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paullam
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:08 am

Re: Russia denies entry to AF and OS flights to SVO and DME

Sat May 29, 2021 6:10 am

zeke wrote:

Internal airways are for Chinese mainland carriers only.



What do you mean by that? Don’t foreign carriers use that same airways as Chinese carriers do?
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VSMUT
Posts: 5498
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Russia denies entry to AF and OS flights to SVO and DME

Sat May 29, 2021 10:43 am

TRC wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
TRC wrote:
In the case of AF it is clearly an indirect political retaliation after Belavia flight from MSQ to BCN was denied entering French airspace.

The 2 AF flights to Mosciw SVO, past Wednesday and yesterday (operated in Boeing 787-9) were cancelled and today (Airbus A319) as well. AF requests to change flight plans were perfectly sent ontime to the Russian authorities but so far until now... still no reply from their side since....Tuesday! Purely political black mailing ignoring AF demand.

Yes AF and SU found a common arrangement by sending yesterday to CDG an SU 77W and today an SU A333 (instead of the usual SU A320/A321 5-6 times per week).

AF flights to LED (twice per week A319) seem not be affected for the moment: AF aircraft flew to LED on Wednesaday and next flight is still planned for tomorrow.

Las but not least AF is supposed to start flying next week to SVO with A350 if situation allows it.


The Belavia flight was denied by Poland, not France. It didn't even leave Belarusian airspace. KLM is the same company and is still allowed to fly. As you yourself wrote, it is clear that only flights that were previously filed through Belarus are affected, since St. Petersburg doesn't go via Belarus. But nice try.


Not at all, today Belarussian Prime Minister Roman Golovchenko met in Minsk Russian Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin.

Golovchenko declared "An outrageous incident took place on a Minsk-Barcelona flight yesterday. As our airplane was gaining altitude, we received information on the closing of the airspace over France in violation of all aviation regulations and rules. As a result, our plane had to return to Minsk."

So the reason why the flight to BCN did not go out of Belarus airspace is because France closed its airspace to Belavia.

Pure Russian political decisions against AF and OS!

Full declaration is here: http://government.ru/en/news/42330/


Air France 1154 is currently in Russian airspace enroute to Moscow, where it will land in 30 minutes. And yes, it flew around Belarus. Austrian did the flight yesterday.

I think we can put your wild theories to rest now.


artflyer wrote:
At that time there was no notam prohibiting Belavia access to Polish airspace


There does not have to be a NOTAM to deny access to an aircraft.


artflyer wrote:
So why that plane did not enter Polish airspace? I guess they did not want to pay for overflight to Poland after they realised they may have difficulty to reach the final destination and decided to stay circiling in the Belarussian airspace until finally confirmed that they should head back to MSQ.


Because they were denied. By Poland. Poland charges a ridiculously low fee of something like 40-45 eur in overflight fees.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Russia denies entry to AF and OS flights to SVO and DME

Sat May 29, 2021 10:58 am

paullam wrote:
zeke wrote:

Internal airways are for Chinese mainland carriers only.



What do you mean by that? Don’t foreign carriers use that same airways as Chinese carriers do?

They do - but there's also some internal airways that are reserved for Chinese carriers only in addition to these published routes

Examples of these includes within Yunnan province and Tibetian areas

Michael
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16100
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Russia denies entry to AF and OS flights to SVO and DME

Sat May 29, 2021 3:45 pm

paullam wrote:
What do you mean by that? Don’t foreign carriers use that same airways as Chinese carriers do?


If you like think of some airways as being only available to domestic carriers and others available to everyone. The AIP lists airways which are available for entry and transit, that is only a small subset of the defined airways. Subsequently any foreign carrier ends up flying further than a domestic carrier.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
asuflyer
Topic Author
Posts: 741
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Re: Russia denies entry to AF and OS flights to SVO and DME

Sun May 30, 2021 1:25 am

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-05-29/

It appears that Russia has now approved the AF and OS routes to Moscow that avoid Belarus airspace.
 
hohd
Posts: 1014
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Russia denies entry to AF and OS flights to SVO and DME

Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:54 pm

stl07 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
N757ST wrote:

Is this true? That’s some wicked inflexibility and it’s the only country then that I’ve heard of doing that.


Have you ever been to Russia? Have you ever dealt with a Russian bureaucrat? (hint, you will meet one at the border). Russian bureaucracy is world-renowned. Russian bureaucrats make the Vogons look like sloppy laggards.

The only country I've ever encountered with a more onerous bureaucracy is India. Although I once almost got detained in Mexico solely because the cruise line lost my exit form. I've never been to China (other than Hong Kong), but I have heard that their bureaucracy is also quite...arduous.

THAT explains it! When I landed in Goa, all the American/British tourists coming for the music festivals and beach resorts seemed extremely frustrated at Indian customs but the Russians seems completely unfazed by it


I dont know about specific experiences in India, but when I visit India often I dont encounter any hassles at customs and only the standard questions at Immigration. May be in the past about 20 to 30 years ago, the situation was bad with customs in India, but generally foreigners are well treated in India.

However I have heard horror stories when the connecting flights are missed in Moscow. Russian bureaucracy and for that matter even French bureaucracy can be very frustrating for persons from countries where visas are normally required and whenever there are issues of missing flights or having to spend one night due to missed connections.
 
TRC
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri May 28, 2021 8:59 am

Re: Russia denies entry to AF and OS flights to SVO and DME

Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:01 am

Yesterday the same situation happened to LH: Russia denied entry. Germany did the same by not allowing S7 and SU flights to FRA, HAM and BER.

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