Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 5284
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 11:26 am

EI320 wrote:
ClassicLover wrote:

If pilots are already based in DUB, it makes sense for the cabin crew to follow. Hopefully those who want severance will get it and those who want to transfer will get it. That would be a win/win as there are always some who hang on in a job hoping for redundancy.

I was quite frankly surprised there are more crew based in ORK than SNN! I would have thought it was the other way around.


Your post is quite frankly insensitive and needless. I do wonder if you’d speak directly to these crew in a similar manner? Please go ahead and try convincing them that today is a “win-win”.


Having been through three redundancies myself in the past 12 years, I am quite sensitive to people's feelings when it comes to redundancy, so I apologise if my post came across as insensitive as it certainly wasn't meant that way.

However, the fact remains that in my experience, some people are delighted to be offered the chance to get paid out and leave, which is where I was coming from on that. Clearly some people will lose their jobs as they may be unable to transfer to Dublin, and of course I feel for those people. I am just saying that for the others who a) do wish to go or b) can transfer to Dublin, I hope those people get what they want. It would be awful, for example, if everyone wanted to transfer to Dublin and there weren't enough places for them.
 
shadyshamrock
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:54 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 11:48 am

ClassicLover wrote:
EI320 wrote:
ClassicLover wrote:

If pilots are already based in DUB, it makes sense for the cabin crew to follow. Hopefully those who want severance will get it and those who want to transfer will get it. That would be a win/win as there are always some who hang on in a job hoping for redundancy.

I was quite frankly surprised there are more crew based in ORK than SNN! I would have thought it was the other way around.


Your post is quite frankly insensitive and needless. I do wonder if you’d speak directly to these crew in a similar manner? Please go ahead and try convincing them that today is a “win-win”.


Having been through three redundancies myself in the past 12 years, I am quite sensitive to people's feelings when it comes to redundancy, so I apologise if my post came across as insensitive as it certainly wasn't meant that way.

However, the fact remains that in my experience, some people are delighted to be offered the chance to get paid out and leave, which is where I was coming from on that. Clearly some people will lose their jobs as they may be unable to transfer to Dublin, and of course I feel for those people. I am just saying that for the others who a) do wish to go or b) can transfer to Dublin, I hope those people get what they want. It would be awful, for example, if everyone wanted to transfer to Dublin and there weren't enough places for them.


That would be very unlikely to happen. Most of these were senior and it would not be feasible financially and otherwise for them to up and move to Dublin with the cost of living in Dublin among other considerations like leaving elderly parents and uprooting kids in school.
 
Fliplot
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 2:08 pm

Work is mobile! Inflexibility can not ve an excuse going forward. Personally I think it is very short sighted of EI. Unless EI wanted rid of the base and senior staff which has nothing to do with the pandemic.
The level of misinformation is unhelpful but also quite cynical!
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 3:22 pm

Ryanair has been successful in their first steps to get state aid annulled .


Court upholds Ryanair challenge to €4.6bn aid to rivals KLM and TAP

www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-a ... 8?mode=amp
 
Galwayman
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:20 am

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 5:00 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
KIRFlyer wrote:
I'm assuming this doesn't mean the cessation of EI flights at SNN. BOS, JFK and LHR will be operated in a W pattern via DUB and/or ORK for the LHR flight.


Route cuts were not mentioned and pilots are based in DUB already.

They said the base was inefficient and out of line with the market for a significant period of time and there is probally some truth to this. Difficult for staff but hopefully the option to transfer appeals to them.


If pilots are already based in DUB, it makes sense for the cabin crew to follow. Hopefully those who want severance will get it and those who want to transfer will get it. That would be a win/win as there are always some who hang on in a job hoping for redundancy.

I was quite frankly surprised there are more crew based in ORK than SNN! I would have thought it was the other way around.


I had no idea there was even a SNN base for such a ridiclously small number of flights. If people are senior,expensive ,rigid and inflexible they'll get a generous pay out. If they're flexible, keen and ambitious, Dublin's just up the road they can commute like everyone else. My sympathy didn't last long to be honest .....
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2161
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 5:57 pm

Eagleboy wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
b4thefall wrote:

Having listened to him interviewed several times over the last 5 months I’m going to hazard a guess that she will run rings around him using facts and the realities of the situation.


The only news appears to be them confirming no intent to drop routes and will resume but that requires travel/demand to recover. They would never reverse the base closure decision anyway no matter what Ministers would do/offer.

Lets see what is decided next week on travel.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 3116
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 6:31 pm

Galwayman wrote:
I had no idea there was even a SNN base for such a ridiclously small number of flights. If people are senior,expensive ,rigid and inflexible they'll get a generous pay out. If they're flexible, keen and ambitious, Dublin's just up the road they can commute like everyone else. My sympathy didn't last long to be honest .....

Its not all about flights but the amount of crew required to staff them, given rest time requirements and so on.
In all fairness I don’t think “they can commute like everyone else” is a decent reason. AFAIK Aer Lingus bases are staffed on the basis of bids and one would probably have to be relatively senior to be able to be assigned there. Is it really too much to allow employees to put roots in their communities and develop support structures, be close to friends and family? While a lot of jobs can be done remotely, many cannot. Retail, Healthcare, Construction, Aviation are examples. Forget the practicalities of childcare, try driving “just up the road” after a night shift/transatlantic flight. You might change your opinion.
 
Galwayman
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:20 am

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 7:33 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
I had no idea there was even a SNN base for such a ridiclously small number of flights. If people are senior,expensive ,rigid and inflexible they'll get a generous pay out. If they're flexible, keen and ambitious, Dublin's just up the road they can commute like everyone else. My sympathy didn't last long to be honest .....

Its not all about flights but the amount of crew required to staff them, given rest time requirements and so on.
In all fairness I don’t think “they can commute like everyone else” is a decent reason. AFAIK Aer Lingus bases are staffed on the basis of bids and one would probably have to be relatively senior to be able to be assigned there. Is it really too much to allow employees to put roots in their communities and develop support structures, be close to friends and family? While a lot of jobs can be done remotely, many cannot. Retail, Healthcare, Construction, Aviation are examples. Forget the practicalities of childcare, try driving “just up the road” after a night shift/transatlantic flight. You might change your opinion.



I suspect you're right - it's really about expensive seniority issues . United , American airlines are cruicified with entitled seniority staff. BA are only now really getting to grip with their seniority problems . They had it good so long , good for them . But at the end of the day running an airline around senior staff lifestyles hasn't worked anywhere ....Commuting's fine for a lot of cabin crew with bidding systems - just cream off the lucrative trips and leave the hard graft to the junior hires, it's custom and practice for most seniors unfortunately . If it's good enough for EI pilots it's good enough for cabin crew living cheaply on the family farm.
 
Fliplot
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 8:08 pm

Thats a tad insensitive but if the pilots do it why not cabin crew? As it's IALPA I suspect the pilots will have a special arrangement.
Can't compare United and Aer Lingus as United's network would easily permit commuting!

This is EI tidying up legacy loose ends.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 8:54 pm

Plan on easing of measures in June, July due next week

Ireland will need a "very big and attractive incentive package" to get airlines back, he said, but passengers must be allowed to fly again.

www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0519/1 ... vel-virus/

Will be interesting to see whats on offer and how many carriers can be tempted back .
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 5284
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 9:04 pm

OA260 wrote:
Plan on easing of measures in June, July due next week

Ireland will need a "very big and attractive incentive package" to get airlines back, he said, but passengers must be allowed to fly again.

http://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021 ... vel-virus/

Will be interesting to see whats on offer and how many carriers can be tempted back .


It all depends on where people can actually go, and how difficult that is when it comes to testing and so on.

I'm a total advocate of "vaccinated? free travel" which seems to be gradually becoming the thing.

I don't think airlines need an incentive package to come back, what they need is passengers and that's that. They will come back once Irish people can travel and others can travel to Ireland without restrictions. It's the same anywhere.

Though I will agree, Ireland needs to give some PR and reassurances that we're not going to go back to this kind of non-stop lockdown again.
 
shadyshamrock
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:54 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 9:11 pm

Galwayman wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
Galwayman wrote:

If it's good enough for EI pilots it's good enough for cabin crew living cheaply on the family farm.


I'd like to remind you that in the Midwest many/most people are not from a farming background but live in housing estates in towns and are from a working class background. I myself and one of those people. Comments like the one I quoted get under my skin as they've been thrown at me many times when people were also telling me to suck up a terrible salary, a 2 hour commute and sure surely I'd be given a plot of land to build on anyway since you know live 'down the country' and you must be a cute hoor from a farming background! I respect al opinions about this move from EI but nah I don't accept that the way forward in this industry of any other in this country is to have people commuting the length and breadth of the country for poor pay and conditions and if they complain tell them to choke it down and go to the bank of mam and dad if they want to do something terrible entitled like own a house.
 
EI320
Posts: 638
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:00 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 10:28 pm

Some of the comments in this thread are despicable, but entirely surprising. It’s no wonder staff get shafted if this is the prevailing attitude among some.
 
Fliplot
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 10:31 pm

You said anything about poor pay here? If they were poorly paid then EI night not be doing what it is at SNN.

EI has become a bland profit centre. Bland brand, bland crew, bland service and very little spark. Which is, for a long term EI customer, very sad!
 
EI320
Posts: 638
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:00 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 10:43 pm

I don’t disagree about the brand dilution which I think is a mistake, but there are still huge numbers of great crew in EI across all grades. I can’t say I had noticed a deterioration in crew attitude over recent years. While some may not be as polished as their counterparts in LH, AF, LX etc, EI crew bring a uniquely Irish attitude and warmth to the role.
 
Fliplot
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Wed May 19, 2021 10:56 pm

EI used to have pride in their work and the service provided. Now it's just a job. And when thry get rid of the remaining older legacy staff you will notice the difference. Standards have slipped. And I am not comparing them to LH, AF or LX! I am comparing them to past EI staff and services
 
Eirules
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Thu May 20, 2021 8:28 am

The crocodile tears from some people on here is unbelievable. What did people expect was going to be the outcome of MHQ? Aer Lingus have been bleeding money for over a year and whilst other airlines in Europe are seeing strong summer bookings as their governments announce the reopening of tourism, ours extends the emergency laws until November. Despite knowing infinitely more about the virus, despite vaccination, despite 3 lockdowns, Ireland is facing into a worse summer than the previous one & far too many people stood by and applauded the archaic actions but now cry foul when the inevitable has happened. And this forum is just a microcosm of society. Labour & SF screaming for MHQ, now up in arms against the SNN job losses. The treatment of those working in tourism & aviation has been shameful
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Thu May 20, 2021 8:47 am

Eirules wrote:
The crocodile tears from some people on here is unbelievable. What did people expect was going to be the outcome of MHQ? Aer Lingus have been bleeding money for over a year and whilst other airlines in Europe are seeing strong summer bookings as their governments announce the reopening of tourism, ours extends the emergency laws until November. Despite knowing infinitely more about the virus, despite vaccination, despite 3 lockdowns, Ireland is facing into a worse summer than the previous one & far too many people stood by and applauded the archaic actions but now cry foul when the inevitable has happened. And this forum is just a microcosm of society. Labour & SF screaming for MHQ, now up in arms against the SNN job losses. The treatment of those working in tourism & aviation has been shameful


Spot on that is a perfect description of the situation and pretty much predictable.Even some medical professionals are saying it. Now we are seeing reports that the Indian variant is not as dangerous as was first touted. Im sure next week it will be the Galway variant and be up there with Ebola ;)

Time to sensibly open up to CTA travel and then with the usual precautions and rules open up European travel. The budget in October is going to be payback time and we will see the same people whining again because they have to dig deep. Better for the Irish government to have control over a managed opening up then to have its citizens break for the border and boost the NI coffers. Ireland sadly is the poor man of Europe now when it comes to Aviation and connectivity according to the stats. We have already heard that Aer Lingus will be a much smaller outfit when it does restart operations again.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Thu May 20, 2021 9:03 am

IAG / Aer Lingus may have actually done us all a favor by their SNN moves as it has really turned the heat up on the government who will now have to be held to account over their decisions both previously and going forward.


Aviation has been in crisis for over a year. We’ve seen the passenger figures plummet to 1960s levels and heard the repeated warnings from industry figures, and pleas for the Transport Minister to act.

But political responsibility for dealing with the crisis has now landed firmly at the doorstep of the Taoiseach after Aer Lingus’s decision this week to temporarily close its base at Cork Airport, located in the heart of his own constituency.

www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentan ... l?type=amp
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 3116
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Thu May 20, 2021 10:02 am

OA260 wrote:
IAG / Aer Lingus may have actually done us all a favor by their SNN moves as it has really turned the heat up on the government who will now have to be held to account over their decisions both previously and going forward.


The thought has crossed my mind. Im sure EI have had the smaller, relatively senior bases and ground handling on their cost radar for quite some time. The pandemic is a good cover and the SNN hot potato always put a lot of political pressure on Leinster House. I note that EI haven't mentioned cutting any routes permanently just yet, I cant help but wonder if thats going to be held in reserve.

From reports this morning it seems that the EU will actually open to travel far before the UK, who seem to have no appetite to extend the Green List. Im not sure if its the slightly Xenophobic UK media blaming the "Johnny Foreigner" Indian variant, or the UK Government looking for a fig leaf for lockdown measures being extended beyond the 21st of June . There might be a bit of quid pro quo going on here from the EU and UK sides. Given the vaccination rates and case rates in the UK (22 per 100,000) it should be on the white list. None of this uncertainty is good for the travel industry and even when the EU white list is published, will Dublin sign up?
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Thu May 20, 2021 10:34 am

BrianDromey wrote:
None of this uncertainty is good for the travel industry and even when the EU white list is published, will Dublin sign up?


The devil is in the detail and if you read the small print of the EU scheme member states can still impose their own rules and quarantine rules so already it is not the free for all EU wide travel permit that some have been reporting. Spain and Greece may open their doors but Ireland may keep theirs closed or still require 10-14 days quarantine on return even for fully vaccinated. We shall see what happens next week. Even if Ireland had 2-3 sun destination countries on the Green list it would be better then nothing. Portugal and the Canaries would be of benefit to a lot of Irish.

--

On another note a storm is currently over Ireland. Some trees down already but looking at FR24 there does not seem to be too much disruption to the limited flights coming in.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 3116
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Thu May 20, 2021 1:18 pm

Some good news BHD-GLA appears to be on sale twice weekly, operated by Stobart.
EI3660 BHD 0700 GLA 0745
EI3668 BHD 1900 GLA 1945

EI3661 GLA 0815 BHD 0905
EI3669 GLA2015 BHD 2105

Is there any news on what will happen once Emerald take over the Regional franchise? Will Stobart simply give up all of the routes?

OA260 wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
None of this uncertainty is good for the travel industry and even when the EU white list is published, will Dublin sign up?


The devil is in the detail and if you read the small print of the EU scheme member states can still impose their own rules and quarantine rules so already it is not the free for all EU wide travel permit that some have been reporting.

Thats exactly what I mean, while there might be a framework, countries would be free to deviate from them. As some posters mentioned upthread the land border with NI does introduce loopholes unless entry into the CTA is standardised. Ireland not being a Schengen member has even more flexibility in this regard. Practically and logically this makes sense. A CTA "bio-bubble" is the obvious way forward to prevent loopholes. It makes complete sense that travellers complete their customs, immigration and quarantine requirements at the first point of entry to the CTA wether that's ROI, NI, London or Douglas.
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2161
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Thu May 20, 2021 1:35 pm

Aer Lingus have reopened SNN-BOS & JFK reservations from September 13th.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Thu May 20, 2021 1:43 pm

Looks like the USA routes are further being suspended until 18th July. DUB-YYZ the same.
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2161
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Thu May 20, 2021 1:49 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
OA260 wrote:
IAG / Aer Lingus may have actually done us all a favor by their SNN moves as it has really turned the heat up on the government who will now have to be held to account over their decisions both previously and going forward.


The thought has crossed my mind. Im sure EI have had the smaller, relatively senior bases and ground handling on their cost radar for quite some time. The pandemic is a good cover and the SNN hot potato always put a lot of political pressure on Leinster House. I note that EI haven't mentioned cutting any routes permanently just yet, I cant help but wonder if thats going to be held in reserve.

From reports this morning it seems that the EU will actually open to travel far before the UK, who seem to have no appetite to extend the Green List. Im not sure if its the slightly Xenophobic UK media blaming the "Johnny Foreigner" Indian variant, or the UK Government looking for a fig leaf for lockdown measures being extended beyond the 21st of June . There might be a bit of quid pro quo going on here from the EU and UK sides. Given the vaccination rates and case rates in the UK (22 per 100,000) it should be on the white list. None of this uncertainty is good for the travel industry and even when the EU white list is published, will Dublin sign up?


They have possibly unintentionally created the narrative the routes are dropped as that's how the announcement has been picked up by the media and wider public.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Thu May 20, 2021 2:50 pm

Aer Lingus flights starting to be removed from the schedules for sale. A number of SNN-EDI / SNN-BHX from 31st October .
Reductions on ORK-MAN /BHX / BRS / GLA for the Winter season it will be interesting to see what is showing after November when the runway opens again.
ORK - ACE for July August September. Among other reductions and cuts. ORK - DBV for July and August.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Thu May 20, 2021 9:51 pm

At least the Beluga was able to take advantage of the storm earlier today at SNN .


Beluga plane takes flight over Clare for wind training


Image


www.rte.ie/news/munster/2021/0520/12229 ... e-shannon/
 
User avatar
shamrock350
Posts: 5549
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 21, 2021 9:57 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
This may suddenly look less appealing to Ireland’s ever cautious government now that the new variant first seen in India is raising concerns in the UK.


As I was saying...

“ NEW: Hopes of a 'travel bubble' with Britain have been ruled out this evening.

Even though Northern Ireland residents have free travel anywhere within the CTA from Monday, Stephen Donnelly tells @VirginMediaNews Britain's surge of the 'Indian variant' rules out travel for now”

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/13 ... 31434?s=21

With a government so easily spooked, this unfortunately comes as no surprise.

There’s been some conflicting info surrounding this new variant, particularly concerning its transmissibility which now looks less of a problem than originally feared and most importantly, it seems the vaccines are still effective against it.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 21, 2021 10:14 pm

Being reported on other news networks tonight that July will see a CTA travel bubble and then end August travel allowed to EU.

We will all have to see next week. In the meantime Aer Lingus today removed from sale DUB - ACE for rest of May and most of June . Up until now it had run a limited service since last March. When that route gets pulled you know things are bad.
 
Vicenza
Posts: 395
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:21 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 21, 2021 10:26 pm

Galwayman wrote:
If it's good enough for EI pilots it's good enough for cabin crew living cheaply on the family farm.


Why, are EI pilots a special, or superior breed or something to you?
 
Fliplot
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 22, 2021 12:00 am

Its a unusual comment but without merit. There is a world of a difference between cabin crew and pilots arrangements in EI, including at SNN.
 
kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 10092
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 22, 2021 6:23 am

OA260 wrote:
Being reported on other news networks tonight that July will see a CTA travel bubble and then end August travel allowed to EU.

We will all have to see next week. In the meantime Aer Lingus today removed from sale DUB - ACE for rest of May and most of June . Up until now it had run a limited service since last March. When that route gets pulled you know things are bad.


The WHO has said today that existing vaccines are effective against the "Indian variant" of Covid. It is probably likely that the government announcement, expected on Tuesday, will disappoint more people than it pleases, but I would expect that for those who can produce evidence of vaccination, there is likely to be significantly greater freedom. It is likely to be a huge boost to airlines. An opening of UK routes would be a huge boost to the likes of Stobart (not to mention EI/BA) and would probably also see Loganair come back and Eastern/Blue Islands start routes.

Does anyone know if there are any figures about people travelling via NI? I've seen very little about this. No warnings, for example; are the gardai checking cars/trains going north?

Also, is there any information as to how cumbersome the process around applying for the digital green cert will be? I've heard the people will get a QR code, so presumably it can be done online - and quickly. Will the cards being provided at the time of vaccination have any effect as proof, in the period before the green certs go live?
----------------------------------------------

In other news, FR has won a challenge to state aid for KL and TP.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/103840
 
smh747
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:58 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 22, 2021 7:47 am

Fliplot wrote:
You said anything about poor pay here? If they were poorly paid then EI night not be doing what it is at SNN.

EI has become a bland profit centre. Bland brand, bland crew, bland service and very little spark. Which is, for a long term EI customer, very sad!


Agree completely. Aer Lingus has disimproved in every way since being acquired by IAG. Now more like BA which is poor by any standard.
 
kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 10092
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 22, 2021 7:52 am

I have to disagree with some aspects of that. True, the new livery is a bit "samey", but in my experience, EI is a better carrier than it has ever been. The crews are always very nice; there is (in my experience) a professional and pleasant feel to every aspect of the EI experience, from booking, to check in, to flight. Compared to other carriers on most routes, I would still choose EI.

Morale will be an issue in the aftermath of what has been happening, espcially with further cuts on the way; I hope the new CEO, Ms. Embleton, will be focusing some attention on that. There's nothing very badly wrong with EI that can't be put right with a little attention.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 22, 2021 9:47 am

Agree no point blaming IAG for reacting to the situation forced onto them by the governments rules and laws. If Aer Lingus was still state controlled it would be just the small operation it was back in the 90s'. People forget the industrial action that plagued Aer Lingus grounding the flights for days and was at one point second only to Air France ! The basic USA route network compared to now ( pre Covid ) and the relaunch of the FF program which while currently is no where near IB BA in terms of being in OW the AVIOS scheme has opened the program up to thousands more through the ability to earn without flying and spend on flying AVIOS partners. Gold Circle was a joke when IAG took over and they turned it into something actually beneficial.

The brand refresh was badly needed to bring the airline in line with the International players it seeks to be compared to and while the old livery was unique when you see them side by side at DUB now it really shows how dated it was. IAG were doing a great job and thank god they got it to the strong company it was pre Covid so it is well placed to recover over the next few years. Under state control we would all be paying to save the airline from shut down. The state cant even run a health service as we have seen in the last week which was all down to underinvestment and doing things on a wing and a prayer! No Id rather IAG keep doing what they have done since they took over and run it properly with realistic goals and thinking of the future rather then just ticking along. The state has enough mess to clean up and to think that we entrust them to roll out the EU Digital Travel scheme. One wonders how safe our data will actually be.

It certainly is fun to look back at the good old days when the B747 graced the skies and when you got free hot meals in Y on a DUB-LHR but time has moved on and so with it has the need for Aer Lingus to be more professionally run to survive. You cant blame IAG for running a strong sustainable operation which by the way benefits the whole country via investment and tourism. In normal times Im onboard Aer Lingus flights more then most and I rarely have issues. They are generally friendly , reliable and comfortable.
 
Fliplot
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 22, 2021 11:31 am

Thank God we have the Government to blame for everything! Why? We won't agree on EI and thats fine. But the constant scaremongering is not helpful. The Irish have travelled for hundreds of years and will do so again Ireland remains an attractive destination for visitors. So what if EI is smaller after covid? It will be a base to grow from.
I don't believe there will be an issue with conectivity and if it's not EI (though I hope it will be) then other carriers will take up the slack
The next few months will be interesting!
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 22, 2021 1:26 pm

Time to approach O’Leary to make Shannon Airport Ryanair’s European hub

In the aftermath of Aer Lingus’ decision to close their base at Shannon Airport, an Ennis representative has said efforts need to be directed towards Ryanair.

www.clareecho.ie/time-to-approach-olear ... opean-hub/


There would probably need to be some good incentives for MOL to consider such a move.
 
Fliplot
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 22, 2021 2:22 pm

The incentive for FR is money! But when the incentive stops so does FR. Remember they have been in SNN before. Skynet, Virgin Express, Eujet, Cityjet, even Ryanair failed at SNN. Is that not telling us that SNN is destined for very limited services?
As a long shot I expect EI to be running twice daily flights to JFK/BOS from DUB, with one of the flights doing a SNN stop! How ironic.
 
User avatar
shamrock350
Posts: 5549
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 22, 2021 3:40 pm

No surprise to see the usual suspects in Shannon’s media and political sphere suggesting Ryanair as some kind of knight in shining armour. This happens every time Aer Lingus’ future at the airport is in doubt. A quick look at Ryanair’s relationship with Shannon over the years will tell them it’s been far from smooth sailing.

That’s before we even get into the fact that Aer Lingus hasn’t actually pulled any flights, at least not permanently, not that Ryanair would or could replace too many of them even if they did.
 
Fliplot
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 22, 2021 4:10 pm

Anyone know if the runway upgrade at CRK includes runway lengthening? It would be the perfect opportunity to add capacity to CRK.
 
Fliplot
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 22, 2021 4:14 pm

True EI have not yet pulled the flights but with no crew base and no aircraft it will be intetesting to see how the routes will be operated.

A true guessing game!
 
Vicenza
Posts: 395
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:21 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 22, 2021 7:23 pm

OA260 wrote:
The state cant even run a health service as we have seen in the last week which was all down to underinvestment and doing things on a wing and a prayer! No Id rather IAG keep doing what they have done since they took over and run it properly with realistic goals and thinking of the future rather then just ticking along. The state has enough mess to clean up and to think that we entrust them to roll out the EU Digital Travel scheme. One wonders how safe our data will actually be.


With all due respect OA260, running a health service is a a very, very different thing entirely from running an airline and not really a commendable comparison at all.

OA260 wrote:
It certainly is fun to look back at the good old days when the B747 graced the skies and when you got free hot meals in Y on a DUB-LHR but time has moved on and so with it has the need for Aer Lingus to be more professionally run to survive. You cant blame IAG for running a strong sustainable operation which by the way benefits the whole country via investment and tourism. In normal times Im onboard Aer Lingus flights more then most and I rarely have issues. They are generally friendly , reliable and comfortable.


Yes, a sustainable operation, but one which is fully designed to primarily, and solely, benefit IAG.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 22, 2021 7:49 pm

Vicenza wrote:
OA260 wrote:
The state cant even run a health service as we have seen in the last week which was all down to underinvestment and doing things on a wing and a prayer! No Id rather IAG keep doing what they have done since they took over and run it properly with realistic goals and thinking of the future rather then just ticking along. The state has enough mess to clean up and to think that we entrust them to roll out the EU Digital Travel scheme. One wonders how safe our data will actually be.


With all due respect OA260, running a health service is a a very, very different thing entirely from running an airline and not really a commendable comparison at all.


Well running both organisations need professionalism , reliability and trust so quite comparable if not the same industry. I reiterate I would not trust the state to run Aer Lingus and not to interfere and plant their own cronies into management as they previously did. The HSE is a big part of how we intend to get travel up and running again as this is a health pandemic that has grounded the Irish Aviation industry and we are entrusting the same car crash organisation to store our personal data for our EU digital certificates to enable us to fly . So forgive me if Im a tad concerned after recent events.
 
Fliplot
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 22, 2021 8:22 pm

But the HSE didnt crash did it? They were professionally and criminally hacked and some data maybe lost it's a shame but it's not fatal.

My guess is EI would have a similar problem. Its system is home grown and I believe is not compatable with any other airline systems. This was noted as one of the major costs should EI join OneWorld.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 22, 2021 8:27 pm

An interesting read about the personal challenges of Aviation professionals during the crisis .


Up in the air: Pilots grounded by Covid-19 face a turbulent future

Alice Farrell, an Aer Lingus first officer, a co-pilot, has flown just twice this year: from Dublin to Chicago on New Year’s Day and, on May 6th, from Dublin to Munich and on to South Carolina.

www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/peopl ... 8?mode=amp
 
Fliplot
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 22, 2021 9:18 pm

I assume that means Alice remains cyrrent with her licence requirements? I also assume EI is rotating crew to ensure where possible licences remain current. Cant be an easy challenge but would mean available crew when upturn occurs.
Anyone any thoughts?
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sat May 22, 2021 9:54 pm

The Week in Politics tomorrow will discuss Irish Aviation and hear from representatives from the industry .
12 noon RTE 1.
 
User avatar
shamrock350
Posts: 5549
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 23, 2021 1:11 am

Fliplot wrote:
My guess is EI would have a similar problem. Its system is home grown and I believe is not compatable with any other airline systems. This was noted as one of the major costs should EI join OneWorld.


The Aer Lingus system being of a certain age may actually work in its favour in terms of reliability and security, it's probably been customised and patched so much over the years it resembles a rickety old fortress, not pretty to look at but still sturdy. It's never had a major outage or data breach, like BA for example.
 
Fliplot
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 23, 2021 1:15 am

Fair point. You could be correct!
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 23, 2021 9:18 am

Some positive news for SNN . At least it will give them some sort of connectivity.


The Clare Echo has learned that Ryanair will reopen its base at Shannon Airport on June 1st with seven routes making it the first on the West of Ireland to reopen.

Services to London Stansted (4 per week), London Gatwick (2), Barcelona-Reus (2), Warsaw-Modlin (2), Wroclaw (2), Krakow (2) and Kaunas (2) are all planned to resume from next month.

www.clareecho.ie/ryanair-to-resume-shan ... perations/

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos