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STT757
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United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Fri May 21, 2021 9:18 pm

They will start with 10 gates, expanding to 20. And they will be for mainline, not express.

https://airlineweekly.com/2021/05/united-beats-jetblue-into-newark-airports-new-terminal-a-that-opens-in-2022/
 
PA815
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Fri May 21, 2021 10:54 pm

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I wonder why the discrepancy in the number of gates UA will operate. The article mentions 20 gates by 2023 but separately in the article UA says they will only use 12. Seems like UA would want the full 20.
 
FlyGuy27
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Fri May 21, 2021 11:32 pm

I wonder if PANYNJ “requested” that UA not use for Express (bigger planes = more money).

Perhaps UA will go back to the CO model of select destinations to be operated out of A (I believe it was Boston, Chicago and Atlanta).

It could make sense to have SFO and LAX out of A given generally high O&D flows and quantity of premium seats for the new United Club.
 
ikramerica
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Fri May 21, 2021 11:41 pm

CO would fly to competitor hubs out of A, which hurt customers trying to connect to smaller NE cities and International connections.
 
Deltabravo1123
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Fri May 21, 2021 11:54 pm

I mean, requesting mainline seems reasonable.. Why build a new terminal for a major capacity increase only to park 50-seat RJs? I am surprised about United being the first airline though. I would have expected jetBlue tbh.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 12:05 am

I wonder how long the connection time will be. Will A and C be connected by an airside bus?
 
bpat777
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 12:06 am

I know someone on here will have lots up say about United being the 1st tenant announced.
 
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STT757
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 12:28 am

20 gates for United doesn’t leave much for everyone else.
 
len90
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 1:09 am

I don't see UA really taking 20 of the 33 gates at the new terminal. Can't leave 12 gates for AA, DL, AC, B6.. AC needs 2 maybe 3. DL needs probably 3. B6 is not going to be happy with 3-4 gates in the new terminal. I don't see B6 wanting to operate out of multiple areas like they are right now. B6 plans to do nearly 60 departures a day and you are going to need around 8 gates for that. For UA I could see Florida flying as an option as well as that seems to be mostly leisure O&D traffic. Those routes are pretty much all narrowbody mainline. (however pre pandemic UA was using the domestic 772 and 767 for MCO)

Delta leaving B2 opens up area up for F9 and NK to have space to consolidate their operations into one rotunda.
 
PA815
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 3:21 am

What is the process for determining which airlines get access to the new gates?
 
ikramerica
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 3:35 am

len90 wrote:
I don't see UA really taking 20 of the 33 gates at the new terminal. Can't leave 12 gates for AA, DL, AC, B6.. AC needs 2 maybe 3. DL needs probably 3. B6 is not going to be happy with 3-4 gates in the new terminal. I don't see B6 wanting to operate out of multiple areas like they are right now. B6 plans to do nearly 60 departures a day and you are going to need around 8 gates for that. For UA I could see Florida flying as an option as well as that seems to be mostly leisure O&D traffic. Those routes are pretty much all narrowbody mainline. (however pre pandemic UA was using the domestic 772 and 767 for MCO)

Delta leaving B2 opens up area up for F9 and NK to have space to consolidate their operations into one rotunda.

Could be non-border control leisure destinations and Canada, for sure. SJU, STT, Florida, Canada, Nassau, etc. For the handful of people connecting on those routes, there’s a bus connection.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 6:14 am

STT757 wrote:
20 gates for United doesn’t leave much for everyone else.


12 for United, not 20.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 11:58 am

ikramerica wrote:
CO would fly to competitor hubs out of A, which hurt customers trying to connect to smaller NE cities and International connections.


Basically yes, A was used by CO primarily for ATL, DFW, and a few other markets, and the argument was that these routes carried a lot fewer connections and were more P2P.
 
Flaps
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 12:33 pm

PA815 wrote:
What is the process for determining which airlines get access to the new gates?

1. Money
2. Political clout
3. Money + Political clout
 
MDC862
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 12:43 pm

Flaps wrote:
PA815 wrote:
What is the process for determining which airlines get access to the new gates?

1. Money
2. Political clout
3. Money + Political clout



Ha, ha.
This is Jersey we are talking about.
 
DualQual
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 1:30 pm

FlyGuy27 wrote:
I wonder if PANYNJ “requested” that UA not use for Express (bigger planes = more money).

Perhaps UA will go back to the CO model of select destinations to be operated out of A (I believe it was Boston, Chicago and Atlanta).

It could make sense to have SFO and LAX out of A given generally high O&D flows and quantity of premium seats for the new United Club.


ORD, MDW, DFW, ATL, BOS, DCA, IAD was the A operation at peak. Basically business O&D cities.
 
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STT757
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 1:48 pm

I could see all the West Coast flights in there, SEA, PDX, SFO, SMF, LAX, SNA, SAN etc.. A large dedicated United club.
 
slider
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 2:08 pm

FlyGuy27 wrote:
I wonder if PANYNJ “requested” that UA not use for Express (bigger planes = more money).



I don't think there will be any further tampering regarding United's network and the Port. LOL
 
codc10
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 2:13 pm

United is transitioning out of ERJs at EWR, and the larger RJs will use mainline (ADG III) gates. The plan for T1/new TA was revised in 2019 to eliminate ADG II gates (like current A-2 at EWR mostly is).

This should not be newsworthy to anyone who has been paying attention, and not living in fantasyland.
 
EWRandMDW
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 2:52 pm

As I recall, the new Terminal A will have a base of 33 gates which could be expanded to 39-41 gates. If UA takes 20, then there could be between 19-21 gates available to other carriers after expansion. Either way, will the new T-A have customs and immigration facilities? That's something that had been proposed.
 
Opus99
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 2:57 pm

Any UA widebodies expected here? Preferably transatlantic services or just regional/domestic?
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 3:23 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Any UA widebodies expected here? Preferably transatlantic services or just regional/domestic?


No unfortunately.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 3:24 pm

EWRandMDW wrote:
As I recall, the new Terminal A will have a base of 33 gates which could be expanded to 39-41 gates. If UA takes 20, then there could be between 19-21 gates available to other carriers after expansion. Either way, will the new T-A have customs and immigration facilities? That's something that had been proposed.


No on the FIS space.

No again on the expansion, they’re gonna move forward with terminal 2 instead.

UA is taking 12 gates not 20.
 
ytib
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 3:27 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
EWRandMDW wrote:
UA is taking 12 gates not 20.


Do you have an official source on this?
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 3:30 pm

So in terminal A it seems like it will be AA, AC, B6, DL, and UA. When you add DL into the mix, it shuffles things around quite a bit. Also, there had been no mention of AS whatsoever. Is the eventual plan for AS, NK, and F9 to move into Terminal B where DL’s gates are? This would make the most sense to me. Going forward I see,

Terminal A-
AA-5
AC-2
B6-10
DL-5
UA-12

Terminal B-
AS-2
F9-2
NK-3

And then maybe some B6 in terminal B too?
 
Opus99
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 3:33 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Any UA widebodies expected here? Preferably transatlantic services or just regional/domestic?


No unfortunately.

Sigh. Thanks!
 
tphuang
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 5:36 pm

ytib wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
EWRandMDW wrote:
UA is taking 12 gates not 20.


Do you have an official source on this?

That same article stated ua said they will have 12 gates.

I think the most obvious implication is that jetblue will not have more gates when it moves over to the new terminal 1. It has around 10 right now and is likely going to have that many in the new terminal.
 
codc10
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 6:36 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
EWRandMDW wrote:
As I recall, the new Terminal A will have a base of 33 gates which could be expanded to 39-41 gates. If UA takes 20, then there could be between 19-21 gates available to other carriers after expansion. Either way, will the new T-A have customs and immigration facilities? That's something that had been proposed.


No on the FIS space.

No again on the expansion, they’re gonna move forward with terminal 2 instead.

UA is taking 12 gates not 20.


UA will be preferential on 12 gates but based on schedule, that is not a hard cap. There will be Port common-use gates that UA can negotiate access to in the same way as elsewhere. There will be widebody (ADG IV/V) gates at TA - think AC 787 - but it’s not clear whether those are intended to be UA preferential. My guess is no.

Correct on no FIS.

As far as expansion, there is a phase 2 of Terminal A, but many aspects of the proposed phase 2 were actually brought forward into the facility that will open in 2022 and shortly thereafter. So, there will be additional gates to build out, but not a material number. The Terminal B replacement will indeed take precedence.

UA will be, and always was to be, the largest tenant at the new facility. The notion that the immediate post-COVID schedule(s) of various airlines would create upheaval in gate allocation was never rooted in fact.
 
atlflyer
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 7:49 pm

In 2019, PA added $35 million into the 2017-2026 Capital Plan for replacement of Terminal B. So it seems they would break ground later this decade. And this terminal is expected to be the largest at Newark Airport.
 
jayunited
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sat May 22, 2021 9:12 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
EWRandMDW wrote:
As I recall, the new Terminal A will have a base of 33 gates which could be expanded to 39-41 gates. If UA takes 20, then there could be between 19-21 gates available to other carriers after expansion. Either way, will the new T-A have customs and immigration facilities? That's something that had been proposed.


No on the FIS space.

No again on the expansion, they’re gonna move forward with terminal 2 instead.

UA is taking 12 gates not 20.


In an internal memo that I have seen United states the agreement is by April of 2023 United will operate out of 20 gates in Terminal A. United will launch operations out of Terminal A with 10-12 gates using mainline narrowbodies only including 757s but by April 2023 that number will have grown to 20 gates according to the memo. Not sure if United will run widebodies out of Terminal A once construction is completed.
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sun May 23, 2021 6:26 am

atlflyer wrote:
In 2019, PA added $35 million into the 2017-2026 Capital Plan for replacement of Terminal B. So it seems they would break ground later this decade. And this terminal is expected to be the largest at Newark Airport.


That will be a lot of additional gates at EWR and with no additional runway capacity possible it seems like it might be hard to make use of all the new facilities.
 
tphuang
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sun May 23, 2021 11:55 am

codc10 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
EWRandMDW wrote:
As I recall, the new Terminal A will have a base of 33 gates which could be expanded to 39-41 gates. If UA takes 20, then there could be between 19-21 gates available to other carriers after expansion. Either way, will the new T-A have customs and immigration facilities? That's something that had been proposed.


No on the FIS space.

No again on the expansion, they’re gonna move forward with terminal 2 instead.

UA is taking 12 gates not 20.


UA will be preferential on 12 gates but based on schedule, that is not a hard cap. There will be Port common-use gates that UA can negotiate access to in the same way as elsewhere. There will be widebody (ADG IV/V) gates at TA - think AC 787 - but it’s not clear whether those are intended to be UA preferential. My guess is no.

Correct on no FIS.

As far as expansion, there is a phase 2 of Terminal A, but many aspects of the proposed phase 2 were actually brought forward into the facility that will open in 2022 and shortly thereafter. So, there will be additional gates to build out, but not a material number. The Terminal B replacement will indeed take precedence.

UA will be, and always was to be, the largest tenant at the new facility. The notion that the immediate post-COVID schedule(s) of various airlines would create upheaval in gate allocation was never rooted in fact.


Neither is your belief that other airlines will simply accommodate ua request for more slots and gate access at jfk or that b6 will not knock down t7 in 2023.

Ua give up 4 cute gates in exchange for access into jfk. There is no evidence that it will not get additional access to more than 20 permanent slots and real estate for free.

B6 and ua exchange at two airports could happen again.
 
codc10
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sun May 23, 2021 12:20 pm

tphuang wrote:
codc10 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

No on the FIS space.

No again on the expansion, they’re gonna move forward with terminal 2 instead.

UA is taking 12 gates not 20.


UA will be preferential on 12 gates but based on schedule, that is not a hard cap. There will be Port common-use gates that UA can negotiate access to in the same way as elsewhere. There will be widebody (ADG IV/V) gates at TA - think AC 787 - but it’s not clear whether those are intended to be UA preferential. My guess is no.

Correct on no FIS.

As far as expansion, there is a phase 2 of Terminal A, but many aspects of the proposed phase 2 were actually brought forward into the facility that will open in 2022 and shortly thereafter. So, there will be additional gates to build out, but not a material number. The Terminal B replacement will indeed take precedence.

UA will be, and always was to be, the largest tenant at the new facility. The notion that the immediate post-COVID schedule(s) of various airlines would create upheaval in gate allocation was never rooted in fact.


Neither is your belief that other airlines will simply accommodate ua request for more slots and gate access at jfk or that b6 will not knock down t7 in 2023.

Ua give up 4 cute gates in exchange for access into jfk. There is no evidence that it will not get additional access to more than 20 permanent slots and real estate for free.

B6 and ua exchange at two airports could happen again.


Irrelevant.

We are talking about EWR new TA, not JFK, and this leak is merely confirmation about what’s substantially always been the case.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sun May 23, 2021 6:39 pm

Perhaps we misinterpreted the gate situation? Isn’t it a common use facility? If nothing has changed, United wouldn’t necessarily be “getting” 20 gates but perhaps using 20 out of the 33 of them?

But if I’m wrong, I’m not so sure United needs 20 more gates at EWR unless they are looking for a lawsuit from JetBlue and Spirit.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sun May 23, 2021 6:42 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
atlflyer wrote:
In 2019, PA added $35 million into the 2017-2026 Capital Plan for replacement of Terminal B. So it seems they would break ground later this decade. And this terminal is expected to be the largest at Newark Airport.


That will be a lot of additional gates at EWR and with no additional runway capacity possible it seems like it might be hard to make use of all the new facilities.


Perhaps you aren’t aware of EWRs gate space problem?
 
atlflyer
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sun May 23, 2021 8:10 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Perhaps we misinterpreted the gate situation? Isn’t it a common use facility? If nothing has changed, United wouldn’t necessarily be “getting” 20 gates but perhaps using 20 out of the 33 of them?

But if I’m wrong, I’m not so sure United needs 20 more gates at EWR unless they are looking for a lawsuit from JetBlue and Spirit.


I thought was going to be common use gates as well.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sun May 23, 2021 8:20 pm

I think the old system of a few o&d heavy cities with competitor hubs made the most sense. Since those cities had hubs it was the least people connecting. All the commuter flights being in A that almost everyone was connecting made no sense to me. Almost the entire plane is connecting why make those people have such a long connection and long bus rides.

I think one possibility might be las, phx, lax and sfo flights. They have so many flights to those cities. Lots of o&d and they can have a shiny new club for those flies. Reduce some pressure on the other clubs. The amenities can be molded to those transcon fliers too. Something similar to that might make sense to me.
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Sun May 23, 2021 9:53 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:
atlflyer wrote:
In 2019, PA added $35 million into the 2017-2026 Capital Plan for replacement of Terminal B. So it seems they would break ground later this decade. And this terminal is expected to be the largest at Newark Airport.


That will be a lot of additional gates at EWR and with no additional runway capacity possible it seems like it might be hard to make use of all the new facilities.


Perhaps you aren’t aware of EWRs gate space problem?


I was aware of the EWR runway capacity problem (same with JFK and LGA) but didn't know they were so short on gates that the new Terminal B would need to be even larger than Terminal C. Term C currently has +/- 50 gates and from what I can tell from airport maps, the current Term B has around 30ish. A gain of 20 gates or so is pretty significant for an airport the size of EWR. I guess you can never have too many gates as long as someone can use them and pay for them. Then again, if "largest" is just a square footage number and not number of gates, then the new Term B could be mostly for duty-free and widebody gates.
 
jayunited
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Mon May 24, 2021 12:13 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Perhaps we misinterpreted the gate situation? Isn’t it a common use facility? If nothing has changed, United wouldn’t necessarily be “getting” 20 gates but perhaps using 20 out of the 33 of them?

But if I’m wrong, I’m not so sure United needs 20 more gates at EWR unless they are looking for a lawsuit from JetBlue and Spirit.



No not according to the memo, according to the internal memo United has an agreement not for preferential use but a lease for 20 total gates at Terminal A.

I don't know if UA has agreed to surrender gates at another terminal that wasn't in the memo. However by April 2023, 20 out of the 33 gates at Terminal A will belong to United per the lease. The way I see it is like this with United being the largest carrier at EWR there is no way United was going to let our competitors (combined together) takeover the majority of a brand new terminal at EWR while United gets stuck with just 12 gates. United wants a piece of Terminal A, United wants to move part of our operation into this brand new terminal and we will have 20 gates. What those 20 gates will cost United in terms of space at other terminal (if any) is yet to be seen.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Mon May 24, 2021 12:36 pm

jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Perhaps we misinterpreted the gate situation? Isn’t it a common use facility? If nothing has changed, United wouldn’t necessarily be “getting” 20 gates but perhaps using 20 out of the 33 of them?

But if I’m wrong, I’m not so sure United needs 20 more gates at EWR unless they are looking for a lawsuit from JetBlue and Spirit.



No not according to the memo, according to the internal memo United has an agreement not for preferential use but a lease for 20 total gates at Terminal A.

I don't know if UA has agreed to surrender gates at another terminal that wasn't in the memo. However by April 2023, 20 out of the 33 gates at Terminal A will belong to United per the lease. The way I see it is like this with United being the largest carrier at EWR there is no way United was going to let our competitors (combined together) takeover the majority of a brand new terminal at EWR while United gets stuck with just 12 gates. United wants a piece of Terminal A, United wants to move part of our operation into this brand new terminal and we will have 20 gates. What those 20 gates will cost United in terms of space at other terminal (if any) is yet to be seen.


It’s certainly interesting that you bring up UA giving up space in other terminals. While I don’t know the fine print of the leases and such, I’m sure United would not want to let anyone into terminal C even if it were LH or AC. UA still does use Terminal B for their many international arrivals so I’m not sure they would want to give up space there either. But if UA really were to take 20 gates (the spokesperson for UA said 12), that changes EWR from a 430 departure a day operation to closer to 500. That would easily claw United back into the number one spot in NYC. The bigger question looms though, would NK and B6 let this happen? I’m sure AS is already frustrated too as they got the boot from the new terminal. UA would have to dump some serious capacity into EWR for them to take 20 gates and stick B6 with less then 10 as DL and AA each need a minimum of 5.
 
codc10
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Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Mon May 24, 2021 1:30 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Perhaps we misinterpreted the gate situation? Isn’t it a common use facility? If nothing has changed, United wouldn’t necessarily be “getting” 20 gates but perhaps using 20 out of the 33 of them?

But if I’m wrong, I’m not so sure United needs 20 more gates at EWR unless they are looking for a lawsuit from JetBlue and Spirit.



No not according to the memo, according to the internal memo United has an agreement not for preferential use but a lease for 20 total gates at Terminal A.

I don't know if UA has agreed to surrender gates at another terminal that wasn't in the memo. However by April 2023, 20 out of the 33 gates at Terminal A will belong to United per the lease. The way I see it is like this with United being the largest carrier at EWR there is no way United was going to let our competitors (combined together) takeover the majority of a brand new terminal at EWR while United gets stuck with just 12 gates. United wants a piece of Terminal A, United wants to move part of our operation into this brand new terminal and we will have 20 gates. What those 20 gates will cost United in terms of space at other terminal (if any) is yet to be seen.


It’s certainly interesting that you bring up UA giving up space in other terminals. While I don’t know the fine print of the leases and such, I’m sure United would not want to let anyone into terminal C even if it were LH or AC. UA still does use Terminal B for their many international arrivals so I’m not sure they would want to give up space there either. But if UA really were to take 20 gates (the spokesperson for UA said 12), that changes EWR from a 430 departure a day operation to closer to 500. That would easily claw United back into the number one spot in NYC. The bigger question looms though, would NK and B6 let this happen? I’m sure AS is already frustrated too as they got the boot from the new terminal. UA would have to dump some serious capacity into EWR for them to take 20 gates and stick B6 with less then 10 as DL and AA each need a minimum of 5.


B2/B3 are pure common-use, and FIS gates are preferentially allocated throughout the day based on historical airline schedules. Right now the C FIS is still closed, and probably will be for at least another 6-12 months, so UA’s entire international/non-precleared arrival operation remains at B out of necessity. So, there’s really nothing to give up.

As far as I can tell, United won’t be using 20 gates at new TA on “day one”; instead that’s at a fully built-out state with all options exercised. UA won’t be “exclusive” on all of those gates, either, there will be usage thresholds. I use that term in the contractual sense; UA won’t share preferential gates with other airlines but it won’t be like Terminal C, where the gates are essentially UA property regardless of the size of its operation at EWR... as long as rent payments are made on time.

Pre-COVID, United had 16 parking positions on A2 and 5 hardstands at C-3 in place of a mainline gate, primarily Group II (50-seat RJ) sized for the ExpressJet/CommutAir ERJ portfolio. UA has long planned an upgauge of EWR operations, and has reduced the number of gates at C to accommodate more widebodies and larger RJs. Most recently, the guidance is for an all two-class operation, meaning CRJ-700 (CR5) will eventually be the smallest type in operation under the UA banner. So, between that work and the details of UA’s planned presence at Terminal A (10-20 gates in phased approach) it’s closer to a net-zero number of movements, just at larger gauge/more pax, which is something the PANYNJ encourages.

Between the opening of Terminal A and the Terminal B replacement, we are also likely to see a new western pier on Terminal C with 3-5 swing NB/WB gates and FIS access. This was in the initial planning stages pre-COVID and had not yet been presented to the board.
Last edited by codc10 on Mon May 24, 2021 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
STT757
Topic Author
Posts: 14933
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Mon May 24, 2021 1:30 pm

Once upon a time Continental had various partners in Terminal C, I could see Air Canada going back to Terminal C. They mostly fly ERJ-175s into EWR which can operate from the C-2 concourse, they also had the 787 to YVR.

Airlines that previously flew out of Terminal C:

Air Canada (they bought part of CO in 1993 from Texas Pacific Group)

SAS

Air France

World Airways, 1995/1996 codeshare to Ireland and TLV. World flew their MD-11s from the former two gate stub concourse that sat where C-3 is today.

Alitalia, 1993 onwards, CO had a DC-10 painted half CO livery and the other Alitalia, CO flew EWR-FCO with a DC-10 and AZ EWR-MXP with a 763.

America West (codeshare partners from the early- mid '90s)

 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 2075
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Mon May 24, 2021 1:42 pm

codc10 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
jayunited wrote:


No not according to the memo, according to the internal memo United has an agreement not for preferential use but a lease for 20 total gates at Terminal A.

I don't know if UA has agreed to surrender gates at another terminal that wasn't in the memo. However by April 2023, 20 out of the 33 gates at Terminal A will belong to United per the lease. The way I see it is like this with United being the largest carrier at EWR there is no way United was going to let our competitors (combined together) takeover the majority of a brand new terminal at EWR while United gets stuck with just 12 gates. United wants a piece of Terminal A, United wants to move part of our operation into this brand new terminal and we will have 20 gates. What those 20 gates will cost United in terms of space at other terminal (if any) is yet to be seen.


It’s certainly interesting that you bring up UA giving up space in other terminals. While I don’t know the fine print of the leases and such, I’m sure United would not want to let anyone into terminal C even if it were LH or AC. UA still does use Terminal B for their many international arrivals so I’m not sure they would want to give up space there either. But if UA really were to take 20 gates (the spokesperson for UA said 12), that changes EWR from a 430 departure a day operation to closer to 500. That would easily claw United back into the number one spot in NYC. The bigger question looms though, would NK and B6 let this happen? I’m sure AS is already frustrated too as they got the boot from the new terminal. UA would have to dump some serious capacity into EWR for them to take 20 gates and stick B6 with less then 10 as DL and AA each need a minimum of 5.


B2/B3 are pure common-use, and FIS gates are preferentially allocated throughout the day based on historical airline schedules. Right now the C FIS is still closed, and probably will be for at least another 6-12 months, so UA’s entire international/non-precleared arrival operation remains at B out of necessity. So, there’s really nothing to give up.

As far as I can tell, United won’t be using 20 gates at new TA on “day one”; instead that’s at a fully built-out state with all options exercised. UA won’t be “exclusive” on all of those gates, either, there will be usage thresholds. I use that term in the contractual sense; UA won’t share preferential gates with other airlines but it won’t be like Terminal C, where the gates are essentially UA property regardless of the size of its operation at EWR... as long as rent payments are made on time.

Pre-COVID, United had 16 parking positions on A2 and 5 hardstands at C-3 in place of a mainline gate, primarily Group II (50-seat RJ) sized for the ExpressJet/CommutAir ERJ portfolio. UA has long planned an upgauge of EWR operations, and has reduced the number of gates at C to accommodate more widebodies and larger RJs. Most recently, the guidance is for an all two-class operation, meaning CRJ-700 (CR5) will eventually be the smallest type in operation under the UA banner. So, between that work and the details of UA’s planned presence at Terminal A (10-20 gates in phased approach) it’s closer to a net-zero number of movements, just at larger gauge/more pax, which is something the PANYNJ encourages.

Between the opening of Terminal A and the Terminal B replacement, we are also likely to see a new western pier on Terminal C with 3-5 swing NB/WB gates and FIS access. This was in the initial planning stages pre-COVID and had not yet been presented to the board.


Thank you, that should make the circumstances around A much better. It certainly going to be a busy terminal with being pretty much exclusively mainline for every carrier that flies into there.

Do you have any word on AS, NK, and F9? Also B1 is opening up without delta will this become the new domestic center?
 
codc10
Posts: 3584
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Mon May 24, 2021 6:01 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
codc10 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

It’s certainly interesting that you bring up UA giving up space in other terminals. While I don’t know the fine print of the leases and such, I’m sure United would not want to let anyone into terminal C even if it were LH or AC. UA still does use Terminal B for their many international arrivals so I’m not sure they would want to give up space there either. But if UA really were to take 20 gates (the spokesperson for UA said 12), that changes EWR from a 430 departure a day operation to closer to 500. That would easily claw United back into the number one spot in NYC. The bigger question looms though, would NK and B6 let this happen? I’m sure AS is already frustrated too as they got the boot from the new terminal. UA would have to dump some serious capacity into EWR for them to take 20 gates and stick B6 with less then 10 as DL and AA each need a minimum of 5.


B2/B3 are pure common-use, and FIS gates are preferentially allocated throughout the day based on historical airline schedules. Right now the C FIS is still closed, and probably will be for at least another 6-12 months, so UA’s entire international/non-precleared arrival operation remains at B out of necessity. So, there’s really nothing to give up.

As far as I can tell, United won’t be using 20 gates at new TA on “day one”; instead that’s at a fully built-out state with all options exercised. UA won’t be “exclusive” on all of those gates, either, there will be usage thresholds. I use that term in the contractual sense; UA won’t share preferential gates with other airlines but it won’t be like Terminal C, where the gates are essentially UA property regardless of the size of its operation at EWR... as long as rent payments are made on time.

Pre-COVID, United had 16 parking positions on A2 and 5 hardstands at C-3 in place of a mainline gate, primarily Group II (50-seat RJ) sized for the ExpressJet/CommutAir ERJ portfolio. UA has long planned an upgauge of EWR operations, and has reduced the number of gates at C to accommodate more widebodies and larger RJs. Most recently, the guidance is for an all two-class operation, meaning CRJ-700 (CR5) will eventually be the smallest type in operation under the UA banner. So, between that work and the details of UA’s planned presence at Terminal A (10-20 gates in phased approach) it’s closer to a net-zero number of movements, just at larger gauge/more pax, which is something the PANYNJ encourages.

Between the opening of Terminal A and the Terminal B replacement, we are also likely to see a new western pier on Terminal C with 3-5 swing NB/WB gates and FIS access. This was in the initial planning stages pre-COVID and had not yet been presented to the board.


Thank you, that should make the circumstances around A much better. It certainly going to be a busy terminal with being pretty much exclusively mainline for every carrier that flies into there.

Do you have any word on AS, NK, and F9? Also B1 is opening up without delta will this become the new domestic center?


A Delta-less B1 makes sense for the ULCCs looking for lowest CPE and growth. G4, F9, NK, SY, etc.
 
SoEWR
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:39 am

Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Mon May 24, 2021 10:42 pm

STT757 wrote:
Once upon a time Continental had various partners in Terminal C, I could see Air Canada going back to Terminal C. They mostly fly ERJ-175s into EWR which can operate from the C-2 concourse, they also had the 787 to YVR.

Airlines that previously flew out of Terminal C:

Air Canada (they bought part of CO in 1993 from Texas Pacific Group)

SAS

Air France

World Airways, 1995/1996 codeshare to Ireland and TLV. World flew their MD-11s from the former two gate stub concourse that sat where C-3 is today.

Alitalia, 1993 onwards, CO had a DC-10 painted half CO livery and the other Alitalia, CO flew EWR-FCO with a DC-10 and AZ EWR-MXP with a 763.

America West (codeshare partners from the early- mid '90s)



Star Alliance Under One Roof at Terminal C? Would that be possible? I wonder
 
codc10
Posts: 3584
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Tue May 25, 2021 12:31 am

SoEWR wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Once upon a time Continental had various partners in Terminal C, I could see Air Canada going back to Terminal C. They mostly fly ERJ-175s into EWR which can operate from the C-2 concourse, they also had the 787 to YVR.

Airlines that previously flew out of Terminal C:

Air Canada (they bought part of CO in 1993 from Texas Pacific Group)

SAS

Air France

World Airways, 1995/1996 codeshare to Ireland and TLV. World flew their MD-11s from the former two gate stub concourse that sat where C-3 is today.

Alitalia, 1993 onwards, CO had a DC-10 painted half CO livery and the other Alitalia, CO flew EWR-FCO with a DC-10 and AZ EWR-MXP with a 763.

America West (codeshare partners from the early- mid '90s)



Star Alliance Under One Roof at Terminal C? Would that be possible? I wonder


In my view, minimal advantage. Airside connections to the international departure are available by bus and arriving international (with the exception of AC) requires security screening anyway, so the monorail ride isn’t terribly onerous compared to other hub airports around the world.

More importantly, UA doesn’t ground handle its partners (nor does there seem to be much interest in doing so, for either side) and I doubt UA would want to accommodate separate bag rooms and support facilities at Terminal C for vendors which already exist at B and handle multiple/non-Star airlines. There’s more to the operation than just parking an airplane on a different gate.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 3290
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Wed May 26, 2021 11:09 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
So in terminal A it seems like it will be AA, AC, B6, DL, and UA. When you add DL into the mix, it shuffles things around quite a bit. Also, there had been no mention of AS whatsoever. Is the eventual plan for AS, NK, and F9 to move into Terminal B where DL’s gates are? This would make the most sense to me. Going forward I see,

Terminal A-
AA-5
AC-2
B6-10
DL-5
UA-12

Terminal B-
AS-2
F9-2
NK-3

And then maybe some B6 in terminal B too?


The thing with AC is...assuming “normal” times return, they serve 5 destinations out of EWR. Doing that out of 2 gates would be tough without CUTE gates or gate sharing with UA.
 
len90
Posts: 1178
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:03 pm

Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Mon May 31, 2021 4:41 pm

AC is now mostly mainline on the BCS3 to YYZ with Montreal still showing up a lot as a Jazz mixture.

F9 plans to restart growth at EWR in the next year or so. Their plans are to look at EWR growth after finishing up ATL and TPA. Two gates for them is not going to be enough. Their load factors are decent at EWR and they want to grow.

DL: do they really need 5 gates? ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC is all they operate out of EWR. DL has large operations at LGA and JFK. EWR is a spoke for their hubs. Can easily see them going to 4 gates max.

AA I can see keeping 5 and possibly sharing with B6. Destinations serviced: ORD (mainline/regional), MIA, CLT, PHX, DFW. Not sure I see B6 and AA both flying to MIA out of EWR... Does B6 drop the route?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 2075
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Mon May 31, 2021 5:45 pm

len90 wrote:
AC is now mostly mainline on the BCS3 to YYZ with Montreal still showing up a lot as a Jazz mixture.

F9 plans to restart growth at EWR in the next year or so. Their plans are to look at EWR growth after finishing up ATL and TPA. Two gates for them is not going to be enough. Their load factors are decent at EWR and they want to grow.

DL: do they really need 5 gates? ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC is all they operate out of EWR. DL has large operations at LGA and JFK. EWR is a spoke for their hubs. Can easily see them going to 4 gates max.

AA I can see keeping 5 and possibly sharing with B6. Destinations serviced: ORD (mainline/regional), MIA, CLT, PHX, DFW. Not sure I see B6 and AA both flying to MIA out of EWR... Does B6 drop the route?


That F9 news is good, have you confirmed this?

As for DL, they most definitely need 5 gates. ATL is essentially a shuttle type flight, MSP and DTW have been gaining back frequencies, I think one is 4x a day now and the other is 5x. SLC is 2x and so is CVG. I think BOS and RDU will definitely return. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see SEA, LAX, and AUS come online.

I would say B6 drops MIA before AA but really I don’t think either will. AA is flying it 5x mainline now, pre pandemic it was 3x. AA is also bringing back PHX this week with existing B6 service.

T1 is definitely gonna be busy.
 
EssentialBusDC
Posts: 288
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:06 am

Re: United confirmed as first tenant of new Terminal A at EWR

Mon May 31, 2021 7:38 pm

len90 wrote:
AC is now mostly mainline on the BCS3 to YYZ with Montreal still showing up a lot as a Jazz mixture.

F9 plans to restart growth at EWR in the next year or so. Their plans are to look at EWR growth after finishing up ATL and TPA. Two gates for them is not going to be enough. Their load factors are decent at EWR and they want to grow.

DL: do they really need 5 gates? ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC is all they operate out of EWR. DL has large operations at LGA and JFK. EWR is a spoke for their hubs. Can easily see them going to 4 gates max.

AA I can see keeping 5 and possibly sharing with B6. Destinations serviced: ORD (mainline/regional), MIA, CLT, PHX, DFW. Not sure I see B6 and AA both flying to MIA out of EWR... Does B6 drop the route?


So F9 gets another gate or two so they can drop it a year later? Their track record of longevity is not the best. But I guess that’s where CUTE gates could come in.

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