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MohawkWeekend
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Aerion Supersonic shuts down

Fri May 21, 2021 10:44 pm

Aerion Supersonic shuts down, ending plans to build silent high speed business jets https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/21/aerion- ... -jets.html


New technology in aviation is neither cheap or easy.
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    GalaxyFlyer
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    Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

    Fri May 21, 2021 10:59 pm

    No surprise here
     
    MohawkWeekend
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    Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

    Fri May 21, 2021 11:08 pm

    Makes you wonder who lost the most money and what happened over the last couple of months (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ac-listing ) -

    "Aerion Corp., which designs supersonic planes, is in talks to go public through a merger with Altitude Acquisition Corp., according to people with knowledge of the matter.

    The companies are discussing a deal that would value the combined firm at up to $3 billion, said the people, who asked to not be identified because the matter isn’t public. A deal could be announced as soon as this month, the people said."
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      orlandocfi
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      Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

      Sat May 22, 2021 12:02 am

      That is extremely disappointing news.
       
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      FLALEFTY
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      Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

      Sat May 22, 2021 12:20 am

      Meanwhile, Boom Aerospace got a small SBIR (Small Business Innovation Research) contract from the USAF in September 2020 to study the feasibility of using Boom's Overture supersonic biz jet/small airliner as a potential replacement for C-37A/B (Gulfstream G-V) VIP business jets.

      Boom is supposed to have a 1/3rd-scale version of the Overture getting ready to start flight tests later this year. The first full-scale Boom Overture is planned to be ready for flight testing in 2026.

      Oh, and apparently Boom wants to go public: https://investmentu.com/boom-supersonic-stock-ipo/
       
      MohawkWeekend
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      Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

      Sat May 22, 2021 12:43 am

      How much did Boeing have in the Aerion? Look at the valuations of the space launch companies. Airline stocks. A certain aircraft mfg too. Everything is over priced and over bought.
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        musman9853
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        Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

        Sat May 22, 2021 12:56 am

        Supersonics won't have a viable business case for a long time, especially since they produce even more carbon emissions than current subsonic craft
        Welcome to the City Beautiful.
         
        Brystar45
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        Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

        Sat May 22, 2021 3:08 am

        Hello everybody, even though I haven't been here much, I am still saddened by this news. My heart shattered to pieces, Still, at the same time, I am remaining hopeful that the dream of Supersonic and Hypersonic Jets will happen and live on as other companies and agencies can pick up the spirit that Aerion has for a new generation of Aviators.

        While Aerion tried, and I was hopeful even going to the Aerospace Industry for my career of working for NASA and other agencies, I was hopeful that Aerion would be an amazing company to work as a contractor for and in my home state of Florida too. But sadly, that will not be possible.

        Aircraft and Spacecrafts in general, being in the Aerospace industry is expensive and hard, but that doesn't mean dreams and ambitions die; At the same time, Aerion is gone, it will be reborn its designs will come back new; with Boom Supersonic's success and NASA's Supersonic project, Supersonic Jets will make a comeback.

        It takes a group of people, companies, or corporations to start a new generation of innovators, engineers, directors, builders, and more. I am trying to say that with one company's success, Other companies will follow and agencies.

        Aerion will be reborn, maybe not as Aerion but as something new, carrying the original spirit while embracing itself for the future. Look what happened with Space X, they kept on, and they became successful even though they tried, and now Space X is an Aerospace company that is successful.

        The supersonic Jets will make a comeback watch in a few years. It will be viable again with modern technologies and safety in mind.
        Going for my goals of being in the Aerospace Industry, Traveling the world and more!
         
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        TWA772LR
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        Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

        Sat May 22, 2021 8:58 am

        It seemed like Aerion had the best chance of success with Boom in a decent 2nd. A supersonic business jet with a respectable Mach 1.2 cruise seemed much more viable than a commerical airliner and they even had an engine selected. But it's taken them about a decade just to finalize the design. Boom is at least about to fly a prototype before years end.
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        VV
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        Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

        Sat May 22, 2021 9:43 am

        Which other civil supersonic aircraft project will fail next?
         
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        scbriml
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        Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

        Sat May 22, 2021 11:47 am

        orlandocfi wrote:
        That is extremely disappointing news.


        To be honest, it's extremely unsurprising news.
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        orlandocfi
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        Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

        Sat May 22, 2021 12:09 pm

        scbriml wrote:
        orlandocfi wrote:
        That is extremely disappointing news.


        To be honest, it's extremely unsurprising news.


        Sadly true. I think we sometimes hope against all hope that these aviation endeavors achieve success. The landscape, however, is littered with failed aircraft and airline ventures!
         
        Noshow
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        Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

        Sat May 22, 2021 12:13 pm

        They looked like being one of the more promising concepts. They will not be the last.
        Interesting that the military goes hypersonic big time while commercial wants to fly slow and "green" and electric or hydrogen.
         
        2eng2efficient
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        Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

        Sat May 22, 2021 1:06 pm

        As another poster mentioned, Aerion was reportedly in substantial talks to go public via a SPAC (Special Purpose Acquisition Corp). The amount of cash that would have been raised was going to be substantial. Clearly the SPAC walked away, and obviously Aerion had no alternative means of financing. Hence the CEO’s comment that they have no means of obtaining the necessary capital.

        I want to believe that Boom is in better shape, but they too probably need a SPAC deal to stay afloat.
         
        MohawkWeekend
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        Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

        Sat May 22, 2021 1:22 pm

        Aviation has had a few visionary individuals in the past 3 decades who were able to make breakthroughs - the Klapmeier brothers (Cirrus Aircraft), Elon Musk and his rockets come to mind. But for each of them how many have failed? The times we are in now have perhaps only been duplicated IMHO in the 1930's - start-ups gaining access to really big money going for the next moon shot leap of technology.
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          FlyingElvii
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          Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

          Sat May 22, 2021 2:13 pm

          MohawkWeekend wrote:
          Makes you wonder who lost the most money and what happened over the last couple of months (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ac-listing ) -

          "Aerion Corp., which designs supersonic planes, is in talks to go public through a merger with Altitude Acquisition Corp., according to people with knowledge of the matter.

          The companies are discussing a deal that would value the combined firm at up to $3 billion, said the people, who asked to not be identified because the matter isn’t public. A deal could be announced as soon as this month, the people said."


          SEC clamped down on new SPAC’s, until they figure out how to regulate them.
           
          by738
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          Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

          Sat May 22, 2021 3:08 pm

          Shame. I was slightly underwhelmed by the design and initial speeds being offered.
          Boom looks sleeker.
          Lets see what comes of that.
          Aerion - Boeing - bust
          Boom - American Express... mmm.
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          Revelation
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          Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

          Sat May 22, 2021 3:23 pm

          2eng2efficient wrote:
          As another poster mentioned, Aerion was reportedly in substantial talks to go public via a SPAC (Special Purpose Acquisition Corp). The amount of cash that would have been raised was going to be substantial. Clearly the SPAC walked away, and obviously Aerion had no alternative means of financing. Hence the CEO’s comment that they have no means of obtaining the necessary capital.

          That's largely because one needs a HUGE amount of capital to do all the things necessary to design, test and manufacture any aircraft, never mind a supersonic one.

          MohawkWeekend wrote:
          Aviation has had a few visionary individuals in the past 3 decades who were able to make breakthroughs - the Klapmeier brothers (Cirrus Aircraft), Elon Musk and his rockets come to mind. But for each of them how many have failed? The times we are in now have perhaps only been duplicated IMHO in the 1930's - start-ups gaining access to really big money going for the next moon shot leap of technology.

          I don't know about the Klapmeier Bros but I do know Elon Musk put over $100M of his own money into SpaceX, so it takes more than just vision, it takes a lot of cash.

          I'm very sorry Aerion Supersonic has shut down.
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          DLPMMM
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          Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

          Sat May 22, 2021 3:59 pm

          musman9853 wrote:
          Supersonics won't have a viable business case for a long time, especially since they produce even more carbon emissions than current subsonic craft


          That is a highly myopic view.

          People flying in private aircraft (and especially a new supersonic private aircraft) are not that interested in their carbon footprints or the costs involved.

          The business case for the aircraft category is unrelated to ecological concerns
           
          MohawkWeekend
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          Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

          Sat May 22, 2021 4:18 pm

          The Cirrus founders really resuscitated a dying industry - light General Aviation. The Cirrus Jet is a winner too. The idea that a start up company can build a supersonic jet transport is really out there in terms of chutzpah.
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            alberchico
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            Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

            Sat May 22, 2021 4:18 pm

            2eng2efficient wrote:
            As another poster mentioned, Aerion was reportedly in substantial talks to go public via a SPAC (Special Purpose Acquisition Corp). The amount of cash that would have been raised was going to be substantial. Clearly the SPAC walked away, and obviously Aerion had no alternative means of financing. Hence the CEO’s comment that they have no means of obtaining the necessary capital.

            I want to believe that Boom is in better shape, but they too probably need a SPAC deal to stay afloat.


            Considering that Boom plans to build a 50 seat SST with transatlantic capability, it will take at least 10 billion dollars to bring such a product to market. Not to mention the enormous costs of building a factory from scratch and setting up the infrastructure to support these jets once they're in service. I just don't see them succeeding either. If we ever get an SST, it will be designed by an established player rather by a startup. Lockheed Martin already has explored the idea of building a next generation low boom SST.

            https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... ner-after/

            Not to get off topic, but if it's true that regulators are starting to clamp down on new SPAC's, then that means that a lot of these new startups that are planning on building EVTOL's will fail too.
            Last edited by alberchico on Sat May 22, 2021 4:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
            short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
             
            MohawkWeekend
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            Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

            Sat May 22, 2021 4:20 pm

            I'm not sure why the SEC should be that concerned about rich people losing their money funding aviation technology. Better for us!
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              Aesma
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              Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

              Sat May 22, 2021 5:37 pm

              I never believed in this one, even less when they reduced the speeds, so not really surprised.

              DLPMMM wrote:
              musman9853 wrote:
              Supersonics won't have a viable business case for a long time, especially since they produce even more carbon emissions than current subsonic craft


              That is a highly myopic view.

              People flying in private aircraft (and especially a new supersonic private aircraft) are not that interested in their carbon footprints or the costs involved.

              The business case for the aircraft category is unrelated to ecological concerns


              They will be once the fuel is taxed properly. Well, maybe not all of them since they can afford it. I can see supersonic planes being banned from the European Union at least, will that do something to the business case ?
              New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
               
              MohawkWeekend
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              Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

              Sat May 22, 2021 6:26 pm

              Boom is claiming this on their website - "Overture will be the fastest and most sustainable airliner, thanks in part to our engine program".

              As I've mentioned in other threads, aviation is hoping for a miracle in chemistry to occur so they'll have a non-carbon fuel.
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                Polot
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                Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                Sat May 22, 2021 6:43 pm

                MohawkWeekend wrote:
                I'm not sure why the SEC should be that concerned about rich people losing their money funding aviation technology. Better for us!

                The SEC is concerned because you don’t have to be rich to invest in a SPAC- the general public can buy shares in it just like any other company. They want to make sure investors don’t get scammed.
                 
                Strato2
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                Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                Sat May 22, 2021 6:53 pm

                I'm happy this obnoxious climate destroying endeavor for the rich is no more.
                 
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                alberchico
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                Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                Sat May 22, 2021 7:04 pm

                Polot wrote:
                MohawkWeekend wrote:
                I'm not sure why the SEC should be that concerned about rich people losing their money funding aviation technology. Better for us!

                The SEC is concerned because you don’t have to be rich to invest in a SPAC- the general public can buy shares in it just like any other company. They want to make sure investors don’t get scammed.


                Right. There have been flashy tech startups like Nikola that were caught red handed commiting fraud relating to the capabilities of their products.
                short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
                 
                MohawkWeekend
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                Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                Sat May 22, 2021 8:12 pm

                From the Wall Street Journal behind paywall ttps://www.wsj.com/articles/the-celebri ... 615973578-

                "The Celebrities From Serena Williams to A-Rod Fueling the SPAC Boom"
                With fame comes fortune? Some of the biggest names in sports and entertainment are behind the recent rise in blank-check companies". Article follows.
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                  LAX772LR
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                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Sat May 22, 2021 9:10 pm

                  TWA772LR wrote:
                  A supersonic business jet with a respectable Mach 1.2 cruise seemed much more viable

                  No it didn't. Thought flight profile should've had you scratching your head from day one.

                  Airflow dynamics/characteristics change dramatically in the transonic zone (0.98M - M1.3). The drag increase is exponential if not logarithmic; so much so that Concorde would bring in its afterburners while within that flight profile; because the significant increase in fuel burn, was worth the benefit of getting out of the transonic drag-zone quickly.

                  And this aircraft was proposed to remain within that area?? That made *NO* sense.
                  I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
                   
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                  DocLightning
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                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Sat May 22, 2021 9:29 pm

                  Only took 25 years...

                  I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'll believe in SSTs when I fly a round trip in one.
                  -Doc Lightning-

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                  ADent
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                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Sat May 22, 2021 9:56 pm

                  alberchico wrote:

                  Considering that Boom plans to build a 50 seat SST with transatlantic capability, it will take at least 10 billion dollars to bring such a product to market.

                  If they can keep the MTOW under 86K United will take a bunch. :rotfl:
                   
                  neutronstar73
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                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Sun May 23, 2021 4:08 am

                  GalaxyFlyer wrote:
                  No surprise here

                  Nope. Not at all. Always thought this was too ambitious.
                   
                  DLPMMM
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                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Sun May 23, 2021 10:58 pm

                  Aesma wrote:
                  I never believed in this one, even less when they reduced the speeds, so not really surprised.

                  DLPMMM wrote:
                  musman9853 wrote:
                  Supersonics won't have a viable business case for a long time, especially since they produce even more carbon emissions than current subsonic craft


                  That is a highly myopic view.

                  People flying in private aircraft (and especially a new supersonic private aircraft) are not that interested in their carbon footprints or the costs involved.

                  The business case for the aircraft category is unrelated to ecological concerns


                  They will be once the fuel is taxed properly. Well, maybe not all of them since they can afford it. I can see supersonic planes being banned from the European Union at least, will that do something to the business case ?


                  That is my point...any fuel tax is not (proper or not) is not relevant to the business case for an SST business jet.

                  He EU banning SST (which I have not heard anything so far) might make a difference, but it would depend on how it was done.

                  A small SST that stays under Mach 1 while in any restricted territory might still do well.

                  I doubt I will ever fly in such a plane, but the business case might still be valid.

                  A lot of the potential owners I would assume to have a penis envy problem....a lot of that going on among the rich and famous.
                   
                  GalaxyFlyer
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                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Mon May 24, 2021 2:12 am

                  If restricted to overwater for supersonic cruise, it’s pretty much a NY-LON airplane and not very attractive to your target audience. GC routes between business cities are pretty much all overland in the northern hemisphere.
                   
                  AvObserver
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                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Fri May 28, 2021 1:23 am

                  Strato2 wrote:
                  I'm happy this obnoxious climate destroying endeavor for the rich is no more.

                  This new jet would have had near state of the art GE Affinity engines and an airframe optimized for both high subsonic and low supersonic regimes for the lowest possible fuel burn. Not as efficient as subsonic biz-jets to be sure but hardly a fuel guzzling monster like SST designs of old. No afterburners and able to meet near-term emissions and noise regulations. A corporate aircraft likely nearly on par with the large cabin business aircraft that fly up to .9 Mach. Hardly a "climate destroying endeavor", I think. It would appear the ONLY achilles heel was the company's inability to raise sufficient capital to transition to production. Too bad, because of the supersonic entries thus fielded, this one appeared to be the most feasible and the most environmentally friendly. I'd be more worried about the larger, faster Boom and other such SST designs still promised.
                   
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                  LAX772LR
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                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Fri May 28, 2021 7:09 am

                  Strato2 wrote:
                  I'm happy this obnoxious climate destroying endeavor for the rich is no more.

                  TRANSLATION: I can't afford it, so I don't want anyone to have it! Thus I'll scream "climate!" then they'll never suspect that my intentions are anything other than magnanimity :hissyfit:



                  AvObserver wrote:
                  this one appeared to be the most feasible and the most environmentally friendly.

                  Based on what?


                  AvObserver wrote:
                  I'd be more worried about the larger, faster Boom and other such SST designs still promised.

                  Why? Typically the more capacity, he less impact per pax flown.
                  I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
                   
                  AvObserver
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                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Fri May 28, 2021 10:57 am

                  LAX772LR, I should have put it in the context of business aircraft and not lumped it in with the SSTs that may yet come, though I have my doubts. Based on what I'd read, the Aerion S2 was the most fully developed civil supersonic in a tangible program striving to meet current and near term emissions and noise regulations. Neither Boom or the other designs were as far along and didn't have a final engine selection in place. Their greater seat counts make them better on paper but Aerion had spent a lot more years on refining their design and had made meeting near term regulations a mandate in their design. We've not yet heard the same specificity from Boom.
                   
                  cedarjet
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                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Fri May 28, 2021 11:00 am

                  You have to be in deep denial about climate science to think this is bad news
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                  aerorobnz
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                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Fri May 28, 2021 7:48 pm

                  I liked the Aerion concept, and I liked the pursuit of advancing aviation. Sadly it is an expensive enterprise and the economic shock of governments globally devaluing their currencies by printing monopoly money has not yet been felt fully, which makes everyone rather bearish when it comes to investment. Their timing is much the same as the original concorde in the 70s

                  Aesma wrote:
                  They will be once the fuel is taxed properly. Well, maybe not all of them since they can afford it. I can see supersonic planes being banned from the European Union at least, will that do something to the business case ?


                  The wealthy will do what they have always done, They will continue living a nomadic globetrotting lifestyle with multiple properties, citizenships and residencies that allow them the freedoms they desire, biding their time until more individual/business friendly governments take office again, because everything is cyclical. The European Union may well be a very different place in 25 years (if it exists in current form) and the smart money will probably have long since moved to greener pastures in developing/more relaxed economies where they aren't being taxed so hard and there are still opportunities and where private aviation is still allowed or even encouraged. Not every country in the world wants the same thing, thankfully.
                  Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
                   
                  Babyshark
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                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Sun May 30, 2021 2:33 am

                  cedarjet wrote:
                  You have to be in deep denial about climate science to think this is bad news


                  I’m all into science. Love science. Been into science my entire life.

                  Climate science is not science, it’s politics. It doesn’t allow for science.
                   
                  ABpositive
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                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Sun May 30, 2021 4:24 am

                  Babyshark wrote:
                  cedarjet wrote:
                  You have to be in deep denial about climate science to think this is bad news


                  I’m all into science. Love science. Been into science my entire life.

                  Climate science is not science, it’s politics. It doesn’t allow for science.


                  Climate science investigates the structure and dynamics of earth's climate system​. How some choose to engage in this scientific field for personal gains is different story, but the testable evidence so far strongly links human activities with the acceleration in global warming.
                   
                  CRJockey
                  Posts: 329
                  Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:54 am

                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Sun May 30, 2021 7:25 am

                  Babyshark wrote:
                  cedarjet wrote:
                  You have to be in deep denial about climate science to think this is bad news


                  I’m all into science. Love science. Been into science my entire life.

                  Climate science is not science, it’s politics. It doesn’t allow for science.


                  Really? What science would that have been? Astrology? Creationism?
                   
                  User avatar
                  scbriml
                  Posts: 19940
                  Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Sun May 30, 2021 7:35 am

                  DLPMMM wrote:
                  musman9853 wrote:
                  Supersonics won't have a viable business case for a long time, especially since they produce even more carbon emissions than current subsonic craft


                  That is a highly myopic view.

                  People flying in private aircraft (and especially a new supersonic private aircraft) are not that interested in their carbon footprints or the costs involved.

                  The business case for the aircraft category is unrelated to ecological concerns


                  That's great. Would you invest your money in one? Spend billions to bring one to market then watch Governments around the World ban them? I would suggest anyone who doesn't take the environmental impact of such a plane into account is the one being myopic.
                  Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
                  There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
                   
                  Noshow
                  Posts: 2510
                  Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Sun May 30, 2021 8:19 am

                  I agree it would be harder to market these days especially for airline uses like express taxi or similar. And I am not sure about the business case and need for it myself.
                  But looking at it from a technical way we allow massive satellite launches, massive supersonic military flights and now even go hypersonic.
                  To not build some -if at all- tiny fleet of air breathing supersonic oligarch jets will not affect or "stop" climate change or anything in any way.
                   
                  User avatar
                  LAX772LR
                  Posts: 13982
                  Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Sun May 30, 2021 10:50 am

                  Babyshark wrote:
                  cedarjet wrote:
                  You have to be in deep denial about climate science to think this is bad news

                  Climate science is not science, it’s politics. It doesn’t allow for science.

                  Sadly, you're telling the truth.

                  Of course study of the climate is science.... but what is done with the results thereof is so corrupted by politics, in BOTH directions (Leftists are in utter denial if they think it's only Rightwingers who do such), that it's often tough to tell when the line between the science and the propaganda begins. :(
                  I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
                   
                  744SPX
                  Posts: 492
                  Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:20 pm

                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Sun May 30, 2021 9:40 pm

                  I was never a big fan of Aerion. Way too slow of a cruise speed for the money it will take to build and certify it. Boom has a much better chance with their design, not only with the choice of speed but also passenger capacity.

                  If Boom can succeed, it makes it easier for the next step, which in my opinion is Reaction Engines mach 5 LAPCAT A2. A true gamechanger and green to boot (hydrogen fuel)
                   
                  User avatar
                  alberchico
                  Posts: 3321
                  Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:52 am

                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Mon May 31, 2021 4:08 am

                  https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/news/o ... ot-at-all/

                  A good editorial that summarizes the failures of the project.
                  short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
                   
                  User avatar
                  LAX772LR
                  Posts: 13982
                  Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Mon May 31, 2021 6:31 am

                  744SPX wrote:
                  Way too slow of a cruise speed for the money it will take to build and certify it.

                  Forget "the money," as mentioned above: it was way too slow to justify the physics.

                  No way would an aircraft meant to spend the majority of its flight profile within the transonic zone-- be profitable, relative to just about any other option. That NEVER made sense.
                  Same for Boeing's ridiculous Sonic Cruiser proposal.


                  alberchico wrote:
                  A good editorial that summarizes the failures of the project.

                  I'm not sure what your idea of "good editorial" might be... but that tripe was one of the most nonsensical and poorly-written articles I've ever had the misfortune of reading.
                  I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
                   
                  User avatar
                  Aesma
                  Posts: 14409
                  Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Mon May 31, 2021 7:08 am

                  aerorobnz wrote:
                  The wealthy will do what they have always done, They will continue living a nomadic globetrotting lifestyle with multiple properties, citizenships and residencies that allow them the freedoms they desire, biding their time until more individual/business friendly governments take office again, because everything is cyclical. The European Union may well be a very different place in 25 years (if it exists in current form) and the smart money will probably have long since moved to greener pastures in developing/more relaxed economies where they aren't being taxed so hard and there are still opportunities and where private aviation is still allowed or even encouraged. Not every country in the world wants the same thing, thankfully.


                  Every country in the world is...in the world. The same world. Where CO2 knows no borders.

                  The wealthy do travel a lot yes, but so far they're still flocking to cities in the developed world. Well maybe the UAE/Qatar too, although it's only a certain kind of wealthy people that enjoy that place.

                  Noshow wrote:
                  To not build some -if at all- tiny fleet of air breathing supersonic oligarch jets will not affect or "stop" climate change or anything in any way.


                  You're right. I would not compare that to the military as people aren't looking at the environmental impact of militaries yet, but the US military for example is already looking into it, testing biofuels, synfuels etc. Same for space launches, and their numbers are still very small.

                  However oligarchs being allowed to pollute unabashedly (which they already are, of course, cue the mega yachts and the VIP 747s...), while making sonic boom noises above our heads, is a distinctly awful look for governments allowing it, and for oligarchs doing it alike. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some of these oligarchs welcome this news too, because it doesn't focus any more light at their lifestyle than there already is.
                  New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
                   
                  mxaxai
                  Posts: 2649
                  Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

                  Re: Aerion Supersonic shuts down

                  Mon May 31, 2021 9:46 am

                  LAX772LR wrote:
                  TRANSLATION: I can't afford it, so I don't want anyone to have it! Thus I'll scream "climate!" then they'll never suspect that my intentions are anything other than magnanimity :hissyfit:

                  Regardless of climate, noise would have been an issue. Even if they managed to mitigate the sonic boom at a certain low supersonic speed, going faster would still result in a clearly audible boom. As you state, the transonic regime leads to high drag, which impacts fuel burn and range. I assume that Aerion found no way to get the speed to M1.4+ without a boom, so they abandoned the project.

                  Climate is an abstract concept for most people. Noise, on the other hand, is very tangible and has a direct effect on our daily lives. No (civilian) aircraft will receive permission to fly supersonic overland as long as the boom is any more than a faint whisper.

                  There's also the issue of engine noise on takeoff. Why would you fly faster only to be denied landing at LCY, TEB or SNA due to noise regulations?

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