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HunterATL
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Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:15 am

DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 4:04 am

With the completion of the IAF at SEA in the near future, UA and DL have agreed to swap gates at Sea-Tac. UA will vacate its 3 gates on the A concourse and take over 3 DL gates at the end of the B concourse no later than January 1, 2024. UA will also move its club to the American Express lounge on the B concourse. The move will occur after new/expanded ramp and ground facilities for UA are completed and upgrades to UA's new gates are finished.

As part of the gate realignment, DL will also leave the South Satellite and close its SkyClub there. DL will build a new 25,000 sf SkyClub next to gate A11.

https://meetings.portseattle.org/index. ... ctive=play
http://meetings.portseattle.org/portmee ... _RM_8f.pdf
https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/new ... lines.html
 
jbs2886
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 4:26 am

HunterATL wrote:
With the completion of the IAF at SEA in the near future, UA and DL have agreed to swap gates at Sea-Tac. UA will vacate its 3 gates on the A concourse and take over 3 DL gates at the end of the B concourse no later than January 1, 2024. UA will also move its club to the American Express lounge on the B concourse. The move will occur after new/expanded ramp and ground facilities for UA are completed and upgrades to UA's new gates are finished.

As part of the gate realignment, DL will also leave the South Satellite and close its SkyClub there. DL will build a new 25,000 sf SkyClub next to gate A11.

https://meetings.portseattle.org/index. ... ctive=play
http://meetings.portseattle.org/portmee ... _RM_8f.pdf
https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/new ... lines.html


New Amex lounge or is it closing?
 
HunterATL
Topic Author
Posts: 74
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 4:28 am

jbs2886 wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
With the completion of the IAF at SEA in the near future, UA and DL have agreed to swap gates at Sea-Tac. UA will vacate its 3 gates on the A concourse and take over 3 DL gates at the end of the B concourse no later than January 1, 2024. UA will also move its club to the American Express lounge on the B concourse. The move will occur after new/expanded ramp and ground facilities for UA are completed and upgrades to UA's new gates are finished.

As part of the gate realignment, DL will also leave the South Satellite and close its SkyClub there. DL will build a new 25,000 sf SkyClub next to gate A11.

https://meetings.portseattle.org/index. ... ctive=play
http://meetings.portseattle.org/portmee ... _RM_8f.pdf
https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/new ... lines.html


New Amex lounge or is it closing?


AmEx is opening a new lounge in the Central Terminal.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2942
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 4:36 am

HunterATL wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
With the completion of the IAF at SEA in the near future, UA and DL have agreed to swap gates at Sea-Tac. UA will vacate its 3 gates on the A concourse and take over 3 DL gates at the end of the B concourse no later than January 1, 2024. UA will also move its club to the American Express lounge on the B concourse. The move will occur after new/expanded ramp and ground facilities for UA are completed and upgrades to UA's new gates are finished.

As part of the gate realignment, DL will also leave the South Satellite and close its SkyClub there. DL will build a new 25,000 sf SkyClub next to gate A11.

https://meetings.portseattle.org/index. ... ctive=play
http://meetings.portseattle.org/portmee ... _RM_8f.pdf
https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/new ... lines.html


New Amex lounge or is it closing?


AmEx is opening a new lounge in the Central Terminal.


Thanks, one other question is what is the impact on DL gates? When IAF is completed does DL get additional A gates that compensate for the use of S?
 
alfa164
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 5:00 am

HunterATL wrote:
As part of the gate realignment, DL will also leave the South Satellite and close its SkyClub there. DL will build a new 25,000 sf SkyClub next to gate A11.


How will this affect the (almost new) SkyClub near Gate A1? Or will there be two clubs in the A-gate area?
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
HunterATL
Topic Author
Posts: 74
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 5:01 am

alfa164 wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
As part of the gate realignment, DL will also leave the South Satellite and close its SkyClub there. DL will build a new 25,000 sf SkyClub next to gate A11.


How will this affect the (almost new) SkyClub near Gate A1? Or will there be two clubs in the A-gate area?


It has no effect on that club.
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1843
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 5:08 am

HunterATL wrote:
UA will vacate its 3 gates on the A concourse and take over 3 DL gates at the end of the B concourse no later than January 1, 2024.


I thought DL had more gates on B? Jetways were added to allow more narrowbody planes to park (Gates B5A and B7A), and also added the bus gate for their hardstand operation, all visible on Google Maps.
 
HunterATL
Topic Author
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:15 am

Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 5:09 am

jbs2886 wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

New Amex lounge or is it closing?


AmEx is opening a new lounge in the Central Terminal.


Thanks, one other question is what is the impact on DL gates? When IAF is completed does DL get additional A gates that compensate for the use of S?


The Port has not finalized a plan on the use of the gates on A except to state that no American carrier may use them who does not operate international flights from SEA. DL will definitely have preferential use of the majority of the gates, but the Port expects 3 to 4 of the international-capable gates to be common use and intends to build a common-use lounge at the end of A next to DL's new SkyClub. Once DL has left the South Satellite, the Port expects to renovate those gates.
 
HunterATL
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Posts: 74
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 5:10 am

phatfarmlines wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
UA will vacate its 3 gates on the A concourse and take over 3 DL gates at the end of the B concourse no later than January 1, 2024.


I thought DL had more gates on B? Jetways were added to allow more narrowbody planes to park (Gates B5A and B7A), and also added the bus gate for their hardstand operation, all visible on Google Maps.


DL is only relinquishing 3 of its gates on B at the end of the concourse.
 
phatfarmlines
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Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 5:11 am

HunterATL wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
UA will vacate its 3 gates on the A concourse and take over 3 DL gates at the end of the B concourse no later than January 1, 2024.


I thought DL had more gates on B? Jetways were added to allow more narrowbody planes to park (Gates B5A and B7A), and also added the bus gate for their hardstand operation, all visible on Google Maps.


DL is only relinquishing 3 of its gates on B at the end of the concourse.


Got it. Is it safe to say DL will keep the bus gate post-IAF completion?
 
HunterATL
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 5:15 am

phatfarmlines wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:

I thought DL had more gates on B? Jetways were added to allow more narrowbody planes to park (Gates B5A and B7A), and also added the bus gate for their hardstand operation, all visible on Google Maps.


DL is only relinquishing 3 of its gates on B at the end of the concourse.


Got it. Is it safe to say DL will keep the bus gate post-IAF completion?


The busing operation is likely to move to gates A20 and A21, but neither the Port nor DL has stated anything. B20 and B21 are located in the new UA gate area.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 5:40 am

HunterATL wrote:
UA will vacate its 3 gates on the A concourse and take over 3 DL gates at the end of the B concourse no later than January 1, 2024.


UA only has three gates at SEA?!
Next flights:
Who knows? :/
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 11:30 am

maps4ltd wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
UA will vacate its 3 gates on the A concourse and take over 3 DL gates at the end of the B concourse no later than January 1, 2024.


UA only has three gates at SEA?!


I don't know how many gates UA has at SEA now, but I do remember when UA had all of the North Satellite to themselves and a much larger operation at SEA, including NRT, JFK, LHR , etc..But that was the 1990s and a long time ago.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 11:45 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
UA will vacate its 3 gates on the A concourse and take over 3 DL gates at the end of the B concourse no later than January 1, 2024.


UA only has three gates at SEA?!


I don't know how many gates UA has at SEA now, but I do remember when UA had all of the North Satellite to themselves and a much larger operation at SEA, including NRT, JFK, LHR , etc..But that was the 1990s and a long time ago.


UA and NW...back when small international hublets were a thing :(
 
jayunited
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 12:12 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
UA will vacate its 3 gates on the A concourse and take over 3 DL gates at the end of the B concourse no later than January 1, 2024.


UA only has three gates at SEA?!


First there was bankruptcy then came Smisek's shrink your way into profitability. UA give up quite a bit at SEA over the years and when Delta decided to make SEA their hub UA had no choice but to tuck tail and run.

So yes United Airlines which use to occupy the entire North Satellite is now down to only 3 gates at SEA. It is sad but that is where we find ourselves today and at this point there isn't much UA can do to change it.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 12:33 pm

DL just loves to sink more and more money into SEA all while not gaining much. Now with AS joining OW, AA starting international flights and QR in the market DL has an even bigger challenge ahead. Once we get passed this pandemic OW will dominate SEA to Europe (AA & BA), India (BA, AA & QR) and Asia (JL, CX, QR). Yet DL thinks spending millions on a second club is necessary??
 
flyboy80
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 1:50 pm

This expectation that Seattle customers, not to mention connecting traffic, is exclusive to one carrier or alliance (Alaska or One world) is ridiculous. Obviously, many Seattle based workers and companies alike prefer Delta- and it’s not like their portfolio of offerings from Seattle is limited- they are a good, arguably preferable, network wise to the vast “collection” of Alaska and codeshare partners...
 
MIflyer12
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 2:07 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
DL just loves to sink more and more money into SEA all while not gaining much.


Please point to the informed, reliable source that shows DL's trend of profitability at SEA.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 2:12 pm

One of the OP's links addresses why. The Port of Seattle doc isn't copyrighted so I'll provide a lengthy extract.

JUSTIFICATION
Delta has requested to construct approximately 25,000 square feet to provide additional lounge
premises to accommodate their passenger demand that is anticipated to shift from the South
Satellite to Concourse A due to the opening of the IAF and the conversion of Concourse A gates
from domestic only operations to gates that are capable of accommodating international
operations. The Port currently does not have sufficient space to meet this demand. Thus, to
satisfy this request for additional leased space, (which coincides with the Port’s Century Agenda
Goal # 2 to advance this region as a leading tourism destination and business gateway) the Port
would either (i) need to build the shell space itself, and then have Delta subsequently design and
construct their own tenant improvements, or (ii) allow Delta to design and construct the building
addition under a TRA. In addition, this proposed expansion will create additional space that will
be useful for future expansion of the Port’s common-use lounge on Concourse A, which would
provide needed capacity to support pre-COVID passenger levels, as well as anticipated capacity
that will shift from South Satellite to Concourse A as a result of the completion of the IAF project.
 
tphuang
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 2:14 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
DL just loves to sink more and more money into SEA all while not gaining much.


Please point to the informed, reliable source that shows DL's trend of profitability at SEA.

You should take a look at t100 load factor data for dl during the most recently available months. Sea is constantly among the worst.
 
seatown1
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 2:33 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
DL just loves to sink more and more money into SEA all while not gaining much. Now with AS joining OW, AA starting international flights and QR in the market DL has an even bigger challenge ahead. Once we get passed this pandemic OW will dominate SEA to Europe (AA & BA), India (BA, AA & QR) and Asia (JL, CX, QR). Yet DL thinks spending millions on a second club is necessary??


CX is confirmed to be gone. So Oneworld is going to dominate Asia by flying to HND, DOH with virtually zero O&D out of SEA, and maybe PVG while Delta flies to ICN, which is the largest O&D market in Asia out of SEA, HND, PEK, and PVG? Oneworld will offer LHR as its lone destination in Europe while Delta and its JV partners are flying to LHR, AMS, and CDG. As far as India goes, even if BLR ever makes it off the ground (which I doubt ever happens), Delta can still flow traffic over its JV hubs in AMS and CDG. I don't see how this goes any better than Delta's failed arrangement with Alaska back in the day. With Alaska running high load factors, there weren't enough seats available for Delta to support their international operation. Additionally, they were unable to coordinate schedules or share revenue like Delta can currently with their JV partners. American joining Oneworld doesn't fix any of those problems. Delta is now investing an additional 71 million into SEA with this new lounge space, so they clearly aren't backing down.
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 2:41 pm

tphuang wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
DL just loves to sink more and more money into SEA all while not gaining much.


Please point to the informed, reliable source that shows DL's trend of profitability at SEA.

You should take a look at t100 load factor data for dl during the most recently available months. Sea is constantly among the worst.


Load factor ≠ Profitability
 
sxf24
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 3:00 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
UA will vacate its 3 gates on the A concourse and take over 3 DL gates at the end of the B concourse no later than January 1, 2024.


UA only has three gates at SEA?!


3 exclusive gates. Common use gates are also used, particularly for RONs.
 
DeltaPSCFlyer
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 3:09 pm

jayunited wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
UA will vacate its 3 gates on the A concourse and take over 3 DL gates at the end of the B concourse no later than January 1, 2024.


UA only has three gates at SEA?!


First there was bankruptcy then came Smisek's shrink your way into profitability. UA give up quite a bit at SEA over the years and when Delta decided to make SEA their hub UA had no choice but to tuck tail and run.

So yes United Airlines which use to occupy the entire North Satellite is now down to only 3 gates at SEA. It is sad but that is where we find ourselves today and at this point there isn't much UA can do to change it.


UA also has its operation at PAE, which saves many of its customers on the north end of Seattle the time and hassle of driving all the way down to SEA. Plus, lower operating costs there than at SEA. UA also appears to be focusing on smaller markets in the NW that directly competes with Alaska Airlines, such as EUG, MFR, RDM, and also PSC.

I think UA is being smarter about operating costs at airports where it's not a big player, but also expanding their footprint in smaller markets that are lower cost, but present longer-term growth opportunities. Using PSC as an example (where I fly out of), AS has the nicest gate area, but yet only serves SEA with a turboprop! Plus there is now Avelo, and also Allegiant that are challenging AS' position here as well. UA had announced a PSC-ORD flight to start last year, which hopefully will be started one day. Southwest isn't here yet, but as the area continues to grow (we're almost at 300k population) they will probably be here within 5 years, maybe sooner.
 
AMALH747430
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 3:27 pm

It’s sad to see UA shrink in SEA but it was kind of inevitable. I believe they used to codeshare with AS back when AS codeshared with EVERYONE. Once that ended and DL began to build up their own presence it really didn’t make sense. UA has the grand prize of the TPAC hubs and a sizable LAX operation so SEA was really superfluous. Especially in light of the fact that DL and AS + all the international carriers they codeshare with were all chasing an over served passenger base.

UA covers their hubs; JV partners AN, LH, and AC cover the main international portions; and that covers them sufficiently for a non-hub carrier. That being said, Smisek cut way too much on the domestic side which leaves them where they are.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 3:35 pm

No, UA and AS never have codeshared ...
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
NLINK
Posts: 382
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 3:43 pm

American Airlines will not last long in Seattle. They have a long history of running from competition. An airline such as Delta doesn't have to be the largest to make money in each market. Delta will carve out their niche with corporate travel when it returns and be just fine. They generally do not retreat from competition like American Airlines does. History shows us by looking at LAX, JFK, LGA and to a lesser extent ORD what American usually does.

clrd4t8koff wrote:
DL just loves to sink more and more money into SEA all while not gaining much. Now with AS joining OW, AA starting international flights and QR in the market DL has an even bigger challenge ahead. Once we get passed this pandemic OW will dominate SEA to Europe (AA & BA), India (BA, AA & QR) and Asia (JL, CX, QR). Yet DL thinks spending millions on a second club is necessary??
 
clrd4t8koff
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 3:52 pm

seatown1 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
DL just loves to sink more and more money into SEA all while not gaining much. Now with AS joining OW, AA starting international flights and QR in the market DL has an even bigger challenge ahead. Once we get passed this pandemic OW will dominate SEA to Europe (AA & BA), India (BA, AA & QR) and Asia (JL, CX, QR). Yet DL thinks spending millions on a second club is necessary??


CX is confirmed to be gone. So Oneworld is going to dominate Asia by flying to HND, DOH with virtually zero O&D out of SEA, and maybe PVG while Delta flies to ICN, which is the largest O&D market in Asia out of SEA, HND, PEK, and PVG? Oneworld will offer LHR as its lone destination in Europe while Delta and its JV partners are flying to LHR, AMS, and CDG. As far as India goes, even if BLR ever makes it off the ground (which I doubt ever happens), Delta can still flow traffic over its JV hubs in AMS and CDG. I don't see how this goes any better than Delta's failed arrangement with Alaska back in the day. With Alaska running high load factors, there weren't enough seats available for Delta to support their international operation. Additionally, they were unable to coordinate schedules or share revenue like Delta can currently with their JV partners. American joining Oneworld doesn't fix any of those problems. Delta is now investing an additional 71 million into SEA with this new lounge space, so they clearly aren't backing down.


I hear what you’re saying and admit I didn’t know CX had confirmed (for now) that SEA was permanently cut. However, I also realized I left off Aer Lingus of OW carriers, making DUB & LHR accessible non-stop. LHR is arguably the biggest O&D Euro station from SEA and I’d wager DUB has more O&D than AMS. On top of that the only advantage DL’s partners AF & KL have over BA @ LHR are larger African networks which I’ve never heard SEA of having much demand to. OW is much stronger to India collectively than Skyteam between AA, BA & QR, dominates LHR and I wouldn’t be surprised to see AA add more service to Asia n/s from SEA in the next year or two. While I didn’t mean to suggest DL is backing down I still stand by my statement that DL has a big challenge ahead of them in SEA compared to when they first started the SEA hub build out which has seen a couple failures already (HKG & KIX). I’d be shocked if we even see n/s DL SEA - PVG/PEK in the near term.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1772
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 3:56 pm

NLINK wrote:
American Airlines will not last long in Seattle. They have a long history of running from competition. An airline such as Delta doesn't have to be the largest to make money in each market. Delta will carve out their niche with corporate travel when it returns and be just fine. They generally do not retreat from competition like American Airlines does. History shows us by looking at LAX, JFK, LGA and to a lesser extent ORD what American usually does.


I don’t agree with that at all. Pre pandemic DL was full steam ahead at making BOS a full hub and aggressively setting up larger focus stations at RDU, AUS & SJC. Since the pandemic DL has shrunk at all those stations and run from AA who has aggressively added flights to many markets and now positioned themselves to be the top US3 carrier at both BOS & AUS. It’s been DL who has been doing the running...not AA.
 
seatown1
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:33 pm

Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 4:31 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
I hear what you’re saying and admit I didn’t know CX had confirmed (for now) that SEA was permanently cut. However, I also realized I left off Aer Lingus of OW carriers, making DUB & LHR accessible non-stop. LHR is arguably the biggest O&D Euro station from SEA and I’d wager DUB has more O&D than AMS. On top of that the only advantage DL’s partners AF & KL have over BA @ LHR are larger African networks which I’ve never heard SEA of having much demand to. OW is much stronger to India collectively than Skyteam between AA, BA & QR, dominates LHR and I wouldn’t be surprised to see AA add more service to Asia n/s from SEA in the next year or two. While I didn’t mean to suggest DL is backing down I still stand by my statement that DL has a big challenge ahead of them in SEA compared to when they first started the SEA hub build out which has seen a couple failures already (HKG & KIX). I’d be shocked if we even see n/s DL SEA - PVG/PEK in the near term.


AMS was larger than DUB pre-covid. Delta has been flying SEA-ICN-PVG since US carriers were allowed to restart service to China. They actually briefly flew it nonstop, but had to return to the ICN stopover due to the draconian conditions the crews were facing laying over in China. United had the same issue and is also still flying via ICN. PEK won't come back until more frequencies are allocated by the Chinese government. Currently, US carriers are limited to 4x/weekly frequency each. Delta is splitting them between SEA and DTW while United is using all 4 for SFO. By comparison, American only restarted PVG relatively recently from DFW (via ICN), and hasn't been using all of it's frequencies.

One area it seems like Delta has a clear advantage in SEA is their hard product at the airport. The current A lounge is both larger and has more amenities (hot food and showers) than the new Alaska lounge in N. This new lounge will be larger and will likely be even nicer, as it's adjacent to the gates that Delta expects to use for it's international flights.
 
NLINK
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:20 pm

Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 4:35 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
NLINK wrote:
American Airlines will not last long in Seattle. They have a long history of running from competition. An airline such as Delta doesn't have to be the largest to make money in each market. Delta will carve out their niche with corporate travel when it returns and be just fine. They generally do not retreat from competition like American Airlines does. History shows us by looking at LAX, JFK, LGA and to a lesser extent ORD what American usually does.


I don’t agree with that at all. Pre pandemic DL was full steam ahead at making BOS a full hub and aggressively setting up larger focus stations at RDU, AUS & SJC. Since the pandemic DL has shrunk at all those stations and run from AA who has aggressively added flights to many markets and now positioned themselves to be the top US3 carrier at both BOS & AUS. It’s been DL who has been doing the running...not AA.



Delta and American are run differently. American is so far in debt right now they have to generate cash somehow to stay afloat. They are chasing the lowest fares now just too survive because they must have that cash coming in to pay for that debt. They have to pay for all those shiny new planes. Delta is limiting capacity because the business is not built on filling the plane with the cheapest fares.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18630
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 4:36 pm

jayunited wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
UA will vacate its 3 gates on the A concourse and take over 3 DL gates at the end of the B concourse no later than January 1, 2024.


UA only has three gates at SEA?!


First there was bankruptcy then came Smisek's shrink your way into profitability. UA give up quite a bit at SEA over the years and when Delta decided to make SEA their hub UA had no choice but to tuck tail and run.

UA has the largest transpacific hub in the Americas at SFO--~4x the seats of DL at SEA--and is the largest transpacific carrier period. With JV partner NH covering Tokyo and DL/AA duking it out, they have little need to be in SEA transpacific
I don't take responsibility at all
 
onwFan
Posts: 595
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 5:17 pm

NLINK wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
NLINK wrote:
American Airlines will not last long in Seattle. They have a long history of running from competition. An airline such as Delta doesn't have to be the largest to make money in each market. Delta will carve out their niche with corporate travel when it returns and be just fine. They generally do not retreat from competition like American Airlines does. History shows us by looking at LAX, JFK, LGA and to a lesser extent ORD what American usually does.


I don’t agree with that at all. Pre pandemic DL was full steam ahead at making BOS a full hub and aggressively setting up larger focus stations at RDU, AUS & SJC. Since the pandemic DL has shrunk at all those stations and run from AA who has aggressively added flights to many markets and now positioned themselves to be the top US3 carrier at both BOS & AUS. It’s been DL who has been doing the running...not AA.



Delta and American are run differently. American is so far in debt right now they have to generate cash somehow to stay afloat. They are chasing the lowest fares now just too survive because they must have that cash coming in to pay for that debt. They have to pay for all those shiny new planes. Delta is limiting capacity because the business is not built on filling the plane with the cheapest fares.

Interesting how people make it appear as if DL is not in debt and keep referring to 2019 stats for everything despite DL having performed the worst in 2020; instead of realizing that the landscape has changed... It is pretty obvious that DL is doing what it is doing in SEA because that is their only option if they don't want AA/AS to eat their pie there.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5592
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 5:30 pm

A couple of observations here:

1. DL will never catch up with AS in terms of market share at SEA. DL will never get near the number available gates as AS. There is plenty of corporate support for both DL and AS. Who knows how AA will do at SEA, but getting AS into OW doesn't hurt.

2. DL has NOT brought back SEA-CDG yet. But pre-pandemic days, both DL and AF flew the SEA-CDG. The SkyTeam Alliance could get larger at SEA. I hope DL brings back more Asian routes in the near future...but the China political thing could take a while.

3. Where is AC going to park with the reshuffling? Are they going to occupy 1 of the 3 UA gates in the B-concourse?

4. Isn't DL going to have the FIS-capable A-gates exclusively at SEA, eventually? All other international departures and arrivals are going to be at the S-Concourse. Does that mean some gates at S-concourse will be removed for additional widebody capabilities. What about AM? Will they have access to the DL international gates in the A-Concourse?

I'm very interested how the SEA will evolve in the future.
 
onwFan
Posts: 595
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 5:43 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
A couple of observations here:

1. DL will never catch up with AS in terms of market share at SEA. DL will never get near the number available gates as AS. There is plenty of corporate support for both DL and AS. Who knows how AA will do at SEA, but getting AS into OW doesn't hurt.

2. DL has NOT brought back SEA-CDG yet. But pre-pandemic days, both DL and AF flew the SEA-CDG. The SkyTeam Alliance could get larger at SEA. I hope DL brings back more Asian routes in the near future...but the China political thing could take a while.

3. Where is AC going to park with the reshuffling? Are they going to occupy 1 of the 3 UA gates in the B-concourse?

4. Isn't DL going to have the FIS-capable A-gates exclusively at SEA, eventually? All other international departures and arrivals are going to be at the S-Concourse. Does that mean some gates at S-concourse will be removed for additional widebody capabilities. What about AM? Will they have access to the DL international gates in the A-Concourse?

I'm very interested how the SEA will evolve in the future.

AF has probably left SEA for the foreseeable future. They have not flown the route in two years and it is not loaded in their schedules. Given that DL is yet to restart CDG and has been able to manage only 3x weekly to LHR, I think we will see VS follow suit soon. I just cannot see both VS and DL on SEA-LHR for a combined 2x daily anytime in the near future. The most likely scenario will be DL flying 1x daily SEA-AMS/CDG/LHR.

AA/BA will most likely fly the route 1x daily each. If DL/VS end up at 1x daily on SEA-LHR, BA will likely move their current 5x weekly LHR-SEA to a LHR-PDX service.
Last edited by onwFan on Sun May 09, 2021 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5592
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 5:47 pm

onwFan wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
A couple of observations here:

1. DL will never catch up with AS in terms of market share at SEA. DL will never get near the number available gates as AS. There is plenty of corporate support for both DL and AS. Who knows how AA will do at SEA, but getting AS into OW doesn't hurt.

2. DL has NOT brought back SEA-CDG yet. But pre-pandemic days, both DL and AF flew the SEA-CDG. The SkyTeam Alliance could get larger at SEA. I hope DL brings back more Asian routes in the near future...but the China political thing could take a while.

3. Where is AC going to park with the reshuffling? Are they going to occupy 1 of the 3 UA gates in the B-concourse?

4. Isn't DL going to have the FIS-capable A-gates exclusively at SEA, eventually? All other international departures and arrivals are going to be at the S-Concourse. Does that mean some gates at S-concourse will be removed for additional widebody capabilities. What about AM? Will they have access to the DL international gates in the A-Concourse?

I'm very interested how the SEA will evolve in the future.

AF has probably left SEA for the foreseeable future. They have not flown the route in two years and it is not loaded in their schedules. Given that DL is yet to restart CDG and has been able to manage only 3x weekly to LHR, I think we will see VS follow suit soon. I just cannot see both VS and DL on SEA-LHR for a combined 2x daily anytime in the near future. The most likely scenario will be DL flying 1x daily SEA-AMS/CDG/LHR.


AF has not been away from SEA that long. They only been away from SEA since March or April 2020. Before the pandemic, they were using 777-200ER's on the SEA-CDG route. I also read somewhere that VS was going to restart SEA-LHR in June (but take that with a grain of salt). However unlike CX, they never announced they had permanently discontinued SEA-CDG.
 
onwFan
Posts: 595
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 5:51 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
onwFan wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
A couple of observations here:

1. DL will never catch up with AS in terms of market share at SEA. DL will never get near the number available gates as AS. There is plenty of corporate support for both DL and AS. Who knows how AA will do at SEA, but getting AS into OW doesn't hurt.

2. DL has NOT brought back SEA-CDG yet. But pre-pandemic days, both DL and AF flew the SEA-CDG. The SkyTeam Alliance could get larger at SEA. I hope DL brings back more Asian routes in the near future...but the China political thing could take a while.

3. Where is AC going to park with the reshuffling? Are they going to occupy 1 of the 3 UA gates in the B-concourse?

4. Isn't DL going to have the FIS-capable A-gates exclusively at SEA, eventually? All other international departures and arrivals are going to be at the S-Concourse. Does that mean some gates at S-concourse will be removed for additional widebody capabilities. What about AM? Will they have access to the DL international gates in the A-Concourse?

I'm very interested how the SEA will evolve in the future.

AF has probably left SEA for the foreseeable future. They have not flown the route in two years and it is not loaded in their schedules. Given that DL is yet to restart CDG and has been able to manage only 3x weekly to LHR, I think we will see VS follow suit soon. I just cannot see both VS and DL on SEA-LHR for a combined 2x daily anytime in the near future. The most likely scenario will be DL flying 1x daily SEA-AMS/CDG/LHR.


AF has not been away from SEA that long. They only been away from SEA since March or April 2020. Before the pandemic, they were using 777-200ER's on the SEA-CDG route. I also read somewhere that VS was going to restart SEA-LHR in June (but take that with a grain of salt). However unlike CX, they never announced they had permanently discontinued SEA-CDG.

True. But it is difficult to read into VS's service as they have most routes fully loaded two weeks out at any point of time.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 5:52 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
However, I also realized I left off Aer Lingus of OW carriers, making DUB & LHR accessible non-stop. LHR is arguably the biggest O&D Euro station from SEA and I’d wager DUB has more O&D than AMS.

How does Aer Lingus make LHR accessible nonstop?? Do they fly LHR-SEA?
I find it hard to believe that O&D for SEA-DUB is bigger than SEA-AMS
 
kavok
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 6:21 pm

onwFan wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
onwFan wrote:
AF has probably left SEA for the foreseeable future. They have not flown the route in two years and it is not loaded in their schedules. Given that DL is yet to restart CDG and has been able to manage only 3x weekly to LHR, I think we will see VS follow suit soon. I just cannot see both VS and DL on SEA-LHR for a combined 2x daily anytime in the near future. The most likely scenario will be DL flying 1x daily SEA-AMS/CDG/LHR.


AF has not been away from SEA that long. They only been away from SEA since March or April 2020. Before the pandemic, they were using 777-200ER's on the SEA-CDG route. I also read somewhere that VS was going to restart SEA-LHR in June (but take that with a grain of salt). However unlike CX, they never announced they had permanently discontinued SEA-CDG.


True. But it is difficult to read into VS's service as they have most routes fully loaded two weeks out at any point of time.


1- I don’t expect VS to serve SEA-LHR in June. That being said, from a business standpoint, it may be valuable enough to advertise it, sell some tickets by pax looking for a nonstop flight, and then later in drop it and reroute pax via JFK/ATL. Obviously some pax will cash in for a refund, but many others will simply accept the connection.

2- Given the JV, don’t look at DL or VS on SEA-LHR as separate entities. It is a question of whether DL/VS together will serve the route, and then if so, DL/VS then decide which airline makes sense to fly it (and at what frequency). Going back to point 1, given that DL/VS has opted not to serve DTW/MSP-LHR in June, odds are very slim DL/VS will keep SEA-LHR in June either. DL/VS will be back someday soon on SEA-LHR, but probably not in June.

Going back to the original topic, is there any discussion of what becomes of the DL SkyClub space in the S satellite?
 
jbs2886
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 6:38 pm

kavok wrote:
onwFan wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:

AF has not been away from SEA that long. They only been away from SEA since March or April 2020. Before the pandemic, they were using 777-200ER's on the SEA-CDG route. I also read somewhere that VS was going to restart SEA-LHR in June (but take that with a grain of salt). However unlike CX, they never announced they had permanently discontinued SEA-CDG.


True. But it is difficult to read into VS's service as they have most routes fully loaded two weeks out at any point of time.


1- I don’t expect VS to serve SEA-LHR in June. That being said, from a business standpoint, it may be valuable enough to advertise it, sell some tickets by pax looking for a nonstop flight, and then later in drop it and reroute pax via JFK/ATL. Obviously some pax will cash in for a refund, but many others will simply accept the connection.

2- Given the JV, don’t look at DL or VS on SEA-LHR as separate entities. It is a question of whether DL/VS together will serve the route, and then if so, DL/VS then decide which airline makes sense to fly it (and at what frequency). Going back to point 1, given that DL/VS has opted not to serve DTW/MSP-LHR in June, odds are very slim DL/VS will keep SEA-LHR in June either. DL/VS will be back someday soon on SEA-LHR, but probably not in June.

Going back to the original topic, is there any discussion of what becomes of the DL SkyClub space in the S satellite?


What? DL is currently flying SEA-LHR.
 
onwFan
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 6:41 pm

kavok wrote:
onwFan wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:

AF has not been away from SEA that long. They only been away from SEA since March or April 2020. Before the pandemic, they were using 777-200ER's on the SEA-CDG route. I also read somewhere that VS was going to restart SEA-LHR in June (but take that with a grain of salt). However unlike CX, they never announced they had permanently discontinued SEA-CDG.


True. But it is difficult to read into VS's service as they have most routes fully loaded two weeks out at any point of time.


1- I don’t expect VS to serve SEA-LHR in June. That being said, from a business standpoint, it may be valuable enough to advertise it, sell some tickets by pax looking for a nonstop flight, and then later in drop it and reroute pax via JFK/ATL. Obviously some pax will cash in for a refund, but many others will simply accept the connection.

2- Given the JV, don’t look at DL or VS on SEA-LHR as separate entities. It is a question of whether DL/VS together will serve the route, and then if so, DL/VS then decide which airline makes sense to fly it (and at what frequency). Going back to point 1, given that DL/VS has opted not to serve DTW/MSP-LHR in June, odds are very slim DL/VS will keep SEA-LHR in June either. DL/VS will be back someday soon on SEA-LHR, but probably not in June.

I wasn’t questioning whether DL/VS will serve SEA-LHR. Yes, they need to be viewed as one. Which is why my point was just that I don’t see them both flying the route for a combined 2x daily (which is what is loaded) anytime in the near future.
 
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intotheair
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 7:02 pm

jayunited wrote:
First there was bankruptcy then came Smisek's shrink your way into profitability. UA give up quite a bit at SEA over the years and when Delta decided to make SEA their hub UA had no choice but to tuck tail and run.

So yes United Airlines which use to occupy the entire North Satellite is now down to only 3 gates at SEA. It is sad but that is where we find ourselves today and at this point there isn't much UA can do to change it.


I don't know if that's exactly fair to claim SEA was a Smisek casualty. There was very little left by the time of the merger. OO still had a handful of UAX flights in the PNW, but I believe those were at-risk and on E120s – hardly a robust operation. The NRT flight was also around until 2014. (Oh, and CO had a flight to ANC if that counts.) UA's downsizing of SEA really happened instead in the early-to-mid-2000s during bankruptcy when PMUA was starting to concentrate everything on DEN/IAD/ORD/LAX/SFO. Gateways like JFK, SEA, and MIA either weren't priorities, or they just didn't make sense anymore.

I suppose, in a perfect world, post-merger UA could have tried to build up SEA again before DL started to, but at what cost would that have come? I suppose it would have been nice, but again, not as big of a priority when SFO is just more important and a bigger, better market overall. If anything, I think the bigger mistake UA made in the west was letting the LAX hub slip. It's still a pretty sizable operation of course and is most certainly still a hub, but UA at LAX isn't what it used to be.

AMALH747430 wrote:
It’s sad to see UA shrink in SEA but it was kind of inevitable. I believe they used to codeshare with AS back when AS codeshared with EVERYONE. Once that ended and DL began to build up their own presence it really didn’t make sense. UA has the grand prize of the TPAC hubs and a sizable LAX operation so SEA was really superfluous. Especially in light of the fact that DL and AS + all the international carriers they codeshare with were all chasing an over served passenger base.


I don't believe PMUA and AS ever had a codeshare. CO and AS definitely did; that ended when CO joined Star.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
kavok
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 7:07 pm

onwFan wrote:
kavok wrote:
onwFan wrote:

True. But it is difficult to read into VS's service as they have most routes fully loaded two weeks out at any point of time.


1- I don’t expect VS to serve SEA-LHR in June. That being said, from a business standpoint, it may be valuable enough to advertise it, sell some tickets by pax looking for a nonstop flight, and then later in drop it and reroute pax via JFK/ATL. Obviously some pax will cash in for a refund, but many others will simply accept the connection.

2- Given the JV, don’t look at DL or VS on SEA-LHR as separate entities. It is a question of whether DL/VS together will serve the route, and then if so, DL/VS then decide which airline makes sense to fly it (and at what frequency). Going back to point 1, given that DL/VS has opted not to serve DTW/MSP-LHR in June, odds are very slim DL/VS will keep SEA-LHR in June either. DL/VS will be back someday soon on SEA-LHR, but probably not in June.

I wasn’t questioning whether DL/VS will serve SEA-LHR. Yes, they need to be viewed as one. Which is why my point was just that I don’t see them both flying the route for a combined 2x daily (which is what is loaded) anytime in the near future.


Agreed.

And apologies on my part for very poor wording in my post. While I was referring to the 2x daily in both points, re-reading it I can see how it it sounded like I was referring to DL/VS serving the route at all. A better and simpler way to put it would have been: If DL/VS isn’t going to serve DTW/MSP-LHR at all in June, I can’t see them justifying 2x daily from SEA. But I could be wrong.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 8:10 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
However, I also realized I left off Aer Lingus of OW carriers, making DUB & LHR accessible non-stop. LHR is arguably the biggest O&D Euro station from SEA and I’d wager DUB has more O&D than AMS.

How does Aer Lingus make LHR accessible nonstop?? Do they fly LHR-SEA?
I find it hard to believe that O&D for SEA-DUB is bigger than SEA-AMS

No it's not...SEA-AMS is larger than SEA-DUB, with 2X daily during the peak seasons. And the SEA-AMS route has been around forever!

Pre-pandemic, the SEA-DUB was catching on pretty quickly with daily A330 service during the peak months and 4X to 5X weekly during the other times.

Unfortunately, Aer Lingus has NOT returned to SEA and there hasn't been any announcements of their return.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 8:11 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
kavok wrote:
onwFan wrote:

True. But it is difficult to read into VS's service as they have most routes fully loaded two weeks out at any point of time.


1- I don’t expect VS to serve SEA-LHR in June. That being said, from a business standpoint, it may be valuable enough to advertise it, sell some tickets by pax looking for a nonstop flight, and then later in drop it and reroute pax via JFK/ATL. Obviously some pax will cash in for a refund, but many others will simply accept the connection.

2- Given the JV, don’t look at DL or VS on SEA-LHR as separate entities. It is a question of whether DL/VS together will serve the route, and then if so, DL/VS then decide which airline makes sense to fly it (and at what frequency). Going back to point 1, given that DL/VS has opted not to serve DTW/MSP-LHR in June, odds are very slim DL/VS will keep SEA-LHR in June either. DL/VS will be back someday soon on SEA-LHR, but probably not in June.

Going back to the original topic, is there any discussion of what becomes of the DL SkyClub space in the S satellite?


What? DL is currently flying SEA-LHR.


Yes...DL just started SEA-LHR using a 767-400 3X weekly. Probably more as a response to AA's 777-200ER SEA-LHR flight 4X weekly.
 
jayunited
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 8:37 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:

UA only has three gates at SEA?!


First there was bankruptcy then came Smisek's shrink your way into profitability. UA give up quite a bit at SEA over the years and when Delta decided to make SEA their hub UA had no choice but to tuck tail and run.

UA has the largest transpacific hub in the Americas at SFO--~4x the seats of DL at SEA--and is the largest transpacific carrier period. With JV partner NH covering Tokyo and DL/AA duking it out, they have little need to be in SEA transpacific



Where in my entire post did I ever say UA needs to be in the SEA transpacific market? I don't understand why this is such a touchy subject for some people, lets drag UA's SFO hub into a thread about SEA.

I'm now in my 25 year with United Airlines and the truth is the truth United gave up quite a bit at SEA.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 526
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 8:47 pm

So UA will have only 3 dedicated gates and no access to common use gates on B like they had on A?

Even though United shrunk SEA over the years to hubs only, pre-COVID they still had a significant sized operation with 25 or so flights. I remember times a few years ago, especially in the late evening when they moved were working 2 ORD, 1 IAD, and 1 EWR flights and possibly even the last SFO as well. Hard to imagine they could make that work on three gates with 25 flights unless they don’t intend to come back the way they were pre-COVID. SEA and SAN seem to be of similar size for UA, and they frequently utilize 4-5 gates there as well
 
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diverdave
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 8:50 pm

HunterATL wrote:
DL will build a new 25,000 sf SkyClub next to gate A11.


As I recall, The Club at Seattle is located in that area in the previous Delta Crown Room Club that was closed in 2008.

The new SkyClub will be above The Club, so right above the predecessor Crown Room Club.

sprxUSA wrote:
No, UA and AS never have codeshared ...


Though back in the day, Continental and AS did have codeshares.

David
 
gwrudolph
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 8:54 pm

jayunited wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
jayunited wrote:

First there was bankruptcy then came Smisek's shrink your way into profitability. UA give up quite a bit at SEA over the years and when Delta decided to make SEA their hub UA had no choice but to tuck tail and run.

UA has the largest transpacific hub in the Americas at SFO--~4x the seats of DL at SEA--and is the largest transpacific carrier period. With JV partner NH covering Tokyo and DL/AA duking it out, they have little need to be in SEA transpacific



Where in my entire post did I ever say UA needs to be in the SEA transpacific market? I don't understand why this is such a touchy subject for some people, lets drag UA's SFO hub into a thread about SEA.

I'm now in my 25 year with United Airlines and the truth is the truth United gave up quite a bit at SEA.


Not really gave up quite a bit. Other than the 2 international flights, which weren’t going to stay, most of the original flying is still in tact, just at a smaller gauge aircraft (of course, that’s par for the course everywhere other than hub to hub these days). Moreover, with the CO merger, arguably they added a few flights to IAH and EWR.

Also back when they were at that old satellite concourse, most of the time, they only had a few active flights at any point in time. That level of gate underutilization was quite common in a lot of out stations including PHL, pre-merger EWR, etc
 
SEAflyer97
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Re: DL and UA to swap gates at SEA; DL to build new SkyClub on A and vacate South Satellite

Sun May 09, 2021 9:01 pm

seatown1 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
I hear what you’re saying and admit I didn’t know CX had confirmed (for now) that SEA was permanently cut. However, I also realized I left off Aer Lingus of OW carriers, making DUB & LHR accessible non-stop. LHR is arguably the biggest O&D Euro station from SEA and I’d wager DUB has more O&D than AMS. On top of that the only advantage DL’s partners AF & KL have over BA @ LHR are larger African networks which I’ve never heard SEA of having much demand to. OW is much stronger to India collectively than Skyteam between AA, BA & QR, dominates LHR and I wouldn’t be surprised to see AA add more service to Asia n/s from SEA in the next year or two. While I didn’t mean to suggest DL is backing down I still stand by my statement that DL has a big challenge ahead of them in SEA compared to when they first started the SEA hub build out which has seen a couple failures already (HKG & KIX). I’d be shocked if we even see n/s DL SEA - PVG/PEK in the near term.


AMS was larger than DUB pre-covid. Delta has been flying SEA-ICN-PVG since US carriers were allowed to restart service to China. They actually briefly flew it nonstop, but had to return to the ICN stopover due to the draconian conditions the crews were facing laying over in China. United had the same issue and is also still flying via ICN. PEK won't come back until more frequencies are allocated by the Chinese government. Currently, US carriers are limited to 4x/weekly frequency each. Delta is splitting them between SEA and DTW while United is using all 4 for SFO. By comparison, American only restarted PVG relatively recently from DFW (via ICN), and hasn't been using all of it's frequencies.

One area it seems like Delta has a clear advantage in SEA is their hard product at the airport. The current A lounge is both larger and has more amenities (hot food and showers) than the new Alaska lounge in N. This new lounge will be larger and will likely be even nicer, as it's adjacent to the gates that Delta expects to use for it's international flights.

AS does not fly international so I don’t get why they need a big fancy lounge like DL. The current N sat lounge is big enough for its operation. Also, AS is likely to get another new lounge in the expanded C1 building so they would eventually have a big nice lounge at great location as well. PoS is likely to keep A11-14 as common use for intl carriers so DL’s new lounge might be one or two travelator’s away from most of its gates.

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