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asuflyer
Topic Author
Posts: 745
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Sun May 02, 2021 2:50 pm

The founders of Lion Air have decided to create a new airline within Indonesia. The first aircraft is a ex-Indigo A320 registered PK-SAJ and has been painted in a white and gold livery. Not much is known yet about this company and what its routes will be and whether it will replace Lion Air on routes or operate independently. A unique livery and modern athleisure style crew uniforms have been presented.

Image

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -indonesia
https://twitter.com/indoflyer/status/13 ... 3230697472
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4215
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Sun May 02, 2021 3:00 pm

Lion needs to focus on improving their safety culture and training their existing employees not creating new airlines.
 
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SASViking
Posts: 496
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:06 pm

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Sun May 02, 2021 3:20 pm

"Modern uniforms"
I don't want to be rude, but the crew looks like a bunch of prisoners on the run
Types flown: A319, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A343, AT43, AT75, AT76, B717, B732, B735, B736, B737, B738, B752, B753, CRJ9, DC10, DH4D, DHC3, E135, E145, E175, E190, E195, F100, MD11, MD81, MD82, MD87, RJ1H
 
as739x
Posts: 5250
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Sun May 02, 2021 3:23 pm

Not sure what is so unique about the livery.

usflyer msp wrote:
Lion needs to focus on improving their safety culture and training their existing employees not creating new airlines.


Agreed!!
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
blooc350
Posts: 203
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Sun May 02, 2021 3:48 pm

Give it some time, it'll over run some runway in Indonesia.
 
Someone83
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Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Sun May 02, 2021 3:49 pm

But is the the Lion Air Group that is starting a new airline, or just the same guys behind it?
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5498
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Sun May 02, 2021 3:53 pm

blooc350 wrote:
Give it some time, it'll over run some runway in Indonesia.


Believe it or not, the A320 series has been almost completely free from runway excursions in Lion Group. It's the 737s that run off the runways.


Someone83 wrote:
But is the the Lion Air Group that is starting a new airline, or just the same guys behind it?


Wikipedia already says part of Lion Group:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_Air_Group
Last edited by VSMUT on Sun May 02, 2021 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
travaz
Posts: 1089
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Sun May 02, 2021 3:54 pm

The Livery screams "hurry up and make something up!" Totally underwhelming.
 
Diverskii
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:31 pm

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Sun May 02, 2021 4:01 pm

Taking bets on which runway this aircraft will overrun first...
 
kelval
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:09 pm

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Sun May 02, 2021 4:06 pm

SASViking wrote:
"Modern uniforms"
I don't want to be rude, but the crew looks like a bunch of prisoners on the run

My thoughts exactly.
You're ripping the wordds out of my mind :D .
 
TexasAirCorp
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:24 pm

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Sun May 02, 2021 4:19 pm

Lion already owns Batik Air which has a much better reputation. If they're simply trying to escape their safety record, why not just merge Lion with Batik? Am I missing something?
 
DartHerald
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:08 pm

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Sun May 02, 2021 4:30 pm

Interesting that they have chosen the A320 for the new airline, not the 737NG of which Lion Air have far more. Does it denote the beginnings of a seismic shift?
 
NZ321
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Sun May 02, 2021 4:32 pm

I suggest this extension of the already questionable Lion Air is permitted to only land at airports in Indonesia. International should be no go! How do Indonesia or indeed the wider Indo-Malay community expect to be taken seriously with this sort of nonsense? Indeed, Lion Air already has a base in Malaysia under Malaysia's oversight: Malindo, whose own safety record ain't so flash either. All in all, a disaster in the making. How many more Lion Air crashes do we need to witness before we recognise that this is a failed model? Those endorsing these mechanisms of travel ought to be held accountable.
Plane mad!
 
VSMUT
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Sun May 02, 2021 4:58 pm

DartHerald wrote:
Interesting that they have chosen the A320 for the new airline, not the 737NG of which Lion Air have far more. Does it denote the beginnings of a seismic shift?


That happened a while ago. Lion Air flies the 737NG and A330-300 and -900. Thai Lion has the 737NG. Wings Air is all ATR. Malindo is ATR and 737NG. The Batik brand is replacing Malindo with an all A32X fleet, and currently fly the A320/321 and a handful of 737NGs. According to Wikipedia, Batik Air has 45 A320s and another 190 on order. For comparison, the group also has orders for 240 737MAX.
 
jmscsc
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:09 pm

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Sun May 02, 2021 10:11 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Lion needs to focus on improving their safety culture and training their existing employees not creating new airlines.


I couldn't agree with you more!
 
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ClipperMonsoon
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:45 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Sun May 02, 2021 10:46 pm

blooc350 wrote:
Give it some time, it'll over run some runway in Indonesia.


Thats uncalled for, for all the 737 overruns, find me one that was the aircrafts fault, most of overruns are pure pilot error, or bad runway conditons, landing with tailwinds, unstable approaches, etc, operated properly, these overruns would not occur at the rate they do, but make no mistake its happened before with the A320's but not the fault of the aircraft either, mostly its lack of proper procedures on approach
The true Queen of the Skies the Boeing 707-321B
 
sxf24
Posts: 1194
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Sun May 02, 2021 10:51 pm

DartHerald wrote:
Interesting that they have chosen the A320 for the new airline, not the 737NG of which Lion Air have far more. Does it denote the beginnings of a seismic shift?


Ex-Indigo A320s are available very cheap, right now less than $100K/month. Taking these airplanes is an opportunity for Lion to pick up very cheap airplane and “help” the lessors it’s not paying on other aircraft.
 
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spinkid
Posts: 1918
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 1:14 am

SASViking wrote:
"Modern uniforms"
I don't want to be rude, but the crew looks like a bunch of prisoners on the run


I imagine the bags are packed with more matching jumpsuits and matching Nikes.
Who chooses Beige as their color?
oh, the people who name their airline "Super Air Jet"...........I wonder if they did market research focus groups with people comparing other names

Super Happy Fun Jet
Super Happy Fun Time Jet
Super Fun Happy Jet
Air Super Jet
Air Super Jet Airlines

Feel free to use those in any RP games you may participate in.
 
santi319
Posts: 1133
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 1:16 am

Soo if they get Sukhois they will be Super Air Jet Superjets? D:
 
filipinoavgeek
Posts: 662
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:18 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 1:17 am

What's the point of starting yet another new airline when they already have Batik? Is this like Ryanair/Lauda where Lion wants to operate A320s but for some reason doesn't want to fly them under the main brand?
RIP 9V-SKA
2007 - 2019
 
a320fan
Posts: 929
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:04 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 1:18 am

The crew look like they’re about to go on safari.
A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A350-900, A380, 737-700, 737-800, 777-200ER, 777-300, 777-300ER, 787-8, Q300, Q400
 
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zkojq
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Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 1:25 am

ClipperMonsoon wrote:
or bad runway conditons


Uhhh welcome to Asia...
First to fly the 787-9
 
WN732
Posts: 996
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 1:48 am

If they don't improve their safety record it's going to be Super Air Crash Jet.

But really I do hope things turn around for them and they start this new airline with proper training and a good safety culture.
 
dstblj52
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 2:24 am

WN732 wrote:
If they don't improve their safety record it's going to be Super Air Crash Jet.

But really I do hope things turn around for them and they start this new airline with proper training and a good safety culture.

That's easy they won't a safety culture costs money, much easier just to pay the elevated insurance rates for the occasional write off and until the national authorities do something their going to keep that attitude
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 352
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 2:32 am

Interesting development....... I have been following the said new airline for some time and saw the A320 delivery via KLIA on IG few weeks ago. While details were sketchy at first, however there was a rumour going around few months back that Rusdi is seeking to dis-associate himself with Lion Air Group, not thanks to all the bad publicity he was getting from all the crashes and incidents. He was also trying limit his liabilities in paying all the lease bills associated with his large Group. The local authority has grown wary of the Group financial health which affects the safety culture of the company. The Group took a lot of gamble in the region but ended up burning itself badly.

Malindo Air in Malaysia is in the ICU. They have retrenched 2,000 out of 3,200 staff last year, leaving about 1,000 staff working on contractual basis. Now operating on barebone ATR fleet via Subang Airport in West Malaysia. They have returned most of their B737NG fleet to its parent company last year, mostly inducted into their Batik Air Indonesia as those B737NG come with J and Y class. The question on whether they will return to jet operation is a huge question mark as one of their JV partner NADI had divested their 51% share to their ex-CEO Chandran Rama Muthy and his wife. He went on to become Lion Air Group group strategic director in August 2019. The remaining B737NG fleet are currently parked at KUL, gathering dust. With NADI out, they were trying to rebrand to Batik Air Malaysia, to copy-and-paste same operation style as those in Indonesia. However, CAAM has prohibited them to do so until they could get their house sorted. End result is what you see now, some B737NG with Batik Air livery but Malindo wordings, others just simply Malindo. The local corporate world knew what was Malindo's real hidden secret well, Malindo Air was the "previous PM plan to antagonize AirAsia Group near monopoly of the local aviation market", but this was never proven. While having choices were good for consumers, however it came with consequences. The fares were dirt cheap to an extent that it was simply unsustainable. it was fortunate that they did not proceed with Batik Air Malaysia long haul plan with A330neo......

As for Thai Lion Air, they have a mixed result. They did well in domestic run, giving Thai Airways, Thai Smile and Nok Air a run for their money. Again they went up against Thai AirAsia which already has a strong foothold on domestic market, they managed to increase their market share as TG, WE and DD stumbled in their strategy. However they were less lucky on their medium-long haul front. With the border closure, their A330ceo/neo operation has effectively ended last year during the pandemic peak. Even during their pre-COVID19 era, it was struggling to make money as Thai AirAsia X has a better and wider coverage. All their A330neo and ceo have been returned to Indonesia.

In all, Lion Air Group should really make effort in focusing their attention to their home ground Indonesia. Build on safety and quality before dabbling in everything else. Airbus and Boeing should take considerable effort to assist them too (I think they did to limited extent), rather than just selling bucketloads of new airframes to them. Of course, this will only work with Rusdi is willing to take the first step in right direction. Indonesia is a very big country with weather that changes very fast, typical of tropical monsoon climate. Airport infrastructure remains a challenge in outskirts cities, the local and central government have been heavily investing over the past decades to bring them up to standard, that being said any pilots in Indonesia should be well trained to handle the local weather, something Lion Air Indonesia and its subsidiary and many other smaller airlines are clearly lacking now.
Last edited by RoyalBrunei757 on Mon May 03, 2021 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
smokeybandit
Posts: 1537
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:24 pm

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 2:36 am

SASViking wrote:
"Modern uniforms"
I don't want to be rude, but the crew looks like a bunch of prisoners on the run


I was thinking 1950s pajamas
 
LAXLHR
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:07 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 3:30 am

MESS!

Same airline, same "PILOTS" that can barely fly a plane. No thank you.
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA KL

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 330s 340s 350 380
 
avier
Posts: 1252
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 5:51 am

This shady airline grouping creates new ventures every few years, as a means to escape all the wrongdoings and negative image of the parent co. Won't be suprised if they create five more airlines over the next few years with random airline names and a different business model as means to justify setting up the new venture.
This reminds me of those products on online shopping sites, that relist their products under different brand names or as new listings, when their older one's receive too much negative reviews.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7433
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 6:14 am

spinkid wrote:
oh, the people who name their airline "Super Air Jet"...........I wonder if they did market research focus groups with people comparing other names


I suspect "Super Safe Jet" was rejected by the advertising standards authorities. Do not taunt Super Air Jet.

Honestly the name is reminiscent of t-shirts sold in countries where the population knows a bit of English -- and yet what's printed on the shirt is just absolute nonsense to a native English speaker. Or conversely, the decision by Americans to have Chinese characters tattooed on their bodies without knowing for certain the actual meanings of those characters.
 
dstblj52
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 6:14 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Interesting development....... I have been following the said new airline for some time and saw the A320 delivery via KLIA on IG few weeks ago. While details were sketchy at first, however there was a rumour going around few months back that Rusdi is seeking to dis-associate himself with Lion Air Group, not thanks to all the bad publicity he was getting from all the crashes and incidents. He was also trying limit his liabilities in paying all the lease bills associated with his large Group. The local authority has grown wary of the Group financial health which affects the safety culture of the company. The Group took a lot of gamble in the region but ended up burning itself badly.

Malindo Air in Malaysia is in the ICU. They have retrenched 2,000 out of 3,200 staff last year, leaving about 1,000 staff working on contractual basis. Now operating on barebone ATR fleet via Subang Airport in West Malaysia. They have returned most of their B737NG fleet to its parent company last year, mostly inducted into their Batik Air Indonesia as those B737NG come with J and Y class. The question on whether they will return to jet operation is a huge question mark as one of their JV partner NADI had divested their 51% share to their ex-CEO Chandran Rama Muthy and his wife. He went on to become Lion Air Group group strategic director in August 2019. The remaining B737NG fleet are currently parked at KUL, gathering dust. With NADI out, they were trying to rebrand to Batik Air Malaysia, to copy-and-paste same operation style as those in Indonesia. However, CAAM has prohibited them to do so until they could get their house sorted. End result is what you see now, some B737NG with Batik Air livery but Malindo wordings, others just simply Malindo. The local corporate world knew what was Malindo's real hidden secret well, Malindo Air was the "previous PM plan to antagonize AirAsia Group near monopoly of the local aviation market", but this was never proven. While having choices were good for consumers, however it came with consequences. The fares were dirt cheap to an extent that it was simply unsustainable. it was fortunate that they did not proceed with Batik Air Malaysia long haul plan with A330neo......

As for Thai Lion Air, they have a mixed result. They did well in domestic run, giving Thai Airways, Thai Smile and Nok Air a run for their money. Again they went up against Thai AirAsia which already has a strong foothold on domestic market, they managed to increase their market share as TG, WE and DD stumbled in their strategy. However they were less lucky on their medium-long haul front. With the border closure, their A330ceo/neo operation has effectively ended last year during the pandemic peak. Even during their pre-COVID19 era, it was struggling to make money as Thai AirAsia X has a better and wider coverage. All their A330neo and ceo have been returned to Indonesia.

In all, Lion Air Group should really make effort in focusing their attention to their home ground Indonesia. Build on safety and quality before dabbling in everything else. Airbus and Boeing should take considerable effort to assist them too (I think they did to limited extent), rather than just selling bucketloads of new airframes to them. Of course, this will only work with Rusdi is willing to take the first step in right direction. Indonesia is a very big country with weather that changes very fast, typical of tropical monsoon climate. Airport infrastructure remains a challenge in outskirts cities, the local and central government have been heavily investing over the past decades to bring them up to standard, that being said any pilots in Indonesia should be well trained to handle the local weather, something Lion Air Indonesia and its subsidiary and many other smaller airlines are clearly lacking now.

What should airbus and Boeing do exactly both offer training for pilots getting type rating, maintenace software, maintenance programs, the whole 9 but lion continually refuses them
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5498
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 7:26 am

dstblj52 wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Interesting development....... I have been following the said new airline for some time and saw the A320 delivery via KLIA on IG few weeks ago. While details were sketchy at first, however there was a rumour going around few months back that Rusdi is seeking to dis-associate himself with Lion Air Group, not thanks to all the bad publicity he was getting from all the crashes and incidents. He was also trying limit his liabilities in paying all the lease bills associated with his large Group. The local authority has grown wary of the Group financial health which affects the safety culture of the company. The Group took a lot of gamble in the region but ended up burning itself badly.

Malindo Air in Malaysia is in the ICU. They have retrenched 2,000 out of 3,200 staff last year, leaving about 1,000 staff working on contractual basis. Now operating on barebone ATR fleet via Subang Airport in West Malaysia. They have returned most of their B737NG fleet to its parent company last year, mostly inducted into their Batik Air Indonesia as those B737NG come with J and Y class. The question on whether they will return to jet operation is a huge question mark as one of their JV partner NADI had divested their 51% share to their ex-CEO Chandran Rama Muthy and his wife. He went on to become Lion Air Group group strategic director in August 2019. The remaining B737NG fleet are currently parked at KUL, gathering dust. With NADI out, they were trying to rebrand to Batik Air Malaysia, to copy-and-paste same operation style as those in Indonesia. However, CAAM has prohibited them to do so until they could get their house sorted. End result is what you see now, some B737NG with Batik Air livery but Malindo wordings, others just simply Malindo. The local corporate world knew what was Malindo's real hidden secret well, Malindo Air was the "previous PM plan to antagonize AirAsia Group near monopoly of the local aviation market", but this was never proven. While having choices were good for consumers, however it came with consequences. The fares were dirt cheap to an extent that it was simply unsustainable. it was fortunate that they did not proceed with Batik Air Malaysia long haul plan with A330neo......

As for Thai Lion Air, they have a mixed result. They did well in domestic run, giving Thai Airways, Thai Smile and Nok Air a run for their money. Again they went up against Thai AirAsia which already has a strong foothold on domestic market, they managed to increase their market share as TG, WE and DD stumbled in their strategy. However they were less lucky on their medium-long haul front. With the border closure, their A330ceo/neo operation has effectively ended last year during the pandemic peak. Even during their pre-COVID19 era, it was struggling to make money as Thai AirAsia X has a better and wider coverage. All their A330neo and ceo have been returned to Indonesia.

In all, Lion Air Group should really make effort in focusing their attention to their home ground Indonesia. Build on safety and quality before dabbling in everything else. Airbus and Boeing should take considerable effort to assist them too (I think they did to limited extent), rather than just selling bucketloads of new airframes to them. Of course, this will only work with Rusdi is willing to take the first step in right direction. Indonesia is a very big country with weather that changes very fast, typical of tropical monsoon climate. Airport infrastructure remains a challenge in outskirts cities, the local and central government have been heavily investing over the past decades to bring them up to standard, that being said any pilots in Indonesia should be well trained to handle the local weather, something Lion Air Indonesia and its subsidiary and many other smaller airlines are clearly lacking now.

What should airbus and Boeing do exactly both offer training for pilots getting type rating, maintenace software, maintenance programs, the whole 9 but lion continually refuses them


They have had westerners flying for them and training local crews. You can pour endless amounts of training into an organisation, but if the management doesn't follow proper safety principles, then it will all be wasted. It all starts from the top.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 352
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 7:35 am

VSMUT wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Interesting development....... I have been following the said new airline for some time and saw the A320 delivery via KLIA on IG few weeks ago. While details were sketchy at first, however there was a rumour going around few months back that Rusdi is seeking to dis-associate himself with Lion Air Group, not thanks to all the bad publicity he was getting from all the crashes and incidents. He was also trying limit his liabilities in paying all the lease bills associated with his large Group. The local authority has grown wary of the Group financial health which affects the safety culture of the company. The Group took a lot of gamble in the region but ended up burning itself badly.

Malindo Air in Malaysia is in the ICU. They have retrenched 2,000 out of 3,200 staff last year, leaving about 1,000 staff working on contractual basis. Now operating on barebone ATR fleet via Subang Airport in West Malaysia. They have returned most of their B737NG fleet to its parent company last year, mostly inducted into their Batik Air Indonesia as those B737NG come with J and Y class. The question on whether they will return to jet operation is a huge question mark as one of their JV partner NADI had divested their 51% share to their ex-CEO Chandran Rama Muthy and his wife. He went on to become Lion Air Group group strategic director in August 2019. The remaining B737NG fleet are currently parked at KUL, gathering dust. With NADI out, they were trying to rebrand to Batik Air Malaysia, to copy-and-paste same operation style as those in Indonesia. However, CAAM has prohibited them to do so until they could get their house sorted. End result is what you see now, some B737NG with Batik Air livery but Malindo wordings, others just simply Malindo. The local corporate world knew what was Malindo's real hidden secret well, Malindo Air was the "previous PM plan to antagonize AirAsia Group near monopoly of the local aviation market", but this was never proven. While having choices were good for consumers, however it came with consequences. The fares were dirt cheap to an extent that it was simply unsustainable. it was fortunate that they did not proceed with Batik Air Malaysia long haul plan with A330neo......

As for Thai Lion Air, they have a mixed result. They did well in domestic run, giving Thai Airways, Thai Smile and Nok Air a run for their money. Again they went up against Thai AirAsia which already has a strong foothold on domestic market, they managed to increase their market share as TG, WE and DD stumbled in their strategy. However they were less lucky on their medium-long haul front. With the border closure, their A330ceo/neo operation has effectively ended last year during the pandemic peak. Even during their pre-COVID19 era, it was struggling to make money as Thai AirAsia X has a better and wider coverage. All their A330neo and ceo have been returned to Indonesia.

In all, Lion Air Group should really make effort in focusing their attention to their home ground Indonesia. Build on safety and quality before dabbling in everything else. Airbus and Boeing should take considerable effort to assist them too (I think they did to limited extent), rather than just selling bucketloads of new airframes to them. Of course, this will only work with Rusdi is willing to take the first step in right direction. Indonesia is a very big country with weather that changes very fast, typical of tropical monsoon climate. Airport infrastructure remains a challenge in outskirts cities, the local and central government have been heavily investing over the past decades to bring them up to standard, that being said any pilots in Indonesia should be well trained to handle the local weather, something Lion Air Indonesia and its subsidiary and many other smaller airlines are clearly lacking now.

What should airbus and Boeing do exactly both offer training for pilots getting type rating, maintenace software, maintenance programs, the whole 9 but lion continually refuses them


They have had westerners flying for them and training local crews. You can pour endless amounts of training into an organisation, but if the management doesn't follow proper safety principles, then it will all be wasted. It all starts from the top.

Yes indeed, totally agree with you. As what I have stated in my post, if only Rusdi is willing to take the first step in the right direction. Pardon me, even the then-President of France François Hollande attended Lion Air Group's 234 A320 family order signing ceremony and US then-President Barack Obama for 230 B737 family order, completely turned a blind eye on their horrid safety record and Rusdi was awarded Légion d'Honneur. o.0
 
pythoniels
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:54 pm

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 8:05 am

DartHerald wrote:
Interesting that they have chosen the A320 for the new airline, not the 737NG of which Lion Air have far more. Does it denote the beginnings of a seismic shift?
Batik Air is also a Lion Air company, and they also operate with A320s, along the 738/739.

Hope they will have a better safety record than Lion Air itself.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 352
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 8:34 am

Just to bring some members to-to-date if some are unaware the sprawling empire of Rusdi:
1. Batik Air- A320ceo/neo and B737-800/900 - full service carrier, domestic and regional routes within Asia and Australia
2. Batik Air Malaysia - B737NG - experimental full service carrier, domestic routes within Malaysia. Did not attain approval for operation, being folded back into mainline Malindo Air
3. Lion Air - A330-300ceo/900neo, B737-800/900 and B737-MAX8/9 - low fare carrier within Indonesia and regional routes within Asia and Australia
4. Malindo Air - ATR 72, B737-800/900 - hybrid carrier within Malaysia and regional routes within Asia and Australia
5. Super Air Jet - A320ceo - "a low cost airline business model focused on tech-obsessed millennials with a propensity to travel" - Only God knows what they mean.......
6. Thai Lion Air- B737-800/900 and B737-MAX9 - low fare carrier within Thailand and regional routes within Asia and Australia
7. Wings Air - ATR 72 - low fare commuter passenger carrier within Indonesia

Fleet check:
234 order for A320 family
109 A320neo - Delivered -1
65 A321neo - Delivered - None
60 A320ceo - Delivered - 44

10 order for A330-300
Delivered - 6

10 order for A330-900
Delivered - 6

230 order for Boeing 737NG/MAX family (201 MAX, 29 NG)
201 MAX - Delivered 13
29 NG - Delivered

50 order for Boeing B737-MAX10
Delivered - None

30 order for Boeing 737NG -900ER
All delivered

60 order for Boeing 737NG -800/900ER mix
All delivered

70 order for ATR 72 -500/600 mix
Delivered - 67

Might left out some, feel free to correct me.
 
DartHerald
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:08 pm

Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 9:34 am

WN732 wrote:
If they don't improve their safety record it's going to be Super Air Crash Jet.

But really I do hope things turn around for them and they start this new airline with proper training and a good safety culture.


How about "Super Happy Ending Jet"?
 
NZ321
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 10:19 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Interesting development....... I have been following the said new airline for some time and saw the A320 delivery via KLIA on IG few weeks ago. While details were sketchy at first, however there was a rumour going around few months back that Rusdi is seeking to dis-associate himself with Lion Air Group, not thanks to all the bad publicity he was getting from all the crashes and incidents. He was also trying limit his liabilities in paying all the lease bills associated with his large Group. The local authority has grown wary of the Group financial health which affects the safety culture of the company. The Group took a lot of gamble in the region but ended up burning itself badly.

Malindo Air in Malaysia is in the ICU. They have retrenched 2,000 out of 3,200 staff last year, leaving about 1,000 staff working on contractual basis. Now operating on barebone ATR fleet via Subang Airport in West Malaysia. They have returned most of their B737NG fleet to its parent company last year, mostly inducted into their Batik Air Indonesia as those B737NG come with J and Y class. The question on whether they will return to jet operation is a huge question mark as one of their JV partner NADI had divested their 51% share to their ex-CEO Chandran Rama Muthy and his wife. He went on to become Lion Air Group group strategic director in August 2019. The remaining B737NG fleet are currently parked at KUL, gathering dust. With NADI out, they were trying to rebrand to Batik Air Malaysia, to copy-and-paste same operation style as those in Indonesia. However, CAAM has prohibited them to do so until they could get their house sorted. End result is what you see now, some B737NG with Batik Air livery but Malindo wordings, others just simply Malindo. The local corporate world knew what was Malindo's real hidden secret well, Malindo Air was the "previous PM plan to antagonize AirAsia Group near monopoly of the local aviation market", but this was never proven. While having choices were good for consumers, however it came with consequences. The fares were dirt cheap to an extent that it was simply unsustainable. it was fortunate that they did not proceed with Batik Air Malaysia long haul plan with A330neo......

As for Thai Lion Air, they have a mixed result. They did well in domestic run, giving Thai Airways, Thai Smile and Nok Air a run for their money. Again they went up against Thai AirAsia which already has a strong foothold on domestic market, they managed to increase their market share as TG, WE and DD stumbled in their strategy. However they were less lucky on their medium-long haul front. With the border closure, their A330ceo/neo operation has effectively ended last year during the pandemic peak. Even during their pre-COVID19 era, it was struggling to make money as Thai AirAsia X has a better and wider coverage. All their A330neo and ceo have been returned to Indonesia.

In all, Lion Air Group should really make effort in focusing their attention to their home ground Indonesia. Build on safety and quality before dabbling in everything else. Airbus and Boeing should take considerable effort to assist them too (I think they did to limited extent), rather than just selling bucketloads of new airframes to them. Of course, this will only work with Rusdi is willing to take the first step in right direction. Indonesia is a very big country with weather that changes very fast, typical of tropical monsoon climate. Airport infrastructure remains a challenge in outskirts cities, the local and central government have been heavily investing over the past decades to bring them up to standard, that being said any pilots in Indonesia should be well trained to handle the local weather, something Lion Air Indonesia and its subsidiary and many other smaller airlines are clearly lacking now.


A most informative update, thank you. I had wondered what was happening to Malindo.
Plane mad!
 
dstblj52
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 10:53 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Just to bring some members to-to-date if some are unaware the sprawling empire of Rusdi:
1. Batik Air- A320ceo/neo and B737-800/900 - full service carrier, domestic and regional routes within Asia and Australia
2. Batik Air Malaysia - B737NG - experimental full service carrier, domestic routes within Malaysia. Did not attain approval for operation, being folded back into mainline Malindo Air
3. Lion Air - A330-300ceo/900neo, B737-800/900 and B737-MAX8/9 - low fare carrier within Indonesia and regional routes within Asia and Australia
4. Malindo Air - ATR 72, B737-800/900 - hybrid carrier within Malaysia and regional routes within Asia and Australia
5. Super Air Jet - A320ceo - "a low cost airline business model focused on tech-obsessed millennials with a propensity to travel" - Only God knows what they mean.......
6. Thai Lion Air- B737-800/900 and B737-MAX9 - low fare carrier within Thailand and regional routes within Asia and Australia
7. Wings Air - ATR 72 - low fare commuter passenger carrier within Indonesia

Fleet check:
234 order for A320 family
109 A320neo - Delivered -1
65 A321neo - Delivered - None
60 A320ceo - Delivered - 44

10 order for A330-300
Delivered - 6

10 order for A330-900
Delivered - 6

230 order for Boeing 737NG/MAX family (201 MAX, 29 NG)
201 MAX - Delivered 13
29 NG - Delivered

50 order for Boeing B737-MAX10
Delivered - None

30 order for Boeing 737NG -900ER
All delivered

60 order for Boeing 737NG -800/900ER mix
All delivered

70 order for ATR 72 -500/600 mix
Delivered - 67

Might left out some, feel free to correct me.

Wow 7 airlines all of which have had major maintenance, safety, training, and policy issues
 
TexasAirCorp
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 11:31 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
5. Super Air Jet - A320ceo - "a low cost airline business model focused on tech-obsessed millennials with a propensity to travel" - Only God knows what they mean.......


'Focused on tech-obsessed millennials' usually means WiFi, in-seat power, stream-to-device IFE, and garish mood lighting. Air France tried something similar with its failed Joon offshoot. It's based off this nonsense idea that millennials won't fly an airline that isn't like JetBlue or Virgin America (rip).

An Asian JetBlue would be interesting to see, however if Rusdi thinks putting crew in brown prison jumpsuits will make Super Air Jet like JetBlue, he seriously needs to do a bit more research.
 
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NearMiss
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 11:48 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:

5. Super Air Jet - A320ceo - "a low cost airline business model focused on tech-obsessed millennials with a propensity to travel" - Only God knows what they mean.......



They should have asked Air France how the "Airline for Millennials" concept went for them :bouncy:
"There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
 
aviationjunky
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 4:26 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
5. Super Air Jet - A320ceo - "a low cost airline business model focused on tech-obsessed millennials with a propensity to travel" - Only God knows what they mean.......


Because Joon was so incredibly successful......
LAS is Life
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 4:27 pm

santi319 wrote:
Soo if they get Sukhois they will be Super Air Jet Superjets? D:

4O's SSJs would be particularly apt and a bargain to boot for their inter-island flying. However, Mt Salak must have left them traumatized too. :flamed: Perhaps the updated, Russified version would fare better :?:

https://www.flightglobal.com/aerospace/ ... 75.article

https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/i ... 71.article
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Baruch
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 6:38 pm

sxf24 wrote:
DartHerald wrote:
Interesting that they have chosen the A320 for the new airline, not the 737NG of which Lion Air have far more. Does it denote the beginnings of a seismic shift?


Ex-Indigo A320s are available very cheap, right now less than $100K/month. Taking these airplanes is an opportunity for Lion to pick up very cheap airplane and “help” the lessors it’s not paying on other aircraft.


I would agree with the above, but I would also add that the new AOC is a way to strong-arm lessors into agreeing to write off arrears and restructure leases. Essentially the threat is that Lion’s activities would shift to this new AOC, with a mix of newly-leased aircraft and existing aircraft whose leases have been restructured, and that lessors who do not acquiesce, will have aircraft stranded in the old AOC.
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 7:41 pm

This is the airline name they come up with in a video game that can't get intellectual property rights to any real airlines
SWA, UAL, DAL, AWE, ASA, TRS, DLH, CLH, AFR, BAW, EIN, AAL, FFT | E190 DC94 CRJ2 B712 B733 B737 B738 B38M B739 B744 B752 B753 B762 B77W A319 A320 A20N A321 A333 A343 A388 MD88
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 9:39 pm

This isn't a discussion on safety, it's a discussion of a rebrand. Please take safety related discussion to another more appropriate thread.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3157
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 10:53 pm

Baruch wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
DartHerald wrote:
Interesting that they have chosen the A320 for the new airline, not the 737NG of which Lion Air have far more. Does it denote the beginnings of a seismic shift?


Ex-Indigo A320s are available very cheap, right now less than $100K/month. Taking these airplanes is an opportunity for Lion to pick up very cheap airplane and “help” the lessors it’s not paying on other aircraft.


I would agree with the above, but I would also add that the new AOC is a way to strong-arm lessors into agreeing to write off arrears and restructure leases. Essentially the threat is that Lion’s activities would shift to this new AOC, with a mix of newly-leased aircraft and existing aircraft whose leases have been restructured, and that lessors who do not acquiesce, will have aircraft stranded in the old AOC.


Honestly, I highly doubt the contracts are that easy to get around. Lessors certainly would have hedged against mechanisms like these to skirt lease requirements.
 
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Vasu
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 11:09 pm

Sounds like a brand of hand dryer!
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 11:09 pm

Devilfish wrote:
santi319 wrote:
Soo if they get Sukhois they will be Super Air Jet Superjets? D:

4O's SSJs would be particularly apt and a bargain to boot for their inter-island flying. However, Mt Salak must have left them traumatized too. :flamed: Perhaps the updated, Russified version would fare better :?:

https://www.flightglobal.com/aerospace/ ... 75.article

https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/i ... 71.article


Given what happened to Interjet, ordering SSJs now sounds like a financial kiss of death.
RIP 9V-SKA
2007 - 2019
 
sxf24
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 11:41 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Baruch wrote:
sxf24 wrote:

Ex-Indigo A320s are available very cheap, right now less than $100K/month. Taking these airplanes is an opportunity for Lion to pick up very cheap airplane and “help” the lessors it’s not paying on other aircraft.


I would agree with the above, but I would also add that the new AOC is a way to strong-arm lessors into agreeing to write off arrears and restructure leases. Essentially the threat is that Lion’s activities would shift to this new AOC, with a mix of newly-leased aircraft and existing aircraft whose leases have been restructured, and that lessors who do not acquiesce, will have aircraft stranded in the old AOC.


Honestly, I highly doubt the contracts are that easy to get around. Lessors certainly would have hedged against mechanisms like these to skirt lease requirements.


Contracts can be pretty strong but Lion Air has a history of pushing back or ignoring. The lessors option is to sue, a time consuming and expensive. In the current market, it’s better to find a way to work with one of the larger airlines.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Mon May 03, 2021 11:59 pm

sxf24 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Baruch wrote:

I would agree with the above, but I would also add that the new AOC is a way to strong-arm lessors into agreeing to write off arrears and restructure leases. Essentially the threat is that Lion’s activities would shift to this new AOC, with a mix of newly-leased aircraft and existing aircraft whose leases have been restructured, and that lessors who do not acquiesce, will have aircraft stranded in the old AOC.


Honestly, I highly doubt the contracts are that easy to get around. Lessors certainly would have hedged against mechanisms like these to skirt lease requirements.


Contracts can be pretty strong but Lion Air has a history of pushing back or ignoring. The lessors option is to sue, a time consuming and expensive. In the current market, it’s better to find a way to work with one of the larger airlines.


I'm not disputing that - certainly other factors can impact what actually happens (I'm a corporate lawyer). I'm just saying the contracts won't be as easy to get around as suggested.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Lion Air creates Super Air Jet, a new airline

Tue May 04, 2021 1:38 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Given what happened to Interjet, ordering SSJs now sounds like a financial kiss of death.

What happened to 4O even with their mixed fleet was internal to the airline. Can you suggest a more affordable type for CU other than the SSJ and would OEMs and lenders trust them with more of their products, especially with the sanction regime in effect?
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