Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Blerg
Posts: 5008
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Thu May 06, 2021 1:34 pm

Will the LH B787 fleet be based in FRA? Have they announced what routes they will operate?
 
Opus99
Topic Author
Posts: 2368
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Thu May 06, 2021 1:42 pm

FluidFlow wrote:
Swiss03 wrote:
interestingly Swiss has just announced, they are reducing their long-haul airbus fleet by 5 aircraft.
Source: https://www.aerotelegraph.com/swiss-kue ... irbus-jets (in german)

this does point towards the A340s leaving the fleet, however, I find this quite odd as at the moment the A340 is the backbone of the long haul fleet, all but a couple of A333 are parked in Jordan.
furthermore for future fleet needs the A330 does not have enough range for most destinations (bar US. east coast and central. Africa/middle east ) and the 77W is too big for some of their long-haul routes (i.e Johannesburg). Adding to that is that it is the only long-haul aircraft in the Edelweiss fleet which should give some fleet commonality points)

however, would it make sense to cut the A333 fleet from 14 to 9?
maybe these could go to EW discover as the EDW birds did.


I think it is the A333s that will leave and it should not make an operational difference for LX as the A333 and A343 are somewhat equal, with the A343 having new interieur.

Additionally LX also slashed almost 800 jobs and will reduce destinations.

https://twitter.com/SpaethFlies/status/ ... 29825?s=20

it is apparently indeed the a340 fleet that will leave
 
FluidFlow
Posts: 1088
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Thu May 06, 2021 1:51 pm

Opus99 wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
Swiss03 wrote:
interestingly Swiss has just announced, they are reducing their long-haul airbus fleet by 5 aircraft.
Source: https://www.aerotelegraph.com/swiss-kue ... irbus-jets (in german)

this does point towards the A340s leaving the fleet, however, I find this quite odd as at the moment the A340 is the backbone of the long haul fleet, all but a couple of A333 are parked in Jordan.
furthermore for future fleet needs the A330 does not have enough range for most destinations (bar US. east coast and central. Africa/middle east ) and the 77W is too big for some of their long-haul routes (i.e Johannesburg). Adding to that is that it is the only long-haul aircraft in the Edelweiss fleet which should give some fleet commonality points)

however, would it make sense to cut the A333 fleet from 14 to 9?
maybe these could go to EW discover as the EDW birds did.


I think it is the A333s that will leave and it should not make an operational difference for LX as the A333 and A343 are somewhat equal, with the A343 having new interieur.

Additionally LX also slashed almost 800 jobs and will reduce destinations.

https://twitter.com/SpaethFlies/status/ ... 29825?s=20

it is apparently indeed the a340 fleet that will leave


Shame it was always a pleasure and a nice ride.
 
fraT
Posts: 1184
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:32 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Thu May 06, 2021 3:23 pm

Blerg wrote:
Will the LH B787 fleet be based in FRA? Have they announced what routes they will operate?


They will be based in FRA but no routes have been announced.
 
777luver
Posts: 585
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Thu May 06, 2021 3:56 pm

Opus99 wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
Swiss03 wrote:
interestingly Swiss has just announced, they are reducing their long-haul airbus fleet by 5 aircraft.
Source: https://www.aerotelegraph.com/swiss-kue ... irbus-jets (in german)

this does point towards the A340s leaving the fleet, however, I find this quite odd as at the moment the A340 is the backbone of the long haul fleet, all but a couple of A333 are parked in Jordan.
furthermore for future fleet needs the A330 does not have enough range for most destinations (bar US. east coast and central. Africa/middle east ) and the 77W is too big for some of their long-haul routes (i.e Johannesburg). Adding to that is that it is the only long-haul aircraft in the Edelweiss fleet which should give some fleet commonality points)

however, would it make sense to cut the A333 fleet from 14 to 9?
maybe these could go to EW discover as the EDW birds did.


I think it is the A333s that will leave and it should not make an operational difference for LX as the A333 and A343 are somewhat equal, with the A343 having new interieur.

Additionally LX also slashed almost 800 jobs and will reduce destinations.

https://twitter.com/SpaethFlies/status/ ... 29825?s=20

it is apparently indeed the a340 fleet that will leave


He's just guessing too
 
777luver
Posts: 585
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Thu May 06, 2021 4:01 pm

FluidFlow wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:

I think it is the A333s that will leave and it should not make an operational difference for LX as the A333 and A343 are somewhat equal, with the A343 having new interieur.

Additionally LX also slashed almost 800 jobs and will reduce destinations.

https://twitter.com/SpaethFlies/status/ ... 29825?s=20

it is apparently indeed the a340 fleet that will leave


Shame it was always a pleasure and a nice ride.


This isn't confirmed at all...
 
FCOTSTW
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Thu May 06, 2021 4:11 pm

I still do not understand why you might want to order two aircraft types of the same capacity. No doubt that they might have got a good deal due to the current starting post-COVID environment, however does it contribute to economies of scale to keep both the 350 and the 787 in-house? Back in the day, airlines either choose the DC-8 or the 707, the D10 or the L10. It appears that just recently airlines might have started housing similar aircraft of both manufacturers. Comments are welcome.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10434
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Thu May 06, 2021 4:26 pm

FCOTSTW wrote:
I still do not understand why you might want to order two aircraft types of the same capacity. No doubt that they might have got a good deal due to the current starting post-COVID environment, however does it contribute to economies of scale to keep both the 350 and the 787 in-house? Back in the day, airlines either choose the DC-8 or the 707, the D10 or the L10. It appears that just recently airlines might have started housing similar aircraft of both manufacturers. Comments are welcome.

A359 and 789 are not same capacity. Here's a thread on this topic:
viewtopic.php?t=1435349
 
DL220MSP
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:10 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Thu May 06, 2021 5:24 pm

LH operates/ordered 45 A350s so it will be their main longhaul type in the future even without further orders.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Thu May 06, 2021 5:32 pm

FCOTSTW wrote:
I still do not understand why you might want to order two aircraft types of the same capacity. No doubt that they might have got a good deal due to the current starting post-COVID environment, however does it contribute to economies of scale to keep both the 350 and the 787 in-house? Back in the day, airlines either choose the DC-8 or the 707, the D10 or the L10. It appears that just recently airlines might have started housing similar aircraft of both manufacturers. Comments are welcome.


The 787-9 is a step below the A350-900. The 787-10 is the same size as the A350-900.
 
User avatar
Momo1435
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Thu May 06, 2021 5:57 pm

FCOTSTW wrote:
I still do not understand why you might want to order two aircraft types of the same capacity. No doubt that they might have got a good deal due to the current starting post-COVID environment, however does it contribute to economies of scale to keep both the 350 and the 787 in-house? Back in the day, airlines either choose the DC-8 or the 707, the D10 or the L10. It appears that just recently airlines might have started housing similar aircraft of both manufacturers. Comments are welcome.

The 77E and A333 has been quite a popular combination for enough airlines.

Airlines have also become larger, with more aircraft in the fleets you also see more diverse fleets.
 
User avatar
DLHAM
Posts: 645
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:10 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Thu May 06, 2021 8:25 pm

VSMUT wrote:
FCOTSTW wrote:
I still do not understand why you might want to order two aircraft types of the same capacity. No doubt that they might have got a good deal due to the current starting post-COVID environment, however does it contribute to economies of scale to keep both the 350 and the 787 in-house? Back in the day, airlines either choose the DC-8 or the 707, the D10 or the L10. It appears that just recently airlines might have started housing similar aircraft of both manufacturers. Comments are welcome.


The 787-9 is a step below the A350-900. The 787-10 is the same size as the A350-900.


To be precise the A350-900 sits between the 787-9 and 787-10 but closer to the -10. But the 787-10 is a little step bigger than the A350-900.
 
777luver
Posts: 585
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Thu May 06, 2021 8:28 pm

A lot of speculation out there by simpleflying and others that LX will retire its A343s. They think that the 5 Airbus longhaul a/c referred to in today's memo must automatically mean the 5 A343s because there's 5 of them
 
inkjet7
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:32 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 5:14 am

Momo1435 wrote:
Just like the AFKLM A350 and 787 orders where it was decided by the group, not the airline that KLM would not be getting any A350s.

It was decided by the group but on request of KLM based on a business case.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14647
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 5:24 am

DLHAM wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
FCOTSTW wrote:
I still do not understand why you might want to order two aircraft types of the same capacity. No doubt that they might have got a good deal due to the current starting post-COVID environment, however does it contribute to economies of scale to keep both the 350 and the 787 in-house? Back in the day, airlines either choose the DC-8 or the 707, the D10 or the L10. It appears that just recently airlines might have started housing similar aircraft of both manufacturers. Comments are welcome.


The 787-9 is a step below the A350-900. The 787-10 is the same size as the A350-900.


To be precise the A350-900 sits between the 787-9 and 787-10 but closer to the -10. But the 787-10 is a little step bigger than the A350-900.


:checkmark:
The A333/339 and the 787-9 are so close in cabin floor space that they can be called the same size. Interesting enough enough, despite the 787 using 9AB seating, in a comparable configuration the A333/339 holds more seats. Obviously Airbus would put the A359 meaningful above that.

best regards
Thomas
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 6:04 am

tommy1808 wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

The 787-9 is a step below the A350-900. The 787-10 is the same size as the A350-900.


To be precise the A350-900 sits between the 787-9 and 787-10 but closer to the -10. But the 787-10 is a little step bigger than the A350-900.


:checkmark:
The A333/339 and the 787-9 are so close in cabin floor space that they can be called the same size. Interesting enough enough, despite the 787 using 9AB seating, in a comparable configuration the A333/339 holds more seats. Obviously Airbus would put the A359 meaningful above that.

best regards
Thomas


Not too surprising. Every new generation of airliners (clean sheet designs) make better use of the onboard space, generally speaking. Lavatories and galleys are moved into areas that can't be used for seating. Less taper towards the nose and tail. Similar story in the cargo hold, less taper around the cargo, nose gear moving further ahead and wing boxes shrinking in length. Despite being a wee bit smaller than the 777-200, the A350-900 typically seats a handful more seats.
 
RvA
Posts: 519
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 6:30 am

777luver wrote:
A lot of speculation out there by simpleflying and others that LX will retire its A343s. They think that the 5 Airbus longhaul a/c referred to in today's memo must automatically mean the 5 A343s because there's 5 of them


I don’t understand this, it was said these will be Frankfurt based even. The first 5 789s are not going to LX.
 
Tiredofhumanity
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:27 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 6:44 am

Swiss03 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Swiss03 wrote:

Might be slightly out of place in this thread , however from my perspective I could see this as the future LH group fleet ca. 2025

brussles Airlines:
A333 (from SQ and CX)
Swiss:
B789
B77W
Edelweiss:
B789
Austrian:
A333 (transferred from LX) (all are 242MTOW)
A332 (transferred from Sun express )
Lufthansa
B77X
B789
A359
A333 (possible )
B748

the reason I don't see the 330s staying at LX is that the cabins are getting really tired, they haven't been replaced since delivery and are getting to be 12 years old now, they are now substandard for the LX fleet but no replacement program has been announced, they would fit perfectly to replace OS africa and N. America routes

just my 2 cents.


Austrian Airlines has some longer flights like LAX, can the A330s in LH Group make it from VIE without restrictions?


that was roughly the reason I included the ex sunexpress A332, they should have the range for the tokyo, CPT, LAX flights


They were built between 2002-05 though.
 
RvA
Posts: 519
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 6:49 am

I can’t get to it now but at the investors day didn’t they show an overview of the aircraft types per airline for the next few years?
 
777luver
Posts: 585
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 7:10 am

RvA wrote:
I can’t get to it now but at the investors day didn’t they show an overview of the aircraft types per airline for the next few years?


They did
 
777luver
Posts: 585
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 7:18 am

RvA wrote:
777luver wrote:
A lot of speculation out there by simpleflying and others that LX will retire its A343s. They think that the 5 Airbus longhaul a/c referred to in today's memo must automatically mean the 5 A343s because there's 5 of them


I don’t understand this, it was said these will be Frankfurt based even. The first 5 789s are not going to LX.


I know. I guess some people are just convinced.
 
FluidFlow
Posts: 1088
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 8:18 am

777luver wrote:
RvA wrote:
777luver wrote:
A lot of speculation out there by simpleflying and others that LX will retire its A343s. They think that the 5 Airbus longhaul a/c referred to in today's memo must automatically mean the 5 A343s because there's 5 of them


I don’t understand this, it was said these will be Frankfurt based even. The first 5 789s are not going to LX.


I know. I guess some people are just convinced.


LX will not get any new aircraft anytime soon I guess (bar from NEOs). LX will reduce the fleet by 5 aircraft and consolidate the destinations.
 
vfw614
Posts: 4030
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 8:58 am

I am surprised about this speculation about LX getting the 787-9s. It has been explicitly stated that the five 787-9 will operate with Lufthansa and that Swiss will reduce its long-haul fleet from 31 to 26 aircraft.

The 787-9 is a step below the A350-900. The 787-10 is the same size as the A350-900.


...but lacks the range (before anyone starts wondering why LH did not, instead of A350s, order the 787-10 alongside the 787-9).
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 9:01 am

vfw614 wrote:
The 787-9 is a step below the A350-900. The 787-10 is the same size as the A350-900.


...but lacks the range (before anyone starts wondering why LH did not, instead of A350s, order the 787-10 alongside the 787-9).


Not to mention that Lufthansa had A350s in service 3 years before they even ordered the first 787s.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 3084
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 9:13 am

777luver wrote:
RvA wrote:
777luver wrote:
A lot of speculation out there by simpleflying and others that LX will retire its A343s. They think that the 5 Airbus longhaul a/c referred to in today's memo must automatically mean the 5 A343s because there's 5 of them


I don’t understand this, it was said these will be Frankfurt based even. The first 5 789s are not going to LX.


I know. I guess some people are just convinced.


I think there is a feeling that the A340 does serve a role in the LX fleet, where the 77W would be too big and the A333 does not have the range. So there does seem to be a 787-9 sized gap in the LX fleet. 2+2=5 for some, regardless of facts.
 
User avatar
MaxiAir
Posts: 316
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 9:47 am

VCVSpotter wrote:
[....]
Momo1435 wrote:
It could also be the case that LH won't use the seats that are on the white tails they will get, but won't install their own product on these planes. They might another product that is also used by another airline, or better a product that would have been used by another airline that has cancelled or deferred orders making the seats available on such short notice. If this is the case it could be any of the available whitetails, it could even be mix of different original customers.


I believe that Boeing's orders page is incorrect, especially if you say that it currently lists them receiving 8 789s with RRs. LN1091 is the first of the GE 789s. Before that, there are only four RR 789s left.



Entry into service this winter does not permit the installation of new "own" seats. It was also stated these 5 oddballs will feature all aisle access. This leads to the conclusion, the frames must have such a Business class product installed. So no Mix and no Norwegian frames, that only have Prem Eco.


VCVSpotter wrote:

Going off this info (4 PAE, 1 CHS), let's do some more investigative work lol. Going to Lufthansa Group's original press release (linked below), they state that "Due to the dramatic impact of the coronavirus pandemic on global aviation, aircraft that had been ordered by some airlines could not be delivered in the past twelve months. Lufthansa held talks with Boeing and found a way to buy five 787-9 that were already manufactured."
https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/newsr ... craft.html

I believe that means that these birds are (probably) over 1 year old (or will be by the time of delivery), BUT the deliveries must've been delayed due to the covid situation, which rules out aircraft that have been stored for a very long time like LN688 (I'd assume that the press release would mean 2020 build). Now time to look at undelivered RR engined 787-9s that are over 1 year old, let's split it up by PAE and CHS builds. I'll still be referencing the original spreadsheet, link here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... dit#gid=19

To try to retain accuracy, I'll cross-check information with this production list:
https://www.planespotters.net/productio ... /787/787-9

PAE:
LN #/Airline/Type/Registration/Roll Out Date
LN955 Norwegian 789 G-CLJN 11/25/19
LN971 Norwegian 789 SE-RXA 1/9/20
LN983 Norwegian 789 SE-RXB 2/4/20
LN997 Gulf Air 789 A9C-FH 3/4/20
LN1011 Norwegian 789 SE-RXC 5/13/20
LN1023 ANA 789 JA934A 6/16/20
LN1033 ANA 789 JA924A 7/15/20
LN1039 Gulf Air 789 A9C-FI 7/31/20
LN1083 ANA 789 JA927A 1/20/21
LN1085 Gulf Air 789 A9C-FJ 1/28/21

CHS:
LN988 Air Europa 789 EC-NGQ 2/20/20
LN992 Air Europa 789 EC-NGR 3/10/20
LN1028 Air Europa 789 EC-NIL 6/24/20
LN1036 LOT 789 SP-LSH 7/17/20
LN1042 Air Europa 789 EC-NJH 8/7/20
LN1046 LOT 789 SP-LSI 8/18/20
LN1060 Air Premia 789 HL8388 9/24/20
LN1070 Air Europa 789 EC-NLR 10/26/20
LN1076 ANA 789 JA926A 1/6/21
LN1082 Air Premia 789 HL8389 3/3/21
LN1086 LAN 789 CC-BGQ 1/18/21 (Note: Not listed on planespotters)
LN1092 LAN 789 CC-BGR ??? (Note: Not listed on planespotters)
LN1090 Air Europa 789 EC-NDM or EC-NMD (conflict between 787 tables & planespotters) ???

Four aircraft have to be from PAE, while one is from CHS. It really looks like the four aircraft are indeed the Norwegian 787-9s. One other combination I could see is the G- reg Norwegian (odd one out with the G- reg) with 3 Gulf Airs, but I'd put money that the four from PAE are the Norwegians.

Now the trick is figuring out who the final CHS 789 is from:
From my understanding with an internal source, Air Premia is taking theirs for sure, so that's not an option.
The odd one out in the CHS production list is ANA 789 JA926A. The only RR ANA 789 from CHS, and it's already been established that ANA doesn't want the RR 787s. I'd say that one is a possibility.
If that one is not an option, I could easily see it being one of the LOTs (LN1036 is leased from ALC, LN1046 is leased from CIT) or maybe one of the LANs (LATAM Group have sent so many A359s and 787s to the desert).

Regardless, it looks like Lufthansa will need to spend some time (and money) configuring all of these to their specific standards and will likely not retain the existing cabins (for fleet commonality). [...]


I wouldn't deduct frames built in 2019 or so. Also, I'm not so sure, LH would completely rule out GE frames, given they already operate 748's (yes, not completely the same) and LHT probably wouldn't have a problem maintaining those either.

Whats your take on:
887 / 62733 - Hainan ntu, Vistara ntu, built in PAE
893 / 62729 - Hainan ntu, Vistara ntu, built in PAE
898 / 62143 - Hainan ntu, Suparna ntu, built in CHS, engines are a bit ?? on this one, as it is stored without any and hasn't flown yet
905 / 62730 - Hainan ntu, Vistara ntu, built in PAE
913 / 62734 - Hainan ntu, Vistara ntu, built in PAE

Yes, they are likely all GE, but apart from that, they offer direct aisle access and fullfill the requirement for aircraft being built at PAE 4 / CHS 1
 
User avatar
Momo1435
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 9:56 am

I think there's some misunderstanding here about LX.

People only commenting on the news about the retirement of 5 long haul Airbusses at LX where they didn't specify the model. The speculation was about which model would be retired, the A343 or the A333. Nobody actually suggested that this had anything to do with the LH 787 order.

Of course the 787 could go to LX in the future, but then they will come from the original LH Group order, or even from another new order.
 
thmeo
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri May 07, 2021 12:42 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 1:00 pm

Is it possible that the first 3 could be the QANTAS birds not delivered that are in storage? These would have the aisle access business class (Vantage XL seat) and could be re-painted and delivered in a relatively short time.

The only problem is the GE engines and everyone’s expecting them to have Rolls.
 
777luver
Posts: 585
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 1:47 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
I think there's some misunderstanding here about LX.

People only commenting on the news about the retirement of 5 long haul Airbusses at LX where they didn't specify the model. The speculation was about which model would be retired, the A343 or the A333. Nobody actually suggested that this had anything to do with the LH 787 order.

Of course the 787 could go to LX in the future, but then they will come from the original LH Group order, or even from another new order.


Yes, that's the speculation, they are retiring the A343s because there's 5 of them and it was stated there is 5 longhaul Airbuses to leave. 5 and 5 is why people are speculating and speaking as if it must be true when it hasn't even been confirmed.
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 1891
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 4:46 pm

MaxiAir wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
[....]
Momo1435 wrote:
It could also be the case that LH won't use the seats that are on the white tails they will get, but won't install their own product on these planes. They might another product that is also used by another airline, or better a product that would have been used by another airline that has cancelled or deferred orders making the seats available on such short notice. If this is the case it could be any of the available whitetails, it could even be mix of different original customers.


I believe that Boeing's orders page is incorrect, especially if you say that it currently lists them receiving 8 789s with RRs. LN1091 is the first of the GE 789s. Before that, there are only four RR 789s left.



Entry into service this winter does not permit the installation of new "own" seats. It was also stated these 5 oddballs will feature all aisle access. This leads to the conclusion, the frames must have such a Business class product installed. So no Mix and no Norwegian frames, that only have Prem Eco.


VCVSpotter wrote:

Going off this info (4 PAE, 1 CHS), let's do some more investigative work lol. Going to Lufthansa Group's original press release (linked below), they state that "Due to the dramatic impact of the coronavirus pandemic on global aviation, aircraft that had been ordered by some airlines could not be delivered in the past twelve months. Lufthansa held talks with Boeing and found a way to buy five 787-9 that were already manufactured."
https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/newsr ... craft.html

I believe that means that these birds are (probably) over 1 year old (or will be by the time of delivery), BUT the deliveries must've been delayed due to the covid situation, which rules out aircraft that have been stored for a very long time like LN688 (I'd assume that the press release would mean 2020 build). Now time to look at undelivered RR engined 787-9s that are over 1 year old, let's split it up by PAE and CHS builds. I'll still be referencing the original spreadsheet, link here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... dit#gid=19

To try to retain accuracy, I'll cross-check information with this production list:
https://www.planespotters.net/productio ... /787/787-9

PAE:
LN #/Airline/Type/Registration/Roll Out Date
LN955 Norwegian 789 G-CLJN 11/25/19
LN971 Norwegian 789 SE-RXA 1/9/20
LN983 Norwegian 789 SE-RXB 2/4/20
LN997 Gulf Air 789 A9C-FH 3/4/20
LN1011 Norwegian 789 SE-RXC 5/13/20
LN1023 ANA 789 JA934A 6/16/20
LN1033 ANA 789 JA924A 7/15/20
LN1039 Gulf Air 789 A9C-FI 7/31/20
LN1083 ANA 789 JA927A 1/20/21
LN1085 Gulf Air 789 A9C-FJ 1/28/21

CHS:
LN988 Air Europa 789 EC-NGQ 2/20/20
LN992 Air Europa 789 EC-NGR 3/10/20
LN1028 Air Europa 789 EC-NIL 6/24/20
LN1036 LOT 789 SP-LSH 7/17/20
LN1042 Air Europa 789 EC-NJH 8/7/20
LN1046 LOT 789 SP-LSI 8/18/20
LN1060 Air Premia 789 HL8388 9/24/20
LN1070 Air Europa 789 EC-NLR 10/26/20
LN1076 ANA 789 JA926A 1/6/21
LN1082 Air Premia 789 HL8389 3/3/21
LN1086 LAN 789 CC-BGQ 1/18/21 (Note: Not listed on planespotters)
LN1092 LAN 789 CC-BGR ??? (Note: Not listed on planespotters)
LN1090 Air Europa 789 EC-NDM or EC-NMD (conflict between 787 tables & planespotters) ???

Four aircraft have to be from PAE, while one is from CHS. It really looks like the four aircraft are indeed the Norwegian 787-9s. One other combination I could see is the G- reg Norwegian (odd one out with the G- reg) with 3 Gulf Airs, but I'd put money that the four from PAE are the Norwegians.

Now the trick is figuring out who the final CHS 789 is from:
From my understanding with an internal source, Air Premia is taking theirs for sure, so that's not an option.
The odd one out in the CHS production list is ANA 789 JA926A. The only RR ANA 789 from CHS, and it's already been established that ANA doesn't want the RR 787s. I'd say that one is a possibility.
If that one is not an option, I could easily see it being one of the LOTs (LN1036 is leased from ALC, LN1046 is leased from CIT) or maybe one of the LANs (LATAM Group have sent so many A359s and 787s to the desert).

Regardless, it looks like Lufthansa will need to spend some time (and money) configuring all of these to their specific standards and will likely not retain the existing cabins (for fleet commonality). [...]


I wouldn't deduct frames built in 2019 or so. Also, I'm not so sure, LH would completely rule out GE frames, given they already operate 748's (yes, not completely the same) and LHT probably wouldn't have a problem maintaining those either.

Whats your take on:
887 / 62733 - Hainan ntu, Vistara ntu, built in PAE
893 / 62729 - Hainan ntu, Vistara ntu, built in PAE
898 / 62143 - Hainan ntu, Suparna ntu, built in CHS, engines are a bit ?? on this one, as it is stored without any and hasn't flown yet
905 / 62730 - Hainan ntu, Vistara ntu, built in PAE
913 / 62734 - Hainan ntu, Vistara ntu, built in PAE

Yes, they are likely all GE, but apart from that, they offer direct aisle access and fullfill the requirement for aircraft being built at PAE 4 / CHS 1


My main issue with that argument is that their initial order was for RR. Yes, I understand that stranger things have happened before, and airlines have flown aircraft with different engine types (I know this isn't a perfect example, but Qantas had the 747-400 (RR) and 747-400ER (GE)). However, this situation is different: The 787s are meant to replace the A340s. There are 17 A340s (of each variant, -300 & -600) and only 5 789s in this top up order. I don't see Lufthansa splitting from their initial RR 789 fleet for just five aircraft.

If they were that desperate for lift, they could take out of storage all of their 744s, 748s, and utilize all of their A343s (and by then they'd have overcapacity). If this was a lease agreement for a year or something so they could get rid of their A343s/744s immediately and have something to hold them over until their initial order of 20 789s arrive, I could definitely see this happening. But to split their 789 fleet into two different engine types just for 5 aircraft seems very unlikely to me personally.

The math with those checks out as you said though: 4 PAE and 1 CHS build. Also, read into this what you will, but I saw LN887 in the Boeing hangar at VCV undergoing rework on March 13, 2021. Everything was taped up, doors, windows, engines, intakes, etc. Landing gear bay doors for both main and nose gear were open, and the last door on the left side of the airframe was open (with stairs attached). The aircraft had the Hainan Group tail, but the fuselage was all white (which was a nice identifier, because only one NTU Vistara frame is in that livery and no registration or LN # was visible on the nose gear door).
 
User avatar
JerseyFlyer
Posts: 1726
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 7:24 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 4:55 pm

The best parallel for multiple engine types is ET which took a mix when they acquired "terrible teen" 787s. I think LH will prefer to avoid complexity by sticking with RR - but that may be influenced by what they are paying for the whitetails.
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 1891
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 5:07 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
The best parallel for multiple engine types is ET which took a mix when they acquired "terrible teen" 787s. I think LH will prefer to avoid complexity by sticking with RR - but that may be influenced by what they are paying for the whitetails.


Agreed. Money talks and they could be getting a steal for these aircraft. It's not like Boeing has a line of customers banging on the door for more 787s.

This is turning into a 787 production thread LOL but it's not LATAM either: "As a result of the amendments, LATAM will maintain its purchase orders in respect of two B787-9 aircraft, with proposed delivery dates in December 2021." These are LN1086 (CC-BGQ) and LN1092 (CC-BGR).
http://www.latamairlinesgroup.net/stati ... a5fe50f2fe
 
User avatar
MaxiAir
Posts: 316
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 6:22 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
The best parallel for multiple engine types is ET which took a mix when they acquired "terrible teen" 787s. I think LH will prefer to avoid complexity by sticking with RR - but that may be influenced by what they are paying for the whitetails.


Agreed. Money talks and they could be getting a steal for these aircraft. It's not like Boeing has a line of customers banging on the door for more 787s.

This is turning into a 787 production thread LOL but it's not LATAM either: "As a result of the amendments, LATAM will maintain its purchase orders in respect of two B787-9 aircraft, with proposed delivery dates in December 2021." These are LN1086 (CC-BGQ) and LN1092 (CC-BGR).
http://www.latamairlinesgroup.net/stati ... a5fe50f2fe


I could imagine that compensation for the heavily delayed 779s plays into this order. Even if this was to be settled separately, its safe to assume those frames were a bargain.

Still, we don't finally know.

And regarding RR vs GE, Lufthansa Technik (pre pandemic) was the largest MRO provider, I don't see the engine to be the biggest problem. Another thought, has Boeing ever modded a 787 between the engine types? Airbus did so on some A330s in the 1990ies. Might require some wiring, a new pylon and maybe some computers in the E&E compartment?!
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 12102
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Fri May 07, 2021 6:29 pm

MaxiAir wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
The best parallel for multiple engine types is ET which took a mix when they acquired "terrible teen" 787s. I think LH will prefer to avoid complexity by sticking with RR - but that may be influenced by what they are paying for the whitetails.


Agreed. Money talks and they could be getting a steal for these aircraft. It's not like Boeing has a line of customers banging on the door for more 787s.

This is turning into a 787 production thread LOL but it's not LATAM either: "As a result of the amendments, LATAM will maintain its purchase orders in respect of two B787-9 aircraft, with proposed delivery dates in December 2021." These are LN1086 (CC-BGQ) and LN1092 (CC-BGR).
http://www.latamairlinesgroup.net/stati ... a5fe50f2fe


I could imagine that compensation for the heavily delayed 779s plays into this order. Even if this was to be settled separately, its safe to assume those frames were a bargain.

Still, we don't finally know.

And regarding RR vs GE, Lufthansa Technik (pre pandemic) was the largest MRO provider, I don't see the engine to be the biggest problem. Another thought, has Boeing ever modded a 787 between the engine types? Airbus did so on some A330s in the 1990ies. Might require some wiring, a new pylon and maybe some computers in the E&E compartment?!

With white tails available from both engine types I do not see Boeing agreeing to go through the expense of switching engines unless one customer wanted ALL of them asap (and they will factor that into the price). Boeing will just say if you want RRs we have LN X, Y, and Z available, if you want GE you can have LN A, B, and C.

The original intended owner of the plane really only matters if the new airline intends to rapidly place the aircraft into service using part or all of the intended owner’s interior. Boeing will gladly refurbish the ntu to match the new owner’s desired specs and interior. It will just cost you more time and a little more money.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8011
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Sat May 08, 2021 5:52 am

thmeo wrote:
Is it possible that the first 3 could be the QANTAS birds not delivered that are in storage? These would have the aisle access business class (Vantage XL seat) and could be re-painted and delivered in a relatively short time.

The only problem is the GE engines and everyone’s expecting them to have Rolls.


I think QF would have something to say about that, QF will take delivery when the time is right.
 
PSA727
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Sat May 08, 2021 7:42 am

Is this push by some posters here about the LH Group needing to acquire the 333neos in the similar vein as some who keep thinking that Delta should buy up every used widebody that comes on the market due to airline retirements? The 787-9 really has the same passenger capacity offering as the 333/339 does (as does the 787-8 versus the 332/338). And the 787s have greater range than their 330 counterparts. So what would be the point of having both types for future purchases going forward?
 
thmeo
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri May 07, 2021 12:42 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Sat May 08, 2021 9:17 am

[photoid][/photoid]
ZK-NBT wrote:
thmeo wrote:
Is it possible that the first 3 could be the QANTAS birds not delivered that are in storage? These would have the aisle access business class (Vantage XL seat) and could be re-painted and delivered in a relatively short time.

The only problem is the GE engines and everyone’s expecting them to have Rolls.


I think QF would have something to say about that, QF will take delivery when the time is right.


It could be 2 to 3 years before they require more capacity than the 11 they already have in service. At which point these birds will be 3 to 4 years old and never flown.

I’m sure for the right deal, Boeing and QANTAS would both allow these to be sold to another operator.
 
LXA340
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:55 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Sat May 08, 2021 10:29 am

Opus99 wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
Swiss03 wrote:
interestingly Swiss has just announced, they are reducing their long-haul airbus fleet by 5 aircraft.
Source: https://www.aerotelegraph.com/swiss-kue ... irbus-jets (in german)

this does point towards the A340s leaving the fleet, however, I find this quite odd as at the moment the A340 is the backbone of the long haul fleet, all but a couple of A333 are parked in Jordan.
furthermore for future fleet needs the A330 does not have enough range for most destinations (bar US. east coast and central. Africa/middle east ) and the 77W is too big for some of their long-haul routes (i.e Johannesburg). Adding to that is that it is the only long-haul aircraft in the Edelweiss fleet which should give some fleet commonality points)

however, would it make sense to cut the A333 fleet from 14 to 9?
maybe these could go to EW discover as the EDW birds did.


I think it is the A333s that will leave and it should not make an operational difference for LX as the A333 and A343 are somewhat equal, with the A343 having new interieur.

Additionally LX also slashed almost 800 jobs and will reduce destinations.

https://twitter.com/SpaethFlies/status/ ... 29825?s=20

it is apparently indeed the a340 fleet that will leave


I would be very much suprised if the A340's will be the 5 aircraft to leave the fleet, given they were only refurbished recently and provide LX the range flexibilities. Also not to forget EDELWEISS will keep it's A340 fleet for the time being and is reducing it's fleet by removing it's A330's, so technicaly you have 9 A343's left in ZRH.

The question is if the tired cabins of the remaining 9 A333's will be refurbished, which was originally once th plan for the A333 fleet as of 2021 or 2022 or they will be the first to be replaced around 2023 with A350's or Dreamliners. Either way, it would be quite weak to continue flying this outdated cabin for another 4- 5 years.

Concerning the Replacement of the A333's and A343's I still am betting on the A350's as SWISS will likely keep F on the whole fleet and wit a 4 Class Cabin the Dreamliners might be too small.
 
Opus99
Topic Author
Posts: 2368
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Sat May 08, 2021 11:03 am

LXA340 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:

I think it is the A333s that will leave and it should not make an operational difference for LX as the A333 and A343 are somewhat equal, with the A343 having new interieur.

Additionally LX also slashed almost 800 jobs and will reduce destinations.

https://twitter.com/SpaethFlies/status/ ... 29825?s=20

it is apparently indeed the a340 fleet that will leave


I would be very much suprised if the A340's will be the 5 aircraft to leave the fleet, given they were only refurbished recently and provide LX the range flexibilities. Also not to forget EDELWEISS will keep it's A340 fleet for the time being and is reducing it's fleet by removing it's A330's, so technicaly you have 9 A343's left in ZRH.

The question is if the tired cabins of the remaining 9 A333's will be refurbished, which was originally once th plan for the A333 fleet as of 2021 or 2022 or they will be the first to be replaced around 2023 with A350's or Dreamliners. Either way, it would be quite weak to continue flying this outdated cabin for another 4- 5 years.

Concerning the Replacement of the A333's and A343's I still am betting on the A350's as SWISS will likely keep F on the whole fleet and wit a 4 Class Cabin the Dreamliners might be too small.

not a -10 though, a -10 would a nice 4 class for them. -10 will give them 250-260 in 4 class. -10 can cover the 330 routes with ease, only jet that could do more seating than this is the 1000 and 777-9. now the 340 routes, I don't know what routes they use that jet but according to this https://upgradedpoints.com/travel/airli ... ane-types/

the -10 can easily handle those routes too. now 350 can come in when we begin to look at 777 replacement, but for 330 and 340 especially because the emphasis that Swiss place on 4 class config the -10 might work out better for them, that is just my two cents anyway.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8011
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Sat May 08, 2021 11:07 am

thmeo wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
ZK-NBT wrote:
thmeo wrote:
Is it possible that the first 3 could be the QANTAS birds not delivered that are in storage? These would have the aisle access business class (Vantage XL seat) and could be re-painted and delivered in a relatively short time.

The only problem is the GE engines and everyone’s expecting them to have Rolls.


I think QF would have something to say about that, QF will take delivery when the time is right.


It could be 2 to 3 years before they require more capacity than the 11 they already have in service. At which point these birds will be 3 to 4 years old and never flown.

I’m sure for the right deal, Boeing and QANTAS would both allow these to be sold to another operator.


The reality is who other than the odd carrier like LH here is actually looking for new aircraft? I’ll say QF could use them by late 2022 early 2023.
 
Capricorn
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:11 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Sat May 08, 2021 12:19 pm

Opus99 wrote:
LXA340 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/SpaethFlies/status/ ... 29825?s=20

it is apparently indeed the a340 fleet that will leave


I would be very much suprised if the A340's will be the 5 aircraft to leave the fleet, given they were only refurbished recently and provide LX the range flexibilities. Also not to forget EDELWEISS will keep it's A340 fleet for the time being and is reducing it's fleet by removing it's A330's, so technicaly you have 9 A343's left in ZRH.

The question is if the tired cabins of the remaining 9 A333's will be refurbished, which was originally once th plan for the A333 fleet as of 2021 or 2022 or they will be the first to be replaced around 2023 with A350's or Dreamliners. Either way, it would be quite weak to continue flying this outdated cabin for another 4- 5 years.

Concerning the Replacement of the A333's and A343's I still am betting on the A350's as SWISS will likely keep F on the whole fleet and wit a 4 Class Cabin the Dreamliners might be too small.

not a -10 though, a -10 would a nice 4 class for them. -10 will give them 250-260 in 4 class. -10 can cover the 330 routes with ease, only jet that could do more seating than this is the 1000 and 777-9. now the 340 routes, I don't know what routes they use that jet but according to this https://upgradedpoints.com/travel/airli ... ane-types/

the -10 can easily handle those routes too. now 350 can come in when we begin to look at 777 replacement, but for 330 and 340 especially because the emphasis that Swiss place on 4 class config the -10 might work out better for them, that is just my two cents anyway.


I don't think the 10 has the reach LX is looking for and. Another strong hint that LX will get the A350 is that LH mainline recently decided to equip its A350s with F. The cabin product communality project that engulfs all LHG airlines once had (and AFAIK still has) the aim of unified LHG cabin product to bring down cost. So far there is no F envisioned for the B787-9, so thats is why I don't think they will end up at LX. That however puts WK in a bad spot as the 787 family would be ideal for them.
 
Opus99
Topic Author
Posts: 2368
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Sat May 08, 2021 12:24 pm

Capricorn wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
LXA340 wrote:

I would be very much suprised if the A340's will be the 5 aircraft to leave the fleet, given they were only refurbished recently and provide LX the range flexibilities. Also not to forget EDELWEISS will keep it's A340 fleet for the time being and is reducing it's fleet by removing it's A330's, so technicaly you have 9 A343's left in ZRH.

The question is if the tired cabins of the remaining 9 A333's will be refurbished, which was originally once th plan for the A333 fleet as of 2021 or 2022 or they will be the first to be replaced around 2023 with A350's or Dreamliners. Either way, it would be quite weak to continue flying this outdated cabin for another 4- 5 years.

Concerning the Replacement of the A333's and A343's I still am betting on the A350's as SWISS will likely keep F on the whole fleet and wit a 4 Class Cabin the Dreamliners might be too small.

not a -10 though, a -10 would a nice 4 class for them. -10 will give them 250-260 in 4 class. -10 can cover the 330 routes with ease, only jet that could do more seating than this is the 1000 and 777-9. now the 340 routes, I don't know what routes they use that jet but according to this https://upgradedpoints.com/travel/airli ... ane-types/

the -10 can easily handle those routes too. now 350 can come in when we begin to look at 777 replacement, but for 330 and 340 especially because the emphasis that Swiss place on 4 class config the -10 might work out better for them, that is just my two cents anyway.


I don't think the 10 has the reach LX is looking for and. Another strong hint that LX will get the A350 is that LH mainline recently decided to equip its A350s with F. The cabin product communality project that engulfs all LHG airlines once had (and AFAIK still has) the aim of unified LHG cabin product to bring down cost. So far there is no F envisioned for the B787-9, so thats is why I don't think they will end up at LX. That however puts WK in a bad spot as the 787 family would be ideal for them.

Well. Let’s see. They both have a strong chance I think. Especially seeing that the group will have both, the 787 and 350. -9 and -10 have 95% commonality. They still hold a further 20 options on the 787 but 350 also has strong advantages but from a 4 class perspective if that’s the focus I think the -10 has strength.

I don’t know where I read that the first class on the 350 will only be one row
 
thmeo
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri May 07, 2021 12:42 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Sat May 08, 2021 1:01 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
thmeo wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
ZK-NBT wrote:

I think QF would have something to say about that, QF will take delivery when the time is right.


It could be 2 to 3 years before they require more capacity than the 11 they already have in service. At which point these birds will be 3 to 4 years old and never flown.

I’m sure for the right deal, Boeing and QANTAS would both allow these to be sold to another operator.


The reality is who other than the odd carrier like LH here is actually looking for new aircraft? I’ll say QF could use them by late 2022 early 2023.


I think it’s going to be a long time before they can fill all 28 A330’s and 11 789’s and require the 3 stored 789’s.

I think it’s very unlikely that they could be going to LH, however anything’s possible.
 
sxf24
Posts: 1259
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Sat May 08, 2021 1:16 pm

thmeo wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
thmeo wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]

It could be 2 to 3 years before they require more capacity than the 11 they already have in service. At which point these birds will be 3 to 4 years old and never flown.

I’m sure for the right deal, Boeing and QANTAS would both allow these to be sold to another operator.


The reality is who other than the odd carrier like LH here is actually looking for new aircraft? I’ll say QF could use them by late 2022 early 2023.


I think it’s going to be a long time before they can fill all 28 A330’s and 11 789’s and require the 3 stored 789’s.

I think it’s very unlikely that they could be going to LH, however anything’s possible.


The QF airplanes delivered and are not Boeing’s to remarket.
 
thmeo
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri May 07, 2021 12:42 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Sat May 08, 2021 1:32 pm

sxf24 wrote:
thmeo wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

The reality is who other than the odd carrier like LH here is actually looking for new aircraft? I’ll say QF could use them by late 2022 early 2023.


I think it’s going to be a long time before they can fill all 28 A330’s and 11 789’s and require the 3 stored 789’s.

I think it’s very unlikely that they could be going to LH, however anything’s possible.


The QF airplanes delivered and are not Boeing’s to remarket.

I don’t believe they have been delivered. They’re not registered with CASA and they’re not even painted. I’m pretty sure Boeing put them into storage.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 26590
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Sat May 08, 2021 1:40 pm

777luver wrote:
A lot of speculation out there by simpleflying and others that LX will retire its A343s. They think that the 5 Airbus longhaul a/c referred to in today's memo must automatically mean the 5 A343s because there's 5 of them

Yet the tweet linked above from Andreas Spaeth says 'announced by @FlySWISS' and he's a professional journalist for decades now and I doubt he would use these words if it was just speculation. Of course he could have made a mistake or been given bad information, but I doubt he's speculating, he would have said so if he was.

ZK-NBT wrote:
thmeo wrote:
Is it possible that the first 3 could be the QANTAS birds not delivered that are in storage? These would have the aisle access business class (Vantage XL seat) and could be re-painted and delivered in a relatively short time.

The only problem is the GE engines and everyone’s expecting them to have Rolls.

I think QF would have something to say about that, QF will take delivery when the time is right.

Kind of ironic, given how the 787 delays caused QF so many problems a decade or so ago.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 11883
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Sat May 08, 2021 2:08 pm

thmeo wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
thmeo wrote:

I think it’s going to be a long time before they can fill all 28 A330’s and 11 789’s and require the 3 stored 789’s.

I think it’s very unlikely that they could be going to LH, however anything’s possible.


The QF airplanes delivered and are not Boeing’s to remarket.

I don’t believe they have been delivered. They’re not registered with CASA and they’re not even painted. I’m pretty sure Boeing put them into storage.


2 of the 3 are in full QF livery
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14647
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Sat May 08, 2021 2:39 pm

PSA727 wrote:
Is this push by some posters here about the LH Group needing to acquire the 333neos in the similar vein as some who keep thinking that Delta should buy up every used widebody that comes on the market due to airline retirements? The 787-9 really has the same passenger capacity offering as the 333/339 does (as does the 787-8 versus the 332/338).


All else being the same, an A333/A339 seats a few people more unless the plane is very light on Premium seating and 9 AB Y-seating takes over.

So what would be the point of having both types for future purchases going forward?


Ask Virgin Atlantic, they seem to know the answer.

Best regards
Thomas
 
User avatar
Rifitto
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:46 am

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Sat May 08, 2021 3:29 pm

tommy1808 wrote:

All else being the same, an A333/A339 seats a few people more unless the plane is very light on Premium seating and 9 AB Y-seating takes over.
Thomas


No way a A333/A339 would seat more than a 789 , it's only 85 cm longer ,that's only a single row of Y ,
in same configuration ,the 789 will gain a seat for every row of economy class ,since it's 9 abreast vs 8 ,which will give circa 25 more seats
subtract 8 and add 25
 
Opus99
Topic Author
Posts: 2368
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: LH ordering 5 more A350s and 5 more 787-9

Sat May 08, 2021 3:58 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
PSA727 wrote:
Is this push by some posters here about the LH Group needing to acquire the 333neos in the similar vein as some who keep thinking that Delta should buy up every used widebody that comes on the market due to airline retirements? The 787-9 really has the same passenger capacity offering as the 333/339 does (as does the 787-8 versus the 332/338).


All else being the same, an A333/A339 seats a few people more unless the plane is very light on Premium seating and 9 AB Y-seating takes over.

So what would be the point of having both types for future purchases going forward?


Ask Virgin Atlantic, they seem to know the answer.

Best regards
Thomas

They clearly don’t seeing their constant poor financial performance.

That airline has 3 different types of aircraft and 35 aircrafts in total.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos