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tullamarine
Posts: 2791
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 5:56 am

Deano969 wrote:
Ok so a token LCC is one that is started by a legacy carrier to stop a new entrant starting up
Virgin Blue and Impulse (preceded by Compass and East West) kicked off
East West gobbled up by Ansett
Compass 1 + 2 were competed with heavily by AN and QF and failed
Impulse, bought out by QF and morphed the fleet into Jetstar
VB had an inside run when Ansett failed

QF finally realized that LCCs were going to be their greatest threat, Impulse were there for the taking, so rather than compete on price with QF, better to buy them out and start their own LCC, Jetstar, thus warding off and new potential LCC start ups
Jetstars small fleet was mainly on the holiday market, but never really competed with QF and had minimal opps on the triangle
Fast forward to post Covid and JQ started to move their birds to the FIFO market in WA and shrunk their fleet, releasing 717s to the east coast so QF could grow their fleet and move into JQ dominated markets MCY, OOL, NTL ect...
All while deferring NEO replacements for JQ
In a nutshell, aside from REX, no other likely LCC entrants into the Oz market for the foreseeable future, so wind back JQ a bit and move more assets into a leaner QF
A true LCC would be grabbing as much market share as possible
A true LCC would have lower fares than JQ
A true LCC would have a much larger share of the triangle

QF created JQ because they had to and will use it when needed
During the recovery JQ will shrink in frames, while QF will expand, as they both already have
JQ will only expand again when a new threat is on the horizon

Pre Covid
After a capacity war between QF and VA, there was some agreement that was well published, that the capacity war was over and both would be slightly cutting capacity by 2 or 3 percent to maintain margins PRICE FIXING!!!
This can be easily done with a duopoly, much harder when there is a third player....

Fleet ages
737s
QF 14.4 years
VA 9.7 years
ZL 14.1 years

Overall
QF 13.2 years
VA 9.7 years
ZL 24.6 years
QQ 26.6 years
ZL SAABs 26.1 years
Dash-8s 14.7 years
QQ has and older fleet than ZL lol

Jumping into routes
Putting 6 737s into the SYD - MLB or a couple of flights to OOL or ADL is not the same as
Orange adding 100 seats per day into a 100 seat market
Merimbula adding 70 daily seats to a 100 seat market to Sydney and Melbourne
Kangaroo Island adding 70 daily seats into a 50 seat market

Others post that REX can't compete where there is competition, only on subsidised routes
How about Wagga, Albury, Dubbo, Armidale etc... All have been served by ZL and QF for years...

Where do I start? Maybe I could say punctuation.

Insofar as start-ups are concerned, their history is poor in Australia. Both Compass', Ozjet and Impulse all failed because they were all under-capitalized and insufficiently differentiated to attract a profitable segment of the market. REX's attempt at jet operations appears to be following the same pattern. East-West was different as it was very much a regional carrier until Ansett morphed into a leisure carrier. It never really competed on trunk routes. Only Virgin Blue has succeeded as a truly new entrant mainly because it could occupy the share that Ansett vacated but also because it adopted a new approach introducing a lower cost option to the Australian market.

QF didn't see LCCs as its greatest threat. At the time, it was trying to finish off Ansett. Impulse was a flawed model but Qantas saw it could gain a new fleet on a much lower cost base and initially used it a subset of the Qantas fleet much like it is now but, when Jetstar was conceived, the 717s were used because they had low costs (crew etc) and were available immediately and covered until the new JQ A320s could be delivered. Virgin Blue was a greater threat because it was initially a very disciplined operation and very profitably gathered up a lot of the market share that appeared when AN collapsed. It was the threat of the mid-market operator DJ that led to the creation of JQ but it was also a device whereby QF could force some massive industrial changes on the QF business and this still continues today.

You seem to confuse a ULCC with a LCC. JQ is a good example of a LCC but is different from a ULCC such as Spirit or Ryanair. Tiger was as close as we have ever gotten to a ULCC but it appears the Australian consumer is not quite ready to accept the deliberately poor service these businesses provide and there is also the issue that a lack of airport competition in major Australian cities makes is hard for a ULCC to massively undercut the costs of a well run mainline operation.

I don't know where you get the idea that JQ will shrink as we recover from Covid. If anything, it will grow faster as most of the recovery is in the domestic leisure sector which is where JQ operates best.

Your comment that there was a price fixing agreement between Qantas and Virgin is without basis. Both were losing massive amounts in a capacity war and both withdrew. There is no evidence of collusion however.

I'm not sure what you are trying to show with your fleet age list. For example, you comment on Alliance's fleet age but its fleet is predominantly concentrated in FIFO operations where utilisation can be quite low and the F100 is shown to be a truly excellent candidate for these type of services particularly as Alliance managed to buy a lot of them for almost nothing. If there is an issue with fleet age, it is that Qantas and Virgin are both acting on plans that will renew their NB fleets over the next 6 or 7 years whereas REX does not have the ability to follow them particularly as its core regional fleet is also approaching urgent replacement.

ZL is currently too small to significantly affect the profits of either QF or VA but that doesn't mean they would accept the entry of a third player without responding. ZL has chosen a poorly differentiated product so is competing solely on price. This is never a good approach particularly when you have competitors with deeper pockets than you. You talk about the opportunity for a ULCC in Australia. I don't know how well that will work in Australia but at least it is different. As it currently stands, the REX jet operation looks decidedly half-hearted and it is hard to see how it can succeed with its current trajectory.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 6:33 am

utaussiefan wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Alliance E90 to operate following routes for Qantas

ADL-OOL 4-7 weekly from 25 June 21
DRW-CBR, 10 weekly from 21 June 21

https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 65508?s=21

Any idea on when these flights might go on sale?


I wouldn't take anything from that Twitter account or his previous RoutesOnline one as 'Gospel' because these are simply entries made into the GDS, and while most of the time what goes into the GDS then flows through to the airline's website to be made available for booking, this is not always the case. QF could make changes to those dates and frequencies for example, I've even noticed times when a GDS entry got dropped and never made it onto the schedule.
 
Deano969
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 6:48 am

BNEFlyer wrote:
Deano969 wrote:
Others post that REX can't compete where there is competition, only on subsidised routes
How about Wagga, Albury, Dubbo, Armidale etc... All have been served by ZL and QF for years...

Those routes show that competition doesn't mean low fares, and they're also not truly competitive. I try to visit family in the Wagga area at least once a year and find a BNE-WGA flight for less than $600 is extremely rare. And that's on QF because QF can get me from BNE to WGA. Rex can only get me from SYD or MEL to WGA (or any of those other destinations).


Syd-Wagga $99 REX
Wagga-Syd $168 REX
Get yourself from Bris to Syd on Jetstar for under $100 each way
Save yourself about $130

$190 each way on QF from Syd
$330 each way from BNE

But you can't seriously compare Bris to Wagga if REX don't operate that sector....
 
Deano969
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 6:55 am

Deano969 wrote:
BNEFlyer wrote:
Deano969 wrote:
Others post that REX can't compete where there is competition, only on subsidised routes
How about Wagga, Albury, Dubbo, Armidale etc... All have been served by ZL and QF for years...

Those routes show that competition doesn't mean low fares, and they're also not truly competitive. I try to visit family in the Wagga area at least once a year and find a BNE-WGA flight for less than $600 is extremely rare. And that's on QF because QF can get me from BNE to WGA. Rex can only get me from SYD or MEL to WGA (or any of those other destinations).


Syd-Wagga $99 REX
Wagga-Syd $168 REX
Get yourself from Bris to Syd on Jetstar for under $100 each way
Save yourself about $130

$190 each way on QF from Syd
$330 each way from BNE

But you can't seriously compare Bris to Wagga if REX don't operate that sector....


Perhaps you could drive to the Gold Coast $257 and $188 is $445 return QF $257 each way for $514,

There is your competition.....
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 2:06 pm

Does anyone know much about the history of ZL flying to KGC Kingscote, Kangaroo Island)?

I just finished a two day stay on KI and as you’d expect, the massive bush/wild fires were still a talking point. Quite a few of the travel reps were really furious at ZL saying they used the fires as an excuse to cancel their services to the island. But then they were gushing over QF and how they saved the day by entering the market. Apparently until CoVid hit, QF were even doing a MEL-KGC. I’d think that’d be a job for a Dash-8 wouldn’t it?

I’d like to get an unbiased view of the history to find out what actually happened or understand the events.
Cheers,
C1973


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DeltaB717
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 12:18 am

ZL flew ADL-KGC once or twice most days for many years. They pulled the pin when Qantas announced they would add a service to KI (along with several other routes which suffered the same fate) but I do vaguely recall reading or hearing something about the fires being part of their reason.

QF is now operating the ADL-KGC route with a Q300 at a less than daily frequency. They previously operated a MEL-KGC seasonal (summer, mostly school holidays) service using a Q400 but from memory that only happened in summer 18/19 and summer 19/20.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 2:51 am

Going off comments on other forums like Australian Frequent Flyers and Pprune Rex's numbers were pretty dire at the end of April.

Comments like "12% load factors", "multiple flights with single digit pax loads", "saw no more than 6 bags taken off a Rex 737", "the highest pax load on that 737 route all week was 35"...
 
777luver
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 3:17 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Going off comments on other forums like Australian Frequent Flyers and Pprune Rex's numbers were pretty dire at the end of April.

Comments like "12% load factors", "multiple flights with single digit pax loads", "saw no more than 6 bags taken off a Rex 737", "the highest pax load on that 737 route all week was 35"...


Just to nitpick at the "6 bags comment", number of bags do not dictate whether a flight is full or not. But on a larger scale might mean something
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 4:43 am

777luver wrote:

Just to nitpick at the "6 bags comment", number of bags do not dictate whether a flight is full or not. But on a larger scale might mean something


On a regular RPT flight between Sydney and Melbourne, even if a lot are taking hand luggage, 6 checked bags generally doesn't mean more than a few dozen people. That's got to be no more than a 15-20% load factor tops.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 5:09 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
777luver wrote:

Just to nitpick at the "6 bags comment", number of bags do not dictate whether a flight is full or not. But on a larger scale might mean something


On a regular RPT flight between Sydney and Melbourne, even if a lot are taking hand luggage, 6 checked bags generally doesn't mean more than a few dozen people. That's got to be no more than a 15-20% load factor tops.

Even on a morning peak hour flight, you'd expect at least 1/3 of pax to have checked luggage. Outside of peak business traffic hours, you'd expect well over 1/2 of pax to have checked luggage.
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anstar
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 8:30 am

Deano969 wrote:
JQ will only expand again when a new threat is on the horizon



JQ are expanding. They have 787's coming onto domestic routes from MEL/SYD and they have aircraft coming in from the Asian operations. This means that their domestic capacity will be around 120% of what it was pre covid... thats growth in domestic.
 
BNEFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 9:27 am

Deano969 wrote:
BNEFlyer wrote:
Deano969 wrote:
Others post that REX can't compete where there is competition, only on subsidised routes
How about Wagga, Albury, Dubbo, Armidale etc... All have been served by ZL and QF for years...

Those routes show that competition doesn't mean low fares, and they're also not truly competitive. I try to visit family in the Wagga area at least once a year and find a BNE-WGA flight for less than $600 is extremely rare. And that's on QF because QF can get me from BNE to WGA. Rex can only get me from SYD or MEL to WGA (or any of those other destinations).


Syd-Wagga $99 REX
Wagga-Syd $168 REX
Get yourself from Bris to Syd on Jetstar for under $100 each way
Save yourself about $130

$190 each way on QF from Syd
$330 each way from BNE

But you can't seriously compare Bris to Wagga if REX don't operate that sector....

Not comparing BNE-WGA to SYD-WGA, but it was an example that regional destinations with both QF and ZL are often still similar (high) prices.

Obviously BNE-WGA is no longer operated by any airline, but SYD-WGA (and the other destinations noted earlier) still attract high fares even with competition.

Why don't ZL price more fiercely on regional routes like they are on the jet routes?
 
BNEFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 9:28 am

Deano969 wrote:
Deano969 wrote:
BNEFlyer wrote:
Those routes show that competition doesn't mean low fares, and they're also not truly competitive. I try to visit family in the Wagga area at least once a year and find a BNE-WGA flight for less than $600 is extremely rare. And that's on QF because QF can get me from BNE to WGA. Rex can only get me from SYD or MEL to WGA (or any of those other destinations).


Syd-Wagga $99 REX
Wagga-Syd $168 REX
Get yourself from Bris to Syd on Jetstar for under $100 each way
Save yourself about $130

$190 each way on QF from Syd
$330 each way from BNE

But you can't seriously compare Bris to Wagga if REX don't operate that sector....


Perhaps you could drive to the Gold Coast $257 and $188 is $445 return QF $257 each way for $514,

There is your competition.....

No thanks (not driving to OOL or connecting ZL), but I get your point.
 
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YMHBSpotting
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 9:28 am

Just noticed Alliance have moved the F50 off the Adelaide to Olympic Dam flights by August, any idea what route they are moving to, or if they are being retired? I had been hoping to fly on one this year
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StefanP
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 12:00 pm

YMHBSpotting wrote:
Just noticed Alliance have moved the F50 off the Adelaide to Olympic Dam flights by August, any idea what route they are moving to, or if they are being retired? I had been hoping to fly on one this year


The Alliance F50's have been withdrawn from use. F100's have replaced them on Olympic Dam routes. F70's operate the Moomba runs.
Stefan
 
ben175
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 1:45 pm

Has VA quietly axed PER-KGI-MEL since the pandemic or was it discontinued beforehand?

One of my favourite domestic spottings was seeing the F100 glistening under the lights at MEL during a night storm.
 
Fuling
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 2:09 pm

Looks like QF are sending A330's up to Darwin again for the dry season, starting later this month. SYD sees a daily A332, and BNE sees a 3x weekly A333 (going daily in July) - both on the day trip return services.

When was the last time QF sent A330's to DRW? I have great memories of flying BNE-DRW rtn. on a Thursday or Sunday back in 2011 (before BNE-HKG was daily). Loved the B763 but the A333 was a nice treat.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 3:16 am

qf789 wrote:
Alliance E90 to operate following routes for Qantas

ADL-OOL 4-7 weekly from 25 June 21
DRW-CBR, 10 weekly from 21 June 21

https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 65508?s=21


Now confirmed by QF, Alliance E90’s in QF colours will go from 3 to 8 with 5 being based in ADL

ADL-SYD and ADL-MEL will add another daily service in coming months

ADL-MGB to go from 5-12 weekly, let’s see how REX responds, most likely with a hissy fit

More ADL routes to be announced in coming weeks

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... st-flights
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 3:22 am

Qantas will also start MEL-BWT (Burnie) from 21 June 21, 7 weekly with Q300

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... to-burnie/
Forum Moderator
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 3:32 am

qf789 wrote:
Qantas will also start MEL-BWT (Burnie) from 21 June 21, 7 weekly with Q300

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... to-burnie/


Hitting another Rex route. Expect their response imminently...
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 3:34 am

qf789 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Alliance E90 to operate following routes for Qantas

ADL-OOL 4-7 weekly from 25 June 21
DRW-CBR, 10 weekly from 21 June 21

https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 65508?s=21


Now confirmed by QF, Alliance E90’s in QF colours will go from 3 to 8 with 5 being based in ADL

ADL-SYD and ADL-MEL will add another daily service in coming months

ADL-MGB to go from 5-12 weekly, let’s see how REX responds, most likely with a hissy fit

More ADL routes to be announced in coming weeks

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... st-flights


Can someone please remind me how many E190s Alliance is due to receive, and the break down between Copa and AA? Thanks in advance!
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 3:55 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
qf789 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Alliance E90 to operate following routes for Qantas

ADL-OOL 4-7 weekly from 25 June 21
DRW-CBR, 10 weekly from 21 June 21

https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 65508?s=21


Now confirmed by QF, Alliance E90’s in QF colours will go from 3 to 8 with 5 being based in ADL

ADL-SYD and ADL-MEL will add another daily service in coming months

ADL-MGB to go from 5-12 weekly, let’s see how REX responds, most likely with a hissy fit

More ADL routes to be announced in coming weeks

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... st-flights


Can someone please remind me how many E190s Alliance is due to receive, and the break down between Copa and AA? Thanks in advance!


30 in total 14 from Copa and 16 from American

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... -e190-jets
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tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 4:16 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Qantas will also start MEL-BWT (Burnie) from 21 June 21, 7 weekly with Q300

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... to-burnie/


Hitting another Rex route. Expect their response imminently...


I don't really understand this route addition. DPO is only 50kms from BWT.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
aerokiwi
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 4:27 am

qf789 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Alliance E90 to operate following routes for Qantas

ADL-OOL 4-7 weekly from 25 June 21
DRW-CBR, 10 weekly from 21 June 21

https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 65508?s=21


Now confirmed by QF, Alliance E90’s in QF colours will go from 3 to 8 with 5 being based in ADL

ADL-SYD and ADL-MEL will add another daily service in coming months

ADL-MGB to go from 5-12 weekly, let’s see how REX responds, most likely with a hissy fit

More ADL routes to be announced in coming weeks

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... st-flights


Interesting move. Now to see what, if anything, Alliance plans to do with Virgin. VA could do with 2- 4 weekday returns on SYD-CBR - Qantas fares are extraordinary and REX is, well, REX.
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 5:05 am

qf789 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Alliance E90 to operate following routes for Qantas

ADL-OOL 4-7 weekly from 25 June 21
DRW-CBR, 10 weekly from 21 June 21

https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 65508?s=21


Now confirmed by QF, Alliance E90’s in QF colours will go from 3 to 8 with 5 being based in ADL

ADL-SYD and ADL-MEL will add another daily service in coming months

ADL-MGB to go from 5-12 weekly, let’s see how REX responds, most likely with a hissy fit

More ADL routes to be announced in coming weeks

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... st-flights


ADL-AKL? was an route that QF/JQ tired years ago yet failed. NZ is currently operating it 3-4x weekly with A321NEO's.

CBR-DRW is almost the same distance as ADL-AKL.

Alliance must have some form of ETPOP's rating for the E190's as they are planning to operate some of VA's International services ex-BNE.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 9:19 am

zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Alliance E90 to operate following routes for Qantas

ADL-OOL 4-7 weekly from 25 June 21
DRW-CBR, 10 weekly from 21 June 21

https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 65508?s=21


Now confirmed by QF, Alliance E90’s in QF colours will go from 3 to 8 with 5 being based in ADL

ADL-SYD and ADL-MEL will add another daily service in coming months

ADL-MGB to go from 5-12 weekly, let’s see how REX responds, most likely with a hissy fit

More ADL routes to be announced in coming weeks

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... st-flights


ADL-AKL? was an route that QF/JQ tired years ago yet failed. NZ is currently operating it 3-4x weekly with A321NEO's.

CBR-DRW is almost the same distance as ADL-AKL.

Alliance must have some form of ETPOP's rating for the E190's as they are planning to operate some of VA's International services ex-BNE.

I get the impression that the Tasman Bubble is not exactly booming. Australians are pretty burned by border closures so maybe they are not ready to travel or maybe they had already worked out their local travel domestically before the bubble was opened. Either way, demand has been way down so I can't see QF rushing to open any more services across the Ditch.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
Foopz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 10:44 am

ben175 wrote:
Has VA quietly axed PER-KGI-MEL since the pandemic or was it discontinued beforehand?

One of my favourite domestic spottings was seeing the F100 glistening under the lights at MEL during a night storm.


Only since the pandemic, last time KGI-MEL operated was 22/03/2020. VARA hadn't used F100's for the route in years though, an A320 did PER-KGI-MEL on Fridays, then that same A320 would do a few MEL-ADL / ADL-MEL runs on Saturday's and Sunday morning before heading back MEL-KGI-PER on Sunday afternoon. The VARA A320's currently sit mostly dormant on the weekend still in PER, so I suspect it has been discontinued going forward as there's no reason it couldn't be done again with VARA or Mainline for that matter.

One of the issues with viability of the route was they'd essentially have to fly an empty A320 KGI - PER late on Sunday evening, although this was a bookable flight it always had very bad load factor - whereas they'd just use an A320 on an existing outbound Friday PER-KGI flight rather than have to add something to the schedule.
 
qf2048
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 9:32 pm

Looks like the ACCC are going to reject the QF-JL partnership. As a QFF I was personally all for it. Love flying on (and still will) JL.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... s-alliance
ZL,QF,KE,BA,AS,CX,FR,U2,W6,EI,IB,JL,AY,LH,AA,AC,FQ,DJ,JQ,LA,FJ,QS,NZ,NF,SB,PG,EK,AB,VA,MH,KA,VN
 
qf2048
Posts: 152
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 12:53 am

Just noticed on flight radar a Rex 737 land at CBR as ZL9911. Can we expect another jet route announcement from them today??
ZL,QF,KE,BA,AS,CX,FR,U2,W6,EI,IB,JL,AY,LH,AA,AC,FQ,DJ,JQ,LA,FJ,QS,NZ,NF,SB,PG,EK,AB,VA,MH,KA,VN
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2791
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 1:18 am

Foopz wrote:
ben175 wrote:
Has VA quietly axed PER-KGI-MEL since the pandemic or was it discontinued beforehand?

One of my favourite domestic spottings was seeing the F100 glistening under the lights at MEL during a night storm.


Only since the pandemic, last time KGI-MEL operated was 22/03/2020. VARA hadn't used F100's for the route in years though, an A320 did PER-KGI-MEL on Fridays, then that same A320 would do a few MEL-ADL / ADL-MEL runs on Saturday's and Sunday morning before heading back MEL-KGI-PER on Sunday afternoon. The VARA A320's currently sit mostly dormant on the weekend still in PER, so I suspect it has been discontinued going forward as there's no reason it couldn't be done again with VARA or Mainline for that matter.

One of the issues with viability of the route was they'd essentially have to fly an empty A320 KGI - PER late on Sunday evening, although this was a bookable flight it always had very bad load factor - whereas they'd just use an A320 on an existing outbound Friday PER-KGI flight rather than have to add something to the schedule.

I assume it was operated principally in support of a particular FIFO contract which may no longer be required.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
a320fan
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 8:02 am

Qantas has completed a review of its property footprint and decided, after wrangling incentives out of 3 state governments, to keep head office in Sydney, keep Jetstar head office in Melbourne, and keep the Brisbane heavy maintenance facility open.

Additionally they’ve made an agreement with the NSW government that the first project sunrise routes to London and New York will be from Sydney.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... zAR72aLiHU
A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A350-900, A380, 737-700, 737-800, 777-200ER, 777-300, 777-300ER, 787-8, Q300, Q400
 
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SCFlyer
Posts: 707
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 8:42 am

qf2048 wrote:
Just noticed on flight radar a Rex 737 land at CBR as ZL9911. Can we expect another jet route announcement from them today??


Reported to be positioning for a charter to BNE as part of the Super Rugby AU finals.
 
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qf2220
Posts: 2063
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 1:58 am

a320fan wrote:
Qantas has completed a review of its property footprint and decided, after wrangling incentives out of 3 state governments, to keep head office in Sydney, keep Jetstar head office in Melbourne, and keep the Brisbane heavy maintenance facility open.

Additionally they’ve made an agreement with the NSW government that the first project sunrise routes to London and New York will be from Sydney.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... zAR72aLiHU


And no-one at all is surprised by any of these announcements whatsoever.....
 
Flyingsottsman
Posts: 837
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:32 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 2:45 am

qf2220 wrote:
a320fan wrote:
Qantas has completed a review of its property footprint and decided, after wrangling incentives out of 3 state governments, to keep head office in Sydney, keep Jetstar head office in Melbourne, and keep the Brisbane heavy maintenance facility open.

Additionally they’ve made an agreement with the NSW government that the first project sunrise routes to London and New York will be from Sydney.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... zAR72aLiHU


And no-one at all is surprised by any of these announcements whatsoever.....


It was never going to change, I just wish QF would bring back some heavy maintenance back to Sydney and Melbourne. Every time I read posts about Qantas and its structure I get confused, there is Qantas, mainline eg International/Domestic, Qantas Link is that a separate company that flies aircraft under the Qantas Livery? In Western Australia, Network is that a separate company that flies F100s, for FIFO but in QF Colours? The Jet Connect is or was that a separate that flew New Zealand Registered 737s across the ditch on Qantas colours. I am just confused with the whole QF operations, and how does JQ fit into the QF operations are they a company on their own, are they a separate company that fly QF aircraft but in the JQ livery?
 
a320fan
Posts: 926
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:04 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 3:12 am

Flyingsottsman wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
a320fan wrote:
Qantas has completed a review of its property footprint and decided, after wrangling incentives out of 3 state governments, to keep head office in Sydney, keep Jetstar head office in Melbourne, and keep the Brisbane heavy maintenance facility open.

Additionally they’ve made an agreement with the NSW government that the first project sunrise routes to London and New York will be from Sydney.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... zAR72aLiHU


And no-one at all is surprised by any of these announcements whatsoever.....


It was never going to change, I just wish QF would bring back some heavy maintenance back to Sydney and Melbourne. Every time I read posts about Qantas and its structure I get confused, there is Qantas, mainline eg International/Domestic, Qantas Link is that a separate company that flies aircraft under the Qantas Livery? In Western Australia, Network is that a separate company that flies F100s, for FIFO but in QF Colours? The Jet Connect is or was that a separate that flew New Zealand Registered 737s across the ditch on Qantas colours. I am just confused with the whole QF operations, and how does JQ fit into the QF operations are they a company on their own, are they a separate company that fly QF aircraft but in the JQ livery?


Qantas certainly have a lot of AOCs and subsidiaries,
QF mainline, the main airline both international and domestic flying 737, A330, 787 And A380

Qantas link is made up of several airlines all wholly owned by Qantas and operating on the Qantas network with QF flight numbers.
- Sunstate, operates the Q400 fleet
- Eastern Australia airlines, operate the Q300/200
- National Jet System, for the 717 fleet
- Network Aviation, F100 and A320, primarily operates mine charters in WA.

The Jetstar is owned by Qantas but operates as an independent airline operating A320/1 and 717.

Then Jetconnect used to be a NZ based 737 airline operating trans Tasman flights but now operates as a crewing agency employing crew for QF on NZ terms and conditions.
A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A350-900, A380, 737-700, 737-800, 777-200ER, 777-300, 777-300ER, 787-8, Q300, Q400
 
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EK413
Posts: 5658
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 4:20 am

a320fan wrote:
Flyingsottsman wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

And no-one at all is surprised by any of these announcements whatsoever.....


It was never going to change, I just wish QF would bring back some heavy maintenance back to Sydney and Melbourne. Every time I read posts about Qantas and its structure I get confused, there is Qantas, mainline eg International/Domestic, Qantas Link is that a separate company that flies aircraft under the Qantas Livery? In Western Australia, Network is that a separate company that flies F100s, for FIFO but in QF Colours? The Jet Connect is or was that a separate that flew New Zealand Registered 737s across the ditch on Qantas colours. I am just confused with the whole QF operations, and how does JQ fit into the QF operations are they a company on their own, are they a separate company that fly QF aircraft but in the JQ livery?


Qantas certainly have a lot of AOCs and subsidiaries,
QF mainline, the main airline both international and domestic flying 737, A330, 787 And A380

Qantas link is made up of several airlines all wholly owned by Qantas and operating on the Qantas network with QF flight numbers.
- Sunstate, operates the Q400 fleet
- Eastern Australia airlines, operate the Q300/200
- National Jet System, for the 717 fleet
- Network Aviation, F100 and A320, primarily operates mine charters in WA.

The Jetstar is owned by Qantas but operates as an independent airline operating A320/1 and 717.

Then Jetconnect used to be a NZ based 737 airline operating trans Tasman flights but now operates as a crewing agency employing crew for QF on NZ terms and conditions.

& then we have a wet lease arrangement between QF & QQ...

Note: I believe you meant JQ B787 not B717....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
redroo
Posts: 594
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 4:53 am

qf2220 wrote:
a320fan wrote:
Qantas has completed a review of its property footprint and decided, after wrangling incentives out of 3 state governments, to keep head office in Sydney, keep Jetstar head office in Melbourne, and keep the Brisbane heavy maintenance facility open.

Additionally they’ve made an agreement with the NSW government that the first project sunrise routes to London and New York will be from Sydney.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... zAR72aLiHU


And no-one at all is surprised by any of these announcements whatsoever.....


More fool the state governments thinking there was any seriousness to the threat of moving.
 
Flyingsottsman
Posts: 837
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:32 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 10:35 am

a320fan wrote:
Flyingsottsman wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

And no-one at all is surprised by any of these announcements whatsoever.....


It was never going to change, I just wish QF would bring back some heavy maintenance back to Sydney and Melbourne. Every time I read posts about Qantas and its structure I get confused, there is Qantas, mainline eg International/Domestic, Qantas Link is that a separate company that flies aircraft under the Qantas Livery? In Western Australia, Network is that a separate company that flies F100s, for FIFO but in QF Colours? The Jet Connect is or was that a separate that flew New Zealand Registered 737s across the ditch on Qantas colours. I am just confused with the whole QF operations, and how does JQ fit into the QF operations are they a company on their own, are they a separate company that fly QF aircraft but in the JQ livery?


Qantas certainly have a lot of AOCs and subsidiaries,
QF mainline, the main airline both international and domestic flying 737, A330, 787 And A380

Qantas link is made up of several airlines all wholly owned by Qantas and operating on the Qantas network with QF flight numbers.
- Sunstate, operates the Q400 fleet
- Eastern Australia airlines, operate the Q300/200
- National Jet System, for the 717 fleet
- Network Aviation, F100 and A320, primarily operates mine charters in WA.

The Jetstar is owned by Qantas but operates as an independent airline operating A320/1 and 717.

Then Jetconnect used to be a NZ based 737 airline operating trans Tasman flights but now operates as a crewing agency employing crew for QF on NZ terms and conditions.

So, what happened to all those New Zealand Based 737s, are they still with Qantas or have they been moved on?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7889
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 10:41 am

Flyingsottsman wrote:
a320fan wrote:
Flyingsottsman wrote:

It was never going to change, I just wish QF would bring back some heavy maintenance back to Sydney and Melbourne. Every time I read posts about Qantas and its structure I get confused, there is Qantas, mainline eg International/Domestic, Qantas Link is that a separate company that flies aircraft under the Qantas Livery? In Western Australia, Network is that a separate company that flies F100s, for FIFO but in QF Colours? The Jet Connect is or was that a separate that flew New Zealand Registered 737s across the ditch on Qantas colours. I am just confused with the whole QF operations, and how does JQ fit into the QF operations are they a company on their own, are they a separate company that fly QF aircraft but in the JQ livery?


Qantas certainly have a lot of AOCs and subsidiaries,
QF mainline, the main airline both international and domestic flying 737, A330, 787 And A380

Qantas link is made up of several airlines all wholly owned by Qantas and operating on the Qantas network with QF flight numbers.
- Sunstate, operates the Q400 fleet
- Eastern Australia airlines, operate the Q300/200
- National Jet System, for the 717 fleet
- Network Aviation, F100 and A320, primarily operates mine charters in WA.

The Jetstar is owned by Qantas but operates as an independent airline operating A320/1 and 717.

Then Jetconnect used to be a NZ based 737 airline operating trans Tasman flights but now operates as a crewing agency employing crew for QF on NZ terms and conditions.

So, what happened to all those New Zealand Based 737s, are they still with Qantas or have they been moved on?


Back with QF mainline.
 
Flyingsottsman
Posts: 837
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:32 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 10:49 am

My wife just told me tonight she read on a news site on her phone, that international boarder will not open until 2022, she cant say what site she read that on, so how will that affect Qantas who was hoping that international travel may commence in October. Will their A380s have to go back into storage, and will they need to ground a couple of A330s and 787s?
 
a320fan
Posts: 926
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:04 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 12:00 pm

Qantas will just keep going as they are with a booming market for domestic leisure travel opening up new routes all over the place. A small fleet of 787s will keep flying repat flights brining Australians home and the A380s have not left storage and won’t for quite a while even if the borders were to open tomorrow. The A330 fleet will probably operate with low utilisation or only partly activated on some of the busier domestic and TT routes.
A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A350-900, A380, 737-700, 737-800, 777-200ER, 777-300, 777-300ER, 787-8, Q300, Q400
 
melpax
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 12:24 pm

Flyingsottsman wrote:
My wife just told me tonight she read on a news site on her phone, that international boarder will not open until 2022, she cant say what site she read that on, so how will that affect Qantas who was hoping that international travel may commence in October. Will their A380s have to go back into storage, and will they need to ground a couple of A330s and 787s?


Interview with ScoMo in today's Murdoch papers, where he has basically said that restrictions on International travel will be 'indefinite'. Which basically means late 2022-2023 at this stage.

Not a suprise given what's happening in India, and the slow vaccine roll-out here.

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavir ... 4bb7b1f0cc
 
777luver
Posts: 562
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 6:19 pm

In regards to the border reopening, depends on what news source you read, I read mid 2022, and beginning of 2022 so who knows
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 5658
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 7:00 pm

melpax wrote:
Flyingsottsman wrote:
My wife just told me tonight she read on a news site on her phone, that international boarder will not open until 2022, she cant say what site she read that on, so how will that affect Qantas who was hoping that international travel may commence in October. Will their A380s have to go back into storage, and will they need to ground a couple of A330s and 787s?


Interview with ScoMo in today's Murdoch papers, where he has basically said that restrictions on International travel will be 'indefinite'. Which basically means late 2022-2023 at this stage.

Not a suprise given what's happening in India, and the slow vaccine roll-out here.

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavir ... 4bb7b1f0cc

Even with a vaccine rolled out it’s been proven to not be effective with SYD latest quarantine return travellers testing positive even though they had the jab...

The October startup was always optimistic...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 2063
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 10:58 pm

redroo wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
a320fan wrote:
Qantas has completed a review of its property footprint and decided, after wrangling incentives out of 3 state governments, to keep head office in Sydney, keep Jetstar head office in Melbourne, and keep the Brisbane heavy maintenance facility open.

Additionally they’ve made an agreement with the NSW government that the first project sunrise routes to London and New York will be from Sydney.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... zAR72aLiHU


And no-one at all is surprised by any of these announcements whatsoever.....


More fool the state governments thinking there was any seriousness to the threat of moving.


Nah if QLD had offered up a stack of cash and NSW and VIC had said, nah, theres no way you'll move, QF and JQ could have definitely moved elsewhere. Thats the problem with game theory.... Cant trust what the others will do so youre going to have to get a bit dirty to stay clean.
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 12:45 am

SCFlyer wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
Just noticed on flight radar a Rex 737 land at CBR as ZL9911. Can we expect another jet route announcement from them today??


Reported to be positioning for a charter to BNE as part of the Super Rugby AU finals.

Correct, VH-PAG flew the Brumbies CBR-BNE-CBR, up on Saturday afternoon, back (trophy-less) Sunday afternoon. PAG then went back to MEL Sunday evening.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2791
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 1:01 am

BNEFlyer wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
Just noticed on flight radar a Rex 737 land at CBR as ZL9911. Can we expect another jet route announcement from them today??


Reported to be positioning for a charter to BNE as part of the Super Rugby AU finals.

Correct, VH-PAG flew the Brumbies CBR-BNE-CBR, up on Saturday afternoon, back (trophy-less) Sunday afternoon. PAG then went back to MEL Sunday evening.

PAG flew back to MEL empty.....situation normal for REX really. :box:
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
ben175
Posts: 848
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:44 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 6:23 am

tullamarine wrote:
BNEFlyer wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:

Reported to be positioning for a charter to BNE as part of the Super Rugby AU finals.

Correct, VH-PAG flew the Brumbies CBR-BNE-CBR, up on Saturday afternoon, back (trophy-less) Sunday afternoon. PAG then went back to MEL Sunday evening.

PAG flew back to MEL empty.....situation normal for REX really. :box:


I was looking for MEL-SYD-MEL fares this weekend and on one sector, Rex had sold out 4 of their flights.

Granted most passengers are probably on the $39 fares, but at least they’re getting bums on seats now!
 
qf2048
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:16 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 6:54 am

BNEFlyer wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
Just noticed on flight radar a Rex 737 land at CBR as ZL9911. Can we expect another jet route announcement from them today??


Reported to be positioning for a charter to BNE as part of the Super Rugby AU finals.

Correct, VH-PAG flew the Brumbies CBR-BNE-CBR, up on Saturday afternoon, back (trophy-less) Sunday afternoon. PAG then went back to MEL Sunday evening.

I did watch that game. Was a nail biter. I suppose if ZL did a good price why wouldn't they use them.
Have noticed this year one of QLD's Red's sponsors is Alliance. They have advertising at the home games and on their shorts.
ZL,QF,KE,BA,AS,CX,FR,U2,W6,EI,IB,JL,AY,LH,AA,AC,FQ,DJ,JQ,LA,FJ,QS,NZ,NF,SB,PG,EK,AB,VA,MH,KA,VN
 
anstar
Posts: 3374
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 7:53 am

ben175 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
BNEFlyer wrote:
Correct, VH-PAG flew the Brumbies CBR-BNE-CBR, up on Saturday afternoon, back (trophy-less) Sunday afternoon. PAG then went back to MEL Sunday evening.

PAG flew back to MEL empty.....situation normal for REX really. :box:


I was looking for MEL-SYD-MEL fares this weekend and on one sector, Rex had sold out 4 of their flights.

Granted most passengers are probably on the $39 fares, but at least they’re getting bums on seats now!

I was looking at MEL-SYD fares today for travel this Friday and Rex still have $39 fares for sale on Friday afternoon.

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