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EI320
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:00 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 28, 2021 12:17 pm

I agree, but the deterrent effect is huge and effectively wipes out demand. The obvious loophole is to travel through NI - but this is of little help to aviation in the ROI naturally.
 
Eirules
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 28, 2021 12:20 pm

EI320 wrote:
I agree, but the deterrent effect is huge and effectively wipes out demand. The obvious loophole is to travel through NI - but this is of little help to aviation in the ROI naturally.


Agreed. Makes a nonsense of the whole thing
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 3116
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 28, 2021 12:27 pm

EI320 wrote:
I agree, but the deterrent effect is huge and effectively wipes out demand. The obvious loophole is to travel through NI - but this is of little help to aviation in the ROI naturally.


Indeed, it does nothing for aviation south of the border. Given the fares being charged out of BHD on Sunday evenings to London, there is clearly some demand for flights, although lets not kid ourselves, there aren't millions travelling across the border. Frequencies and capacity are well down on 2019.
On Sunday evenings in June BA are running an A319 to LHR and E90 to LCY, the last EI is around 1730, so it's not massive demand.

The border will be an issue for many years to come, either drawn on land or in the Irish Sea. Given the speed and lack of notice that France, Germany and Austria put UK arrivals on their red lists, I can see why Leinster House feel they have enough political cover not to open the CTA a second earlier than they have to, which appears to be with the wider opening.
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 28, 2021 1:19 pm

Unlike EU countries moving the goal posts every few days Ireland has remained closed. Not perfect but consistent. Glad to see that some on here recognise that travel via NI breaks the rules. Will be nice to see what is actually announced this afternoon and where it deviates from the speculation!!!
 
Eirules
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 28, 2021 1:44 pm

Fliplot wrote:
Unlike EU countries moving the goal posts every few days Ireland has remained closed. Not perfect but consistent. Glad to see that some on here recognise that travel via NI breaks the rules. Will be nice to see what is actually announced this afternoon and where it deviates from the speculation!!!


But it’s not closed. MHQ is in place for some EU countries but not others and with apparently little basis on case numbers. There’s a completely porous border to NI allowing complete free movement within UK & ROI. Numerous exemptions have been announced since January such as “elite” sportspeople coming back into the country & those leaving for “medical reasons”. Australia is closed, Ireland most certainly is not
 
shadyshamrock
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Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:54 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 28, 2021 2:27 pm

Have the US agreed to open to us too? Phone blowing up with the lads wanting to rebook a trip we had cancelled to the National Parks of the PNW in August. Will wait for the announcement for I'm still confused whether this has been agreed by the US?
 
Eirules
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 28, 2021 2:30 pm

shadyshamrock wrote:
Have the US agreed to open to us too? Phone blowing up with the lads wanting to rebook a trip we had cancelled to the National Parks of the PNW in August. Will wait for the announcement for I'm still confused whether this has been agreed by the US?


No. You still cannot apply for an ESTA for USA if you’ve been in Ireland, UK or Schengen for previous 14 days. The US authorities haven’t given any indication (despite all the rumours) that this will change)
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 28, 2021 3:09 pm

Fliplot wrote:
Unlike EU countries moving the goal posts every few days Ireland has remained closed. Not perfect but consistent. Glad to see that some on here recognise that travel via NI breaks the rules. Will be nice to see what is actually announced this afternoon and where it deviates from the speculation!!!


It actually does not break the rules otherwise they would put Gards on the border . Its simply a request not to travel because the Republic of Ireland has only got jurisdiction over 26 counties and have no enforcement power over the British part of Ireland . Once you cross into the United Kingdom you are under their rules. Thats like saying you are going to Rome but still under Irish law! As has been stated before the Republic of Ireland were requested to stop an influx of Southerners from going into NI but the Irish government rejected that request so they know full well that implication. The Irish government cant have their cake and eat it ;)
 
Fliplot
Posts: 590
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 28, 2021 3:11 pm

Australia remains open to its own citizens so not entirely closed either. Did a recent Qantas repatriation flight from India not have a 50% infection rate? They also have a travel corridor with New Zealand.
Perhaps the Irish Government is playing safe and waiting to see how the UK gets on with the Indian covid variant. Whuch makes good sense to me.
 
EIBusiness
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:47 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 28, 2021 4:01 pm

Eirules wrote:
shadyshamrock wrote:
Have the US agreed to open to us too? Phone blowing up with the lads wanting to rebook a trip we had cancelled to the National Parks of the PNW in August. Will wait for the announcement for I'm still confused whether this has been agreed by the US?


No. You still cannot apply for an ESTA for USA if you’ve been in Ireland, UK or Schengen for previous 14 days. The US authorities haven’t given any indication (despite all the rumours) that this will change)


Alejandro Mayorkas indicated during this week that it is highly likely that when the travel ban from Europe to the USA is eased/removed - first out of the traps will be the United Kingdom and Ireland. Although not yet removed - there are strong indications and chatter in immigration attorney circles that the ban will be lifted for those who are fully vaccinated from the middle to end of June 2021 onwards. Any movement is likely to be in tandem with changes to land border restrictions with Canada and Mexico.

As an aside - I hope those National Parks are taking in Yellowstone, Grand Teton etc. Those in the PNW are nice.... But those in the Intermountain West are truly spectacular!

EIBusiness
 
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ClassicLover
Posts: 5284
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 28, 2021 5:12 pm

Fliplot wrote:
Australia remains open to its own citizens so not entirely closed either. Did a recent Qantas repatriation flight from India not have a 50% infection rate? They also have a travel corridor with New Zealand.
Perhaps the Irish Government is playing safe and waiting to see how the UK gets on with the Indian covid variant. Whuch makes good sense to me.


Australia remains open to its own citizens, certainly, but every single one has to go into mandatory hotel quarantine that you need to pay €1,900 for (at today's exchange rate). Also, the big kicker is the arrivals caps, which means flights are restricted to 30-50 passengers per flight. Literally only business class and however many other economy passengers can fit on the plane are being carried. It's really quite bad. Tens of thousands of Australians are stranded abroad because they cannot get a flight back. I'd hardly point to Australia as doing a good job in this regard.
 
EIBusiness
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:47 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 28, 2021 5:51 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
Fliplot wrote:
Australia remains open to its own citizens so not entirely closed either. Did a recent Qantas repatriation flight from India not have a 50% infection rate? They also have a travel corridor with New Zealand.
Perhaps the Irish Government is playing safe and waiting to see how the UK gets on with the Indian covid variant. Whuch makes good sense to me.


Australia remains open to its own citizens, certainly, but every single one has to go into mandatory hotel quarantine that you need to pay €1,900 for (at today's exchange rate). Also, the big kicker is the arrivals caps, which means flights are restricted to 30-50 passengers per flight. Literally only business class and however many other economy passengers can fit on the plane are being carried. It's really quite bad. Tens of thousands of Australians are stranded abroad because they cannot get a flight back. I'd hardly point to Australia as doing a good job in this regard.


Those countries who adopted a "Zero COVID" strategy are the ones who, despite initially being lauded, are now terribly behind on vaccination metrics including New Zealand and Australia and will ultimately suffer a longer period of economic contraction and related impacts as a result of this.

For the first time in ~18 months there is reasonable cause for optimism in Ireland. The vaccination program is moving ahead full throttle and indeed the average rate of first dose vaccination in Ireland now exceeds that of several states in the United States where even with vaccination levels far from "herd immunity" cases continue to drop precipitously. The same will happen in Ireland provided variants don't throw in a wild card.

Here in the USA - there is tremendous evidence for pent up demand for domestic air travel with leisure travel now reaching levels exceeding those experienced before the COVID-19 crisis. Business travel is yet to return - but given the tremendous Transatlantic business links between Ireland and the USA - I think we will see reasonably full Transatlantic flights once restrictions are eased on both sides of the Atlantic. Of the last 10 domestic flights I've taken in the USA - over half of them have been almost full or full. This doesn't equate to yield per se - but ticket prices for domestic travel are in many cases at or above pre-pandemic levels.

If Ireland can continue upon the current vaccination path - with full adoption of the European COVID Certificate and a restoration of Transatlantic travel - things can and will get better. The government should embark on an extremely large pro-growth strategy with extensive supports to lure back airlines and routes to Ireland - this will be critical in securing a post COVID-19 recovery.

There is no doubt that the world is forever changed, many regions are still being ravaged with this terrible disease - but for Ireland, Irish Aviation and those employed in or depending upon the sector there are today solid reasons for hope and optimism.

EIBusiness
 
shadyshamrock
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:54 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 28, 2021 6:37 pm

EIBusiness wrote:
Eirules wrote:
shadyshamrock wrote:
Have the US agreed to open to us too? Phone blowing up with the lads wanting to rebook a trip we had cancelled to the National Parks of the PNW in August. Will wait for the announcement for I'm still confused whether this has been agreed by the US?


No. You still cannot apply for an ESTA for USA if you’ve been in Ireland, UK or Schengen for previous 14 days. The US authorities haven’t given any indication (despite all the rumours) that this will change)


Alejandro Mayorkas indicated during this week that it is highly likely that when the travel ban from Europe to the USA is eased/removed - first out of the traps will be the United Kingdom and Ireland. Although not yet removed - there are strong indications and chatter in immigration attorney circles that the ban will be lifted for those who are fully vaccinated from the middle to end of June 2021 onwards. Any movement is likely to be in tandem with changes to land border restrictions with Canada and Mexico.

As an aside - I hope those National Parks are taking in Yellowstone, Grand Teton etc. Those in the PNW are nice.... But those in the Intermountain West are truly spectacular!

EIBusiness


Have done those ones before so just Washington and Oregon this time but not ready to re-book the flights yet based on what I heard tonight until the US confirm they will let us in and what their requirements are.
 
Eirules
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 28, 2021 7:03 pm

EIBusiness wrote:
Eirules wrote:
shadyshamrock wrote:
Have the US agreed to open to us too? Phone blowing up with the lads wanting to rebook a trip we had cancelled to the National Parks of the PNW in August. Will wait for the announcement for I'm still confused whether this has been agreed by the US?


No. You still cannot apply for an ESTA for USA if you’ve been in Ireland, UK or Schengen for previous 14 days. The US authorities haven’t given any indication (despite all the rumours) that this will change)


Alejandro Mayorkas indicated during this week that it is highly likely that when the travel ban from Europe to the USA is eased/removed - first out of the traps will be the United Kingdom and Ireland. Although not yet removed - there are strong indications and chatter in immigration attorney circles that the ban will be lifted for those who are fully vaccinated from the middle to end of June 2021 onwards. Any movement is likely to be in tandem with changes to land border restrictions with Canada and Mexico.

As an aside - I hope those National Parks are taking in Yellowstone, Grand Teton etc. Those in the PNW are nice.... But those in the Intermountain West are truly spectacular!

EIBusiness


Fully agree. Yellowstone, the Tetons and some of the towns such as Bozeman & Jackson Hole are fantastic. Highly recommended to anyone who hasn’t been
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Fri May 28, 2021 7:25 pm

Great post by Dublin Airport tonight says it all !


Image
a photo


www.twitter.com/dublinairport
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 30, 2021 8:02 pm

Big changes coming for legacy crew as expected.


New Aer Lingus cuts to target pay of ‘legacy’ airline staff

www.independent.ie/business/new-aer-lin ... 79274.html
 
Fliplot
Posts: 590
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 30, 2021 9:03 pm

Nothing is as expected especially at EI. Now the legacy staff understand the new definition of loyalty. Interesting too the non legacy staff will understand what their future holds for them.i guess we are partly to blame because of our need for cheap fares.

As ai have ssid vefore God bless a crisis. It's amazing what gets cleansed in a crisis aftermath.
 
bennett123
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 30, 2021 10:03 pm

OA260 wrote:
Great post by Dublin Airport tonight says it all !


Image
a photo


http://www.twitter.com/dublinairport


Is Dublin Airport going to police this to ensure that all passengers are VFR.

If not, then this is just another way to protect the bottom line.

If borders are opened and COVID re imported, will Dublin Airport take financial responsibility.

Doubt it somehow.
 
shadyshamrock
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:54 pm

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 30, 2021 10:45 pm

bennett123 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Great post by Dublin Airport tonight says it all !


Image
a photo


http://www.twitter.com/dublinairport


Is Dublin Airport going to police this to ensure that all passengers are VFR.

If not, then this is just another way to protect the bottom line.

If borders are opened and COVID re imported, will Dublin Airport take financial responsibility.

Doubt it somehow.


The government never said passengers have to be VFR on July 19th. By then we will have the majority of the population vaccinated, should we end up right back in square one with covid causing chaos requiring level 5 lockdowns again despite the vaccine then we will have much bigger problems than looking for compo from Dublin airport!
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Sun May 30, 2021 11:07 pm

bennett123 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Great post by Dublin Airport tonight says it all !


Image
a photo


http://www.twitter.com/dublinairport


Is Dublin Airport going to police this to ensure that all passengers are VFR.

If not, then this is just another way to protect the bottom line.

If borders are opened and COVID re imported, will Dublin Airport take financial responsibility.

Doubt it somehow.


Im guessing you missed what the message is here the majority of Irish got it and it struck a cord whatever their opinions on how Ireland has handled the pandemic . This was not a political comment by DUB it represented the hopes of hundreds of thousands of Irish and those who call Ireland home separated from their families .
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Mon May 31, 2021 4:41 am

Anyone know if Emerald has placed an order for aircraft? Then again I have thought it interesting that an investment fund would acquire an airline whoes near entire business dries up in 2022!

Is it not a likely case that EI will rely heavily on the smaller aircraft to shore up future business?
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Mon May 31, 2021 7:12 am

Stobart Air sale to Isle of Man firm in doubt after financing issues

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish ... 80855.html


Seems the sale of Stobart is not a done deal just yet .
 
aerloingeas
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:27 am

Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Mon May 31, 2021 7:36 am

Fliplot wrote:
Anyone know if Emerald has placed an order for aircraft?


The paper airline yet to ever operate a flight is currently seeking to lease 6 x ATR 72-600 (former Virgin Australia metal).
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Mon May 31, 2021 8:02 am

Ryanair Passenger Plane Makes Emergency Landing In Berlin After Bomb Threat

https://cde.news/ryanair-passenger-plan ... mb-threat/
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Mon May 31, 2021 1:42 pm

aerloingeas wrote:
Fliplot wrote:
Anyone know if Emerald has placed an order for aircraft?


The paper airline yet to ever operate a flight is currently seeking to lease 6 x ATR 72-600 (former Virgin Australia metal).


Very interesting, I was curious as to whether they would take some fleet off Stobart or go their own way - glad it's the latter!
 
kaitak
Topic Author
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Re: Irish 5/21: A gap in the storm clouds

Mon May 31, 2021 5:28 pm

Hi folks ... it's that time again.

6/21 is ready to board: masks, hazmat suits, PCR tests, antigen tests, ID - and boarding passes - at the ready:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1461349

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