Sokes, dude, seriously? Your posts about your ''friend' who hates women are way too detailed and using wiki articles about the nature of women to excuse this pilot are concerning. There is no excuse for what was done, he admitted guilt and while I would hope nobody needs reminding, you cannot whip out your junk in the workplace. Period. I would also say that anyone who openly admits they hate women for any reason like your 'friend' should find a way to make a living where they won't have to work alongside women. Wiki articles about teen girls won't fly with HR or a judge.

Heinkel wrote:

zeke wrote:

Being naked at home in your own bedroom with the curtains open is also indecent exposure in public as others can see you.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm quite sure, that in Germany this is completely legal and the neighbors have to live with that.

My home is my castle.

No idea, incident occurred in the US, quoted US law.

I wonder how he felt having to explain this to his family and friends?

Unfortunately the piloting profession attracts some individuals who never learned remotely normal standards of behavior then had their bizarre views of self conduct further distorted by the ego boost that comes with the job


These individuals are basically children in an adult body, while a minority, they generally manage to stay just ‘within the lines’ but a few are hopeless cases like this idiot, he’s an embarrassment to the profession and i’m glad he’s gone


He should face criminal charges

Max Q wrote:

Unfortunately the piloting profession attracts some individuals who never learned remotely normal standards of behavior then had their bizarre views of self conduct further distorted by the ego boost that comes with the job


These individuals are basically children in an adult body, while a minority, they generally manage to stay just ‘within the lines’ but a few are hopeless cases like this idiot, he’s an embarrassment to the profession and i’m glad he’s gone


He should face criminal charges

100% agree.

jbs2886 wrote:

He. Admitted. Guilt. But continue your victim blaming and claiming political correctness.

I never blamed the victim. If it was a consensual prank there is, beside distraction in the cockpit, nobody to blame.
Should she however try to get compensation I may change my mind.
If it was not consensual I anyway agree with the harassment accusation. Is there a cockpit recording? If she said she doesn't like it my defense of his will immediately cease.

Nobody finds this strange that such accusations happen the first time with somebody age 60?

Only on an (admittedly stupid) act and without background information people want him to loose his licence, he should face criminal charges and best if he looses his health insurance (or was it pension?) .
This is a witch hunt. We don't know more about him and nothing at all about the woman. Without more information I don't support destroying somebody's life.
Be glad you are not born crazy as this guy.

And one more thing:
Assuming that guy is a psychopath who likes to do stupid pranks to fight his boredom:
Psychopaths can be very revengeful and they have no empathy nor feeling for right and wrong. And they get easily bored. You don't want such a guy to get anger against women. As long as psychopaths behave themselves more or less one better not interfere. And it is a very stupid idea to ruin such people financially.
Of course I can't know if he is a psychopath. But he is definitely not normal.

Aaron747 wrote:

Sokes wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

He. Admitted. Guilt. But continue your victim blaming and claiming political correctness.

I never blamed the victim. If it was a consensual prank there is, beside distraction in the cockpit, nobody to blame.
Should she however try to get compensation I may change my mind.
If it was not consensual I anyway agree with the harassment accusation. Is there a cockpit recording? If she said she doesn't like it my defense of his will immediately cease.

The company (and anybody else sane) doesn't care if she liked it or not. He. Unzipped. His. Pants. And. Watched. Porn. While. Flying. Notice which part of that sentence doesn't fit the rest. Not while at home. Not while bored in a hotel room. On the job. Operating a company aircraft. Being paid to fly. Whether it's bona fide harassment or not is missing the point entirely. He deserves to lose his benefits for not holding up his end of the contract. Are you aware of what responsibilities four stripes entail?

Well said

He must perform his duties. Staying focused and managing the crew not harassing it, is part of the job he is paid for.
Not doing it is unsafe. This is some inflight incident and different from some ground event.

I can’t believe I’m typing this, but as a woman there is no joke, jape, gag or prank that ends with a man slipping his dick out as a punchline. None. There’s no justification for doing this, ever, let alone in the cockpit of an aircraft. No woman is going to look over at the captain, see his dick out and laugh and exclaim ‘ you got me, good one!’

This incident is disturbing given the captains seeming disregard for where he was and what he was suppose to be doing. Now I’m going to assume this captain hasn’t got a history of this kind of stuff, because you’d never make captain. Assuming that, then his bizarre behaviour could be one of two things.

1. A health condition. I think (but am not sure) that something like early onset dementia could affect his inhibition control. That would explain why he thought it would be a good idea to expose himself on the flight deck then watch porn.

2. Mental break. The other thing could be just a break down. I’ve read over the years of crew cracking one day under the stress. Dive bombing the enemy while above Idaho, or biting the ankles of flight attendant while acting like a dog. So it’s not inconceivable to me that the captain just lost it.

However, those two reasons would be rare, and it still doesn’t change the fact that whipping it out on the flight deck, or any place of work isn’t appropriate.

Guess he was one of those vehemently against cameras watching the flight deck then...

KingOrGod wrote:

Guess he was one of those vehemently against cameras watching the flight deck then...

In this case the cockpit voice recorder would likely be damning enough.

But I suppose it really comes down to what one feels the purpose of a voice (or video) recording would be. Is it a tool to aid investigators solve an accident ..... or is it a means to solve “he said / she said” arguments or to give the voyeurs among us their jollies?

CrewBunk wrote:

KingOrGod wrote:

Guess he was one of those vehemently against cameras watching the flight deck then...

In this case the cockpit voice recorder would likely be damning enough.

But I suppose it really comes down to what one feels the purpose of a voice (or video) recording would be. Is it a tool to aid investigators solve an accident ..... or is it a means to solve “he said / she said” arguments or to give the voyeurs among us their jollies?

Purely for the purpose of investigation, and not this sort of thing nor for public consumption. However, as I say *again*, these are the sorts that would not approve of it just because of their perverted dispositions.

KingOrGod wrote:

Purely for the purpose of investigation, and not this sort of thing nor for public consumption. However, as I say *again*, these are the sorts that would not approve of it just because of their perverted dispositions.

Yes, purpose of investigation ... of an accident or incident .

It is the “public consumption” part that had a lot of people concerned about video recordings. There have been many many occurrences where these (voice or FDR) recordings were not used for their intended function.

In this case, I can’t see a video recording adding anything to what would be garnered from a voice recording. But ... imagine how dearly a social media or news outlet would love a copy of either a voice or video recording. It’s all about the clicks.

One could even send (no sound except ATC) live cockpit views to the passenger's IFE like some visual channel 9 sort of thing.It would add fun and fascination to have forward cockpit views watching people at work for you.

I'd be willing to bet that most pilots prefer not to be watched like animals at the zoo.

Sokes wrote:

""It started as a consensual prank between me and the other pilot. I never imagined it would turn into this in a thousand years."

The pilot fully admits to the act. Why does nobody believe him?

I have a friend who hates women after making three bad experiences in a row. The first was with a female coworker. They sent each other dirt jokes. He sent her a joke in which a man says "I want to f... you in the a.. . Oh, I just see you are a woman. Never mind. "

He was fired. He went to court. At the court he argued that she earlier sent him following joke:
A family sits together in a car and sings "I want to f... you in the a.. .". It turns out it's an add for a language learning app.
The victim woman didn't deny sending that joke.
The female judge ruled that her joke was funny while his wasn't and that he is rightfully fired. Including the judge it's four bad experiences.

Before any further judgement is passed on the pilot I would like to know more about the female pilot. Is she known for dirty jokes/ suggesting pranks?

The supposed aggressor is 60. Any other female pilots have any stories to share? Hard to imagine somebody starts harassing women for the first time with 60, unless some organic brain damage happened.
Most likely it was a prank.
If it turns out that the female pilot is known for dirty jokes and languages, what to do with her?

He should have claimed, it was training for manual trim-situations, like a runaway-stab or something...but wait, that would be pointless too

CrewBunk wrote:

Yes, purpose of investigation ... of an accident or incident .

I'm pretty sure something that happens in the cockpit that results in criminal conviction is an incident, the very action of the other witnesses being distracted and focusing on the illegal activity could affect the safety of operation, let alone of course the actual individual committing the act.

I'd be willing to bet that most pilots prefer not to be watched like animals at the zoo.

They'd share this cruel fate with bus drivers.
My point is it would make clear that this is sort of a public place for duty not some retreat where you do your private things.

For sokes, I’ve never read such incredibly victim shaming by someone not involved directly in an event? Are you Haak?, a swap pilot? Or perhaps the spokesman for SWAPA. Which by the way SWAPA has been quiet over this event and the “rolling coal” snafu. Where is the union saying they don’t support this type of behavior either? Crickets.

mcdu wrote:

For sokes, I’ve never read such incredibly victim shaming by someone not involved directly in an event? Are you Haak?, a swap pilot? Or perhaps the spokesman for SWAPA. Which by the way SWAPA has been quiet over this event and the “rolling coal” snafu. Where is the union saying they don’t support this type of behavior either? Crickets.

SWAPA knows this may not be an isolated incident.

Noshow wrote:

I'd be willing to bet that most pilots prefer not to be watched like animals at the zoo.

They'd share this cruel fate with bus drivers.
My point is it would make clear that this is sort of a public place for duty not some retreat where you do your private things.

And train drivers.

Max Q wrote:

Unfortunately the piloting profession attracts some individuals who never learned remotely normal standards of behavior then had their bizarre views of self conduct further distorted by the ego boost that comes with the job


These individuals are basically children in an adult body, while a minority, they generally manage to stay just ‘within the lines’ but a few are hopeless cases like this idiot, he’s an embarrassment to the profession and i’m glad he’s gone


He should face criminal charges

Kinda interesting he stayed with one company for 27 years and is 60 years of age. Suggests either he was very good at staying just within the lines or that it was a one-off incident. I guess we'll never know, but his explanation that this was just a joke that went too far is abominable, suggests he thinks he can get away with anything, doesn't have a good grip on what his responsibilities are, and should not be the captain of an airliner.

Revelation wrote:

Max Q wrote:

Unfortunately the piloting profession attracts some individuals who never learned remotely normal standards of behavior then had their bizarre views of self conduct further distorted by the ego boost that comes with the job


These individuals are basically children in an adult body, while a minority, they generally manage to stay just ‘within the lines’ but a few are hopeless cases like this idiot, he’s an embarrassment to the profession and i’m glad he’s gone


He should face criminal charges

Kinda interesting he stayed with one company for 27 years and is 60 years of age. Suggests either he was very good at staying just within the lines or that it was a one-off incident. I guess we'll never know, but his explanation that this was just a joke that went too far is abominable, suggests he thinks he can get away with anything, doesn't have a good grip on what his responsibilities are, and should not be the captain of an airliner.

This is what I believe to be most interesting aspect. Him saying it was a prank minimizes his actions and shames the victim by not accepting this as a prank. In my own opinion I highly suspect this was not the first time he had done this, this was just the first time there was enough evidence to substantiate what his actions were. Would make for a great investigative story on his career before he was caught.

I think that it is safe to say that pulling your dick out in the office and then sitting watching porn on your laptop would mean instant termination.

Not sure about US law, but Indecent Exposure charges would also follow.

There is no excuse for behavior like that. And there is no way a prank gone wrong can make this acceptable.

Again if he returns to normal I am for a second chance.

A "prank?" In what universe would exposing yourself to somebody else AT WORK be considered a "prank?"

mcdu wrote:

This is what I believe to be most interesting aspect. Him saying it was a prank minimizes his actions and shames the victim by not accepting this as a prank. In my own opinion I highly suspect this was not the first time he had done this, this was just the first time there was enough evidence to substantiate what his actions were. Would make for a great investigative story on his career before he was caught.

I see this all the time in on-line interaction.

Person 1 says something malicious or offensive.

Person 2 calls them out on it.

Person 1 says relax, it was just a joke.

Now Person 2 either has to accept that lame excuse or push back then get called out for not having a sense of humor.

Person 1 avoids accountability for their malicious or offensive act, deflects it by making it about Person 2's ability to take a joke or not.

Lots of peer pressure to de-escalate confrontation often aids Person 1's continued bad behavior.

My move is to ignore peer pressure and go hard at Person 1's lack of comedic talent and deal with any blow back that may result.

Revelation wrote:

mcdu wrote:

This is what I believe to be most interesting aspect. Him saying it was a prank minimizes his actions and shames the victim by not accepting this as a prank. In my own opinion I highly suspect this was not the first time he had done this, this was just the first time there was enough evidence to substantiate what his actions were. Would make for a great investigative story on his career before he was caught.

I see this all the time in on-line interaction.

Person 1 says something malicious or offensive.

Person 2 calls them out on it.

Person 1 says relax, it was just a joke.

Now Person 2 either has to accept that lame excuse or push back then get called out for not having a sense of humor.

Person 1 avoids accountability for their malicious or offensive act, deflects it by making it about Person 2's ability to take a joke or not.

Lots of peer pressure to de-escalate confrontation often aids Person 1's continued bad behavior.

My move is to ignore peer pressure and go hard at Person 1's lack of comedic talent and deal with any blow back that may result.

Thank you for that insightful post. Aviation is really a large and dysfunctional family, so we tend to mask “unsavory” behavior or look the other way until it becomes too egregious to tolerate. And that point is often far beyond what most reasonable people would tolerate!