Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
tjwgrr
Topic Author
Posts: 2557
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2000 4:09 am

Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Mon May 10, 2021 4:52 pm

A Boutique Air PC-12 lost the larger cabin cargo door during its takeoff roll from MSP on a flight to IWD (Ironwood, MI) on Wednesday 5-May. A carry-on was "sucked out" but later returned to the passenger. 4B flt 834.

https://kbjr6.com/2021/05/06/wakefield- ... g-takeoff/
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1955
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Mon May 10, 2021 4:59 pm

wouldn't be surprised if IWD isn't furiously looking at replacement possibilities. They had the wheel fall off another IWD involved flight. And this winter 4B had a week or two of straight cancellations. dont know if it was contaminated runway issue or crew staffing or what
 
drdisque
Posts: 1461
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Mon May 10, 2021 5:23 pm

RJNUT wrote:
wouldn't be surprised if IWD isn't furiously looking at replacement possibilities. They had the wheel fall off another IWD involved flight. And this winter 4B had a week or two of straight cancellations. dont know if it was contaminated runway issue or crew staffing or what


I don't think if any of this stuff is significant for the DOT to initiate a search for a replacement carrier.

That being said Air Choice One will be down to just JBR and BRL at the end of the month and I'm sure they'd be glad to take IWD back, however, probably only with ORD service.
 
User avatar
JBo
Posts: 1828
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:23 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Mon May 10, 2021 5:57 pm

RJNUT wrote:
wouldn't be surprised if IWD isn't furiously looking at replacement possibilities. They had the wheel fall off another IWD involved flight. And this winter 4B had a week or two of straight cancellations. dont know if it was contaminated runway issue or crew staffing or what


Boutique's current two-year EAS contract expires July 2022, so they're stuck with them for another year unless the DOT intervenes.

With Cape Air making some EAS inroads in the area (they recently won the contract for Manistee), they might be the best bet for taking over, but they don't have the codeshares in MSP like they do ORD (UA). I'm also not sure that IWD has the ARFF/Part 139 certification to handle CRJs for SkyWest to bid.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
drdisque
Posts: 1461
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Mon May 10, 2021 6:08 pm

JBo wrote:
I'm also not sure that IWD has the ARFF/Part 139 certification to handle CRJs for SkyWest to bid.


IWD does: http://aireform.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... AA-12p.pdf

If I recall back when RAH owned Midwest Airlines/Frontier Chautauqua flew the EAS MKE-IWD with an ERJ-135. Chautauqua was held in well after the MKE hub was pulled down to a point where the IWD flight's only online connections were to MBL and DEN and seasonal MCO.
 
User avatar
JBo
Posts: 1828
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:23 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Mon May 10, 2021 6:13 pm

drdisque wrote:
JBo wrote:
I'm also not sure that IWD has the ARFF/Part 139 certification to handle CRJs for SkyWest to bid.


IWD does: http://aireform.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... AA-12p.pdf

If I recall back when RAH owned Midwest Airlines/Frontier Chautauqua flew the EAS MKE-IWD with an ERJ-135. Chautauqua was held in well after the MKE hub was pulled down to a point where the IWD flight's only online connections were to MBL and DEN and seasonal MCO.


I couldn't recall if RP served IWD during that period or not. I know MBL had some work to do to get certified for the jet before they could fly there.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5511
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Mon May 10, 2021 6:44 pm

I used to think boutique had it all figured out. Now it seems like they are just neither unreliable turboprop operator
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16129
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Mon May 10, 2021 7:10 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
A Boutique Air PC-12 lost the larger cabin cargo door during its takeoff roll from MSP on a flight to IWD (Ironwood, MI) on Wednesday 5-May. A carry-on was "sucked out" but later returned to the passenger. 4B flt 834.

https://kbjr6.com/2021/05/06/wakefield- ... g-takeoff/


If I were to guess the cargo door was closed however not locked and the prop wash at the start of the takeoff roll caused enough aerodynamic load to open and remove it.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
Noshow
Posts: 2511
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Mon May 10, 2021 7:14 pm

Spectacular but if the door didn't hit the tail it's not so dangerous if just the door is missing and the structure intact. Panorama class.
 
tys777
Moderator
Posts: 602
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:43 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Mon May 10, 2021 10:32 pm

Two pilots have been fired and Boutique is pulling out of IWD

https://kbjr6.com/2021/05/10/boutique-a ... o-airport/
 
SoCalPilot
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:37 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Mon May 10, 2021 10:56 pm

tys777 wrote:
Two pilots have been fired and Boutique is pulling out of IWD

https://kbjr6.com/2021/05/10/boutique-a ... o-airport/

Yeah, as someone who has countless hours instructing on the PC-12, I don't see how could happen except for extreme neglect on the par

The way the door is designed makes it nearly impossible for it to come open after being locked and it's pretty easy tell if its not locked all the way, which is:

1. Red/Green indication on the outside of the door.
2. Red Warning light and red CAWS message in the cockpit (on the type I flew it was 3 lights total).
3. And if for some reason the indication on the outside was wrong (highly unlikely) and all of the warning lights in the cockpit failed (again, highly unlikely): it is impossible for the door to come open if the handle is flush with the fuselage, aka locked. Which they should have checked.

They also must have been pretty close to rotation speed if the door came off the aircraft as Pilatus says the door is good up to at least 60 knots of wind.
 
MO11
Posts: 1785
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Mon May 10, 2021 11:27 pm

What I find amazing is that the airplane returned to service on Sunday. Must not have been that bad.
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1955
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Mon May 10, 2021 11:42 pm

TVF seems happy with Denver Air Connection and DAC is adding ORD-ATY so it might be an option, although the PIR and ATY service award for DAC is being appealed by SkyWest, so who knows!
 
acecrackshot
Posts: 215
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:22 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 12:02 am

tys777 wrote:
Two pilots have been fired and Boutique is pulling out of IWD

https://kbjr6.com/2021/05/10/boutique-a ... o-airport/


Now that’s a safety culture!
 
User avatar
FLALEFTY
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:33 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 1:03 am

Boutique Air has had 1 hull-loss accident and 2 major incidents (including this most recent one) in the span of 13 months. All involved the PC-12, but were for different issues.

In April 2020, the hull-loss accident was BTQ902, a re-position flight from DFW to GLH. Shortly after takeoff from DFW, the single pilot reported engine trouble to ATC, but did not declare an emergency and attempted to continue his flight. ATC tried to encourage him to return back to DFW, or divert to a closer airport, but the pilot was distracted trying to troubleshoot the failing engine. When his engine finally failed, he asked to be diverted to the nearest airport, which was Mesquite Metro Airport. However, due to excessive loss of airspeed and altitude under glide, he failed to make the field. The pilot survived with serious injuries and the PC-12 was written off.

In January 2021 was flight BTQ835 (IWD-ORD) where the PC-12 lost the left main landing gear wheel while on approach to ORD, which landed in a residential neighborhood. The plane landed safely, but the PC-12 suffered damage.

And of course we have this most recent incident.

It appears that as Boutique is expanding into these EAS markets, they are hiring pilots and maintenance crews with inadequate experience, or poor skills.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 7821
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 2:55 am

Or their culture is so poor, pilots would rather crash than admit a problem and take the right actions. “You will complete the assignment, we don’t care about the engine failure excuse”.
 
Utah744
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:41 pm

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 2:58 am

In the winter time the perfect plane for IWD is/was the CV-580.
You are never too old to learn something stupid
 
alfa164
Posts: 3953
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 3:49 am

Utah744 wrote:
In the winter time the perfect plane for IWD is/was the CV-580.

Or a Martin 4-0-4. I miss those planes!
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
WA707atMSP
Posts: 2022
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 2:43 pm

RJNUT wrote:
wouldn't be surprised if IWD isn't furiously looking at replacement possibilities. They had the wheel fall off another IWD involved flight. And this winter 4B had a week or two of straight cancellations. dont know if it was contaminated runway issue or crew staffing or what


I had good flights on Boutique Air DEN-VEL-SLC in 2018, and DEN-ALS in 2019, but I heard from Denver Air Connection employees at TVF that Boutique's operation in TVF was very unreliable, mainly because Boutique had problems de icing their Pilatuses.

It's a shame DL has lost interest in EAS routes, because a Skywest CRJ-100 MSP-IWD-DTW would probably meet Ironwood's needs better than any other operator.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9635
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 3:04 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
It's a shame DL has lost interest in EAS routes, because a Skywest CRJ-100 MSP-IWD-DTW would probably meet Ironwood's needs better than any other operator.


Any reason DL would decline to interline or codeshare if SkyWest took that as an EAS route?
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1955
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 3:23 pm

If Skywest bids , im sure it would be as UA Express to ORD. DL seems to act like they are hamstrung with these Upper Midwest remaining EAS flights. They probably dont want to add additional markets and will reassess existing EAS markets at a later date. I almost feel they get pressure from state of Michigan to maintain their presence in the program.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 14432
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 3:29 pm

They even making advertising on it

Image
https://www.boutiqueair.com/p/our-aircraft

"Avoid the loud noises of commercial aircraft, arrive at your destination well-rested."

Image
https://kbjr6.com/2021/05/06/wakefield- ... g-takeoff/

:covereyes:

:wink2:
Last edited by keesje on Tue May 11, 2021 3:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
alasizon
Posts: 2987
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 3:29 pm

RJNUT wrote:
If Skywest bids , im sure it would be as UA Express to ORD. DL seems to act like they are hamstrung with these Upper Midwest remaining EAS flights. They probably dont want to add additional markets and will reassess existing EAS markets at a later date. I almost feel they get pressure from state of Michigan to maintain their presence in the program.


It also comes down to scope, pro-rate/EAS don't count towards scope and DL is making the appearance that they are cutting down on the scope-excluded flying which buys a little good grace in the eyes of their pilots. UA on the other hand doesn't seem to care. (AA has already eliminated all pro-rate/EAS flying and all CR2s from the fleet which is why nothing is bid under the AA banner)

It seems like a pretty nuclear option to just up and leave the market effective immediately so that almost sounds like 4B underbid the subsidy and is just using this as a justification to get out.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1955
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 3:50 pm

4B stated they will continue service until another provider is found but im sure it will be unreliable, lameduck service, similar to Chadron NE which they are losing to Southern Airways Express..
 
ILNFlyer
Posts: 675
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 4:10 pm

keesje wrote:
They even making advertising on it

Image
https://www.boutiqueair.com/p/our-aircraft

"Avoid the loud noises of commercial aircraft, arrive at your destination well-rested."

Image
https://kbjr6.com/2021/05/06/wakefield- ... g-takeoff/

:covereyes:

:wink2:


Kind of like the annual report filed by National Airlines many years ago when stockholders were told that some of the profits that year were from the "unplanned conversion of a 727 aircraft" that had crashed.
 
User avatar
masonite
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:58 pm

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 4:43 pm

keesje wrote:
They even making advertising on it

Image
https://www.boutiqueair.com/p/our-aircraft

"Avoid the loud noises of commercial aircraft, arrive at your destination well-rested."

Image
https://kbjr6.com/2021/05/06/wakefield- ... g-takeoff/

:covereyes:

:wink2:

I don't think that's even the same aircraft. The wings are different colors. I think they just happened to have a picture on their website with the door open so that the interior was well lit.
A320, B712, B737, B738, B739, B752, B753, B763, B772, B789, CRJ2, CRJ9, E75S, E75L, MD83, MD90
 
SyracuseAvGeek
Posts: 758
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 6:55 pm

keesje wrote:
They even making advertising on it

Image
https://www.boutiqueair.com/p/our-aircraft

"Avoid the loud noises of commercial aircraft, arrive at your destination well-rested."

Image
https://kbjr6.com/2021/05/06/wakefield- ... g-takeoff/

:covereyes:

:wink2:


If you look at both pictures there is a little metal arm that extends upward from the side of the door, that is the hydraulic arm for the cargo door, which both pictures have. The news greatly over exaggerated it, the door did not “fly off”, it opened. Yes that is also bad but saying the door “flew off the plane” is misinformation on the part of the news outlets.

This person on YouTube has made MANY videos about flying on this carrier, one of which was posted less than a month ago.

https://youtube.com/c/GerardiAviationPh ... roductions

Wonder what experience he/she has had with the airline?
"I haven't been everywhere yet, but it's on my list."
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5511
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 7:06 pm

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
keesje wrote:
They even making advertising on it

Image
https://www.boutiqueair.com/p/our-aircraft

"Avoid the loud noises of commercial aircraft, arrive at your destination well-rested."

Image
https://kbjr6.com/2021/05/06/wakefield- ... g-takeoff/

:covereyes:

:wink2:


If you look at both pictures there is a little metal arm that extends upward from the side of the door, that is the hydraulic arm for the cargo door, which both pictures have. The news greatly over exaggerated it, the door did not “fly off”, it opened. Yes that is also bad but saying the door “flew off the plane” is misinformation on the part of the news outlets.

This person on YouTube has made MANY videos about flying on this carrier, one of which was posted less than a month ago.

https://youtube.com/c/GerardiAviationPh ... roductions

Wonder what experience he/she has had with the airline?

YouTube Noel Philipps just flied with them and his return got canceled lol
 
SyracuseAvGeek
Posts: 758
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 7:18 pm

32andBelow wrote:
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
keesje wrote:
They even making advertising on it

Image
https://www.boutiqueair.com/p/our-aircraft

"Avoid the loud noises of commercial aircraft, arrive at your destination well-rested."

Image
https://kbjr6.com/2021/05/06/wakefield- ... g-takeoff/

:covereyes:

:wink2:


If you look at both pictures there is a little metal arm that extends upward from the side of the door, that is the hydraulic arm for the cargo door, which both pictures have. The news greatly over exaggerated it, the door did not “fly off”, it opened. Yes that is also bad but saying the door “flew off the plane” is misinformation on the part of the news outlets.

This person on YouTube has made MANY videos about flying on this carrier, one of which was posted less than a month ago.

https://youtube.com/c/GerardiAviationPh ... roductions

Wonder what experience he/she has had with the airline?

YouTube Noel Philipps just flied with them and his return got canceled lol


The persons YouTube channel that I added the link to

https://youtube.com/c/GerardiAviationPh ... roductions

They did the exact same trip as him but in reverse. And none of his/her flight got cancelled. But I guess it all depends on the day.
"I haven't been everywhere yet, but it's on my list."
 
btvbosguy
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:32 pm

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 7:25 pm

Yikes! What is the safety record of the PC-12? I'm doing BOS-BTV later this month...fingers crossed
Coach-flying, amateur plane-spotting Tourist.
 
flybaurlax
Posts: 647
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:34 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Tue May 11, 2021 9:21 pm

keesje wrote:
They even making advertising on it

Image
https://www.boutiqueair.com/p/our-aircraft

"Avoid the loud noises of commercial aircraft, arrive at your destination well-rested."

Image
https://kbjr6.com/2021/05/06/wakefield- ... g-takeoff/

:covereyes:

:wink2:


Different aircraft, and you can see the door is in fact installed by the upper fwd hold open rod is in the open position.
Boilerup! Go Purdue!
 
gabik001
Posts: 513
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:16 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Wed May 12, 2021 1:44 am

Wheel, now door, I am curious when and where they gonna loose an engine :)
Canon 50D gripped + Canon 70D + 17-40 L + 24-105 L IS + 50 f/1.8 STM + 100-400L IS USM + Sigma 150-600 S
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10826
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

Re: Boutique Air PC-12 loses door during takeoff roll from MSP

Wed May 12, 2021 2:09 am

gabik001 wrote:
Wheel, now door, I am curious when and where they gonna loose an engine :)


They already have - although the prop stayed on. Maybe that will be next, I just hope it's not a smoking hole in the ground coming up next.

I've had a few nice flights with Boutique, a real shame they are having these issues and I hope they are able to address whatever is driving them.
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos