https://simpleflying.com/hi-fly-a330-wing-tip-trial/

Can anybody shed light on this.. This is the first I've heard of a new wingtip for A330s. A 2% reduction in fuel consumption is nothing to sneeze at. “A flight from Frankfurt to Hong Kong, for example, would save at least 1.2 tons of fuel. If the specs pan out, I could see this program being very successful.. The fallout of the Pandemic will probably cause a lot of airlines to consider keeping fleets a little longer to reduce CapEx.

Presumably aimed at ceos - looks spectacular! There might be interest for freighter conversions, where a ton of fuel saved adds up to a ton of additional cargo.

Is this real? It’s a simple flying article.

Well those are hideous.

Babyshark wrote:

Is this real? It’s a simple flying article.

It would appear that way.... although they didn´t make much of the required accounting data public in a long time...

https://the-apc.eu/trinitair

best regards
Thomas

"Designed from a sketch on a napkin..." Let's hope it's not the same napkin Spinal Tap used for the Stonehenge set.

Interesting. That reminds me, did anything come of that A380 winglet that sort of resembled the MD-11's?

APC company CEO : we need to design a new wingtip to improve fuel brun
His 5 years old kid : Say no more

Wow, those are hideous. Move over 737MAX, there is a new champion of ugly wingtips in town...

VSMUT wrote:

Wow, those are hideous. Move over 737MAX, there is a new champion of ugly wingtips in town...

Truer words were never spoken.

From the PDF: „Managing Director: Harald Zirngibl“

A famous German bank robber.

744SPX wrote:

VSMUT wrote:

Wow, those are hideous. Move over 737MAX, there is a new champion of ugly wingtips in town...

Truer words were never spoken.

you guys just offended a lot of birds having wingtips like that...

best regards
Thomas

China attempted this in the past:



http://www.an2flyers.org/chinese.html

Babyshark wrote:

Is this real? It’s a simple flying article.

I was wondering the same thing.

A388

Noshow wrote:

Looks lightweight and smart to me. Some winglets have become big like surfboards and complex with a lot of parts and installations.

I can't possibly believe that this contraption is less complex and has fewer parts than any other type of winglet...

Wingwalkers are gonna have a field day...

VSMUT wrote:

Wow, those are hideous. Move over 737MAX, there is a new champion of ugly wingtips in town...

Poor HiFly, first the money losing A380 gambit, now the "three finger" wingtips.

Oh well, at least SimplyFlying got a lot of clicks for a pile of nonsense, all is right with the world!

Soon enough planes will have the areo devices that F1 cars have.

Couldn't Airbus simply retrofit the A330N's wingtips on those...might be a cheaper structural surgery.....?


https://airbus-h.assetsadobe2.com/is/im ... 1&qlt=85,0

Devilfish wrote:

Couldn't Airbus simply retrofit the A330N's wingtips on those...might be a cheaper structural surgery.....?


https://airbus-h.assetsadobe2.com/is/im ... 1&qlt=85,0

This isn't an Airbus solution. It is from a company called The Aircraft Performance Company.

Further, you don't "just" fit the NEO winglet on a CEO. Asides from the strengthening required, part of the A330neo development was the aerodynamically retwisted and optimised wing. The winglet probably doesn't even fit on an old A330 wing.

KFTG wrote:

Well those are hideous.

Who cares if they are hideous or not? 2% in fuel reduction is a lot, aviation is spending hundred of millions for that much.

I think they look better than the split scimitar on the 737NG.

tommy1808 wrote:

744SPX wrote:

VSMUT wrote:

Wow, those are hideous. Move over 737MAX, there is a new champion of ugly wingtips in town...

Truer words were never spoken.

you guys just offended a lot of birds having wingtips like that...

best regards
Thomas

Indeed. And if nature did it that way, there is a reason; Mother Nature knows best.

It looks like the feather wing tips of a bird. I don't think it's that surprising it's an efficient design.

These "feather" wingtips have been tried in the past. I think the idea is to optimally align each wing-like element with the local airflow at the wingtip to achieve an aerodynamically optimal solution. I'm not sure what the issues have been in the past but I can imagine that 1) manufacturing has been difficult in the past and now that we have computerized machining and 3D printing, it might be easier to execute and 2) behavior in non-cruise attitudes (rotation, landing) might be a challenge as well. I can see challenges with flutter and shockwave formation arising with multiple wing-like elements at different angles.

But if they can achieve a 2% reduction in fuel consumption over existing designs, that would be a major improvement.

As for looks, the only feature that is ever found on the outside of an airplane that is for appearances is the paint scheme (and even the paint itself serves a functional role). Every other element of an airplane's exterior is designed with function in mind.

DocLightning wrote:

These "feather" wingtips have been tried in the past. I think the idea is to optimally align each wing-like element with the local airflow at the wingtip to achieve an aerodynamically optimal solution. I'm not sure what the issues have been in the past but I can imagine that 1) manufacturing has been difficult in the past and now that we have computerized machining and 3D printing, it might be easier to execute and 2) behavior in non-cruise attitudes (rotation, landing) might be a challenge as well. I can see challenges with flutter and shockwave formation arising with multiple wing-like elements at different angles.

But if they can achieve a 2% reduction in fuel consumption over existing designs, that would be a major improvement.

As for looks, the only feature that is ever found on the outside of an airplane that is for appearances is the paint scheme (and even the paint itself serves a functional role). Every other element of an airplane's exterior is designed with function in mind.

Is it likely that HiFly will be trialling these in pax operations, or perhaps lending a frame to Airbus for a more systematic approach to testing?

KFTG wrote:

Well those are hideous.

Anything that adds variety while spotting is fine by me

JerseyFlyer wrote:

DocLightning wrote:

These "feather" wingtips have been tried in the past. I think the idea is to optimally align each wing-like element with the local airflow at the wingtip to achieve an aerodynamically optimal solution. I'm not sure what the issues have been in the past but I can imagine that 1) manufacturing has been difficult in the past and now that we have computerized machining and 3D printing, it might be easier to execute and 2) behavior in non-cruise attitudes (rotation, landing) might be a challenge as well. I can see challenges with flutter and shockwave formation arising with multiple wing-like elements at different angles.

But if they can achieve a 2% reduction in fuel consumption over existing designs, that would be a major improvement.

As for looks, the only feature that is ever found on the outside of an airplane that is for appearances is the paint scheme (and even the paint itself serves a functional role). Every other element of an airplane's exterior is designed with function in mind.

Is it likely that HiFly will be trialling these in pax operations, or perhaps lending a frame to Airbus for a more systematic approach to testing?

It would be lending a frame to the winglet company for testing/certification in exchange for PR and discount if product works/certified. HiFly can’t use uncertified winglets in commercial service.

Paint it yellow and you have a tweety bird.

Those look good on a bird, not a plane!

DocLightning wrote:

Every other element of an airplane's exterior is designed with function in mind.

That's just as well, otherwise there'd be huge question marks over the A380 and Short Skyvan. On the other hand, Concorde, 747 and A340 designers would be on top of the world!

ER757 wrote:

KFTG wrote:

Well those are hideous.

Anything that adds variety while spotting is fine by me

Amen to that. In a decade we will have very little variety as it is.

Those are the ugliest things i've ever seen. Don't ruin that beautiful airplane with those.

JerseyFlyer wrote:

Is it likely that HiFly will be trialling these in pax operations

My understanding is that if you are flying paying passengers, then the aircraft and everything on it must be fully certified within the jurisdiction within which it is flying. Otherwise, those are test pilots flying test passengers.

HiFly will, after conducting wind tunnel tests, need to test these on test aircraft first. Once they have EASA and FAA certification, then they can fly passengers.

ER757 wrote:

KFTG wrote:

Well those are hideous.

Anything that adds variety while spotting is fine by me

Agreed! I actually think it'll look pretty cool on air with a good wing flex.

At least it would look cooler.

This aircraft just likes beer very much! It wants to order three at once, MAX was satisfied with two. The others always get just one & will get jealous over time...

https://cgxev.artstation.com/projects/Jm0Q0

DocLightning wrote:

Once they have EASA and FAA certification, then they can fly passengers.

Pretty sure they only need EASA.

redcap1962 wrote:

This aircraft just likes beer very much! It wants to order three at once, MAX was satisfied with two. The others always get just one & will get jealous over time...

https://cgxev.artstation.com/projects/Jm0Q0

You mean 6 beers? 3 on each wing Aircraft is obviously a drunk, who else would order 3 liters of beer!

CRJ 900 wrote:

Those are the ugliest things i've ever seen. Don't ruin that beautiful airplane with those.

+1, it's ugly!
But if it's efficient then why not, It will be implemented on other aircraft type in the future

I can see why you guys hate it. But 2%? Sign me up. That’s huge. If I were Airbus I will take that for a relatively unattractive wingtip. It looks futuristic I guess

First of all, the airline is aiming to reduce fuel consumption by "up to 2%", not 2%...so God knows what that means...

Second, this claim is emanating from a Portuguese charter airline, not Airbus itself...

Third, this quaint excerpt from the article: "up to 40% of the total air resistance on a plane in cruise is a result of drag" ...

A 2% fuel saving is HUGE...I very much doubt this claim is based on sound and proven technical testing or other objective criteria...

But the idea is perhaps not inconceivable...and would make for a nice-looking bird...


Faro

How long are those things? Will they cause a problem with gate compatibility?

rj777 wrote:

How long are those things? Will they cause a problem with gate compatibility?

If anything, these should actually be shorter than the blended/scimitar solutions like the A330neo.

more info and images on HiFly's website

https://hifly.aero/media-center/new-technology-reduces-aircraft-carbon-emissions/

SANMAN66 wrote:

Those look good on a bird, not a plane!

Birds mastered aerodynamic efficiency millions of years ago. Why not replicate what has worked?

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/71606/are-there-advantages-to-slotted-wingtips

TWA302 wrote:

SANMAN66 wrote:

Those look good on a bird, not a plane!

Birds mastered aerodynamic efficiency millions of years ago. Why not replicate what has worked?

Because aircraft are not birds. Aircraft wings are different and aircraft land differently.

I would also point out that the albatross, a bird developed to cruise for long stretches, has different and more airliner-esque wingtips:





https://what-if.xkcd.com/149/

VSMUT wrote:

TWA302 wrote:

SANMAN66 wrote:

Those look good on a bird, not a plane!

Birds mastered aerodynamic efficiency millions of years ago. Why not replicate what has worked?

Because aircraft are not birds. Aircraft wings are different and aircraft land differently.

I would also point out that the albatross, a bird developed to cruise for long stretches, has different and more airliner-esque wingtips:





https://what-if.xkcd.com/149/

But engineers have used birds to help with design efficiencies. Ask Airbus


https://flyhigh.news/an-airbus-innovation-bird-of-prey-inspired-by-nature/?cn-reloaded=1