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Insertnamehere
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Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sat May 29, 2021 5:08 pm

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57294412

exposed himself to the female first officer in the cockpit and watched pornography on a laptop, prosecutors said.

As the Southwest Airlines flight continued, Haak engaged in further "inappropriate conduct" in the cockpit.

A judge in Maryland sentenced him to one year's probation and ordered him to pay a $5,000 (£3,500) fine.

The incident happened during a flight from Philadelphia International Airport to Orlando International Airport on 10 August 2020, the court heard.


Crazy this kind of thing happened and the pilot was able to (presumably) retire with full compensation. I wonder how often this sort of thing happens without being reported?
 
mcdu
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Pilot pleads guilty to exposing himself

Sat May 29, 2021 5:16 pm

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/ex-pilot-sentenced-for-exposing-himself-watching-porn-on-flight-from-philly/2830877/

In what type of work culture would anyone believe this is appropriate? Did this pilot decide after 20+ years that this was acceptable or had it been done in the past with no consequences. I do hope the retirement salutations that were quoted by the CEO in his defense were from a boiler plate form letter that is given to all retirees.
 
IAHWorldflyer
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sat May 29, 2021 5:17 pm

At the end of the article, it states that Southwest ceased paying his retirement benefits after they found out about the incident.
 
UPS757Pilot
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sat May 29, 2021 5:21 pm

Most interesting line from the article: "Haak was charged in Maryland because it was the state that the plane was flying over at the time."
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sat May 29, 2021 6:00 pm

I assume he kept his 401k but lost any flight benefits or retiree health insurance. What a dope.
 
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CrewBunk
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sat May 29, 2021 6:05 pm

We are reading about it here, as it occurred on an airplane.

But in reality, in what world, at any job, in any circumstance, at any time would this be considered acceptable behaviour? Honestly, what was the man thinking?
If you respond with a two page answer, obviously pre-prepared, I’m not going to bother reading it. Odds are, no one else is either!
 
11C
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sat May 29, 2021 6:13 pm

Insertnamehere wrote:
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57294412

exposed himself to the female first officer in the cockpit and watched pornography on a laptop, prosecutors said.

As the Southwest Airlines flight continued, Haak engaged in further "inappropriate conduct" in the cockpit.

A judge in Maryland sentenced him to one year's probation and ordered him to pay a $5,000 (£3,500) fine.

The incident happened during a flight from Philadelphia International Airport to Orlando International Airport on 10 August 2020, the court heard.


Crazy this kind of thing happened and the pilot was able to (presumably) retire with full compensation. I wonder how often this sort of thing happens without being reported?


I don’t claim to know the exact retirement benefits package at WN, but I know the main vehicle is a 401k. The 401k is owned by the employee, and funded by employer contributions. After retirement, I don’t think there would be any means for the company to take back the funding. Possibly, other post retirement benefits could be withheld. How such conduct ever finds its way into a cockpit is a total mystery to me, and I definitely have never seen anything even remotely approaching that level of stupidity.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sat May 29, 2021 6:46 pm

I think "lewd act" in the title needs to be pluralized.

Kids, don't try this at home, or especially not in an airplane.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
mcdu
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sat May 29, 2021 7:06 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
I assume he kept his 401k but lost any flight benefits or retiree health insurance. What a dope.


Flight benefits and perhaps retiree health insurance is all I suspect he gets from SWA. This doesn’t cost SWA much except the publicity of the incident. I have already read of victim shaming by SWA pilots on another forum. Even alluding to the identity of the victim. These type of postings will only get those pilots in hot water. Just admit this was wrong and should never have happened.

In light of the stuck mic events this poor publicity
Last edited by mcdu on Sat May 29, 2021 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
orlandocfi
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sat May 29, 2021 7:12 pm

11C wrote:
Insertnamehere wrote:
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57294412

exposed himself to the female first officer in the cockpit and watched pornography on a laptop, prosecutors said.

As the Southwest Airlines flight continued, Haak engaged in further "inappropriate conduct" in the cockpit.

A judge in Maryland sentenced him to one year's probation and ordered him to pay a $5,000 (£3,500) fine.

The incident happened during a flight from Philadelphia International Airport to Orlando International Airport on 10 August 2020, the court heard.


Crazy this kind of thing happened and the pilot was able to (presumably) retire with full compensation. I wonder how often this sort of thing happens without being reported?


I don’t claim to know the exact retirement benefits package at WN, but I know the main vehicle is a 401k. The 401k is owned by the employee, and funded by employer contributions. After retirement, I don’t think there would be any means for the company to take back the funding. Possibly, other post retirement benefits could be withheld. How such conduct ever finds its way into a cockpit is a total mystery to me, and I definitely have never seen anything even remotely approaching that level of stupidity.


The guy most likely took one of the early-out offers last year, before this came to light. The early-out package guaranteed benefits and a paycheck until he turned 65. With the loss of that compensation package, I’m sure he still has a 401k that’s probably worth millions of dollars
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sat May 29, 2021 7:30 pm

Mike Haak. What a name for this offender.
 
mcdu
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sat May 29, 2021 8:05 pm

orlandocfi wrote:
11C wrote:
Insertnamehere wrote:
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57294412



Crazy this kind of thing happened and the pilot was able to (presumably) retire with full compensation. I wonder how often this sort of thing happens without being reported?


I don’t claim to know the exact retirement benefits package at WN, but I know the main vehicle is a 401k. The 401k is owned by the employee, and funded by employer contributions. After retirement, I don’t think there would be any means for the company to take back the funding. Possibly, other post retirement benefits could be withheld. How such conduct ever finds its way into a cockpit is a total mystery to me, and I definitely have never seen anything even remotely approaching that level of stupidity.


The guy most likely took one of the early-out offers last year, before this came to light. The early-out package guaranteed benefits and a paycheck until he turned 65. With the loss of that compensation package, I’m sure he still has a 401k that’s probably worth millions of dollars


Effectively he suffers few consequences if this is the case
 
UA444
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sat May 29, 2021 8:23 pm

Took cockpit a little bit too literally
 
Heinkel
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sat May 29, 2021 8:28 pm

Quote from the BBC article:

Haak was charged in Maryland because it was the state that the plane was flying over at the time. He pleaded guilty to intentionally committing a lewd, indecent or obscene act in a public place.


I find it a bit surprising, that they call the flight deck / cockpit of a commercial airliner a "public place". Didn't know that. It is not a private place but far from being accessible for the general public.
 
11C
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sat May 29, 2021 9:18 pm

orlandocfi wrote:
11C wrote:
Insertnamehere wrote:
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57294412



Crazy this kind of thing happened and the pilot was able to (presumably) retire with full compensation. I wonder how often this sort of thing happens without being reported?


I don’t claim to know the exact retirement benefits package at WN, but I know the main vehicle is a 401k. The 401k is owned by the employee, and funded by employer contributions. After retirement, I don’t think there would be any means for the company to take back the funding. Possibly, other post retirement benefits could be withheld. How such conduct ever finds its way into a cockpit is a total mystery to me, and I definitely have never seen anything even remotely approaching that level of stupidity.


The guy most likely took one of the early-out offers last year, before this came to light. The early-out package guaranteed benefits and a paycheck until he turned 65. With the loss of that compensation package, I’m sure he still has a 401k that’s probably worth millions of dollars


Exactly, he may have lost some peripheral benefits, but he’s probably financially intact. I’ll leave to others to comment on if that is just, or not.
 
Alias1024
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sat May 29, 2021 11:52 pm

Why does this feel like when the NTSB intern pulled a prank on reporters after Asiana 214?

His name is Mike Haak and he lives in a town called Longwood?
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
orlandocfi
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 12:03 am

Alias1024 wrote:
Why does this feel like when the NTSB intern pulled a prank on reporters after Asiana 214?

His name is Mike Haak and he lives in a town called Longwood?


The next “Very Special Episode” of The Simpsons is writing itself!
But seriously, good riddance to that weirdo. I really feel bad for the many crew members that were subjected to this freak.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 12:11 am

CrewBunk wrote:
We are reading about it here, as it occurred on an airplane.

But in reality, in what world, at any job, in any circumstance, at any time would this be considered acceptable behaviour? Honestly, what was the man thinking?


These people are sexually and emotionally defective and are not mature adults. This is nothing unusual - look at the MLB coach trying to expose his junk to female reporters, look at Matt Lauer, Harvey Weinstein, etc. Some men are defective enough to simply assume any random female wants to be part of their exhibitionist nonsense.

I am equally appalled by the total lack of professionalism. If you have weird interests, fine, but keep them out of the way of your job. Is five seconds of -whatever- worth losing a career over? Apparently for these freaks, it is.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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zeke
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 12:40 am

Heinkel wrote:
Quote from the BBC article:

Haak was charged in Maryland because it was the state that the plane was flying over at the time. He pleaded guilty to intentionally committing a lewd, indecent or obscene act in a public place.


I find it a bit surprising, that they call the flight deck / cockpit of a commercial airliner a "public place". Didn't know that. It is not a private place but far from being accessible for the general public.


A cockpit is not a public place, the law does not limit indecent exposure only in publicly accessible areas, you can be charged with indecent exposure in your own home or private vehicle. The test of the term public here means when in view of others. As he would have known he was in view of the FO, it meets the criteria. Being naked at home in your own bedroom with the curtains open is also indecent exposure in public as others can see you.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
Babyshark
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 12:59 am

zeke wrote:
Being naked at home in your own bedroom with the curtains open is also indecent exposure in public as others can see you.


But what if my windows are tinted?





Wait. I guess they’re not. Thought they were. This changes things.
 
Sokes
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 1:14 am

Revelation wrote:
Kids, don't try this at home

Kids don't listen.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 1:17 am

At the time there was a lot of denial and "let the facts come out" and such. Now they have. Clearly he had to be offered a deal to tell the "truth". That he tried to say it was a "consensual prank" with an FO that the court said he had never met before is pathetic. Doesn't reflect on Southwest, it just doesn't.

But it is interesting to see how sometimes people lose it, even after a lengthy career. Like that guy who just started screaming in the cockpit and really, seriously, had a mental breakdown. It wasn't something that had been going on for a while; it was a sudden cracking.
 
kiowa
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 1:29 am

I did not read the link but this is pretty old news if it is the same story.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texa ... 116437.php

Article says that Southwest fired the pilots.
 
orlandocfi
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 1:34 am

kiowa wrote:
I did not read the link but this is pretty old news if it is the same story.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texa ... 116437.php

Article says that Southwest fired the pilots.


That is old news, and a completely different event than the one being discussed in this thread.
 
FlyingMSY
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 1:35 am

kiowa wrote:
I did not read the link but this is pretty old news if it is the same story.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texa ... 116437.php

Article says that Southwest fired the pilots.


Interesting article. Definitely not the same though, since in this case the female FO was a witness to the public display, whereas that one it appears that both pilots showed a bit of skin to the FA.
 
Sokes
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 1:40 am

""It started as a consensual prank between me and the other pilot. I never imagined it would turn into this in a thousand years."

The pilot fully admits to the act. Why does nobody believe him?

I have a friend who hates women after making three bad experiences in a row. The first was with a female coworker. They sent each other dirt jokes. He sent her a joke in which a man says "I want to f... you in the a.. . Oh, I just see you are a woman. Never mind. "

He was fired. He went to court. At the court he argued that she earlier sent him following joke:
A family sits together in a car and sings "I want to f... you in the a.. .". It turns out it's an add for a language learning app.
The victim woman didn't deny sending that joke.
The female judge ruled that her joke was funny while his wasn't and that he is rightfully fired. Including the judge it's four bad experiences.

Before any further judgement is passed on the pilot I would like to know more about the female pilot. Is she known for dirty jokes/ suggesting pranks?

The supposed aggressor is 60. Any other female pilots have any stories to share? Hard to imagine somebody starts harassing women for the first time with 60, unless some organic brain damage happened.
Most likely it was a prank.
If it turns out that the female pilot is known for dirty jokes and languages, what to do with her?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
orlandocfi
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 1:57 am

Sokes wrote:
""It started as a consensual prank between me and the other pilot. I never imagined it would turn into this in a thousand years."

The pilot fully admits to the act. Why does nobody believe him?

I have a friend who hates women after making three bad experiences in a row. The first was with a female coworker. They sent each other dirt jokes. He sent her a joke in which a man says "I want to f... you in the a.. . Oh, I just see you are a woman. Never mind. "

He was fired. He went to court. At the court he argued that she earlier sent him following joke:
A family sits together in a car and sings "I want to f... you in the a.. .". It turns out it's an add for a language learning app.
The victim woman didn't deny sending that joke.
The female judge ruled that her joke was funny while his wasn't and that he is rightfully fired. Including the judge it's four bad experiences.

Before any further judgement is passed on the pilot I would like to know more about the female pilot. Is she known for dirty jokes/ suggesting pranks?

The supposed aggressor is 60. Any other female pilots have any stories to share? Hard to imagine somebody starts harassing women for the first time with 60, unless some organic brain damage happened.
Most likely it was a prank.
If it turns out that the female pilot is known for dirty jokes and languages, what to do with her?


Nobody believes his version probably because he has a history and this was the final straw. Airlines spend a lot of money on pilots and tend to give the benefit of the doubt...to a point.
Even if it were true, do you think he had no choice but to expose himself? He could have just kept it in his pants, end of story. It’s just one of many cautionary tales from the cockpit that professionalism is paramount.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 2:02 am

Sokes wrote:
""It started as a consensual prank between me and the other pilot. I never imagined it would turn into this in a thousand years."

The pilot fully admits to the act. Why does nobody believe him?

I have a friend who hates women after making three bad experiences in a row. The first was with a female coworker. They sent each other dirt jokes. He sent her a joke in which a man says "I want to f... you in the a.. . Oh, I just see you are a woman. Never mind. "

He was fired. He went to court. At the court he argued that she earlier sent him following joke:
A family sits together in a car and sings "I want to f... you in the a.. .". It turns out it's an add for a language learning app.
The victim woman didn't deny sending that joke.
The female judge ruled that her joke was funny while his wasn't and that he is rightfully fired. Including the judge it's four bad experiences.

Before any further judgement is passed on the pilot I would like to know more about the female pilot. Is she known for dirty jokes/ suggesting pranks?

The supposed aggressor is 60. Any other female pilots have any stories to share? Hard to imagine somebody starts harassing women for the first time with 60, unless some organic brain damage happened.
Most likely it was a prank.
If it turns out that the female pilot is known for dirty jokes and languages, what to do with her?


Just some quick HR 101 for you: 1. work history of both people involved would be investigated. 2. Whether the FO put him up to it or not, there is *NO* work-related reason to unzip pants and expose oneself in the cockpit, in the breakroom, in the lounge, in staff meeting room, in the cargo pit...do you get my drift? Can you find *any* logical connection between sexual behavior and performing paid duties operating an aircraft? No, because there is none.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
wjcandee
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 2:05 am

Sokes wrote:
""It started as a consensual prank between me and the other pilot. I never imagined it would turn into this in a thousand years."
The pilot fully admits to the act. Why does nobody believe him?


Because he never met her before. And because he didn't 'fess up when it happened and say that. He only admitted it to avoid trial and get probation, then immediately tried to deflect responsibility onto her by that statement. "I'm pleading guilty to this charge, but I didn't mean to do anything wrong; I thought what I did was okay; I'm not a bad person; it was consensual." You get it. That may be somebody who plead guilty, but it isn't somebody who has accepted responsibility or admitted that the act itself was wrong.
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 2:29 am

Scary to think an individual with such awful judgment was in command of 737s for decades. Glad he’s gone from the airline.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 3:37 am

Sokes wrote:
orlandocfi wrote:
Nobody believes his version probably because he has a history and this was the final straw. Airlines spend a lot of money on pilots and tend to give the benefit of the doubt...to a point.
...
It’s just one of many cautionary tales from the cockpit that professionalism is paramount.

Did he have a reputation for being a bit crazy or for harassing women?
There are a lot of cracked people in this world. And however cracked a man seem to appear to a sane bystander, there are plenty of women who like exactly that.

In the movie "The man with the iron heart" about Reinhard Heidrich a woman is interested in young Heidrich. Her friend warns her "Stay away from him if you want to stay healthy. " Or did she say sane? Anyway the other woman answers "And if that's exactly what I want? " or something like that.

Robin Norwood wrote a book about it, "Women who love too much".
There are women who like abusive or anyway mentally sick men. They do get healthy men at times. But they get bored and sex is more passionate with cracked men.

Nice summery:
https://youtu.be/uelHwf8o7_U

And then there are psychopath women who get easily bored. With a psychopath man and a psychopath women in the cockpit I would expect these type of pranks.

What I find confusing: I'm a supporter of eugenics. Pretty much everybody finds it outrageous. But then the same people get outraged if these type of stories happen.
Insane people must be allowed to live their nature AS LONG as they don't harras others.

I need more infos about the female pilot to pass judgement.

Obviously I agree that wanking in the cockpit is not a good idea. But then not everybody is equal.


None of this is relevant to the simple fact that nothing sexual has ANYTHING to do with the paid duties of safely operating an aircraft.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
jbs2886
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 4:56 am

Sokes wrote:
""It started as a consensual prank between me and the other pilot. I never imagined it would turn into this in a thousand years."

The pilot fully admits to the act. Why does nobody believe him?

I have a friend who hates women after making three bad experiences in a row. The first was with a female coworker. They sent each other dirt jokes. He sent her a joke in which a man says "I want to f... you in the a.. . Oh, I just see you are a woman. Never mind. "

He was fired. He went to court. At the court he argued that she earlier sent him following joke:
A family sits together in a car and sings "I want to f... you in the a.. .". It turns out it's an add for a language learning app.
The victim woman didn't deny sending that joke.
The female judge ruled that her joke was funny while his wasn't and that he is rightfully fired. Including the judge it's four bad experiences.

Before any further judgement is passed on the pilot I would like to know more about the female pilot. Is she known for dirty jokes/ suggesting pranks?

The supposed aggressor is 60. Any other female pilots have any stories to share? Hard to imagine somebody starts harassing women for the first time with 60, unless some organic brain damage happened.
Most likely it was a prank.
If it turns out that the female pilot is known for dirty jokes and languages, what to do with her?


Classic example of victim shaming. If she made dirty jokes it’s okay for the man to expose himself.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 6:10 am

Sokes wrote:

I have a friend who hates women after making three bad experiences in a row. The first was with a female coworker. They sent each other dirt jokes. He sent her a joke in which a man says "I want to f... you in the a.. . Oh, I just see you are a woman. Never mind. "

He was fired. He went to court. At the court he argued that she earlier sent him following joke:
A family sits together in a car and sings "I want to f... you in the a.. .". It turns out it's an add for a language learning app.
The victim woman didn't deny sending that joke.
The female judge ruled that her joke was funny while his wasn't and that he is rightfully fired. Including the judge it's four bad experiences.


I call BS. Let's see a citation to that ruling. Dollars to donuts there was a lot more involved your "friend" left out.
 
Sokes
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 7:43 am

jbs2886 wrote:
Classic example of victim shaming. If she made dirty jokes it’s okay for the man to expose himself.

I say it may have been sexual harassment or a prank. Without knowing anything about the woman and the preceding conversation I can't judge.
Is the flight recorder available?

You say you don't need to know anything about the woman. Women are always the victims.
It may surprise you, but some woman are sexually adventurous. Some people like to cross limits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_minutes_in_heaven

You may be right, you may be wrong about these two. But you sure are political correct.

Another question: is there a possibility that the woman can expect compensation or is it purely a criminal matter?

People who often flew with these pilots can have an opinion if it was probably sexual harassment. All others including myself can only have a moral opinion.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 8:03 am

Sokes wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Classic example of victim shaming. If she made dirty jokes it’s okay for the man to expose himself.

I say it may have been sexual harassment or a prank. Without knowing anything about the woman and the preceding conversation I can't judge.
Is the flight recorder available?

You say you don't need to know anything about the woman. Women are always the victims.
It may surprise you, but some woman are sexually adventurous. Some people like to cross limits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_minutes_in_heaven

You may be right, you may be wrong about these two. But you sure are political correct.

Another question: is there a possibility that the woman can expect compensation or is it purely a criminal matter?

People who often flew with these pilots can have an opinion if it was probably sexual harassment. All others including myself can only have a moral opinion.


Moral opinions are not relevant - employment issues are a legal, not moral matter. The employee either violated the company policy regarding professional conduct or he did not. Enough with the relativism.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Noshow
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 8:25 am

How can a crew work on as a team in a situation like that? It's unsafe and unprofessional. The captain's judgement is needed at any moment.
If for any reason a pilot cannot stay focused on the flight duties he should call in sick before takeoff and maybe get some help. This cannot be permitted to happen and it is not.
Last edited by Noshow on Sun May 30, 2021 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Sokes
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 8:31 am

Noshow wrote:
How can a crew work on as a team in a situation like that? It's unsafe and unprofessional. The captain's judgement is needed at any moment.

That position, which is also Aaron's, I understand. I only argued about the harassment part.
Maybe the airline needs to fix "no wanking!" boards in the cockpit.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 8:40 am

Sokes wrote:
Noshow wrote:
How can a crew work on as a team in a situation like that? It's unsafe and unprofessional. The captain's judgement is needed at any moment.

That position, which is also Aaron's, I understand. I only argued about the harassment part.
Maybe the airline needs to fix "no wanking!" boards in the cockpit.


I don’t understand the flippancy about why this matter is important. Crews are expected to show up ready to fly, and to do so professionally. There’s nothing else to consider.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Lilj4425
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 12:16 pm

So that’s why there was turbulence on that one flight.
 
Flflyer83
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 12:50 pm

Sokes wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Classic example of victim shaming. If she made dirty jokes it’s okay for the man to expose himself.

I say it may have been sexual harassment or a prank. Without knowing anything about the woman and the preceding conversation I can't judge.
Is the flight recorder available?

You say you don't need to know anything about the woman. Women are always the victims.
It may surprise you, but some woman are sexually adventurous. Some people like to cross limits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_minutes_in_heaven

You may be right, you may be wrong about these two. But you sure are political correct.

Another question: is there a possibility that the woman can expect compensation or is it purely a criminal matter?

People who often flew with these pilots can have an opinion if it was probably sexual harassment. All others including myself can only have a moral opinion.


Mike, that you? /s.

Seriously though, are you a pilot and have you done similar in the past? Lots of contorting things to try to make his actions ok and acceptable.
 
Noshow
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 1:15 pm

How should the First Officer have dealt with a situation like that? Say nothing? Let this go on forever?
I see this as more than sexual harassment -which is bad enough- but this is flight safety relevant.

Having said that if captain get's help and moves on normal I am all for a second chance.
Last edited by Noshow on Sun May 30, 2021 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
N292UX
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 1:25 pm

I remember hearing about a similar event happening on an Air Canada flight a few years back.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 1:28 pm

Sokes wrote:
Noshow wrote:
How can a crew work on as a team in a situation like that? It's unsafe and unprofessional. The captain's judgement is needed at any moment.

That position, which is also Aaron's, I understand. I only argued about the harassment part.
Maybe the airline needs to fix "no wanking!" boards in the cockpit.


If it is not obvious to male pilots that this behavior is unprofessional, than perhaps airlines should stop recruiting male pilots.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 2:01 pm

11C wrote:
orlandocfi wrote:
11C wrote:
I don’t claim to know the exact retirement benefits package at WN, but I know the main vehicle is a 401k. The 401k is owned by the employee, and funded by employer contributions. After retirement, I don’t think there would be any means for the company to take back the funding. Possibly, other post retirement benefits could be withheld. How such conduct ever finds its way into a cockpit is a total mystery to me, and I definitely have never seen anything even remotely approaching that level of stupidity.

The guy most likely took one of the early-out offers last year, before this came to light. The early-out package guaranteed benefits and a paycheck until he turned 65. With the loss of that compensation package, I’m sure he still has a 401k that’s probably worth millions of dollars

Exactly, he may have lost some peripheral benefits, but he’s probably financially intact. I’ll leave to others to comment on if that is just, or not.

I'm no lawyer, but now that he's admitted guilt in the criminal matter, he very well could be facing a civil suit from the victim.

The BBC link says:

US Magistrate Judge J Mark Coulson told Haak that his behaviour had had a traumatic effect on the first officer and could have affected the safety of passengers.

Seems like the basis for a "pain and suffering" lawsuit is in place.

Aaron747 wrote:
CrewBunk wrote:
We are reading about it here, as it occurred on an airplane.

But in reality, in what world, at any job, in any circumstance, at any time would this be considered acceptable behaviour? Honestly, what was the man thinking?


These people are sexually and emotionally defective and are not mature adults. This is nothing unusual - look at the MLB coach trying to expose his junk to female reporters, look at Matt Lauer, Harvey Weinstein, etc. Some men are defective enough to simply assume any random female wants to be part of their exhibitionist nonsense.

I am equally appalled by the total lack of professionalism. If you have weird interests, fine, but keep them out of the way of your job. Is five seconds of -whatever- worth losing a career over? Apparently for these freaks, it is.

Add Lamar Jackson to your list, google his name for details.

Sokes wrote:
""It started as a consensual prank between me and the other pilot. I never imagined it would turn into this in a thousand years."

The pilot fully admits to the act. Why does nobody believe him?

I have a friend who hates women after making three bad experiences in a row. The first was with a female coworker. They sent each other dirt jokes. He sent her a joke in which a man says "I want to f... you in the a.. . Oh, I just see you are a woman. Never mind. "

He was fired. He went to court. At the court he argued that she earlier sent him following joke:
A family sits together in a car and sings "I want to f... you in the a.. .". It turns out it's an add for a language learning app.
The victim woman didn't deny sending that joke.
The female judge ruled that her joke was funny while his wasn't and that he is rightfully fired. Including the judge it's four bad experiences.

Before any further judgement is passed on the pilot I would like to know more about the female pilot. Is she known for dirty jokes/ suggesting pranks?

The supposed aggressor is 60. Any other female pilots have any stories to share? Hard to imagine somebody starts harassing women for the first time with 60, unless some organic brain damage happened.
Most likely it was a prank.
If it turns out that the female pilot is known for dirty jokes and languages, what to do with her?

I see where you are coming from, but two wrongs don't make a right. You have to be clean, you can't expect a co-worker to cover for you. Maybe he feels badly done, but he gave them the ammo to shoot at him. Courts may have their biases, that's why you don't let it come to that.

One learns to just not make jokes at work, never mind exposing private parts. The places I've worked have had people of many different age groups, races, sexual orientations, ethnicities, cultures and of course both genders and whatever lies in between. The odds of stepping on someone's toes are just too high. I kinda have been lucky. I have said a few things in company settings that had some official and unofficial push back, but luckily nothing too serious. I try to learn from my mistakes, but in retrospect I should have been more careful. Whatever joke / comment I made wasn't worth risking my job over.

I've read a lot of posts on this forum from older pilots, and it seems the full reality of the current world just hasn't sunken in yet. I can see how a sixty year old pilot who has been with the same company for 27 years let the sky god complex make him feel he could do anything he wanted in the cockpit, including gettting naked and getting out a laptop and watching porn, then try to sluff it all off as a joke gone wrong.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
kiowa
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 2:58 pm

orlandocfi wrote:
kiowa wrote:
I did not read the link but this is pretty old news if it is the same story.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texa ... 116437.php

Article says that Southwest fired the pilots.


That is old news, and a completely different event than the one being discussed in this thread.



You are correct. I read the new link. It is a different episode. Interesting that the new episode is reported by the BBC on a US domestic carrier.
 
JibberJim
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 3:53 pm

kiowa wrote:
Interesting that the new episode is reported by the BBC on a US domestic carrier.


The BBC World Service is a global media organisation, it very specifically reports on lots of purely domestic activities for other countries, within this remit.
 
orlandocfi
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 3:57 pm

kiowa wrote:
orlandocfi wrote:
kiowa wrote:
I did not read the link but this is pretty old news if it is the same story.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texa ... 116437.php

Article says that Southwest fired the pilots.


That is old news, and a completely different event than the one being discussed in this thread.



You are correct. I read the new link. It is a different episode. Interesting that the new episode is reported by the BBC on a US domestic carrier.


It was widely reported in US media weeks ago, but his guilty plea and sentencing this week put it back in the spotlight. I’m sure Southwest has had just about enough of the media attention this week!
 
UA748i
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 11:53 pm

Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 4:02 pm

CrewBunk wrote:
We are reading about it here, as it occurred on an airplane.

But in reality, in what world, at any job, in any circumstance, at any time would this be considered acceptable behaviour? Honestly, what was the man thinking?


Apparently not with his big head, as it were.

Ive heard plenty of horror stories from the cockpit, but this one is just dumb.
 
Heinkel
Posts: 310
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Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 4:42 pm

zeke wrote:
Being naked at home in your own bedroom with the curtains open is also indecent exposure in public as others can see you.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm quite sure, that in Germany this is completely legal and the neighbors have to live with that.

My home is my castle.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3138
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Ex-Southwest pilot admits lewd act in cockpit mid-flight

Sun May 30, 2021 5:14 pm

Sokes wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Classic example of victim shaming. If she made dirty jokes it’s okay for the man to expose himself.

I say it may have been sexual harassment or a prank. Without knowing anything about the woman and the preceding conversation I can't judge.
Is the flight recorder available?

You say you don't need to know anything about the woman. Women are always the victims.
It may surprise you, but some woman are sexually adventurous. Some people like to cross limits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_minutes_in_heaven

You may be right, you may be wrong about these two. But you sure are political correct.

Another question: is there a possibility that the woman can expect compensation or is it purely a criminal matter?

People who often flew with these pilots can have an opinion if it was probably sexual harassment. All others including myself can only have a moral opinion.


He. Admitted. Guilt. But continue your victim blaming and claiming political correctness.

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