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AmericanAir88
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Fri May 07, 2021 4:00 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
aviationjunky wrote:
FLYKTPA wrote:

HVN:
MCO or SFB
TPA or PIE
RSW or PGD
FLL and/PBI
Maybe JAX or RDU
SAV, CHS, MYR, MSY, BNA etc.


I assume they will offer base-to-base flights, so I expect BUR-HVN to be a route. I wouldn't be surprised to see Florida (SFB, PIE, FLL), Ohio (DAY or CVG, LCK, CLE), and Texas (AUS, HOU, DAL, SAT). I'd also expect to see LAS, MDW, NYC, and maybe DEN.

I'm excited to see another low cost airlines enter the market to help alleviate the rising prices. Not to mention the growing demand for travel now that the vaccine has been rolled out.


I do not see bur-hvn non stop ever. If they need a link it will be an intermediate city. I would think HVN will be sun destinations like florida or the carolinas.


Didn’t AA axe HVN-CLT? Was it not performing well?
 
airlineworker
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Fri May 07, 2021 4:05 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
aviationjunky wrote:

I assume they will offer base-to-base flights, so I expect BUR-HVN to be a route. I wouldn't be surprised to see Florida (SFB, PIE, FLL), Ohio (DAY or CVG, LCK, CLE), and Texas (AUS, HOU, DAL, SAT). I'd also expect to see LAS, MDW, NYC, and maybe DEN.

I'm excited to see another low cost airlines enter the market to help alleviate the rising prices. Not to mention the growing demand for travel now that the vaccine has been rolled out.


I do not see bur-hvn non stop ever. If they need a link it will be an intermediate city. I would think HVN will be sun destinations like florida or the carolinas.


Didn’t AA axe HVN-CLT? Was it not performing well?


The flight to CLT was doing well and in July 2020, AA planned to offer two daily N/S to CLT. The virus killed those plans, the current flight to PHL is OK, but CLT offers many more connections.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Fri May 07, 2021 4:08 pm

dabpit wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

Wealthy people buy more plane tickets and just fly alot more. They often have relatives and friends in Florida and will travel for a weekend alot more often. Look how successful southwest is at SNA. Many are pretty big on value also. If Avelo offers convenient N/S flights to places they want to go in Florida it will be a hit. SW Connecticut is home to alot of frequent flyers


Yes I am aware, I've lived in CT recently. Avelo's service is the equivalent of G4, F9, e.t.c. though. If those carriers announced this service I guarantee people would not be citing the wealth of the zip codes as a reason the flights would be successful.


Actually, G4 talked about the medium income of their travelers in one of their quarterly presentations (before COVID) and it was rather high (I don’t remember the exact number, it was discussed in the G4 thread though) They know a large number of customers have money but like to be price sensitive and go for non-stop flights. So yes, demographics in terms of income matters to an airline like G4 and apparently Avelo.


You are referring to the 2018 presentation btw, and it showed most of their passengers were well below the average household income of the average US leisure traveler.

https://www.cirium.com/thoughtcloud/us- ... 9-outlook/

The case of G4, HVN is also much different.

G4’s median income is inflated since they serve many tiny airports, where the only options are G4, or a $400+ ticket each way.

HVN is not like this, given most passengers in the area are around an hour or less to BDL, PVD, HPN, or a NYC airport.
Last edited by Midwestindy on Fri May 07, 2021 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AmericanAir88
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Fri May 07, 2021 4:13 pm

airlineworker wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

I do not see bur-hvn non stop ever. If they need a link it will be an intermediate city. I would think HVN will be sun destinations like florida or the carolinas.


Didn’t AA axe HVN-CLT? Was it not performing well?


The flight to CLT was doing well and in July 2020, AA planned to offer two daily N/S to CLT. The virus killed those plans, the current flight to PHL is OK, but CLT offers many more connections.


CLT is a much better flight. Plus, it can offer drink service.

As a CT resident, I honestly do not see the appeal for me of flying HVN to PHL. Id rather just drive to LGA or JFK and take an AA flight out of there. Plus the facilities of LGA and JFK like lounges, alternative or plane swaps if flight gets delayed or cancelled, and food is so much available. New Terminal B is totally worth the drive to LGA. HVN is 40 minutes away from me, LGA is 50 min.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Fri May 07, 2021 4:36 pm

shamrock137 wrote:
Polot wrote:
Favre4 wrote:
EX - DELTA BIRDS

Would make sense. DL optioned them for take off performance so they would work well out of HVN.


What type of options were available to boost the performance on the -700?


I believe the DL 737-700s had 26K thrust engines. Lots of extra boost.

Various flavors of engine options on the -700

Engine Thrust

CFM56-7B26 26,100 lb
CFM56-7B26/B2 26,100 lb
CFM56-7B24 23,700 lb
CFM56-7B24/B1 23,700 lb
CFM56-7B22 22,000 lb
CFM56-7B20 19,700 lb
mercure f-wtcc
 
bigb
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Fri May 07, 2021 5:08 pm

catiii wrote:
bigb wrote:
Operating in and out of HVN in the past, that’s sketch with that runway and especially when the weather drops.


How so? Not sure what you operated in and out of HVN with that was so "sketch" but they're adding 1000' to the runway.


Would you like to review my logbook as well..... That 1000 addition isn’t there yet. One ILS approach with fairly high mins and the opposite end with a higher than standard glidepath. It’s a airport that triggered a lot of FOQA alerts for for my shop. Yeah, it’s a sketch airport with a sketch runway. That’s the reality
 
bigb
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Fri May 07, 2021 5:10 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
airlineworker wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:

Didn’t AA axe HVN-CLT? Was it not performing well?


The flight to CLT was doing well and in July 2020, AA planned to offer two daily N/S to CLT. The virus killed those plans, the current flight to PHL is OK, but CLT offers many more connections.


CLT is a much better flight. Plus, it can offer drink service.

As a CT resident, I honestly do not see the appeal for me of flying HVN to PHL. Id rather just drive to LGA or JFK and take an AA flight out of there. Plus the facilities of LGA and JFK like lounges, alternative or plane swaps if flight gets delayed or cancelled, and food is so much available. New Terminal B is totally worth the drive to LGA. HVN is 40 minutes away from me, LGA is 50 min.


I find that PHL facilities are much better than JFK and LGA especially good. But yes, there better alternative options if needed out of LGA or JFK.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Fri May 07, 2021 5:33 pm

This wont replace people driving to JFK/LGA for further non-stops or frequency people. Connecting in PHL was only for a small subset of people with the NYC airports N/S to everywhere so close. Thats why HVN had a reputation of Yale university airport that was the population with the most to gain by connecting, many don't have cars or they were flying on the universities dime to conferences etc. Connecting in PHL was easier for students then a train to a NYC airport. Flights to Florida or coastal carolina will be much better and easy to fill with O&D people and appeal to a much larger amount of people. CLT is very far from coastal carolina that was all about connections. There will always be people who those times work and the convenience is worth it to Florida. The airport is near millions of people
 
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Coronado990
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Fri May 07, 2021 6:02 pm

I'd throw in AVL & EYW as two possible destinations from HVN.
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Cubsrule
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Fri May 07, 2021 6:37 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
I'd throw in AVL & EYW as two possible destinations from HVN.


AVL certainly fits the mold of what they've done out of BUR, but is there enough demand? Maybe that's a fair question on most of these routes.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Yeastbeast
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Fri May 07, 2021 6:52 pm

This is the first time I've heard of this airline. A quick look at their route map shows that they fly into the Tri-Cities of WA. I wonder if they could be an option for my home airport BLI? We've got Alaskan and Allegient, a 3rd carrier would be nice.
Brewers make the wort, the yeast makes the beer.
 
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Coronado990
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Fri May 07, 2021 8:21 pm

Yeastbeast wrote:
This is the first time I've heard of this airline. A quick look at their route map shows that they fly into the Tri-Cities of WA. I wonder if they could be an option for my home airport BLI? We've got Alaskan and Allegient, a 3rd carrier would be nice.


How about Southwest?
Bonanza Air Lines. The original BZ.
 
airlineworker
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Fri May 07, 2021 8:51 pm

bigb wrote:
catiii wrote:
bigb wrote:
Operating in and out of HVN in the past, that’s sketch with that runway and especially when the weather drops.


How so? Not sure what you operated in and out of HVN with that was so "sketch" but they're adding 1000' to the runway.


Would you like to review my logbook as well..... That 1000 addition isn’t there yet. One ILS approach with fairly high mins and the opposite end with a higher than standard glidepath. It’s a airport that triggered a lot of FOQA alerts for for my shop. Yeah, it’s a sketch airport with a sketch runway. That’s the reality


The runway 20 approach is improved since last year, a large tree that was a thorn in the airports side for years was finally taken down. The 352 foot displaced threshold on runway 20 was supposed to be moved back pending FAA test flights, no word on when that will happen.
 
eastwood6
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Fri May 07, 2021 8:52 pm

I live less than 3 miles from HVN as the crow flies. AA's flights from HVN pre-COVID always seemed to be well patronized, both business and leisure. I'm Platinum Pro and would only clear upgrades half the time as there were more elites ahead of me - even a Concierge Key or two.

Happy to drive 10 minutes and connect in PHL or CLT vs. hour-plus drive to BDL (and still have to connect in PHL or CLT) or 90 - 120 minutes plus if lucky to drive to LGA or JFK.

Not sure what to make of Avelo or the airport redevelopment plans, but am an interested party.
 
socalspotter
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sat May 08, 2021 3:38 am

SWADawg wrote:
737-700’s eh? Wonder where they are getting those from. WN has been returning quite a few to lessors lately. Most were going to United, but maybe a few are heading to Avelo. I actually think the -700 would be a more appropriate Aircraft for Avelo in a lot of the small markets their serving.

N921WN (737-7H4) in fresh Avelo colors is sitting in SBD, just got painted at AeroPro.
 
gdavis003
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sat May 08, 2021 4:09 am

I am going to guess HVN-PIE/FLL/AVL/TVC/SAV. JQF is another place that crossed my mind.
 
Yeastbeast
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sat May 08, 2021 5:09 am

Coronado990 wrote:
Yeastbeast wrote:
This is the first time I've heard of this airline. A quick look at their route map shows that they fly into the Tri-Cities of WA. I wonder if they could be an option for my home airport BLI? We've got Alaskan and Allegient, a 3rd carrier would be nice.


How about Southwest?

Yeah, they're coming, no routes announced that I've seen yet. I fly mostly back east, so it's AS for me, but more options isn't a bad thing.
Brewers make the wort, the yeast makes the beer.
 
NJFlyer27
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sat May 08, 2021 10:54 am

Based on the western airports they fly to from Burbank, my predictions for Florida service are: Lakeland, Naples, Vero Beach, St. Augustine.

These airports don’t have commercial service expect for Vero Beach. Elite has been operating out of Vero Beach for a few years including a route from EWR.

Elite also tried service from Naples a few years ago as well.

Lakeland, good location for either Orlando or Tampa Bay.

St. Augustine, Skybus and Frontier have flown out of this airport previously.
 
micstatic
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sat May 08, 2021 1:38 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
In response to people saying MIA, ATL, RDU: With only 6 planes in their fleet and leaving out of HVN? I don’t see it happening for a while. HVN is not big enough to get regular service to MIA, RDU, and ATL.

I guess Avelo is not around long enough for me to get an idea of what they will do. It feels like Allegiant with the livery of pre-yellow Spirit. I hope they do well though, but does not cause trouble for F9, G4, or NK. I like those airlines

Anyway, was BDL ever supposed to get an expansion? I feel like BDL (An airport CT loves to advertise on I91 and I95) was due for one. I thought Sun Country may take a crack at it.



I think new haven could fill atl and miami. But I agree, I don't see them being early destinations. In a perfect world they could figure out a way to make Cobb County Airport KRYY work in Kennesaw, GA. Atlanta could really support a north suburb airport. Though issues with NIMBYs and Delta lobbying are problematic.
 
gdavis003
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sat May 08, 2021 4:44 pm

NJFlyer27 wrote:
Based on the western airports they fly to from Burbank, my predictions for Florida service are: Lakeland, Naples, Vero Beach, St. Augustine.

These airports don’t have commercial service expect for Vero Beach. Elite has been operating out of Vero Beach for a few years including a route from EWR.

Elite also tried service from Naples a few years ago as well.

Lakeland, good location for either Orlando or Tampa Bay.

St. Augustine, Skybus and Frontier have flown out of this airport previously.


Except that all of the airports that they fly to out of BUR have existing commercial service and the existing infrastructure to handle a mainline, narrowbody aircraft at their terminal facilities, except, as you noted, maybe VRB. However, I think their terminal is quite small, and I don't know if it's capable of doing much more than Elite Airways' CRJ flights to EWR.
 
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Coronado990
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sat May 08, 2021 6:13 pm

gdavis003 wrote:
NJFlyer27 wrote:
Based on the western airports they fly to from Burbank, my predictions for Florida service are: Lakeland, Naples, Vero Beach, St. Augustine.

These airports don’t have commercial service expect for Vero Beach. Elite has been operating out of Vero Beach for a few years including a route from EWR.

Elite also tried service from Naples a few years ago as well.

Lakeland, good location for either Orlando or Tampa Bay.

St. Augustine, Skybus and Frontier have flown out of this airport previously.


Except that all of the airports that they fly to out of BUR have existing commercial service and the existing infrastructure to handle a mainline, narrowbody aircraft at their terminal facilities, except, as you noted, maybe VRB. However, I think their terminal is quite small, and I don't know if it's capable of doing much more than Elite Airways' CRJ flights to EWR.


I thought that too until you throw OGD into the mix.
Bonanza Air Lines. The original BZ.
 
alohashirts
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sat May 08, 2021 6:55 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
gdavis003 wrote:
NJFlyer27 wrote:
Based on the western airports they fly to from Burbank, my predictions for Florida service are: Lakeland, Naples, Vero Beach, St. Augustine.

These airports don’t have commercial service expect for Vero Beach. Elite has been operating out of Vero Beach for a few years including a route from EWR.

Elite also tried service from Naples a few years ago as well.

Lakeland, good location for either Orlando or Tampa Bay.

St. Augustine, Skybus and Frontier have flown out of this airport previously.


Except that all of the airports that they fly to out of BUR have existing commercial service and the existing infrastructure to handle a mainline, narrowbody aircraft at their terminal facilities, except, as you noted, maybe VRB. However, I think their terminal is quite small, and I don't know if it's capable of doing much more than Elite Airways' CRJ flights to EWR.


I thought that too until you throw OGD into the mix.

OGD surprisingly has G4 service to AZA 2x weekly. I’ve heard that route is hanging on by a thread.

The way to look at OGD and the overall three Salt Lake metro area airports is similar to the LA area airports but on a smaller scale of course. OGD is to BUR, SLC is to LAX, and PVU is to SNA, if that makes any sense
 
catiii
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sat May 08, 2021 8:57 pm

socalspotter wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
737-700’s eh? Wonder where they are getting those from. WN has been returning quite a few to lessors lately. Most were going to United, but maybe a few are heading to Avelo. I actually think the -700 would be a more appropriate Aircraft for Avelo in a lot of the small markets their serving.

N921WN (737-7H4) in fresh Avelo colors is sitting in SBD, just got painted at AeroPro.


Ex Southwest...
 
sprxUSA
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sat May 08, 2021 10:29 pm

Yeastbeast wrote:
This is the first time I've heard of this airline. A quick look at their route map shows that they fly into the Tri-Cities of WA. I wonder if they could be an option for my home airport BLI? We've got Alaskan and Allegient, a 3rd carrier would be nice.


Sad to see Alaskan by a fellow member..... ;)
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
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sunking737
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sat May 08, 2021 11:33 pm

socalspotter wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
737-700’s eh? Wonder where they are getting those from. WN has been returning quite a few to lessors lately. Most were going to United, but maybe a few are heading to Avelo. I actually think the -700 would be a more appropriate Aircraft for Avelo in a lot of the small markets their serving.

N921WN (737-7H4) in fresh Avelo colors is sitting in SBD, just got painted at AeroPro.


Any photos yet?? Any Idea how many they are picking up??
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"
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CairnterriAIR
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sun May 09, 2021 12:58 am

NJFlyer27 wrote:
Based on the western airports they fly to from Burbank, my predictions for Florida service are: Lakeland, Naples, Vero Beach, St. Augustine.

These airports don’t have commercial service expect for Vero Beach. Elite has been operating out of Vero Beach for a few years including a route from EWR.

Elite also tried service from Naples a few years ago as well.

Lakeland, good location for either Orlando or Tampa Bay.

St. Augustine, Skybus and Frontier have flown out of this airport previously.


New Haven to Vero Beach will quickly earn the name AARP Express! It will be hugely popular with retirees!
 
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JetAwayDrew
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sun May 09, 2021 4:45 am

I was surprised to learn they were formally Xtra Airways, which Andrew Levy, the former CFO at United, purchased in August 2018 and proceeded to gut down to a single aircraft, which he retained to hold onto the Regularly Scheduled Air Service certificate before using all the extra capital to create a fresh airline, Avelo!
 
rnav2dlrey
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sun May 09, 2021 1:22 pm

What kills me about HVN is that it's so close, yet so far from, Amtrak's northeast corridor. I just don't see a way for a convenient and reliable train to plane service to be successful.

Its success will depend heavily on how deeply into Fairfield county it can claim as a catchment area, and most in that metro area (even the well-off) are familiar with riding commuter rail - much more so than the scenarios for PVD and BDL.

If a State Street-like station and MNR extension could be built to HVN, I could see that doing wonders for the airport. But there's way too many complications for that to happen.
 
Yeastbeast
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sun May 09, 2021 4:08 pm

sprxUSA wrote:
Yeastbeast wrote:
This is the first time I've heard of this airline. A quick look at their route map shows that they fly into the Tri-Cities of WA. I wonder if they could be an option for my home airport BLI? We've got Alaskan and Allegient, a 3rd carrier would be nice.


Sad to see Alaskan by a fellow member..... ;)

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airlineworker
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sun May 09, 2021 6:31 pm

rnav2dlrey wrote:
What kills me about HVN is that it's so close, yet so far from, Amtrak's northeast corridor. I just don't see a way for a convenient and reliable train to plane service to be successful.

Its success will depend heavily on how deeply into Fairfield county it can claim as a catchment area, and most in that metro area (even the well-off) are familiar with riding commuter rail - much more so than the scenarios for PVD and BDL.

If a State Street-like station and MNR extension could be built to HVN, I could see that doing wonders for the airport. But there's way too many complications for that to happen.


HVN is minutes from I-95 and I-91, rail service would not be practical. BDL has no rail service. HVN's market extends South from Stratford, inland to the valley, Ansonia, Derby, Shelton, Middletown, Waterbury and north on the shoreline to Old Saybrook. More than enough feed for a successful regional airport.
 
HVNandrew
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sun May 09, 2021 7:11 pm

gdavis003 wrote:
I am going to guess HVN-PIE/FLL/AVL/TVC/SAV. JQF is another place that crossed my mind.

I'd add MYR to the list. The area is very popular for second homes and vacations in SW CT. I think Orlando (probably at SFB) is a likely add as well.

I agree with others that a direct link to the BUR base is off the table; I'm not sure what could be an appropriate bridge city between the two, or if the operations would just be completely separate? Maybe MSY, or LAS if that were an option with the runway.
 
airlineworker
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sun May 09, 2021 7:34 pm

HVNandrew wrote:
gdavis003 wrote:
I am going to guess HVN-PIE/FLL/AVL/TVC/SAV. JQF is another place that crossed my mind.

I'd add MYR to the list. The area is very popular for second homes and vacations in SW CT. I think Orlando (probably at SFB) is a likely add as well.

I agree with others that a direct link to the BUR base is off the table; I'm not sure what could be an appropriate bridge city between the two, or if the operations would just be completely separate? Maybe MSY, or LAS if that were an option with the runway.


Has Avelo indicated the frequency of the flights? Will it be like G4 in flights several times a week. I think it's a great way to test the market. Wonder if AA will stay.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sun May 09, 2021 7:38 pm

airlineworker wrote:
HVNandrew wrote:
gdavis003 wrote:
I am going to guess HVN-PIE/FLL/AVL/TVC/SAV. JQF is another place that crossed my mind.

I'd add MYR to the list. The area is very popular for second homes and vacations in SW CT. I think Orlando (probably at SFB) is a likely add as well.

I agree with others that a direct link to the BUR base is off the table; I'm not sure what could be an appropriate bridge city between the two, or if the operations would just be completely separate? Maybe MSY, or LAS if that were an option with the runway.


Has Avelo indicated the frequency of the flights? Will it be like G4 in flights several times a week. I think it's a great way to test the market. Wonder if AA will stay.


Out of BUR, they have a couple of city-pairs that are daily like BUR-STS and BUR-AZA, but most are 3X to 4X per week. I would imagine if some city-pairs show consistent good loads, Avelo will add frequency.
 
AmericanAir88
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sun May 09, 2021 7:50 pm

I live in Southwestern CT. LGA is the same amount of time as HVN. LGA is also directly linked to the highway, while providing several more destinations, facilities, and airlines. I always use NYC airports, even EWR a lot as long as there is no cross bronx traffic.

HPN covers Danbury area.

HVN I would say appeals to Bridgeport, Southern-Mid Connecticut, Eastern CT, and maybe up to Mereidan. BDL is easier and has much more service for Waterbury and above.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Sun May 09, 2021 8:25 pm

Using the airports VERY generous catchment area data, LA appears to be strong but I think BUR-HVN would be a stretch, especially since it would eat up so much aircraft time & B6 is flying BDL-LAX.

I think HVN-PBI, RSW/PGD, PIE/TPA, or MCO/SFB/MLB would be logical targets, but there is a good chance they probably take on some destinations that BDL doesn't serve like CHS, JAX, or SAV

Image

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0231-0050

AmericanAir88 wrote:
I live in Southwestern CT. LGA is the same amount of time as HVN. LGA is also directly linked to the highway, while providing several more destinations, facilities, and airlines. I always use NYC airports, even EWR a lot as long as there is no cross bronx traffic.

HPN covers Danbury area.

HVN I would say appeals to Bridgeport, Southern-Mid Connecticut, Eastern CT, and maybe up to Mereidan. BDL is easier and has much more service for Waterbury and above.


This is the aggressive catchment area map the airport gave.

From my time living in CT, I'd say your assessment is more accurate. BDL is only around 50 miles from New Haven, so the HVN catchment can't really extend very far north. Plus some of their northwestern catchment might even bleed some to SWF, in addition to other bleed to HPN & NYC.

I'll be interested to see what happens, I think there is definitely a market for this service if they offer enough destinations.
Image

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0231-0050
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
aviationjunky
Posts: 423
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Mon May 10, 2021 2:51 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Image


With this info and their "expertise", I'd have to assume they're smart enough to know that Florida will be their target market from HVN, which isn't surprising. I still think we'll see them do HVN-BUR. But if they're going for the G4 model, they wont do Hub-Hub.

Do we know if they're going to allow connecting flights? Or strictly direct-flights only?
LAS is Life
 
catiii
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Mon May 10, 2021 3:02 pm

aviationjunky wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Image


With this info and their "expertise"


You question their expertise?
 
aviationjunky
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Mon May 10, 2021 3:26 pm

catiii wrote:
You question their expertise?


Starting an airline during a global pandemic isn't exactly an expert move...
LAS is Life
 
airlineworker
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Mon May 10, 2021 4:24 pm

aviationjunky wrote:
catiii wrote:
You question their expertise?


Starting an airline during a global pandemic isn't exactly an expert move...


The airline was planned before the pandemic. Unless the virus gets worse, passengers are returning in great numbers. I don't see HVN-BUR anytime soon, too far for a 737-700. UA years back had regular weight restrictions on 737 HVN-ORD flights. Florida is the way to go and keep area people from going to other airports.
 
BlueBaller
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Mon May 10, 2021 5:30 pm

aviationjunky wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Image


With this info and their "expertise", I'd have to assume they're smart enough to know that Florida will be their target market from HVN, which isn't surprising. I still think we'll see them do HVN-BUR. But if they're going for the G4 model, they wont do Hub-Hub.

Do we know if they're going to allow connecting flights? Or strictly direct-flights only?


Not a chance in he!! they try transcons from New Haven. The average block time from JFK-LAX is over 6 hours. 73G doesn't have the performance for that off a mile-long runway. Even if they went with the current model for maximum aircraft utilization - sent the aircraft westbound in the evening and redeye'd it back - they'd have to block so many seats, it would end up flying 2/3rds full best case scenario off basement bottom airfares, the profit margins just aren't there.
 
airlinepeanuts
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Mon May 10, 2021 5:32 pm

HVN-LAL would be interesting
 
catiii
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Mon May 10, 2021 6:18 pm

aviationjunky wrote:
catiii wrote:
You question their expertise?


Starting an airline during a global pandemic isn't exactly an expert move...


The pandemic is winding down in the United States, but when is a good time to start an airline in your clearly "expert" opinion?
 
ScottB
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Mon May 10, 2021 8:10 pm

rnav2dlrey wrote:
What kills me about HVN is that it's so close, yet so far from, Amtrak's northeast corridor. I just don't see a way for a convenient and reliable train to plane service to be successful.

Its success will depend heavily on how deeply into Fairfield county it can claim as a catchment area, and most in that metro area (even the well-off) are familiar with riding commuter rail - much more so than the scenarios for PVD and BDL.


Rail access really isn't important for an airport like HVN. The folks in Fairfield who can afford to fly also have cars, and the reasons one takes the train into NYC are because traffic is (normally) horrendous and parking is outrageous. Also, commuter parking lots often discourage passengers from using them for multi-day trips because this takes spaces away from daily commuters.

Further, apart from half of East Haven being between HVN and the NEC, the commuter service east of New Haven is Shore Line East rather than Metro-North -- so potential train-to-plane passengers would have to change trains in New Haven in both directions. It'd be more logical to just offer a shuttle bus from New Haven Union Station timed to connect with the MNRR.

Midwestindy wrote:
Using the airports VERY generous catchment area data


Yeah, I wouldn't count anything from I-84 north (apart from the area immediately around Waterbury) as being part of the catchment for HVN. CT 34 is just a wretched (although scenic) drive from Derby west to 84. CT 25 and US 7 aren't really any better. I mean, counting New Milford in the catchment? Come on. Also, does Shelton really generate as much traffic as that map seems to imply?
 
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SANFan
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Mon May 10, 2021 8:14 pm

Sorry all but Im very late to the Avelo party and only just looked at the route map. Is this carrier interested in connections or turning BUR/HVN into hubs or are they totally after local p-2-p traffic like G4? Obviously the current route map does not reveal many connecting possibilities other than perhaps AZA but of course I suspect most of the Avelo destinations are served nonstop from AZA by G4 or even from Sky Harbor by AA.

I wonder outloud because if they were interested in connections, they could certainly add a leg from BUR to SAN (and maybe other points like PSP?) and I would bet they would sell some local traffic plus perhaps several connections. The last attempt at SAN-BUR service was a few years ago and it didn't last long. But it was just seeking local traffic & had no points beyond to offer.

I see many markets such as GJT, OGD, PSC, ACV & RDD that would be sellable from SAN, cities without nonstop G4 or AS service currently or at least much of the year. Who knows, even SAN-HVN via BUR might work if such a transcon is ever offered by Avelo.

Inquiring minds and all that.... Thanks in advance for any input on this idea.

bb
 
catiii
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Mon May 10, 2021 8:26 pm

SANFan wrote:
Sorry all but Im very late to the Avelo party and only just looked at the route map. Is this carrier interested in connections or turning BUR/HVN into hubs or are they totally after local p-2-p traffic like G4? Obviously the current route map does not reveal many connecting possibilities other than perhaps AZA but of course I suspect most of the Avelo destinations are served nonstop from AZA by G4 or even from Sky Harbor by AA.

I wonder outloud because if they were interested in connections, they could certainly add a leg from BUR to SAN (and maybe other points like PSP?) and I would bet they would sell some local traffic plus perhaps several connections. The last attempt at SAN-BUR service was a few years ago and it didn't last long. But it was just seeking local traffic & had no points beyond to offer.

I see many markets such as GJT, OGD, PSC, ACV & RDD that would be sellable from SAN, cities without nonstop G4 or AS service currently or at least much of the year. Who knows, even SAN-HVN via BUR might work if such a transcon is ever offered by Avelo.

Inquiring minds and all that.... Thanks in advance for any input on this idea.

bb


Local P2P, although I imagine you could build some N/S itineraries in BUR.
 
airlineworker
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Tue May 11, 2021 1:40 am

ScottB wrote:
rnav2dlrey wrote:
What kills me about HVN is that it's so close, yet so far from, Amtrak's northeast corridor. I just don't see a way for a convenient and reliable train to plane service to be successful.

Its success will depend heavily on how deeply into Fairfield county it can claim as a catchment area, and most in that metro area (even the well-off) are familiar with riding commuter rail - much more so than the scenarios for PVD and BDL.


Rail access really isn't important for an airport like HVN. The folks in Fairfield who can afford to fly also have cars, and the reasons one takes the train into NYC are because traffic is (normally) horrendous and parking is outrageous. Also, commuter parking lots often discourage passengers from using them for multi-day trips because this takes spaces away from daily commuters.

Further, apart from half of East Haven being between HVN and the NEC, the commuter service east of New Haven is Shore Line East rather than Metro-North -- so potential train-to-plane passengers would have to change trains in New Haven in both directions. It'd be more logical to just offer a shuttle bus from New Haven Union Station timed to connect with the MNRR.

Midwestindy wrote:
Using the airports VERY generous catchment area data


Yeah, I wouldn't count anything from I-84 north (apart from the area immediately around Waterbury) as being part of the catchment for HVN. CT 34 is just a wretched (although scenic) drive from Derby west to 84. CT 25 and US 7 aren't really any better. I mean, counting New Milford in the catchment? Come on. Also, does Shelton really generate as much traffic as that map seems to imply?


Surely HVN can do much better than the present. There is a large market to draw from no matter what the numbers show.

Side note, "Southwest began scheduled passenger service on June 18, 1971 on two routes: between Dallas Love Field and Houston Intercontinental Airport (IAH) and between Dallas Love Field and San Antonio with three Boeing 737-200s."" 50 years later and it's HVN's turn.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Tue May 11, 2021 3:03 am

JetAwayDrew wrote:
I was surprised to learn they were formally Xtra Airways, which Andrew Levy, the former CFO at United, purchased in August 2018 and proceeded to gut down to a single aircraft, which he retained to hold onto the Regularly Scheduled Air Service certificate before using all the extra capital to create a fresh airline, Avelo!


"Destruction is a form of creation" -Donnie Darko
All opinions expressed herein are mine and do not represent the views of Cape Air
 
AmericanAir88
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Thu May 13, 2021 5:27 pm

https://www.courant.com/business/hc-biz ... utType=amp

Article highlights concerns about the effect on BDL.
 
jayspilot
Posts: 257
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Thu May 13, 2021 5:45 pm

I expect Florida and also expect to see some turns further south then Florida. Several airports in Puerto Rico can be done by a single crew as a very productive 8 hours block day or night turn.. think about some 10pm 9pm departures from HVN and a 7-8 am arrival followed by a fresh crew doing a Florida turn then an afternoon crew doing another Florida turn... JetBlue does this in JFK now.. I'm not talking daily but 1-2 per week and you can cover a lot of area..... Nassau, Aruba, and Cancun have preclearance, and Puerto Rico is a domestic flight as well so no us customs issues for turns their.. Aruba is too far for one crew so maybe that's not in the cards but anything less then 8 hours block can fall into the allegiant day trip model. Mechanical breakdowns would be an issue but you could do what I'm suggesting 3-4 turns a day on peak days with some crazy high aircraft utilization.
 
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dabpit
Posts: 965
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Re: Avelo Airlines To Create HVN Base

Thu May 13, 2021 6:23 pm

jayspilot wrote:
I expect Florida and also expect to see some turns further south then Florida. Several airports in Puerto Rico can be done by a single crew as a very productive 8 hours block day or night turn.. think about some 10pm 9pm departures from HVN and a 7-8 am arrival followed by a fresh crew doing a Florida turn then an afternoon crew doing another Florida turn... JetBlue does this in JFK now.. I'm not talking daily but 1-2 per week and you can cover a lot of area..... Nassau, Aruba, and Cancun have preclearance, and Puerto Rico is a domestic flight as well so no us customs issues for turns their.. Aruba is too far for one crew so maybe that's not in the cards but anything less then 8 hours block can fall into the allegiant day trip model. Mechanical breakdowns would be an issue but you could do what I'm suggesting 3-4 turns a day on peak days with some crazy high aircraft utilization.

Cancun is not a pre-clearance airport. Does HVN even have USCBP on property? If not then they can have zero international flights even to/from a pre-clearance airport.
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