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PacoMartin
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:00 am

I wonder if Dublin will be the best place to base a future low cost airline built around the A321XLR?

Flights on an A321XLR should be able to reach SFO, if not LAX and Dublin has pre-clearance facility

KEF-SFO/LAX 3,653 nm/3,748 nm
DUB-SFO/LAX 4,430 nm/4,502 nm
DUB-SEA 3,945 nm

It seems like Stansted (STN) is just too far away from California. Oslo is only slightly better.
STN SFO/LAX 4,664 nm/4,744 nm
OSL SFO/LAX 4,515 nm/4,644 nm

Wow did fly to California with widebodies.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:56 am

PacoMartin wrote:
I wonder if Dublin will be the best place to base a future low cost airline built around the A321XLR?


Geographically, perhaps. The response from IAG and Ryanair would be ferocious. EI already have the XLR on order and use the A330 to LAX, SFO and SEA. Dublin is also a fairly small market with a lot of service from US hubs. I think an alternative hub point might be a wiser choice.
 
Breathe
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:34 pm

Hopefully PLAY will learn from the mistake of WOW air. Good luck to them.

It'll be interesting to see which destinations they start off with in Europe.
 
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enilria
Posts: 10410
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:09 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
I wonder if Dublin will be the best place to base a future low cost airline built around the A321XLR?

Flights on an A321XLR should be able to reach SFO, if not LAX and Dublin has pre-clearance facility

KEF-SFO/LAX 3,653 nm/3,748 nm
DUB-SFO/LAX 4,430 nm/4,502 nm
DUB-SEA 3,945 nm

It seems like Stansted (STN) is just too far away from California. Oslo is only slightly better.
STN SFO/LAX 4,664 nm/4,744 nm
OSL SFO/LAX 4,515 nm/4,644 nm

Wow did fly to California with widebodies.

Having pre-clearance at the hub isn't that great IMHO. The plane wants to fly in from Europe sit for maybe 60 minutes and fly onward to the USA to get maximum utilization. I'm not sure how monkeying that all up so passengers have time to process CBP at the connect point benefits anybody. Pre-clearance works much better at end points like CUN (which of course doesn't have it) or BDA/AUA/NAS.

Also, I'd be shocked if the XLR can actually make DUB-SFO without tech stops. Manufacturer range claims are notoriously unsustainable in the real world.
 
akb88
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:33 pm

Play are in talks with airports in Copenhagen, London, Paris, Berlin, Alicante and Tenerife.
 
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spinotter
Posts: 887
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:07 pm

Pudelhund wrote:
klm617 wrote:
spinotter wrote:

Except for DTW, I think your list is perfect. We don't need DTW, do we?



We sure do DTW needs this type of carrier and this type of carrier needs DTW. And before you say anything negative until they serve DTW and fail they are just as likely to succeeded.


I can’t imagine any airline in this day and age being successful unless they fly to DTW. It’s too important to have that kind of gap in the route network, especially for a transatlantic airline. It’s the Paris of the Midwest.


If Paris had been burned down fifty years ago and looked like it was on the way back to savage pre-Lutetia pre Caesar pre Druids.
 
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enilria
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:09 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
enilria wrote:
winginit wrote:

It baffles me that the common recommendations here are to start service to a swath of destinations that WW flew enticing passengers with ultra-low fares with only six A321s... as if that's not exactly what lead to the downfall of WW. Do we not learn from the past?

I'll be genuinely surprised if this PLAY takes flight at all.

They may not take flight, but I think Iceland and the companies invested in Iceland realized that the money WW was losing was small potatoes compared to how much money it was bringing into the economy. Not unlike EK in its earlier days. I'm sure they would like to make a profit, but there may be other goals this time.


No Icelandic government would subsidize a second Icelandic airline. If they would do it, they would have to subsidize Icelandair by the same amount. They could have a run in with the competition regulation of the EU.
The next question would be why. Iceland or better KEF is well connected as it is, no need for the government to do something. The effect of WOW going bust on the icelandic economy has been far less than anticipated.
For Icelandair the distribution between O&D and transit passengers has changed considerable. In 2018 O&D was 46 % and via (transit) was 54 %. This year up to end of Q3, it is 55% O&D and 45% via. So people are just flying more with other airlines to Iceland, but the transit via Iceland is sharply reduced.

If Play will be run as a business it may live. If they plan for subsidies, or run it at a loss to grow market share quickly, it will die like WOW.

When I was there over the Summer they (people working there) said business in the shops and restaurants was down 40-60% and that the big construction projects in town (entertainment mostly) may be halted.
 
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klm617
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:43 pm

enilria wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
enilria wrote:
They may not take flight, but I think Iceland and the companies invested in Iceland realized that the money WW was losing was small potatoes compared to how much money it was bringing into the economy. Not unlike EK in its earlier days. I'm sure they would like to make a profit, but there may be other goals this time.


No Icelandic government would subsidize a second Icelandic airline. If they would do it, they would have to subsidize Icelandair by the same amount. They could have a run in with the competition regulation of the EU.
The next question would be why. Iceland or better KEF is well connected as it is, no need for the government to do something. The effect of WOW going bust on the icelandic economy has been far less than anticipated.
For Icelandair the distribution between O&D and transit passengers has changed considerable. In 2018 O&D was 46 % and via (transit) was 54 %. This year up to end of Q3, it is 55% O&D and 45% via. So people are just flying more with other airlines to Iceland, but the transit via Iceland is sharply reduced.

If Play will be run as a business it may live. If they plan for subsidies, or run it at a loss to grow market share quickly, it will die like WOW.

When I was there over the Summer they (people working there) said business in the shops and restaurants was down 40-60% and that the big construction projects in town (entertainment mostly) may be halted.


But hey according to some very well informed posters here Iceland is doing OK without the extra tourist traffic.
 
alan3
Posts: 456
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:24 pm

klm617 wrote:
enilria wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

No Icelandic government would subsidize a second Icelandic airline. If they would do it, they would have to subsidize Icelandair by the same amount. They could have a run in with the competition regulation of the EU.
The next question would be why. Iceland or better KEF is well connected as it is, no need for the government to do something. The effect of WOW going bust on the icelandic economy has been far less than anticipated.
For Icelandair the distribution between O&D and transit passengers has changed considerable. In 2018 O&D was 46 % and via (transit) was 54 %. This year up to end of Q3, it is 55% O&D and 45% via. So people are just flying more with other airlines to Iceland, but the transit via Iceland is sharply reduced.

If Play will be run as a business it may live. If they plan for subsidies, or run it at a loss to grow market share quickly, it will die like WOW.

When I was there over the Summer they (people working there) said business in the shops and restaurants was down 40-60% and that the big construction projects in town (entertainment mostly) may be halted.


But hey according to some very well informed posters here Iceland is doing OK without the extra tourist traffic.


I'm not sure how okay it's doing but WOW's sudden rise so fast with fares so cheap it created a sudden boom, followd by a massive rush to fill the demand, which turned Iceland into the poster child for "overtourism" (lots of articles about Iceland Overtourism). And then the sudden collapse so quickly left a huge void. It wasn't a healthy long term pattern for a country so small.

I recommend this Skift article about it: https://skift.com/2019/09/11/the-rise-a ... m-miracle/

I'm sure some in the government probably would prefer a smaller but higher-spending luxury tourist market over a larger but volatile low-spending ULCC mass-tourism market.
 
dfw88
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:57 pm

Pudelhund wrote:
If I only knew Detroit by a.net, I would think it’s the second largest city in America after Atlanta.


This comment made my day. Well played.
 
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klm617
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:04 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Detroit and the surrounding area is very hip and is very popular with millennials. It is very artistic in nature. Detroit has already survived and thrived my friend. .


Not to burst your bubble, but the objective data will tell you that between 2011 and 2016 (the most recent available five year period) Detroit was one of only two measured major Metro areas in the country (next to Memphis) that saw a decrease in the millennial population...

City Millennial Population Growth, 2011-2016
Denver 18.7%
Austin 17.5%
San Francisco 16.2%
Seattle 14.4%
San Jose 13.3%
Raleigh 12.7%
Houston 12.0%
Washington DC 11.8%
Nashville 11.4%
Portland 11.3%
Charlotte 9.9%
Dallas 9.4%
New Orleans 9.3%
Oklahoma City 8.2%
Atlanta 7.2%
Indianapolis 6.8%
Boston 6.6%
Salt Lake City 6.5%
Columbus 6.4%
New York 6.2%
Kansas City 5.3%
Minneapolis 5.1%
Louisville 4.9%
Memphis -0.7%
Detroit -2.2%



Stop spreading misinformation this is just data for the city proper not the region . Your selective data gets old really quick and nobody is amused. Not to mention it's 3 years old
 
lavalampluva
Posts: 1433
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:43 am

They should go with a simpler paint job. They should be saving their coins.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3637
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:50 am

klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Detroit and the surrounding area is very hip and is very popular with millennials. It is very artistic in nature. Detroit has already survived and thrived my friend. .


Not to burst your bubble, but the objective data will tell you that between 2011 and 2016 (the most recent available five year period) Detroit was one of only two measured major Metro areas in the country (next to Memphis) that saw a decrease in the millennial population...

City Millennial Population Growth, 2011-2016
Denver 18.7%
Austin 17.5%
San Francisco 16.2%
Seattle 14.4%
San Jose 13.3%
Raleigh 12.7%
Houston 12.0%
Washington DC 11.8%
Nashville 11.4%
Portland 11.3%
Charlotte 9.9%
Dallas 9.4%
New Orleans 9.3%
Oklahoma City 8.2%
Atlanta 7.2%
Indianapolis 6.8%
Boston 6.6%
Salt Lake City 6.5%
Columbus 6.4%
New York 6.2%
Kansas City 5.3%
Minneapolis 5.1%
Louisville 4.9%
Memphis -0.7%
Detroit -2.2%



Stop spreading misinformation this is just data for the city proper not the region . Your selective data gets old really quick and nobody is amused. Not to mention it's 3 years old


Here's an article from last year: https://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/2 ... mong-urban

"Detroit doesn't rank near the top and it doesn't rank near the bottom; it's somewhere in between"


The 4.6 percent millennial growth in metro Detroit falls right in line with the national average


Though, it takes data from 2015... so not sure about the other years that resulted in a 2.2% decline from the source above.
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3425
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:39 am

Why has this turned into another thread about Detroit???

Getting back on topic, Play will need to be far more conservative in its growth plan than Wow was. Getting the fundamentals right will be key, but given the limited home market, it’s reliance on tourism and connecting traffic to make it work is always going to be risky.
 
winginit
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:39 am

klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Detroit and the surrounding area is very hip and is very popular with millennials. It is very artistic in nature. Detroit has already survived and thrived my friend. .


Not to burst your bubble, but the objective data will tell you that between 2011 and 2016 (the most recent available five year period) Detroit was one of only two measured major Metro areas in the country (next to Memphis) that saw a decrease in the millennial population...

City Millennial Population Growth, 2011-2016
Denver 18.7%
Austin 17.5%
San Francisco 16.2%
Seattle 14.4%
San Jose 13.3%
Raleigh 12.7%
Houston 12.0%
Washington DC 11.8%
Nashville 11.4%
Portland 11.3%
Charlotte 9.9%
Dallas 9.4%
New Orleans 9.3%
Oklahoma City 8.2%
Atlanta 7.2%
Indianapolis 6.8%
Boston 6.6%
Salt Lake City 6.5%
Columbus 6.4%
New York 6.2%
Kansas City 5.3%
Minneapolis 5.1%
Louisville 4.9%
Memphis -0.7%
Detroit -2.2%



Stop spreading misinformation this is just data for the city proper not the region . Your selective data gets old really quick and nobody is amused. Not to mention it's 3 years old


Very clearly states it was metro areas and not cities proper. Keep up.
 
arcticcruiser
Posts: 497
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:48 am

Discuss Detroit and its merits (or lack thereof) somewhere else.
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1959
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:11 am

Why do they think that this airline will succeed where WOW failed? It seems like the same business model and the same people. What are they planning to do differently this time around?
 
Someone83
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:34 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
Why do they think that this airline will succeed where WOW failed? It seems like the same business model and the same people. What are they planning to do differently this time around?


Remember, WOW was actually rather successful in their early years, before they over-expanded and chose the wrong equipment and wrong destinations
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:45 am

Someone83 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
Why do they think that this airline will succeed where WOW failed? It seems like the same business model and the same people. What are they planning to do differently this time around?


Remember, WOW was actually rather successful in their early years, before they over-expanded and chose the wrong equipment and wrong destinations


True. Maybe with a fleet of A320neos and a more careful strategy they can do better.
 
samuelx88
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:59 pm

According to this article, which I wasn't able to find in English, Play will first fly to the following cities :

Paris
London
Berlin
Alicante
Tenerife
Copenhagen

https://www.air-journal.fr/2019-11-11-i ... 16188.html
 
samuelx88
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:37 pm

samuelx88 wrote:
According to this article, which I wasn't able to find in English, Play will first fly to the following cities :

Paris
London
Berlin
Alicante
Tenerife
Copenhagen

https://www.air-journal.fr/2019-11-11-i ... 16188.html


Flying to Alicante and Tenerife seems like a bad idea for Play before they fly to North America. These two routes will have to rely almost completely on offer and demand of Icelandics going down south for vacation in winter since there won't be any connection. Perhaps, a weekly flight to each of them might work.
 
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hvusslax
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:38 pm

samuelx88 wrote:
samuelx88 wrote:
According to this article, which I wasn't able to find in English, Play will first fly to the following cities :

Paris
London
Berlin
Alicante
Tenerife
Copenhagen

https://www.air-journal.fr/2019-11-11-i ... 16188.html


Flying to Alicante and Tenerife seems like a bad idea for Play before they fly to North America. These two routes will have to rely almost completely on offer and demand of Icelandics going down south for vacation in winter since there won't be any connection. Perhaps, a weekly flight to each of them might work.


Knowing my countrymen, Play will have no problem at all filling flights to Tenerife and Alicante, especially if the price is good. These will presumably not be daily flights to begin with if they start with only two aircraft.

As for North America, the CEO for Play said in Icelandic media tonight that they were looking at New York, Baltimore, Boston and Toronto.
 
Ishrion
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:02 pm

Ticket sales are delayed per their Instagram:

As a new airline on the market, we are very thankful for the great reception.
We at PLAY cannot wait to open our website and start selling tickets as well as flying you around the world!
As we are a startup company, things can sometimes take a little longer than planned as there are many tasks to finalize. Our original plan was to start selling tickets in November, but unfortunately, we must delay that a little longer.
Don’t worry, we are working hard on starting our sales as soon as possible and cannot wait to share our plans with you.
Again, thank you for the great reception and for showing us patience.
See you onboard!
 
Fex180
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:09 pm

I wonder if they would consider PVD, MHT or PWM as an alternative to BOS. That way they might not have to compete directly with FI. PWM in particular has been very eager to get a flight to KEF
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:18 pm

arcticcruiser wrote:

Discuss Detroit and its merits (or lack thereof) somewhere else.


They can't. The DTW thread got locked because of the continuous DTW-is-the-center-of-the-universe nonsense that certain posters try to turn EVERY damn thread into. Good luck getting your "Madagascar Aviation" thread to stay on topic.
Last edited by OzarkD9S on Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:20 pm

Fex180 wrote:

I wonder if they would consider PVD, MHT or PWM as an alternative to BOS. That way they might not have to compete directly with FI. PWM in particular has been very eager to get a flight to KEF


PVD maybe. MHT no. PWM is a lovely spring/summer/fall destination in it's own right so a far-fetched maybe.
 
Ishrion
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:53 pm

And after months of waiting, PLAY has announced it will launch in autumn 2020 with tickets on sale coming soon.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CBoPwbTF9aM/

Updated website: https://flyplay.com/

PLAY is a new low-cost airline operating flights between Iceland, Europe and North America. PLAY will offer globetrotters low-cost flights and a safe and pleasant journey in our new and comfortable Airbus aircraft.
 
kyrone
Posts: 166
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:03 pm

Seems like the thread title could do with an update since PLAY is separate from the WOW relaunch (although it doesn’t seem like Iceland is playing heavily into WOW 2.0‘s plans)
 
santi319
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:52 pm

Tragic timing
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:10 pm

I used to think that peak season for travel to Iceland was summer. Maybe launching in spring 2021 might be better than launching in autumn 2020
 
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sunking737
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:12 am

I thought WOW was going to relaunch as a cargo airline in the US??
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 612
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:24 am

Yeah how in the hell is this airline going to launch in the midst of all of this? Is there some incredible window of opportunity I'm not seeing here?
 
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Polot
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:36 am

sunking737 wrote:
I thought WOW was going to relaunch as a cargo airline in the US??


There are two different airlines. There is the sketchy totally-not-a-front-for-something US “airline” that bought the WOW brand and IP and is apparently launching cargo flights soon and this airline, PLAY, which is founded by former WOW executives and is basically that airline’s spiritual successor.
 
argentinevol98
Posts: 184
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:40 pm

Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:50 am

AaronPGH wrote:
Yeah how in the hell is this airline going to launch in the midst of all of this? Is there some incredible window of opportunity I'm not seeing here?


You would hope the managers do. I sure don't. I mean tell me a 2021 start and maybe it'll work, but this fall? That sounds ludicrous to me. Full international travel may very well still be suspended in several countries not to mention the possibility of a second wave in the winter (Northern Hemisphere). I could be all wrong about this but seems like a needlessly ballsy move to me.
 
dc855
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:41 am

Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:03 am

Yeah it seems quite risky to start operations at this time of year and under these circumstances. They however have at least two things going for them. According to people in the know bookings in and out of Iceland have been surprisingly healthy after the country announced its reopening. Secondly, as the Play people themselves have said, you are probably never getting as good lease rates on equipment as you can right now. I read an article the other day where they stated that they are paying the lessors by hours flown which should reduce the risk quite a bit.

It seems to me that the people in charge of Play have learned from Wow's mistakes. If they hold their cards right I can see them beating the competition from FI because even though Icelandair is desperately trying to reduce operating costs they are probably still too high. I expect Play's operating costs to be quite a bit lower and I know that this is the bet they themselves are making.
 
A380MSN004
Posts: 824
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:07 am

Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:25 pm

dc855 wrote:
Yeah it seems quite risky to start operations at this time of year and under these circumstances. They however have at least two things going for them. According to people in the know bookings in and out of Iceland have been surprisingly healthy after the country announced its reopening. Secondly, as the Play people themselves have said, you are probably never getting as good lease rates on equipment as you can right now. I read an article the other day where they stated that they are paying the lessors by hours flown which should reduce the risk quite a bit.

It seems to me that the people in charge of Play have learned from Wow's mistakes. If they hold their cards right I can see them beating the competition from FI because even though Icelandair is desperately trying to reduce operating costs they are probably still too high. I expect Play's operating costs to be quite a bit lower and I know that this is the bet they themselves are making.


If the article regarding the lease rate is in english can you post it here. Sounds like an interesting one
 
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klm617
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:22 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
I used to think that peak season for travel to Iceland was summer. Maybe launching in spring 2021 might be better than launching in autumn 2020



Not if you start out flying from KEF to warm weather destinations. It's a great time to start for Icelanders who want to vacation in a warm weather destination.
 
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klm617
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:25 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
Yeah how in the hell is this airline going to launch in the midst of all of this? Is there some incredible window of opportunity I'm not seeing here?



Actually its a great time to start an airline. People are looking for cheap airfares to get out of town for a vacation and all the legacies are at their weakest and vulnerable right now. Good time to carve out your market share and get your foot in the door. Not much the big boys can do unless they want to bleed more cash.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:56 pm

Iceland has a population of about 360,000. The region around the Reykjavik has a population of about 235,000. Yes, small.
In 2019, Keflavik airport had over 7 million pax - ie a lot of people who are not Icelandic residents. Icelandair, along with other airlines already provides service to a large number of places further south
If PLAY is to bring in any serious revenues, its passengers need to be mainly people who do not live in Iceland
 
Insertnamehere
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:44 am

Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:49 pm

dc855 wrote:
Yeah it seems quite risky to start operations at this time of year and under these circumstances. They however have at least two things going for them. According to people in the know bookings in and out of Iceland have been surprisingly healthy after the country announced its reopening. Secondly, as the Play people themselves have said, you are probably never getting as good lease rates on equipment as you can right now. I read an article the other day where they stated that they are paying the lessors by hours flown which should reduce the risk quite a bit.

It seems to me that the people in charge of Play have learned from Wow's mistakes. If they hold their cards right I can see them beating the competition from FI because even though Icelandair is desperately trying to reduce operating costs they are probably still too high. I expect Play's operating costs to be quite a bit lower and I know that this is the bet they themselves are making.


In some ways starting an airline right now is perfect. All the existing players are strapped for cash meaning they can’t fight back as ferociously along with the amount of glut the aircraft market has you have really good buying power on the second hand market. Things are risky, but when isn’t the airline industry risky? Add in the fact airports want more flights they’d probably work with entrants to get more traffic through.
 
airsmiles
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:14 pm

Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:53 am

Yawn. Another low-fare start up who wants to lose some investors money. How many times do these ventures have to start and fail before people learn. After five decades of watching these startups undermine the whole airline industry, I’ve lost my patience. If you want to know why there’s a race to the bottom for employee benefits and conditions, not to mention onboard passenger service, then look here.
 
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stl07
Posts: 2897
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:25 am

airsmiles wrote:
Yawn. Another low-fare start up who wants to lose some investors money. How many times do these ventures have to start and fail before people learn. After five decades of watching these startups undermine the whole airline industry, I’ve lost my patience. If you want to know why there’s a race to the bottom for employee benefits and conditions, not to mention onboard passenger service, then look here.

Are they silly? Yes. But, I'm not complaining. When I can go directly from St. Louis to Keflavik freaking Iceland for 80 USD, I could care less about the fact that investors are loosing money
 
dc855
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:41 am

Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:05 am

A380MSN004 wrote:
dc855 wrote:

If the article regarding the lease rate is in english can you post it here. Sounds like an interesting one


I tried to look but I cannot find this exact piece of information online. I however have a strong recollection of seeing this somewhere. Maybe it was in a paper or on the radio or maybe they've even edited the article that I saw it in. Or I might have seen this in a dream. :rotfl: There are however plenty of quotes online about leasing rates being very low right now (unsurprisingly), but since I cannot back this particular point up it up, it is fair to take it with a grain of salt.
 
kyrone
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:56 pm

Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:06 pm

dc855 wrote:
A380MSN004 wrote:
dc855 wrote:

If the article regarding the lease rate is in english can you post it here. Sounds like an interesting one


I tried to look but I cannot find this exact piece of information online. I however have a strong recollection of seeing this somewhere. Maybe it was in a paper or on the radio or maybe they've even edited the article that I saw it in. Or I might have seen this in a dream. :rotfl: There are however plenty of quotes online about leasing rates being very low right now (unsurprisingly), but since I cannot back this particular point up it up, it is fair to take it with a grain of salt.




Is this it:

https://turisti.is/2020/06/new-icelandi ... aking-off/
 
Galwayman
Posts: 1038
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:20 am

Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:42 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
I wonder if Dublin will be the best place to base a future low cost airline built around the A321XLR?

Flights on an A321XLR should be able to reach SFO, if not LAX and Dublin has pre-clearance facility

KEF-SFO/LAX 3,653 nm/3,748 nm
DUB-SFO/LAX 4,430 nm/4,502 nm
DUB-SEA 3,945 nm

It seems like Stansted (STN) is just too far away from California. Oslo is only slightly better.
STN SFO/LAX 4,664 nm/4,744 nm
OSL SFO/LAX 4,515 nm/4,644 nm

Wow did fly to California with widebodies.


Yes Dublin would be the perfect location , low taxes, extra new runway, massive home market , excellent same day aircraft utilisation to all US locations . easy access to all the UK and spectacular self conect options via FR to the rest of the EU. Strong pool of aviation local based staff. No need to use US preclearance - it's an ununecessary distraction from the low cost focus > Theres definitely room for A long haul lcc to undercut IAG.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 1520
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:48 pm

I really can't see EI or FR playing nice with an A321XLR rival that's based in Dublin...
 
airhansa
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:05 pm

Merge WOW, IcelandicAir and Norwegian into one airline. Let SAS expand into Iceland as a full service carrier. Problems solved.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 1520
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:04 pm

airhansa - I'm really not clear as to why you're posting this. If WOWair is to restart (either called WOW or Play) and then be merged into Icelandair, there would be no point in WOW or Play restarting at all - you would end up in the same position as having Icelandair now.
Norwegian as an airline is having significant financial struggles. Icelandair will absolutely not want to take on Norwegian's debts and liabilities. While a private company, Icelandair is a critical piece of infrastructure for Iceland - the Icelandic Govt will not want to see Icelandair potentially disappear into smoke as part of the financial mess that is Norwegian
SAS a few years ago came within hours of financial collapse. They are not going to be opening year-round scheduled routes which do not touch their core markets of Denmark/Norway/Sweden for a long time.
 
airsmiles
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:14 pm

Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:38 pm

stl07 wrote:
airsmiles wrote:
Yawn. Another low-fare start up who wants to lose some investors money. How many times do these ventures have to start and fail before people learn. After five decades of watching these startups undermine the whole airline industry, I’ve lost my patience. If you want to know why there’s a race to the bottom for employee benefits and conditions, not to mention onboard passenger service, then look here.

Are they silly? Yes. But, I'm not complaining. When I can go directly from St. Louis to Keflavik freaking Iceland for 80 USD, I could care less about the fact that investors are loosing money


It’s not just investors though. Do you really think fares that low aren’t harming otherwise sustainable airlines and all of there employees. So a start-up charges loss making fares and existing airlines will be forced to respond in some form or another. Further job losses and cost-cutting will be the result. These “disruptor” airlines like Play and Norwegian just undermine the wider industry and people’s livelihoods.
 
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klm617
Posts: 5467
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: WOW Air to relaunch as PLAY

Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:04 pm

airsmiles wrote:
Yawn. Another low-fare start up who wants to lose some investors money. How many times do these ventures have to start and fail before people learn. After five decades of watching these startups undermine the whole airline industry, I’ve lost my patience. If you want to know why there’s a race to the bottom for employee benefits and conditions, not to mention onboard passenger service, then look here.


Low fare carriers are not the enemy greedy investors and bad management are the ones who undermine the airline industry. Low fare carriers were not around when Eastern, TWA, Pan Am and all these mergers to place to eliminate competition so the airlines could leverage themselves into a place of power to force the customer to do what ever and pay whatever they wanted them to do. I champion airlines like WOW Air and the like that at least give people choice as far as pricing goes.

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