Delta Network Thread - 2021

gwrudolph · Sun May 09, 2021 12:48 am

Brickell305 wrote:
So UA is starting DBV from EWR and Pragusa is flying DBV-EWR and DBV-LAX. People talked about ATH but this is clearly a sign of overkill. There wasn't this much demand to DBV even in good times. Yes, I know it may get some book away traffic from other Euro destinations but I still find this to be a whole lot.

Agree. That’s a lot of capacity in an otherwise thin market. Will be interesting. I suppose, however, a half full flight to ATH or DBV beats an empty flight to business market like Tokyo. Sitting idle probably isn’t a great alternative either since you’re paying to have aircraft stored in the desert and paying for pilot and flight attendants regardless. Might as well fly I suppose. At this point, your incremental costs are mostly fuel and burning green time on the aircraft.

Blerg · Sun May 09, 2021 2:50 am

KLM will be also making a comeback in DBV after 32 years. Daily flights are planned from June to be operated by a mix of B737 and E90.

https://www.croatianaviation.com/post/n ... -dubrovnik

panamair · Sun May 09, 2021 12:03 pm

skymiler wrote:
The announcement states 4 trips weekly, but I can not find the flights on the Delta Web site, searching after July 2. Are they bookable yet? It is possible that I am missing something. I see that there are connections available via AF ... Thank you for any information

The nonstops have now been loaded for sale. First flight out of JFK on July 2.

jfklganyc · Sun May 09, 2021 12:32 pm

Covid Politics aside, the United States is open for business. As you can see by the huge numbers of domestic travelers, Americans want to travel.

They want to go to Europe, but they want to go to Europe that’s like Florida... Open!

From a friend at United, Athens and DBV Are all about meeting Americans expectations… Open!

They don’t want today go to Paris if they have to sit outside. They are not interested in German lockdowns. They want to travel someplace that is open.

Advantage to the smaller countries that are doing that. Even if a fraction of the tourists come, They will have a good year. certainly better than the last year

PITFlyer330 · Fri May 14, 2021 3:12 pm

DL adding Boston to Dallas, Charlotte, Toronto, and New York laguardia to Toronto.

https://twitter.com/AirlineFlyer/status ... 52544?s=20

Wacko55 · Fri May 14, 2021 5:35 pm

PITFlyer330 wrote:
DL adding Boston to Dallas, Charlotte, Toronto, and New York laguardia to Toronto.

https://twitter.com/AirlineFlyer/status ... 52544?s=20

Still nothing added to their Austin "fauxcus" city!

PITFlyer330 · Fri May 14, 2021 5:45 pm

Wacko55 wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:
DL adding Boston to Dallas, Charlotte, Toronto, and New York laguardia to Toronto.

https://twitter.com/AirlineFlyer/status ... 52544?s=20

Still nothing added to their Austin "fauxcus" city!

Aha thats true but delta is waking up so perhaps we will see something next Friday?

jbs2886 · Fri May 14, 2021 5:47 pm

PITFlyer330 wrote:
Wacko55 wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:
DL adding Boston to Dallas, Charlotte, Toronto, and New York laguardia to Toronto.

https://twitter.com/AirlineFlyer/status ... 52544?s=20

Still nothing added to their Austin "fauxcus" city!

Aha thats true but delta is waking up so perhaps we will see something next Friday?

Except this was a BOS and LGA announcement, and DL already flies to AUS from both cities?

AC4500 · Fri May 14, 2021 5:52 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:
Wacko55 wrote:

Still nothing added to their Austin "fauxcus" city!

Aha thats true but delta is waking up so perhaps we will see something next Friday?

Except this was a BOS and LGA announcement, and DL already flies to AUS from both cities?

I think they're talking about a DL AUS-related announcement in general.

PITFlyer330 · Fri May 14, 2021 5:56 pm

AC4500 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:

Aha thats true but delta is waking up so perhaps we will see something next Friday?

Except this was a BOS and LGA announcement, and DL already flies to AUS from both cities?

I think they're talking about a DL AUS-related announcement in general.

Yes delta says it will focus on austin but it hasnt really done anything

https://twitter.com/ByERussell/status/1 ... 78531?s=20

jbs2886 · Fri May 14, 2021 6:01 pm

PITFlyer330 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

Except this was a BOS and LGA announcement, and DL already flies to AUS from both cities?

I think they're talking about a DL AUS-related announcement in general.

Yes delta says it will focus on austin but it hasnt really done anything

https://twitter.com/ByERussell/status/1 ... 78531?s=20

I'm aware DL has said that, but since DL already flies BOS and LGA from AUS, it isn't really relevant to this announcement.

TropicalSky · Sat May 15, 2021 7:34 pm

Curious.... when did SYDNEY go daily again?

PITFlyer330 · Sat May 15, 2021 7:47 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
Curious.... when did SYDNEY go daily again?

I think it was March or April someone tell me if im wrong

ChrisNH38 · Sat May 15, 2021 8:34 pm

Would it be a smart play for DL to add A350 service at BOS for services to Asia? HU and CX are gone from BOS, and nothing would say ‘commitment to Boston’ more than that (AA flexing its muscles at Logan).

MIflyer12 · Sat May 15, 2021 8:46 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
Would it be a smart play for DL to add A350 service at BOS for services to Asia? HU and CX are gone from BOS, and nothing would say ‘commitment to Boston’ more than that (AA flexing its muscles at Logan).

Eh. DL wasn't doing Asia services even from JFK. Sure, there's less competition at BOS but it's a smaller market, too. Leveraging the KE JV and KE's 787s sounds like a lower risk plan to me.

kavok · Sat May 15, 2021 9:31 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
Would it be a smart play for DL to add A350 service at BOS for services to Asia? HU and CX are gone from BOS, and nothing would say ‘commitment to Boston’ more than that (AA flexing its muscles at Logan).

The bigger question is where to in Asia? The two obvious:

Tokyo- Delta no longer serves NRT, and is not allowed to serve HND-BOS.

Seoul- KE serves BOS-ICN, and thus via the JV, DL also serves BOS-ICN. For a number of reasons, it probably makes more sense for KE to fly this route instead of DL, even though they are technically the same via the JV.

Beyond that:
KIX/NGO/HKG - DL can’t make these work from SEA in good times, so BOS is not going to work.

PVG - While I don’t see it, this would be the most likely BOS-Asia on DL metal IMO. Currently served via DTW & SEA (via ICN tech stop). Also PreCovid LAX and ATL had PVG service. ATL-PVG is gone for the foreseeable future, and DL never saw it worth trying JFK/MSP-PVG, so again I doubt BOS would be in the cards.

PEK/PKX- served previously through DTW/SEA. But if DL didn’t think it was worth trying from LAX, ATL, or JFK, it is not going to work from BOS either.

jplatts · Sat May 15, 2021 9:44 pm

kavok wrote:
KIX/NGO/HKG - DL can’t make these work from SEA in good times, so BOS is not going to work.

While DL might have struggled to make SEA-KIX nonstop service work prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, JL might be able to make SEA-KIX nonstop service work once demand recovers with
(a) the JL-AS partnership,
(b) JL having stronger Japanese point-of-sale than DL, and
(c) JL being able to more easily connect passengers to more markets from KIX with AA/AS serving more destinations nonstop from SEA than DL.

rjbesikof · Sat May 15, 2021 10:53 pm

A bunch of changes to Italy flying:
1) ATL-FCO goes to daily on 5/26.
2) JFK-FCO goes to daily on 7/1.
3) JFK-VCE resumes 7/2.
4) ATL-VCE resumes 8/5 and BOS-FCO will inaugurate on 8/5 as well.
https://news.delta.com/italy-reopens-le ... ed-flights

ContinentalEWR · Sun May 16, 2021 11:53 am

ChrisNH38 wrote:
Would it be a smart play for DL to add A350 service at BOS for services to Asia? HU and CX are gone from BOS, and nothing would say ‘commitment to Boston’ more than that (AA flexing its muscles at Logan).

No. The A350 is too much plane for DL to serve BOS-Asia and it doesn't have anything else that has the legs to do it. The airline's main connecting hubs in Asia are ICN and PVG. KE already flies BOS-ICN does it not? That's more than enough. PVG is a market that is a year or more from returning. Everything else for Delta in Asia is P2P from Boston and would struggle. Delta's TPAC network is not small but it was in realignment before COVID and will be smaller post-COVID. You only need to look at DL's TPAC network, pre-COVID out of SEA, for clues. It struggled on many routes. Boston would be even tougher.

alohashirts · Sun May 16, 2021 12:23 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
Would it be a smart play for DL to add A350 service at BOS for services to Asia? HU and CX are gone from BOS, and nothing would say ‘commitment to Boston’ more than that (AA flexing its muscles at Logan).

No. The A350 is too much plane for DL to serve BOS-Asia and it doesn't have anything else that has the legs to do it. The airline's main connecting hubs in Asia are ICN and PVG. KE already flies BOS-ICN does it not? That's more than enough. PVG is a market that is a year or more from returning. Everything else for Delta in Asia is P2P from Boston and would struggle. Delta's TPAC network is not small but it was in realignment before COVID and will be smaller post-COVID. You only need to look at DL's TPAC network, pre-COVID out of SEA, for clues. It struggled on many routes. Boston would be even tougher.

Do you have stats and figures to show that a BOS-Asia flight would struggle on DL?

onwFan · Sun May 16, 2021 12:38 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
Would it be a smart play for DL to add A350 service at BOS for services to Asia? HU and CX are gone from BOS, and nothing would say ‘commitment to Boston’ more than that (AA flexing its muscles at Logan).

CX is not gone from BOS - they still plan to resume the route and is still loaded... BOS to China will still be on an Chinese carrier, none of the US3. If DL launches an Asia route from the Northeast, it will most likely be JFK-ICN, and I see that happening relatively soon with the KE/OZ merger.

tphuang · Sun May 16, 2021 1:15 pm

alohashirts wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
Would it be a smart play for DL to add A350 service at BOS for services to Asia? HU and CX are gone from BOS, and nothing would say ‘commitment to Boston’ more than that (AA flexing its muscles at Logan).

No. The A350 is too much plane for DL to serve BOS-Asia and it doesn't have anything else that has the legs to do it. The airline's main connecting hubs in Asia are ICN and PVG. KE already flies BOS-ICN does it not? That's more than enough. PVG is a market that is a year or more from returning. Everything else for Delta in Asia is P2P from Boston and would struggle. Delta's TPAC network is not small but it was in realignment before COVID and will be smaller post-COVID. You only need to look at DL's TPAC network, pre-COVID out of SEA, for clues. It struggled on many routes. Boston would be even tougher.

Do you have stats and figures to show that a BOS-Asia flight would struggle on DL?

Have you looked at some of the fare data from US to Asia? TPAC capacity will be down for a long time.

ContinentalEWR · Sun May 16, 2021 1:39 pm

alohashirts wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
Would it be a smart play for DL to add A350 service at BOS for services to Asia? HU and CX are gone from BOS, and nothing would say ‘commitment to Boston’ more than that (AA flexing its muscles at Logan).

No. The A350 is too much plane for DL to serve BOS-Asia and it doesn't have anything else that has the legs to do it. The airline's main connecting hubs in Asia are ICN and PVG. KE already flies BOS-ICN does it not? That's more than enough. PVG is a market that is a year or more from returning. Everything else for Delta in Asia is P2P from Boston and would struggle. Delta's TPAC network is not small but it was in realignment before COVID and will be smaller post-COVID. You only need to look at DL's TPAC network, pre-COVID out of SEA, for clues. It struggled on many routes. Boston would be even tougher.

Do you have stats and figures to show that a BOS-Asia flight would struggle on DL?

Demand to Asia is down across the board, and the bread and butter that makes these long stage flights profitable is sales (not upgrades) in the front cabin. Businesses and employees will be skittish to travel to many parts of Asia for some time (after much success in keeping infection and transmission rates lower, they have spiked in places like Japan, South Korea, Singapore, and Thailand) recently though the numbers aren't on par with what the US and Europe experienced in 2020 or earlier this year. The only potentially viable route would be PVG and that's not likely to see a whole lot of demand for some time, partly due to hesitation on travel and the crew change, stop over issues, which make the flights costly and probably not profitable. Think that's all the data needed right now. Further out into the future, it's possible, but I don't see DL flying BOS-Asia in the next couple of years.

kavok · Sun May 16, 2021 2:19 pm

onwFan wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
Would it be a smart play for DL to add A350 service at BOS for services to Asia? HU and CX are gone from BOS, and nothing would say ‘commitment to Boston’ more than that (AA flexing its muscles at Logan).

CX is not gone from BOS - they still plan to resume the route and is still loaded... BOS to China will still be on an Chinese carrier, none of the US3. If DL launches an Asia route from the Northeast, it will most likely be JFK-ICN, and I see that happening relatively soon with the KE/OZ merger.

Agreed.

As far as BOS goes, I actually somewhat expect JL to launch HND-BOS with one of their unused HND-USA slots. It would be another card OW could play against DL in BOS, and given the size of the Tokyo market, it would be totally reasonable once demand picks back up. Further, it is a route DL can’t retaliate against, because DL isn’t allowed to fly BOS-HND.

Lootess · Mon May 17, 2021 5:52 pm

kavok wrote:
onwFan wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
Would it be a smart play for DL to add A350 service at BOS for services to Asia? HU and CX are gone from BOS, and nothing would say ‘commitment to Boston’ more than that (AA flexing its muscles at Logan).

CX is not gone from BOS - they still plan to resume the route and is still loaded... BOS to China will still be on an Chinese carrier, none of the US3. If DL launches an Asia route from the Northeast, it will most likely be JFK-ICN, and I see that happening relatively soon with the KE/OZ merger.

Agreed.

As far as BOS goes, I actually somewhat expect JL to launch HND-BOS with one of their unused HND-USA slots. It would be another card OW could play against DL in BOS, and given the size of the Tokyo market, it would be totally reasonable once demand picks back up. Further, it is a route DL can’t retaliate against, because DL isn’t allowed to fly BOS-HND.

JAL already has 788 service on NRT-BOS, it was actually one of their first 787 routes (the famous first battery fire on the ground at BOS).

kavok · Mon May 17, 2021 6:03 pm

Lootess wrote:
kavok wrote:
onwFan wrote:
CX is not gone from BOS - they still plan to resume the route and is still loaded... BOS to China will still be on an Chinese carrier, none of the US3. If DL launches an Asia route from the Northeast, it will most likely be JFK-ICN, and I see that happening relatively soon with the KE/OZ merger.

Agreed.

As far as BOS goes, I actually somewhat expect JL to launch HND-BOS with one of their unused HND-USA slots. It would be another card OW could play against DL in BOS, and given the size of the Tokyo market, it would be totally reasonable once demand picks back up. Further, it is a route DL can’t retaliate against, because DL isn’t allowed to fly BOS-HND.

JAL already has 788 service on NRT-BOS, it was actually one of their first 787 routes (the famous first battery fire on the ground at BOS).

True. And the question is more should JAL continue to fly BOS-NRT, or switch to BOS-HND. HND is obviously better for Tokyo bound pax, but NRT offers more onward Asian connection opportunities. I doubt there is enough demand for both, especially right now. But BOS-HND was never an option (practically speaking, given the very limited slots) for JAL pre2020, whereas now BOS-HND is possible (for JAL) given the HND-USA slot increases.

AC4500 · Tue May 18, 2021 5:15 pm

LAX-SAN returns on July 17th; 1x daily SkyWest E175:

DL 3790 | LAX-SAN: 9:56 PM - 10:56 PM
DL 3788 | SAN-LAX: 6:40 AM - 7:40 AM

HVNandrew · Tue May 18, 2021 5:41 pm

AC4500 wrote:
LAX-SAN returns on July 17th; 1x daily SkyWest E175:

DL 3790 | LAX-SAN: 9:56 PM - 10:56 PM
DL 3788 | SAN-LAX: 6:40 AM - 7:40 AM

Glad to see that back, and a resumption makes sense. It's a quick flight that opens up SAN to a lot of easy connections for intra-west traffic through LAX that otherwise wouldn't be possible on DL - going all the way out to SLC is not a viable alternative for a lot of those routes. I doubt we'll see DL back to flying 5-6x a day and mainline on the route, but 1-2x daily should be sustainable.

717atOGG · Wed May 19, 2021 3:40 am

Interesting find in the updated July and August schedule - apparently during that time DL will be operating a 767-300ER on one daily ATL-CVG flight, with an evening arrival into CVG and a morning departure back to ATL. It must have been at least 10 years, if not since before the NW merger announcement that DL has operated a domestic widebody flight out of CVG, no? Seems odd that they'd try it again now, though I guess it makes sense with their increased fleet slack and likely having a decent amount of brand loyalty in the area still.

PSU.DTW.SCE · Wed May 19, 2021 3:48 am

Its that and what appears to be placeholder flying for the widebody fleet until international destinations open-up again.
They are keeping aircraft and flight crews utilized on these dense domestic routes month-to-month until they can flip them to more international routes that open-up.

Great time to be "fleet-bagging" as in getting the chance to fly on these aircraft that are on domestic routes for the interim.

Not going to lie, enjoying the A332/3s on ATL-DTW these days.

WidebodyPTV · Wed May 19, 2021 4:21 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Its that and what appears to be placeholder flying for the widebody fleet until international destinations open-up again.
They are keeping aircraft and flight crews utilized on these dense domestic routes month-to-month until they can flip them to more international routes that open-up.

Great time to be "fleet-bagging" as in getting the chance to fly on these aircraft that are on domestic routes for the interim.

Not going to lie, enjoying the A332/3s on ATL-DTW these days.

There’s a lot of unique widebody pairings. The A359 that operated my LAX-DTW flight turned around and operated DTW-SLC. The A330 parked on each side were headed to SAN and ATL. ATL hasn’t seen regular long-haul widebody service since DL was rotating the 777 on the route.

I’ve been loving the A359 on DTW/LAX. Interestingly, I noticed that they announce that the cabin crew is SEA (not DTW, although the cockpit crew is) based. It’s interesting how quickly things turned around — my flights this month have been pretty darn full, and completely full in Delta One and Premium Economy. That said, the clientel has been very different (more typical of an NK flight). On Monday, DL hiked the LAX/DTW fares — the lowest fares are about the same as they were previously-COVID, so I assume the clientel will change pretty quickly.

HVNandrew · Wed May 19, 2021 12:06 pm

DL has been flying a 763 on SAN-JFK as well, which I don't believe they had done in decades (think back in the domestic BusinessElite days). It had been consistently 752s and 738s running that route for years (maybe some 739s thrown in recently too?).

flyboyrj · Sun May 23, 2021 10:30 pm

Maybe I’m missing it, any word on when DL will return to FNT?
Traveling through there last week kiosks and signage was still up.

panamair · Sun May 23, 2021 11:55 pm

HVNandrew wrote:
DL has been flying a 763 on SAN-JFK as well, which I don't believe they had done in decades (think back in the domestic BusinessElite days). It had been consistently 752s and 738s running that route for years (maybe some 739s thrown in recently too?).

Starting 5 June, the 764 will be replacing the 763 on one of the SAN-JFK flights; this is through the July schedule so far. Also, with this weekend’s schedule update, the 764 will also be popping up on JFK-DEN/SLC/PHX/LAS as well in addition to SAN and LAX in July.

panamair · Sun May 23, 2021 11:59 pm

On the Europe front, looks like JFK-BCN will be restarting in June at 3x weekly 763ER. In July both JFK-NCE (3x weekly 764) and JFK-VCE (3 or 4x weekly 763ER) return as well.

JFK-EDI/LIS/FRA/DUB have been pushed to August, while JFK-BRU/ZRH have been pushed to September.

nascar1 · Mon May 24, 2021 12:24 am

panamair wrote:
On the Europe front, looks like JFK-BCN will be restarting in June at 3x weekly 763ER. In July both JFK-NCE (3x weekly 764) and JFK-VCE (3 or 4x weekly 763ER) return as well.

JFK-EDI/LIS/FRA/DUB have been pushed to August, while JFK-BRU/ZRH have been pushed to September.

By the way Delta has loaded ATL-BCN for W21. Last time ATL-BCN operated during winter was 10 years ago.

PSU.DTW.SCE · Mon May 24, 2021 1:36 pm

flyboyrj wrote:
Maybe I’m missing it, any word on when DL will return to FNT?
Traveling through there last week kiosks and signage was still up.

I have a suspicion that DL will probably reopen FNT probably in early 2022. My uneducated guess is that it comes back in time for the sun/beach/cruise winter season.

TerminalD · Mon May 24, 2021 2:13 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
flyboyrj wrote:
Maybe I’m missing it, any word on when DL will return to FNT?
Traveling through there last week kiosks and signage was still up.

I have a suspicion that DL will probably reopen FNT probably in early 2022. My uneducated guess is that it comes back in time for the sun/beach/cruise winter season.

It looks like G4 has been doing great numbers at FNT since DL left. Can't have that. DL will probably return.

AABB777 · Mon May 24, 2021 3:18 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
flyboyrj wrote:
Maybe I’m missing it, any word on when DL will return to FNT?
Traveling through there last week kiosks and signage was still up.

I have a suspicion that DL will probably reopen FNT probably in early 2022. My uneducated guess is that it comes back in time for the sun/beach/cruise winter season.

Any idea if/when DL will reopen SBA?

a320flyer · Sun May 30, 2021 9:37 am

In the past few weeks, Delta has loaded:
- CVG-AUS 2x/day CR9 effective March 1, 2022
- CVG-SFO 1x/day B739 effective April 1, 2022
- RDU-AUS 2x/day A319 effective March 1, 2022 (upgauged from 1x/E175)

avi8 · Sun May 30, 2021 12:04 pm

Very nice to see DL adding flights to CVG. I had heard rumors about them building it back up to some extent.

flyboy80 · Sun May 30, 2021 12:33 pm

Interested to see DL recovery mode strategy. A year ago I would have sworn this pandemic would take CVG, but it appears they are quietly adding here and there. Perhaps the traffic dynamics, as suggested by others, have changed to favor some of these smaller markets vs the hubs.

tphuang · Sun May 30, 2021 12:42 pm

What airlines schedule out months out vs what they actually fly is quite different these days. DL simply does not have the planes necessary to fly the schedule they have in Q2 of next year. If they don't cut at CVG, they will need to cut elsewhere. My guess is that all these "adds" are just delaying the inevitable decision they need to make on which station to gut.

avi8 · Sun May 30, 2021 1:08 pm

tphuang wrote:
What airlines schedule out months out vs what they actually fly is quite different these days. DL simply does not have the planes necessary to fly the schedule they have in Q2 of next year. If they don't cut at CVG, they will need to cut elsewhere. My guess is that all these "adds" are just delaying the inevitable decision they need to make on which station to gut.

Delta has plenty of planes coming their way for narrowbody ops: A220s, A321s, and A321NEOs. I know they are also retiring aircraft but definitely not 1:1

a320flyer · Sun May 30, 2021 1:33 pm

tphuang wrote:
What airlines schedule out months out vs what they actually fly is quite different these days. DL simply does not have the planes necessary to fly the schedule they have in Q2 of next year. If they don't cut at CVG, they will need to cut elsewhere. My guess is that all these "adds" are just delaying the inevitable decision they need to make on which station to gut.

Sure, but DL has already resumed EWR/DCA/DEN/LAS/MCO/TPA/RSW/FLL in addition to every DL hub from CVG. Passenger traffic is only going up now. If they were going to "gut" CVG, they wouldn't have brought back so much already. Peer cities surrounding CVG such as IND/CMH/PIT/etc still don't have service back to some DL hubs...

Midwestindy · Sun May 30, 2021 1:42 pm

avi8 wrote:
Very nice to see DL adding flights to CVG. I had heard rumors about them building it back up to some extent.

CVG-AUS is the only CVG reload, CVG-SFO was just cut until April 2022, it was never fully removed.

tphuang · Sun May 30, 2021 1:57 pm

avi8 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
What airlines schedule out months out vs what they actually fly is quite different these days. DL simply does not have the planes necessary to fly the schedule they have in Q2 of next year. If they don't cut at CVG, they will need to cut elsewhere. My guess is that all these "adds" are just delaying the inevitable decision they need to make on which station to gut.

Delta has plenty of planes coming their way for narrowbody ops: A220s, A321s, and A321NEOs. I know they are also retiring aircraft but definitely not 1:1

IIRC from one of the DL fleet threads, DL will have somewhere around 100 fewer mainline aircraft by end of 2022 vs end of 2019. RJs are down by at least that ratio also. On top of that, they also have a huge backlog in their pilot training sims and hiring because so over 2000 took early outs and 1721 were displaced. Even compared to UA and AA, DL will take longer to get back to pre-COVID capacity level.

They can certainly bring back much of what they operated out of CVG pre-COVID. Or they could decide the resources are better used elsewhere and cancel the few non-hub/leisure/DCA routes like EWR/DEN they already brought back.

btw, I have no skin in this game. If CVG is brought back closer to pre-COVID size, that would mean certain other hubs/focus cities don't get those resources.

MIflyer12 · Sun May 30, 2021 2:11 pm

tphuang wrote:
avi8 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
What airlines schedule out months out vs what they actually fly is quite different these days. DL simply does not have the planes necessary to fly the schedule they have in Q2 of next year. If they don't cut at CVG, they will need to cut elsewhere. My guess is that all these "adds" are just delaying the inevitable decision they need to make on which station to gut.

Delta has plenty of planes coming their way for narrowbody ops: A220s, A321s, and A321NEOs. I know they are also retiring aircraft but definitely not 1:1

IIRC from one of the DL fleet threads, DL will have somewhere around 100 fewer mainline aircraft by end of 2022 vs end of 2019. RJs are down by at least that ratio also. On top of that, they also have a huge backlog in their pilot training sims and hiring because so over 2000 took early outs and 1721 were displaced. Even compared to UA and AA, DL will take longer to get back to pre-COVID capacity level.

They can certainly bring back much of what they operated out of CVG pre-COVID. Or they could decide the resources are better used elsewhere and cancel the few non-hub/leisure/DCA routes like EWR/DEN they already brought back.

btw, I have no skin in this game. If CVG is brought back closer to pre-COVID size, that would mean certain other hubs/focus cities don't get those resources.

Care to show your analysis that confirms your assertion DL won't have enough planes? Include scheduled block hours and projected utilization, please.

tphuang · Sun May 30, 2021 2:20 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
avi8 wrote:

Delta has plenty of planes coming their way for narrowbody ops: A220s, A321s, and A321NEOs. I know they are also retiring aircraft but definitely not 1:1

IIRC from one of the DL fleet threads, DL will have somewhere around 100 fewer mainline aircraft by end of 2022 vs end of 2019. RJs are down by at least that ratio also. On top of that, they also have a huge backlog in their pilot training sims and hiring because so over 2000 took early outs and 1721 were displaced. Even compared to UA and AA, DL will take longer to get back to pre-COVID capacity level.

They can certainly bring back much of what they operated out of CVG pre-COVID. Or they could decide the resources are better used elsewhere and cancel the few non-hub/leisure/DCA routes like EWR/DEN they already brought back.

btw, I have no skin in this game. If CVG is brought back closer to pre-COVID size, that would mean certain other hubs/focus cities don't get those resources.

Care to show your analysis that confirms your assertion DL won't have enough planes? Include scheduled block hours and projected utilization, please.

I haven't delved any deeper than looking at their schedule this summer vs 2019 (down 30% in July), the mainline fleet size and the number of pilots that are current. If DL was running particularly fat before, I suppose they can squeeze extra utilization with much fewer pilots and mainline aircraft. But this is an airline that twice had large number of flight cancellation during holiday periods in the past few months because they didn't have enough pilots.

jbs2886 · Sun May 30, 2021 5:18 pm

tphuang wrote:
avi8 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
What airlines schedule out months out vs what they actually fly is quite different these days. DL simply does not have the planes necessary to fly the schedule they have in Q2 of next year. If they don't cut at CVG, they will need to cut elsewhere. My guess is that all these "adds" are just delaying the inevitable decision they need to make on which station to gut.

Delta has plenty of planes coming their way for narrowbody ops: A220s, A321s, and A321NEOs. I know they are also retiring aircraft but definitely not 1:1

IIRC from one of the DL fleet threads, DL will have somewhere around 100 fewer mainline aircraft by end of 2022 vs end of 2019. RJs are down by at least that ratio also. On top of that, they also have a huge backlog in their pilot training sims and hiring because so over 2000 took early outs and 1721 were displaced. Even compared to UA and AA, DL will take longer to get back to pre-COVID capacity level.

They can certainly bring back much of what they operated out of CVG pre-COVID. Or they could decide the resources are better used elsewhere and cancel the few non-hub/leisure/DCA routes like EWR/DEN they already brought back.

btw, I have no skin in this game. If CVG is brought back closer to pre-COVID size, that would mean certain other hubs/focus cities don't get those resources.

Many of the narrowbodies were much lower utilization (particularly MDs), I suspect DL can and will use the new A220s and A321s at a much higher utilization making the comparison of fewer aircraft total a bad comparison.

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