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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 14, 2021 11:00 am

OA260 wrote:
Looks like Ryanair are on a mission to improve customer care / perceptions. Maybe they should just refund their customers who constantly complain when they post on Social Media and did not even use a OTA.


That's hilarious!

Ryanair keep trying to be customer centric in their attitude, but they just don't seem to be able to get there.

OA260 wrote:
Not sure the government has any powers to extend the agreement on the SNN slots use. Although I did read comments somewhere else that other pressures could be enacted.


They definitely don't. Aer Lingus will be able to do what they want with those slots. Commercial realities will dictate what happens here, which is for the best.

OA260 wrote:
Ireland West Airport Knock has today welcomed one of the largest passenger aircrafts in the world - the Airbus A330-302.


Was this written by a four year old? Anyone who writes "aircrafts" in an English language publication - and it getting through editors - immediately loses any respect from me. Aircrafts. Ugh!!!!
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 14, 2021 11:11 am

ClassicLover wrote:

OA260 wrote:
Not sure the government has any powers to extend the agreement on the SNN slots use. Although I did read comments somewhere else that other pressures could be enacted.


They definitely don't. Aer Lingus will be able to do what they want with those slots. Commercial realities will dictate what happens here, which is for the best.



Maybe the government will offer incentives to maintain the SNN-LHR route or could do other things to make it a harder decision for Aer Lingus to axe it. Maybe Emerald could take it over under the Aer Lingus Regional brand.
 
bennett123
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 14, 2021 11:44 am

BrianDromey wrote:
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0514/1221515-ryanair-travel-restrictions/
Ryanair wants EU and UK travel restrictions lifted by end of May
[I]"Ryanair has called for the removal of all travel restrictions from the end of May for air travel between Ireland and both the UK and EU.

The airline said the reducing numbers of people in hospital with Covid-19, coupled with the rollout of the Covid-19 vaccine, means restrictions including hotel quarantine should end.

"Thanks to the success of the UK's vaccine program, there is no justification for requiring visitors to Ireland from the UK (our major visitor market) to quarantine," said Ryanair CEO Eddie Wilson."[/]

Good on Ryanair for pushing for restrictions to be lifted. I think the end of May is very ambitious, but the sooner they press for the better. I do take issue with some of their statements like "UK travellers pose no risk", this just is not true and I think it undermines their case. Taking issue with MHQ for EU countries and not for EU countries is clearly beneficial to short-haul, predominantly EU focussed Ryanair.


Ryanair wants aviation opened up, because the current situation is hurting something close his heart. In other words his bank balance.

In other breaking news, the Pope is a Catholic.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 14, 2021 12:27 pm

OA260 wrote:
Maybe the government will offer incentives to maintain the SNN-LHR route or could do other things to make it a harder decision for Aer Lingus to axe it. Maybe Emerald could take it over under the Aer Lingus Regional brand.

I guess anything is possible. I would guess Emerald taking it over are unlikely as the ATRs would be very small and LHR charges be punitive. At group level IAG have more slots at LHR than they know what to do with and when the use-it-or-loose-it is back in force they will have a real problem. I am assuming you can't just turn on demand and profitability overnight after over a year of operating at 20% of 2019 levels. I think SNN will be on the departure board for some time.

Is it still the case that routes that haven't operated for more than 12 months are eligible for incentives from state airports? I think SNN might be eligible in that case, NOC would be a place they could use LHR slots, in place of the LGW service.
 
Galwayman
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 14, 2021 1:43 pm

Definitely a strong case to move NOC from LGW to LHR if they need to protect slots
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 15, 2021 6:02 pm

OA260 wrote:
Some positive vibes coming from government about CTA travel opening up .


Travel restrictions between Ireland and Britain should be lifted during the summer, Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has said.
Mr Varadkar said he will be making the case to fully restore the Common Travel Area between the two countries in the coming months to boost pub and restaurant trade for the beleaguered tourism industry

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tr ... 14555.html


This may suddenly look less appealing to Ireland’s ever cautious government now that the new variant first seen in India is raising concerns in the UK. Even if it’s already in the community in Ireland, which is likely at this stage.

A sense of deja vu is falling across Britain this weekend after Johnson’s latest press conference essentially told us to prepare ourselves. The UK public health authorities (SAGE) are once again predicting the worst and calling for a delay to Britain’s much publicised reopening but the government isn’t convinced in their modelling.

It stems back to the delayed decision to place India on the UK red list back in April.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/indi ... -l7q608tgf

If this plays out as SAGE so pessimistically expects, it could be another lengthy setback to travel.
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 15, 2021 7:08 pm

Aer Lingus have suspended* SNN-BOS for the summer, JFK restart pushed out to July 19th. Perhaps some confidence SNN-LHR remains available from June 21st.

DUB-US also pushed out to Jul 19th with SEA suspended*, IAD/YYZ delayed to mid August and September.

* until Oct 31, winter schedule not updated.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 16, 2021 8:39 am

Aer Lingus flight crews are told ‘no US jabs on duty’

Some flight crews availed of the plentiful vaccine supply to get the jab during turnaround time in the US

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/hea ... 30754.html

I think Aer Lingus are being slightly harsh in this policy. Many younger crews are are way down the list for being vaccinated in Ireland and some airlines have arranged for crews to be vaccinated due to their risk / exposure to C-19 more then most.
 
shamrock321
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 16, 2021 9:44 am

OA260 wrote:
Aer Lingus flight crews are told ‘no US jabs on duty’

Some flight crews availed of the plentiful vaccine supply to get the jab during turnaround time in the US

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/hea ... 30754.html

I think Aer Lingus are being slightly harsh in this policy. Many younger crews are are way down the list for being vaccinated in Ireland and some airlines have arranged for crews to be vaccinated due to their risk / exposure to C-19 more then most.


At my airline we are given 2 days off after a vaccine to allow us to recover from any side effects. Getting a vaccine in the US and the potentially feeling very ill in the flight home isn’t ideal and I think Aer Lingus are correct to ensure their crew do nothing can could potentially jeopardise the safety of their flights!
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 16, 2021 10:37 am

shamrock321 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Aer Lingus flight crews are told ‘no US jabs on duty’

Some flight crews availed of the plentiful vaccine supply to get the jab during turnaround time in the US

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/hea ... 30754.html

I think Aer Lingus are being slightly harsh in this policy. Many younger crews are are way down the list for being vaccinated in Ireland and some airlines have arranged for crews to be vaccinated due to their risk / exposure to C-19 more then most.


At my airline we are given 2 days off after a vaccine to allow us to recover from any side effects. Getting a vaccine in the US and the potentially feeling very ill in the flight home isn’t ideal and I think Aer Lingus are correct to ensure their crew do nothing can could potentially jeopardise the safety of their flights!


I agree its the right call by then if EASA also issued the advise.

Staff can use travel perks if they want to go vaccine shopping…
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 16, 2021 10:42 am

shamrock321 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Aer Lingus flight crews are told ‘no US jabs on duty’

Some flight crews availed of the plentiful vaccine supply to get the jab during turnaround time in the US

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/hea ... 30754.html

I think Aer Lingus are being slightly harsh in this policy. Many younger crews are are way down the list for being vaccinated in Ireland and some airlines have arranged for crews to be vaccinated due to their risk / exposure to C-19 more then most.


At my airline we are given 2 days off after a vaccine to allow us to recover from any side effects. Getting a vaccine in the US and the potentially feeling very ill in the flight home isn’t ideal and I think Aer Lingus are correct to ensure their crew do nothing can could potentially jeopardise the safety of their flights!


Its in the interests of Aer Lingus to have all staff vaccinated so maybe crew rosters could be adjusted temporarily to give the crew 48 + hours rest in the USA to facilitate this requirement for those that want to. The small increased costs would be worth it to add that extra layer of protection for its crews.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 16, 2021 10:52 am

I would have thought that 2 Il62M visiting SNN this weekend would be worthy of this thread…???
 
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AmricanShamrok
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 16, 2021 12:21 pm

UA EWR-SNN to resume in S22 with new flight numbers. Hopefully we're in a better state by then.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 16, 2021 1:21 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
shamrock321 wrote:
At my airline we are given 2 days off after a vaccine to allow us to recover from any side effects. Getting a vaccine in the US and the potentially feeling very ill in the flight home isn’t ideal and I think Aer Lingus are correct to ensure their crew do nothing can could potentially jeopardise the safety of their flights!


I agree its the right call by then if EASA also issued the advise.

Staff can use travel perks if they want to go vaccine shopping…


Sure, the staff can use the travel perks... when the entire country is under a policy of not being permitted to travel. Yeah, that's gonna work. Not.

I'm on the side of the employees here. If I had the opportunity to get the vaccine while I was abroad, I would take it.
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 16, 2021 1:50 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
shamrock321 wrote:
At my airline we are given 2 days off after a vaccine to allow us to recover from any side effects. Getting a vaccine in the US and the potentially feeling very ill in the flight home isn’t ideal and I think Aer Lingus are correct to ensure their crew do nothing can could potentially jeopardise the safety of their flights!


I agree its the right call by then if EASA also issued the advise.

Staff can use travel perks if they want to go vaccine shopping…


Sure, the staff can use the travel perks... when the entire country is under a policy of not being permitted to travel. Yeah, that's gonna work. Not.

I'm on the side of the employees here. If I had the opportunity to get the vaccine while I was abroad, I would take it.


I don’t care either way but if the advise is coming from EASA then Aer Lingus are just doing there job. Any airline would do the same.

Staff have a safety critical role and its up to Aer Lingus to ensure staff are fully able to perform duties and the reality is 48 hours is the general time frame for and side affects to materialise so yes not ideal to have crew flying even if its unlikely to have any impact.

The first comment implied it was harsh from Aer Lingus, its not them deciding the guidance here.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 16, 2021 3:46 pm

The Last Post: Buying back Aer Lingus might not actually be a flight of fancy

It would cost us dearly, but our tourist industry and international connectivity may depend on the state repurchasing the national airline

www.businesspost.ie/the-last-post/the-l ... y-7b13aba3


Interesting view but I doubt it would be a wise idea and certainly better things for the state to be getting involved in and concentrating on. We have seen what political interference has done in the past and was a joy to see the back of it.
 
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Phen
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 16, 2021 8:27 pm

OA260 wrote:
Interesting view but I doubt it would be a wise idea and certainly better things for the state to be getting involved in and concentrating on. We have seen what political interference has done in the past and was a joy to see the back of it.

Perhaps its worth more thought. Luis Gallego's comments re Aer Lingus at the announcement of IAG's Q1 results last week were not particularly encouraging. He highlighted how Aer Lingus are operating in the most restrictive market of all IAG OPCOs from a Government-imposed travel restrictions point of view. There is no sign of that to change significantly in Ireland.

So just playing devil's advocate here, I don't think IAG are sympathetic to Aer Lingus' problems and could be more likely to look at EI as a burden going forward. I think all the talk from Govt about Ireland adopting the EU DGC is just that - talk. Behind the scenes you can be sure NPHET will not allow significant in/outbound travel this summer. EI is going to have to deal with 2 consecutive lost summers, so I would actually be inclined to start thinking the idea of renationalising the airline could be a better long term option from a staff point of view and for retention of some level of connectivity rather than waiting for IAG to start transferring EI's assets to other OPCOs and essentially strip the company back to a bare bones operation. Lets imagine it were nationalised - the Govt would be as well to try to keep employees in jobs because if they don't they'll have to pay their social welfare anyway. Right now I think I'd rather be looking at becoming an employee of the state again rather than taking a chance with a large multinational who won't be afraid to shed jobs if push comes to shove.
 
EI320
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 16, 2021 9:26 pm

Renationalising EI (which in any event would require IAG to sell - which is doubtful) really isn’t the answer to anything. I’m surprised the BP published that article.
 
Vicenza
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 16, 2021 9:35 pm

Phen wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Interesting view but I doubt it would be a wise idea and certainly better things for the state to be getting involved in and concentrating on. We have seen what political interference has done in the past and was a joy to see the back of it.

Perhaps its worth more thought. Luis Gallego's comments re Aer Lingus at the announcement of IAG's Q1 results last week were not particularly encouraging. He highlighted how Aer Lingus are operating in the most restrictive market of all IAG OPCOs from a Government-imposed travel restrictions point of view. There is no sign of that to change significantly in Ireland.

So just playing devil's advocate here, I don't think IAG are sympathetic to Aer Lingus' problems and could be more likely to look at EI as a burden going forward.


This was known to any intelligent person with foresight so you indeed very close to the truth. The prime mover for IAG was Aer Lingus's extremely valuable slots at LHR for the sole benefit of BA. They were never interested in Aer Lingus as an equal partner airline.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Mon May 17, 2021 8:27 am

Renationalising EI would be disaster. Instead of being part of one of the most profitable and largest airline groups in the world and integrated into the leading transatlantic JV venture, EI would become an outside on the periphery of Europe. Worse, it would be at the whim of a political system known for whimsical flights of fancy and facing a nightly competitor in Ryanair. What ills would nationalising EI cure for the Irish tourism industry or out international connectivity? Nationalising EI is probably the last thing that should be done.

Vicenza wrote:
This was known to any intelligent person with foresight so you indeed very close to the truth. The prime mover for IAG was Aer Lingus's extremely valuable slots at LHR for the sole benefit of BA. They were never interested in Aer Lingus as an equal partner airline.

Do you have evidence for this, or just opinion? Since joining IAG Aer Lingus has consistently been a strong performer for the group, with outsize returns in terms of capital invested.

Since the IAG takeover Aer Lingus has expanded its A330 fleet significantly, to 14 frames and ordered 14 A321LR/LRXs. The short haul fleet has remained stable, with rolling replacements but the Regional fleet has grown too. Aer Lingus joined the Avios program and the transatlantic joint venture. There has been a rebranding and new uniforms. No slots have transferred to BA or even to BHD where the slots could have been used instead for the benefit of BA.
There will be difficulties as Europe opens, or perhaps does not. It wont be as quick as the travel industry would like. There are very negative messages coming from the UK health ministers today, so while the UK might be "open" for travel IAG will be issuing a lot of Vouchers for amber list destinations, I think.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Mon May 17, 2021 10:25 am

An extensive interview with Dalton Philips on dealing with the crisis and interaction with staff who were furloughed.


Dublin Airport’s Dalton Philips: ‘You really can’t communicate too much in a crisis’

https://www.ft.com/content/632c31f5-b78 ... b7a6dd5805
 
shadyshamrock
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Mon May 17, 2021 4:56 pm

It's on the news all day no non-essential travel until August at the earliest. There goes summer 21.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Mon May 17, 2021 5:22 pm

shadyshamrock wrote:
It's on the news all day no non-essential travel until August at the earliest. There goes summer 21.


Well it was pretty much predicted. Parts of the HSE have collapsed despite being warned about cutting corners on cyber security. The restrictions will filter through to air travel as authorities cant afford a rise in cases further putting strain on the system. So with all the cautions other countries are putting in place sadly Ireland have another national emergency now to cope with. Already rumours the CTA travel bubble will also be effected by this . I predict the rollout of the EU Covid -19 travel certificate will be impacted also so Irish Aviation will further need to adapt and possibly another lean Winter.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Mon May 17, 2021 7:41 pm

OA260 wrote:
Interesting view but I doubt it would be a wise idea and certainly better things for the state to be getting involved in and concentrating on. We have seen what political interference has done in the past and was a joy to see the back of it.


Politicians love interfering with aviation, as it gives them something to do :)

EI320 wrote:
Renationalising EI (which in any event would require IAG to sell - which is doubtful) really isn’t the answer to anything. I’m surprised the BP published that article.


Not going to happen.

Aer Lingus had the highest ROIC at IAG before the pandemic and they will again.

Just another article by a bored journalist.

Not at all surprised about no travel until at least August. I already predicted it would be late Q3 or Q4 before things returned to some semblance of normality.
 
kaitak
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Mon May 17, 2021 8:17 pm

shadyshamrock wrote:
It's on the news all day no non-essential travel until August at the earliest. There goes summer 21.


So does that mean the UK travel bubble will not come into effect until August as well? I thought that the plan was to get this up and running and then, EU travel would begin in August?

Won't this simply send people flocking to fly out of NI?
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Mon May 17, 2021 9:22 pm

kaitak wrote:
Won't this simply send people flocking to fly out of NI?


That horse has already bolted. People are going both directions daily either to fly out or landing. The Irish government are obviously turning a blind eye to it as when NI authorities asked the Irish government to prevent lots of Southerners heading North this was ignored. The Irish government decided to open all Ireland travel the only problem with that is the Irish government have shot themselves in the foot. Once you cross the border into the United Kingdom you are under their rules and the Domestic UK travel rules. So it is perfectly legal for anyone from the ROI to fly BHD-XXX
the same as a resident of the UK. The Irish government can request that people do not do that but thats like asking people to give up smoking. There is no legal requirement as they have left the jurisdiction. Travel documents are not recorded and you can travel with a basic photo ID if flying BA BHD-LHR for example.

''If you are flying solely within the UK, including Northern Ireland, you do not need a passport but we advise that you carry photographic identification with you when travelling, such as your passport or driving licence. This may be requested at certain points in your journey. Children under the age of 16 years do not require identification to travel within the UK.''

www.britishairways.com/en-gb/informatio ... as-and-api
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Tue May 18, 2021 6:23 am

Ryanair to tap bond markets as it reports €815m loss

www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-a ... 1?mode=amp


Ryanair boss Michael O’Leary blasts Government's ‘woeful’ Covid travel policies

In characteristic form this morning as Ryanair released full-year financial results, Mr O'Leary said Mr Ryan is a "very nice guy, but he's an idiot".

https://m.independent.ie/news/ryanair-b ... 34820.html

MOL certainly wasn't mincing his words when he was talking about Ryan and travel policies yesterday. Although he does see some recovery in certain markets. He also mentioned that they will not get MAX deliveries until the Summer peak is over which is disappointing.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Tue May 18, 2021 10:17 am

OA260 wrote:
kaitak wrote:
Won't this simply send people flocking to fly out of NI?


That horse has already bolted. People are going both directions daily either to fly out or landing. The Irish government are obviously turning a blind eye to it as when NI authorities asked the Irish government to prevent lots of Southerners heading North this was ignored. The Irish government decided to open all Ireland travel the only problem with that is the Irish government have shot themselves in the foot. Once you cross the border into the United Kingdom you are under their rules and the Domestic UK travel rules. So it is perfectly legal for anyone from the ROI to fly BHD-XXX
the same as a resident of the UK. The Irish government can request that people do not do that but thats like asking people to give up smoking. There is no legal requirement as they have left the jurisdiction. Travel documents are not recorded and you can travel with a basic photo ID if flying BA BHD-LHR for example.


Indeed. For LHR-BHD, or any domestic destination with BA you have a good chance of not being asked for ID at all. Not sure about other airlines, or EI specifically.
When arriving into Ireland from NI, if you have been "overseas" you should complete a PLF and have a negative PCR. I'm not sure how that would be policed practically, but thats how it is.
 
kaitak
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Tue May 18, 2021 12:13 pm

Indeed, and a rational, responsible government would recognise this. Sure, they can "come the heavy" and impose large fines, but wouldn't it be better to recognise the reality. At least if they were coming through DUB and didn't have to fly via BFS/BHD/LDY, there would be more control in that all pax would complete PLFs and have their PCR tests done (perhaps even antigen tests, just to annoy Tony!). Coming via NI, there's obviously no control, because people will be sneaking over the border.

Will PCR tests/PLFs still be necessary for pax flying within the CTA bubble (i.e. to the UK)?

Will British airlines accept bookings from Irish passengers flying from UK airports to further afield? I guess this is probably the government's fear - that if they do go ahead with the travel bubble, passengers will then fly from (e.g.) London to somewhere else. That also raises another question, i.e. whether Irish passport holders will be subject to the same rules as UK passengers, in terms of what countries they can visit.

Could authorities say to an Irish passenger, "I'm sorry, but you are in breach of your government's regulations and therefore, we are obliged to return you to your point of origin, at your own expense, and inform the Irish authorities and give you 200 lines" (Ok, maybe not the last bit, but I would imagine that questions such as these are being considered before any travel bubble is opened. It wouldn't surprise me if the CAA ordered British carriers to refuse booking from any Irish residents for travel other than to/from Ireland).
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Tue May 18, 2021 1:10 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
Aer Lingus have suspended* SNN-BOS for the summer, JFK restart pushed out to July 19th. Perhaps some confidence SNN-LHR remains available from June 21st.

DUB-US also pushed out to Jul 19th with SEA suspended*, IAD/YYZ delayed to mid August and September.

* until Oct 31, winter schedule not updated.


Update:

SNN-JFK* DUB-LAX* and YYZ (mid Oct), EWR / IAD (late Aug), MCO (2 Oct) and BOS reduced.

Reported SNN crew base to close…
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Tue May 18, 2021 1:39 pm

SNN base closure confirmed:

Aer Lingus is to permanently close its cabin crew base in Shannon in an effort to reduce costs.

81 cabin crew worked from the base and they will be offered either enhanced severance or where possible transfer to Dublin.

A further 45 ground staff in Shannon will remain laid off.

The airline is also to temporarily close its base at Cork Airport from September until late November.

Currently around 60 ground staff and 138 cabin crew are employed there.

The company said it has also commenced a review of ground handling requirements in both Shannon and Cork airports.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0 ... ngus-cork/
 
KIRFlyer
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Tue May 18, 2021 1:41 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:

Reported SNN crew base to close…


Aer Lingus is to permanently close its cabin crew base in Shannon in an effort to reduce costs.

81 cabin crew worked from the base and they will be offered either enhanced severance or where possible transfer to Dublin.

A further 45 ground staff in Shannon will remain laid off.

More here:
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0 ... ngus-cork/
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Tue May 18, 2021 1:51 pm

No surprise its been the rumor the last while and especially the last few days. Sad day for the staff and even a bigger blow to SNN.
 
KIRFlyer
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Tue May 18, 2021 2:21 pm

I'm assuming this doesn't mean the cessation of EI flights at SNN. BOS, JFK and LHR will be operated in a W pattern via DUB and/or ORK for the LHR flight.
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Tue May 18, 2021 2:54 pm

KIRFlyer wrote:
I'm assuming this doesn't mean the cessation of EI flights at SNN. BOS, JFK and LHR will be operated in a W pattern via DUB and/or ORK for the LHR flight.


Route cuts were not mentioned and pilots are based in DUB already. It was indicated last year that the A320 would be removed LR on early LHR and DUB based on afternoon/evening before it was quickly removed. I would expect it what might happen in 2022 if all routes resume.

They said the base was inefficient and out of line with the market for a significant period of time and there is probally some truth to this. Difficult for staff but hopefully the option to transfer appeals to them.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Tue May 18, 2021 4:29 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
KIRFlyer wrote:
I'm assuming this doesn't mean the cessation of EI flights at SNN. BOS, JFK and LHR will be operated in a W pattern via DUB and/or ORK for the LHR flight.


Route cuts were not mentioned and pilots are based in DUB already.

They said the base was inefficient and out of line with the market for a significant period of time and there is probally some truth to this. Difficult for staff but hopefully the option to transfer appeals to them.


If pilots are already based in DUB, it makes sense for the cabin crew to follow. Hopefully those who want severance will get it and those who want to transfer will get it. That would be a win/win as there are always some who hang on in a job hoping for redundancy.

I was quite frankly surprised there are more crew based in ORK than SNN! I would have thought it was the other way around.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Tue May 18, 2021 4:39 pm

Its a sad day for SNN and the mid-west in general. It looks like EI might be considering going down the third party handling route outside DUB too. I hope that this will encourage the government to act, before irreparable damage is done.

ClassicLover wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
KIRFlyer wrote:
I'm assuming this doesn't mean the cessation of EI flights at SNN. BOS, JFK and LHR will be operated in a W pattern via DUB and/or ORK for the LHR flight.


Route cuts were not mentioned and pilots are based in DUB already.

They said the base was inefficient and out of line with the market for a significant period of time and there is probally some truth to this. Difficult for staff but hopefully the option to transfer appeals to them.


If pilots are already based in DUB, it makes sense for the cabin crew to follow. Hopefully those who want severance will get it and those who want to transfer will get it. That would be a win/win as there are always some who hang on in a job hoping for redundancy.

I was quite frankly surprised there are more crew based in ORK than SNN! I would have thought it was the other way around.


I guess SNN has been a 3 aircraft base for quite a while, 2 of which only did one flight a day, the other 3 LHR rotations, so it would make sense to be smaller. ORK is 3/4 A320s. In truth, I think there is quite a lot of deadheading between the base depending on requirements. Ryanair tend to be more ruthless with the crew moves and their contracts are a lot more flexible for that too.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Tue May 18, 2021 5:11 pm

Very sad indeed for the SNN-based EI staff. Anyone who was a regular on the SNN-LHR route would have recognised the crew working the flights (and vice versa a lot of the time) due to the relatively small number of crew based there.

As was mentioned above, there was no pilot base at SNN pre-pandemic (even with a sizable summer schedule initially planned for 2020) so I'd be hopeful this is not an indicator of a complete downsizing/withdrawal by EI.
 
EI320
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Tue May 18, 2021 7:25 pm

I’m saddened by the news of the SNN closure. Having been a regular on SNN-LHR in the past, I can say that these crew truly epitomised those traditional EI values - warmth, professionalism, and good humour. These are some of the most experienced and longest-serving crew in EI and it’s sad to think they won’t get the farewell they deserve.

While the transfer option may improve the optics, the reality is that a transfer to DUB won’t be feasible for the vast majority of these crew, particularly if they are expected to fly short-haul.

Alas, I can’t help but feel that EI are being opportunistic here. If SNN returns to being a two (or three) aircraft base in 2022, then it makes sense to maintain a CC base there. However, with the most senior crew on average, the cost metrics for SNN have probably made it an easy target for the new CEO. It would not come as any great surprise if EI have a “rethink” next year and decide to hire on new T&Cs in the same way they had a “re-think” on SNN-LHR once the most expensive ground staff and CC had been laid off. This is what the industry has become, and EI has form in this.
Last edited by EI320 on Tue May 18, 2021 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
EI320
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Tue May 18, 2021 7:42 pm

ClassicLover wrote:

If pilots are already based in DUB, it makes sense for the cabin crew to follow. Hopefully those who want severance will get it and those who want to transfer will get it. That would be a win/win as there are always some who hang on in a job hoping for redundancy.

I was quite frankly surprised there are more crew based in ORK than SNN! I would have thought it was the other way around.


Your post is quite frankly insensitive and needless. I do wonder if you’d speak directly to these crew in a similar manner? Please go ahead and try convincing them that today is a “win-win”.
 
b4thefall
Posts: 124
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Tue May 18, 2021 7:42 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
Aer Lingus have suspended* SNN-BOS for the summer, JFK restart pushed out to July 19th. Perhaps some confidence SNN-LHR remains available from June 21st.

DUB-US also pushed out to Jul 19th with SEA suspended*, IAD/YYZ delayed to mid August and September.

* until Oct 31, winter schedule not updated.


Update:

SNN-JFK* DUB-LAX* and YYZ (mid Oct), EWR / IAD (late Aug), MCO (2 Oct) and BOS reduced.

Reported SNN crew base to close…


Any more info on the MCO route? I'm due to be flying out on 2nd October. Can't find any info on the EI website or anywhere else.
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Tue May 18, 2021 9:43 pm

b4thefall wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
Aer Lingus have suspended* SNN-BOS for the summer, JFK restart pushed out to July 19th. Perhaps some confidence SNN-LHR remains available from June 21st.

DUB-US also pushed out to Jul 19th with SEA suspended*, IAD/YYZ delayed to mid August and September.

* until Oct 31, winter schedule not updated.


Update:

SNN-JFK* DUB-LAX* and YYZ (mid Oct), EWR / IAD (late Aug), MCO (2 Oct) and BOS reduced.

Reported SNN crew base to close…


Any more info on the MCO route? I'm due to be flying out on 2nd October. Can't find any info on the EI website or anywhere else.


The flight on 2nd October is scheduled to operate, flights up to 1 October have been axed.

BrianDromey wrote:
Its a sad day for SNN and the mid-west in general. It looks like EI might be considering going down the third party handling route outside DUB too. I hope that this will encourage the government to act, before irreparable damage is done.


Its not the first time ground handling has come up. They might view this as the only opportunity to drive the change they want.

Eamon Ryan is meeting Lynne Embleton tomorrow to discuss the developments.
 
b4thefall
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed May 04, 2016 7:12 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Tue May 18, 2021 10:42 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
b4thefall wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:

Update:

SNN-JFK* DUB-LAX* and YYZ (mid Oct), EWR / IAD (late Aug), MCO (2 Oct) and BOS reduced.

Reported SNN crew base to close…


Any more info on the MCO route? I'm due to be flying out on 2nd October. Can't find any info on the EI website or anywhere else.


The flight on 2nd October is scheduled to operate, flights up to 1 October have been axed.

BrianDromey wrote:
Its a sad day for SNN and the mid-west in general. It looks like EI might be considering going down the third party handling route outside DUB too. I hope that this will encourage the government to act, before irreparable damage is done.


Its not the first time ground handling has come up. They might view this as the only opportunity to drive the change they want.

Eamon Ryan is meeting Lynne Embleton tomorrow to discuss the developments.



Yikes... Doesn't give much leeway. Booked Orlando holiday in December 2020. Sincerely hoped things would have settled by October 2021.
 
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OA260
Posts: 25661
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 6:46 am

More calls for urgent aviation plan for Ireland as airlines continue to axe staff and routes.

Aer Lingus cuts highlight urgent need for a restart plan for Irish aviation

www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-a ... 4?mode=amp



Report says that airlines and passengers could loose
€48 million if the crosswind runway closed.


Closing ‘crosswind runway’ at Dublin Airport would be costly, says report

www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-a ... 3?mode=amp



A crew member fell ill yesterday and so the flight was diverted to enable medical attention .

Belfast flight 'declaring emergency' diverts to Birmingham Airport

The Stobart Air flight - STK3690 - departed Belfast at 10.43am bound for Exeter in Devon

www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news ... 615276.amp
 
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OA260
Posts: 25661
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 8:29 am

Looks like Aer Lingus have now started to cancel its European network until 18/7 as predicted . No real surprise really.
 
Eirules
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 8:52 am

In practical terms, what are the procedures / implications for someone who lives in ROI flying out of BHD? Are they being subjected to the UK’s travel light system? For example, if coming from an orange country (say MEX-LHR-BHD) are you just connecting as normal in LHR with the formalities then being done on arrival at BHD? How are they implementing home quarantine & the tests after x days in this case?
 
Eagleboy
Posts: 1878
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:29 am

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 9:44 am

JAmie2k9 wrote:
b4thefall wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
..........
..........
Eamon Ryan is meeting Lynne Embleton tomorrow to discuss the developments.

Having listened to him interviewed several times over the last 5 months I’m going to hazard a guess that she will run rings around him using facts and the realities of the situation.
 
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OA260
Posts: 25661
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 9:48 am

Eirules wrote:
In practical terms, what are the procedures / implications for someone who lives in ROI flying out of BHD? Are they being subjected to the UK’s travel light system? For example, if coming from an orange country (say MEX-LHR-BHD) are you just connecting as normal in LHR with the formalities then being done on arrival at BHD? How are they implementing home quarantine & the tests after x days in this case?


Immigration is not a devolved matter so anyone entering the United Kingdom are processed at LHR and documents and forms checked before going on to the Domestic part of the journey ie: LHR - BHD. Passengers would be dealt with as if they are ending their journey in NI even if they are crossing the land border into the ROI. It is for the passenger to voluntarily fill out a Irish PLF and quarantine once they are in the ROI. Its just the way the CTA is set up and an issue that has arisen by the two governments determined to keep the UK-ROI land border an open one. So on a MEX - LHR - BHD you comply with British law.
 
Eirules
Posts: 2046
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 10:10 am

OA260 wrote:
Eirules wrote:
In practical terms, what are the procedures / implications for someone who lives in ROI flying out of BHD? Are they being subjected to the UK’s travel light system? For example, if coming from an orange country (say MEX-LHR-BHD) are you just connecting as normal in LHR with the formalities then being done on arrival at BHD? How are they implementing home quarantine & the tests after x days in this case?


Immigration is not a devolved matter so anyone entering the United Kingdom are processed at LHR and documents and forms checked before going on to the Domestic part of the journey ie: LHR - BHD. Passengers would be dealt with as if they are ending their journey in NI even if they are crossing the land border into the ROI. It is for the passenger to voluntarily fill out a Irish PLF and quarantine once they are in the ROI. Its just the way the CTA is set up and an issue that has arisen by the two governments determined to keep the UK-ROI land border an open one. So on a MEX - LHR - BHD you comply with British law.


Thanks OA260. So on the example above, where MEX is amber, you’re supposed to home quarantine for 10 days and have your 2 tests (prebooked). But in reality, it’s unlikely anyone from UK govt will follow up the home quarantine? You’re also meant to fill out the Irish PLF but again no one is likely to check. Correct?
 
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OA260
Posts: 25661
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 10:29 am

Eirules wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Eirules wrote:
In practical terms, what are the procedures / implications for someone who lives in ROI flying out of BHD? Are they being subjected to the UK’s travel light system? For example, if coming from an orange country (say MEX-LHR-BHD) are you just connecting as normal in LHR with the formalities then being done on arrival at BHD? How are they implementing home quarantine & the tests after x days in this case?


Immigration is not a devolved matter so anyone entering the United Kingdom are processed at LHR and documents and forms checked before going on to the Domestic part of the journey ie: LHR - BHD. Passengers would be dealt with as if they are ending their journey in NI even if they are crossing the land border into the ROI. It is for the passenger to voluntarily fill out a Irish PLF and quarantine once they are in the ROI. Its just the way the CTA is set up and an issue that has arisen by the two governments determined to keep the UK-ROI land border an open one. So on a MEX - LHR - BHD you comply with British law.


Thanks OA260. So on the example above, where MEX is amber, you’re supposed to home quarantine for 10 days and have your 2 tests (prebooked). But in reality, it’s unlikely anyone from UK govt will follow up the home quarantine? You’re also meant to fill out the Irish PLF but again no one is likely to check. Correct?


It would be advisable to have your 2 PCR tests prebooked in ROI as UK border officials are not unaware of the loopholes. Its at the discretion of UK border force and they can request evidence. The correct thing to do would be to have the PCRs anyway for your own peace of mind and those you intend to come into contact with. If you voluntarily decide to fill out an Irish PLF then that is up to you . The UK have no input into that .

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