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lightsaber
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:22 am

Flyglobal wrote:
And it is more important for Airbus to keep prices up in the narrow body sector. They know that they have the better offering in this segment and recently Airbus sales said it is worth a premium. Further they know it is not realistic to grab much more than 60% market share. So, to the benefit of all airbus sets the price margin and it should be high enough that Boeing can sell with profit.
This will only change when Boeing finally decides for a new offer, or when Russian or Chinese offers are ready to compete.

I am of this opinion. With the current backlog, there is no need for Airbus to dilute their sales pricing. FR just demands low prices. It is quite reasonable for a large order to demand they pay less than any other order.

Lightsaber
 
Noshow
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:28 pm

I'd still guess this order will happen. If they would just want to walk away there would be no need for all the drama. They would just finalize an order in TLS.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:28 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Flyglobal wrote:
And it is more important for Airbus to keep prices up in the narrow body sector. They know that they have the better offering in this segment and recently Airbus sales said it is worth a premium. Further they know it is not realistic to grab much more than 60% market share. So, to the benefit of all airbus sets the price margin and it should be high enough that Boeing can sell with profit.
This will only change when Boeing finally decides for a new offer, or when Russian or Chinese offers are ready to compete.

I am of this opinion. With the current backlog, there is no need for Airbus to dilute their sales pricing. FR just demands low prices. It is quite reasonable for a large order to demand they pay less than any other order.

Lightsaber


Less than 'any other order'? Less than Southwest? Anybody can do a fleet count or order count and see the more important customer. O'Leary isn't the big man he asserts to be.
 
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frigatebird
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:36 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:

I don't recall a lot of bluster around the 2013 order, and doing a search now, limited by date to try to get articles from immediately before and immediately after the order was announced, I'm not finding it restrospectively. He did bring up the possibility of a C919, but seemingly as a complement to more 737's, not a substitute. He gave little doubt that the question was not about if Ryanair would order more 737's, but which variant and for what price:

https://www.flightglobal.com/ryanair-ta ... 64.article

We are in ongoing discussions with Boeing and as soon as we can reach an agreement on price we'll place an order. It could be the -800 or the Max, whichever they discount the most - we'd buy a dog if it was cheap enough.


The guy is so full of himself, he's the one buying cheapest of all, so much cheaper than all other airline CEO's who don't know how to negotiate.... But when that picture falls apart, its his pride hurting rather than his wallet. That's why he is so publicly p***ed of at Boeing, and doesn't want to go to Toulouse (Airbus should go to him).

My theory is that MoL wanted at least the same discount for the MAX-10 as for the MAX-8... But Boeing doesn't have the volume for these kind of discounts. But that's just me speculating.

scbriml wrote:
HTCone wrote:
As for Lauda and Airbus, MOL is on the record that Airbus effectively refused to negotiate with them when he investigated a potential order for 100 A321 Neos.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reu ... SKBN22O1IZ

"We would not initiate talks with Airbus until such time as Airbus wants to initiate talks with us," he said in an interview.


You can characterise that as "Airbus refusing to negotiate", but it reads like O'Leary refusing to talk to Airbus just as much. It takes two willing parties to negotiate. Given Ryanair's previous behaviour with Airbus, it's no surprise. Why would Airbus allow themselves to be used as a stalking horse just so Ryanair can squeeze some additional concessions from Boeing?

Either way, O'Leary's rage after painting himself into a corner is amusing.



It surely is :biggrin:
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:41 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Flyglobal wrote:
And it is more important for Airbus to keep prices up in the narrow body sector. They know that they have the better offering in this segment and recently Airbus sales said it is worth a premium. Further they know it is not realistic to grab much more than 60% market share. So, to the benefit of all airbus sets the price margin and it should be high enough that Boeing can sell with profit.
This will only change when Boeing finally decides for a new offer, or when Russian or Chinese offers are ready to compete.

I am of this opinion. With the current backlog, there is no need for Airbus to dilute their sales pricing. FR just demands low prices. It is quite reasonable for a large order to demand they pay less than any other order.

Lightsaber


It is likely that both Boeing and Airbus have "most favored pricing" clauses. WN would be quite unhappy if it found out that Ryanair got a 5% better price than they did. The most favored clauses mean that WN would get the same pricing as well.

Why would Boeing want to sell below this floor, triggering giving WN 5% added discount on their planes as well. A further backstop to both manufactures to hold their sales pricing.

Although the prices for a plane are locked outside of escalation clauses, any new orders reflect the market reality at the time of proposal. With inflation going crazy, in particular around aluminum, the base price of planes is rising with inflation, not falling for a new great deal.
 
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BasilFawlty
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:09 pm

Interflug74 wrote:
Will Ryanluft ever make normal negotiations with airport-authorities, federal states or plane manufacturers? they always play offendend to achieve their goals. cant take them serious

Because that’s how you run a proper low cost airline, making good deals to save costs where ever possible. That’s why Ryanair until Covid came along never made a loss, not many other airlines can say that. And despite Covid they’re one of the very few airlines who can keep their company going without using government aid, not many other airlines can say that either. :spin:

mrbonfire wrote:
With some aircraft now 16 years old, wouldn't they be having heavy maintenance checks? Didn't they contract a company in the Middle East to do this?

Yes they do have heavy maintenance checks and no not in the Middle East. They have their own MRO facilities in PIK, WRO, KUN and SVQ.
 
mrbonfire
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:57 am

BasilFawlty wrote:
Interflug74 wrote:
Will Ryanluft ever make normal negotiations with airport-authorities, federal states or plane manufacturers? they always play offendend to achieve their goals. cant take them serious

Because that’s how you run a proper low cost airline, making good deals to save costs where ever possible. That’s why Ryanair until Covid came along never made a loss, not many other airlines can say that. And despite Covid they’re one of the very few airlines who can keep their company going without using government aid, not many other airlines can say that either. :spin:

mrbonfire wrote:
With some aircraft now 16 years old, wouldn't they be having heavy maintenance checks? Didn't they contract a company in the Middle East to do this?

Yes they do have heavy maintenance checks and no not in the Middle East. They have their own MRO facilities in PIK, WRO, KUN and SVQ.


They took a loan from UK government in May 2020.

Believe they have a maintenance facility of two lines in Jordan. It's never been clear what heavy maintenance checks mean i.e. C or D check.
 
Jomar777
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:06 am

I guess, not only Boeing but also Airbus and many airports will be glad when MOL decides to hang up his boots. He manages (and actually enjoys) annoying pretty much everyone else. If he cannot get Boeing to agree to sell (or shall I say give) their planes away, neither a good pricing/delivery plan from Airbus, what is he going to buy?? There's nothing else in the market unless he decides to go to Sukhoi or any other untested frame on the Western Market.
Boeing would not do this but I would be nice if it would publicly state that the deal with Ryanair is off and that the should go elsewhere...
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:07 am

HTCone wrote:
Ancillary revenue (extra baggage allowance, scratchcards, Bob, car rental, travel insurance etc) made up approx one third of Ryanair's revenue pre COVID and was growing YoY (up 19% in 2019)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 2746814410

As such, O'Leary went very cool on TATL. FR can make far more ancillary revenue using their aircraft 6-8 times per day within Europe than 2 times per day TATL. We won't be seeing them in that market at least until Europe is saturated, especially after seeing what happened to Norwegian. Not to mention MOL has said he expects demand to outstrip capacity within Europe for a couple of years at least.


Thats exactly the issue with ULCCs on TA routes. Unless you happen to be based in KEF you can't get the utilisation up beyond what the incumbents are already operating. IAG argued that their densified, low cost of ownership, 20+ year old 777s with LGW crew costs were cheaper to operate over the Atlantic than Norwegians 787s. I think some of the accounting might be creative, but highlights the struggle LCC's have in the long haul market, if legacy airlines like BA can get close enough cost-wise and LCCs can't make up the difference with ancillary revenues.

keesje wrote:
It's funny to see Michael O'L though, wondering why, if he makes the best choices, everybody else is selecting the other one.

He's the only major European LCC with a 737 fleet, competitors such as BlueAir and Norwegian had NG's and rolled over to the MAX. Wizz and easyJet had A320ceo and then became NEO customers. I guess the costs of replacing a fleet on the scale of easyJet or Wizz is too much to overcome. When easyJet selected the A319 they had only 64 737s in the fleet, quite a different scale.
Other than Silkair (~30 aircraft), has any other Airbus customer of scale been won over to the MAX?
 
Opus99
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:34 am

BrianDromey wrote:
HTCone wrote:
Ancillary revenue (extra baggage allowance, scratchcards, Bob, car rental, travel insurance etc) made up approx one third of Ryanair's revenue pre COVID and was growing YoY (up 19% in 2019)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 2746814410

As such, O'Leary went very cool on TATL. FR can make far more ancillary revenue using their aircraft 6-8 times per day within Europe than 2 times per day TATL. We won't be seeing them in that market at least until Europe is saturated, especially after seeing what happened to Norwegian. Not to mention MOL has said he expects demand to outstrip capacity within Europe for a couple of years at least.


Thats exactly the issue with ULCCs on TA routes. Unless you happen to be based in KEF you can't get the utilisation up beyond what the incumbents are already operating. IAG argued that their densified, low cost of ownership, 20+ year old 777s with LGW crew costs were cheaper to operate over the Atlantic than Norwegians 787s. I think some of the accounting might be creative, but highlights the struggle LCC's have in the long haul market, if legacy airlines like BA can get close enough cost-wise and LCCs can't make up the difference with ancillary revenues.

keesje wrote:
It's funny to see Michael O'L though, wondering why, if he makes the best choices, everybody else is selecting the other one.

He's the only major European LCC with a 737 fleet, competitors such as BlueAir and Norwegian had NG's and rolled over to the MAX. Wizz and easyJet had A320ceo and then became NEO customers. I guess the costs of replacing a fleet on the scale of easyJet or Wizz is too much to overcome. When easyJet selected the A319 they had only 64 737s in the fleet, quite a different scale.
Other than Silkair (~30 aircraft), has any other Airbus customer of scale been won over to the MAX?

Air Canada.

Also I doubt those IAG figures are creative. Norwegian rentals on those 87s was about 1.2-1.5M a month. Which is absolutely ridiculously high.

I don’t have a linkable source for you unfortunately
 
rbavfan
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:51 am

BasilFawlty wrote:
Interflug74 wrote:
Will Ryanluft ever make normal negotiations with airport-authorities, federal states or plane manufacturers? they always play offendend to achieve their goals. cant take them serious

Because that’s how you run a proper low cost airline, making good deals to save costs where ever possible. That’s why Ryanair until Covid came along never made a loss, not many other airlines can say that. And despite Covid they’re one of the very few airlines who can keep their company going without using government aid, not many other airlines can say that either. :spin:

mrbonfire wrote:
With some aircraft now 16 years old, wouldn't they be having heavy maintenance checks? Didn't they contract a company in the Middle East to do this?

Yes they do have heavy maintenance checks and no not in the Middle East. They have their own MRO facilities in PIK, WRO, KUN and SVQ.


Other than WN for years. with 741 in fleet vs 260 for Ryanair. Good luck Mol.
 
VS11
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:47 am

MOL might pull another trick out of his hat…like buying easyJet, which after the Wizz Air offer is really up for sale now….so if that happens he will still be able to play A vs B in future orders…
 
dfpinto
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:40 pm

It's not an unlikely scenario, since he already a small fleet of A320s in Austria, under the Lauda brand.
 
Olddog
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:53 pm

About zero chance the EU allow that to happen.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:42 pm

Competition authorities might not like it but Easyjet look like the are in play for somebody now. They had a rights issue with only 93% subscription. That is not good. The travel market is going to be bouyant for the next few years on exit from Pandemic but nobody is loving Easyjet.
Ryanair did take a shareholding in Aer Lingus by stealth and were forced to divest in the interests of "competition". I'm not sure being taken under the wing of IAG is my idea of free and open competition.
Easyjet would have been more attractive before they went for so much sale and leaseback as then they could have slotted in 737s, now they are obliged to honour leases(trying to keep on topic).
Ryanair now would probably be better off just swamping them out of their key routes with a stream of new airframes.
 
StTim
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:08 pm

Personally I cannot see MoL being allowed to buy easyJet - just far too much concentration of the UK market.
 
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BasilFawlty
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:21 pm

mrbonfire wrote:
Believe they have a maintenance facility of two lines in Jordan.

No they don’t. The main facilities are the four mentioned above, plus several smaller facilities at some large bases such as STN, DUB and BGY.

Jomar777 wrote:
He manages (and actually enjoys) annoying pretty much everyone else.

I highly like Mr. O’Leary and the way he runs Ryanair. The world would be a much nicer place if there were more flamboyant and contrarian people like him. It will be a sad day for aviation when he retires.

rbavfan wrote:
Other than WN for years. with 741 in fleet vs 260 for Ryanair. Good luck Mol.

Ryanair operates nearly 470 aircraft.
 
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keesje
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:43 pm

Opus99 wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
HTCone wrote:
Ancillary revenue (extra baggage allowance, scratchcards, Bob, car rental, travel insurance etc) made up approx one third of Ryanair's revenue pre COVID and was growing YoY (up 19% in 2019)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 2746814410

As such, O'Leary went very cool on TATL. FR can make far more ancillary revenue using their aircraft 6-8 times per day within Europe than 2 times per day TATL. We won't be seeing them in that market at least until Europe is saturated, especially after seeing what happened to Norwegian. Not to mention MOL has said he expects demand to outstrip capacity within Europe for a couple of years at least.


Thats exactly the issue with ULCCs on TA routes. Unless you happen to be based in KEF you can't get the utilisation up beyond what the incumbents are already operating. IAG argued that their densified, low cost of ownership, 20+ year old 777s with LGW crew costs were cheaper to operate over the Atlantic than Norwegians 787s. I think some of the accounting might be creative, but highlights the struggle LCC's have in the long haul market, if legacy airlines like BA can get close enough cost-wise and LCCs can't make up the difference with ancillary revenues.

keesje wrote:
It's funny to see Michael O'L though, wondering why, if he makes the best choices, everybody else is selecting the other one.

He's the only major European LCC with a 737 fleet, competitors such as BlueAir and Norwegian had NG's and rolled over to the MAX. Wizz and easyJet had A320ceo and then became NEO customers. I guess the costs of replacing a fleet on the scale of easyJet or Wizz is too much to overcome. When easyJet selected the A319 they had only 64 737s in the fleet, quite a different scale.
Other than Silkair (~30 aircraft), has any other Airbus customer of scale been won over to the MAX?

Air Canada.



Air Canada firmly committed to a 777/787 fleet for long haul 15 years ago https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.p ... tem=138254 and placed a major order for the MAX to replace their Airbus NB fleet. https://airwaysmag.com/uncategorized/ai ... t-renewal/ Since than the A330 are still in service, A321's have been sneaking in for years & now they are openly flirting with NEO's. Bad example ?

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... a321neolrs
 
Opus99
Topic Author
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:02 pm

keesje wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:

Thats exactly the issue with ULCCs on TA routes. Unless you happen to be based in KEF you can't get the utilisation up beyond what the incumbents are already operating. IAG argued that their densified, low cost of ownership, 20+ year old 777s with LGW crew costs were cheaper to operate over the Atlantic than Norwegians 787s. I think some of the accounting might be creative, but highlights the struggle LCC's have in the long haul market, if legacy airlines like BA can get close enough cost-wise and LCCs can't make up the difference with ancillary revenues.


He's the only major European LCC with a 737 fleet, competitors such as BlueAir and Norwegian had NG's and rolled over to the MAX. Wizz and easyJet had A320ceo and then became NEO customers. I guess the costs of replacing a fleet on the scale of easyJet or Wizz is too much to overcome. When easyJet selected the A319 they had only 64 737s in the fleet, quite a different scale.
Other than Silkair (~30 aircraft), has any other Airbus customer of scale been won over to the MAX?

Air Canada.



Air Canada firmly committed to a 777/787 fleet for long haul 15 years ago https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.p ... tem=138254 and placed a major order for the MAX to replace their Airbus NB fleet. https://airwaysmag.com/uncategorized/ai ... t-renewal/ Since than the A330 are still in service, A321's have been sneaking in for years & now they are openly flirting with NEO's. Bad example ?

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... a321neolrs

I mean. He asked If an airbus customer has been won over by the MAX. YOU just said air Canada ordered the max to replace airbus NBS. Warming up is not an order. When there’s one let me know
 
mrbonfire
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:21 pm

BasilFawlty wrote:
mrbonfire wrote:
Believe they have a maintenance facility of two lines in Jordan.

No they don’t. The main facilities are the four mentioned above, plus several smaller facilities at some large bases such as STN, DUB and BGY.

Jomar777 wrote:
He manages (and actually enjoys) annoying pretty much everyone else.

I highly like Mr. O’Leary and the way he runs Ryanair. The world would be a much nicer place if there were more flamboyant and contrarian people like him. It will be a sad day for aviation when he retires.

rbavfan wrote:
Other than WN for years. with 741 in fleet vs 260 for Ryanair. Good luck Mol.

Ryanair operates nearly 470 aircraft.



They do. Started in 2019. Renewed in 2020.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:55 pm

Opus99 wrote:
keesje wrote:

I mean. He asked If an airbus customer has been won over by the MAX. YOU just said air Canada ordered the max to replace airbus NBS. Warming up is not an order. When there’s one let me know


Ah, Air Canada very true. I think they must have had around 100 A32x. They are the largest fleet either has has turned, by far.
 
VS11
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:03 pm

StTim wrote:
Personally I cannot see MoL being allowed to buy easyJet - just far too much concentration of the UK market.


easyJet has 3 subsidiaries under separate jurisdictions - UK, EU, Switzerland. Ryanair at least two - EU, UK. In some UK markets there might be some actions required but overall there is a lot of competition in air travel in Europe.
 
Jomar777
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:07 am

BasilFawlty wrote:
mrbonfire wrote:
Believe they have a maintenance facility of two lines in Jordan.

No they don’t. The main facilities are the four mentioned above, plus several smaller facilities at some large bases such as STN, DUB and BGY.

Jomar777 wrote:
He manages (and actually enjoys) annoying pretty much everyone else.

I highly like Mr. O’Leary and the way he runs Ryanair. The world would be a much nicer place if there were more flamboyant and contrarian people like him. It will be a sad day for aviation when he retires.


If everyone ran an airline like him, we would be standing on short haul flights, having to pay to use the toilet and have no food whatsoever. I am not sure you used Ryanair before. They have by far the worst customer satisfaction rating. What saves them is that there's plenty of people that just want to fly cheap from A to B. That's why they will never be able to even consider flying Long Haul.

If he had a deal in the bag with Airbus, then maybe you could see sense but he has not (has upset them before...).

This way to run business does bring profits but at a cost.
 
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vfw614
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:18 am

Another interview with a German-language publication (https://www.aerotelegraph.com/interview ... cketpreise). Not sure how many of the soundbites are rehashed, but anyway - here we go with a summary

- Boeing raised prices for the MAX10 in the middle of negotiations wit Ryanair, so Ryanair went away

- MOL: "Boeing's orderbook is collapsing, so I dont understand what is on their mind"

- it does not make a difference for Ryanair to operate Boeing or Airbus, but Airbus is simply too expensive at this point as their NEOs are selling like crazy - "all LCCs are going for the NEO, nobody in Europe is buying the MAX

- COMAC C919 will be competitive in the next 5-10 years and within the next 10-20 years, COMAC will become the third force worldwide

- Irkut MS21 is a "junk airplane" and too small anyway

- expects easyjet to end up with IAG and Wizzair (plus SAS and Alitalia) with Lufthansa, with Wizzair replacing Eurowings.

- his prediction for Europe: Three large legacy carriers with different brands and a LCC subsidiary plus Ryanair as the only surviving independent LCC

- Germany will become the country of high fares in Europe because of Lufthansa and un-cooperative airports. Switzerland as a market not interesting as too expensive and too little growth potential
 
eicvd
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:20 am

Jomar777 wrote:
BasilFawlty wrote:
mrbonfire wrote:
Believe they have a maintenance facility of two lines in Jordan.

No they don’t. The main facilities are the four mentioned above, plus several smaller facilities at some large bases such as STN, DUB and BGY.

Jomar777 wrote:
He manages (and actually enjoys) annoying pretty much everyone else.

I highly like Mr. O’Leary and the way he runs Ryanair. The world would be a much nicer place if there were more flamboyant and contrarian people like him. It will be a sad day for aviation when he retires.


If everyone ran an airline like him, we would be standing on short haul flights, having to pay to use the toilet and have no food whatsoever. I am not sure you used Ryanair before. They have by far the worst customer satisfaction rating. What saves them is that there's plenty of people that just want to fly cheap from A to B. That's why they will never be able to even consider flying Long Haul.

If he had a deal in the bag with Airbus, then maybe you could see sense but he has not (has upset them before...).

This way to run business does bring profits but at a cost.


Bit contradictory there, you say you’ve flown Ryanair, have you had to stand, or pay for the toilet? Everyone knows he said that & similar comments for media attention which he duly received.
 
Jomar777
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:37 am

eicvd wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
BasilFawlty wrote:
No they don’t. The main facilities are the four mentioned above, plus several smaller facilities at some large bases such as STN, DUB and BGY.


I highly like Mr. O’Leary and the way he runs Ryanair. The world would be a much nicer place if there were more flamboyant and contrarian people like him. It will be a sad day for aviation when he retires.


If everyone ran an airline like him, we would be standing on short haul flights, having to pay to use the toilet and have no food whatsoever. I am not sure you used Ryanair before. They have by far the worst customer satisfaction rating. What saves them is that there's plenty of people that just want to fly cheap from A to B. That's why they will never be able to even consider flying Long Haul.

If he had a deal in the bag with Airbus, then maybe you could see sense but he has not (has upset them before...).

This way to run business does bring profits but at a cost.


Bit contradictory there, you say you’ve flown Ryanair, have you had to stand, or pay for the toilet? Everyone knows he said that & similar comments for media attention which he duly received.


You misunderstood me, I am sorry.

What I meant to say is that, given he is the only one basically that believes in standing seats, paying toilets, etc, so that's why we do not have those. BUT if the majority ran airlines like him, you could certainly guarantee having those.

I have flown Ryanair several times mainly for a single reason: they do fly to some European Airports which nobody flies either at a all or that often - e.g. I went skiing in Norway and flew with them because their Rygge Airport (marketed as Oslo) at that time was more convenient to travel from to where I was going to go...

I avoid them and prefer to pay slightly more (not much if you consider the add on for luggage, check-in, meal, etc...) on a better airline that treats passengers like customers; not like source of income.
 
Galwayman
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Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:20 am

StTim wrote:
Personally I cannot see MoL being allowed to buy easyJet - just far too much concentration of the UK market.


FR would be nuts to even look at high cost easyJet . Whoever ends up taking over easyJet will need to be ruthless to make sure it doesn't destroy their own airline in the long run.
 
Flying-Tiger
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:47 am

vfw614 wrote:
- Boeing raised prices for the MAX10 in the middle of negotiations wit Ryanair, so Ryanair went away
- Germany will become the country of high fares in Europe because of Lufthansa and un-cooperative airports. Switzerland as a market not interesting as too expensive and too little growth potential


Raising prices during negotiations isn´t good, but looking at the overall cost escalations of raw materials probably the only way Boeing could deal with it. Not nice, but if Ryanair´s purchase team has a look around what is going on in other markets and running prices this is a move they would have expected.

German airports: One could probably say that many have been burned by Ryanair and other LCCs in the past and are not necessarily too friendly towards the LCC business model anymore. Look at Bremen which was touted as "the airport" for Northern Germany where Ryanair even got an own shed... er terminal, only to find out a few years later that Hanover and Hamburg all of a sudden got a lot of Ryanair traffic. Or Wizzair & Dortmund recently. Whilst Lufthansa is probably quite hard in negotiating: the likelyhood that they are in for the long-term and that they grow traffic in a sustainable way is much bigger than with a LCC nowadays.
 
PhilipBass
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:30 pm

Re: Updated: Ryanair ends jet order talks with Boeing amid price dispute

Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:13 am

I don't think that the operators of Dublin, Stansted or CharleleRoi would agree that this LCC can't deliver sustainable passenger growth to them.
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