Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
NZ516 wrote:There is a few more potential routes they could consider for a Regional jet, if you add in the International ones as well. So a fleet could grow to 12 or more in a major expansion plan.
So Domestic
AKL IVC twice daily replacing the single 320
AKL NSN
CHC ROT
CHC ZQN
CHC HLZ
ZQN HLZ
WLG HLZ
Plus International
AKL CBR daily
AKL NTL
AKL TSV
AKL DRW
AKL CNS off peak season
AKL MCY same
AKL HBA daily
All Australian state capitals will have a service to AKL NZs largest city and main hub
77west wrote:Would an ATR HLZ-ZQN be that bad? Surely it would only be around 2hr30 flying time. Thats still faster than transiting WLG or CHC.
NZ516 wrote:Good points there NZ6
A Cheaper option would be to wet lease in Regional jets like what Qantas is doing with Alliance as they have a large fleet coming in. To purchase brand new aircraft to start new routes is very risky business decision I agree.
Some of those routes do have demand you paint it very black and they would be stimulated with a non stop service. The AKL to CNS route was a year round service for over 20 years before turning into a winter seasonal one. It's Still a year round service from all the Aust domestic centers so demand can't be zero.
77west wrote:Would an ATR HLZ-ZQN be that bad? Surely it would only be around 2hr30 flying time. Thats still faster than transiting WLG or CHC.
aerorobnz wrote:CNS used to drop away every low season to loads that make HBA look good. This trend continued with PR when they operated AKL-CNS-MNL
PA515 wrote:Can someone update me on which Air NZ regional destinations have crew bases.
SelandiaBaru wrote:PA515 wrote:Can someone update me on which Air NZ regional destinations have crew bases.
AKL - ATR/Q300
TRG - ATR/Q300
NPL - Q300
NPE - ATR
WLG - ATR/Q300
NSN - ATR/Q300
CHC - ATR/Q300
Things change all the time but there is a mix of min-rest overnights, slip-crewing and extended overnights to facilitate the expanded operating hours from what it used to be when most overnights used to be min-rest.
NZ6 wrote:77west wrote:Would an ATR HLZ-ZQN be that bad? Surely it would only be around 2hr30 flying time. Thats still faster than transiting WLG or CHC.
I don't believe so, compare these two photos.
V60Polestar wrote:Anyone keen in this Hamilton startup with 'fewer than two' employees?
https://www.smergers.com/business/newly ... and/jt71x/
V60Polestar wrote:Anyone keen in this Hamilton startup with 'fewer than two' employees?
https://www.smergers.com/business/newly ... and/jt71x/
NZ6 wrote:V60Polestar wrote:Anyone keen in this Hamilton startup with 'fewer than two' employees?
https://www.smergers.com/business/newly ... and/jt71x/
$12m for a 49% stake - I'd love to see the Business Plan.
Sounds like a high school project.
DavidByrne wrote:Surely not another Ewen Wilson initiative?
ZK-NBT wrote:aerorobnz wrote:CNS used to drop away every low season to loads that make HBA look good. This trend continued with PR when they operated AKL-CNS-MNL
CNS had a weekly year round for years in the 1990s usually 763s but 747s in the later 1990s early 2000s even in summer some years, a second flight was added atleast in winter before 2004 when the A320 first flew the route, it gradually increased with the A320 to 3-4 weekly with some flights on 763s 772s but less in summer maybe 2 weekly.
DavidByrne wrote:NZ6 wrote:V60Polestar wrote:Anyone keen in this Hamilton startup with 'fewer than two' employees?
https://www.smergers.com/business/newly ... and/jt71x/
$12m for a 49% stake - I'd love to see the Business Plan.
Sounds like a high school project.
Surely not another Ewen Wilson initiative?
NZ516 wrote:ZK-NBT wrote:aerorobnz wrote:CNS used to drop away every low season to loads that make HBA look good. This trend continued with PR when they operated AKL-CNS-MNL
CNS had a weekly year round for years in the 1990s usually 763s but 747s in the later 1990s early 2000s even in summer some years, a second flight was added atleast in winter before 2004 when the A320 first flew the route, it gradually increased with the A320 to 3-4 weekly with some flights on 763s 772s but less in summer maybe 2 weekly.
You are good at record keeping. Cairns started in 1987 with 767s and was on the cover of the timetable at the time. I'm not sure when it was down graded to winter seasonal around 2025 ish. What is interesting is that Qantas will start CNS to AKL before resuming PER to AKL!
They also flew a weekly CNS to CHC service briefly many years ago. Will be interesting to see if QF can make CNS AKL a permanent route.
a7ala wrote:On the discussion about battery aircraft:
Good progress is being made on the Sounds Air/Wellington Airport collaboration with the ES-19 due to be in service by 2026 according to below article. Would be able to cover all the S8 flying NSN/BHE/PCN-WLG I would imagine with 19-seats.
https://www.soundsair.com/2020/10/Sound ... n-Flights/
Its a start...
ZK-NBT wrote:NZ516 wrote:ZK-NBT wrote:
CNS had a weekly year round for years in the 1990s usually 763s but 747s in the later 1990s early 2000s even in summer some years, a second flight was added atleast in winter before 2004 when the A320 first flew the route, it gradually increased with the A320 to 3-4 weekly with some flights on 763s 772s but less in summer maybe 2 weekly.
You are good at record keeping. Cairns started in 1987 with 767s and was on the cover of the timetable at the time. I'm not sure when it was down graded to winter seasonal around 2025 ish. What is interesting is that Qantas will start CNS to AKL before resuming PER to AKL!
They also flew a weekly CNS to CHC service briefly many years ago. Will be interesting to see if QF can make CNS AKL a permanent route.
I do remember stuff like old schedules, yes I believe QF had short lived CNS-CHC at some point. CNS-AKL is leisure oriented which is where the market is more atm like OOL where hopefully they can stimulate demand. PER not quite so much I guess. Personally I think CNS/OOL will last until things rebound for QF the aircraft go where yields are higher and these routes to JQ
DavidByrne wrote:ZK-NBT wrote:NZ516 wrote:
You are good at record keeping. Cairns started in 1987 with 767s and was on the cover of the timetable at the time. I'm not sure when it was down graded to winter seasonal around 2025 ish. What is interesting is that Qantas will start CNS to AKL before resuming PER to AKL!
They also flew a weekly CNS to CHC service briefly many years ago. Will be interesting to see if QF can make CNS AKL a permanent route.
I do remember stuff like old schedules, yes I believe QF had short lived CNS-CHC at some point. CNS-AKL is leisure oriented which is where the market is more atm like OOL where hopefully they can stimulate demand. PER not quite so much I guess. Personally I think CNS/OOL will last until things rebound for QF the aircraft go where yields are higher and these routes to JQ
Yep, the old schedules do tend to stick in a retrievable part of the brain. My recollection is that the QF CHC-CNS services were twice weekly - and used a 747. I always assumed it was at least in part away of positioning or rotating the QF 747s that used to serve CNS-HNL-LAX. It always seemed bizarre that CHC could warrant such capacity to a destination like CNS.
ZK-NBT wrote:DavidByrne wrote:ZK-NBT wrote:
I do remember stuff like old schedules, yes I believe QF had short lived CNS-CHC at some point. CNS-AKL is leisure oriented which is where the market is more atm like OOL where hopefully they can stimulate demand. PER not quite so much I guess. Personally I think CNS/OOL will last until things rebound for QF the aircraft go where yields are higher and these routes to JQ
Yep, the old schedules do tend to stick in a retrievable part of the brain. My recollection is that the QF CHC-CNS services were twice weekly - and used a 747. I always assumed it was at least in part away of positioning or rotating the QF 747s that used to serve CNS-HNL-LAX. It always seemed bizarre that CHC could warrant such capacity to a destination like CNS.
What years was that you reakon? I recall AKL-CNS on a 747 around 1996/97, CNS-AKL was a redeye and arrived around 0530 left at 0700, CNS got a fair few QF 747s back then to NRT/NGO/KIX aswell on the classics.
DavidByrne wrote:ZK-NBT wrote:DavidByrne wrote:Yep, the old schedules do tend to stick in a retrievable part of the brain. My recollection is that the QF CHC-CNS services were twice weekly - and used a 747. I always assumed it was at least in part away of positioning or rotating the QF 747s that used to serve CNS-HNL-LAX. It always seemed bizarre that CHC could warrant such capacity to a destination like CNS.
What years was that you reakon? I recall AKL-CNS on a 747 around 1996/97, CNS-AKL was a redeye and arrived around 0530 left at 0700, CNS got a fair few QF 747s back then to NRT/NGO/KIX aswell on the classics.
Sorry, I’m away from home ATM and don’t have recourse to old timetables (though I’m not sure it figures in anything I have anyway).
77west wrote:I thought all the NZ 772 were in storage, this video released on the 1st seems to indicate otherwise?
https://youtu.be/LL-xPU1YQMU?t=214
ZK-NBT wrote:There was a TSV-AKL weekly 747 In 1983 still operated weekly in 1989 also with a CNS service on 767s. QF ran ADL-AKL weekly in 1983 on a 747 as did BA.
NZ6 wrote:Personally, I'd love to see regional jets. I just can't get my head around how the airline would get the board over the line or why they'd try. Especially given the "loan" they're going to have to pay off.
DavidByrne wrote:ZK-NBT wrote:There was a TSV-AKL weekly 747 In 1983 still operated weekly in 1989 also with a CNS service on 767s. QF ran ADL-AKL weekly in 1983 on a 747 as did BA.
Interesting. I was aware that QF operated AKL-TSV-SIN with a 767 at one point, but wasn’t aware of a 747 service.
V60Polestar wrote:Also, on the topic of Tasman routes, what routes did Australian Airlines fly here, if any? And what about Jetstar's A330 routes. I only know of AKL-SIN myself.
ZK-NBT wrote:V60Polestar wrote:Also, on the topic of Tasman routes, what routes did Australian Airlines fly here, if any? And what about Jetstar's A330 routes. I only know of AKL-SIN myself.
I don’t recall Australian airlines flying to NZ, you are talking about the Orange 763d around early mid 2000s? If so their 763s did return to QF still in Australian colours for a few months at least and flee to AKL in those colours.
JQ A330s, pretty sure was only AKL-SIN which started daily but dropped to 3-4 weekly pretty quickly before being pulled, I think it ran 2011-13
V60Polestar wrote:Also, on the topic of Tasman routes, what routes did Australian Airlines fly here, if any? And what about Jetstar's A330 routes. I only know of AKL-SIN myself.
ZK-NBT wrote:DavidByrne wrote:ZK-NBT wrote:
I do remember stuff like old schedules, yes I believe QF had short lived CNS-CHC at some point. CNS-AKL is leisure oriented which is where the market is more atm like OOL where hopefully they can stimulate demand. PER not quite so much I guess. Personally I think CNS/OOL will last until things rebound for QF the aircraft go where yields are higher and these routes to JQ
Yep, the old schedules do tend to stick in a retrievable part of the brain. My recollection is that the QF CHC-CNS services were twice weekly - and used a 747. I always assumed it was at least in part away of positioning or rotating the QF 747s that used to serve CNS-HNL-LAX. It always seemed bizarre that CHC could warrant such capacity to a destination like CNS.
What years was that you reakon? I recall AKL-CNS on a 747 around 1996/97, CNS-AKL was a redeye and arrived around 0530 left at 0700, CNS got a fair few QF 747s back then to NRT/NGO/KIX aswell on the classics.
NZ516 wrote:Also QF ran a AKL TSV DRW SIN 767-200 service which enabled access direct from NZ to the NT for the first time.
NZ516 wrote:V60Polestar wrote:Also, on the topic of Tasman routes, what routes did Australian Airlines fly here, if any? And what about Jetstar's A330 routes. I only know of AKL-SIN myself.
There was Trans Australian Airlines that later became Australian airlines it flew the Boeing 727 to CHC from Hobart back in the 1980s.
DavidByrne wrote:NZ516 wrote:Also QF ran a AKL TSV DRW SIN 767-200 service which enabled access direct from NZ to the NT for the first time.
Ah yes; I’d forgotten about the DRW stop. Thanks.
NZ321 wrote:ZK-NBT wrote:DavidByrne wrote:Yep, the old schedules do tend to stick in a retrievable part of the brain. My recollection is that the QF CHC-CNS services were twice weekly - and used a 747. I always assumed it was at least in part away of positioning or rotating the QF 747s that used to serve CNS-HNL-LAX. It always seemed bizarre that CHC could warrant such capacity to a destination like CNS.
What years was that you reakon? I recall AKL-CNS on a 747 around 1996/97, CNS-AKL was a redeye and arrived around 0530 left at 0700, CNS got a fair few QF 747s back then to NRT/NGO/KIX aswell on the classics.
I flew it around this time - might have been 1998 - QF 747-300. You are spot on about the timing - red-eye to AKL.
DavidByrne wrote:NZ516 wrote:V60Polestar wrote:Also, on the topic of Tasman routes, what routes did Australian Airlines fly here, if any? And what about Jetstar's A330 routes. I only know of AKL-SIN myself.
There was Trans Australian Airlines that later became Australian airlines it flew the Boeing 727 to CHC from Hobart back in the 1980s.
I’m not aware that TAA actually wanted to fly HBA-CHC, but their counterpart and nemesis Ansett wanted to fly internationally, but was for a long time refused on the basis that the Australian government’s policy was that Qantas should have a monopoly on all international air routes flown by Aussie airlines. The government eventually relented and allowed Ansett HBA-CHC, and because of the domestic “two-airline” policy of the time, TAA followed suit. Alas, some years before I started visiting HBA. When Ansett and TAA gave up the route, NZ took it over with a weekly 737-200 service (twice weekly some summers). This was the only Tasman route NZ ever flew regularly with the -200 (though I’m aware of an AKL-SYD-AKL substitution that was flown with one in 1997).
Unclekoru wrote:NZ also operated the 737-200 on a CHC-SYD-ZQN-CHC service during the late 90’s. “Ski express” was the tagline I believe.
DavidByrne wrote:Unclekoru wrote:NZ also operated the 737-200 on a CHC-SYD-ZQN-CHC service during the late 90’s. “Ski express” was the tagline I believe.
Thanks - wasn’t aware of that.
77west wrote:I thought all the NZ 772 were in storage, this video released on the 1st seems to indicate otherwise?
https://youtu.be/LL-xPU1YQMU?t=214
DavidByrne wrote:NZ6 wrote:V60Polestar wrote:Anyone keen in this Hamilton startup with 'fewer than two' employees?
https://www.smergers.com/business/newly ... and/jt71x/
$12m for a 49% stake - I'd love to see the Business Plan.
Sounds like a high school project.
Surely not another Ewen Wilson initiative?
- This is a start up plan and we do not have any assets yet. However, with the funds we would get the insurance, certifications, staff and aircrafts required for operations.
If travel bubbles close we would still be able to operate with a profit or very close to profit by flying our domestic routes.
Hamilton Airport has lower competition from the international market and is closer to cities like Tauranga, Whakatane and Rotorua than Auckland.
Within the next 3 years we would want to have 5 aircrafts.
DavidByrne wrote:NZ6 wrote:Personally, I'd love to see regional jets. I just can't get my head around how the airline would get the board over the line or why they'd try. Especially given the "loan" they're going to have to pay off.
The government has the option to convert the loan to a capital investment. Any clues as to whether this is a real prospect?
V60Polestar wrote:I just saw an interesting feature on NZ Civil Aircraft this morning...
Cessna 208B ZK-MCS to be converted into an autonomous freighter prototype by Merlin Labs NZ (second photo from the top, not much has been done aside from the addition of Merlin Labs titles).
http://nzcivair.blogspot.com/2021/06/tr ... south.html
On another note, I saw on 3rd Level NZ that despite retirement from passenger service, it seems that the Convair 580 is now being used to transport lambs. Steve gave a pretty good quote from Tim Gorman: "It's a little known fact that Noah before he built the Ark, was trying to source a Convair 580, but had no luck, so he committed to building the Ark."
Convairs sure do seem to be unkillable.
http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2021/06/ ... rvice.html