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alberchico
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Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Tue May 25, 2021 10:52 pm

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1268493

Just what is causing this sudden spike in incidents ?
 
nine4nine
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Tue May 25, 2021 11:24 pm

The Rage Virus. Haven’t you seen the film 28 Weeks Later? That’s where we’re headed.

It’s time to hit these people with massive and crippling fines, imprisonment, community service, anger management courses, and of course a lifetime membership to the no-fly list.
 
Lilj4425
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Tue May 25, 2021 11:55 pm

You couldn’t pay me enough to be a flight attendant right now.
 
bigb
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 12:09 am

You have a lot of folks flying who have never fly flying today....
 
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Revelation
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 1:21 am

nine4nine wrote:
The Rage Virus. Haven’t you seen the film 28 Weeks Later? That’s where we’re headed.

It’s time to hit these people with massive and crippling fines, imprisonment, community service, anger management courses, and of course a lifetime membership to the no-fly list.

Yeah, that'll teach 'em good manners, and how to get shanks past security too.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 1:28 am

Losing teeth is pretty expensive... I hope the airline compensates then for it and seriously brings charges to that crook (or just make him pay for those damages). Talking thousands of dollars here
 
rph99
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 1:59 am

would love to see some more detailed statistics behind these spikes.
 
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barney captain
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:01 am

CarlosSi wrote:
Losing teeth is pretty expensive... I hope the airline compensates then for it and seriously brings charges to that crook (or just make him pay for those damages). Talking thousands of dollars here


That he was a she.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:07 am

barney captain wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
Losing teeth is pretty expensive... I hope the airline compensates then for it and seriously brings charges to that crook (or just make him pay for those damages). Talking thousands of dollars here


That he was a she.


Sorry for my lack of progressiveness :mrgreen:
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:20 am

No fly list for the assaulter. No question.
 
DLPMMM
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:39 am

CarlosSi wrote:
Losing teeth is pretty expensive... I hope the airline compensates then for it and seriously brings charges to that crook (or just make him pay for those damages). Talking thousands of dollars here


Workers Compensation will cover the medical expenses and lost time for the employee.

Hopefully LEAs will take care of the perp.

The Perp could (and probably will) also face civil charges from the FA.
 
cynlb
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 3:17 am

Here is a video with a few pictures from the flight-
https://youtu.be/zKhydU29ThU
 
BAINY3
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 3:46 am

Maybe this is a dumb question, but how does it work on an airline with open seating to identify an unruly passenger? How would Southwest know which name on the manifest is causing issues? Would they have to basically involve airport police upon arrival? I imagine this is an easier task on airlines with seat assignments.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 9:05 am

Does SWA have a No Fly list? If yes, how about a lifetime ban? Just inches away from the mouth are your eyes.... thankfully they were damaged
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 9:55 am

Let me guess... another mask Karen?
 
av8tiongeek
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 10:22 am

BAINY3 wrote:
Maybe this is a dumb question, but how does it work on an airline with open seating to identify an unruly passenger? How would Southwest know which name on the manifest is causing issues? Would they have to basically involve airport police upon arrival? I imagine this is an easier task on airlines with seat assignments.


A question that should have been resolved post 9/11. Technology is most likely the reason they haven't assigned seats. Let's hope that changes soon.
 
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Polot
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 12:03 pm

BAINY3 wrote:
Maybe this is a dumb question, but how does it work on an airline with open seating to identify an unruly passenger? How would Southwest know which name on the manifest is causing issues? Would they have to basically involve airport police upon arrival? I imagine this is an easier task on airlines with seat assignments.

Airport police would be involved upon arrival regardless of whether the seats were assigned or not. The airline is just not going to let someone walk off their aircraft and out of the airport after they assault one of their employees or another passenger. The police will check the person’s ID. You can’t fully trust assigned seats in the manifest-passengers switch seats with each other on the plane all the time.

av8tiongeek wrote:
A question that should have been resolved post 9/11. Technology is most likely the reason they haven't assigned seats. Let's hope that changes soon.

WN has trialed assigned seating in the past, I don’t think it is a technology issue. They like the faster boarding open seating allows.
 
jayunited
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 12:17 pm

BAINY3 wrote:
Maybe this is a dumb question, but how does it work on an airline with open seating to identify an unruly passenger? How would Southwest know which name on the manifest is causing issues? Would they have to basically involve airport police upon arrival? I imagine this is an easier task on airlines with seat assignments.



The person knocked out a flight attendants teeth, the police would be involved and meet the aircraft upon arrival at the gate and the person or persons involved would be taken off the aircraft in handcuffs. It wouldn't be difficult for Southwest to identify the person responsible and hopefully ban them from flying Southwest ever again.
 
BAINY3
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 12:32 pm

jayunited wrote:
BAINY3 wrote:
Maybe this is a dumb question, but how does it work on an airline with open seating to identify an unruly passenger? How would Southwest know which name on the manifest is causing issues? Would they have to basically involve airport police upon arrival? I imagine this is an easier task on airlines with seat assignments.



The person knocked out a flight attendants teeth, the police would be involved and meet the aircraft upon arrival at the gate and the person or persons involved would be taken off the aircraft in handcuffs. It wouldn't be difficult for Southwest to identify the person responsible and hopefully ban them from flying Southwest ever again.

In this case, sure, but I was thinking more of the type of situation where maybe someone just refuses to wear their mask the entire time but also doesn't physically attack anyone. But since it's a federal mandate I suppose they would just call the police for that situation as well?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 12:32 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Does SWA have a No Fly list? If yes, how about a lifetime ban? Just inches away from the mouth are your eyes.... thankfully they were damaged


I don't understand the popularity of flight bans in this forum. Airlines aren't law enforcement agencies. Carriers aren't offering due process rights. The industry does receive a lot of financial support from city and federal government, even before covid, and so can reasonably be considered common carriers - they need to carry anyone who buys a ticket.

I'm hoping the perp gets eighteen months for assault, not a flight ban.
 
Flflyer83
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 12:41 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Does SWA have a No Fly list? If yes, how about a lifetime ban? Just inches away from the mouth are your eyes.... thankfully they were damaged


I don't understand the popularity of flight bans in this forum. Airlines aren't law enforcement agencies. Carriers aren't offering due process rights. The industry does receive a lot of financial support from city and federal government, even before covid, and so can reasonably be considered common carriers - they need to carry anyone who buys a ticket.

I'm hoping the perp gets eighteen months for assault, not a flight ban.


Ummmm. What? So, any company that receives tax incentives shouldn’t be allowed to ban customers, because those tax incentives are financial support? You can be banned from public parks and get charged with trespassing in the correct situations. Maybe these passengers should read the contract of carriage prior to flying and if they can’t agree to the terms they shouldn’t fly? Or maybe someone should come to your place of employment and assault you on a regular basis without your employer being allowed to ban them from the property.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 12:46 pm

This person is being charged with a felony and could be doing her traveling around the prison yard for quite a while. As it should be.
https://abc7.com/southwest-flight-atten ... /10697262/
 
cschleic
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 1:11 pm

Polot wrote:
BAINY3 wrote:
Maybe this is a dumb question, but how does it work on an airline with open seating to identify an unruly passenger? How would Southwest know which name on the manifest is causing issues? Would they have to basically involve airport police upon arrival? I imagine this is an easier task on airlines with seat assignments.

Airport police would be involved upon arrival regardless of whether the seats were assigned or not. The airline is just not going to let someone walk off their aircraft and out of the airport after they assault one of their employees or another passenger. The police will check the person’s ID. You can’t fully trust assigned seats in the manifest-passengers switch seats with each other on the plane all the time.

av8tiongeek wrote:
A question that should have been resolved post 9/11. Technology is most likely the reason they haven't assigned seats. Let's hope that changes soon.

WN has trialed assigned seating in the past, I don’t think it is a technology issue. They like the faster boarding open seating allows.


Yes, they tested it on actual flights and got customer input. The answer was...it works well for them and customers want to keep it.
 
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TWA302
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 1:22 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Does SWA have a No Fly list? If yes, how about a lifetime ban? Just inches away from the mouth are your eyes.... thankfully they were damaged


I don't understand the popularity of flight bans in this forum. Airlines aren't law enforcement agencies. Carriers aren't offering due process rights. The industry does receive a lot of financial support from city and federal government, even before covid, and so can reasonably be considered common carriers - they need to carry anyone who buys a ticket.

I'm hoping the perp gets eighteen months for assault, not a flight ban.


You have got to be kidding me. An employee of the airline (a business) was brutally assaulted by a customer. There should be no option for attacker to fly ever again. No different from any other business having a no-trespass against someone. Should get a fine, jail time, and the ban.
 
kalvado
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 1:29 pm

BAINY3 wrote:
Maybe this is a dumb question, but how does it work on an airline with open seating to identify an unruly passenger? How would Southwest know which name on the manifest is causing issues? Would they have to basically involve airport police upon arrival? I imagine this is an easier task on airlines with seat assignments.

Police arrests an unruly passenger (name is not required for that) and the airline gets a copy of police report with the name.
Assigned seating helps only that much - most airlines allow swapping seats
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 1:47 pm

You know how air marshals are equipped with guns with hollow-point bullets? Why not give those to flight attendants as well? As Montgomery said in the article, misbehavior is reacing intolerable levels.
 
ozark1
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 1:50 pm

It’s coming from an unfortunately large group of angry, in-your-face, anti-any-kind-of-law or rule people. They have been seething at home and now that they are out they can start their journey with a harried experience at security ( even if it went relatively smoothly, they would still get worked up). Then to calm their nerves, they stop off in the bar before departure. Or they just go strutting to the gate, full of defiance at everything and anything. As a former flight attendant I used to think it was just the alcohol ( still a huge factor), but now it’s more than just that. I find it concerning and frightening. Pressing charges is the only way to go. Flight ban? Who knows how many holes are in that cheese.
 
kalvado
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 1:52 pm

TWA302 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Does SWA have a No Fly list? If yes, how about a lifetime ban? Just inches away from the mouth are your eyes.... thankfully they were damaged


I don't understand the popularity of flight bans in this forum. Airlines aren't law enforcement agencies. Carriers aren't offering due process rights. The industry does receive a lot of financial support from city and federal government, even before covid, and so can reasonably be considered common carriers - they need to carry anyone who buys a ticket.

I'm hoping the perp gets eighteen months for assault, not a flight ban.


You have got to be kidding me. An employee of the airline (a business) was brutally assaulted by a customer. There should be no option for attacker to fly ever again. No different from any other business having a no-trespass against someone. Should get a fine, jail time, and the ban.

There is a difference between a ban as a result of the legal process in a court of law and an at-will ban by the airline people advocate, where a passenger may - or may not - even have a chance to defend themselves.
DHS tried something similar and was heavily criticized. The airline will just be sued out of existence after a few screwups - and rightly so.
 
IADCA
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 1:54 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
You know how air marshals are equipped with guns with hollow-point bullets? Why not give those to flight attendants as well? As Montgomery said in the article, misbehavior is reacing intolerable levels.


Yes, let's give numerous weapons to people who don't have training to use them, no area to secure them, and are doing a thousand other things in-flight - as compared to an air marshal, who has one job. No potential for anything to go wrong here, especially when the levels of violence involved are hardly anything that would justify shooting someone, or quite likely shooting and missing in a pressurized tube.
 
WestendRaider
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 1:55 pm

Time for Lex Talionis: tooth for a tooth
 
IFlyVeryLittle
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:01 pm

Flight ban notwithstanding, this person isn't going to flying anything but ConAir for a while.
 
BAINY3
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:03 pm

Nomadd wrote:
This person is being charged with a felony and could be doing her traveling around the prison yard for quite a while. As it should be.
https://abc7.com/southwest-flight-atten ... /10697262/

Link doesn't work for me, it says "page not found"
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:05 pm

alberchico wrote:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1268493

Just what is causing this sudden spike in incidents ?


Deregulation and the cheapening of air travel.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:09 pm

BAINY3 wrote:
Maybe this is a dumb question, but how does it work on an airline with open seating to identify an unruly passenger? How would Southwest know which name on the manifest is causing issues? Would they have to basically involve airport police upon arrival? I imagine this is an easier task on airlines with seat assignments.


You bring up a good point. Not having pax sit in assigned seats that can be verified with a manifest is now, in these more evil times, going to be a security issue.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:12 pm

ozark1 wrote:
It’s coming from an unfortunately large group of angry, in-your-face, anti-any-kind-of-law or rule people. They have been seething at home and now that they are out they can start their journey with a harried experience at security ( even if it went relatively smoothly, they would still get worked up). Then to calm their nerves, they stop off in the bar before departure. Or they just go strutting to the gate, full of defiance at everything and anything. As a former flight attendant I used to think it was just the alcohol ( still a huge factor), but now it’s more than just that. I find it concerning and frightening. Pressing charges is the only way to go. Flight ban? Who knows how many holes are in that cheese.

This. Its frightening how much you see this behavior now that these types are getting out and about more. I've witnessed so much terrible behavior in the past few months, and its not just in airports/traveling its in stores, restaurants, gas stations etc. Unintended consequence I suppose of these people staying home much of the past year as they went nuts and are even worse now.
 
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Polot
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:13 pm

kalvado wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

I don't understand the popularity of flight bans in this forum. Airlines aren't law enforcement agencies. Carriers aren't offering due process rights. The industry does receive a lot of financial support from city and federal government, even before covid, and so can reasonably be considered common carriers - they need to carry anyone who buys a ticket.

I'm hoping the perp gets eighteen months for assault, not a flight ban.


You have got to be kidding me. An employee of the airline (a business) was brutally assaulted by a customer. There should be no option for attacker to fly ever again. No different from any other business having a no-trespass against someone. Should get a fine, jail time, and the ban.

There is a difference between a ban as a result of the legal process in a court of law and an at-will ban by the airline people advocate, where a passenger may - or may not - even have a chance to defend themselves.
DHS tried something similar and was heavily criticized. The airline will just be sued out of existence after a few screwups - and rightly so.

The difference is the airlines are private companies (even if they do benefit from public money). They have the right to deny service as long as it’s not discriminatory. Almost all Us airlines have a private blacklist of individuals they do not allow on their aircraft.

CobaltScar wrote:
You bring up a good point. Not having pax sit in assigned seats that can be verified with a manifest is now, in these more evil times, going to be a security issue.

How is not knowing exactly what passenger is in what seat a security issue? It’s not like Southwest doesn’t know who is on the plane. If someone needs to be taken off their identity will always be verified even if they have an assigned seat...because they may not be sitting in their assigned seat. Assigned seating just makes the process a little faster.
 
Western727
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:23 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
alberchico wrote:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1268493

Just what is causing this sudden spike in incidents ?


Deregulation and the cheapening of air travel.


I agree, though there's been an enormous spike this year. Thus, I think it's mainly pandemic fatigue, since the majority of the reported incidents thus far this year relate to a refusal to wear masks.
 
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TWA302
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:28 pm

kalvado wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

I don't understand the popularity of flight bans in this forum. Airlines aren't law enforcement agencies. Carriers aren't offering due process rights. The industry does receive a lot of financial support from city and federal government, even before covid, and so can reasonably be considered common carriers - they need to carry anyone who buys a ticket.

I'm hoping the perp gets eighteen months for assault, not a flight ban.


You have got to be kidding me. An employee of the airline (a business) was brutally assaulted by a customer. There should be no option for attacker to fly ever again. No different from any other business having a no-trespass against someone. Should get a fine, jail time, and the ban.

There is a difference between a ban as a result of the legal process in a court of law and an at-will ban by the airline people advocate, where a passenger may - or may not - even have a chance to defend themselves.
DHS tried something similar and was heavily criticized. The airline will just be sued out of existence after a few screwups - and rightly so.


Any private business (like WN) has the right to refuse service to any customer for their actions as long as it is not based on bias against a federally protected class of people. Good luck winning cases like these.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:30 pm

Polot wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
You bring up a good point. Not having pax sit in assigned seats that can be verified with a manifest is now, in these more evil times, going to be a security issue.

How is not knowing exactly what passenger is in what seat a security issue? It’s not like Southwest doesn’t know who is on the plane. If someone needs to be taken off their identity will always be verified even if they have an assigned seat...because they may not be sitting in their assigned seat. Assigned seating just makes the process a little faster.


Is it really any faster? If law enforcement is asked to take someone off a plane, the request will be "take the guy in the blue shirt in 14F off the plane," not "take Mr. Smith (who is the person listed on the manifest as seated in 14F) off the plane."
 
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Polot
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:35 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Polot wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
You bring up a good point. Not having pax sit in assigned seats that can be verified with a manifest is now, in these more evil times, going to be a security issue.

How is not knowing exactly what passenger is in what seat a security issue? It’s not like Southwest doesn’t know who is on the plane. If someone needs to be taken off their identity will always be verified even if they have an assigned seat...because they may not be sitting in their assigned seat. Assigned seating just makes the process a little faster.


Is it really any faster? If law enforcement is asked to take someone off a plane, the request will be "take the guy in the blue shirt in 14F off the plane," not "take Mr. Smith (who is the person listed on the manifest as seated in 14F) off the plane."

I was approaching with the mindset of taking person off because of suspicious/wanted person on board based on name who has not created an onboard incident (yet?).

If there is an inflight incident what’s on the manifest doesn’t really matter, the pilots/FA/Air Marshall (if one onboard) will direct law enforcement to proper passenger. Especially since depending on the nature of the incident the person may no longer be in their assigned seat.

There is really is no security issues with open seating versus assigned.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:41 pm

Polot wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Polot wrote:
How is not knowing exactly what passenger is in what seat a security issue? It’s not like Southwest doesn’t know who is on the plane. If someone needs to be taken off their identity will always be verified even if they have an assigned seat...because they may not be sitting in their assigned seat. Assigned seating just makes the process a little faster.


Is it really any faster? If law enforcement is asked to take someone off a plane, the request will be "take the guy in the blue shirt in 14F off the plane," not "take Mr. Smith (who is the person listed on the manifest as seated in 14F) off the plane."

I was approaching with the mindset of taking person off because of suspicious/wanted person on board based on name who has not created an onboard incident (yet?).

If there is an inflight incident what’s on the manifest doesn’t really matter, the pilots/FA/Air Marshall (if one onboard) will direct law enforcement to proper passenger. Especially since depending on the nature of the incident the person may no longer be in their assigned seat.

There is really is no security issues with open seating versus assigned.


That makes sense, and in your scenario assigned seating likely does speed things up.
 
nclarks
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:48 pm

Francoflier wrote:
Let me guess... another mask Karen?



Actually it wasn’t. Regardless even if it was, it’s a mandate and she would be doing her job, but it wasn’t. Know the mandate or stay home. This is getting out of hand for us crew members. No one deserves to be assaulted.
 
kalvado
Posts: 3392
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:48 pm

TWA302 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
TWA302 wrote:

You have got to be kidding me. An employee of the airline (a business) was brutally assaulted by a customer. There should be no option for attacker to fly ever again. No different from any other business having a no-trespass against someone. Should get a fine, jail time, and the ban.

There is a difference between a ban as a result of the legal process in a court of law and an at-will ban by the airline people advocate, where a passenger may - or may not - even have a chance to defend themselves.
DHS tried something similar and was heavily criticized. The airline will just be sued out of existence after a few screwups - and rightly so.


Any private business (like WN) has the right to refuse service to any customer for their actions as long as it is not based on bias against a federally protected class of people. Good luck winning cases like these.

Bans imposed after a passenger was convicted in common court may be defensible. Without that... good luck.
It will boil down to "common carrier" status, "reasonable" ban - and by the time ACLU brings the case to SCOTUS airline would have enough negative publicity to just collapse under its own weight.
 
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Polot
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Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:51 pm

kalvado wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
There is a difference between a ban as a result of the legal process in a court of law and an at-will ban by the airline people advocate, where a passenger may - or may not - even have a chance to defend themselves.
DHS tried something similar and was heavily criticized. The airline will just be sued out of existence after a few screwups - and rightly so.


Any private business (like WN) has the right to refuse service to any customer for their actions as long as it is not based on bias against a federally protected class of people. Good luck winning cases like these.

Bans imposed after a passenger was convicted in common court may be defensible. Without that... good luck.
It will boil down to "common carrier" status, "reasonable" ban - and by the time ACLU brings the case to SCOTUS airline would have enough negative publicity to just collapse under its own weight.

As stated, as long as it’s not for legally discriminatory reasons (eg against a protected class) it’s allowed.

The ACLU wouldn’t take up the case, and I’m not sure why you think the court of public opinion would take the side of someone accused (and probably convicted by time of trial) of punching a FA on board an aircraft. If it was a grandma banned because they were calling the airline with questions too much and the airline got annoyed maybe. But nobody cares if someone who assaulted someone else on board a plane is banned.
 
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TWA302
Posts: 1070
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:17 am

Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 2:57 pm

kalvado wrote:
Bans imposed after a passenger was convicted in common court may be defensible. Without that... good luck.
It will boil down to "common carrier" status, "reasonable" ban - and by the time ACLU brings the case to SCOTUS airline would have enough negative publicity to just collapse under its own weight.


Please show us where the common carrier status reflects this and it overrides that any private business can deny service to anyone for a certain reason as long as it is not a federally protected class and I will recant. Otherwise, you are wrong. Airlines in the US have banned people for many reasons. That is their right to do so in order to protect their other customers and employees.
 
MDC862
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:12 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 3:07 pm

What is it that the airline employees say, that this all started ramping up with the "stimi-money people?"
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2873
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 3:09 pm

I fear the airlines are in for a long hot summer as majority of mask mandates go away
but are still strictly enforced at airports and on airliners. I think momentum will increase to mandate proof
of vax for flights by end of the year. Only logical way to safely drop the mask mandate
on flights .
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15364
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 3:20 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
I fear the airlines are in for a long hot summer as majority of mask mandates go away
but are still strictly enforced at airports and on airliners. I think momentum will increase to mandate proof
of vax for flights by end of the year. Only logical way to safely drop the mask mandate
on flights .


I'm maybe a little more optimistic than you are, though I'm also afraid you're right. The more optimistic take is that as folks settle in to a routine where masks are requested or required in some places but not in others, aircraft and airports will just be a place that happens to be on the "masks required" list. Many of us have been living this reality for a while - for instance, my company (essential business so we never fully shut down) had a rigorous mask mandate but those of us with individual offices with doors were not required to wear masks at our desks.
 
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Revelation
Posts: 27015
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 3:25 pm

BAINY3 wrote:
Nomadd wrote:
This person is being charged with a felony and could be doing her traveling around the prison yard for quite a while. As it should be.
https://abc7.com/southwest-flight-atten ... /10697262/

Link doesn't work for me, it says "page not found"

Better link: https://6abc.com/southwest-flight-atten ... /10697262/

San Diego authorities charged a 28-year-old woman with felony battery after an attack on a Southwest Airlines plane in which a flight attendant lost two teeth and suffered other injuries to her face.
...
"The passenger repeatedly ignored standard inflight instructions and became verbally and physically abusive upon landing," said Southwest spokesman Chris Mainz.

The flight attendant was not identified. Paramedics took her to a hospital for treatment, and she was later released. Southwest flew a friend to San Diego to be with her.

This article names the pax and their domicile, but I won't post that stuff here.

Anyone know the sentencing guidelines for felony battery in CA?

Bet this gets pled down, though.

ozark1 wrote:
It’s coming from an unfortunately large group of angry, in-your-face, anti-any-kind-of-law or rule people. They have been seething at home and now that they are out they can start their journey with a harried experience at security ( even if it went relatively smoothly, they would still get worked up). Then to calm their nerves, they stop off in the bar before departure. Or they just go strutting to the gate, full of defiance at everything and anything. As a former flight attendant I used to think it was just the alcohol ( still a huge factor), but now it’s more than just that. I find it concerning and frightening. Pressing charges is the only way to go. Flight ban? Who knows how many holes are in that cheese.

"Seething at home" IMO comes from the blame culture that most media sources of all political ilks push to gain ratings and thus advertising revenue. The rest IMO largely comes from bad parenting. A person should lose this kind of attitude early in life, never mind still have it on full display at age 28.
 
kalvado
Posts: 3392
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Southwest Airlines flight attendant loses two teeth after passenger assault

Wed May 26, 2021 3:27 pm

Polot wrote:
kalvado wrote:
TWA302 wrote:

Any private business (like WN) has the right to refuse service to any customer for their actions as long as it is not based on bias against a federally protected class of people. Good luck winning cases like these.

Bans imposed after a passenger was convicted in common court may be defensible. Without that... good luck.
It will boil down to "common carrier" status, "reasonable" ban - and by the time ACLU brings the case to SCOTUS airline would have enough negative publicity to just collapse under its own weight.

As stated, as long as it’s not for legally discriminatory reasons (eg against a protected class) it’s allowed.

The ACLU wouldn’t take up the case, and I’m not sure why you think the court of public opinion would take the side of someone accused (and probably convicted by time of trial) of punching a FA on board an aircraft. If it was a grandma banned because they were calling the airline with questions too much and the airline got annoyed maybe. But nobody cares if someone who assaulted someone else on board a plane is banned.

I am specifically saying that court conviction is changing things big time. Accused and not prosecuted is a way weaker position. Cleared in court is even weaker.
In this particular case, we're talking about felony charges already filed.

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