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phllax
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:53 am

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 6:10 pm

tu154 wrote:
FLL base doesn’t really care about London. Northeast can have it. We care about our lost west coast flying and the future erosion of our bases flying to Mint. We should not have to commute to fly our west coast departures or any future FLL departures we lose to Mint. We all agree the OBL should be an applied for and interviewed position, but ALL flight attendants should be trained in Mint.


Are the PBI and MIA Mint flights crewed by FLL or JFK and LAX? You would think they'd create some sort of co-terminal base for them.
 
BlueBaller
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:07 pm

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 6:31 pm

phllax wrote:
tu154 wrote:
FLL base doesn’t really care about London. Northeast can have it. We care about our lost west coast flying and the future erosion of our bases flying to Mint. We should not have to commute to fly our west coast departures or any future FLL departures we lose to Mint. We all agree the OBL should be an applied for and interviewed position, but ALL flight attendants should be trained in Mint.


Are the PBI and MIA Mint flights crewed by FLL or JFK and LAX? You would think they'd create some sort of co-terminal base for them.


The Inflight are crewed by JFK/BOS MINT-trained Flight Attendants. Their pairings are routed through those Blue cities/domiciles and they operate a select few number of flights which require the specialized training from the Onboard leadership program. The Core cabin is crewed by non-trained Mint Inflight.
Last edited by BlueBaller on Thu May 20, 2021 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
tu154
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:37 am

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 6:34 pm

phllax wrote:
tu154 wrote:
FLL base doesn’t really care about London. Northeast can have it. We care about our lost west coast flying and the future erosion of our bases flying to Mint. We should not have to commute to fly our west coast departures or any future FLL departures we lose to Mint. We all agree the OBL should be an applied for and interviewed position, but ALL flight attendants should be trained in Mint.


Are the PBI and MIA Mint flights crewed by FLL or JFK and LAX? You would think they'd create some sort of co-terminal base for them.


ALL Mint flights are staffed with either BOS or JFK based Mint crews only. FLL, MCO and LAX based crews are not permitted to operate Mint flights, in either cabin, unless of course the company finds itself short of Mint qualified crews.
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
 
BlueBaller
Posts: 132
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 6:39 pm

tu154 wrote:
BlueBaller wrote:
tu154 wrote:


Other bases want to be there too. Open the opportunity to all bases, eliminate the need to commute for premium class/west coast flying.


It won’t happen. It’s how the company keeps its cost structure in check. The same cost structure that, frankly, (along with government assistance) allowed JetBlue to enter into a 100 year pandemic with the war chest that it did, grow strategically and offensively throughout, TAKE AIRCRAFT DELIVERIES, not even entertain the idea of furlough, and maintain its word to begin London service on schedule.

LATAM flying only goes to the pilots who are special qualified for South of the border terrain and emergency procedures.

The European flying will only be served by northeast-based crews. Crewmember A has the option of bidding to JFK or BOS to work a London trip, just as Crewmember B has the option to bid FLL to fly to Quito.




FLL base doesn’t really care about London. Northeast can have it. We care about our lost west coast flying and the future erosion of our bases flying to Mint. We should not have to commute to fly our west coast departures or any future FLL departures we lose to Mint. We all agree the OBL should be an applied for and interviewed position, but ALL flight attendants should be trained in Mint.


That’s the nature of (show)business. There’s ebbs and flows. The entire 190 Flight Operations department will begin to experience the same erosion you’re referring to while the airplanes get parked and crews will be forced to bid into new equipment to maintain a similar semblance of QOL.
 
n9801f
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:29 am

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 6:41 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
Boiler905 wrote:

As long as B6 can retain the slots, I believe they will succeed in profitably existing on NYC-LON given B6's superior premium cabin product.

Furthermore, it's not like BA has a oneworld advantage given the AA/B6 partnership that now exists and those same miles can be earned on B6.

VS/DL will be the main competitor/threat.

Purely my opinion though

The AA/B6 partnership excludes flights to LHR as far as I’m aware. In regards to service, I do believe they have a great product in Mint and have promised to undercut on pricing. While I do believe that will definitely attract people, I’m not really clear on the strategy. Why have the best product if you’re not going to be able to extract a revenue premium from it. Unless they believe that by doing that, it will force BA, AA, DL et. al to come down to their pricing levels and lower. If the legacies are able to offer a less premium product while simultaneously being able to charge higher fares, I don’t think they have much to worry about in the way of B6.


You've just summarized really well the fundamental problem with JetBlue's business model, which is otherwise quite good.

I disagree - there's a clear role for jetBlue here.

The business model I see is for jetBlue to be an LCC-type provider of business class seats.

JetBlue's price advantage offsets their network weakness vis-à-vis BA/DL et al in attracting business class passengers at low frequency levels.

Once jetBlue is big enough the others will match its front cabin fares widely.

This endgame will be painful for high-cost BA/AA/VS/DL yet viable for lower cost jetBlue.

Good on jetBlue for innovating and adding vigorous new competition to a stodgy, clubby market! Good for the good-ole'-boys to feel some competition.
 
tu154
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:37 am

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 6:58 pm

tphuang wrote:
tu154 wrote:
BlueBaller wrote:

It won’t happen. It’s how the company keeps its cost structure in check. The same cost structure that, frankly, (along with government assistance) allowed JetBlue to enter into a 100 year pandemic with the war chest that it did, grow strategically and offensively throughout, TAKE AIRCRAFT DELIVERIES, not even entertain the idea of furlough, and maintain its word to begin London service on schedule.

LATAM flying only goes to the pilots who are special qualified for South of the border terrain and emergency procedures.

The European flying will only be served by northeast-based crews. Crewmember A has the option of bidding to JFK or BOS to work a London trip, just as Crewmember B has the option to bid FLL to fly to Quito.


FLL base doesn’t really care about London. Northeast can have it. We care about our lost west coast flying and the future erosion of our bases flying to Mint. We should not have to commute to fly our west coast departures or any future FLL departures we lose to Mint. We all agree the OBL should be an applied for and interviewed position, but ALL flight attendants should be trained in Mint.


I'm a little confused by this. Doesn't FLL FAs also have the option to be trained in mint? Is there anything to support the argument that FLL base is shrinking in size or losing flying opportunities?


The only option FLL based crews have when it comes to Mint flying is to apply to the Mint program and if accepted, relocate to NY or BOS, or commute. The only bases operating Mint flights are JFK and BOS, and even those bases are completely separate for Mint flying. So a base within a base so to speak. So our west coast departures out of FLL are staffed solely with JFK or BOS based crews, both cabins.
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 7:12 pm

tu154 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
tu154 wrote:

FLL base doesn’t really care about London. Northeast can have it. We care about our lost west coast flying and the future erosion of our bases flying to Mint. We should not have to commute to fly our west coast departures or any future FLL departures we lose to Mint. We all agree the OBL should be an applied for and interviewed position, but ALL flight attendants should be trained in Mint.


I'm a little confused by this. Doesn't FLL FAs also have the option to be trained in mint? Is there anything to support the argument that FLL base is shrinking in size or losing flying opportunities?


The only option FLL based crews have when it comes to Mint flying is to apply to the Mint program and if accepted, relocate to NY or BOS, or commute. The only bases operating Mint flights are JFK and BOS, and even those bases are completely separate for Mint flying. So a base within a base so to speak. So our west coast departures out of FLL are staffed solely with JFK or BOS based crews, both cabins.


But that's very limited part of flying out of FLL. I'm sure when they are expanding further into South America with LR/XLR, they will adding mint crew out of FLL also. B6 is slowly transitioning from a LCC to a higher valued carrier. It's really going to take time to do this without adding a lot of extra cost.
 
tu154
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 7:21 pm

tphuang wrote:
tu154 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I'm a little confused by this. Doesn't FLL FAs also have the option to be trained in mint? Is there anything to support the argument that FLL base is shrinking in size or losing flying opportunities?


The only option FLL based crews have when it comes to Mint flying is to apply to the Mint program and if accepted, relocate to NY or BOS, or commute. The only bases operating Mint flights are JFK and BOS, and even those bases are completely separate for Mint flying. So a base within a base so to speak. So our west coast departures out of FLL are staffed solely with JFK or BOS based crews, both cabins.


But that's very limited part of flying out of FLL. I'm sure when they are expanding further into South America with LR/XLR, they will adding mint crew out of FLL also. B6 is slowly transitioning from a LCC to a higher valued carrier. It's really going to take time to do this without adding a lot of extra cost.[/quot

Limited, yes. But also very senior.
We can only hope a Mint base is in the not so distant future out of FLL.
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
 
Ziyulu
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 8:41 pm

How likely will they have to refuel on the way back with this aircraft?
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 8:41 pm

They are getting rid of the MINT RIG by the end of June I believe. By that I mean the people doing MINT get paid 8 hours each duty period, even when most of the duty periods are less than 8 hours in MINT. That is what kept MINT well staffed with happy campers. Flying to London is going to get old very fast, especially without the better than regular flying pay MINT people are use to. I predict they will have to train everyone for MINT in the future, because there will in no way be enough volunteers to do double the work in front of cabin for next to no extra pay. I know lots of people who have zero desire to work MINT, especially in the back of the trans Atlantic cabins where the FAs will be customizing meals for the entire core cabin , for a mind blowing extra 1$ per hour. lol
 
LH658
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 9:21 pm

Waiting for UA to announce their official schedule for BOS - London service.
 
BlueBaller
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 9:33 pm

tu154 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
tu154 wrote:

The only option FLL based crews have when it comes to Mint flying is to apply to the Mint program and if accepted, relocate to NY or BOS, or commute. The only bases operating Mint flights are JFK and BOS, and even those bases are completely separate for Mint flying. So a base within a base so to speak. So our west coast departures out of FLL are staffed solely with JFK or BOS based crews, both cabins.


But that's very limited part of flying out of FLL. I'm sure when they are expanding further into South America with LR/XLR, they will adding mint crew out of FLL also. B6 is slowly transitioning from a LCC to a higher valued carrier. It's really going to take time to do this without adding a lot of extra cost.[/quot

Limited, yes. But also very senior.
We can only hope a Mint base is in the not so distant future out of FLL.


It sounds like you just realized why the FLL domicile never needed a MINT crew base. It’s the limited MINT flying actually being flown out of South Florida.

We’re talking SFO and LAX. FLL to LAS, SAN and the other Core markets of PHX, SLC, DEN, etc is all operated by 320 or Core 321s. At its peak, SFO had 2 MINT flights per day, LAX had 4 and maybe SEA I can’t remember. As the company grows out South Florida, the need to expand the OBL to FLL will become more obvious. It’s not at the moment.
 
TC957
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 9:44 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
How likely will they have to refuel on the way back with this aircraft?

Rarely Id'say....The A321XLR has around a 9 hr flight duration.
 
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TheLunchbox
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 10:22 pm

TC957 wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
How likely will they have to refuel on the way back with this aircraft?

Rarely Id'say....The A321XLR has around a 9 hr flight duration.


They don't have XLR yet.
 
flight152
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 10:48 pm

TC957 wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
How likely will they have to refuel on the way back with this aircraft?

Rarely Id'say....The A321XLR has around a 9 hr flight duration.

XLR won’t be around for another 3 or so years.
 
tu154
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 10:56 pm

BlueBaller wrote:
tu154 wrote:
tphuang wrote:


But that's very limited part of flying out of FLL. I'm sure when they are expanding further into South America with LR/XLR, they will adding mint crew out of FLL also. B6 is slowly transitioning from a LCC to a higher valued carrier. It's really going to take time to do this without adding a lot of extra cost.[/quot

Limited, yes. But also very senior.
We can only hope a Mint base is in the not so distant future out of FLL.


It sounds like you just realized why the FLL domicile never needed a MINT crew base. It’s the limited MINT flying actually being flown out of South Florida.

We’re talking SFO and LAX. FLL to LAS, SAN and the other Core markets of PHX, SLC, DEN, etc is all operated by 320 or Core 321s. At its peak, SFO had 2 MINT flights per day, LAX had 4 and maybe SEA I can’t remember. As the company grows out South Florida, the need to expand the OBL to FLL will become more obvious. It’s not at the moment.[/quote


Nah. I still don’t agree with a divided workforce. We’ll just agree to disagree and get this thread back in track.
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
 
Trk1
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 11:23 pm

Much todo about a nothing special airline
 
vedatil4
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Thu May 20, 2021 11:54 pm

The real fun will be when an ULCC carrier like Spirit or Ryanair flies TATL. I can't wait for the youtube videos of in-flight or airline terminal scuffles. Some people shouldn't fly to the other side of the pond.

JetBlue isn't a legacy carrier but seems to be offering a quality service.
 
catiii
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 2:12 am

tu154 wrote:
catiii wrote:
BlueBaller wrote:

It’s no different than when domestic Mint began in 2014. Inflight crewmembers interviewed for the onboard lead program and, if selected, get awarded trips that work the front end of the aircraft. The Core cabin is worked by standard JetBlue inflight crew... Domestic Mint and INTL Mint. You’re making it sound elitist. It’s not like every JetBlue flight attendant wants to bid and work these trips. The same is true regarding the pilots.


It’s also why the service is so good (usually) in Mint. They want to be there.



Other bases want to be there too. Open the opportunity to all bases, eliminate the need to commute for premium class/west coast flying.


So apply for it...
 
catiii
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 2:18 am

Ziyulu wrote:
How likely will they have to refuel on the way back with this aircraft?


Why does everyone act like a westbound TATL 321LR is such a novel thing?
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 4:12 am

Trk1 wrote:
Much todo about a nothing special airline

Todo or ado? Anyway, I’ll take their coach food service, legroom, and free WiFi over just about anyone else’s across the Atlantic. Ditto for mint.
 
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TheLunchbox
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 5:02 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
Trk1 wrote:
Much todo about a nothing special airline

Todo or ado? Anyway, I’ll take their coach food service, legroom, and free WiFi over just about anyone else’s across the Atlantic. Ditto for mint.


Trk1 only gets jazzed up about "The Big Seat" on Spirit. Don't engage that troll.
 
ba319-131
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 6:08 am

In terms of slots post March 2022, should not be an issue, Heathrow’s forecasts up to 2025 don’t have traffic numbers anywhere near 2019
111 732 733 734 735 736 73G 738 739,7M8 BBJ 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 764 772 77L 773 77W L15 D10 D30 D40 AB3 AB6 312 313 318 319 320 20N 321 21N 332 333 342 343 345 346 359 351 388 CS1 CS3 I86 154 SSJ CRJ CR7 CR9 CRK 145 170 175 220
 
jomur
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 9:24 am

ba319-131 wrote:
In terms of slots post March 2022, should not be an issue, Heathrow’s forecasts up to 2025 don’t have traffic numbers anywhere near 2019


But only if current holders can not use them themselves or rent them out. If slots are still that easy to get then BA could shift its entire flying from LGW to LHR and with Easyjet want a shot I'm still not sure if slots would be that easy or cheap for Jetblue to get hold of permanently. If the use them or lose them rule does not come back into play then they could just get a temporary extension.
 
airbazar
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 11:51 am

ba319-131 wrote:
In terms of slots post March 2022, should not be an issue, Heathrow’s forecasts up to 2025 don’t have traffic numbers anywhere near 2019

There is no direct correlation between slots and passenger numbers. LHR has been slot restricted for years and yet passenger number kept going up because airlines were using bigger planes. Now if there's less demand they'll use smaller planes but a smaller plane still needs a slot pair. The only way slots will become available is if the airline stops flying. It's not out of the realm of possibility that some airlines will cut down on LHR routes or never recover and go out of business completely.
 
ba319-131
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 12:16 pm

airbazar wrote:
ba319-131 wrote:
In terms of slots post March 2022, should not be an issue, Heathrow’s forecasts up to 2025 don’t have traffic numbers anywhere near 2019

There is no direct correlation between slots and passenger numbers. LHR has been slot restricted for years and yet passenger number kept going up because airlines were using bigger planes. Now if there's less demand they'll use smaller planes but a smaller plane still needs a slot pair. The only way slots will become available is if the airline stops flying. It's not out of the realm of possibility that some airlines will cut down on LHR routes or never recover and go out of business completely.


- re the slots, exactly, that’s why I don’t think they will have a problem post March.
111 732 733 734 735 736 73G 738 739,7M8 BBJ 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 764 772 77L 773 77W L15 D10 D30 D40 AB3 AB6 312 313 318 319 320 20N 321 21N 332 333 342 343 345 346 359 351 388 CS1 CS3 I86 154 SSJ CRJ CR7 CR9 CRK 145 170 175 220
 
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Chasensfo
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 1:07 pm

Wow, very surprised to see them serving both! Best of luck, their MINT product is up there with the biz products of some of the competitors IMO.
 
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mooseofspruce
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 2:56 pm

catiii wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
How likely will they have to refuel on the way back with this aircraft?


Why does everyone act like a westbound TATL 321LR is such a novel thing?

Primera used denser A321neos that weren't LRs for a network of nonstop TATL flights between STN/CDG and EWR/BOS/IAD/YYZ. It was only for one summer so that's probably why no one remembers, though granted they never made it to winter to perform these flights.

For comparison, JetBlue's A321LRs are so premium-heavy to the point the passenger capacity is comparable to that of their A220s.

But even aside from them, EI, TP, and TS to name a few have also been sending A321LRs on TATL runs. Normally I'd say "it'll just take time" but there were also DY 7M8s between SWF/PVD/BDL/YHM and EDI/SNN/ORK/BGO/BFS/DUB.

So who knows why really.
I saw a flock of Moosen! Many much moosen! Out in the woods, in the wood-es, in the woodsen!
 
jetwet1
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 4:15 pm

A quick look at random prices showed that VS/DL and BA/AA have reacted quickly to B6.

VS/DL $1960
B6 $2200
BA/AA $2400

Also of course B6 has no lounge.

So the big boys aren't giving up the routes easily, but with that said, I don't see B6 having any issues filling the Mint cabin on every flight.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 4:45 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
A quick look at random prices showed that VS/DL and BA/AA have reacted quickly to B6.

VS/DL $1960
B6 $2200
BA/AA $2400

Also of course B6 has no lounge.

So the big boys aren't giving up the routes easily, but with that said, I don't see B6 having any issues filling the Mint cabin on every flight.


The biggest change in J pricing is the Close-in pricing. Pre-pandemic, the fares on there was outrageous compared to what you see on transcon market. I think big drops in that pricing will be what really ends up hurting legacy airlines here. A 15% drop in yield long term on a route like JFK-LHR will be catastrophic for an airline like VS.

not announced yet, but that doesn't mean it won't have lounge
https://liveandletsfly.com/jetblue-lounges/

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-l ... h-details/
"One thing conspicuously absent from JetBlue’s announcement: any information about lounge access for business-class passengers.At the moment, there is no lounge access available. But there may be something in place by the time the flights actually launch.

“We’re working through the details right now,” Laurence told TPG. “While we don’t have anything to announce with this, I will tell you that it’s our intention to make sure that we’re competitive across the board.”

“We’re finalizing it as we speak,” he said."

I'd be very surprised long term if they don't have lounge option at JFK.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 7:31 pm

Back then when UA and DL operated the 757s, they had to stop along the way to refuel. How less likely is it on a 321 to make the trip without refueling in the winter?
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 7:41 pm

tu154 wrote:
BlueBaller wrote:
tu154 wrote:


Other bases want to be there too. Open the opportunity to all bases, eliminate the need to commute for premium class/west coast flying.


It won’t happen. It’s how the company keeps its cost structure in check. The same cost structure that, frankly, (along with government assistance) allowed JetBlue to enter into a 100 year pandemic with the war chest that it did, grow strategically and offensively throughout, TAKE AIRCRAFT DELIVERIES, not even entertain the idea of furlough, and maintain its word to begin London service on schedule.

LATAM flying only goes to the pilots who are special qualified for South of the border terrain and emergency procedures.

The European flying will only be served by northeast-based crews. Crewmember A has the option of bidding to JFK or BOS to work a London trip, just as Crewmember B has the option to bid FLL to fly to Quito.




FLL base doesn’t really care about London. Northeast can have it. We care about our lost west coast flying and the future erosion of our bases flying to Mint. We should not have to commute to fly our west coast departures or any future FLL departures we lose to Mint. We all agree the OBL should be an applied for and interviewed position, but ALL flight attendants should be trained in Mint.



You work for a small airline (relative to other US carriers) With a small subset of planes that has a very exclusive service.

Why should they train thousands of flight attendants to work the specialized service? Because you like flying to San Diego?

frankly, not everyone is meant to work in a high-end, heavy customer service environment. If they want to keep it special they take people that want to commit to it...to keep it special. Serving Lady Gaga JFK to LAX is much different than the PBI Popcorner shuttle or a midnight horror show to the DR.
 
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RWA380
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 7:47 pm

BlueBaller wrote:
I've never met anyone who loves arriving at 5am (mid-night east coast time), or 7am for that matter. 10am is really good and with such a late departure MINT passengers may actually use the flat bed for what it was intended. You're in the office or hotel by noon.
As for the return, I really don't understand why so many people are so hung up on connections. You don't think they can fill up an A321 solely with O&D passengers? You get to spend a full day in London, fly to the U.S., then go home/hotel in NY. What's wrong with that? It sure beats a mid day departure from LHR and wasting the entire day traveling.


Facts. Too many of these posters are hung up on the “poorly timed slots for connectors” argument. JetBlue isn’t a legacy airline. They don’t have traditional hubs where 5 million frequent flier passengers a month funnel through, never to actually step foot in the city in which they land.

Between LGW and LHR they have the “impossible” task of enplaning a few hundred passengers a day from New York City, USA. I don’t see the problem.


It was far better for B6 to enter LHR with no real big connecting opportunities than to use an alternate airport. Now they have their foot in, they can work to find more space to utilize. LGW was expected & won't disappoint.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
BlueBaller
Posts: 132
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 7:59 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Back then when UA and DL operated the 757s, they had to stop along the way to refuel. How less likely is it on a 321 to make the trip without refueling in the winter?


A. Tech stops for gas were few and far between, and only when strong winds aloft cut short the 75’s endurance.
B. The whole point of the 321(X)LR is to offer 757-like capacity with lower seat-mile costs due to the efficiency of a nearly 4 decade newer NEO engine. The similarities between the 757/321N basically ends with their outward appearance. The LR burns at least 1000 lbs/hr less fuel than the 757 at nearly equivalent the economy cruise speed.
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 499
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 8:13 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Back then when UA and DL operated the 757s, they had to stop along the way to refuel. How less likely is it on a 321 to make the trip without refueling in the winter?

https://epsilonaviation.wordpress.com/2 ... 321xlr-do/

I would guess with B6’s low density configuration it won’t have many problems making it. Westbound, full, winter, with bad weather and alternates further away than say EWR? Maybe? Guess we will see 6-9 months from now.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5158
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 8:21 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Back then when UA and DL operated the 757s, they had to stop along the way to refuel. How less likely is it on a 321 to make the trip without refueling in the winter?


1.no they really didnt. It was a very rare occurrence when there was unusual headwinds only. Very rare
2. United operated them to much further cities then london.

Range will not be an issue for B6.

Jetblue is gonna be very popular right when they start. Jetblue has a great reputation and leisure passengers want to fly them. Business travel isnt coming back for a long long time. The legacies are the ones in a bad spot
 
User avatar
hotelbravo
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:56 am

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 8:39 pm

Does JetBlue have reasonably priced one-ways and trips without a Saturday night stay? Would be a differentiator from BA…
 
crosscheckyyz
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:50 am

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 10:40 pm

I realize that people now have personal devices and all that but with the DirectTV be operational with the hop over the ocean? Or does B6 have entertainment stored on servers for watching if there's technical issues?
 
RodFarva
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat May 26, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 10:43 pm

crosscheckyyz wrote:
I realize that people now have personal devices and all that but with the DirectTV be operational with the hop over the ocean? Or does B6 have entertainment stored on servers for watching if there's technical issues?

The system that’s on these planes streams TV through the WiFi. They will be able to receive signal the entire way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4934
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Fri May 21, 2021 11:28 pm

spottingpete93 wrote:
I always find it amazing that so many people don't realise that LGW has its own sizeable catchment area that is different from LHR. Kent, Sussex (East and West), parts of Essex and Hampshire and of course the southern suburbs of London will always find LGW more convenient than Heathrow. These services should do just fine at both airports and I see them complementing one another offering the traveller greater flexibility depending upon where their final destination in the UK is.

Fundamentally wrong.
You are conflating LOCAL area with catchment area, given the size of LHR's footprint and dominance it also takes in the whole of the South East and so overlaps the LGW local area completely. JetBlue are flying to London not West Sussex, what that means is that they'll try and hoover up anyone in that London catchment area. This argument is deployed time and time again, most recently with BA LGW-JFK or going back a bit AA's STN-JFK, but at the first mishap they consolidate back to a single point of focus. Delta started off at LHR with similarly poor timings but over time got that fixed and, sadly, dropped LGW. LGW has no competitive advantage over LHR in this market.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10377
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Sat May 22, 2021 1:41 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
A quick look at random prices showed that VS/DL and BA/AA have reacted quickly to B6.

VS/DL $1960
B6 $2200
BA/AA $2400

So the big boys aren't giving up the routes easily, but with that said, I don't see B6 having any issues filling the Mint cabin on every flight.


No one is flying. I would give the Pandemic more credit for those fares than B6's announcement.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Range will not be an issue for B6.


For the most part yes but I think there will be the odd day in Winter where they do need that stop.
I'm basing this off of what I saw with TAP on their LIS-IAD flight in Winter. It's a route that's just ~100nm longer than LHR-JFK but it's more southern so it faces less strong head winds. TP operates an LR with similar number of seats. There were a few refueling stops in the Azores over the winter.

RodFarva wrote:
The system that’s on these planes streams TV through the WiFi. They will be able to receive signal the entire way.

I don't think that is the reason. As I understand it television is protected by regional broadcast rights, whether it's via Satellite or wifi. My guess is B6 will pay for the rights to broadcast TV on these flights if indeed they plan to continue to offer live TV.
 
RodFarva
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat May 26, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Sat May 22, 2021 4:41 pm

airbazar wrote:
RodFarva wrote:
The system that’s on these planes streams TV through the WiFi. They will be able to receive signal the entire way.

I don't think that is the reason. As I understand it television is protected by regional broadcast rights, whether it's via Satellite or wifi. My guess is B6 will pay for the rights to broadcast TV on these flights if indeed they plan to continue to offer live TV.



I think you're getting more into the technical aspects of their agreements with whoever is going provide the broadcasting. The original question was whether or not they were using the DirecTV for this and the answer is no. They will be streaming the content through the same equipment that provides the wifi. Whether they have to pay to provide certain channels or not is something different. They will be offering NBA League Pass for free on international flights only I did read the other day.
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 499
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Sat May 22, 2021 4:58 pm

crosscheckyyz wrote:
I realize that people now have personal devices and all that but with the DirectTV be operational with the hop over the ocean? Or does B6 have entertainment stored on servers for watching if there's technical issues?

As of now they are advertising broadcasting live the following channels:
CNN International, BBC, CNBC, Sky News and Sport24 https://www.jetblue.com/flying-with-us/ ... long-range

I have read, as mentioned above, international broadcasting rights/restrictions are the reason for so few live channels on these flights, but I don’t have a good source for that.
 
shamrock137
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:10 am

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Sat May 22, 2021 5:39 pm

JoseSalazar wrote:
crosscheckyyz wrote:
I realize that people now have personal devices and all that but with the DirectTV be operational with the hop over the ocean? Or does B6 have entertainment stored on servers for watching if there's technical issues?

As of now they are advertising broadcasting live the following channels:
CNN International, BBC, CNBC, Sky News and Sport24 https://www.jetblue.com/flying-with-us/ ... long-range

I have read, as mentioned above, international broadcasting rights/restrictions are the reason for so few live channels on these flights, but I don’t have a good source for that.


Yeah, the idea of the DirectTV was innovative, but its really not the future. If you fly anywhere other then the lower 48, it doesnt work. Flights to SJU, the Caribbean, Central and South America are all out of coverage. It looks like B6 realizes that though. Their nre planes, and the ones that are going in for the cabin makeover are coming back with a system that has way more VOD content, and WiFi. Look at all the larger intl carriers, Satellite internet and a robust VOD library is the way to go for long-haul intl flying, which B6 is installing now.
Time to spare? Go by air!
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 1130
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Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Sat May 22, 2021 5:57 pm

Will they be serving meals on these flights?
 
tphuang
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Sat May 22, 2021 6:01 pm

shamrock137 wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
crosscheckyyz wrote:
I realize that people now have personal devices and all that but with the DirectTV be operational with the hop over the ocean? Or does B6 have entertainment stored on servers for watching if there's technical issues?

As of now they are advertising broadcasting live the following channels:
CNN International, BBC, CNBC, Sky News and Sport24 https://www.jetblue.com/flying-with-us/ ... long-range

I have read, as mentioned above, international broadcasting rights/restrictions are the reason for so few live channels on these flights, but I don’t have a good source for that.


Yeah, the idea of the DirectTV was innovative, but its really not the future. If you fly anywhere other then the lower 48, it doesnt work. Flights to SJU, the Caribbean, Central and South America are all out of coverage. It looks like B6 realizes that though. Their nre planes, and the ones that are going in for the cabin makeover are coming back with a system that has way more VOD content, and WiFi. Look at all the larger intl carriers, Satellite internet and a robust VOD library is the way to go for long-haul intl flying, which B6 is installing now.


Right the solution that worked 20 years ago when JetBlue was just in its infancy doesn't really work now. As we get into next year, the only aircraft that don't have the next system will be the E90s (which only do domestic sectors), 20 Phase 1 A320s and the A321CEO. It seems like at some point, they are going to have to move their entire fleet into the new system. The phase 1 A320s and E90s probably don't have that many years left in service. My guess is that A321CEO will have to get refurbished to the new system at some point, even if they don't do any international legs.

It just doesn't make sense to maintain that many IFE across your fleet as a LCC. Although at this point, JetBlue's fleet is getting more and more complex.

airbazar wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Range will not be an issue for B6.


For the most part yes but I think there will be the odd day in Winter where they do need that stop.
I'm basing this off of what I saw with TAP on their LIS-IAD flight in Winter. It's a route that's just ~100nm longer than LHR-JFK but it's more southern so it faces less strong head winds. TP operates an LR with similar number of seats. There were a few refueling stops in the Azores over the winter.

I don't think it's a problem if they have the occasional fuel stops. They have a real problem with A320s doing long transcon sectors in winter time. They definitely cannot afford to have their flagship product making fuel stops on like 20 to 25% of west bound trips over a 2 month period.

skipness1E wrote:
spottingpete93 wrote:
I always find it amazing that so many people don't realise that LGW has its own sizeable catchment area that is different from LHR. Kent, Sussex (East and West), parts of Essex and Hampshire and of course the southern suburbs of London will always find LGW more convenient than Heathrow. These services should do just fine at both airports and I see them complementing one another offering the traveller greater flexibility depending upon where their final destination in the UK is.

Fundamentally wrong.
You are conflating LOCAL area with catchment area, given the size of LHR's footprint and dominance it also takes in the whole of the South East and so overlaps the LGW local area completely. JetBlue are flying to London not West Sussex, what that means is that they'll try and hoover up anyone in that London catchment area. This argument is deployed time and time again, most recently with BA LGW-JFK or going back a bit AA's STN-JFK, but at the first mishap they consolidate back to a single point of focus. Delta started off at LHR with similarly poor timings but over time got that fixed and, sadly, dropped LGW. LGW has no competitive advantage over LHR in this market.


Yet, there are clearly a lot of people that prefer LGW over LHR. DY actually did really well on JFK-LGW and was up to 4x at one point and added more premium seat. They said they were able to capture business passengers. BA operated 2x on JFK-LGW pre-pandemic. B6 will not have any competition on JFK-LGW for a while. That's a huge plus.
 
BlueBaller
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:07 pm

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Sat May 22, 2021 6:17 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Will they be serving meals on these flights?


A lot of your questions have been asked and answered both on this forum and by JetBlue press releases. Feel free to indulge in some independent research. Your inquiries are giving off big troll energy.
 
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oxonrow
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:04 am

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Sat May 22, 2021 7:04 pm

Given the narrow body metal, no lounge access, and difficulties growing at LHR, wouldn't LCY be the airport to target for B6?

On a separate note, it seems to me that competitive one-way/single pricing would be one way to address anti-competitive responses from the legacy carriers. Just walked off VS from JFK to LHR this morning, and while the A350 is a nice plane to travel, the quality of service (especially soft product) is far below expectations these days.
 
catiii
Posts: 3886
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Sat May 22, 2021 7:47 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
tu154 wrote:
BlueBaller wrote:

It won’t happen. It’s how the company keeps its cost structure in check. The same cost structure that, frankly, (along with government assistance) allowed JetBlue to enter into a 100 year pandemic with the war chest that it did, grow strategically and offensively throughout, TAKE AIRCRAFT DELIVERIES, not even entertain the idea of furlough, and maintain its word to begin London service on schedule.

LATAM flying only goes to the pilots who are special qualified for South of the border terrain and emergency procedures.

The European flying will only be served by northeast-based crews. Crewmember A has the option of bidding to JFK or BOS to work a London trip, just as Crewmember B has the option to bid FLL to fly to Quito.




FLL base doesn’t really care about London. Northeast can have it. We care about our lost west coast flying and the future erosion of our bases flying to Mint. We should not have to commute to fly our west coast departures or any future FLL departures we lose to Mint. We all agree the OBL should be an applied for and interviewed position, but ALL flight attendants should be trained in Mint.



You work for a small airline (relative to other US carriers) With a small subset of planes that has a very exclusive service.

Why should they train thousands of flight attendants to work the specialized service? Because you like flying to San Diego?

frankly, not everyone is meant to work in a high-end, heavy customer service environment. If they want to keep it special they take people that want to commit to it...to keep it special. Serving Lady Gaga JFK to LAX is much different than the PBI Popcorner shuttle or a midnight horror show to the DR.


Also, Im pretty sure he/she doesnt speak for the entire inflight cadre when he/she says “we all agree...”
 
catiii
Posts: 3886
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: JetBlue Officially Launching LHR/LGW

Sat May 22, 2021 7:49 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Back then when UA and DL operated the 757s, they had to stop along the way to refuel. How less likely is it on a 321 to make the trip without refueling in the winter?


Completely false out of LHR. The 757s that had to make the rare tech stop were coming out of western Europe, not the Isles.

You keep making up falsehoods to support your narrative that the LR will need to make a westbound tech stop to NYC or BOS from London. It will not. Full stop.

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