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T4thH
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Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 9:57 am

To admins, sorry, but this is something for "Civil Aviaton". This is not any more "Non Aviation".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Just now 30 min old news in Germany. I have not found any full "news".story, only short announcement on N-TV news on daily ticker, 11:21
So this news/link will expire.
Source is in German:
https://www.n-tv.de/der_tag/Der-Tag-am-Montag-24-Mai-2021-article22572663.html

According news, several airlines "plan to fly around Belarusian airspace in the future" after the regime critic Roman Protassevich was arreated. First announced seems to be Wizz Air and Air Baltic. "they anticipate a possible airspace ban that is currently being discussed in the European Union".
 
Accordingt0dan
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 10:04 am

Flight Radar 24 posted an image not long ago on Twitter of a Wizz FLIGHT (IEV-TLL) and an Austrian flight (VIE-DME) bypassing Belarusain airspace. No doubt we will see more doing the same later.
 
T4thH
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 10:08 am

Accordingt0dan wrote:
Flight Radar 24 posted an image not long ago on Twitter of a Wizz FLIGHT (IEV-TLL) and an Austrian flight (VIE-DME) bypassing Belarusain airspace. No doubt we will see more doing the same later.


And here I have founf the according Reuters News in English for Air Baltic.
https://www.reuters.com/article/belarus-politics-airbaltic-idUSL5N2NB17O
Airline airBaltic says avoiding Belarus airspace


EDIT: And now the same for Wizz Air: But this seems to be only one flight till now and I do not see the confirmation, that all flights will bypass.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/european-airline-wizz-air-redirects-flight-to-avoid-belarus-airspace-11621847226
Wizz Air Holdings PLC, a European discount carrier, said it was rerouting a flight from Kyiv to Tallinn, Estonia, to avoid Belarusian airspace, amid rising alarm in the global aviation industry over the forced landing of a Ryanair Holdings PLC jet on Sunday.
Last edited by T4thH on Mon May 24, 2021 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
 
T4thH
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 10:50 am

N-TV has just posted the full news story (so in German).
https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Erste-Airlines-meiden-Luftraum-von-Belarus-article22573040.html
What is new: Lufthansa will till now not bypass Belarussia, but they are on-going checking and will react in short time.
 
AVFCdownunder
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 11:49 am

I am quite sure what happened was a one-off isolated incident, that will no doubt be dealt with by international law. I don't see the need for a widespread knee-jerk reaction by the whole aviation industry.
 
Flanker7
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 11:57 am

KLM will for now not bypass Belarus airspace.
 
asuflyer
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 12:15 pm

Polish news reporting that LOT will suspend service to Minsk and no longer fly in Belarussian airspace although final decision will come from the Polish government.

https://www.rmf24.pl/fakty/polska/news- ... Id,5252115

Source in Polish
 
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Polot
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 12:20 pm

AVFCdownunder wrote:
I am quite sure what happened was a one-off isolated incident, that will no doubt be dealt with by international law. I don't see the need for a widespread knee-jerk reaction by the whole aviation industry.

This is part of how it is dealt with so similar incidents doesn’t happen again. It’s not like there is an international police force that is going to come and put Belarus in jail.
 
IADCA
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 12:24 pm

AVFCdownunder wrote:
I am quite sure what happened was a one-off isolated incident, that will no doubt be dealt with by international law. I don't see the need for a widespread knee-jerk reaction by the whole aviation industry.


"International law" is largely a letter-writing campaign. Companies protesting unwarranted state action against their industry by refusing to fly over - and thus not paying overflight fees - will hurt the perpetrators where it hurts, their wallets.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 12:37 pm

T4thH wrote:
N-TV has just posted the full news story (so in German).
https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Erste-Airlines-meiden-Luftraum-von-Belarus-article22573040.html
What is new: Lufthansa will till now not bypass Belarussia, but they are on-going checking and will react in short time.


They still fly to MSQ. Will they be cancelling their flights?

Which other foreign airlines serve MSQ.
 
factsonly
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 2:37 pm

lesfalls wrote:

Which other foreign airlines serve MSQ.


- SU Aeroflot
- TK Turish
- LO Polish
- N4 Nordwind
- M9 Motor Sich Airlines
- HY Uzbekistan
- U6 Ural Airlines
- IA Iraqi Airlines
- LH Lufthansa
- FZ FlyDubai
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 2:40 pm

Discuss the politics in Non-Av.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1461083
 
T4thH
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 3:15 pm

Just live in German TV/TV news, Lithuania: starting 2 am, tomorrow morning:
Lithuania has banned overflight over Belarussia, planes who have not bypassed Belarussia/flown over Belarussia are not allowed to land on Lithuania airports.
 
777luver
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 3:28 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Discuss the politics in Non-Av.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1461083


Respectfully, this thread has to do with civil airlines avoiding Berlarus airspace. Politics may come into a comment here or there, how do mods expect this not to happen? It's a civil aviation thread that's being talked about because of a political incident...........I understand the logic of separating the two but cmon
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 3:34 pm

https://news.sky.com/story/transport-se ... d-12315967

The UK tells its airlines to avoid Belarus airspace and suspends Belavia’s operating permit.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 4:02 pm

So...A Polish registred airplane flying for an Irish commercial airline with international passengers from Greece to Lithuania over a country that has already granted it one of their freedoms of the air and has now been intercepted by it. Nah ...i dont think this is politically related to civil aviation :confused:
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 4:39 pm

Airlines are already avoiding Ukraine Donetsk area like a plague, adding on Belarus will add a great swathe of land that airline are not allowed to fly thru, surely will add a lot of cost to worldwide airline plying intra-Europe and Asia-Europe routes. The saving grace is current pandemic there are not much flying happening. Can't imagine this happening during pre-covid era......
 
TWA902fly
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 4:56 pm

Looking at BAW261 right now, LHR-ISB, looks like it was first "diverted" to DME after first trying to avoid Belarusian airspace, and now it is making a full loop and making a 360 degree loop over Latvia. Wonder where it will end up?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BAW261

'902
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 4:59 pm

If you paste facts, please paste a source.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 5:17 pm

777luver wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Discuss the politics in Non-Av.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1461083


Respectfully, this thread has to do with civil airlines avoiding Berlarus airspace. Politics may come into a comment here or there, how do mods expect this not to happen? It's a civil aviation thread that's being talked about because of a political incident...........I understand the logic of separating the two but cmon

We have an existing thread that became so political it was moved to non-aviation. There was a request to discuss in Civil aviation. We keep any non-direct aviation politics in Non-av because it quickly becomes uncivil.

Over half our bans are from Non-Av. We work to keep these topics civil. For some reason political discussion has become more about absolute truths and people impose their absolute truth which... results in trouble

So discuss the politics in Non-av. The aviation impacts here.

We expect this thread to be a lot of moderation work.

Lightsaber
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 5:18 pm

TWA902fly wrote:
Looking at BAW261 right now, LHR-ISB, looks like it was first "diverted" to DME after first trying to avoid Belarusian airspace, and now it is making a full loop and making a 360 degree loop over Latvia. Wonder where it will end up?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BAW261

'902


According to Flightradar24 it’s diverting to Moscow.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 5:22 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
So...A Polish registred airplane flying for an Irish commercial airline with international passengers from Greece to Lithuania over a country that has already granted it one of their freedoms of the air and has now been intercepted by it. Nah ...i dont think this is politically related to civil aviation :confused:

We have a non-Av as the politics quickly goes to related politics, hence non-Av. e.g., on the politicians involved, on the intelligence services, and on diplomatic punishments. Aviation was a trigger for now Non-aviation events.

We cannot please everyone. Please respect we are trying to keep this civil aviation forum on topic.

All further moderation comments direct to [email protected] or discuss in site related.

Lightsaber
 
TWA902fly
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 6:08 pm

seansasLCY wrote:
TWA902fly wrote:
Looking at BAW261 right now, LHR-ISB, looks like it was first "diverted" to DME after first trying to avoid Belarusian airspace, and now it is making a full loop and making a 360 degree loop over Latvia. Wonder where it will end up?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BAW261

'902


According to Flightradar24 it’s diverting to Moscow.


I see that. Appears to have touched down right now. I wonder what's going on?

'902
 
Someone83
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 8:09 pm

Looks like the EU just agreed to shut down its airspace for airlines from Belarus
 
 
T4thH
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 8:49 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Looks like the EU just agreed to shut down its airspace for airlines from Belarus

- Yes, news/source in German:
https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/europa/eu-belarus-luftraum-sanktionen-101.html
Airlines from Belarussia are not any more allowed to use EU airspace or to land and start on EU airports.
EU airlines shall avoid Belarussian airspace, but this seems to be no advice.
And it is stated, that LH has already announced, that they will bypass Belarussia; this I have missed.

UK has already paused the Belavia certificate, this is also new for me.

EDIT: Confirmation, Lufthansa will avoid Belarussia airspace, source is in German: Reason was that for the last plane flown to Belarussia there was a bomb warning, plane has started with delay in Minsk.
https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/lufthansa-meidet-belarus-nach-luftpiraterie-bis-auf-weiteres-a-4765fd54-a9a5-4a8b-ae96-364907bfe2a9
 
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Ty134A
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 9:09 pm

Bolivian President Evo Morales was forced to land in Vienna, because Snowden was believed to be on this plane. I demand that no WizzAir or Ryanair Flight enters Austrian airspace! It would be a blessing for everybody....
 
DUSZRH
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 9:16 pm

Ty134A wrote:
Bolivian President Evo Morales was forced to land in Vienna, because Snowden was believed to be on this plane. I demand that no WizzAir or Ryanair Flight enters Austrian airspace! It would be a blessing for everybody....


No, he was not forced to land in Austria. He could have flown back to Russia. He decided to land in Austria, so that Austria could confirm that Snowden was not on his plane and the countries not allowing overflight opened up again.

If Snowden would have been on board, the obvious choice would have been to return to Russia. It would have been similar to Belarus blocking the flight and FR would have needed to fly via Poland to VNO.

Please move both posts to the non-AV forum :)
 
zippy
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 9:31 pm

T4thH wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Looks like the EU just agreed to shut down its airspace for airlines from Belarus

- Yes, news/source in German:
https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/europa/eu-belarus-luftraum-sanktionen-101.html
Airlines from Belarussia are not any more allowed to use EU airspace or to land and start on EU airports.
EU airlines shall avoid Belarussian airspace, but this seems to be no advice.
And it is stated, that LH has already announced, that they will bypass Belarussia; this I have missed.

UK has already paused the Belavia certificate, this is also new for me.

EDIT: Confirmation, Lufthansa will avoid Belarussia airspace, source is in German: Reason was that for the last plane flown to Belarussia there was a bomb warning, plane has started with delay in Minsk.
https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/lufthansa-meidet-belarus-nach-luftpiraterie-bis-auf-weiteres-a-4765fd54-a9a5-4a8b-ae96-364907bfe2a9


From DW in English:

https://www.dw.com/en/eu-imposes-sancti ... a-57649121
 
oldJoe
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 9:40 pm

Air France AFR198 did fly arond Belorus as well as KLM and BA flights

https://www.flightradar24.com/AFR198/27d0d739

The flightpath of UPS is a bit strange for me

https://www.flightradar24.com/UPS2/27d0fa4f
 
T4thH
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 9:57 pm

It seems a new flight route to the east is establishing, avoiding Belarussia and flying north of it.
Riga, St Petersburg and than east to China/east Asia. Yes, Belarussia seems to be already bypassed by everyone, including passenger jets even from Asia, cargo planes e.g..
https://www.flightradar24.com/55.66,33.85/5
There is now not a single airplane above Belarussia on Flightradar.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 10:05 pm

TWA902fly wrote:
Looking at BAW261 right now, LHR-ISB, looks like it was first "diverted" to DME after first trying to avoid Belarusian airspace, and now it is making a full loop and making a 360 degree loop over Latvia. Wonder where it will end up?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BAW261

'902


I saw that one. It looks like a like last minute route change.

For some neighboring countries, this is quite a problem. I'm not sure if they'll keep it up for long, as it seems they're imposing costs on themselves rather than doing anything to punish Belarus.

Looking at the airspace right now, I see that BA London to Kuala Lumpur and a few KLM flights to the Far East took the diversion to the north, whilst UPS and Mongolian went straight through.
 
konkret
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 10:35 pm

To preserve level playing ground for its own airlines UE should also require that any flight to/from EU airport cannot go through Belarusian airspace, no matter the carrier. Otherwise EU carriers will be at a disadvantage on certain city pairs with competitors from outside EU.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 10:55 pm

I believe the only US carriers that overfly Belarus would be cargo airlines or the odd charter flight. Most US passenger carriers do not overfly Belarus, if I'm not mistaken. It remains to be seen if the US will take action, if any, against Belavia, as they currently are not flying between MSQ and JFK.
 
asuflyer
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Mon May 24, 2021 11:40 pm

How many more 737MAX8's does Belavia have on order from Boeing? I know 2 have been delivered so far but I believe there are a few more orders outstanding.
 
oldJoe
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Tue May 25, 2021 5:03 am

usdcaguy wrote:
I believe the only US carriers that overfly Belarus would be cargo airlines or the odd charter flight. Most US passenger carriers do not overfly Belarus, if I'm not mistaken. It remains to be seen if the US will take action, if any, against Belavia, as they currently are not flying between MSQ and JFK.


At least the US have an eye on them. A Boeing E-8C is circling over Lithuania this morning

https://www.flightradar24.com/REDEYE8/27d1bb77
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Tue May 25, 2021 5:55 am

asuflyer wrote:
How many more 737MAX8's does Belavia have on order from Boeing? I know 2 have been delivered so far but I believe there are a few more orders outstanding.

They took delivery of first last month, three more to go giving a total of 4. Current 737 Classic (three B737-300s and two B737-500) will leave the fleet.
 
factsonly
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Tue May 25, 2021 6:31 am

Someone83 wrote:
Looks like the EU just agreed to shut down its airspace for airlines from Belarus


May 25, 2021 - Belavia flight BRU855 Minsk to ARN is en-route to Sweden.

https://www.flightradar24.com/BRU855/27d2177d

While American companies Fedex, UPS and Southern continue to operate in Belarus airspace:

https://www.flightradar24.com/FDX5384/27d1b6e3
https://www.flightradar24.com/FDX5342/27d1c219
https://www.flightradar24.com/UPS14/27d1ef54
https://www.flightradar24.com/SOO098/27d1f1ee

While Wizzair flight W6277 from Kiev to Vilnius is making a detour around Belarus, making the flight about 2x longer:

https://www.flightradar24.com/WZZ6277/27d20f02
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Tue May 25, 2021 8:06 am

oldJoe wrote:
Air France AFR198 did fly arond Belorus as well as KLM and BA flights


Yep, Asia-bound KL803 and KL819 both yesterday flew around Belarus with a slight northernly curve over the Baltic Sea before turning southeast for BKK
 
vfw614
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Tue May 25, 2021 8:48 am

A Cyprus Airways flight to DME briefly passed through Belarussian airspace in the Gomel area, so apparently they are not following the EU proposals (yet).
 
konkret
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Tue May 25, 2021 10:22 am

Ukraine will terminate flights with Belarus from 00:00 on May 26.
Ukrainian airlines and aircraft will be banned from flying over Belarus.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polyti ... ay-26.html

Ukraine will prevent passengers arriving from Belarus from passing through its airports

https://www.reuters.com/article/belarus ... SS8N2JP02B
 
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Aesma
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Tue May 25, 2021 10:49 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
For some neighboring countries, this is quite a problem. I'm not sure if they'll keep it up for long, as it seems they're imposing costs on themselves rather than doing anything to punish Belarus.


Neighboring countries are also the most likely to have Belarusian citizens on board. This isn't just about money, it was caused by an act of state piracy. Do passengers on flights from/to neighbouring countries want to take the risk of overflying Belarus ?
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Tue May 25, 2021 10:52 am

Belavia has updated their website accordingly:
Image
Image

Pity all those innocent staff and passengers caught in between this drama.....
 
AA737-823
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Tue May 25, 2021 11:07 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Pity all those innocent staff and passengers caught in between this drama.....


As it is in aviation, and in greater life, the actions and poor choices of the few effect the lives of the many. Flight attendants, pilots, passengers, ramp, MX, dispatch, on and on.
 
factsonly
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Tue May 25, 2021 11:38 am

One EU airline has a hard time avoiding Belarus airspace.

Check Cyprus Airways flight CY486 Larnaca to Moscow.
This flight avoids Turkish airspace, but as a result of the Ukranian-Russian border closure, has to use some Belarus airspace to reach Moscow:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... w#27d206f4
 
VCy
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Tue May 25, 2021 1:33 pm

I can also see a Belavia flight from Minsk to LCA, which is about to land. How come Belarusian flights to Cyprus are allowed?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Tue May 25, 2021 1:36 pm

Has the flight ban come legally into force yet, or will it take a few days before all the Govt bodies and aviation regulators (both EU and individual countries) sign off on it ?
 
factsonly
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Tue May 25, 2021 2:09 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Has the flight ban come legally into force yet, or will it take a few days before all the Govt bodies and aviation regulators (both EU and individual countries) sign off on it ?


Apparently, the flight ban of Belarus airlines has not come into force for all EU nations yet, only France and UK have closed their airspace for Belavia today.

Today Belavia operated to:
- ARN
- BER
- TLL
- WAW

https://www.flightradar24.com/BRU896/27d2cf41
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Wizz Air and Air Baltic (and other airlines) plan to fly around Belarusian airspace

Tue May 25, 2021 2:32 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Has the flight ban come legally into force yet, or will it take a few days before all the Govt bodies and aviation regulators (both EU and individual countries) sign off on it ?


At the moment it is just a recommendation. It needs to be adopted by the Council of Europe and then each Government to implement.

France, UK and Lithuania have already done so.

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Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos