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ZK-NBT
Posts: 8100
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:15 am

DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Is this something NZ have said? What is the schedule we are analysing?

I just looked at the forward schedules on one of the sites (FlightLookup) that still contains these. My experience is that they are not always up-to-date, but I nevertheless assume that at some point recently the summer schedule I referred to was what NZ was proposing. Given the nature of the pandemic, it should be taken only as a guide as to their intentions at that particular point in time (it was several weeks ago that I looked it up).


Right so NZ have got a schedule penciled in loaded, how realistic it is I don’t know, all long haul currently showing 789s. This is from 1st to 7th Feb 2022, Frequency weekly xx

LAX x7
SFOx4
IAHx3
ORDx3
HNL x4
YVRx3
PVG x7
NRTx 7
HKGx7 (CX x14 359)
SIN x7 ( SQ x10 359)
ICNx3
TPEx3
PER x7
 
zkncj
Posts: 4365
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:45 am

ZK-NBT wrote:

Right so NZ have got a schedule penciled in loaded, how realistic it is I don’t know, all long haul currently showing 789s. This is from 1st to 7th Feb 2022, Frequency weekly xx

LAX x7
SFOx4
IAHx3
ORDx3
HNL x4
YVRx3
PVG x7
NRTx 7
HKGx7 (CX x14 359)
SIN x7 ( SQ x10 359)
ICNx3
TPEx3
PER x7


Bring on that Asia 2022 holiday! Although not 100% if the New Zealand boarders will be fully open by then…

Hopefully SIN gets to open up as an bubble this year with New Zealand.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8100
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:00 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Is this something NZ have said? What is the schedule we are analysing?

I just looked at the forward schedules on one of the sites (FlightLookup) that still contains these. My experience is that they are not always up-to-date, but I nevertheless assume that at some point recently the summer schedule I referred to was what NZ was proposing. Given the nature of the pandemic, it should be taken only as a guide as to their intentions at that particular point in time (it was several weeks ago that I looked it up).


Right so NZ have got a schedule penciled in loaded, how realistic it is I don’t know, all long haul currently showing 789s. This is from 1st to 7th Feb 2022, Frequency weekly xx

LAX x7
SFOx4
IAHx3
ORDx3
HNL x4
YVRx3
PVG x7
NRTx 7
HKGx7 (CX x14 359)
SIN x7 ( SQ x10 359)
ICNx3
TPEx3
PER x7


Also UA x7 777 to SFO.
 
a7ala
Posts: 400
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:02 am

zkncj wrote:
How many domestic terminals in New Zealand, could support 240 a321Ns?

Maybe just CHC? AKL / ZQN struggle with full passenger loaded on an a321NEO currently with only 220 seats.

The boarding process becomes chaotic, with the lack of room at the gate. It’s no lines just organised chaos of people pushing there way up to boarding pass scanning station.


WLG easily.
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8435
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:58 am

a7ala wrote:
WLG easily.


Very easily in fact. WLG has plenty of room - I have been to so many airports with less space for a widebody load than WLG has for a mere A321
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8100
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:20 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
I just looked at the forward schedules on one of the sites (FlightLookup) that still contains these. My experience is that they are not always up-to-date, but I nevertheless assume that at some point recently the summer schedule I referred to was what NZ was proposing. Given the nature of the pandemic, it should be taken only as a guide as to their intentions at that particular point in time (it was several weeks ago that I looked it up).


Right so NZ have got a schedule penciled in loaded, how realistic it is I don’t know, all long haul currently showing 789s. This is from 1st to 7th Feb 2022, Frequency weekly xx

LAX x7
SFOx4
IAHx3
ORDx3
HNL x4
YVRx3
PVG x7
NRTx 7
HKGx7 (CX x14 359)
SIN x7 ( SQ x10 359)
ICNx3
TPEx3
PER x7


Also UA x7 777 to SFO.


Also
KIX x3
RAR-SYD x1
RAR-LAX x1

You could probably squeeze that in with 14 789s but there wouldn’t be a lot of slack, so 3 77Ws on LAX/IAH or something. Who knows what short haul will be, currently shows the following 789s ex AKL, most can be done between long haul, some early US/PVG/PER aircraft me turn to Asian flights between 0930/1030.

SYD x7
MEL x7
BNE x7
NAN x7
APW x1
TBU x1
RAR x2 (but are the days the aircraft goes to LAX/SYD)
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4630
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:30 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

Right so NZ have got a schedule penciled in loaded, how realistic it is I don’t know, all long haul currently showing 789s. This is from 1st to 7th Feb 2022, Frequency weekly xx

LAX x7
SFOx4
IAHx3
ORDx3
HNL x4
YVRx3
PVG x7
NRTx 7
HKGx7 (CX x14 359)
SIN x7 ( SQ x10 359)
ICNx3
TPEx3
PER x7


Also UA x7 777 to SFO.


Also
KIX x3
RAR-SYD x1
RAR-LAX x1

You could probably squeeze that in with 14 789s but there wouldn’t be a lot of slack, so 3 77Ws on LAX/IAH or something. Who knows what short haul will be, currently shows the following 789s ex AKL, most can be done between long haul, some early US/PVG/PER aircraft me turn to Asian flights between 0930/1030.

SYD x7
MEL x7
BNE x7
NAN x7
APW x1
TBU x1
RAR x2 (but are the days the aircraft goes to LAX/SYD)

I’d say LAX/SFO/IAH all 77W.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2002
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:37 am

Zkpilot wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

Also UA x7 777 to SFO.


Also
KIX x3
RAR-SYD x1
RAR-LAX x1

You could probably squeeze that in with 14 789s but there wouldn’t be a lot of slack, so 3 77Ws on LAX/IAH or something. Who knows what short haul will be, currently shows the following 789s ex AKL, most can be done between long haul, some early US/PVG/PER aircraft me turn to Asian flights between 0930/1030.

SYD x7
MEL x7
BNE x7
NAN x7
APW x1
TBU x1
RAR x2 (but are the days the aircraft goes to LAX/SYD)

I’d say LAX/SFO/IAH all 77W.


In the long run yes you're on the money. Until the 77W's exit the fleet.

All this talk of upcoming NW schedules is interesting. It's so safe, it's almost obvious that the full schedule won't play out as it's scheduled now. BUT once we start getting the big vaccine shipments in and once the general population roll out is running smoothly more talk will come out of on how and when borders will reopen.

Like I've said before, a few safe zone options exist in the last quarter but they'll be 787 routes.

In the new year we'll see more and more relaxing which will open more routes, I'm hopeful this can be very late this year but wise money would go onto 2022.

The issue like I've said before is the 777's are been parked out for over a year now. A lot of crew cross skilled over to the 787, 787's down to A320 while many, many more exited. There's a lot of water to go under the bridge to bring all crew back up to operational standard so we'll likely see a lot of double bangers on the Tasman / Pacific and simulators running around the clock I'm sure.
 
NZ516
Posts: 811
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:39 am

Zkpilot wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

Also UA x7 777 to SFO.


Also
KIX x3
RAR-SYD x1
RAR-LAX x1

You could probably squeeze that in with 14 789s but there wouldn’t be a lot of slack, so 3 77Ws on LAX/IAH or something. Who knows what short haul will be, currently shows the following 789s ex AKL, most can be done between long haul, some early US/PVG/PER aircraft me turn to Asian flights between 0930/1030.

SYD x7
MEL x7
BNE x7
NAN x7
APW x1
TBU x1
RAR x2 (but are the days the aircraft goes to LAX/SYD)

I’d say LAX/SFO/IAH all 77W.


That will require 6 77Ws to run all that daily. Might be a year away before that happens and demand is fully restored. Hopefully all 7 will return as they are still fairly young.
 
NZ516
Posts: 811
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:12 am

Newcastle Airport wants flights to NZ again from this article. Not sure if an airline will take it up. As the load factor was a poor 52% on the VA 737. It's more of a regional jet size route

https://simpleflying.com/newcastle-will ... d-flights/
 
lowesrus
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:22 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:21 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Is this something NZ have said? What is the schedule we are analysing?

I just looked at the forward schedules on one of the sites (FlightLookup) that still contains these. My experience is that they are not always up-to-date, but I nevertheless assume that at some point recently the summer schedule I referred to was what NZ was proposing. Given the nature of the pandemic, it should be taken only as a guide as to their intentions at that particular point in time (it was several weeks ago that I looked it up).


Right so NZ have got a schedule penciled in loaded, how realistic it is I don’t know, all long haul currently showing 789s. This is from 1st to 7th Feb 2022, Frequency weekly xx

LAX x7
SFOx4
IAHx3
ORDx3
HNL x4
YVRx3
PVG x7
NRTx 7
HKGx7 (CX x14 359)
SIN x7 ( SQ x10 359)
ICNx3
TPEx3
PER x7


Also CHC-SIN is listed too.
 
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LamboAston
Posts: 676
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:46 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:30 am

NZ516 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

Also
KIX x3
RAR-SYD x1
RAR-LAX x1

You could probably squeeze that in with 14 789s but there wouldn’t be a lot of slack, so 3 77Ws on LAX/IAH or something. Who knows what short haul will be, currently shows the following 789s ex AKL, most can be done between long haul, some early US/PVG/PER aircraft me turn to Asian flights between 0930/1030.

SYD x7
MEL x7
BNE x7
NAN x7
APW x1
TBU x1
RAR x2 (but are the days the aircraft goes to LAX/SYD)

I’d say LAX/SFO/IAH all 77W.


That will require 6 77Ws to run all that daily. Might be a year away before that happens and demand is fully restored. Hopefully all 7 will return as they are still fairly young.

Current plan was for 6 to return.
 
NZ516
Posts: 811
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:00 am

Interesting I wonder which one of the original 7 won't come back then.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8100
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:27 am

lowesrus wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
I just looked at the forward schedules on one of the sites (FlightLookup) that still contains these. My experience is that they are not always up-to-date, but I nevertheless assume that at some point recently the summer schedule I referred to was what NZ was proposing. Given the nature of the pandemic, it should be taken only as a guide as to their intentions at that particular point in time (it was several weeks ago that I looked it up).


Right so NZ have got a schedule penciled in loaded, how realistic it is I don’t know, all long haul currently showing 789s. This is from 1st to 7th Feb 2022, Frequency weekly xx

LAX x7
SFOx4
IAHx3
ORDx3
HNL x4
YVRx3
PVG x7
NRTx 7
HKGx7 (CX x14 359)
SIN x7 ( SQ x10 359)
ICNx3
TPEx3
PER x7


Also CHC-SIN is listed too.


Good find,
NZx 5 ( SQx4 359)
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8100
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:37 am

NZ516 wrote:
Interesting I wonder which one of the original 7 won't come back then.
LamboAston wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
I’d say LAX/SFO/IAH all 77W.


That will require 6 77Ws to run all that daily. Might be a year away before that happens and demand is fully restored. Hopefully all 7 will return as they are still fairly young.

Current plan was for 6 to return.


Probably the 3 in AKL will return first won't they, OKN, OKO, OKQ. With maybe just LAX to start, and short haul?

I was under the impression OKR and OKS were returned to the lessor? Though i'm sure NZ could release them as there are so many other 77Ws for freighter conversion to be picked up by freight airlines. So I may be wrong and they weren't returned? But if the plan is for 6 to return then the 3rd leased frame OKP? could leave or 1 of OKR/OKS. Sounds like the plan is 3 daily US runs LAX/SFO/IAH on 77Ws is the ultimate plan? Less in NS to allow maintenance.
 
NZ516
Posts: 811
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:11 am

Could well be that scenario happening. Perhaps OKM won't return as being the oldest.
 
NZ321
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:26 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

Right so NZ have got a schedule penciled in loaded, how realistic it is I don’t know, all long haul currently showing 789s. This is from 1st to 7th Feb 2022, Frequency weekly xx

LAX x7
SFOx4
IAHx3
ORDx3
HNL x4
YVRx3
PVG x7
NRTx 7
HKGx7 (CX x14 359)
SIN x7 ( SQ x10 359)
ICNx3
TPEx3
PER x7


Also UA x7 777 to SFO.


Also
KIX x3
RAR-SYD x1
RAR-LAX x1

You could probably squeeze that in with 14 789s but there wouldn’t be a lot of slack, so 3 77Ws on LAX/IAH or something. Who knows what short haul will be, currently shows the following 789s ex AKL, most can be done between long haul, some early US/PVG/PER aircraft me turn to Asian flights between 0930/1030.

SYD x7
MEL x7
BNE x7
NAN x7
APW x1
TBU x1
RAR x2 (but are the days the aircraft goes to LAX/SYD)


I think AC may also be AKL bound with 788s YVR-AKL 4x p/week from the look of it - not sure if NZ and AC will be code sharing or if this is independent.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2002
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:44 pm

NZ516 wrote:
That will require 6 77Ws to run all that daily. Might be a year away before that happens and demand is fully restored. Hopefully all 7 will return as they are still fairly young.


LamboAston wrote:
Current plan was for 6 to return.


At this stage all the 77W's will return to service, tentative dates have been 'leaked' externally for the first 3 only with the rest being labelled 'early 2022'.

Like I said yesterday, the summer schedule won't operate as it currently shows. There is potential for some increased services once we've completed the vaccine rollout. Which the government still stats as being completed this year.

Unfortunately what comes after that is still very much unknown. The border will reopen in some capacity late this year / early next year. What that looks like, when how etc is still to be formalized. That'll impact what a schedule looks like, the notice of any reopening will likely may be narrow which will impact this also.

Prior to all of this - we'll see some 77W's being used on the Tasman as the tech crew pool is established again.

As for when frames, 5, 6 and 7 are needed... well that could be some time away but it ultimately depends how the global market reacts. The Tasman was slower than expected but the "risk" and "warnings" of a pause and MIQ played a large part in this. Wider reopening's post vaccine will likely be very different.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2002
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:14 pm

Out of interest, has anyone here been to Australia since the bubble opened for a holiday (not saying with friends or family)? Or anyone avoiding it?

I was speaking with an agent friend over the weekend. They were saying from their experience most Tasman travel to date has been to see family etc. But to draw a line in the sand, from the October school holiday onwards a lot of people are enquiring about genuine holidays. The general theme being that extra few months of the group 4 vaccinations giving people a lot more confidence it won't go tits up.

I personally haven't to date but am planning on a few weeks in November.
 
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FiscAutTecGarte
Posts: 515
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:08 pm

Hi folks. It's been many years since I have visited your beautiful country (17 years ago, but I did stay for 5 weeks and put 4200km on my rental car). As our schedule got compressed towards the end, we did take a few regional flights.

I'm curious to know if airplanes like the Tecnam P2012 Traveller (9pax) or the Textron Cessna 408 SkyCourier (19pax) might see service in New Zealand? Do small regionals and charters try to stay above the weather making these unpressurized aircraft unsuitable?
 
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LamboAston
Posts: 676
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:46 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:18 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
Hi folks. It's been many years since I have visited your beautiful country (17 years ago, but I did stay for 5 weeks and put 4200km on my rental car). As our schedule got compressed towards the end, we did take a few regional flights.

I'm curious to know if airplanes like the Tecnam P2012 Traveller (9pax) or the Textron Cessna 408 SkyCourier (19pax) might see service in New Zealand? Do small regionals and charters try to stay above the weather making these unpressurized aircraft unsuitable?

Unlikely, here, the Caravan and PC12 do those roles, with Sounds Air having invested in a new electric 19 seater.
 
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Zkpilot
Posts: 4630
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:27 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

Also
KIX x3
RAR-SYD x1
RAR-LAX x1

You could probably squeeze that in with 14 789s but there wouldn’t be a lot of slack, so 3 77Ws on LAX/IAH or something. Who knows what short haul will be, currently shows the following 789s ex AKL, most can be done between long haul, some early US/PVG/PER aircraft me turn to Asian flights between 0930/1030.

SYD x7
MEL x7
BNE x7
NAN x7
APW x1
TBU x1
RAR x2 (but are the days the aircraft goes to LAX/SYD)

I’d say LAX/SFO/IAH all 77W.


That will require 6 77Ws to run all that daily. Might be a year away before that happens and demand is fully restored. Hopefully all 7 will return as they are still fairly young.

I didn’t say daily…
It’s 2 flights each day per direction so 4 frames with generous downtime.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1954
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:32 pm

NZ6 wrote:
Out of interest, has anyone here been to Australia since the bubble opened for a holiday (not saying with friends or family)? Or anyone avoiding it?

I was speaking with an agent friend over the weekend. They were saying from their experience most Tasman travel to date has been to see family etc. But to draw a line in the sand, from the October school holiday onwards a lot of people are enquiring about genuine holidays. The general theme being that extra few months of the group 4 vaccinations giving people a lot more confidence it won't go tits up.

I personally haven't to date but am planning on a few weeks in November.

I have a trip, part business (HBA, MEL, Geelong), part family (HBA, NSW Central Coast, OOL, BNE, GLT), booked for August. Well, partly booked, anyway. I've booked AKL-HBA and HBA-MEL (decided not to hold back on the latter because QF had such a great deal on that sector), but I'm very uncertain when to book the rest of the trip. I will by then be vaccinated - I would not have made a booking without that guarantee. Does anyone have experience getting refunds out of QF, JQ VA or ZL in the event that Covid does become a factor?
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1954
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:49 pm

The recent announcement that NZ will be pushing back deliveries of its next WBs until "2024" (I assume that means FY 2023-24?) got me thinking about EWR. I assume that the reason that the first 787-10 was converted to a -9 was so that the latest upgrades could be incorporated into a "Code 3" 789 for use on EWR. Am I correct in thinking that the current "Code 2" would be marginal on the route? (Though I note that PER-LHR is 200 miles longer than AKL-EWR).

If this has potential implications for the launch of EWR being pushed back to 2024, then this might mean NZ loses whatever advantage it perceives in being ahead of QF in the launching of its own nonstop route. At a stroke, NZ will with AKL-EWR be able to offer a one-stop seamless service in both directions from New York to multiple Australian ports without the inconvenience of a terminal transfer or handling bags en route as per the status quo on QF's current one-stop offering.

Does anyone have info on what the airline's current thinking here is?
 
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Zkpilot
Posts: 4630
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:04 am

DavidByrne wrote:
The recent announcement that NZ will be pushing back deliveries of its next WBs until "2024" (I assume that means FY 2023-24?) got me thinking about EWR. I assume that the reason that the first 787-10 was converted to a -9 was so that the latest upgrades could be incorporated into a "Code 3" 789 for use on EWR. Am I correct in thinking that the current "Code 2" would be marginal on the route? (Though I note that PER-LHR is 200 miles longer than AKL-EWR).

If this has potential implications for the launch of EWR being pushed back to 2024, then this might mean NZ loses whatever advantage it perceives in being ahead of QF in the launching of its own nonstop route. At a stroke, NZ will with AKL-EWR be able to offer a one-stop seamless service in both directions from New York to multiple Australian ports without the inconvenience of a terminal transfer or handling bags en route as per the status quo on QF's current one-stop offering.

Does anyone have info on what the airline's current thinking here is?

It’s more about the engines than anything else. The GE simply offer better performance/economy allowing for greater range. In the correct configuration (code 3) the RR 789 could still do it but likely with huge payload penalties (which if it’s just an interim measure would likely be acceptable).
I’d imagine the whole project isn’t a priority right now until the Covid global situation improves. Likewise QF doesn’t seem to be in a big rush to get project sunrise going again.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8100
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:52 am

Zkpilot wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
The recent announcement that NZ will be pushing back deliveries of its next WBs until "2024" (I assume that means FY 2023-24?) got me thinking about EWR. I assume that the reason that the first 787-10 was converted to a -9 was so that the latest upgrades could be incorporated into a "Code 3" 789 for use on EWR. Am I correct in thinking that the current "Code 2" would be marginal on the route? (Though I note that PER-LHR is 200 miles longer than AKL-EWR).

If this has potential implications for the launch of EWR being pushed back to 2024, then this might mean NZ loses whatever advantage it perceives in being ahead of QF in the launching of its own nonstop route. At a stroke, NZ will with AKL-EWR be able to offer a one-stop seamless service in both directions from New York to multiple Australian ports without the inconvenience of a terminal transfer or handling bags en route as per the status quo on QF's current one-stop offering.

Does anyone have info on what the airline's current thinking here is?

It’s more about the engines than anything else. The GE simply offer better performance/economy allowing for greater range. In the correct configuration (code 3) the RR 789 could still do it but likely with huge payload penalties (which if it’s just an interim measure would likely be acceptable).
I’d imagine the whole project isn’t a priority right now until the Covid global situation improves. Likewise QF doesn’t seem to be in a big rush to get project sunrise going again.


In the case of QF they did say they will look at sunrise again at the end of this year, what that entails remains to be seen as to weather thrust commit to an order yet or not.

What is the latest for NZ on EWR? Has it pretty Mu h been pushed back another year at this stage so late 2022? You would think more of the 787 order will be 789s, maybe 3 to cover EWR and ORD or something less than daily initially?
 
NZ516
Posts: 811
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:43 am

Time is running out to save the last Air NZ 747 from the wrecking ball.

"Race against time: 18 days to save Air NZ's last 747 | Stuff.co.nz" https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/30033 ... s-last-747
 
NZ516
Posts: 811
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:44 am

Unfortunately another pause is on for 3 days between NZ and NSW.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/12552 ... r-72-hours
 
cpd
Posts: 6823
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:27 am

NZ516 wrote:
Time is running out to save the last Air NZ 747 from the wrecking ball.

"Race against time: 18 days to save Air NZ's last 747 | Stuff.co.nz" https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/30033 ... s-last-747


I’m afraid they won’t make it. Last I looked it was about $27,000. I could add another $2K to that but it’s nothing in the grand scheme.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4365
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:55 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Unfortunately another pause is on for 3 days between NZ and NSW.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/12552 ... r-72-hours


Ironically from 11:59pm the bubble pause with Victoria has now been lifted, with two way traffic resumes this morning. [url]
https://covid19.govt.nz/travel/quaranti ... a/victoria[/url]/

You also will no longer require an negative Covid test, if you have been in Victoria.

What amazes me is that we shut the Victoria boarder a couple of cases into an outbreak, but with NSW we will it raise to 21 cases and an close contact travelling to New Zealand.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4365
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:50 pm

This latest bubble burst, and infected traveller that traveled SYD-WLG-SYD over the weekend.

Begs the question why isn’t an some form of rapid testing done as apart of that Tasman bubble?

Surely an rapid salvia test done at the airports, before departure would be better than the current system of no testing. Especially from an state we’re there are currently know cases of COVID.

While they aren’t as good as PCR tests, it’s still an added layer to help defend the boarder compare to the current bubble system of no testing.
 
Some1Somewhere
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:22 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:03 pm

You'd probably end up turning a lot of people away due to false positives.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2946
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:32 pm

zkncj wrote:
This latest bubble burst, and infected traveller that traveled SYD-WLG-SYD over the weekend.

Begs the question why isn’t an some form of rapid testing done as apart of that Tasman bubble?

Surely an rapid salvia test done at the airports, before departure would be better than the current system of no testing. Especially from an state we’re there are currently know cases of COVID.

While they aren’t as good as PCR tests, it’s still an added layer to help defend the boarder compare to the current bubble system of no testing.

It would be a massive turn-off. Trans-Tasman is supposed to be as easy as domestic. If you put up hurdles, the trans-Tasman bubble will become all-too-hard and will fail even though, anecdotally, it is not exactly booming currently anyway.
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6889
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:43 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Time is running out to save the last Air NZ 747 from the wrecking ball.

"Race against time: 18 days to save Air NZ's last 747 | Stuff.co.nz" https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/30033 ... s-last-747


I was for it until they started talking about turning it into a hotel etc like the ones in AMS and Sweden. Kind of looses it's purpose as a museum piece for me anyway once they go down that road.

My take on the bubble, there's not enough continuity or reliability to instill any confidence in the flying public. But hey, what do I know
 
NZ516
Posts: 811
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:27 am

cpd wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Time is running out to save the last Air NZ 747 from the wrecking ball.

"Race against time: 18 days to save Air NZ's last 747 | Stuff.co.nz" https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/30033 ... s-last-747


I’m afraid they won’t make it. Last I looked it was about $27,000. I could add another $2K to that but it’s nothing in the grand scheme.


Agree. It was a great dream but that is where it ends really to be honest. I don't want to sound mean but they wanted six aircraft brought back to NZ and if the first one the 747 will cost $2.5 million all of it to come from donations then it is a huge task probably $10m plus to get them all out here. That is a huge ask on the general public who can't really afford it. Just too ambitious the whole idea of it unfortunately.
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 759
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:32 am

NZ seemed very slow to pause the bubble with NSW, considering they paused it very quickly with WA and QLD when they ended up having 1 or 2 cases.
 
cpd
Posts: 6823
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:19 am

NZ516 wrote:
cpd wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Time is running out to save the last Air NZ 747 from the wrecking ball.

"Race against time: 18 days to save Air NZ's last 747 | Stuff.co.nz" https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/30033 ... s-last-747


I’m afraid they won’t make it. Last I looked it was about $27,000. I could add another $2K to that but it’s nothing in the grand scheme.


Agree. It was a great dream but that is where it ends really to be honest. I don't want to sound mean but they wanted six aircraft brought back to NZ and if the first one the 747 will cost $2.5 million all of it to come from donations then it is a huge task probably $10m plus to get them all out here. That is a huge ask on the general public who can't really afford it. Just too ambitious the whole idea of it unfortunately.


Up to $32K now. I really want it to succeed - but it needs major corporate backing, individuals like you and me, even if we do put in some fairly big amounts can't make it a reality.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1158
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:13 am

MAX approved to return to NZ skies.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/125 ... land-skies
 
zkncj
Posts: 4365
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:01 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
MAX approved to return to NZ skies.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/125 ... land-skies


Would only benefit the likes of FJ currently to New Zealand, and not that I’d expect an Fiji bubble in the next 3-6months any more.
 
NZ516
Posts: 811
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:36 am

Good news as Air NZ has picked up another freight service linking MEL to LAX supported by the Australian Government.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2 ... nment.html
 
zkncj
Posts: 4365
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:50 am

https://covid19.govt.nz/travel/quarantine-free-travel/australia/new-south-wales/

The NSW bubble pause has now been extended until the 7th July.
 
NZ516
Posts: 811
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:08 am

Really happy for this good news. Air NZ will make Cairns and Sunshine Coast a year round service.


https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/destinatio ... -yearround
 
NZ516
Posts: 811
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:34 pm

Now that the QLD State Government has made an agreement to financially support these two routes. Plus recently Newcastle has said its looking into getting it's Auckland service re instated. All we are waiting on now is for the City of Canberra to make an offer that Air NZ can't refuse. Hint Hint. They won't want to be left behind!!!!

My prediction is by the end of the year we will see the Tasman open up further with NTL and CBR both having services planned to start to AKL
 
zkncj
Posts: 4365
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:21 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Now that the QLD State Government has made an agreement to financially support these two routes. Plus recently Newcastle has said its looking into getting it's Auckland service re instated. All we are waiting on now is for the City of Canberra to make an offer that Air NZ can't refuse. Hint Hint. They won't want to be left behind!!!!

My prediction is by the end of the year we will see the Tasman open up further with NTL and CBR both having services planned to start to AKL


NZ seems to be coming fast the preferred Government supplier to the Australian Governments both Fed/State.

So they currently have some more of funding for:
BNE-LAX Cargo Only
MEL-LAX Cargo Only (starts in July)
BNE-NLK
SYD-NLK
OOL-CHC
MCY-AKL
CNS-AKL

There tenders must be attractive over Qantas….

By December 2021, looks highly likely that we still still be limited to Australia and Cook Islands (maybe Singapore).

So for that busy summer period there maybe some options to start some new Tasman routes.

Almost wonder how an 3x weekly AKL-BNK service would go over the Sumer period? Surely it would be better than the 3x Weekly NTL service VA tried.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4630
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:07 pm

zkncj wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Now that the QLD State Government has made an agreement to financially support these two routes. Plus recently Newcastle has said its looking into getting it's Auckland service re instated. All we are waiting on now is for the City of Canberra to make an offer that Air NZ can't refuse. Hint Hint. They won't want to be left behind!!!!

My prediction is by the end of the year we will see the Tasman open up further with NTL and CBR both having services planned to start to AKL


NZ seems to be coming fast the preferred Government supplier to the Australian Governments both Fed/State.

So they currently have some more of funding for:
BNE-LAX Cargo Only
MEL-LAX Cargo Only (starts in July)
BNE-NLK
SYD-NLK
OOL-CHC
MCY-AKL
CNS-AKL

There tenders must be attractive over Qantas….

By December 2021, looks highly likely that we still still be limited to Australia and Cook Islands (maybe Singapore).

So for that busy summer period there maybe some options to start some new Tasman routes.

Almost wonder how an 3x weekly AKL-BNK service would go over the Sumer period? Surely it would be better than the 3x Weekly NTL service VA tried.

NZ has always had a good relationship with the Oz government post the AN debacle (prior to that the Oz government played the main part in both NZ buying AN and shutting it down… but I digress). NZ for many years has operated charters for the ADF in particular.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2002
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:19 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Now that the QLD State Government has made an agreement to financially support these two routes. Plus recently Newcastle has said its looking into getting it's Auckland service re instated. All we are waiting on now is for the City of Canberra to make an offer that Air NZ can't refuse. Hint Hint. They won't want to be left behind!!!!

My prediction is by the end of the year we will see the Tasman open up further with NTL and CBR both having services planned to start to AKL


There's a big gap between supporting seasonal tourist routes to become year round ones and making whole new routes. Especially to non tourist markets like CBR and NTL.

If NTL council wants to support such a route then perhaps, VA would likely be asking a number of questions though. Then again will VA return with this or get this support given they've already supported NTL. But I don't see why CBR keeps getting mentioned? - I really don't.

zkncj wrote:
Almost wonder how an 3x weekly AKL-BNK service would go over the Sumer period? Surely it would be better than the 3x Weekly NTL service VA tried.


I don't believe there's any international services here is there? So they'd be some cost to set this up?

BNK as a destination is very targeted so may not appeal to the numbers needed on a regular basis, not just that but it's only 45mins from OOL.

Another more likely and balanced NSW option could be CFS.

This aside, I'm not sure why we're assuming there's going to be a flood of new Tasman routes? All we've seen is HBA and a two seasonal tourist routes going year round with state support.
 
NZ516
Posts: 811
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:58 am

zkncj wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Now that the QLD State Government has made an agreement to financially support these two routes. Plus recently Newcastle has said its looking into getting it's Auckland service re instated. All we are waiting on now is for the City of Canberra to make an offer that Air NZ can't refuse. Hint Hint. They won't want to be left behind!!!!

My prediction is by the end of the year we will see the Tasman open up further with NTL and CBR both having services planned to start to AKL


NZ seems to be coming fast the preferred Government supplier to the Australian Governments both Fed/State.

So they currently have some more of funding for:
BNE-LAX Cargo Only
MEL-LAX Cargo Only (starts in July)
BNE-NLK
SYD-NLK
OOL-CHC
MCY-AKL
CNS-AKL

There tenders must be attractive over Qantas….

By December 2021, looks highly likely that we still still be limited to Australia and Cook Islands (maybe Singapore).

So for that busy summer period there maybe some options to start some new Tasman routes.

Almost wonder how an 3x weekly AKL-BNK service would go over the Sumer period? Surely it would be better than the 3x Weekly NTL service VA tried.


Ballina is a tiny market 26,000 so can't ever see a flight to NZ.
Newcastle would have way more demand for two way travel to NZ
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1954
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:09 am

NZ516 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Now that the QLD State Government has made an agreement to financially support these two routes. Plus recently Newcastle has said its looking into getting it's Auckland service re instated. All we are waiting on now is for the City of Canberra to make an offer that Air NZ can't refuse. Hint Hint. They won't want to be left behind!!!!

My prediction is by the end of the year we will see the Tasman open up further with NTL and CBR both having services planned to start to AKL


NZ seems to be coming fast the preferred Government supplier to the Australian Governments both Fed/State.

So they currently have some more of funding for:
BNE-LAX Cargo Only
MEL-LAX Cargo Only (starts in July)
BNE-NLK
SYD-NLK
OOL-CHC
MCY-AKL
CNS-AKL

There tenders must be attractive over Qantas….

By December 2021, looks highly likely that we still still be limited to Australia and Cook Islands (maybe Singapore).

So for that busy summer period there maybe some options to start some new Tasman routes.

Almost wonder how an 3x weekly AKL-BNK service would go over the Sumer period? Surely it would be better than the 3x Weekly NTL service VA tried.


Ballina is a tiny market 26,000 so can't ever see a flight to NZ.
Newcastle would have way more demand for two way travel to NZ

Realistically, the only new Australian ports that are practical are those that already have customs and immigration facilities - unless there’s a local council with deep pockets and with the ability to strongarm the Federal government as well. IIRC the key to getting back into Hobart was the Federal government agreeing on a deal re customs and immigration - and it took years to bring them along.

Now if there was passport-free travel between Aus and NZ, things could be quite different. But as long as the two countries have such different attitudes to refugees, that just ain’t going to happen.

Still hoping for CBR and NTL though - I think these are practical within the next few years, and that NZ is the “natural fit” with its long-haul connections.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4365
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:52 am

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-singapores-surprising-new-plan-to-live-with-virus/EKXDOTWZYMUGFRRMF553CH2T5U/

Singapore has come out with an new common sense approach to COVID. Which now prevent an bubble with New Zealand, can’t see Arden agreeing with that approach. Of living with COVID as we do with the flu.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2002
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2021

Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:27 am

NZ516 wrote:
Ballina is a tiny market 26,000 so can't ever see a flight to NZ.
Newcastle would have way more demand for two way travel to NZ


Population size isn’t everything, I think we’ve been here before and quoted the population of the Cook Islands to emphasise that point.

Ballina is the airport for Byron Bay which is a rapidly growing and popular eco “hippy” getaway spot .

The number of residents isn’t that import because any such route would be for Kiwis going there on holiday.
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