Jeeze.........
Here we go again. This is totally normal, right?
Supposedly began with a loud argument on the plane. When they got kicked off, fists started flying in the concourse.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -mask.html

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/0 ... oor-video/

Video from Twitter:
https://twitter.com/johncardillo/status ... 0842394625

I believe they violated social distancing norms.

FlyingElvii wrote:

This is totally normal, right?

In Florida? Yes.

Not shocked
...at all

Which airline?

Someone83 wrote:

Which airline?

BS Airlines (BH/BSH). Flying from Jamaica.

As I said in the now locked thread about the fight enroute between Miami and New York City, in the past, the best brawls were at Chuck E Cheese. Now, with many Chuck E Cheese restaurants having limited operation, airports are "where the action is".

There are many great videos of fights at Chuck E Cheese on You Tube. Type in Chuck E Cheese Brawl, Chuck E Cheese Melee or Chuck E Cheese Fight to see them. One video shows a man holding his daughter with one arm while he punches a fellow Chuck E Cheese patron with his other arm. Another video shows a woman throwing a car seat at another Chuck E Cheese customer.

However, this is the third fight in 1 1/2 weeks either at MIA, or involving a flight that departed from MIA. It will be interesting to see how long it will be before the next fight involving MIA...

This is not fun. It should not happen. Were they arrested?

New airport code for Miami is going to UFC..... UNBELIEVABLE

The cynic in me wonders why no one has been shot in an airport, that happens pretty quickly outside of airports, is there some USA law against?
A lot of officers are walking around MIA armed with tasers and hand guns, somehow folks seem to think they are safe fighting in airports but not outside?

Besides the deplorable behavior, the one thing I have trouble understanding is why does it take so long for police to arrive? I would assume MIA has officers at a major airport like this. What was the response time? I don’t recall seeing any officers in 2 of the videos.

par13del wrote:

The cynic in me wonders why no one has been shot in an airport, that happens pretty quickly outside of airports, is there some USA law against?
A lot of officers are walking around MIA armed with tasers and hand guns, somehow folks seem to think they are safe fighting in airports but not outside?

Overwhelmingly (and with very few exceptions) those shot by police are armed with deadly weapons. Inside an airport past the security checkpoint there is an extremely low likelihood of the presence of deadly weapons. No cynicism necessary.

2eng2efficient wrote:

par13del wrote:

The cynic in me wonders why no one has been shot in an airport, that happens pretty quickly outside of airports, is there some USA law against?
A lot of officers are walking around MIA armed with tasers and hand guns, somehow folks seem to think they are safe fighting in airports but not outside?

The only officer-involved shooting that I am aware of at a U.S. airport was at MIA, albeit under very different circumstances:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shootin ... to_Alpizar

There was one at CMH in 2015 as well. Again, different circumstances.

https://www.latimes.com/nation/nationno ... story.html

Francoflier wrote:

FlyingElvii wrote:

This is totally normal, right?

In Florida? Yes.

In southeast Florida, yes. Most of the state is very civil, polite and old style southern charm.

Miami and the surrounded area? Ghetto.

Nobody likes this answer, but this behavior is directly tied to fares. When fares reach exceptionally low levels, you start to see more of this behavior onboard the aircraft and in the terminals. There's a reason ULCC carriers see more of this than mainline legacy carriers (at least pre-pandemic). It's the same reason this happens at Wal-Mart and not at Macy's.

FlyingElvii wrote:

Jeeze.........
Here we go again. This is totally normal, right?

It's Miami, so yes.

I am a pilot for a major US carrier and I stand in the jetway and greet every passenger that gets on the plane on every flight I work. I have to say, it's been my
observation that Miami is way out there by themselves on the bell curve as to passenger behavior; no other city we serve even coming close to the hostility
and disrespectful attitudes that we board there. Every other city I do that in, I do it to further our brand and have a laugh or two, but in Miami, I am doing it
to screen the passengers for potential aggression towards the flight attendants. In terms of getting a huge attitude if someone isn't complying with the 2 bag
or mask rules, the rest of the US is somewhere around .1-.2% of passengers. In Miami I would estimate it is 2-3%, hence all but guaranteeing a problem with
at least one of the passengers, if not several. Just worked a flight from there to Dallas yesterday - two disrespectful attitudes when I ask the one lady to put
her small purse inside a larger bag and another when I nicely ask lady who's mask red, "Fu*k em," to switch masks with one provided to her.

Planeboy17 wrote:

Besides the deplorable behavior, the one thing I have trouble understanding is why does it take so long for police to arrive? I would assume MIA has officers at a major airport like this. What was the response time? I don’t recall seeing any officers in 2 of the videos.

Response time for airport PD is always going to be lower than outside the airport.

1) Most officers aren't sitting in their cars waiting to drive to their next call. Even if they were, parking, getting to the nearest access point and then heading to the area isn't the fastest.
2) At most larger airports, Airport PD also has to staff some version of security desks that are at TSA checkpoints, there is a min percentage of time that they have to be there per the agreement with TSA (I know locally it is 50%)
3) Speed limits do apply, can't really weave through the ramp and taxiway at 50 mph as you would outside the airport.
4) From the time something is called in to the airport comm center (not 911), the dispatch time can be up to a minute as the info gets relayed across
5) The majority of officers tend to in my experience congregate outside security, not inside. Depending on the airport, it can take up to three minutes to get airside.

I always teach new agents, don't rely on calling airport PD, it'll take at least 5 minutes to get an adequate response. Call, but understand it isn't instantaneous.

Leave a suitcase unattended for 45 seconds and you'll have people with walkie-talkies all over you. Start fighting and authorities will take their sweet time. (and when will we learn how to take video? Horizontal, people. Horizontal.

Nobody likes this answer, but this behavior is directly tied to fares. When fares reach exceptionally low levels, you start to see more of this behavior onboard the aircraft and in the terminals. There's a reason ULCC carriers see more of this than mainline legacy carriers (at least pre-pandemic). It's the same reason this happens at Wal-Mart and not at Macy's.

You're not wrong!

Remember the seventies? I do, getting served meals on actual china, beverages in glassware, real metal flatware... Yes, it was expensive, and yes, you dressed up to fly, but you were paying for a great experience, not just transportation. Nowadays, its all about the lowest common denominator, in terms of low fares and even lower personal class from many people.

"To fly on XYZ Airways it is required that a mask be worn at all times. It is recommended that you have a basic knowledge of Martial Arts. Enjoy your flight"

Murdoughnut wrote:

Nobody likes this answer, but this behavior is directly tied to fares. When fares reach exceptionally low levels, you start to see more of this behavior onboard the aircraft and in the terminals. There's a reason ULCC carriers see more of this than mainline legacy carriers (at least pre-pandemic). It's the same reason this happens at Wal-Mart and not at Macy's.

Sort of this. ULCCs have opened up air travel to people who would otherwise not travel by air. Therefore, said people don't necessarily understand how to handle the stresses of air travel - rigid rules, cramped seats, delays, etc., which can cause the altercations.

However, ULCCs cause the problem as well. Ever have a flight cancelled by a ULCC...their response? Sorry, no other flights so here's a refund of your fare. Nevermind that the traveler probably worked extra hard or saved a long time for the vacation.

Inexperienced traveler + "Oh well" attitude from ULCC = altercations. it takes two to tango.

2eng2efficient wrote:

par13del wrote:

The cynic in me wonders why no one has been shot in an airport, that happens pretty quickly outside of airports, is there some USA law against?
A lot of officers are walking around MIA armed with tasers and hand guns, somehow folks seem to think they are safe fighting in airports but not outside?

The only officer-involved shooting that I am aware of at a U.S. airport was at MIA, albeit under very different circumstances:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shootin ... to_Alpizar

Wasn't there one in LAX? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Los_ ... t_shooting

Wow loved it. Can we go any lower? Are those people identified, fined $100,000 each and sent to jail for a year at least? Because this crap has to stop.

EBiafore99 wrote:

Murdoughnut wrote:

Nobody likes this answer, but this behavior is directly tied to fares. When fares reach exceptionally low levels, you start to see more of this behavior onboard the aircraft and in the terminals. There's a reason ULCC carriers see more of this than mainline legacy carriers (at least pre-pandemic). It's the same reason this happens at Wal-Mart and not at Macy's.

Sort of this. ULCCs have opened up air travel to people who would otherwise not travel by air. Therefore, said people don't necessarily understand how to handle the stresses of air travel - rigid rules, cramped seats, delays, etc., which can cause the altercations.

However, ULCCs cause the problem as well. Ever have a flight cancelled by a ULCC...their response? Sorry, no other flights so here's a refund of your fare. Nevermind that the traveler probably worked extra hard or saved a long time for the vacation.

Inexperienced traveler + "Oh well" attitude from ULCC = altercations. it takes two to tango.

Are there often fisticuffs on ULCCs other than in America, or is this strictly an American phenomenon?

Murdoughnut wrote:

Nobody likes this answer, but this behavior is directly tied to fares. When fares reach exceptionally low levels, you start to see more of this behavior onboard the aircraft and in the terminals. There's a reason ULCC carriers see more of this than mainline legacy carriers (at least pre-pandemic). It's the same reason this happens at Wal-Mart and not at Macy's.

Flawed logic - you also see this at the stands at sports games, and sometimes that crowd is paying top dollar for those seats.

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:

New airport code for Miami is going to UFC..... UNBELIEVABLE

No need to change the code... MIA already stands for Many Incidents (of) Assault

I (normally ) fly a lot both onboard legacy and low cost airlines and have fortunately never seen something like this.
From my experience drunk people are the biggest danger on board. I once even had to change my seat with the help of some flight attendant because somebody drunk right behind me was starting to become aggressive for no reason. Banning alcohol on board or already drunk people from boarding would help.

alasizon wrote:

Planeboy17 wrote:

Besides the deplorable behavior, the one thing I have trouble understanding is why does it take so long for police to arrive? I would assume MIA has officers at a major airport like this. What was the response time? I don’t recall seeing any officers in 2 of the videos.

Response time for airport PD is always going to be lower than outside the airport.

1) Most officers aren't sitting in their cars waiting to drive to their next call. Even if they were, parking, getting to the nearest access point and then heading to the area isn't the fastest.
2) At most larger airports, Airport PD also has to staff some version of security desks that are at TSA checkpoints, there is a min percentage of time that they have to be there per the agreement with TSA (I know locally it is 50%)
3) Speed limits do apply, can't really weave through the ramp and taxiway at 50 mph as you would outside the airport.
4) From the time something is called in to the airport comm center (not 911), the dispatch time can be up to a minute as the info gets relayed across
5) The majority of officers tend to in my experience congregate outside security, not inside. Depending on the airport, it can take up to three minutes to get airside.

I always teach new agents, don't rely on calling airport PD, it'll take at least 5 minutes to get an adequate response. Call, but understand it isn't instantaneous.

Really, it's that common? I have regularly seen airport police, or even city or sheriffs, walking around the secure areas or even on bikes. And with all the cameras arounds, seems response could be quick. Some of these videos are only 30 seconds so we're not seeing the whole event.

cschleic wrote:

alasizon wrote:

Planeboy17 wrote:

Besides the deplorable behavior, the one thing I have trouble understanding is why does it take so long for police to arrive? I would assume MIA has officers at a major airport like this. What was the response time? I don’t recall seeing any officers in 2 of the videos.

Response time for airport PD is always going to be lower than outside the airport.

1) Most officers aren't sitting in their cars waiting to drive to their next call. Even if they were, parking, getting to the nearest access point and then heading to the area isn't the fastest.
2) At most larger airports, Airport PD also has to staff some version of security desks that are at TSA checkpoints, there is a min percentage of time that they have to be there per the agreement with TSA (I know locally it is 50%)
3) Speed limits do apply, can't really weave through the ramp and taxiway at 50 mph as you would outside the airport.
4) From the time something is called in to the airport comm center (not 911), the dispatch time can be up to a minute as the info gets relayed across
5) The majority of officers tend to in my experience congregate outside security, not inside. Depending on the airport, it can take up to three minutes to get airside.

I always teach new agents, don't rely on calling airport PD, it'll take at least 5 minutes to get an adequate response. Call, but understand it isn't instantaneous.

Really, it's that common? I have regularly seen airport police, or even city or sheriffs, walking around the secure areas or even on bikes. And with all the cameras arounds, seems response could be quick. Some of these videos are only 30 seconds so we're not seeing the whole event.

Its not quick though. My airport used to have roughly 5 minute response times when we had a direct line to the airport police. A few years back some genius got the bright idea to integrate airport police dispatching into the county 911 system. Since then, response times have grown to 10-12 minutes on average. Sometimes you get lucky and there are officers nearby who actually witness an incident but more often than not they aren't. It seems that the 911 routing and dispatching alone takes 5 minutes in and of itself and then the officers still have to get to where they are needed. There will come a time when someone gets seriously injured due to the long response times. Until then nothing will change.

phatfarmlines wrote:

Murdoughnut wrote:

Nobody likes this answer, but this behavior is directly tied to fares. When fares reach exceptionally low levels, you start to see more of this behavior onboard the aircraft and in the terminals. There's a reason ULCC carriers see more of this than mainline legacy carriers (at least pre-pandemic). It's the same reason this happens at Wal-Mart and not at Macy's.

Flawed logic - you also see this at the stands at sports games, and sometimes that crowd is paying top dollar for those seats.

That's not a good comparison: sports fans are often passionate about their teams, and those emotions spill-over during games (especially after a few beers). Airline travelers can't be expected to have that type of emotional attachment; these fights are personal. Although, again, a few drinks may exacerbate the problem.

EBiafore99 wrote:

However, ULCCs cause the problem as well. Ever have a flight cancelled by a ULCC...their response? Sorry, no other flights so here's a refund of your fare. Nevermind that the traveler probably worked extra hard or saved a long time for the vacation.

Inexperienced traveler + "Oh well" attitude from ULCC = altercations. it takes two to tango.

Take the typical over-booking situation:

Airline to passenger: You should have arrived earlier!

That isn't going to create more seats, is it?

It's a pathetic situation airlines have created. Blame the customer when the airline is enriching itself by selling more seats than the plane has, if they complain say, well, this is normal, you should have gotten here earlier, but all that does is piss off a different set of customers. Blaming the customer when so many things are out of their control, such as delayed connections or unusual road traffic patterns, just creates so many future problems. No one's gonna fly if you have to get their so freaking early you might as well have driven or taken a train.

i watched the video
it's heartbreaking and hard to watch
there are many reasons to become frustrated while traveling
that video is not showing an appropriate response
its heartbreaking

Curiousflyer wrote:

Wow loved it. Can we go any lower? Are those people identified, fined $100,000 each and sent to jail for a year at least? Because this crap has to stop.

100k fine?

That’s “disorderly conduct” and ROR in any major city in the US in my experience.

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

i watched the video
it's heartbreaking and hard to watch
there are many reasons to become frustrated while traveling
that video is not showing an appropriate response
its heartbreaking

Most of us have predicted the air travel industry's race to the bottom would have to conclude at some point.

Seats you can't get comfortable in, bathrooms you can't get comfortable in, security indignities, fees for every little thing, on-going over-booking, it all adds up.

It wouldn't surprise me if it all gets to the point of being unmanageable, and the only way out is uniform regulation of such things.

I agree with you about the race to the bottom. When I was in the industry I actually loved flying and have been everywhere. Now when I fly it’s just not fun anymore. The airlines are not innocent themselves either with cramming planes full and taking away services that have always been included.

Revelation wrote:

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

i watched the video
it's heartbreaking and hard to watch
there are many reasons to become frustrated while traveling
that video is not showing an appropriate response
its heartbreaking

Most of us have predicted the air travel industry's race to the bottom would have to conclude at some point.

Seats you can't get comfortable in, bathrooms you can't get comfortable in, security indignities, fees for every little thing, on-going over-booking, it all adds up.

It wouldn't surprise me if it all gets to the point of being unmanageable, and the only way out is uniform regulation of such things.

Planeboy17 wrote:

Besides the deplorable behavior, the one thing I have trouble understanding is why does it take so long for police to arrive? I would assume MIA has officers at a major airport like this. What was the response time? I don’t recall seeing any officers in 2 of the videos.

The videos were FROM the officers bodycams.

Another week, another incident in Miami. Both flights were bound for Chicago. Total ignorant people that should be ashamed of their behavior, but I am sure they aren't.

Noshow wrote:

This is not fun. It should not happen. Were they arrested?

I have my ad blocker on and don't really want to disable it for anything, but if this was in Florida, no. They were not arrested. Don't be surprised if the anti-mask association starts rumors about awarding medals. "Ain't nobody comin' after mah freedumb!"

Murdoughnut wrote:

Nobody likes this answer, but this behavior is directly tied to fares. When fares reach exceptionally low levels, you start to see more of this behavior onboard the aircraft and in the terminals. There's a reason ULCC carriers see more of this than mainline legacy carriers (at least pre-pandemic). It's the same reason this happens at Wal-Mart and not at Macy's.

Very true...
I remember the first time I saw an actual trash bag full of clothes as checked luggage coming down the belt off ProAir from DET. In the weeks and months that followed, you would see as many as 20 on a single flight. Even People’s didn’t have that.

FlyingElvii wrote:

Jeeze.........
Here we go again. This is totally normal, right?
Supposedly began with a loud argument on the plane. When they got kicked off, fists started flying in the concourse.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -mask.html

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/0 ... oor-video/

Video from Twitter:
https://twitter.com/johncardillo/status ... 0842394625

Ufsatp wrote:

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

Florida lives up to its reputation.

Reputation? Not the Florida that I live in. However when have had our share of New York moving down here over the last year. It is a changing. #dontnewyorkmyflorida.

Go to Miami Beach 5 nights out of the week and you won't be surprised this is happening at the airport

Since around March, Miami Beach has been way rowdier than normal, and that is saying something......

NLINK wrote:

I agree with you about the race to the bottom. When I was in the industry I actually loved flying and have been everywhere. Now when I fly it’s just not fun anymore. The airlines are not innocent themselves either with cramming planes full and taking away services that have always been included.

Revelation wrote:

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

i watched the video
it's heartbreaking and hard to watch
there are many reasons to become frustrated while traveling
that video is not showing an appropriate response
its heartbreaking

Most of us have predicted the air travel industry's race to the bottom would have to conclude at some point.

Seats you can't get comfortable in, bathrooms you can't get comfortable in, security indignities, fees for every little thing, on-going over-booking, it all adds up.

It wouldn't surprise me if it all gets to the point of being unmanageable, and the only way out is uniform regulation of such things.

I agree. As someone who has flown a lot since 1970 flying is not fun anymore. I used to go to FL a lot as my parents lived on the west coast for 18 years. I am out of PHX so would often take AA to MIA and either rent a car or hop over to APF. My last trip there was about 2007. MIA was always a nice airport to pass through and I never saw any problems. It is a shame.

I know some people said this is a Miami thing, but uhmm, this kind of behavior is quite normal in Orlando, Tampa or Jacksonville. It's a Florida thing.

Curiousflyer wrote:

Wow loved it. Can we go any lower? Are those people identified, fined $100,000 each and sent to jail for a year at least? Because this crap has to stop.

I'll go way out on a limb here and guess that none of these extremely classy individuals have $100K to pay such a fine.
Just when I thought things couldn't sink any lower in air travel. I'm proven wrong again

ER757 wrote:

Curiousflyer wrote:

Wow loved it. Can we go any lower? Are those people identified, fined $100,000 each and sent to jail for a year at least? Because this crap has to stop.

I'll go way out on a limb here and guess that none of these extremely classy individuals have $100K to pay such a fine.
Just when I thought things couldn't sink any lower in air travel. I'm proven wrong again

They have time for jail and they deserve to be ruined for a while. If they just get a slap on the wrist it will happen again.

ewt340 wrote:

I know some people said this is a Miami thing, but uhmm, this kind of behavior is quite normal in Orlando, Tampa or Jacksonville. It's a Florida thing.

Uh, no, it’s not. As someone who’s lived in various cities around Florida (Tallahassee, Tampa, Orlando) this crap doesn’t happen. This is third incident in a row in as many weeks and the one common denominator is MIA. NOT Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa or any other city in Florida.

Sokes wrote:

I believe they violated social distancing norms.

They need to train the cabin crew as referees. Give them a bell and a whistle. Let passengers place bets via the inflight entertainment system, etc.