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lightsaber
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Tue May 04, 2021 4:55 am

Please discuss the new airline, branding, features of service. This is not A vs. B.

Please post links for factual information.
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Tue May 04, 2021 6:44 am

I am quite curious which target market is Super Air jet targeting? Those well-informed millennials who are tech savvy would most probably know Lion Air is dodgy and would avoid it like a plague. Indonesia aviation market is very saturated with many airlines. Even GA deployed widebody on many trunk domestic routes at peak. Would this new airline be sustainable knowing that Lion Air Group debt leverage is very high?
 
VSMUT
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Tue May 04, 2021 6:58 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
I am quite curious which target market is Super Air jet targeting? Those well-informed millennials who are tech savvy would most probably know Lion Air is dodgy and would avoid it like a plague. Indonesia aviation market is very saturated with many airlines. Even GA deployed widebody on many trunk domestic routes at peak. Would this new airline be sustainable knowing that Lion Air Group debt leverage is very high?


I am a millennial myself, and I can't for the life of me understand how airlines try to target my age bracket with these brands. We are extremely tech-savvy, we know how to look up all airlines, not just Joon and Super Air Jet. In this day and age, all airlines have websites and appear on travel sites.
 
Baruch
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Tue May 04, 2021 7:18 am

jbs2886 wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

Honestly, I highly doubt the contracts are that easy to get around. Lessors certainly would have hedged against mechanisms like these to skirt lease requirements.


Contracts can be pretty strong but Lion Air has a history of pushing back or ignoring. The lessors option is to sue, a time consuming and expensive. In the current market, it’s better to find a way to work with one of the larger airlines.


I'm not disputing that - certainly other factors can impact what actually happens (I'm a corporate lawyer). I'm just saying the contracts won't be as easy to get around as suggested.


My view is that contracts rely on a functioning market to prevent this sort of behaviour. Pre-Covid, demand for aircraft was strong and had Lion stopped paying, lessors could have taken back a meaningful number of aircraft and placed them elsewhere. Uncooperative behaviour would have also resulted in diminished access to the leasing market and/or huge risk premia embedded in the leases thereafter.

Currently, Lion is too big to fail both for the leasing sector in general and for certain individual lessors. Grounding aircraft is useless, and so is taking them back. Lessors are incentivised to cut a deal with Lion, and even more so given that the airline is offering to help them out by taking some of their excess capacity.

At least one lessor has agreed to this, and I am sure that this has increased its competitors’ willingness to entertain this proposal for fear of missing out. Lessors that hold out could be left with a claim against the old, hollowed-out Lion, which ultimately is not worth much.

I am not a lawyer and I have not read all Lion’s contracts, but I have first-hand exposure to this, and this is a plausible interpretation of what is going on.

For context, it is also important to add that Indonesia seems to be a tricky jurisdiction, and that there may be other factors at play for lessors. For instance, a lot of them have been funding themselves on capital markets where investors might look at a simple metric such as the percentage of your aircraft that is on the ground. Placing aircraft with Lion can be helpful in this context.
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Tue May 04, 2021 9:57 am

Speaking of Malindo, is it really true that they were struggling? I was under the impression that they were doing just fine, at least pre-COVID.

Devilfish wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:
Given what happened to Interjet, ordering SSJs now sounds like a financial kiss of death.

What happened to 4O even with their mixed fleet was internal to the airline. Can you suggest a more affordable type for CU other than the SSJ and would OEMs and lenders trust them with more of their products, especially with the sanction regime in effect?


This is slightly off-topic to this thread but I think it's been heavily suggested (at least on this site) that the SSJs were a major factor in Interjet's troubles, with the poor aftermarket servicing to the point of cannibalizing aircraft being widely known at this point. And I'm not sure why you suddenly brought up CU, I thought we were talking about SAJ and Interjet...
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CRJockey
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Tue May 04, 2021 10:01 am

asuflyer wrote:
The founders of Lion Air have decided to create a new airline within Indonesia. The first aircraft is a ex-Indigo A320 registered PK-SAJ and has been painted in a white and gold livery. Not much is known yet about this company and what its routes will be and whether it will replace Lion Air on routes or operate independently. A unique livery and modern athleisure style crew uniforms have been presented.

Image

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -indonesia
https://twitter.com/indoflyer/status/13 ... 3230697472


Not sure I like Lion Air culture founding new airlines. But I do like the uniforms. It is a bit different and not the same old boring costumes for the girls and half suit for the guys.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Tue May 04, 2021 11:19 am

Cabin photo here: https://www.instagram.com/p/COZ2FHJBMMr ... 6ba16r0hk5

Doesn't exude any millennials' vibes... AT ALL...lol
 
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Polot
Posts: 11708
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Tue May 04, 2021 11:25 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Cabin photo here: https://www.instagram.com/p/COZ2FHJBMMr ... 6ba16r0hk5

Doesn't exude any millennials' vibes... AT ALL...lol

Stick an airfone in the back of the middle seat and you can pitch it to millennials as a nostalgic taste of their childhood flights in the 90s!
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Tue May 04, 2021 12:55 pm

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Speaking of Malindo, is it really true that they were struggling? I was under the impression that they were doing just fine, at least pre-COVID.

Devilfish wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:
Given what happened to Interjet, ordering SSJs now sounds like a financial kiss of death.

What happened to 4O even with their mixed fleet was internal to the airline. Can you suggest a more affordable type for CU other than the SSJ and would OEMs and lenders trust them with more of their products, especially with the sanction regime in effect?


This is slightly off-topic to this thread but I think it's been heavily suggested (at least on this site) that the SSJs were a major factor in Interjet's troubles, with the poor aftermarket servicing to the point of cannibalizing aircraft being widely known at this point. And I'm not sure why you suddenly brought up CU, I thought we were talking about SAJ and Interjet...

Malindo has neither make any profits nor break even since its existence. It aimed to be profitable in three years in an interview done in 2018. Guess we know the rest of the story. https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/ ... in-3-years

So long sugar daddy in Indonesia is willing to throw more money into the bottomless pit, who cares about balance sheet.......
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Tue May 04, 2021 12:59 pm

Polot wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Cabin photo here: https://www.instagram.com/p/COZ2FHJBMMr ... 6ba16r0hk5

Doesn't exude any millennials' vibes... AT ALL...lol

Stick an airfone in the back of the middle seat and you can pitch it to millennials as a nostalgic taste of their childhood flights in the 90s!

Hahahahaha.........laughing so much at this! Thanks mate!
 
ScottB
Posts: 7345
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Tue May 04, 2021 2:14 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
This isn't a discussion on safety, it's a discussion of a rebrand.


To be fair, rebrands in the airline industry are often connected to safety. ValuJet's purchase of AirTran and subsequent rebrand was absolutely a direct consequence of J7's poor reputation and the crash of flight 592. Given Lion's questionable record, it seems reasonable to raise whether or not its reputation is one of the factors driving this rebrand.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 838
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Wed May 05, 2021 7:04 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Cabin photo here: https://www.instagram.com/p/COZ2FHJBMMr ... 6ba16r0hk5

Doesn't exude any millennials' vibes... AT ALL...lol


It exudes safari to me.

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