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clrd4t8koff
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AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 9:46 am

AA flight attendant on one of Sunday’s MIA-JFK flights was viciously attacked twice by a passenger inflight. The flight crew requested to land immediately but were denied. Is this standard Ops? What if the FA required medical attention! I doubt the flight crew would request immediate clearance to land unless there was something that warranted it. What basis would a flight crew be denied immediate landing in an instance like this?

“An off-duty NYPD cop on the plane intervened and placed Campbell in handcuffs. The flight crew requested and were denied permission to land immediately, and Campbell was arrested upon arrival at Kennedy Airport in Queens.”

https://nypost.com/2021/05/03/woman-pun ... ight-feds/
 
mileduets
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Re: AA FA viciously attacked inflight, Captain is denied immediate landing

Tue May 04, 2021 11:32 am

I can see reasons why a captain would decide to continue the flight. First of all the attacker was restrained with handcuffs by a policeman and seemed to have posed no more danger to crew members and other passengers. Second there were a few other passengers on the plane who wouldn't have liked to be diverted to a different airport.The captain did a weighing of interests. It's up to him.
 
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scbriml
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Re: AA FA viciously attacked inflight, Captain is denied immediate landing

Tue May 04, 2021 11:38 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Why would a Captain deny a flight attendant who’d been attacked immediate attention.


Maybe he assessed the situation and, in his professional opinion, decided that an emergency diversion wasn't required or justified?

The emotive language used in the thread title and your posts doesn't seem to be based on first-hand knowledge of what actually happened on the flight nor the physical or mental condition of the flight attendant.
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JohanTally
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Re: AA FA viciously attacked inflight, Captain is denied immediate landing

Tue May 04, 2021 11:47 am

It sounds like this flight was nearing their initial descent and I don't see them getting on the ground significantly faster by diverting. They may have received a priority landing as well because they called for emergency services which would help expedite the landing. Judging by the flight path it looks like they were given an extremely direct routing and landing a 777 from flight level 390 takes some time.
 
tallis
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Re: AA FA viciously attacked inflight, Captain is denied immediate landing

Tue May 04, 2021 12:15 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Why would a Captain deny a flight attendant who’d been attacked immediate attention. This is an emergency. Even if on the outside she wasn’t exhibiting trauma, but mentally she was breaking down. This is someone’s whose role is to help save the passengers lives in the event of an emergency and yet an emergency happened (to her) and she was denied immediate attention by the Captain?? How does that instil confidence by flight crews that their own Captains won’t help them in an emergency?


I think that’s a huge over simplification of the decision making process in such a scenario. First off, there’s no such thing as ‘immediate attention’ in the cruise.

The best and quickest alternate airport very often ends up being your destination airport even if it isn’t the closest one on the map when you bear in mind things like descent track mileage, the need to take time to re-brief, lack of familiarity with nearest geographical alternative, guarantee of expeditious ground support and medical assistance at your destination etc etc...

What’s more, you can call non standard phrases like ‘immediate landing’ as much as you want but the reality is that there are only two that you can use to actually get priority - ‘Mayday’ which will get you it and ‘Pan Pan’ which makes the controller aware of your situation but might not get you ahead of anyone else.

I would argue that, as the assailant was detained, this wasn’t a Mayday, so what would you have had the captain do?
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: AA FA viciously attacked inflight, Captain is denied immediate landing

Tue May 04, 2021 12:23 pm

Yikes!! Hopefully the FA is okay and they add the assailant to the NO FLY list forever!!!
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: AA FA viciously attacked inflight, Captain is denied immediate landing

Tue May 04, 2021 12:32 pm

It never ceases to amaze me how airborne miscreants forget that...OH!...I'm already in a jail cell and I have witnesses all around me and it's impossible for me to escape either.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
ATCJesus
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Re: AA FA viciously attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 1:13 pm

Guaranteed ATC would have still given the plane priority the second they asked for services on the ground.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 1:22 pm

This is an aviation topic. Discuss aviation.
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ssteve
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Re: AA FA viciously attacked inflight, Captain is denied immediate landing

Tue May 04, 2021 1:31 pm

JohanTally wrote:
It sounds like this flight was nearing their initial descent and I don't see them getting on the ground significantly faster by diverting. They may have received a priority landing as well because they called for emergency services which would help expedite the landing. Judging by the flight path it looks like they were given an extremely direct routing and landing a 777 from flight level 390 takes some time.


This clarifies a lot.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: AA FA viciously attacked inflight, Captain is denied immediate landing

Tue May 04, 2021 1:36 pm

ssteve wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
It sounds like this flight was nearing their initial descent and I don't see them getting on the ground significantly faster by diverting. They may have received a priority landing as well because they called for emergency services which would help expedite the landing. Judging by the flight path it looks like they were given an extremely direct routing and landing a 777 from flight level 390 takes some time.


This clarifies a lot.


Per the following legal doc the flight was only at the midway point which would have put it off the coast of North Carolina. Why couldn't they have diverted to CLT, picked up 1 new FA and allow the other FA to receive care and continue on?

Look at section 3 specifically:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... =1&title=1

Where are you seeing that the flight was in initial descent?
 
asuflyer
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 2:09 pm

A BA crew was also attacked this week as well. https://onemileatatime.com/morons-fined ... ways-crew/

The FAA has warned that these types of incidents are unfortunately on the rise.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fa ... r-n1266156
 
maps4ltd
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 2:31 pm

She needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Next flights:
Who knows? :/
 
santi319
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 2:33 pm

Omg that flight attendant is gonna be so rich with that lawsuit that AA has comming its way? You don’t divert for someone actively attacking a crewmember? Absolutely outrageous.
 
JohanTally
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 2:44 pm

santi319 wrote:
Omg that flight attendant is gonna be so rich with that lawsuit that AA has comming its way? You don’t divert for someone actively attacking a crewmember? Absolutely outrageous.

Did you read the article an offduty NYPD officer had the attacker in handcuffs. The plane was at 39k feet so regardless of what airport is closest it will take at least 30+ minutes to go through all the checklists and land. Like an earlier poster stated sometimes the diversion Airport may take longer than the originally planned destination.
 
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spinotter
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 2:45 pm

santi319 wrote:
Omg that flight attendant is gonna be so rich with that lawsuit that AA has comming its way? You don’t divert for someone actively attacking a crewmember? Absolutely outrageous.


For all we know, the crew member who was attacked may have preferred to continue to NYC.
 
ScottB
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Re: AA FA viciously attacked inflight, Captain is denied immediate landing

Tue May 04, 2021 2:45 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
the flight was only at the midway point which would have put it off the coast of North Carolina. Why couldn't they have diverted to CLT, picked up 1 new FA and allow the other FA to receive care and continue on?


There would have been little point in diverting to CLT. If you read further down to §6, you would see:

The Victim was evaluated by medical personnel at JFK and refused additional medical assistance.


The assailant had been placed in hand restraints so she was no longer an immediate threat. If the pilots were marginal on duty time, they might have ended up stuck in CLT until a new flight deck crew could be found -- is CLT even a 777 domicile? It arrived JFK after 10 PM so there's a decent chance a diversion might have ended up getting everyone stuck overnight.
 
JohanTally
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Re: AA FA viciously attacked inflight, Captain is denied immediate landing

Tue May 04, 2021 2:50 pm

ScottB wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
the flight was only at the midway point which would have put it off the coast of North Carolina. Why couldn't they have diverted to CLT, picked up 1 new FA and allow the other FA to receive care and continue on?


There would have been little point in diverting to CLT. If you read further down to §6, you would see:

The Victim was evaluated by medical personnel at JFK and refused additional medical assistance.


The assailant had been placed in hand restraints so she was no longer an immediate threat. If the pilots were marginal on duty time, they might have ended up stuck in CLT until a new flight deck crew could be found -- is CLT even a 777 domicile? It arrived JFK after 10 PM so there's a decent chance a diversion might have ended up getting everyone stuck overnight.


CLT is a new AA 777 crew base. It seems pretty clear that diverting would of barely got them on the ground faster and there weren't any serious medical emergencies if FA refused additional medical assistance once in the ground.
 
Adipocere
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 3:50 pm

Is it clear that the Captain declined to land immediately or whether ATC denied permission for an emergency landing?
 
jimatkins
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 3:56 pm

Just now saw an item on the news, MSNBC- average passenger police interventions have been 100-200 per year in the past, according to the FAA. This year so far, 1300 incidents. People are bloody crazy.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 4:06 pm

Adipocere wrote:
Is it clear that the Captain declined to land immediately or whether ATC denied permission for an emergency landing?


That’s my question, too. ATC cannot refuse “permission” for an emergency landing. If the captain said, “declaring an emergency, we need to divert to CLT”. ATC’s only action to provide traffic priority and separation. Yet another case of media incompetence and misinformation.

If, OTOH, the captain believed the situation was under control, continuing to destination is fine, too, just don’t call it “permission denied”.
 
santi319
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 5:00 pm

JohanTally wrote:
santi319 wrote:
Omg that flight attendant is gonna be so rich with that lawsuit that AA has comming its way? You don’t divert for someone actively attacking a crewmember? Absolutely outrageous.

Did you read the article an offduty NYPD officer had the attacker in handcuffs. The plane was at 39k feet so regardless of what airport is closest it will take at least 30+ minutes to go through all the checklists and land. Like an earlier poster stated sometimes the diversion Airport may take longer than the originally planned destination.


Mmm I dont know, if physically attacking the crew TWICE doesn’t warrant a diversion (on a flight to NY nonetheless) we didnt learn ANYTHING from 9/11.
 
Corpsnerd09
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Re: AA FA viciously attacked inflight, Captain is denied immediate landing

Tue May 04, 2021 5:27 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Yikes!! Hopefully the FA is okay and they add the assailant to the NO FLY list forever!!!


Not only should they be added to the NoFly but also fined $27,500... Did that law pass or not?
 
Wacker1000
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 6:43 pm

The fact that this happened on a flight between two cities known for calm and rational people is very surprising.
 
Murdoughnut
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 7:41 pm

Wacker1000 wrote:
The fact that this happened on a flight between two cities known for calm and rational people is very surprising.


Work in this industry long enough and you can see how the probability of someone being yanked from a plane for some crime increases with: 1) Lower fares, and; 2) EWR, BOS, ACY, PHL or FLL/MIA as point of origin/destination.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 7:59 pm

I feel AA has been the airlines of the last few crazy passenger fighting stories. Let's all remember this when the spirit is greyhound jokes come out. When AA prices the same they get the same or worse crowd on board also! It's not the airlines is the city pairs that produces these people
 
Jetty
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 8:05 pm

Additional reporting including an interview with the perpetrator at the Daily Mail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ndant.html
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 8:56 pm

Wonder if the passenger was drunk? Also I read somewhere that she stated the police won't do anything to her??
 
Cdydatzigs
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 9:27 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
Wonder if the passenger was drunk? Also I read somewhere that she stated the police won't do anything to her??


The majority of the increase in these incidents is passengers refusing to wear masks when they are told to. Fortunately, the punishment for these kinds of incidents is slated to get a lot more severe.
 
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scbriml
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 9:37 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
We don’t have a clue as to why she refused additional medical assistance. Maybe the Captain was being a tyrant and she was afraid receiving additional medical assistance would have escalated the situation and created a huge issue for the Captain and was scared for her job. Do you know how many employees refrain from taking action in fear of retaliation at companies? Lots! It’s much harder to replace a Captain of a 777 than it is to replace a flight attendant. Perhaps she was scared. Why would the flight crew have requested immediate diversion if it wasn’t warranted?

Sounds to me like what you had was a cranky JFK based 777 Captain who wanted to get home to his White Plains mansion instead of caring for an injured co-worker who’d been attacked not once but twice! Geesh...


A perfectly reasonable assumption would be that further medical assistance was declined because it wasn’t required.

You have zero evidence that the captain behaved or acted inappropriately. You simply don’t know what happened.

Again, your post is fat on very emotive language and thin on facts.
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slcdeltarumd11
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 9:48 pm

Cdydatzigs wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
Wonder if the passenger was drunk? Also I read somewhere that she stated the police won't do anything to her??


The majority of the increase in these incidents is passengers refusing to wear masks when they are told to. Fortunately, the punishment for these kinds of incidents is slated to get a lot more severe.


I think masks play little into this. It's that passengers got use to having space and empty seats. They are now being thrown into long check in lines, smaller thinner seats, and delays are growing. The stress of flying is coming back and it's coming out with agreessive behavior. I was on a united flight just end of april where a lady was furious that she couldn't have an empty seat next to her, she claimed that is what the airlines promised and she has been accomodated on all other flights. Flights are filling up just going to the next flight is unlikely to guarantee an empty seat. I think the stress of flying is coming back very quickly and we have some people who for whatever reason have pandemic experience flying expectations
 
FlyHossD
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 10:30 pm

scbriml wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
We don’t have a clue as to why she refused additional medical assistance. Maybe the Captain was being a tyrant and she was afraid receiving additional medical assistance would have escalated the situation and created a huge issue for the Captain and was scared for her job. Do you know how many employees refrain from taking action in fear of retaliation at companies? Lots! It’s much harder to replace a Captain of a 777 than it is to replace a flight attendant. Perhaps she was scared. Why would the flight crew have requested immediate diversion if it wasn’t warranted?

Sounds to me like what you had was a cranky JFK based 777 Captain who wanted to get home to his White Plains mansion instead of caring for an injured co-worker who’d been attacked not once but twice! Geesh...


A perfectly reasonable assumption would be that further medical assistance was declined because it wasn’t required.

You have zero evidence that the captain behaved or acted inappropriately. You simply don’t know what happened.

Again, your post is fat on very emotive language and thin on facts.


Thank you scbrimi.

In our hyper-connected world, we shouldn't be surprised that people jump to conclusions based on what many consider biased, flawed and just-poor reporting.

Recently, I heard a taped radio broadcast from 1978 that included news at the top of the hour. The dichotomy of news then and what's reported and emphasized now was huge.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
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stl07
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 10:59 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I feel AA has been the airlines of the last few crazy passenger fighting stories. Let's all remember this when the spirit is greyhound jokes come out. When AA prices the same they get the same or worse crowd on board also! It's not the airlines is the city pairs that produces these people

Having just flown MIA-LAX, I can assure you that the new high density 777s are VERY uncomfortable. But that's a reason to groan, not assault a random FA
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B747forever
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Tue May 04, 2021 11:15 pm

Jetty wrote:
Additional reporting including an interview with the perpetrator at the Daily Mail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ndant.html



What I suspected, mental health issues, not that it excuses the behavior.
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JohanTally
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Wed May 05, 2021 2:43 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Cdydatzigs wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
Wonder if the passenger was drunk? Also I read somewhere that she stated the police won't do anything to her??


The majority of the increase in these incidents is passengers refusing to wear masks when they are told to. Fortunately, the punishment for these kinds of incidents is slated to get a lot more severe.


I think masks play little into this. It's that passengers got use to having space and empty seats. They are now being thrown into long check in lines, smaller thinner seats, and delays are growing. The stress of flying is coming back and it's coming out with agreessive behavior. I was on a united flight just end of april where a lady was furious that she couldn't have an empty seat next to her, she claimed that is what the airlines promised and she has been accomodated on all other flights. Flights are filling up just going to the next flight is unlikely to guarantee an empty seat. I think the stress of flying is coming back very quickly and we have some people who for whatever reason have pandemic experience flying expectations


Also a big factor is these planes are no longer filled with business travellers who are very well conditioned on the stress of air travel.
 
twinotter
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Wed May 05, 2021 3:27 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
ATC cannot refuse “permission” for an emergency landing. If the captain said, “declaring an emergency, we need to divert to CLT”. ATC’s only action to provide traffic priority and separation.


Correct, and it doesn't need to be an emergency either. The Captain can divert anywhere just by telling ATC where he/she wants to go. It's not a common thing with revenue flights due to the inconvenience to passengers, but my airline has diverted ferry flights many times when an operational need pops up once the flight is airborne. Not a big deal.
 
ATCJesus
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Wed May 05, 2021 3:42 am

twinotter wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
ATC cannot refuse “permission” for an emergency landing. If the captain said, “declaring an emergency, we need to divert to CLT”. ATC’s only action to provide traffic priority and separation.


Correct, and it doesn't need to be an emergency either. The Captain can divert anywhere just by telling ATC where he/she wants to go. It's not a common thing with revenue flights due to the inconvenience to passengers, but my airline has diverted ferry flights many times when an operational need pops up once the flight is airborne. Not a big deal.



ATC will do anything to help a plane divert. This would never be denied for an airliner.... Business aircraft I’ve heard some stories.
 
Caspian27
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Wed May 05, 2021 4:02 am

JohanTally wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Cdydatzigs wrote:

The majority of the increase in these incidents is passengers refusing to wear masks when they are told to. Fortunately, the punishment for these kinds of incidents is slated to get a lot more severe.


I think masks play little into this. It's that passengers got use to having space and empty seats. They are now being thrown into long check in lines, smaller thinner seats, and delays are growing. The stress of flying is coming back and it's coming out with agreessive behavior. I was on a united flight just end of april where a lady was furious that she couldn't have an empty seat next to her, she claimed that is what the airlines promised and she has been accomodated on all other flights. Flights are filling up just going to the next flight is unlikely to guarantee an empty seat. I think the stress of flying is coming back very quickly and we have some people who for whatever reason have pandemic experience flying expectations


Also a big factor is these planes are no longer filled with business travellers who are very well conditioned on the stress of air travel.


It’s not just the fact that planes aren’t filled with more business travelers. I think we sometimes take too lightly the emotional effect that the pandemic and resulting restrictions are having on society as a whole. While some people may be stressed because they fear dying of COVID, others are stressed because they don’t fear dying of COVID but their income is lessened or their job has been lost due to the restrictions. Others are stressed about how they view the state of country or the world.

I think we all know that abuse of all kinds has gone up during the pandemic, both substance abuse and abuse of other humans. While the perpetrator may have mental issues, they are hardly alone. Most of us have had increased stress for a variety of reasons this last year. The prolonged feeling of stress is bound to boil over into bad behavior since people generally don’t have as much “emotional reserve” as they might have had in the past. Humans, in my opinion, aren’t designed to live with elevated levels of stress for extended periods of time and it’s highly likely that as a result, bad behavior may continue until things start to normalize and peoples stress levels correspondingly decrease.

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases ... s-pandemic
Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Wed May 05, 2021 1:16 pm

Caspian27 wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

I think masks play little into this. It's that passengers got use to having space and empty seats. They are now being thrown into long check in lines, smaller thinner seats, and delays are growing. The stress of flying is coming back and it's coming out with agreessive behavior. I was on a united flight just end of april where a lady was furious that she couldn't have an empty seat next to her, she claimed that is what the airlines promised and she has been accomodated on all other flights. Flights are filling up just going to the next flight is unlikely to guarantee an empty seat. I think the stress of flying is coming back very quickly and we have some people who for whatever reason have pandemic experience flying expectations


Also a big factor is these planes are no longer filled with business travellers who are very well conditioned on the stress of air travel.


It’s not just the fact that planes aren’t filled with more business travelers. I think we sometimes take too lightly the emotional effect that the pandemic and resulting restrictions are having on society as a whole. While some people may be stressed because they fear dying of COVID, others are stressed because they don’t fear dying of COVID but their income is lessened or their job has been lost due to the restrictions. Others are stressed about how they view the state of country or the world.

I think we all know that abuse of all kinds has gone up during the pandemic, both substance abuse and abuse of other humans. While the perpetrator may have mental issues, they are hardly alone. Most of us have had increased stress for a variety of reasons this last year. The prolonged feeling of stress is bound to boil over into bad behavior since people generally don’t have as much “emotional reserve” as they might have had in the past. Humans, in my opinion, aren’t designed to live with elevated levels of stress for extended periods of time and it’s highly likely that as a result, bad behavior may continue until things start to normalize and peoples stress levels correspondingly decrease.

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases ... s-pandemic


One of the quotes about last week's MIA brawl was that "Now that Chuck E Cheese is closed, people are having brawls at the airport instead of Chuck E Cheese".

Now that most restaurants and other places where large groups gather are closed, airports and airplanes are among the few places where people have to spend lots of time in close proximity to strangers. Unstable people with explosive tempers who in the past might have started throwing punches after someone jostled them at a Dolphins game, or because someone else's child was playing a game at Chuck E Cheese that their own child wanted to play, have fewer outlets for their aggression now.....and I think that's part of the reason fights at airports and on airplanes are going up.

At the risk of going OT, here's a compilation of some of the best fights at Chuck E Cheese. Extreme NSFW language.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdIloHOsV28
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Wed May 05, 2021 1:27 pm

ATCJesus wrote:
twinotter wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
ATC cannot refuse “permission” for an emergency landing. If the captain said, “declaring an emergency, we need to divert to CLT”. ATC’s only action to provide traffic priority and separation.


Correct, and it doesn't need to be an emergency either. The Captain can divert anywhere just by telling ATC where he/she wants to go. It's not a common thing with revenue flights due to the inconvenience to passengers, but my airline has diverted ferry flights many times when an operational need pops up once the flight is airborne. Not a big deal.



ATC will do anything to help a plane divert. This would never be denied for an airliner.... Business aircraft I’ve heard some stories.


With 20+ years of business aviation time as a pilot, I’d like to hear a story where ATC denied a diversion.
 
reltney
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Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Wed May 05, 2021 1:33 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
AA flight attendant on one of Sunday’s MIA-JFK flights was viciously attacked twice by a passenger inflight. The flight crew requested to land immediately but were denied. Is this standard Ops? What if the FA required medical attention! I doubt the flight crew would request immediate clearance to land unless there was something that warranted it. What basis would a flight crew be denied immediate landing in an instance like this?

“An off-duty NYPD cop on the plane intervened and placed Campbell in handcuffs. The flight crew requested and were denied permission to land immediately, and Campbell was arrested upon arrival at Kennedy Airport in Queens.”

https://nypost.com/2021/05/03/woman-pun ... ight-feds/


FYI, you can NEVER be denied to land. EVER... an emergency aircraft has the ultimate authority.
If the captain declares an emergency, that is that. Military bases of foreign governments might object and that is a different issue. ICAO agreements between countries for emergency aircraft carrying passengers is a good read.

The company will tell the captain what they would LIKE him/her to do and that’s part of 121 flying, but if the E word is said, it ONLY the Capt’s decision.

Cheers
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
2eng2efficient
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:30 pm

Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Wed May 05, 2021 1:47 pm

reltney wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
AA flight attendant on one of Sunday’s MIA-JFK flights was viciously attacked twice by a passenger inflight. The flight crew requested to land immediately but were denied. Is this standard Ops? What if the FA required medical attention! I doubt the flight crew would request immediate clearance to land unless there was something that warranted it. What basis would a flight crew be denied immediate landing in an instance like this?

“An off-duty NYPD cop on the plane intervened and placed Campbell in handcuffs. The flight crew requested and were denied permission to land immediately, and Campbell was arrested upon arrival at Kennedy Airport in Queens.”

https://nypost.com/2021/05/03/woman-pun ... ight-feds/


FYI, you can NEVER be denied to land. EVER... an emergency aircraft has the ultimate authority.
If the captain declares an emergency, that is that. Military bases of foreign governments might object and that is a different issue. ICAO agreements between countries for emergency aircraft carrying passengers is a good read.

The company will tell the captain what they would LIKE him/her to do and that’s part of 121 flying, but if the E word is said, it ONLY the Capt’s decision.

Cheers


Reminds me of this A.net “Best Hits” thread from 17 years ago:

“If A Commercial Airliner Diverted to Area 51...”
viewtopic.php?t=285351

One user *claimed* a TWA MD-80 diverted there “in the mid-90’s.”
 
Shakinthefat
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 6:56 pm

Re: AA FA viciously attacked inflight, Captain is denied immediate landing

Wed May 05, 2021 1:51 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me how airborne miscreants forget that...OH!...I'm already in a jail cell and I have witnesses all around me and it's impossible for me to escape either.


I wonder if alcohol was involved. A lot of these incidents are alcohol related. If it was up to me I would remove booze from commercial flights.
 
highflier92660
Posts: 737
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:16 am

Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Wed May 05, 2021 2:18 pm

Jetty wrote:
Additional reporting including an interview with the perpetrator at the Daily Mail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ndant.html


My previous post having been unceremoniously deleted, I'll just diplomatically observe that her denial of inflight behavior isn't all that unsurprising. That may indicate why she was attempting to use the ancient Ninja art of invisibility when exiting the terminal building.

Last night several networks featured news stories about an increase in unruly inflight behavior as we emerge from the pandemic and air travel builds back to pre-Covid levels.
 
ATCJesus
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:39 am

Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Wed May 05, 2021 2:49 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
ATCJesus wrote:
twinotter wrote:

Correct, and it doesn't need to be an emergency either. The Captain can divert anywhere just by telling ATC where he/she wants to go. It's not a common thing with revenue flights due to the inconvenience to passengers, but my airline has diverted ferry flights many times when an operational need pops up once the flight is airborne. Not a big deal.



ATC will do anything to help a plane divert. This would never be denied for an airliner.... Business aircraft I’ve heard some stories.


With 20+ years of business aviation time as a pilot, I’d like to hear a story where ATC denied a diversion.


Not strictly denying a diversion, but limiting which airport they can go to. Depending on the type of emergency obviously, but jets wanting to go into LAX and forcing them to ONT instead so they don’t shut down LAX for several hours.
 
NLINK
Posts: 383
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:20 pm

Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Wed May 05, 2021 2:52 pm

This has always existed on airplanes and airports. I think the big thing is now social media more people hear about it.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4306
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Wed May 05, 2021 2:57 pm

At this point, if you attack a member of the crew on a plane, cause a disturbance by being drunk or just stupid, where the fingers point to your behavior as the culprit, resulting in risks, delays, and potential dangers, you should be banned for a minimum of 10 years (and potentially for good not just from that airline but from the system, full stop). If you'll need to travel for an emergency purpose (e.g. attend a funeral, a family emergency, or some other situation where surface transportation is not an option), you can apply to law enforcement for a temporary lift. The fact that these issues continue to happen is simply inexcusable. Yes, the airlines have made flying challenging for decades, but the issues caused by unruly passengers should be dealt with in very clear, decisive, and draconian terms and any costs to the airline and your fellow passengers might as well be passed along to the offender if they are significant.
 
AndoAv8R
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:29 pm

Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Wed May 05, 2021 5:13 pm

I'm sure a part of the captain not requesting a diversion/emergency was the fact the NYPD cop had her properly restrained. I would not doubt had it just been passengers restraining her it may have been a different story
 
clrd4t8koff
Topic Author
Posts: 1772
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Wed May 05, 2021 5:47 pm

I want to bring this post back to the facts that were stated in the various articles shared on this incident:

1). A FA was attacked not once, but twice by a passenger.
2). The flight crew requested immediate diversion as the flight was only at the midway point and was denied by the Captain
3). The FA refused medical assistance upon arrival at JFK

Now clearly #2 & #3 conflict. Why would the inflight crew request immediate diversion if no medical attention was required.

It’s not that far fetched to come to the assumption the Pilot *perhaps* didn’t feel the FA’s attack warranted a diversion. Anyone who’s worked in an inflight capacity (Pilot or FA) knows there’s a huge division between the two groups and tensions boil over at times. There are multiple documented cases of Pilots treating FA’s less than...

https://onemileatatime.com/pilot-flight ... ant-fight/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go ... d=66149077

I’m not here to smear anyone. But to act like there’s no possibility the Captain was being a tyrant and showing a lack of empathy and care for the FA is just ignorant. It happens everyday.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 7599
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: AA FA attacked inflight

Wed May 05, 2021 6:13 pm

None of us were on that plane as crew, hence it’s all pretty much useless, uninformed speculation that veers into insinuations that aren’t justified or favorable.

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