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panam330
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Re: Big United Announcement Coming Up?

Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:10 am

Am I the only one who’s underwhelmed, yet again, by these “HUGE ANNOUNCEMENT” proclamations? It’s a paper airplane. If it happens, wonderful, but color me surprised if it doesn’t.
 
jayunited
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Re: Big United Announcement Coming Up?

Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:11 am

Wow I am shocked I didn't see this coming. This is great news
 
superjeff
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Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:16 am

Looks like United is buying 15 Boom Supersonic jets with an option for another 35, SUBJECT TO MEETING THEIR STRINGENT SAFETY AND SUSTAINABILITY requirements. So it is either something, or nothing. . . .
 
Opus99
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Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:24 am

Okay. I wasn’t expecting that but United slightly overhyped. Okay. Can someone fill me in on the benefit that supersonic flight will bring with new technology that wasn’t shut down by Concorde? I actually mean that seriously. I’m quite interested in this new development
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:24 am

If this comes to fruition, it'll probably be the greatest aviation news/advancement in many of our lifetimes... but there's still a lottttt of road ahead, both engineering, certification, and even legislation, wise.

I mean, Concorde at one point had a lot of "orders" too.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
SunsetLimited
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Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:26 am

A huge bet on the future. Beyond impressive, in my opinion. Certainly not what I was expecting. But I will say I figured my chance to fly supersonic in my life went out the window when Concorde retired... so I’m fairly excited about this, should it happen.
Spread hope like fire.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:29 am

I don't think a single one of these will end up in United. If any of them are certified.

The contract is full of requirements and loopholes, very easy for United to get out of.

The timeline is way too aggressive. 2025 for rollout, 2026 for first flight and 2029 for carrying passengers.
 
IAD787
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Re: Big United Announcement Coming Up?

Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:35 am

travaz wrote:
Or Jon is receiving a substantial monetary inducement to get excited.


Lol.

IAD787
Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter turned Editor-in-chief of The Air Current.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:37 am

Next announcement will be they are funding research at 5 leading Universities to find some kind of fuel for it.

So what will come first -SST or room temperature liquid hydrogen? The fuel is actually tougher. dilithium crystals perhaps?
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    LAX772LR
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:37 am

    JetBuddy wrote:
    The timeline is way too aggressive. 2025 for rollout, 2026 for first flight and 2029 for carrying passengers.

    I mean, Concorde did it in 7yrs, and that was with blueprints and slide-rules.

    Who's to say modern advances can't shorten that a good bit?

    Heck, I'm far more worried about the legislative process: don't have a lot of confidence in a country that can't agree if wearing face-coverings in an airborne pandemic is a good idea; coming to grips with waste-powered supersonic aircraft evolution.
    I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
     
    VSMUT
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    Re: Big United Announcement Coming Up?

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:43 am

    NLINK wrote:
    They are going to announce an ultra long range 50 seater flown by GoJet :). Coast to coast.


    How depressingly close that was. It is indeed a 55 seater that can go coast to coast.
     
    vfw614
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:47 am

    Remains the question for which markets. Overland supersonic will still be a no-go, so I can really only see SFO to a few Asian and EWR/IAD to a few European destinations not too far away from the ocean. Does not make much sense to have it flying subsonic for long stretches.

    Not wanting to be a party pooper, but remember which airlines all ordered Concordes and how many actually operated it....
     
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    LAX772LR
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:49 am

    What's the range on an Overture proposed to be? They're talking about SFO-NRT.... I'm assuming that's via ANC or HNL or something.

    Also, why NRT? I get that it's just a placeholder-- but one would think that if time was of the essence, then this would have to go into HND, no?
    I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
     
    mm320cap
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:50 am

    A-net is so funny. “Underwhelming”. Underwhelming would be “We are adding a new destination in Europe”. Obviously there are a lot of things that need to happen for this to come to fruition. But you have to start somewhere, and this is where you start. And it’s a huge and interesting announcement.
    Last edited by mm320cap on Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
     
    Opus99
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:50 am

    LAX772LR wrote:
    What's the range on an Overture proposed to be? They're talking about SFO-NRT.... I'm assuming that's via ANC or HNL or something.

    Also, why NRT? I get that it's just a placeholder-- but one would think that if time was of the essence, then this would have to go into HND, no?

    Wiki is showing 8500KM
     
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    LAX772LR
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:53 am

    Opus99 wrote:
    LAX772LR wrote:
    What's the range on an Overture proposed to be?

    Wiki is showing 8500KM

    ....so basically an ultra-fast A321XLR. ;)
    I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
     
    PITFlyer330
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:05 pm

    Wow. just wow.
     
    WidebodyPTV
    Posts: 537
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:05 pm

    mm320cap wrote:
    A-net is so funny. “Underwhelming”. Underwhelming would be “We are adding a new destination in Europe”. Obviously there are a lot of things that need to happen for this to come to fruition. But you have to start somewhere, and this is where you start. And it’s a huge and interesting announcement.


    It’s hardly a huge and interesting announcement. There’s conflicting reports as to whether UA was required to make a cash deposit, and if they did, it was believed to be small. And as various publications, including the NYT, have pointed out, it’s highly questionable if the aircraft will ever get regulatory approval, let alone meet economic goals.
     
    PHLspecial
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:08 pm

    So United expects the plane to be net-zero carbon emissions and optimize to run on 100% sustainable fuel.

    My guess both is not happening. Synthetic fuels are being develop but it's super expensive at the moment and I don't know how far along carbon capture technology. Basically they will have a really fast plane? Either it's a paper plane in 2029 or this plane will be delayed for couple years and not ready by 2029
     
    airbazar
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:17 pm

    LAX772LR wrote:
    If this comes to fruition, it'll probably be the greatest aviation news/advancement in many of our lifetimes... but there's still a lottttt of road ahead, both engineering, certification, and even legislation, wise.

    I mean, Concorde at one point had a lot of "orders" too.


    I agree. We also have to remember that Concorde was actually profitable for the airlines so it is a somewhat proven business model. And today's market is significantly larger and more fragmented than it was when Concord was flying. There are probably 4 or 5 TATL city pairs where this would work, at 2-3x daily that's your initial 15 orders. I'm excited :)
     
    PHLspecial
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:19 pm

    JetBuddy wrote:
    I don't think a single one of these will end up in United. If any of them are certified.

    The contract is full of requirements and loopholes, very easy for United to get out of.

    The timeline is way too aggressive. 2025 for rollout, 2026 for first flight and 2029 for carrying passengers.

    I think the company is still trying to raise funds and I don't think that United has invested into the company.
     
    Opus99
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:19 pm

    Can someone talk a bit about the regulatory issues around supersonic flight. Is it noise? Or ?
     
    aumaverick
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:21 pm

    Why is everyone so overwhelmed? For once, you have a real chance of seeing an airliner that is not just a tube with wings and two engines slung underneath. They have a technology demonstrator built and scheduled to start flying. They are using the same digital modeling and scalable testing as we're seeing the major heavy military contractors using (i.e. B-21, T-7, NGAD). Let's not forget what Space-X has managed to achieve in their relatively short life time.
    I'm just here so I won't get fined. - Marshawn Lynch
     
    Opus99
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:26 pm

    aumaverick wrote:
    Why is everyone so overwhelmed? For once, you have a real chance of seeing an airliner that is not just a tube with wings and two engines slung underneath. They have a technology demonstrator built and scheduled to start flying. They are using the same digital modeling and scalable testing as we're seeing the major heavy military contractors using (i.e. B-21, T-7, NGAD). Let's not forget what Space-X has managed to achieve in their relatively short life time.

    I’m definitely looking forward to it. I hope they get it out nicely and on time and it has the potential to be a market success. Assuming the schedule goes as planned. I can see the big 3 in Europe ordering as well. So BA, LH, AF, I can see ME3 with it as well. Also very popular in the Asian market where there’s a lot of business travel. It can do a lot. There’s just a HUGE heap to get throufh to bring it to market. I’m not worried about the engineering seeing as it has been done before without more simple technology.
     
    shawnbambilini
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:33 pm

    Opus99 wrote:
    Can someone talk a bit about the regulatory issues around supersonic flight. Is it noise? Or ?


    I think the main issues that supersonic aircraft have had were with regards to noise, fuel efficiency, and demand. However, NASA is working with reducing the volume of the supersonic boom, with technology from that project potentially being implemented into the Overture. With fuel efficiency, it won't be an issue here as the aircraft has the capabilities of sustainable flight, allowing it to create more fuel using the carbon from the air.

    The only potential issue I see here is with demand. I'll link the article I read about this below, but it spoke about the size of the aircraft with respect to the ticket prices. Because the aircraft is built to aerodynamically support supersonic flight, compromises had to be made with seating. At maximum, the aircraft would probably be able to hold 100 passengers, with airport slot prices still being fixed. This coupled with the potentially high demand at a low price would cause the prices for these flights to increase, potentially diminishing the profitability of this campaign.

    https://aeroxplorer.com/articles/united ... y-2029.php
     
    AAIL86
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    Re: Big United Announcement Coming Up?

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:34 pm

    panam330 wrote:
    Am I the only one who’s underwhelmed, yet again, by these “HUGE ANNOUNCEMENT” proclamations? It’s a paper airplane. If it happens, wonderful, but color me surprised if it doesn’t.


    Massive announcement, even if nothing comes of it long term. When was the last time a global major tried supersonic?
    So to those haters who said this announcement was nothing, you lose, this time :)
    " Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness ... Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. ” - Mark Twain, 1869
     
    Ziyulu
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:35 pm

    I was having dinner with friends, and one couple said we would definitely see such planes in the next year (it was 2017 back then). I wonder how long will it take to start revenue flights?
     
    Jshank83
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    Re: Big United Announcement Coming Up?

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:36 pm

    Diverskii wrote:


    I really didn’t think any legacies would sign on. I guess I was thinking they would be their own airline. Makes it a bit more relevant for me. Good luck.
     
    IFlyVeryLittle
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:39 pm

    Im announcing this morning, direct to you, the A.Net audience, that I'm planning to buy a 2025 Mazda Miata, provided it meets my financial expectations and my wife's safety and practicality benchmarks. Let's see who is first with their dream machine: me or United.
     
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    CLEguy
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:42 pm

    PASSENGER CAPACITY: 65 to 88
    CRUISING ALTITUDE: 60,000 FT
    CARBON: NET-ZERO
    LENGTH: 205 FT
    SPEED: MACH 1.7
    RANGE: 4250 NM (4888 MI)

    More information about the Boom Overture: https://boomsupersonic.com/overture
     
    Fuling
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:45 pm

    I literally saw this and thought it was one of those "I think I'm good at photo-shop", April Fools posts on Insta. Then realised it was posted by United.
     
    NLINK
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:54 pm

    I think this is very cool. Nice to see some thinking outside the box. Business travelers would be willing to pay for certain routes for the speed. It doesn't look like it has the legs to do the pacific when factoring in winds but I could see routes such as NYC-LHR, NYC-CDG, NYC-FRA working out.
     
    SRQLOT
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:59 pm

    I hope this comes thru! Not a United fan, but I still think it’s exciting even if this means that there is more temporary backing behind Boom. How hard would it be for United to fly from SFO to all these huge pacific cities and not fill these planes up??
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    a320fan
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:00 pm

    No way will these be flying pax by 2029.
    This whole thing just feels like an April 1st joke, and doesn’t reflect well on United as a professional organisation.
    A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A350-900, A380, 737-700, 737-800, 777-200ER, 777-300, 777-300ER, 787-8, Q300, Q400
     
    Opus99
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:02 pm

    To be fair. They’ve earmarked 3 years for testing and certification.

    The engineering shouldn’t be that difficult given its been done before. It plans to be built from composite. I wonder what the fuel burn will be
     
    PSU.DTW.SCE
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:03 pm

    Sweet! In 2029 I can fly on a Boom XB-1 from LHR-EWR then to connect on to a 4-hour delayed ERJ-145 to TYS !

    I'm all about taking a moonshot and innovation, but I cannot fathom the amount of regulatory hurdles and sruntity this project will take.
    Look at all of the recent challenges with aircraft programs launched by A & B in recent times that were not clean-sheet net-new structural, propulsion, or systems integration.

    Anybody remember the Boeing Sonic Crusier?
     
    LHAM
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:06 pm

    Hopefully United hasn't put any money down for this order let alone the customary 5% or more.
    And if they have I hope they are in an escrow account.
     
    Ziyulu
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:06 pm

    55 passenger capacity? That's less than many regional jets. I wonder what type of routes can be served efficiently.
     
    ZazuPIT
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    Re: Big United Announcement Coming Up?

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:08 pm

    Scarebus34 wrote:
    Some of y'all really need to think before posting. Good grief.


    For real. Speculation threads amuse me. If every person got their wish, every airport would have 5,000 departures a day, Breeze would fly a shuttle between Paducah and Boise, and Southwest would have a fleet of Airbus A220-900s.
     
    elbandgeek
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:13 pm

    It sounds like in lieu of being a "firm" order, UA is committing their infrastructure to the flight testing program so I don't think it's as much of a pipe dream as some of the posts are suggesting. They won't buy it if it doesn't deliver, but they're investing in seeing that it does so it's not like this is just a PR stunt.
     
    catiii
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:13 pm

    IFlyVeryLittle wrote:
    Im announcing this morning, direct to you, the A.Net audience, that I'm planning to buy a 2025 Mazda Miata, provided it meets my financial expectations and my wife's safety and practicality benchmarks. Let's see who is first with their dream machine: me or United.


    Well in as much as yours is in 2025, and Boom comes in 2029...probably you.
     
    btfarrwm
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:15 pm

    West Coast to Hawaii would be awesome supersonic. 2 hr flight time arriving before you leave. If they can stretch the range a little bit, they could fly LAX -> HNL -> SYD.

    Logistically, this also makes sense for UA. Many of their hubs are coastal (EWR, SFO, IAH, GUM, IAD, LAX) and they could maximize over-water routing for SST flights. Hawaii, Europe, Mexico, Asia, the Caribbean and South America would all be accessible without over-land flying.
    Last edited by btfarrwm on Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:32 pm, edited 4 times in total.
     
    mjgbtv
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:20 pm

    SFO? Do I hear NSSTIMBY?
     
    Sooner787
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:23 pm

    Now let's see if AA or DL or other intl blue chip airlines jump on this bandwagon.

    If this comes to fruition, the other airlines can't risk getting left behind :)
     
    kiowa
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:29 pm

    Sooner787 wrote:
    Now let's see if AA or DL or other intl blue chip airlines jump on this bandwagon.

    If this comes to fruition, the other airlines can't risk getting left behind :)



    True, and pretty cool that United is investing/interested in such an aviation leap.
     
    Western727
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:30 pm

    Yet another speculative aircraft. I'll believe it when I see it.
    Jack @ AUS
     
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    scbriml
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:32 pm

    aumaverick wrote:
    Why is everyone so overwhelmed?


    Don't you mean underwhelmed? Because this whole "order" is premised on quite a few "ifs" and most of them are huge.

    Add me to the list of underwhelmed. Wake me up when the first United Overture is lined up on the runway ready to depart on its first supersonic passenger flight.
    Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
    There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
     
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    JerseyFlyer
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:35 pm

    There are similar "orders" in place already from other airlines - from Wiki which has been updated for today's UA announcement:

    "In March 2016, Richard Branson confirmed that Virgin Group holds options for 10 aircraft and Virgin Galactic's subsidiary The Spaceship Company will aid in manufacturing and testing the jet.[9] An unnamed European carrier also holds options for 15 aircraft; the two deals total 5 billion dollars.[10] At the 2017 Paris Air Show, 51 commitments were added for a backlog of 76 with significant deposits.[8] In December 2017, Japan Airlines was confirmed to have pre-ordered up to 20 jets among the commitments to 76 from five airlines.[3] Boom CEO Blake Scholl thinks 2,000 supersonic jets will connect 500 cities and promises £2,000 for London to New York one-way, comparable with existing subsonic business class.[11]...On June 3rd, 2021, United Airlines announced they had signed an agreement to purchase up to 50 Overture aircraft, expecting to start passenger flights by 2029.[12]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_Overture

    And news around the collaboration with RR on the propulsion system (from last year):

    https://www.aero-mag.com/rolls-royce-bo ... -06082020/
    Last edited by JerseyFlyer on Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
     
    T4thH
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:39 pm

    So they want to fly with these birds only regional in the US. OK.... they will not fly over the EU and above anyone else in the world (with exception inside of the borders of US?).
     
    btfarrwm
    Posts: 147
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    Re: United orders supersonic planes from Boom (was: Big United Announcement Coming Up?)

    Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:40 pm

    Maybe now Boeing will just buy Boom and make the NSA an SST. :stirthepot:
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    Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

    Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

    Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

    Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

    Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

    Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

    Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

    Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos