Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:37 pm

CALMSP wrote:
UA has staff in LHR, I believe some still in NRT and a few in FRA.


Unfortunately, thanks to COVID related changes, United closed its crew bases in FRA, HKG, NRT. All of those flights are now operated by mainland US based crew. UA retains an international inflight crew base at LHR. (Though not international, UA also retains crew bases in GUM and HNL.) However, crew aside, UA does have a large number of directly hired employees globally in customer care and airport ops roles.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: US3 International Employees

Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:41 pm

CALMSP wrote:
UA has staff in LHR, I believe some still in NRT and a few in FRA.


Only LHR remains. NRT, HKG, and FRA crew bases were closed in 2020 due to the pandemic.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: US3 International Employees

Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:42 pm

AA I believe has a crew base in EZE, LHR, and I feel like CDG is one as well (or was). BOG too.
 
Italianflyer
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Re: US3 International Employees

Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:53 pm

Demographics have changed within the US significantly over the years. Finding a candidate who was fluent in English and an Asian language but willing to start at new hire flight attendant wages, despite the "glamor", was difficult. They could start at a multinational after college for two or three times the starting FA salary.

The US3 got smart and started premium pay LOD (language of destination) with preferential bidding privileges. There are more second generation Asian Americans than there were 30 years ago; deepening the talent pool. Establishing crew bases overseas to fill cultural/language needs are simply redundant.

One of the reasons why LHR is still a domicile for United is the ultra high cost of hotels. Yes US-based crews still overnight there.... but having a small domicile can trim the need for hotel rooms by 10 to 15 units a night.
 
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mercure1
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Re: US3 International Employees

Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:07 pm

The US3 also have ground staff in many cities globally.
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floridaflyboy
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Re: US3 International Employees

Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:21 pm

mercure1 wrote:
The US3 also have ground staff in many cities globally.


Outsourced international stations are still wayyyyyyy more common than in-house international stations. I've travelled to at least 30 international stations in the past few years on the US3 and can count on one hand how many were ground-handled (above or below wing) by the airline on my boarding pass.
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PNWaviationNut
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Re: US3 International Employees

Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:41 pm

My experience with DL has been that in smaller stations, there will be a couple of DL employees who oversee the contract ground staff and can do things that may require an actual DL person to authorize. When I last went though NRT, they were all DL staff above wing, but as I understood it when they moved over to HND they were kept if they wanted to make the change. In LHR I have seen DL red coats who are working flights with VS agents doing most of the actual pax boarding and customer service work. Of course this was all pre-COVID, so who knows how the world has changed since.
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Corpsnerd09
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Re: US3 International Employees

Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:59 pm

AA has full staff at LHR, CDG, FRA, even ramp, Customer service in MAD, MUC, ZRH, FCO, BCN, MXP, DUB... All other stations in Europe have 1 or 2 AA folks and the rest are contractor even seasonal ones. NRT, PVG have customer service and rest of Asia has an AA GM or AA Local Rep. Latin America depends on the country, EZE and GRU have full staff, SCL, BOG, LIM, CUN, MEX, PVR, SJD etc have insource customer service, the rest vary between 1 AA rep and Customer Service agents, too many to list. I know Ecuador has all contractor. Most Caribbean Islands are a mix but generally have a GM ... PAP and NAS are other fully staffed ones... Or used to be...

Canada has YUL and YYZ fully staffed and YOW had customer service until just recently, I believe YVR is Envoy?

AA also has LPL, EZE, LIM, GRU, POS, MTY, MEX reservations that are insource

FA bases inherited from EA at BOG, LIM, SCL, EZE

Anyone please add anything I'm missing and correct me some of my info may be pre COVID
 
asuflyer
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Re: US3 International Employees

Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:35 pm

United has a large operations and IT office in Gurgaon, India a city not far from the DEL airport.
 
EFHK
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Re: US3 International Employees

Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:44 pm

Corpsnerd09 wrote:
FA bases inherited from EA at BOG, LIM, SCL, EZE


I flew MIA-BZE-MIA on AA in 2019, and it was interesting that the FAs on the flight were Bogota-based. I assume that scheduling Bogota-based crew on other routes as well is done as a cost-saving measure?
 
CALMSP
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Re: US3 International Employees

Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:28 pm

CALAV8R wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
UA has staff in LHR, I believe some still in NRT and a few in FRA.


Unfortunately, thanks to COVID related changes, United closed its crew bases in FRA, HKG, NRT. All of those flights are now operated by mainland US based crew. UA retains an international inflight crew base at LHR. (Though not international, UA also retains crew bases in GUM and HNL.) However, crew aside, UA does have a large number of directly hired employees globally in customer care and airport ops roles.


sorry, took the OP as ground staff, not FA's.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: US3 International Employees

Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:16 pm

I have wondered how much of an impact this had on TW & PA as they had traditionally had more local staffing than today's model has. As deregulation came along and other carriers entered routes but with a lower staffing cost in the local market...part of that must have played into ability to remain competitive.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: US3 International Employees

Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:38 am

TWFlyGuy wrote:
I have wondered how much of an impact this had on TW & PA as they had traditionally had more local staffing than today's model has. As deregulation came along and other carriers entered routes but with a lower staffing cost in the local market...part of that must have played into ability to remain competitive.


The higher airfares would have offset the higher costs and new market entrants would be hit with high start up costs. However, there have been some extreme staffing examples: at one point UA had 90 staff in NZ to handle one daily AKL-MEL & AKL-LAX flight.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: US3 International Employees

Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:57 pm

Corpsnerd09 wrote:
AA has full staff at LHR, CDG, FRA, even ramp, Customer service in MAD, MUC, ZRH, FCO, BCN, MXP, DUB... All other stations in Europe have 1 or 2 AA folks and the rest are contractor even seasonal ones. NRT, PVG have customer service and rest of Asia has an AA GM or AA Local Rep. Latin America depends on the country, EZE and GRU have full staff, SCL, BOG, LIM, CUN, MEX, PVR, SJD etc have insource customer service, the rest vary between 1 AA rep and Customer Service agents, too many to list. I know Ecuador has all contractor. Most Caribbean Islands are a mix but generally have a GM ... PAP and NAS are other fully staffed ones... Or used to be...

Canada has YUL and YYZ fully staffed and YOW had customer service until just recently, I believe YVR is Envoy?

AA also has LPL, EZE, LIM, GRU, POS, MTY, MEX reservations that are insource

FA bases inherited from EA at BOG, LIM, SCL, EZE

Anyone please add anything I'm missing and correct me some of my info may be pre COVID


To add on I believe MAD has around 60-100 employees (not all working at the same time) I do believe there were 1-2 in house technicians too.


From MXP I thought there was only a SM and Supervisor?
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FCOTSTW
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Re: US3 International Employees

Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:07 pm

UA at FCO (and I might think at MXP too) are all outsourced employees hired on a seasonal basis.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: US3 International Employees

Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:24 pm

eta unknown wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
I have wondered how much of an impact this had on TW & PA as they had traditionally had more local staffing than today's model has. As deregulation came along and other carriers entered routes but with a lower staffing cost in the local market...part of that must have played into ability to remain competitive.


The higher airfares would have offset the higher costs and new market entrants would be hit with high start up costs. However, there have been some extreme staffing examples: at one point UA had 90 staff in NZ to handle one daily AKL-MEL & AKL-LAX flight.


That was part of the issue...as new carriers entered, airfares fell and with the 747s those carriers were flying, they ended up flying a lot of junk fares.

Of those 90 in AKL, how many were sales people drumming up business in the community? Just curious as that is interesting. Or are you saying they had 90 airport operations staff?
 
Corpsnerd09
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Re: US3 International Employees

Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:00 pm

EFHK wrote:
Corpsnerd09 wrote:
FA bases inherited from EA at BOG, LIM, SCL, EZE


I flew MIA-BZE-MIA on AA in 2019, and it was interesting that the FAs on the flight were Bogota-based. I assume that scheduling Bogota-based crew on other routes as well is done as a cost-saving measure?


They fly routes out of MIA only I believe, so you'll have MIA-BOG the FAs could be from any base but DFW-BOG will only be from US based.
 
Corpsnerd09
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Re: US3 International Employees

Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:02 pm

lesfalls wrote:
Corpsnerd09 wrote:
AA has full staff at LHR, CDG, FRA, even ramp, Customer service in MAD, MUC, ZRH, FCO, BCN, MXP, DUB... All other stations in Europe have 1 or 2 AA folks and the rest are contractor even seasonal ones. NRT, PVG have customer service and rest of Asia has an AA GM or AA Local Rep. Latin America depends on the country, EZE and GRU have full staff, SCL, BOG, LIM, CUN, MEX, PVR, SJD etc have insource customer service, the rest vary between 1 AA rep and Customer Service agents, too many to list. I know Ecuador has all contractor. Most Caribbean Islands are a mix but generally have a GM ... PAP and NAS are other fully staffed ones... Or used to be...

Canada has YUL and YYZ fully staffed and YOW had customer service until just recently, I believe YVR is Envoy?

AA also has LPL, EZE, LIM, GRU, POS, MTY, MEX reservations that are insource

FA bases inherited from EA at BOG, LIM, SCL, EZE

Anyone please add anything I'm missing and correct me some of my info may be pre COVID


To add on I believe MAD has around 60-100 employees (not all working at the same time) I do believe there were 1-2 in house technicians too.


From MXP I thought there was only a SM and Supervisor?


I believe you're right about MXP, perhaps it was FCO, either way, there's several European and other Intl Stations with full staffing.
 
Vicenza
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Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:21 pm

Re: US3 International Employees

Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:43 pm

CMHARJ wrote:
I remember during the NW days, NW would have their own employees stationed in NRT, since it was technically a hub. They also had Asian based flight attendants assisting the US based flight attendants on flights to/from NRT. I believe the reason behind that was the Japanese customer was very picky when it comes to culture and having the Asian based flight attendants eased the flight time. With NRT no longer a hub for DL, are there are international stations for any of the US3 that are actually employed by those US3 airlines? I'm curious if ICN has any DL employees since DL wants to funnel their Asian traffic through ICN, however, with ICN being a KE hub, I can just imagine KE employees operating the DL flights.


Just out of curiosity (and for clarity), when saying 'employees' are you specifically meaning US citizens, or citizens of that xxxx country directly employed there by the airline?
 
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DLHAM
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Re: US3 International Employees

Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:34 pm

When Continental and United flew to Hamburg they had staff here too. But parts of the handling was done by other companies.
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CALMSP
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Re: US3 International Employees

Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:54 am

DLHAM wrote:
When Continental and United flew to Hamburg they had staff here too. But parts of the handling was done by other companies.


as in a General Manager, maybe a supervisor, there were no gate agents/ticket agents/ramp agents that were actual CO/UA employees.
 
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WassbiKhalifa
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Re: US3 International Employees

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:34 am

DL has a mix of employees and contractors at ICN. Excellent above the wing staff there for sure.
 
ThalesCoelho
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Re: US3 International Employees

Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:16 am

I was an American Airlines contractor staff at CNF around 2014-2016.Everyone on the station was employed by the contractor, only the mechanic was a direct AA employee.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: US3 International Employees

Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:34 am

Vicenza wrote:
CMHARJ wrote:
I remember during the NW days, NW would have their own employees stationed in NRT, since it was technically a hub. They also had Asian based flight attendants assisting the US based flight attendants on flights to/from NRT. I believe the reason behind that was the Japanese customer was very picky when it comes to culture and having the Asian based flight attendants eased the flight time. With NRT no longer a hub for DL, are there are international stations for any of the US3 that are actually employed by those US3 airlines? I'm curious if ICN has any DL employees since DL wants to funnel their Asian traffic through ICN, however, with ICN being a KE hub, I can just imagine KE employees operating the DL flights.


Just out of curiosity (and for clarity), when saying 'employees' are you specifically meaning US citizens, or citizens of that xxxx country directly employed there by the airline?

The latter: locals employed directly by US carriers on the payroll.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: US3 International Employees

Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:39 am

TWFlyGuy wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
I have wondered how much of an impact this had on TW & PA as they had traditionally had more local staffing than today's model has. As deregulation came along and other carriers entered routes but with a lower staffing cost in the local market...part of that must have played into ability to remain competitive.


The higher airfares would have offset the higher costs and new market entrants would be hit with high start up costs. However, there have been some extreme staffing examples: at one point UA had 90 staff in NZ to handle one daily AKL-MEL & AKL-LAX flight.


That was part of the issue...as new carriers entered, airfares fell and with the 747s those carriers were flying, they ended up flying a lot of junk fares.

Of those 90 in AKL, how many were sales people drumming up business in the community? Just curious as that is interesting. Or are you saying they had 90 airport operations staff?

UA AKL: airport and sales/admin. It was a ridiculous number- even if you subcontracted the ground handling out it was still way too high. I've worked in similar situations and you can have the entire operation run with under 25 people.- you can reduce that number even further if head office handles all the reservations.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: US3 International Employees

Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:12 am

Corpsnerd09 wrote:
AA has full staff at LHR, even ramp.

Anyone please add anything I'm missing and correct me some of my info may be pre COVID


Close...... AA has absolutely everybody at LHR including AMT ( divert station). The only part they are missing is the underwing operation, of unloading/loading, pushing and Towing, which are contracted out to Menzies.
The only below wing part of the Op they have is the baggage , and that is due to US security rulings.

Other than that, AA’s LHR Op is a big Station, at its peak pre Covid, certainly bigger than many US stations, and staffed by some brilliant people too.
 
BTV290
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Re: US3 International Employees

Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:20 am

PNWaviationNut wrote:
My experience with DL has been that in smaller stations, there will be a couple of DL employees who oversee the contract ground staff and can do things that may require an actual DL person to authorize. When I last went though NRT, they were all DL staff above wing, but as I understood it when they moved over to HND they were kept if they wanted to make the change. In LHR I have seen DL red coats who are working flights with VS agents doing most of the actual pax boarding and customer service work. Of course this was all pre-COVID, so who knows how the world has changed since.


So in LHR, those Red Coats are actually VS staff on special assignment to the DL team, wearing the DL uniform. But they work for VS. Much like how VS agents in several US cities are actually DL agents in VS uniforms.
I find it's really a mixed bag and a lot of it has to do with how staffing was arranged pre-mergers, when you find inconsistencies between similarly sized international stations. There are also sometimes local laws preventing outsourcing of certain departments. For example everyone in Brazil working customer service is a mainline DL employee due to local labour laws. I assume the same would apply to other international carriers in Brazil. This is also the case for the Mexican stations. Smaller stations which are/were seasonal or only one flight a day usually have a DL manager(s) and then all contract staff. Some are so mall they actually share a manager between two geographically close stations. Then there are year-round stations (MAD, FCO, etc.) with DL mainline staff in customer service and contract ramp. Then you have the partner fortress hubs which are basically all partner staff (AMS, CDG), but then sizable DL mainline maintenance bases, plus a full mainline operations department.
It's all a combination of laws and historical contract bidding weirdness, and it's hard to make true generalisations.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: US3 International Employees

Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:51 pm

CALMSP wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
When Continental and United flew to Hamburg they had staff here too. But parts of the handling was done by other companies.


as in a General Manager, maybe a supervisor, there were no gate agents/ticket agents/ramp agents that were actual CO/UA employees.


No but there was a Station Manager and 3-4 other employees. Ticketing and Concierge Service was done by my company, Check-In by another and Ramp by yet another. It was amazing how many companies were involved, but it all worked fine.
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Adipocere
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Re: US3 International Employees

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:55 pm

How about some of the more senior executives - Vasu Raja, Priya Aiyar or Rakesh Gangwal and the likes. Would be interesting to know how and where they started their careers.
 
CALMSP
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Re: US3 International Employees

Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Adipocere wrote:
How about some of the more senior executives - Vasu Raja, Priya Aiyar or Rakesh Gangwal and the likes. Would be interesting to know how and where they started their careers.


thats what LinkedIn is for!
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: US3 International Employees

Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:07 pm

CALAV8R wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
UA has staff in LHR, I believe some still in NRT and a few in FRA.


Unfortunately, thanks to COVID related changes, United closed its crew bases in FRA, HKG, NRT. All of those flights are now operated by mainland US based crew. UA retains an international inflight crew base at LHR. (Though not international, UA also retains crew bases in GUM and HNL.) However, crew aside, UA does have a large number of directly hired employees globally in customer care and airport ops roles.


United also has a team of revenue management people and a few others at Amsterdam.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
maverick4002
Posts: 435
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: US3 International Employees

Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:57 pm

EFHK wrote:
Corpsnerd09 wrote:
FA bases inherited from EA at BOG, LIM, SCL, EZE


I flew MIA-BZE-MIA on AA in 2019, and it was interesting that the FAs on the flight were Bogota-based. I assume that scheduling Bogota-based crew on other routes as well is done as a cost-saving measure?


Any Belize recs? I am going tomorrorw
 
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lesfalls
Posts: 3531
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Re: US3 International Employees

Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:10 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
CALAV8R wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
UA has staff in LHR, I believe some still in NRT and a few in FRA.


Unfortunately, thanks to COVID related changes, United closed its crew bases in FRA, HKG, NRT. All of those flights are now operated by mainland US based crew. UA retains an international inflight crew base at LHR. (Though not international, UA also retains crew bases in GUM and HNL.) However, crew aside, UA does have a large number of directly hired employees globally in customer care and airport ops roles.


United also has a team of revenue management people and a few others at Amsterdam.

Yes around 10-20 typically relocated from their Chicago HQ typically as if we were back in the 60s (in terms of airline staff relocation from home base)
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
CMHARJ
Topic Author
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:28 am

Re: US3 International Employees

Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:14 pm

Vicenza wrote:
CMHARJ wrote:
I remember during the NW days, NW would have their own employees stationed in NRT, since it was technically a hub. They also had Asian based flight attendants assisting the US based flight attendants on flights to/from NRT. I believe the reason behind that was the Japanese customer was very picky when it comes to culture and having the Asian based flight attendants eased the flight time. With NRT no longer a hub for DL, are there are international stations for any of the US3 that are actually employed by those US3 airlines? I'm curious if ICN has any DL employees since DL wants to funnel their Asian traffic through ICN, however, with ICN being a KE hub, I can just imagine KE employees operating the DL flights.


Just out of curiosity (and for clarity), when saying 'employees' are you specifically meaning US citizens, or citizens of that xxxx country directly employed there by the airline?


Actual mainline employees of the particular country. Not necessarily US citizens. For instance. When NW/DL had the NRT hub, they were Japanese citizens employed by DL with DL benefits.
 
FGITD
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Re: US3 International Employees

Sat May 01, 2021 2:47 am

DLHAM wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
When Continental and United flew to Hamburg they had staff here too. But parts of the handling was done by other companies.


as in a General Manager, maybe a supervisor, there were no gate agents/ticket agents/ramp agents that were actual CO/UA employees.


No but there was a Station Manager and 3-4 other employees. Ticketing and Concierge Service was done by my company, Check-In by another and Ramp by yet another. It was amazing how many companies were involved, but it all worked fine.


Sounds about right. I’ve worked for a few that are the opposite of this thread (foreign carriers in the US) and it’s crazy how many companies are involved.

Pax service, ramp, cleaning, cargo, baggage service, maintenance, security, catering...all provided by a different company. And usually the outstations had been 2-4 direct employees
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: US3 International Employees

Sat May 01, 2021 3:11 pm

lesfalls wrote:
Yes around 10-20 typically relocated from their Chicago HQ typically as if we were back in the 60s (in terms of airline staff relocation from home base)


Some who work in United's Amsterdam office are from the US that's for sure, but many are European. I know someone who works there. They cover the transatlantic routes revenue management and so on.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!

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