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qf789
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New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon May 31, 2021 8:14 pm

Welcome to New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021. Please continue to add your comments below

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1460407&p=22811945#p22811945
 
a7ala
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon May 31, 2021 8:20 pm

On the discussion about battery aircraft:

Good progress is being made on the Sounds Air/Wellington Airport collaboration with the ES-19 due to be in service by 2026 according to below article. Would be able to cover all the S8 flying NSN/BHE/PCN-WLG I would imagine with 19-seats.

https://www.soundsair.com/2020/10/Sound ... n-Flights/

Its a start...
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon May 31, 2021 10:07 pm

NZ516 wrote:
There is a few more potential routes they could consider for a Regional jet, if you add in the International ones as well. So a fleet could grow to 12 or more in a major expansion plan.
So Domestic
AKL IVC twice daily replacing the single 320
AKL NSN
CHC ROT
CHC ZQN
CHC HLZ
ZQN HLZ
WLG HLZ
Plus International
AKL CBR daily
AKL NTL
AKL TSV
AKL DRW
AKL CNS off peak season
AKL MCY same
AKL HBA daily

All Australian state capitals will have a service to AKL NZs largest city and main hub


Is there any data to support this or is it just joining two cities that "seem about right"?

One thing that needs to be considered in all of this is frequency, regions and the business market demand it. Then the big question is around supply, demand and yield.

Domestically you listed a couple of potential candidates, AKL-NSN, HLZ-WLG for example. Ultimately, I'd ask the question. What problem would the regional jet be trying to solve?

If you look at HLZ-WLG as an example, you have 0600, 0720 at 0810 peak services. So a single frame could operate the 0720-0835 for example, but after a 25minute turn it's almost now operating at off peak Yes you could run it on the 0600 but that's very early and not the most popular time. The 0810 is even later and yes, you could of course retime it altogether but it would only be earlier which won't be as appealing and nothing really changes for the following sector anyway.

So by midmorning you'd be looking at utilizing it on those longer ATR sectors I'd assume. But the A/C is first in WLG. So maybe a WLG-ROT sector but that'd largely be a empty repositioning flight as that route barely manages 3x Q300. Then operate a reasonably low yield ROT-CHC sector. I completely get the CX would be improved but that in itself won't grow the market, you could grow it via available seats and lower fares but the market reacts better to frequency, a 3rd direct ATR would likely have more positive outcomes.

Yes, you could run it WLG-CHC then CHC-ROT-CHC and that wouldn't be as bad. But the WLG-CHC sectors are the expensive as the A320 could serve these better.

Ultimately - there's a sacrifice wherever you look. Like I said yesterday. You'd need a reasonably small fleet, 4-6 aircraft at a guess. The cost to carry that on your books would be a hard business case to sell.

Oh, international. AKL-CBR, there is almost no market. AKL-NTL, that's primarily Aussies flying here on holiday. Best left with VA who have a customer base. AKL-DRW, there is no market full stop.

AKL-MCY: Maybe but hardly worth the effort.
AKL-HBA: Let's see what unfolds. It's still very new.
AKL-CNS: Highly seasonal. Off season there's just no need to fly there. On season, could NZ make better use of the A320 and add frequency in lieu of widebodies as they have in previous seasons.

So you're left with maybe 3 fringe routes at best, is that worth the risk and investment?

I'm not against regional jets at all. I'd love them. I just don't see enough use for them. Our second tier airports, PMR, NSN, ROT etc just don't have the population and passenger numbers to support them with an "AND" approach to frequency. So given sector lengths are all sub 2 hours and frequency is the underling rule I can't see it working.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:42 am

Good points there NZ6
A Cheaper option would be to wet lease in Regional jets like what Qantas is doing with Alliance as they have a large fleet coming in. To purchase brand new aircraft to start new routes is very risky business decision I agree.
Some of those routes do have demand you paint it very black and they would be stimulated with a non stop service. The AKL to CNS route was a year round service for over 20 years before turning into a winter seasonal one. It's Still a year round service from all the Aust domestic centers so demand can't be zero.
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:20 am

Would an ATR HLZ-ZQN be that bad? Surely it would only be around 2hr30 flying time. Thats still faster than transiting WLG or CHC.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:01 am

77west wrote:
Would an ATR HLZ-ZQN be that bad? Surely it would only be around 2hr30 flying time. Thats still faster than transiting WLG or CHC.


What is really in question is possibly the specification of the flight catering domestically, not the aircraft type. Personally, I think a limited buy onboard option (things that don't need refrigeration onboard) could be made available on domestic flights over 90min. I have flown 2h15min on a Q400, but it wasn't really an issue with B-O-B catering. As I understand it, NZ is already in the process of reviewing catering standards.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:58 am

NZ516 wrote:
Good points there NZ6
A Cheaper option would be to wet lease in Regional jets like what Qantas is doing with Alliance as they have a large fleet coming in. To purchase brand new aircraft to start new routes is very risky business decision I agree.
Some of those routes do have demand you paint it very black and they would be stimulated with a non stop service. The AKL to CNS route was a year round service for over 20 years before turning into a winter seasonal one. It's Still a year round service from all the Aust domestic centers so demand can't be zero.


The day will come I'm sure. Is it now, I don't believe so.

Personally, I'd love to see regional jets. I just can't get my head around how the airline would get the board over the line or why they'd try. Especially given the "loan" they're going to have to pay off.

It's high risk low reward stuff. They ATR-600's are new(ish) and can do what the proposed 'flash' alterative can. There's very few routes where two ATR's within a short time on the same run to meet demand (if there were one would argue for a A320 anyway) nor enough routes where NZ can charge what they want when they want - implying supply is well short of demand. (Although those in the regions would try tell you otherwise).

As for CNS, don't be fooled by operating there for 20 years. They've done all sorts of things in the past which we'd scratch our heads at today. Summer in Tropical North Queensland is awful. Extremely hot, very high humidity and lots of rain. It's not sit round the pool weather, nor the time for a walk in the Daintree, the beaches are crocodile infested. Of course the reef is simply amazing and plenty are happy to take their chances with the weather which is why tourism does exist year round. But for NZ, it's a hard sell and therefore done at low prices and becomes.... to point it bluntly. Pointless.

Besides, the P.I is also in low season so competing with cheaper prices there in many cases.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:07 am

77west wrote:
Would an ATR HLZ-ZQN be that bad? Surely it would only be around 2hr30 flying time. Thats still faster than transiting WLG or CHC.


I don't believe so, compare these two photos.


 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:28 am

CNS used to drop away every low season to loads that make HBA look good. This trend continued with PR when they operated AKL-CNS-MNL
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:27 am

aerorobnz wrote:
CNS used to drop away every low season to loads that make HBA look good. This trend continued with PR when they operated AKL-CNS-MNL


CNS had a weekly year round for years in the 1990s usually 763s but 747s in the later 1990s early 2000s even in summer some years, a second flight was added atleast in winter before 2004 when the A320 first flew the route, it gradually increased with the A320 to 3-4 weekly with some flights on 763s 772s but less in summer maybe 2 weekly.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:47 am

Can someone update me on which Air NZ regional destinations have crew bases.

In the past when an aircraft overnighted the crew that flew in that evening also did the first flight out in the morning. From memory that was about an 11h 30m interval. Later when two aircraft of the same type overnighted the crew on the last flight in did the second one out, so the interval between the last flight in and the first flight out was reduced. Later again there were some regional crew bases that eliminated the need for crew overnighting, as they just went home. I recall some controversy a few years ago when the NPE Q300 crew base was closed and wondered if there is now an ATR crew base there. More recently there have been schedule changes that have ATRs and Q300s arriving later in the evening (2030ish) and departing earlier in the morning (0600ish). And there are 320s overnighting at DUD, ZQN, and for a while IVC with similar schedules. I wondered if crew are positioned to some destinations the day before to take the first flight out.

PA515
 
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SelandiaBaru
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:10 am

PA515 wrote:
Can someone update me on which Air NZ regional destinations have crew bases.


AKL - ATR/Q300
TRG - ATR/Q300
NPL - Q300
NPE - ATR
WLG - ATR/Q300
NSN - ATR/Q300
CHC - ATR/Q300

Things change all the time but there is a mix of min-rest overnights, slip-crewing and extended overnights to facilitate the expanded operating hours from what it used to be when most overnights used to be min-rest.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:21 am

SelandiaBaru wrote:
PA515 wrote:
Can someone update me on which Air NZ regional destinations have crew bases.


AKL - ATR/Q300
TRG - ATR/Q300
NPL - Q300
NPE - ATR
WLG - ATR/Q300
NSN - ATR/Q300
CHC - ATR/Q300

Things change all the time but there is a mix of min-rest overnights, slip-crewing and extended overnights to facilitate the expanded operating hours from what it used to be when most overnights used to be min-rest.


Thanks SelandiaBaru.
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:27 am

NZ6 wrote:
77west wrote:
Would an ATR HLZ-ZQN be that bad? Surely it would only be around 2hr30 flying time. Thats still faster than transiting WLG or CHC.


I don't believe so, compare these two photos.




The ATR actually appears more spacious in that picture which is interesting. On flights under 4~ hours I personally don't really notice a difference between 2-2, 2-3, or 3-3 seating as the seats are pretty much the same. I was meaning the speed, 2.5hr on an ATR HLZ-ZQN is around 66% the way to AU on an A320. Will this be acceptable is the question.
 
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V60Polestar
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:24 pm

Anyone keen in this Hamilton startup with 'fewer than two' employees?

https://www.smergers.com/business/newly ... and/jt71x/
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:38 am

V60Polestar wrote:
Anyone keen in this Hamilton startup with 'fewer than two' employees?

https://www.smergers.com/business/newly ... and/jt71x/


Sure where do I send my bitcoin. Lol.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:11 am

V60Polestar wrote:
Anyone keen in this Hamilton startup with 'fewer than two' employees?

https://www.smergers.com/business/newly ... and/jt71x/


$12m for a 49% stake - I'd love to see the Business Plan.

Sounds like a high school project.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:39 am

NZ6 wrote:
V60Polestar wrote:
Anyone keen in this Hamilton startup with 'fewer than two' employees?

https://www.smergers.com/business/newly ... and/jt71x/


$12m for a 49% stake - I'd love to see the Business Plan.

Sounds like a high school project.

Surely not another Ewen Wilson initiative?
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:50 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Surely not another Ewen Wilson initiative?


I'd hope not, any airline attached with his name is surely destined to fail as many people know of his previous failures - in this climate of low travelling consumer confidence that's a death knell for a startup. At least a totally new outfit would be free to walk a new path.

It seems a crazy time for a startup but lease rates will be low, existing markets cut for the foreseeable, competition without funds to be predatory and plenty of industry employees looking to get reemployed in the industry. It's a high-risk strategy in an unpredictable sector but maybe better now than in a few years when the big airlines have refound their mojo and their cash reserves.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:20 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
CNS used to drop away every low season to loads that make HBA look good. This trend continued with PR when they operated AKL-CNS-MNL


CNS had a weekly year round for years in the 1990s usually 763s but 747s in the later 1990s early 2000s even in summer some years, a second flight was added atleast in winter before 2004 when the A320 first flew the route, it gradually increased with the A320 to 3-4 weekly with some flights on 763s 772s but less in summer maybe 2 weekly.


You are good at record keeping. Cairns started in 1987 with 767s and was on the cover of the timetable at the time. I'm not sure when it was down graded to winter seasonal around 2025 ish. What is interesting is that Qantas will start CNS to AKL before resuming PER to AKL!
They also flew a weekly CNS to CHC service briefly many years ago. Will be interesting to see if QF can make CNS AKL a permanent route.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:27 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
V60Polestar wrote:
Anyone keen in this Hamilton startup with 'fewer than two' employees?

https://www.smergers.com/business/newly ... and/jt71x/


$12m for a 49% stake - I'd love to see the Business Plan.

Sounds like a high school project.

Surely not another Ewen Wilson initiative?


It's more likely a teenager behind it. The spelling gave it away to me. With Aircrafts not aircraft used for the plural in the add. A very basic sketch used too. Probably better to invest with Mike Pero than this lot. A least he has a robust plan.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:59 pm

Air NZ will help out the South Canterbury region by adding an extra return service between WLG and TIU. Fares are reasonable at just $100 the extra services will operate for 6 days.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU2106/ ... floods.htm
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:31 pm

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
CNS used to drop away every low season to loads that make HBA look good. This trend continued with PR when they operated AKL-CNS-MNL


CNS had a weekly year round for years in the 1990s usually 763s but 747s in the later 1990s early 2000s even in summer some years, a second flight was added atleast in winter before 2004 when the A320 first flew the route, it gradually increased with the A320 to 3-4 weekly with some flights on 763s 772s but less in summer maybe 2 weekly.


You are good at record keeping. Cairns started in 1987 with 767s and was on the cover of the timetable at the time. I'm not sure when it was down graded to winter seasonal around 2025 ish. What is interesting is that Qantas will start CNS to AKL before resuming PER to AKL!
They also flew a weekly CNS to CHC service briefly many years ago. Will be interesting to see if QF can make CNS AKL a permanent route.


I do remember stuff like old schedules, yes I believe QF had short lived CNS-CHC at some point. CNS-AKL is leisure oriented which is where the market is more atm like OOL where hopefully they can stimulate demand. PER not quite so much I guess. Personally I think CNS/OOL will last until things rebound for QF the aircraft go where yields are higher and these routes to JQ
 
zkeoj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:02 am

a7ala wrote:
On the discussion about battery aircraft:

Good progress is being made on the Sounds Air/Wellington Airport collaboration with the ES-19 due to be in service by 2026 according to below article. Would be able to cover all the S8 flying NSN/BHE/PCN-WLG I would imagine with 19-seats.

https://www.soundsair.com/2020/10/Sound ... n-Flights/

Its a start...


And Harbour Air: https://www.harbourair.com/about/corpor ... gelectric/

We are talking the small aircraft replacements at this stage (even former B1900D routes?), but it certainly won't be decades away....
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:29 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

CNS had a weekly year round for years in the 1990s usually 763s but 747s in the later 1990s early 2000s even in summer some years, a second flight was added atleast in winter before 2004 when the A320 first flew the route, it gradually increased with the A320 to 3-4 weekly with some flights on 763s 772s but less in summer maybe 2 weekly.


You are good at record keeping. Cairns started in 1987 with 767s and was on the cover of the timetable at the time. I'm not sure when it was down graded to winter seasonal around 2025 ish. What is interesting is that Qantas will start CNS to AKL before resuming PER to AKL!
They also flew a weekly CNS to CHC service briefly many years ago. Will be interesting to see if QF can make CNS AKL a permanent route.


I do remember stuff like old schedules, yes I believe QF had short lived CNS-CHC at some point. CNS-AKL is leisure oriented which is where the market is more atm like OOL where hopefully they can stimulate demand. PER not quite so much I guess. Personally I think CNS/OOL will last until things rebound for QF the aircraft go where yields are higher and these routes to JQ

Yep, the old schedules do tend to stick in a retrievable part of the brain. My recollection is that the QF CHC-CNS services were twice weekly - and used a 747. I always assumed it was at least in part away of positioning or rotating the QF 747s that used to serve CNS-HNL-LAX. It always seemed bizarre that CHC could warrant such capacity to a destination like CNS.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:28 am

DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

You are good at record keeping. Cairns started in 1987 with 767s and was on the cover of the timetable at the time. I'm not sure when it was down graded to winter seasonal around 2025 ish. What is interesting is that Qantas will start CNS to AKL before resuming PER to AKL!
They also flew a weekly CNS to CHC service briefly many years ago. Will be interesting to see if QF can make CNS AKL a permanent route.


I do remember stuff like old schedules, yes I believe QF had short lived CNS-CHC at some point. CNS-AKL is leisure oriented which is where the market is more atm like OOL where hopefully they can stimulate demand. PER not quite so much I guess. Personally I think CNS/OOL will last until things rebound for QF the aircraft go where yields are higher and these routes to JQ

Yep, the old schedules do tend to stick in a retrievable part of the brain. My recollection is that the QF CHC-CNS services were twice weekly - and used a 747. I always assumed it was at least in part away of positioning or rotating the QF 747s that used to serve CNS-HNL-LAX. It always seemed bizarre that CHC could warrant such capacity to a destination like CNS.


What years was that you reakon? I recall AKL-CNS on a 747 around 1996/97, CNS-AKL was a redeye and arrived around 0530 left at 0700, CNS got a fair few QF 747s back then to NRT/NGO/KIX aswell on the classics.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:50 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

I do remember stuff like old schedules, yes I believe QF had short lived CNS-CHC at some point. CNS-AKL is leisure oriented which is where the market is more atm like OOL where hopefully they can stimulate demand. PER not quite so much I guess. Personally I think CNS/OOL will last until things rebound for QF the aircraft go where yields are higher and these routes to JQ

Yep, the old schedules do tend to stick in a retrievable part of the brain. My recollection is that the QF CHC-CNS services were twice weekly - and used a 747. I always assumed it was at least in part away of positioning or rotating the QF 747s that used to serve CNS-HNL-LAX. It always seemed bizarre that CHC could warrant such capacity to a destination like CNS.


What years was that you reakon? I recall AKL-CNS on a 747 around 1996/97, CNS-AKL was a redeye and arrived around 0530 left at 0700, CNS got a fair few QF 747s back then to NRT/NGO/KIX aswell on the classics.

Sorry, I’m away from home ATM and don’t have recourse to old timetables (though I’m not sure it figures in anything I have anyway).
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:14 am

DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Yep, the old schedules do tend to stick in a retrievable part of the brain. My recollection is that the QF CHC-CNS services were twice weekly - and used a 747. I always assumed it was at least in part away of positioning or rotating the QF 747s that used to serve CNS-HNL-LAX. It always seemed bizarre that CHC could warrant such capacity to a destination like CNS.


What years was that you reakon? I recall AKL-CNS on a 747 around 1996/97, CNS-AKL was a redeye and arrived around 0530 left at 0700, CNS got a fair few QF 747s back then to NRT/NGO/KIX aswell on the classics.

Sorry, I’m away from home ATM and don’t have recourse to old timetables (though I’m not sure it figures in anything I have anyway).


Right, I do enjoy departedflights, AKL in 1980 had only a few airlines serving it but included BA, UT, CO, PA then QF, SQ maybe FJ and that’s about it.

There was a TSV-AKL weekly 747 In 1983 still operated weekly in 1989 also with a CNS service on 767s. QF ran ADL-AKL weekly in 1983 on a 747 as did BA.
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:48 am

I thought all the NZ 772 were in storage, this video released on the 1st seems to indicate otherwise?

https://youtu.be/LL-xPU1YQMU?t=214
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:27 am

77west wrote:
I thought all the NZ 772 were in storage, this video released on the 1st seems to indicate otherwise?

https://youtu.be/LL-xPU1YQMU?t=214


That’s just a compilation, looking at some of the flights like EK from KUL which they have done during COVID, but that is shot over a period of time, NZ 772s won’t be seen ever again, last one left over 6-7 months ago. Nice video.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:52 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
There was a TSV-AKL weekly 747 In 1983 still operated weekly in 1989 also with a CNS service on 767s. QF ran ADL-AKL weekly in 1983 on a 747 as did BA.

Interesting. I was aware that QF operated AKL-TSV-SIN with a 767 at one point, but wasn’t aware of a 747 service.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:57 am

NZ6 wrote:
Personally, I'd love to see regional jets. I just can't get my head around how the airline would get the board over the line or why they'd try. Especially given the "loan" they're going to have to pay off.

The government has the option to convert the loan to a capital investment. Any clues as to whether this is a real prospect?
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:21 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
There was a TSV-AKL weekly 747 In 1983 still operated weekly in 1989 also with a CNS service on 767s. QF ran ADL-AKL weekly in 1983 on a 747 as did BA.

Interesting. I was aware that QF operated AKL-TSV-SIN with a 767 at one point, but wasn’t aware of a 747 service.


Also QF ran a AKL TSV DRW SIN 767-200 service which enabled access direct from NZ to the NT for the first time.
 
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V60Polestar
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:35 pm

I just saw an interesting feature on NZ Civil Aircraft this morning...
Cessna 208B ZK-MCS to be converted into an autonomous freighter prototype by Merlin Labs NZ (second photo from the top, not much has been done aside from the addition of Merlin Labs titles).

http://nzcivair.blogspot.com/2021/06/tr ... south.html

On another note, I saw on 3rd Level NZ that despite retirement from passenger service, it seems that the Convair 580 is now being used to transport lambs. Steve gave a pretty good quote from Tim Gorman: "It's a little known fact that Noah before he built the Ark, was trying to source a Convair 580, but had no luck, so he committed to building the Ark."

Convairs sure do seem to be unkillable.

http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2021/06/ ... rvice.html
 
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V60Polestar
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:36 pm

Also, on the topic of Tasman routes, what routes did Australian Airlines fly here, if any? And what about Jetstar's A330 routes. I only know of AKL-SIN myself.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:14 pm

V60Polestar wrote:
Also, on the topic of Tasman routes, what routes did Australian Airlines fly here, if any? And what about Jetstar's A330 routes. I only know of AKL-SIN myself.


I don’t recall Australian airlines flying to NZ, you are talking about the Orange 763d around early mid 2000s? If so their 763s did return to QF still in Australian colours for a few months at least and flee to AKL in those colours.

JQ A330s, pretty sure was only AKL-SIN which started daily but dropped to 3-4 weekly pretty quickly before being pulled, I think it ran 2011-13
 
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V60Polestar
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:40 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
V60Polestar wrote:
Also, on the topic of Tasman routes, what routes did Australian Airlines fly here, if any? And what about Jetstar's A330 routes. I only know of AKL-SIN myself.


I don’t recall Australian airlines flying to NZ, you are talking about the Orange 763d around early mid 2000s? If so their 763s did return to QF still in Australian colours for a few months at least and flee to AKL in those colours.

JQ A330s, pretty sure was only AKL-SIN which started daily but dropped to 3-4 weekly pretty quickly before being pulled, I think it ran 2011-13


Ah ok that makes sense, cheers
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:24 am

V60Polestar wrote:
Also, on the topic of Tasman routes, what routes did Australian Airlines fly here, if any? And what about Jetstar's A330 routes. I only know of AKL-SIN myself.


There was Trans Australian Airlines that later became Australian airlines it flew the Boeing 727 to CHC from Hobart back in the 1980s.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:04 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

I do remember stuff like old schedules, yes I believe QF had short lived CNS-CHC at some point. CNS-AKL is leisure oriented which is where the market is more atm like OOL where hopefully they can stimulate demand. PER not quite so much I guess. Personally I think CNS/OOL will last until things rebound for QF the aircraft go where yields are higher and these routes to JQ

Yep, the old schedules do tend to stick in a retrievable part of the brain. My recollection is that the QF CHC-CNS services were twice weekly - and used a 747. I always assumed it was at least in part away of positioning or rotating the QF 747s that used to serve CNS-HNL-LAX. It always seemed bizarre that CHC could warrant such capacity to a destination like CNS.


What years was that you reakon? I recall AKL-CNS on a 747 around 1996/97, CNS-AKL was a redeye and arrived around 0530 left at 0700, CNS got a fair few QF 747s back then to NRT/NGO/KIX aswell on the classics.


I flew it around this time - might have been 1998 - QF 747-300. You are spot on about the timing - red-eye to AKL.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:52 am

NZ516 wrote:
Also QF ran a AKL TSV DRW SIN 767-200 service which enabled access direct from NZ to the NT for the first time.

Ah yes; I’d forgotten about the DRW stop. Thanks.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:04 am

NZ516 wrote:
V60Polestar wrote:
Also, on the topic of Tasman routes, what routes did Australian Airlines fly here, if any? And what about Jetstar's A330 routes. I only know of AKL-SIN myself.


There was Trans Australian Airlines that later became Australian airlines it flew the Boeing 727 to CHC from Hobart back in the 1980s.

I’m not aware that TAA actually wanted to fly HBA-CHC, but their counterpart and nemesis Ansett wanted to fly internationally, but was for a long time refused on the basis that the Australian government’s policy was that Qantas should have a monopoly on all international air routes flown by Aussie airlines. The government eventually relented and allowed Ansett HBA-CHC, and because of the domestic “two-airline” policy of the time, TAA followed suit. Alas, some years before I started visiting HBA. When Ansett and TAA gave up the route, NZ took it over with a weekly 737-200 service (twice weekly some summers). This was the only Tasman route NZ ever flew regularly with the -200 (though I’m aware of an AKL-SYD-AKL substitution that was flown with one in 1997).
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:42 am

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Also QF ran a AKL TSV DRW SIN 767-200 service which enabled access direct from NZ to the NT for the first time.

Ah yes; I’d forgotten about the DRW stop. Thanks.


http://www.departedflights.com/AKL83p1.html

Looking at departed flights, that flight was operating weekly with a 747 in July 1983, it wasn't operating in March 1980, by January 1989 it was running with a 767 as a redeye TSV-AKL once a week.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:48 am

NZ321 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Yep, the old schedules do tend to stick in a retrievable part of the brain. My recollection is that the QF CHC-CNS services were twice weekly - and used a 747. I always assumed it was at least in part away of positioning or rotating the QF 747s that used to serve CNS-HNL-LAX. It always seemed bizarre that CHC could warrant such capacity to a destination like CNS.


What years was that you reakon? I recall AKL-CNS on a 747 around 1996/97, CNS-AKL was a redeye and arrived around 0530 left at 0700, CNS got a fair few QF 747s back then to NRT/NGO/KIX aswell on the classics.


I flew it around this time - might have been 1998 - QF 747-300. You are spot on about the timing - red-eye to AKL.


http://www.departedflights.com/AKL96p1.html

I remember the Saturday 767, shows as the only flight in October 1996. I don't think the 747 lasted long for QF on CNS-AKL maybe a year or so, as David said they possibly had a spare 747 in CNS so used it to AKL and earlier CHC.
 
Unclekoru
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:14 am

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
V60Polestar wrote:
Also, on the topic of Tasman routes, what routes did Australian Airlines fly here, if any? And what about Jetstar's A330 routes. I only know of AKL-SIN myself.


There was Trans Australian Airlines that later became Australian airlines it flew the Boeing 727 to CHC from Hobart back in the 1980s.

I’m not aware that TAA actually wanted to fly HBA-CHC, but their counterpart and nemesis Ansett wanted to fly internationally, but was for a long time refused on the basis that the Australian government’s policy was that Qantas should have a monopoly on all international air routes flown by Aussie airlines. The government eventually relented and allowed Ansett HBA-CHC, and because of the domestic “two-airline” policy of the time, TAA followed suit. Alas, some years before I started visiting HBA. When Ansett and TAA gave up the route, NZ took it over with a weekly 737-200 service (twice weekly some summers). This was the only Tasman route NZ ever flew regularly with the -200 (though I’m aware of an AKL-SYD-AKL substitution that was flown with one in 1997).


NZ also operated the 737-200 on a CHC-SYD-ZQN-CHC service during the late 90’s. “Ski express” was the tagline I believe.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:34 pm

Unclekoru wrote:
NZ also operated the 737-200 on a CHC-SYD-ZQN-CHC service during the late 90’s. “Ski express” was the tagline I believe.

Thanks - wasn’t aware of that.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:54 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
Unclekoru wrote:
NZ also operated the 737-200 on a CHC-SYD-ZQN-CHC service during the late 90’s. “Ski express” was the tagline I believe.


Thanks - wasn’t aware of that.


Me neither - so did the bags stay on the plane and people did the passport thing and got back on, or what? What's with the same plane given the customs element? Any ideas?
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:46 pm

77west wrote:
I thought all the NZ 772 were in storage, this video released on the 1st seems to indicate otherwise?

https://youtu.be/LL-xPU1YQMU?t=214


The video description implies it's all been filmed post the Tasman bubble opening but it's clearly not the case at all. The OKC hasn't flown for some considerable time. PA515 is the record keeper for things like this, he'll tell you the exact date it flew off to the desert.

At the start of this pandemic they were unlikely to ever fly again. We're now 12+ months on and the situation has only played out worse than everyone hoped so that slim remote chance has gone forever. As we all know, their replacements will arrive before the industry recovers enough to use them.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:05 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
V60Polestar wrote:
Anyone keen in this Hamilton startup with 'fewer than two' employees?

https://www.smergers.com/business/newly ... and/jt71x/


$12m for a 49% stake - I'd love to see the Business Plan.

Sounds like a high school project.

Surely not another Ewen Wilson initiative?


Would that be airline 3 or 4 for him?

But even he has more creditability than this.

- This is a start up plan and we do not have any assets yet. However, with the funds we would get the insurance, certifications, staff and aircrafts required for operations.


Are these two sentences related, insurance, certifications and staff aren't business assets (although staff can be in a different sense).

If travel bubbles close we would still be able to operate with a profit or very close to profit by flying our domestic routes.


Would be interesting see how they pull aircraft off the Tasman or PI (can only be RAR) and add a surge of capacity into the domestic network with no notice and still be profitable. Especially when in good economic times, JQ,QF,DJ all failed in this.

Hamilton Airport has lower competition from the international market and is closer to cities like Tauranga, Whakatane and Rotorua than Auckland.


Lower - it has no competition, except TRG,WHK, ROT which have domestic network while HLZ is geographically close to AKL with good a road network and affordable carparking.

But ROT was subsidized and failed, HLZ has been there 2 or 3 times and it's not worked each time, Kiwi Travel International, Freedom and there was maybe one other - I although I could be wrong.

Within the next 3 years we would want to have 5 aircrafts.


Maybe it's in the business plan, but I'm failing to see how they plan to grow a non international, non jet airport into one and what's going to be different now vs last time and not just that but grow is so aggressively in just 3 years - during COVID times.

I don't want to be disrespectful towards the author but it looks like a high school or early teen with passion in airlines has put it together.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1944
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:09 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Personally, I'd love to see regional jets. I just can't get my head around how the airline would get the board over the line or why they'd try. Especially given the "loan" they're going to have to pay off.

The government has the option to convert the loan to a capital investment. Any clues as to whether this is a real prospect?


Your guess would be as good as mine. I can't see the government wanting to convert to over but could another investor come in? Maybe, they may also have their hand forced... I'm not really sure to be honest. I doubt we'll know much until we international air travel gets back into a far more normal state.
 
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LamboAston
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:18 am

V60Polestar wrote:
I just saw an interesting feature on NZ Civil Aircraft this morning...
Cessna 208B ZK-MCS to be converted into an autonomous freighter prototype by Merlin Labs NZ (second photo from the top, not much has been done aside from the addition of Merlin Labs titles).

http://nzcivair.blogspot.com/2021/06/tr ... south.html

On another note, I saw on 3rd Level NZ that despite retirement from passenger service, it seems that the Convair 580 is now being used to transport lambs. Steve gave a pretty good quote from Tim Gorman: "It's a little known fact that Noah before he built the Ark, was trying to source a Convair 580, but had no luck, so he committed to building the Ark."

Convairs sure do seem to be unkillable.

http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2021/06/ ... rvice.html

Merlin Labs already had a 172 that was a L3 aircraft. There's a Fletcher being converted into a remote control topdressing aircraft at the moment too.
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