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OzarkD9S
Topic Author
Posts: 5853
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:09 pm

https://simpleflying.com/southwest-transit-passengers/

1. Denver
2, Baltimore
3. Chicago Midway
4, Dallas Love
5, Las Vegas
6. Houston Hobby
7. Phoenix
8. Nashville
9. Atlanta
10. St Louis

Ran across a relatively informative article on Simple Flying (yes, I know) that has some other interesting statistics such as:

Connecting traffic percentages
2019 38%
2020 55%

Shows what 2 years and a pandemic can do to one carrier's network strategy.
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5766
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:33 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
https://simpleflying.com/southwest-transit-passengers/

1. Denver
2, Baltimore
3. Chicago Midway
4, Dallas Love
5, Las Vegas
6. Houston Hobby
7. Phoenix
8. Nashville
9. Atlanta
10. St Louis

Ran across a relatively informative article on Simple Flying (yes, I know) that has some other interesting statistics such as:

Connecting traffic percentages
2019 38%
2020 55%

Shows what 2 years and a pandemic can do to one carrier's network strategy.


I am misinformed I guess, it seems odd Oakland is not on this list, just my opinion I guess.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
Runway765
Posts: 316
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:21 am

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:38 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
https://simpleflying.com/southwest-transit-passengers/

1. Denver
2, Baltimore
3. Chicago Midway
4, Dallas Love
5, Las Vegas
6. Houston Hobby
7. Phoenix
8. Nashville
9. Atlanta
10. St Louis

Ran across a relatively informative article on Simple Flying (yes, I know) that has some other interesting statistics such as:

Connecting traffic percentages
2019 38%
2020 55%

Shows what 2 years and a pandemic can do to one carrier's network strategy.


1. Surprised LAS is as high as it is. I would have thought that was more of an O&D station. I would have thought PHX would be higher.

2. Wouldn't be surprised to see BNA move up to the top 5 someday.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2968
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:59 pm

I guess WN operates hubs after all. Wonder if the fact that the majority of their passengers are now connecting will change their internal use of terms like hub and spoke?

Jeremy
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14974
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:04 pm

RWA380 wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
https://simpleflying.com/southwest-transit-passengers/

1. Denver
2, Baltimore
3. Chicago Midway
4, Dallas Love
5, Las Vegas
6. Houston Hobby
7. Phoenix
8. Nashville
9. Atlanta
10. St Louis

Ran across a relatively informative article on Simple Flying (yes, I know) that has some other interesting statistics such as:

Connecting traffic percentages
2019 38%
2020 55%

Shows what 2 years and a pandemic can do to one carrier's network strategy.


I am misinformed I guess, it seems odd Oakland is not on this list, just my opinion I guess.


The "problem" with OAK is that it's poorly-located for east-west connections. It can handle SoCal-Northwest just fine but that's more of a niche flow than you see at places like HOU or DEN that can quite literally send folks in all directions. I fly WN a ton, including to the west coast, and I think I've connected at OAK once (on BNA-SNA when going to SNA helped me a lot logistically over an LAX nonstop).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
zuckie13
Posts: 369
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:22 pm

SESGDL wrote:
I guess WN operates hubs after all. Wonder if the fact that the majority of their passengers are now connecting will change their internal use of terms like hub and spoke?

Jeremy


That bump is probably short lived due the pandemic. As the get back to previous levels that will drop off again I'm sure. There just isn't the demand to run all of the point to point ones right now, so for financial reasons, more connections happen.
 
MrPeanut
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:36 pm

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:42 pm

Runway765 wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
https://simpleflying.com/southwest-transit-passengers/

1. Denver
2, Baltimore
3. Chicago Midway
4, Dallas Love
5, Las Vegas
6. Houston Hobby
7. Phoenix
8. Nashville
9. Atlanta
10. St Louis

Ran across a relatively informative article on Simple Flying (yes, I know) that has some other interesting statistics such as:

Connecting traffic percentages
2019 38%
2020 55%

Shows what 2 years and a pandemic can do to one carrier's network strategy.


1. Surprised LAS is as high as it is. I would have thought that was more of an O&D station. I would have thought PHX would be higher.

2. Wouldn't be surprised to see BNA move up to the top 5 someday.


PHX will change when Southwest's new 8 gate concourse opens up end of this year/beginning of next year.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9302
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:52 pm

No data source was cited. And people wonder why Simple Flying is mocked in this forum.
 
seatback
Posts: 635
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:00 am

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:07 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
No data source was cited. And people wonder why Simple Flying is mocked in this forum.


I've complained about their poor writing several times. But admittedly, I find myself checking the site out (akin to looking at a car accident as you drive by.)
 
FriscoHeavy
Posts: 1812
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:11 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
https://simpleflying.com/southwest-transit-passengers/

1. Denver
2, Baltimore
3. Chicago Midway
4, Dallas Love
5, Las Vegas
6. Houston Hobby
7. Phoenix
8. Nashville
9. Atlanta
10. St Louis

Ran across a relatively informative article on Simple Flying (yes, I know) that has some other interesting statistics such as:

Connecting traffic percentages
2019 38%
2020 55%

Shows what 2 years and a pandemic can do to one carrier's network strategy.


I am misinformed I guess, it seems odd Oakland is not on this list, just my opinion I guess.


The "problem" with OAK is that it's poorly-located for east-west connections. It can handle SoCal-Northwest just fine but that's more of a niche flow than you see at places like HOU or DEN that can quite literally send folks in all directions. I fly WN a ton, including to the west coast, and I think I've connected at OAK once (on BNA-SNA when going to SNA helped me a lot logistically over an LAX nonstop).


Um, you can say the exact same thing for BWI. It's terrible from a geographic location for connections for anything but up and down the East coast, yet somehow Southwest really makes it work from a connecting stand point. Why OAK isn't on the list, I don't know, but it certainly isn't only due to location because if it were, Baltimore wouldn't be on the list either.
Whatever
 
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OzarkD9S
Topic Author
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:20 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:

Um, you can say the exact same thing for BWI. It's terrible from a geographic location for connections for anything but up and down the East coast, yet somehow Southwest really makes it work from a connecting stand point. Why OAK isn't on the list, I don't know, but it certainly isn't only due to location because if it were, Baltimore wouldn't be on the list either.


The population density on the Eastern Seaboard is far larger than on the West Coast. That, and many more decent sized markets which can funnel traffic through BWI.
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
Cubsrule
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Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:51 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:

Um, you can say the exact same thing for BWI. It's terrible from a geographic location for connections for anything but up and down the East coast, yet somehow Southwest really makes it work from a connecting stand point. Why OAK isn't on the list, I don't know, but it certainly isn't only due to location because if it were, Baltimore wouldn't be on the list either.


The population density on the Eastern Seaboard is far larger than on the West Coast. That, and many more decent sized markets which can funnel traffic through BWI.


This, and also BWI is pretty isolated from other WN hubs. While out of the way, it’s one the best hubs for stuff like RDU-DTW or MKE-JAX. OAK has LAS, LAX, and SAN all relatively nearby.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Runway765
Posts: 316
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:21 am

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sat May 01, 2021 12:03 am

Cubsrule wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:

Um, you can say the exact same thing for BWI. It's terrible from a geographic location for connections for anything but up and down the East coast, yet somehow Southwest really makes it work from a connecting stand point. Why OAK isn't on the list, I don't know, but it certainly isn't only due to location because if it were, Baltimore wouldn't be on the list either.


The population density on the Eastern Seaboard is far larger than on the West Coast. That, and many more decent sized markets which can funnel traffic through BWI.


This, and also BWI is pretty isolated from other WN hubs. While out of the way, it’s one the best hubs for stuff like RDU-DTW or MKE-JAX. OAK has LAS, LAX, and SAN all relatively nearby.


Actually, BNA is much better for both of those examples you gave.

What’s pretty telling is BWI has 36 gates, yet has only just over 200 flights a day according to the latest city fact sheet. That’s not even 6 turns a day. Even pre-pandemic, BWI wasn’t utilized by WN to the full extent it could be. It makes me question why they built those extra 5 gates on A.
 
WN732
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sat May 01, 2021 12:36 am

Runway765 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:

The population density on the Eastern Seaboard is far larger than on the West Coast. That, and many more decent sized markets which can funnel traffic through BWI.


This, and also BWI is pretty isolated from other WN hubs. While out of the way, it’s one the best hubs for stuff like RDU-DTW or MKE-JAX. OAK has LAS, LAX, and SAN all relatively nearby.


Actually, BNA is much better for both of those examples you gave.

What’s pretty telling is BWI has 36 gates, yet has only just over 200 flights a day according to the latest city fact sheet. That’s not even 6 turns a day. Even pre-pandemic, BWI wasn’t utilized by WN to the full extent it could be. It makes me question why they built those extra 5 gates on A.


I really think they foresaw the Northeast operation panning out differently. They were definitely planning on BOS and EWR to grow much larger than they did. Not to mention their Caribbean growth has been somewhat stagnant since the AirTran merger. And BWI is a good transfer point to get pax to the Caribbean. However, there were too many better options for New Yorker's and Bostonian's to get down there than through BWI.

BWI is not exactly the wealthiest, and definitely not a massive business market considering the two major hubs already serving DC. WN does have a decent-sized operation at DCA on top of that. I also believe there is a bit of squatting in play there since gates and space in the majority of the Northeast airports are still very limited. What they do have is a great way to funnel folks from the west coast to smaller NE markets, and north/south traffic to Florida. And we all know there is an almost endless supply of folks going to/from Florida.
 
Runway765
Posts: 316
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:21 am

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sat May 01, 2021 12:53 am

WN732 wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

This, and also BWI is pretty isolated from other WN hubs. While out of the way, it’s one the best hubs for stuff like RDU-DTW or MKE-JAX. OAK has LAS, LAX, and SAN all relatively nearby.


Actually, BNA is much better for both of those examples you gave.

What’s pretty telling is BWI has 36 gates, yet has only just over 200 flights a day according to the latest city fact sheet. That’s not even 6 turns a day. Even pre-pandemic, BWI wasn’t utilized by WN to the full extent it could be. It makes me question why they built those extra 5 gates on A.


I really think they foresaw the Northeast operation panning out differently. They were definitely planning on BOS and EWR to grow much larger than they did. Not to mention their Caribbean growth has been somewhat stagnant since the AirTran merger. And BWI is a good transfer point to get pax to the Caribbean. However, there were too many better options for New Yorker's and Bostonian's to get down there than through BWI.

BWI is not exactly the wealthiest, and definitely not a massive business market considering the two major hubs already serving DC. WN does have a decent-sized operation at DCA on top of that. I also believe there is a bit of squatting in play there since gates and space in the majority of the Northeast airports are still very limited. What they do have is a great way to funnel folks from the west coast to smaller NE markets, and north/south traffic to Florida. And we all know there is an almost endless supply of folks going to/from Florida.


Those are good points. WN really should give up the 6 gates on C if they aren’t going to be doing at least 8 turns a day. 30 gates would be enough for what they want to do in BWI.
 
bloxomo
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sat May 01, 2021 1:00 am

FriscoHeavy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

I am misinformed I guess, it seems odd Oakland is not on this list, just my opinion I guess.


The "problem" with OAK is that it's poorly-located for east-west connections. It can handle SoCal-Northwest just fine but that's more of a niche flow than you see at places like HOU or DEN that can quite literally send folks in all directions. I fly WN a ton, including to the west coast, and I think I've connected at OAK once (on BNA-SNA when going to SNA helped me a lot logistically over an LAX nonstop).


Um, you can say the exact same thing for BWI. It's terrible from a geographic location for connections for anything but up and down the East coast, yet somehow Southwest really makes it work from a connecting stand point. Why OAK isn't on the list, I don't know, but it certainly isn't only due to location because if it were, Baltimore wouldn't be on the list either.


BWI is actually pretty good for connections from the west to the northeast since Philadelphia, NYC, Boston, etc. are north and east of BWI. SAN-BWI-BOS is only 76 miles longer than a nonstop. Even SEA-BWI-BOS is only 208 extra miles. MIA-OAK-SEA is 531 miles out of the way.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sat May 01, 2021 1:18 am

bloxomo wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

The "problem" with OAK is that it's poorly-located for east-west connections. It can handle SoCal-Northwest just fine but that's more of a niche flow than you see at places like HOU or DEN that can quite literally send folks in all directions. I fly WN a ton, including to the west coast, and I think I've connected at OAK once (on BNA-SNA when going to SNA helped me a lot logistically over an LAX nonstop).


Um, you can say the exact same thing for BWI. It's terrible from a geographic location for connections for anything but up and down the East coast, yet somehow Southwest really makes it work from a connecting stand point. Why OAK isn't on the list, I don't know, but it certainly isn't only due to location because if it were, Baltimore wouldn't be on the list either.


BWI is actually pretty good for connections from the west to the northeast since Philadelphia, NYC, Boston, etc. are north and east of BWI. SAN-BWI-BOS is only 76 miles longer than a nonstop. Even SEA-BWI-BOS is only 208 extra miles. MIA-OAK-SEA is 531 miles out of the way.


I has been thinking about the WN Hawaii operation, as OAK is the connecting point for much of that network. Since I lived in PDX, OAK was often the most logical connecting point often times. I usually would only fly WN if it were point to point, but would connect over OAK to get to Hawaii from EUG.

I was also thinking how EUG & SBA both, were connected to OAK, for the obvious onward opportunities. FAT was not. But LAS does offer quite a few options from the Pac NW as well. Just the shear number of flights out of OAK on WN I would think would put OAK further up the list.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
LAXLHR
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sat May 01, 2021 3:47 am

seatback wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
No data source was cited. And people wonder why Simple Flying is mocked in this forum.


I've complained about their poor writing several times. But admittedly, I find myself checking the site out (akin to looking at a car accident as you drive by.)


Same, its awful.

I truly believe its an AI from China.
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA KL

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 330s 340s 350 380
 
chicawgo
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sat May 01, 2021 5:00 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
No data source was cited. And people wonder why Simple Flying is mocked in this forum.


Exactly what I was thinking! Simply says they looked at OAG data and don’t even show anything? These lists are nonsense.
 
B6BOSfan
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sat May 01, 2021 6:09 am

As someone who lives in Boston and has used Southwest a fair number of times during the pandemic, I feel like BWI really only gets used for North/South connections along the East Coast. I have found myself connecting in DEN, STL, MDW. I see BNA show up a lot as connecting options.

Someone made the point that Southwest probably had plans for bigger aspirations in the Northeast vs. what reality actually has been. I couldn't agree with that statement more. Their operations are probably nowhere near as big as they'd hope for in BOS, MHT, PVD just to name a few Boston metro airports. We continue to see schedule cuts, that makes connecting at more and more of the airports challenging to impossible -- shrinking network options.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sat May 01, 2021 1:48 pm

RWA380 wrote:
bloxomo wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:

Um, you can say the exact same thing for BWI. It's terrible from a geographic location for connections for anything but up and down the East coast, yet somehow Southwest really makes it work from a connecting stand point. Why OAK isn't on the list, I don't know, but it certainly isn't only due to location because if it were, Baltimore wouldn't be on the list either.


BWI is actually pretty good for connections from the west to the northeast since Philadelphia, NYC, Boston, etc. are north and east of BWI. SAN-BWI-BOS is only 76 miles longer than a nonstop. Even SEA-BWI-BOS is only 208 extra miles. MIA-OAK-SEA is 531 miles out of the way.


I has been thinking about the WN Hawaii operation, as OAK is the connecting point for much of that network. Since I lived in PDX, OAK was often the most logical connecting point often times. I usually would only fly WN if it were point to point, but would connect over OAK to get to Hawaii from EUG.

I was also thinking how EUG & SBA both, were connected to OAK, for the obvious onward opportunities. FAT was not. But LAS does offer quite a few options from the Pac NW as well. Just the shear number of flights out of OAK on WN I would think would put OAK further up the list.


I imagine as we move out of pandemic times and WN builds up Hawaii flying, OAK may move onto this list. P2P routes will return and there’ll be less connecting over mid country airports.
 
pmanni1
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sat May 01, 2021 2:02 pm

chicawgo wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
No data source was cited. And people wonder why Simple Flying is mocked in this forum.


Exactly what I was thinking! Simply says they looked at OAG data and don’t even show anything? These lists are nonsense.

These are all WN focus cities so why would it be nonsense? What other WN cities would have more connections?
 
as739x
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sat May 01, 2021 6:41 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

I am misinformed I guess, it seems odd Oakland is not on this list, just my opinion I guess.


The "problem" with OAK is that it's poorly-located for east-west connections. It can handle SoCal-Northwest just fine but that's more of a niche flow than you see at places like HOU or DEN that can quite literally send folks in all directions. I fly WN a ton, including to the west coast, and I think I've connected at OAK once (on BNA-SNA when going to SNA helped me a lot logistically over an LAX nonstop).


Um, you can say the exact same thing for BWI. It's terrible from a geographic location for connections for anything but up and down the East coast, yet somehow Southwest really makes it work from a connecting stand point. Why OAK isn't on the list, I don't know, but it certainly isn't only due to location because if it were, Baltimore wouldn't be on the list either.


Because BWI is on the East coast, which has a majority of the US population and is closer to more larger cities. Just look at the population density in the eastern time zone. The West is much more spread out, less larger cities. Also, OAK is going to be more O/D traffic, like SFO.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
ptcflyer
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sat May 01, 2021 7:19 pm

A quick turn of the pricing dial for connecting flights vs non stop flights can reduce that percentage in very short order for passengers in Southwest's larger markets. When demand increases, and more flights are full, SW pushes more value on forcing passengers onto non-stop flights... even at less advantageous flight times ... by pricing the non-stops less than a one-stop or connecting itinerary. However, as SWA reaches out to smaller markets, that in turn will naturally lead to more connecting passengers.
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting AirporP

Sat May 01, 2021 11:47 pm

For those saying BWI is a poor connecting point, I fly Southwest almost exclusively these days for my domestic flights, out of PWM in New England. Always connecting at BWI to points South and West. Getting to California is hardly any longer than connecting in NYC, DTW, or ORD. I’ve done SJC, LAS, and SAN to PWM via BWI in under seven hours. Only about an hour longer than the quickest itineraries on UA, or DL or AA.

Just flew SJU-BWI-PWM on Thursday. 737-800 on both legs. 100 % full both flights. Mostly connecting passengers I imagine. Could have gone to the BOS for a nonstop to SJU with a three hour less travel time on another carrier, but would have been no quicker after ground transport to BOS,.

My flights to BWI out of PWM are almost always full, aside from a few early during COVID. I ,Ike to look at people bags tags at the bag claim, and it seems like most of the passenger coming thru BWI to PWM are usually connecting.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting AirporP

Sun May 02, 2021 12:01 am

pwm2txlhopper wrote:


For those saying BWI is a poor connecting point, I fly Southwest almost exclusively these days for my domestic flights, out of PWM in New England. Always connecting at BWI to points South and West. Getting to California is hardly any longer than connecting in NYC, DTW, or ORD. I’ve done SJC, LAS, and SAN to PWM via BWI in under seven hours. Only about an hour longer than the quickest itineraries on UA, or DL or AA.

Just flew SJU-BWI-PWM on Thursday. 737-800 on both legs. 100 % full both flights. Mostly connecting passengers I imagine. Could have gone to the BOS for a nonstop to SJU with a three hour less travel time on another carrier, but would have been no quicker after ground transport to BOS,.

My flights to BWI out of PWM are almost always full, aside from a few early during COVID. I ,Ike to look at people bags tags at the bag claim, and it seems like most of the passenger coming thru BWI to PWM are usually connecting.


I've connected in BWI several times myself and I live in STL. The first time I went to PWM I flew an STL-TPA-BWI then connected to PWM. The STL-TPA-BWI was $40 cheaper so being an av-geek I took the long way there. And believe it or not I was one of a dozen people flying through from STL to BWI via TPA.
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting AirporP

Sun May 02, 2021 12:09 am

OzarkD9S wrote:
pwm2txlhopper wrote:


For those saying BWI is a poor connecting point, I fly Southwest almost exclusively these days for my domestic flights, out of PWM in New England. Always connecting at BWI to points South and West. Getting to California is hardly any longer than connecting in NYC, DTW, or ORD. I’ve done SJC, LAS, and SAN to PWM via BWI in under seven hours. Only about an hour longer than the quickest itineraries on UA, or DL or AA.

Just flew SJU-BWI.


I've connected in BWI several times myself and I live in STL. The first time I went to PWM I flew an STL-TPA-BWI then connected to PWM. The STL-TPA-BWI was $40 cheaper so being an av-geek I took the long way there. And believe it or not I was one of a dozen people flying through from STL to BWI via TPA.


Yeah, I tried Frontier on LAS-MCO-PWM last year. Just to try them out because I’d never flown them. When you’re doing 600MPH, even the long route isn’t really that much longer when you have nothing else to do anyway.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting AirporP

Sun May 02, 2021 1:16 am

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Yeah, I tried Frontier on LAS-MCO-PWM last year. Just to try them out because I’d never flown them. When you’re doing 600MPH, even the long route isn’t really that much longer when you have nothing else to do anyway.


Exactly. What's a few minutes out of your way?
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
Shakinthefat
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sun May 02, 2021 2:29 am

zuckie13 wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
There just isn't the demand to run all of the point to point ones right now, so for financial reasons, more connections happen.


Sounds similar to what the major legacy carriers said after deregulation. I see WN operations a more hub-n-spoke type from here on out.
 
Italianflyer
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:06 pm

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sun May 02, 2021 3:31 am

I'm surprised STL is so down on the list. But let's get real, WN sells some pretty off the wall connections via random 'focus cities'.
Ex: a last minute SDF to LAS offered a BWI connect option. Another fun one was SDF to STL via MCO. I guess if they offer it people must be buying it.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5056
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sun May 02, 2021 4:17 am

Runway765 wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
https://simpleflying.com/southwest-transit-passengers/

Shows what 2 years and a pandemic can do to one carrier's network strategy.


1. Surprised LAS is as high as it is. I would have thought that was more of an O&D station. I would have thought PHX would be higher.

2. Wouldn't be surprised to see BNA move up to the top 5 someday.


WN has LAS down to a science. They do lots of connections rather then flying empty planes. The demand is super day of the week up and down probably more then any city in america as weekends and events are such a focus. They do lots of connections on the off days. On a friday when everyone is heading into las those flights are oversold with almost all o&d into vegas. Those same planes out of las are all connections on a Wednesday when there isn't that much demand in or out. They get to fly pretty full planes using las as a connection city when there's less demand and o&d when the demand is high. Keep the planes full
 
zuckie13
Posts: 369
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Mon May 03, 2021 1:40 pm

Shakinthefat wrote:
zuckie13 wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
There just isn't the demand to run all of the point to point ones right now, so for financial reasons, more connections happen.


Sounds similar to what the major legacy carriers said after deregulation. I see WN operations a more hub-n-spoke type from here on out.


I'm not convinced of that. Right now, instead of running two or three half empty planes to/from a destination, they're routing those passengers on connections. When demand will fill those planes again, it'll be back to business as usual.
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Mon May 03, 2021 2:27 pm

Information on the BWI can be found in the July 19, 2018 Board of Public Works transcript located at

https://bpw.maryland.gov/Pages/meetingD ... _year.aspx

Under select a year 2018 then 7/19/2018 transcript.
 
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eta unknown
Posts: 2980
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Mon May 03, 2021 2:50 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
https://simpleflying.com/southwest-transit-passengers/

Shows what 2 years and a pandemic can do to one carrier's network strategy.


1. Surprised LAS is as high as it is. I would have thought that was more of an O&D station. I would have thought PHX would be higher.

2. Wouldn't be surprised to see BNA move up to the top 5 someday.


WN has LAS down to a science. They do lots of connections rather then flying empty planes. The demand is super day of the week up and down probably more then any city in america as weekends and events are such a focus. They do lots of connections on the off days. On a friday when everyone is heading into las those flights are oversold with almost all o&d into vegas. Those same planes out of las are all connections on a Wednesday when there isn't that much demand in or out. They get to fly pretty full planes using las as a connection city when there's less demand and o&d when the demand is high. Keep the planes full


It's interesting WN has changed focus. I remember LAS Airport was on record years ago saying they didn't want transit traffic and at the time WN offered few connections via LAS. Times change...
 
Cubsrule
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Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Mon May 03, 2021 11:32 pm

eta unknown wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Runway765 wrote:

1. Surprised LAS is as high as it is. I would have thought that was more of an O&D station. I would have thought PHX would be higher.

2. Wouldn't be surprised to see BNA move up to the top 5 someday.


WN has LAS down to a science. They do lots of connections rather then flying empty planes. The demand is super day of the week up and down probably more then any city in america as weekends and events are such a focus. They do lots of connections on the off days. On a friday when everyone is heading into las those flights are oversold with almost all o&d into vegas. Those same planes out of las are all connections on a Wednesday when there isn't that much demand in or out. They get to fly pretty full planes using las as a connection city when there's less demand and o&d when the demand is high. Keep the planes full


It's interesting WN has changed focus. I remember LAS Airport was on record years ago saying they didn't want transit traffic and at the time WN offered few connections via LAS. Times change...


I can’t speak to focus, but LAS has traditionally had a 1900 bank that is quite useful to business travelers, both O&D and connecting, because it is one of the last non-redeye eastbound flights in a variety of markets.

I live in Nashville and much of the time LAS is the city in the Pacific Time Zone where I can work the fullest day if I day trip.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Vctony
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Tue May 04, 2021 3:11 am

eta unknown wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Runway765 wrote:

1. Surprised LAS is as high as it is. I would have thought that was more of an O&D station. I would have thought PHX would be higher.

2. Wouldn't be surprised to see BNA move up to the top 5 someday.


WN has LAS down to a science. They do lots of connections rather then flying empty planes. The demand is super day of the week up and down probably more then any city in america as weekends and events are such a focus. They do lots of connections on the off days. On a friday when everyone is heading into las those flights are oversold with almost all o&d into vegas. Those same planes out of las are all connections on a Wednesday when there isn't that much demand in or out. They get to fly pretty full planes using las as a connection city when there's less demand and o&d when the demand is high. Keep the planes full


It's interesting WN has changed focus. I remember LAS Airport was on record years ago saying they didn't want transit traffic and at the time WN offered few connections via LAS. Times change...


That’s probably why WN focused so heavily on DEN.
 
FSDan
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Tue May 04, 2021 3:53 am

Anecdotally, every time I've flown through LAS it's been a connecting itinerary. MKE-LAS-RNO and return on WN, TUS-LAS-RNO and return on WN, and a strange one-off MSP-LAS-SJC on DL after a misconnect in MSP.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5056
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Tue May 04, 2021 3:59 am

eta unknown wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Runway765 wrote:

1. Surprised LAS is as high as it is. I would have thought that was more of an O&D station. I would have thought PHX would be higher.

2. Wouldn't be surprised to see BNA move up to the top 5 someday.


WN has LAS down to a science. They do lots of connections rather then flying empty planes. The demand is super day of the week up and down probably more then any city in america as weekends and events are such a focus. They do lots of connections on the off days. On a friday when everyone is heading into las those flights are oversold with almost all o&d into vegas. Those same planes out of las are all connections on a Wednesday when there isn't that much demand in or out. They get to fly pretty full planes using las as a connection city when there's less demand and o&d when the demand is high. Keep the planes full


It's interesting WN has changed focus. I remember LAS Airport was on record years ago saying they didn't want transit traffic and at the time WN offered few connections via LAS. Times change...


Its how WN has to use vegas. Demand is super variable. On a friday planes into vegas are packed and flights out have little demand. Everyone wants to come into vegas but no one wants to leave. WN would be flying empty seats all over if they didn't use vegas that way. On a Tuesday there is just not that much demand either direction etc
 
ibthebigd
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Tue May 04, 2021 8:49 am

Cubsrule wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

WN has LAS down to a science. They do lots of connections rather then flying empty planes. The demand is super day of the week up and down probably more then any city in america as weekends and events are such a focus. They do lots of connections on the off days. On a friday when everyone is heading into las those flights are oversold with almost all o&d into vegas. Those same planes out of las are all connections on a Wednesday when there isn't that much demand in or out. They get to fly pretty full planes using las as a connection city when there's less demand and o&d when the demand is high. Keep the planes full


It's interesting WN has changed focus. I remember LAS Airport was on record years ago saying they didn't want transit traffic and at the time WN offered few connections via LAS. Times change...


I can’t speak to focus, but LAS has traditionally had a 1900 bank that is quite useful to business travelers, both O&D and connecting, because it is one of the last non-redeye eastbound flights in a variety of markets.

I live in Nashville and much of the time LAS is the city in the Pacific Time Zone where I can work the fullest day if I day trip.
This is why Hawaii could work well from LAS because of the 7 PM bank to places like IND BNA SDF ect.

Now would passengers book that intenary to get in at 1 AM I don't know.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Tue May 04, 2021 9:12 am

Doubt it could work in summer- temperatures in LAS too hot to make it to HNL. I remember when HA inherited the DL 767's- they couldn't be used on LAS daylight flights- only after midnight when the temperature dipped.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Tue May 04, 2021 12:46 pm

eta unknown wrote:
Doubt it could work in summer- temperatures in LAS too hot to make it to HNL. I remember when HA inherited the DL 767's- they couldn't be used on LAS daylight flights- only after midnight when the temperature dipped.

Isn’t WN getting ready to announce LAS-HNL?
 
SWADawg
Posts: 683
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:43 pm

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Tue May 04, 2021 1:06 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
Doubt it could work in summer- temperatures in LAS too hot to make it to HNL. I remember when HA inherited the DL 767's- they couldn't be used on LAS daylight flights- only after midnight when the temperature dipped.

Isn’t WN getting ready to announce LAS-HNL?

Yes. The MAX can easily make it out of LAS in the summer with a full load performance wise. The -800? Not so much.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2361
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Tue May 04, 2021 4:47 pm

eta unknown wrote:
Doubt it could work in summer- temperatures in LAS too hot to make it to HNL. I remember when HA inherited the DL 767's- they couldn't be used on LAS daylight flights- only after midnight when the temperature dipped.

Of the Half dozen or so LAS/PHX-Hawaii flights I've seen are scheduled for Mid morning and mid Evening
Times avoiding peak temperatures.
Which seems industry standard reviewing HA and AA scheduled departure times to Hawaii.

Enjoy or Don't.
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Chemist
Posts: 859
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:46 am

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Tue May 04, 2021 5:39 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
Doubt it could work in summer- temperatures in LAS too hot to make it to HNL. I remember when HA inherited the DL 767's- they couldn't be used on LAS daylight flights- only after midnight when the temperature dipped.

Of the Half dozen or so LAS/PHX-Hawaii flights I've seen are scheduled for Mid morning and mid Evening
Times avoiding peak temperatures.
Which seems industry standard reviewing HA and AA scheduled departure times to Hawaii.

Enjoy or Don't.
Flyguy


PHX is lower than LAS but even hotter, so I assume performance would potentially be a concern there as well. It's also over 100nm further from HNL.
 
PBADC3
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:34 pm

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Tue May 04, 2021 7:21 pm

For those questioning BWI for WN, they are in many ways running a very similar footprint to PI/US back in the day. Let’s cherry pick for a second and look at a mid-May Thursday and the first bank of departures and what’s feeding it vs. not.

Inbound: ALB BOS MHT ISP ROC BUF CLE PVD BDL DTW ORF CMH PIT IND PWM CVG SDF MDW BNA TPA
Connects outbound to: STL PVD MSY PBI RDU BOS CHS SAT PNS JAX SRQ AUA ECP MCI SDF MBJ MHT SAN CUN PUJ MKE AUS SJU CLT MIA LAX SAV MCO DEN MDW MSY ORD

Very clearly a N->S directional bank with a couple of obviously local trips mixed in. We can see the same dynamics at play at virtually any of the large WN “airports of concentration” like MDW, DAL, STL, BNA, PHX, LAS and so forth. This pattern existed as well prior to the Pandemic, but was a bit obscured by a larger local market schedule and one stops. This isn’t new, it’s just become much more obvious and black and white in comparison to the traditionally networked airlines.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Wed May 05, 2021 3:26 am

Italianflyer wrote:
I'm surprised STL is so down on the list. But let's get real, WN sells some pretty off the wall connections via random 'focus cities'.
Ex: a last minute SDF to LAS offered a BWI connect option. Another fun one was SDF to STL via MCO. I guess if they offer it people must be buying it.

Last minute stuff can lead to some pretty weird routings, especially if it's IROPS. When I was a WN CSA in DEN, I had people misconnect heading to IND on the last nonstop of the day. The option I resorted to for them since a STL or MDW option weren't viable was to send them to MCO for an overnight then off to IND first thing in the morning. MCO-IND was actually the first WN arrival into IND for that day around 0700 I believe. They were very cool about the offering and took me up on it.

Some not so cool customers I had for a last minute connection were some people coming from STL to get to SEA. My sup told my ops agent to pull the jetbridges and close the flight while these people were at the gate fighting with me and my sup. Fighting with me so much that they were almost yelling at me to find another seat and I told them there weren't any because the flight had closed and was as good as gone. Somehow there was an extra LAS segment that night and I managed to get the group of 9 on the flight to LAS then I had to split to a group of 4 and another of 5 to SEA. One group went nonstop and the other went via SMF. Low and behold, a couple hours later the FO of the LAS flight called fatigue and me and other CSAs had to deal with reaccomodating that flight and guess which group of people came up to me... They were insinuating it was my fault and blah blah blah and wanted compensation for a wx delay (inbound came in late) and that they were going to fly another airline blah blah blah. Upon the second try of rebooking, I found the only viable way was to send them on DEN-BWI-SEA. They were totally not happy with that. I believe they ended up flying DL via blah

Last outstanding last minute work around was when DEN had a nasty windstorm which messed everything up. A customer came up to me at the counter trying to get to LAX. His first flight cancelled and everything was oversold. I offered DEN-BNA-LAX which he gladly took and he totally understood because turns out he was a former airline employee for Arik Air.

Another stand out is when I had a girl totally flip and start crying when I offered DEN-PHX-EWR with an overnight in PHX when DEN-LGA cancelled. She waivered so long over the last remaining seat until she for some reason had to consult her parents. I had her go to the side since I had a while planes worth of pax to work with. I offered the guy after her the same thing and he gladly took that last seat.

Moral of the story is, when you have a paid ticket, the staff will bend over backwards for you provided you do your part and don't act outrageous. Be happy you're still getting there.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2361
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Wed May 05, 2021 12:50 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Italianflyer wrote:
I'm surprised STL is so down on the list. But let's get real, WN sells some pretty off the wall connections via random 'focus cities'.
Ex: a last minute SDF to LAS offered a BWI connect option. Another fun one was SDF to STL via MCO. I guess if they offer it people must be buying it.

Last minute stuff can lead to some pretty weird routings, especially if it's IROPS. When I was a WN CSA in DEN, I had people misconnect heading to IND on the last nonstop of the day. The option I resorted to for them since a STL or MDW option weren't viable was to send them to MCO for an overnight then off to IND first thing in the morning. MCO-IND was actually the first WN arrival into IND for that day around 0700 I believe. They were very cool about the offering and took me up on it.

Some not so cool customers I had for a last minute connection were some people coming from STL to get to SEA. My sup told my ops agent to pull the jetbridges and close the flight while these people were at the gate fighting with me and my sup. Fighting with me so much that they were almost yelling at me to find another seat and I told them there weren't any because the flight had closed and was as good as gone. Somehow there was an extra LAS segment that night and I managed to get the group of 9 on the flight to LAS then I had to split to a group of 4 and another of 5 to SEA. One group went nonstop and the other went via SMF. Low and behold, a couple hours later the FO of the LAS flight called fatigue and me and other CSAs had to deal with reaccomodating that flight and guess which group of people came up to me... They were insinuating it was my fault and blah blah blah and wanted compensation for a wx delay (inbound came in late) and that they were going to fly another airline blah blah blah. Upon the second try of rebooking, I found the only viable way was to send them on DEN-BWI-SEA. They were totally not happy with that. I believe they ended up flying DL via blah

Last outstanding last minute work around was when DEN had a nasty windstorm which messed everything up. A customer came up to me at the counter trying to get to LAX. His first flight cancelled and everything was oversold. I offered DEN-BNA-LAX which he gladly took and he totally understood because turns out he was a former airline employee for Arik Air.

Another stand out is when I had a girl totally flip and start crying when I offered DEN-PHX-EWR with an overnight in PHX when DEN-LGA cancelled. She waivered so long over the last remaining seat until she for some reason had to consult her parents. I had her go to the side since I had a while planes worth of pax to work with. I offered the guy after her the same thing and he gladly took that last seat.

Moral of the story is, when you have a paid ticket, the staff will bend over backwards for you provided you do your part and don't act outrageous. Be happy you're still getting there.


Awesome shares.
When I was a WN Ops agent back in my day in Orange County during the historical LAX tracon fire.
Our last SJC and LAS flights weren't going to make the dreadful 10pm curfew that the airport wasn't willing to budge even with that ATC mess.
I noticed that between the last 4 scheduled flights including a OAK and PHX flight we had a total 244 passengers. I called Dispatch and convinced them to add 2 separate flag stops by combining flights.
They ended up flying one flight SNA-SJC-OAK and the other SNA-LAS-PHX getting all the passengers to there destinations that night. My plan allowed dispatch to cancel the 2 delayed outbound Flights allowing us to have enough scheduled RON for the night and recover operations the next morning.
Almost everyone was happy with my outside looking in problem solving plan. A few OAK and PHX passengers wrote Nasty letters to WN for the extras stops. But the good letters from the LAS and SJC passengers helped me bring to light the win win situation for my I.R. I had to complete for HDQ explaining the situation since it was obvious that WN Complaint letter department and the good letter department didn't talk to each other in HDQ.
The most upset 10 people about the situation were the flight crews from each of the cancelled flight because they both ended up with a unscheduled overnight in SNA vs ending up back in there domiciles later that night.

Unscheduled overnight Karma would later come back to haunt me many times as flight attendant being the short stick recipient to accommodate operational needs.

Can't win them all!

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!

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