Source:
https://www.aeroin.net/lufthansa-instal ... mento/?amp

Excerpts (translated from Portuguese):

Lufthansa Group announced this week that it has put into operation an Embraer E190-E2 full flight simulator, one of the few existing in the world, at its newly certified Lufthansa Aviation Training (LAT) training academy in Zurich, Switzerland.

According to the company, the addition creates the best conditions for LAT to expand its partnership with Swiss airline Helvetic Airways and other customers with a complete on-site solution for training flight and cabin crew.

Big order expected?!

Antaras wrote:

Big order expected?!

Source:
https://www.airway1.com/embraer-admits- ... jet-order/

Excerpts:

Embraer admitted that it is discussing with Lufthansa about a possible order for new commercial aircraft,
but denied that the matter is sufficiently relevant to motivate a statement to the stock market.

The statement was published on Friday after Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr revealed at a symposium that the company is interested
in the Brazilian manufacturer’s commercial jets.
As it is listed on the stock exchange, Embraer needs to communicate relevant information in order
to avoid a possible fluctuation in the value of its shares.

Antaras wrote:

Big order expected?!

FYI, Lufthansa Flight Training is a big business in itself, providing training to many airlines, not just Lufthansa Group. It is not indicative of an upcoming order (nor does it preclude it).

They currently have simulators for following types that the group does not fly at the moment, or never flew at all:
- CRJ-100
- Q400
- ERJ-145
- 767
- AW109
- 757
- A310
- 737-800
- 737-300
- A300
- H145

Looking up a list of approved flight simulators published by EASA, it doesn't look like there are many EASA certified E2 simulators in Europe (there are several E1 sims though).

Antaras wrote:

Big order expected?!

The CRJs at Cityline will most likely be replaced by 223s or E2 195s or used A319s. But I don’t expect a decision this year. For now it’s more used 319s (7 coming from OS). OS also Parks some 320s (longer term) and LX likely, too. The question hence will be not only is it worthwhile to order new, but are trip costs that much lower to 320s to account for all the capital costs associated with new aircraft.

That will be true for another 2-3 years, probably.

Longer term, replacements at OS and EN are also a possibility. (OS maybe in 8-10 years) Their Ejets are still very young though.

One way or the other, this will create years of discussion.

Lufthansa Aviation training, as already noted, is an profit oriented business that serves more than LH.

This, at a minimum, removes an obstacle to adopting the E2-190/195. In their advertising, they have proudly displayed A320 and 737-800 simulators side by side. I'm quite certain they won't be buying 737-800s...
https://www.lufthansa-aviation-training ... ng-devices

But this also doesn't mean no E2-190/195 order. I'm going to agree with DUSZRH, this is for something years our.

As noted:
uote="Antaras"]Big order expected?![/quote]

FYI, Lufthansa Flight Training is a big business in itself, providing training to many airlines, not just Lufthansa Group. It is not indicative of an upcoming order (nor does it preclude it).

They currently have simulators for following types that the group does not fly at the moment, or never flew at all:
- CRJ-100
- Q400
- ERJ-145
- 767
- AW109
- 757
- A310
- 737-800
- 737-300
- A300
- H145

Looking up a list of approved flight simulators published by EASA, it doesn't look like there are many EASA certified E2 simulators in Europe (there are several E1 sims though).[/quote]

Chances are Helvetic trains their pilots at Lufthansa Aviation so the sim will be used.

DUSZRH wrote:

Antaras wrote:

Big order expected?!

The CRJs at Cityline will most likely be replaced by 223s or E2 195s or used A319s. But I don’t expect a decision this year. For now it’s more used 319s (7 coming from OS). OS also Parks some 320s (longer term) and LX likely, too. The question hence will be not only is it worthwhile to order new, but are trip costs that much lower to 320s to account for all the capital costs associated with new aircraft.

That will be true for another 2-3 years, probably.

Longer term, replacements at OS and EN are also a possibility. (OS maybe in 8-10 years) Their Ejets are still very young though.

Eventually Lufthansa Group needs to replace the CRJ-900, E1 E-jets and A319. Possibly also recover lost capacity from the retired Q400s. That's 180-200 aircraft, more than enough to justify both the E2 and A220.

FluidFlow wrote:

Chances are Helvetic trains their pilots at Lufthansa Aviation so the sim will be used.

Yes, it just proves, that Helvetic is flying for them (Swiss) with E190 E2. Where is the Sim located? Zurich.
https://www.lufthansa-aviation-training.com/en/flight-simulation-training-devices

FluidFlow wrote:

Chances are Helvetic trains their pilots at Lufthansa Aviation so the sim will be used.

That's been officially confirmed by Helvetic:

Another achievement for Helvetic Airways and its long-standing partner @lufthansaaviationtraining (LAT). With the certification and deployment of an @embraer E190-E2 full-flight simulator at the Zurich training facility, our cockpit crews can now train directly in Switzerland.

"This step is another milestone in Helvetic's consistent development," says Nicolas Bachmann, our Nominated Person Crew Training and Deputy Accountable Manager. "With the new simulator in Zurich, we are increasing our efficiency and flexibility. It also makes planning training and staffing much easier. Thanks to new technical functionalities in the simulator, training and taking exams will be more realistic than ever before."

(from https://www.instagram.com/p/COsgiZdhk76/?)

Assume also Widerøe is a potential customer here?

Someone83 wrote:

Assume also Widerøe is a potential customer here?

LH has an excellent reputation, everyone/every airline, who has no own simulator will need an external one. And LH aviationn training is one of the biggest.

And when LH has taken over the other airlines, like Austrian or Swiss, they have not closed their local simulator sites (as other company globally would have pretty sure done). So Now they have simulator training facilities in Zurich (Swiss), Vienna (AUA), Munich, Berlin and Essen and additional also flight academies as example in Bremen e.g.
It is also the biggest IATA/IOAS audit provider and training facility globally.

EMBSPBR wrote:

Lufthansa Group announced this week that it has put into operation an Embraer E190-E2 full flight simulator, one of the few existing in the world, at its newly certified Lufthansa Aviation Training (LAT) training academy in Zurich, Switzerland.

Isn't the cockpit layout and TR for the E1 & E2 series the same? So would the E1 sims around the world included in that few existing in the world, or that separate?
I'm also curious to know the cost of these sims vs the other popular models like of A320/737. And why many airlines don't invest in having their own sims and rather prefer third party providers.

avier wrote:

EMBSPBR wrote:

Lufthansa Group announced this week that it has put into operation an Embraer E190-E2 full flight simulator, one of the few existing in the world, at its newly certified Lufthansa Aviation Training (LAT) training academy in Zurich, Switzerland.

Isn't the cockpit layout and TR for the E1 & E2 series the same? So would the E1 sims around the world included in that few existing in the world, or that separate?
I'm also curious to know the cost of these sims vs the other popular models like of A320/737. And why many airlines don't invest in having their own sims and rather prefer third party providers.

I believe its similar and the need for a differences course is all that is mandated, but sim rates tend to be lower for more popular aircraft, and the reason you outsource sim's is you either need surge capacity or don't have enough need to fill one up constantly

avier wrote:

And why many airlines don't invest in having their own sims and rather prefer third party providers.

I'll posit that prospective weak utilization of sims is a big part of why not. Nobody other than SkyWest or Republic has an E-jet (70/75/90/95) fleet to rival the size of the larger 737/A320 fleets.

avier wrote:

EMBSPBR wrote:

Isn't the cockpit layout and TR for the E1 & E2 series the same? So would the E1 sims around the world included in that few existing in the world, or that separate?

Different cockpits layouts, however ...

Source:
https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug ... -aisle-jet

Excerpt_
Another key program target where the E190-E2 obtained better results than initial expectations is in pilots transition training time.
Pilots of Current generation E-Jets will need only 2.5 days of training and no full flight simulator to fly an E2.
“Decreasing the training burden for pilots transitioning from E1 is another huge reduction in both time and cost for our operators”,
explained Rodrigo Silva e Souza, Marketing VP, Embraer Commercial Aviation".

Sim training is a huge business on its own. Very expensive to install, certify, and maintain. It is still cheaper than burning cycles and dinosaur juice in the real thing, but still very expensive to the point that many airlines don't even have their own sims, at least not for their entire fleet. I can't recall off the top of my head but wasn't there some obscure arrangement regarding Southwest and Delta with the 717's? I tend to recall Southwest paid Delta to use their 717 sims when they took over the AirTran fleet, not wanting to purchase their own. Fierce competitors, but the money is the same color.

VSMUT wrote:

Looking up a list of approved flight simulators published by EASA, it doesn't look like there are many EASA certified E2 simulators in Europe (there are several E1 sims though).

Well, there seems to be another E2 simulator not far from Germany. KLM has one, which is unsurprising since they have the largest Embraer fleet in Europe.
Not sure if this one is EASA certified but one would assume it is. --> Edit: It is, the certificate is actually downloadable on the link below.

https://www.klmflightcrewtraining.com/simulators.php

jetmatt777 wrote:

I tend to recall Southwest paid Delta to use their 717 sims when they took over the AirTran fleet, not wanting to purchase their own. Fierce competitors, but the money is the same color.

It might have been the other way around. DL didn’t get a 717 sim until 2016, which is well after WN stopped flying the 717. I’m not sure if AirTran had their own sim (which WN would have gotten when they purchased the airline) or if they contracted out, but it was never to Delta.

MIflyer12 wrote:

avier wrote:

And why many airlines don't invest in having their own sims and rather prefer third party providers.

I'll posit that prospective weak utilization of sims is a big part of why not. Nobody other than SkyWest or Republic has an E-jet (70/75/90/95) fleet to rival the size of the larger 737/A320 fleets.

I would also note that owning the own sim makes it a challenge to train everyone during the off season, while a training center will have far more staff to surge train.

It takes having enough pilots to utilize multiple training staff to justify buying a sim. As already noted, it is more than a sym. It is developing (or licensing) the training materials, scenarios, and keeping the sym certified. The business is going more and more to training centers.
1. An airline has a training center and then trains outside pilots to increase sim utilization.
2. Own fewer sims than needed and outsource the surge needs
3. Outsource the full pilot training.

I'd have to imagine the training centers are hurting right now. I'd also have to imagine there won't be enough capacity for this summer.

Lightsaber

I just posted in the E2 production thread an identified order for 30 E2 195s.

https://leehamnews.com/2021/05/19/hotr- ... 5-e2-deal/

lightsaber wrote:

I'd have to imagine the training centers are hurting right now. I'd also have to imagine there won't be enough capacity for this summer.

Lightsaber

Not that much, as it’s cheaper to go to a sim than operating training flights

DUSZRH wrote:

Not that much, as it’s cheaper to go to a sim than operating training flights

Quite. Lots of “Recency Sims” happening at the moment. Much cheaper to do takeoffs and landings in the sim, than take an idle aircraft flying. Especially for long-haul crews who often struggle to maintain the required number of landings in normal times.

Regards
CROSSWIND

Crosswind wrote:

DUSZRH wrote:

Not that much, as it’s cheaper to go to a sim than operating training flights

Quite. Lots of “Recency Sims” happening at the moment. Much cheaper to do takeoffs and landings in the sim, than take an idle aircraft flying. Especially for long-haul crews who often struggle to maintain the required number of landings in normal times.

Regards
CROSSWIND

Interesting. I would have thought enough flight were happening, but good to know the sims are getting used.

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

Interesting. I would have thought enough flight were happening, but good to know the sims are getting used.

Lightsaber

Depends on where. Aviation in the US and Australia has almost recovered. Europe and Asia are still very much dead.

VSMUT wrote:

Antaras wrote:

Big order expected?!

FYI, Lufthansa Flight Training is a big business in itself, providing training to many airlines, not just Lufthansa Group. It is not indicative of an upcoming order (nor does it preclude it).

They currently have simulators for following types that the group does not fly at the moment, or never flew at all:
- CRJ-100
- Q400
- ERJ-145
- 767
- AW109
- 757
- A310
- 737-800
- 737-300
- A300
- H145

Looking up a list of approved flight simulators published by EASA, it doesn't look like there are many EASA certified E2 simulators in Europe (there are several E1 sims though).

OS is in LHG and currently has 767-300ER via Lauda merger ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_ ... rent_fleet ).

LH did fly A300, A310 and 737-300 in the past ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa_fleet ).

Same link suggests LH leased 767s for short periods of time.

I'm a bit at a loss to figure out how/why they have the 737NG sim, but https://www.lufthansa-aviation-training ... 7-800-ft35 says it's at Berlin SXF, so maybe they bought it when Air Berlin went under.

Revelation wrote:

I'm a bit at a loss to figure out how/why they have the 737NG sim, but https://www.lufthansa-aviation-training ... 7-800-ft35 says it's at Berlin SXF, so maybe they bought it when Air Berlin went under.

The LHG actually briefly operated the 737NG for 3 or 4 years via OS in the early 2010s courtesy of Luada merger.



(LHG purchased OS in 2009)

Can those be used to train on E2-195s and E2-175s as well? Are they specific to the E2-190 or are you just referring to the E2 family in general?