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LAX772LR wrote:Just so sad to see what Boeing's become.
They only deliver two pax plane products (737MAX and 787), both have been grounded multiple times, and IINM they both hold the narrowbody and widebody records for grounding, as well as the former with the all-time grounding record for a plane returned to service.
This company needs to be gutted and and cleaned out on EVERY executive and supervisory level.
LAX772LR wrote:Just so sad to see what Boeing's become.
They only deliver two pax plane products (737MAX and 787), both have been grounded multiple times, and IINM they both hold the narrowbody and widebody records for grounding, as well as the former with the all-time grounding record for a plane returned to service.
This company needs to be gutted and and cleaned out on EVERY executive and supervisory level.
piedmontf284000 wrote:Boeing has chosen to temporarily stop deliveries, only because the FAA has not approved Boeing’s proposal for planned inspections to meet federal guidelines. There is huge difference between voluntarily stopping deliveries as opposed to having the FAA order it.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-05-28/
JannEejit wrote:piedmontf284000 wrote:Boeing has chosen to temporarily stop deliveries, only because the FAA has not approved Boeing’s proposal for planned inspections to meet federal guidelines. There is huge difference between voluntarily stopping deliveries as opposed to having the FAA order it.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-05-28/
Indeed so, but the big questions remain. What exactly are the FAA concerned about ? And what are Boeing going to do about that ?
Ziyulu wrote:LAX772LR wrote:What about 779, 748, 738, 739? There are also military planes. There are a lot more products than 737MAX and 787.
piedmontf284000 wrote:Boeing has chosen to temporarily stop deliveries, only because the FAA has not approved Boeing’s proposal for planned inspections to meet federal guidelines. There is huge difference between voluntarily stopping deliveries as opposed to having the FAA order it.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-05-28/
SunsetLimited wrote:You’ll never find a bigger Boeing supporter than I am, but it has to be said - you don’t see Airbus running into these kind of issues. Credit where it’s due.
I hope Boeing can get its house in order. It’s sort of embarrassing to read about constant issues like this. Is it safe to say that the last overall trouble free Boeing launch was the original 777 in the mid 90s? Whatever the culture was at that time - get back to that.
AA737-823 wrote:piedmontf284000 wrote:Boeing has chosen to temporarily stop deliveries, only because the FAA has not approved Boeing’s proposal for planned inspections to meet federal guidelines. There is huge difference between voluntarily stopping deliveries as opposed to having the FAA order it.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-05-28/
Not really; that argument would make sense on a NEW product.
But a product that has been serially produced for over a decade?
I'm not buying it.
Ziyulu wrote:What about 779, 748, 738, 739? There are also military planes. There are a lot more products than 737MAX and 787.
SunsetLimited wrote:You’ll never find a bigger Boeing supporter than I am, but it has to be said - you don’t see Airbus running into these kind of issues. Credit where it’s due.
I hope Boeing can get its house in order. It’s sort of embarrassing to read about constant issues like this. Is it safe to say that the last overall trouble free Boeing launch was the original 777 in the mid 90s? Whatever the culture was at that time - get back to that.
LAX772LR wrote:Just so sad to see what Boeing's become.
They only deliver two pax plane products (737MAX and 787), both have been grounded multiple times, and IINM they both hold the narrowbody and widebody records for grounding, as well as the former with the all-time grounding record for a plane returned to service.
This company needs to be gutted and and cleaned out on EVERY executive and supervisory level.
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:There is a backlog of 11 777-300ER....
WayexTDI wrote:How many times has the 787 been grounded? I can only think of one time (January through April 2013) due to the battery catching fire.
As far as the 737MAX, it also has been grounded only once (March 2019 through November 2020).
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:WayexTDI wrote:How many times has the 787 been grounded? I can only think of one time (January through April 2013) due to the battery catching fire.
As far as the 737MAX, it also has been grounded only once (March 2019 through November 2020).
Maybe not grounded multiple times, but have definitely had deliveries halted... That's sort of a pre-emptive self grounding of undelivered planes. There were those MAX frames that were down for a while over the 'electrical grounding issue'. There were 787 deliveries halted because of the join issues...
WayexTDI wrote:How many times has the 787 been grounded? I can only think of one time (January through April 2013) due to the battery catching fire.
As far as the 737MAX, it also has been grounded only once (March 2019 through November 2020).
hivue wrote:So the FAA announces that Boeing is suspending 787 deliveries instead of Boeing announcing that Boeing is suspending 787 deliveries.
WayexTDI wrote:That's a lot of difference: grounding of planes mean that type is no longer allowed to fly, be it a day old or 20 years old. Stopping deliveries is reserved to a set of frames, but their sisterships are still allowed to fly.
Opus99 wrote:JannEejit wrote:piedmontf284000 wrote:Boeing has chosen to temporarily stop deliveries, only because the FAA has not approved Boeing’s proposal for planned inspections to meet federal guidelines. There is huge difference between voluntarily stopping deliveries as opposed to having the FAA order it.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-05-28/
Indeed so, but the big questions remain. What exactly are the FAA concerned about ? And what are Boeing going to do about that ?
The quality inspection is what they’re worried about. The WSJ article I posted in the 787 production thread explains everything.
Boeing has one way of inspecting
FAA recommends another way till Boeing can prove their way works (with more documentation) they have to use the FAAs requirements but that is much longer and much more labour hours.
So here we are
An American that was supposed to go out today I think has been pushed to next week
AA737-823 wrote:Ziyulu wrote:LAX772LR wrote:What about 779, 748, 738, 739? There are also military planes. There are a lot more products than 737MAX and 787.
Of the planes you listed, only the 747 is actually a product that Boeing is currently able to deliver. And a 747 rolls off the line only once every TWO MONTHS. Plus, production is wrapping up; I think they're down to fewer than 10 left in the pipeline?
The 779 is not certificated, and won't be for years.
The 737NG line ceased production years ago.
So, your info is quite obsolete.
This is a problem that has been building, rather than subsiding, for some time now. Boeing has painted itself into a corner, where they are able to "sell" orders for airplanes, but due to their own internal corruption and laziness, are not actually able to deliver aircraft, nor charge any money.
That the MAX and 77X programs are a disaster is no secret. And, even as a huge historic Boeing fan, I must say that they have no one to blame but themselves.
piedmontf284000 wrote:Boeing has chosen to temporarily stop deliveries, only because the FAA has not approved Boeing’s proposal for planned inspections to meet federal guidelines. There is huge difference between voluntarily stopping deliveries as opposed to having the FAA order it.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-05-28/
Opus99 wrote:https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-halts-787-deliveries-again-as-it-awaits-faa-approval-on-verifying-fixes/
Dominic gates highlights it better. he says it may just be a show us your homework situation. FAA already approved Boeing to restart when it did and they say there have been no further concerns. So it may be a matter of documentation.
Opus99 wrote:https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-halts-787-deliveries-again-as-it-awaits-faa-approval-on-verifying-fixes/
Dominic gates highlights it better. he says it may just be a show us your homework situation. FAA already approved Boeing to restart when it did and they say there have been no further concerns. So it may be a matter of documentation.
LAX772LR wrote:Just so sad to see what Boeing's become.
They only deliver two pax plane products (737MAX and 787), both have been grounded multiple times, and IINM they both hold the narrowbody and widebody records for grounding, as well as the former with the all-time grounding record for a plane returned to service.
This company needs to be gutted and and cleaned out on EVERY executive and supervisory level.
Opus99 wrote:Everybody talks about the McD merger being the root cause of all this. Imagine how BAD mcD must have been to be the root cause of the rot of a company the size of Boeing.
Also can someone explain why Boeing felt the merger was necessary? Especially if McD was heading towards being defunct anyway?
Opus99 wrote:Everybody talks about the McD merger being the root cause of all this. Imagine how BAD mcD must have been to be the root cause of the rot of a company the size of Boeing.
Also can someone explain why Boeing felt the merger was necessary? Especially if McD was heading towards being defunct anyway?
LAX772LR wrote:Just so sad to see what Boeing's become.
They only deliver two pax plane products (737MAX and 787), both have been grounded multiple times, and IINM they both hold the narrowbody and widebody records for grounding, as well as the former with the all-time grounding record for a plane returned to service.
This company needs to be gutted and and cleaned out on EVERY executive and supervisory level.
mjoelnir wrote:Opus99 wrote:Everybody talks about the McD merger being the root cause of all this. Imagine how BAD mcD must have been to be the root cause of the rot of a company the size of Boeing.
Also can someone explain why Boeing felt the merger was necessary? Especially if McD was heading towards being defunct anyway?
I think that it is a bit of a myth, that the merger is directly responsible for a decline at Boeing. I could imagine a turning point was the moving of the Headquarters to Chicago. And that effect was not immediate. But after a while a that big geographical separation of Headquarters and design and production centers will get them out of step.
Airbus is here on a.net often accused of being to far distributed and looking at Mobil and Tianjin that may be true. But those two operations are tightly controlled assembly and outfitting stations only. The main production, design and decision making centers are in the same time zone, with the UK being on hour of, but not even an hour of flight time.
I assume the problem started with the amateurish outsourcing around the 787, the following relentless cost cutting and the reduction of quality control, a part of the cost cutting operation.
The merger was done to combine the military side of both companies, I assume to reduce competition.
PANAMsterdam wrote:It's time to de-McDonnell Douglas this company. Let someone from Boeing take control of Boeing.
SunsetLimited wrote:Is it safe to say that the last overall trouble free Boeing launch was the original 777 in the mid 90s? Whatever the culture was at that time - get back to that.
excalibur wrote:SunsetLimited wrote:Is it safe to say that the last overall trouble free Boeing launch was the original 777 in the mid 90s? Whatever the culture was at that time - get back to that.
I totally agree with this. The 777 is such a great and beautiful piece of engineering. Maybe the last true Boeing aircraft if I may say. This is the Boeing we love and we miss.
Opus99 wrote:Everybody talks about the McD merger being the root cause of all this. Imagine how BAD mcD must have been to be the root cause of the rot of a company the size of Boeing.
Also can someone explain why Boeing felt the merger was necessary? Especially if McD was heading towards being defunct anyway?