Boeing offers 777X Freighter to QR. Eyeing Order for 30

Opus99 · Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:21 pm

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-06-03/

Well if you didn’t think a freighter was coming. Think again

777XF now in play

TC957 · Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:28 pm

Don't think Boeing has much choice but to push for 778F sales. Don't see any orders coming for passenger 77X varients for a long time. If anything, I forsee more cancellations.

Opus99 · Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:32 pm

TC957 wrote:
Don't think Boeing has much choice but to push for 778F sales. Don't see any orders coming for passenger 77X varients for a long time. If anything, I forsee more cancellations.

At least it gives them the opportunity to negotiate with some carriers to maybe move some orders to this instead of cancelling the whole thing completely

zkojq · Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:35 pm

In April, the Gulf carrier said it was interested in a 777X freighter but had not been told by Boeing of any plans to launch one. But speaking to Reuters on Thursday, Chief Executive Akbar Al Baker said a cargo 777X was now on the table as the airline ponders a freighter order from Boeing or Airbus (AIR.PA).

"Qatar Airways is very interested in purchasing a large fleet of freighters because we have to now start replacing our old freighters," he said in an interview in St Petersburg.

A new order or a conversion of their existing 777-8X order? :scratchchin:

Not that Akbar would ever admit to over ordering.

scbriml · Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:36 pm

Opus99 wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Don't think Boeing has much choice but to push for 778F sales. Don't see any orders coming for passenger 77X varients for a long time. If anything, I forsee more cancellations.

At least it gives them the opportunity to negotiate with some carriers to maybe move some orders to this instead of cancelling the whole thing completely

I think it's very possible that QR will convert some pax frames to freighters.

Rifitto · Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:37 pm

If somehow Boeing manages to clinch these 30 orders , i don't see how Airbus could get the needed 50 to launch a 350F ,

aside QR , i don't see any other carrier willing to place such a big order ,

even the hot selling and well established 77F is getting small orders (but consistent) , rarely by double digit

seems that Boeing is willing to do whatever is needed to keep it's rival out of the widebody freighter market ,
and giving it's 77X backlog a precious boost at the same time ,

interesting times ahead

Opus99 · Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:39 pm

scbriml wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Don't think Boeing has much choice but to push for 778F sales. Don't see any orders coming for passenger 77X varients for a long time. If anything, I forsee more cancellations.

At least it gives them the opportunity to negotiate with some carriers to maybe move some orders to this instead of cancelling the whole thing completely

I think it's very possible that QR will convert some pax frames to freighters.

Of course. Don’t forget they have 10 -8 passengers. You can forget about those now I think. They’ll probably move those to freighters. If not more -9s

Along with compensation credits from the obvious delays

Rifitto · Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:42 pm

scbriml wrote:

I think it's very possible that QR will convert some pax frames to freighters.

AAB said he is taking them all ,he didn't mention any possible conversion

"With Boeing we have no issue, with Boeing we have a large 777X order and we will take those airplanes"

ClipperYankee · Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:03 pm

There is a pulse at Boeing! It's not NMA or anything huge but it's still a ray of good news.

scbriml · Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:13 pm

Rifitto wrote:
scbriml wrote:

I think it's very possible that QR will convert some pax frames to freighters.

AAB said he is taking them all ,he didn't mention any possible conversion

"With Boeing we have no issue, with Boeing we have a large 777X order and we will take those airplanes"

If those are his actual words, then the word "all" doesn't appear as you implied, and a -8F would be part of the 777X family, no?

Rifitto · Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:40 pm

scbriml wrote:

If those are his actual words, then the word "all" doesn't appear as you implied, and a -8F would be part of the 777X family, no?

He said he is taking all 77X on order ,he did not indicate a possible conversion to the -F ,nor linked between the two

it's the second time in the span of a week he stats he is taking deliveries of the planes when ready ,whether the 77XF is launched or not ,
his words are very clear

could he swap the -8 for the -F ? possible ,but til AAB announce it ,i will bet for a new order

Delta28L · Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:47 pm

Opus99 wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/exclusive-boeing-offers-new-777x-freighter-qatar-eyes-order-airline-says-2021-06-03/

Well if you didn’t think a freighter was coming. Think again

777XF now in play

They should offer the 777XF to UPS and FEDEX as well to test the demand for 777XF

Opus99 · Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:50 pm

Delta28L wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/exclusive-boeing-offers-new-777x-freighter-qatar-eyes-order-airline-says-2021-06-03/

Well if you didn’t think a freighter was coming. Think again

777XF now in play

They should offer the 777XF to UPS and FEDEX as well to test the demand for 777XF

They must be. Let’s see how it goes

jbs2886 · Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:44 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Delta28L wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/exclusive-boeing-offers-new-777x-freighter-qatar-eyes-order-airline-says-2021-06-03/

Well if you didn’t think a freighter was coming. Think again

777XF now in play

They should offer the 777XF to UPS and FEDEX as well to test the demand for 777XF

They must be. Let’s see how it goes

Probably good for a number of 747F carriers with 777Xs on order; namely SQ and CX (although SQ definitely as it doesn't have any replacements for its 744Fs whereas Cathay still have the 748Fs).

Someone83 · Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:04 pm

Guess Boeing has to do something to save the 777X program...

tomcat · Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:11 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Delta28L wrote:

They should offer the 777XF to UPS and FEDEX as well to test the demand for 777XF

They must be. Let’s see how it goes

Probably good for a number of 747F carriers with 777Xs on order; namely SQ and CX (although SQ definitely as it doesn't have any replacements for its 744Fs whereas Cathay still have the 748Fs).

Cargolux as well. According to wiki, they still have 16 744F/ERF in their fleet.

I'm really curious to see the spec of this proposed 777XF.

Revelation · Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:13 pm

Rifitto wrote:
If somehow Boeing manages to clinch these 30 orders , i don't see how Airbus could get the needed 50 to launch a 350F ,

Seems like a "poop or get off the pot" moment for A350F.

Rifitto wrote:
scbriml wrote:
If those are his actual words, then the word "all" doesn't appear as you implied, and a -8F would be part of the 777X family, no?

He said he is taking all 77X on order ,he did not indicate a possible conversion to the -F ,nor linked between the two

it's the second time in the span of a week he stats he is taking deliveries of the planes when ready ,whether the 77XF is launched or not ,
his words are very clear

could he swap the -8 for the -F ? possible ,but til AAB announce it ,i will bet for a new order

Yes, also said the same thing in Sept 2020: https://www.airlineratings.com/news/wil ... r-airways/

Wiki ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777X#Orders ) says QR has 60 779 on order, so there are no 778s to convert if it is correct.

jbs2886 · Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:14 pm

tomcat wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
They must be. Let’s see how it goes

Probably good for a number of 747F carriers with 777Xs on order; namely SQ and CX (although SQ definitely as it doesn't have any replacements for its 744Fs whereas Cathay still have the 748Fs).

Cargolux as well. According to wiki, they still have 16 744F/ERF in their fleet.

I'm really curious to see the spec of this proposed 777XF.

I was just pointing out those with 777X (passenger) already on order. Certainly Cargolux, KE, etc. as well.

Opus99 · Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:15 pm

Revelation wrote:
Rifitto wrote:
If somehow Boeing manages to clinch these 30 orders , i don't see how Airbus could get the needed 50 to launch a 350F ,

Seems like a "poop or get off the pot" moment for A350F.

Rifitto wrote:
scbriml wrote:
If those are his actual words, then the word "all" doesn't appear as you implied, and a -8F would be part of the 777X family, no?

He said he is taking all 77X on order ,he did not indicate a possible conversion to the -F ,nor linked between the two

it's the second time in the span of a week he stats he is taking deliveries of the planes when ready ,whether the 77XF is launched or not ,
his words are very clear

could he swap the -8 for the -F ? possible ,but til AAB announce it ,i will bet for a new order

Yes, also said the same thing in Sept 2020: https://www.airlineratings.com/news/wil ... r-airways/

Wiki ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777X#Orders ) says QR has 60 779 on order, so there are no 778s to convert if it is correct.

Wiki got that one wrong unfortunately. Still remains 50 -9s and 10 -8s. I see -8 conversion and then top up if he goes Boeing. Personally I think he will because it will probably work out cheaper for him with all the credits they’ll have. They also max compensation credits too

VV · Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:21 pm

Didn't someone in Qatar say they would be interested to order A350F?

What's going on?

Is it just a way for one manufacturer to know what the other is doing using Qatar as the information source?

Opus99 · Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:21 pm

Calhoun says he sees the 777X frog jet heading towards launch but they have not yet gone to board for approvals.

https://www.marketscreener.com/news/lat ... -35514366/

https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 14240?s=21

Opus99 · Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:23 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Calhoun says he sees the 777X frog jet heading towards launch but they have not yet gone to board for approvals.

https://www.marketscreener.com/news/lat ... -35514366/

https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 14240?s=21

The first link is opening the wrong article. Don’t know why

Opus99 · Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:24 pm

VV wrote:
Didn't someone in Qatar say they would be interested to order A350F?

What's going on?

Is it just a way for one manufacturer to know what the other is doing using Qatar as the information source?

Both are up for contention. It depends on who gives who the better deal I think

SEPilot · Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:30 pm

I never believed that Boeing was going to make the old 777F alongside the 777X for long. Different wing, engines, cockpit, and so much more. While the 77F will likely get more orders now that it is the biggest freighter available those orders will not be enough to make a separate line viable.

oldJoe · Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:41 pm

Revelation wrote:
Rifitto wrote:
If somehow Boeing manages to clinch these 30 orders , i don't see how Airbus could get the needed 50 to launch a 350F ,

Seems like a "poop or get off the pot" moment for A350F.

Rifitto wrote:
scbriml wrote:
If those are his actual words, then the word "all" doesn't appear as you implied, and a -8F would be part of the 777X family, no?

He said he is taking all 77X on order ,he did not indicate a possible conversion to the -F ,nor linked between the two

it's the second time in the span of a week he stats he is taking deliveries of the planes when ready ,whether the 77XF is launched or not ,
his words are very clear

could he swap the -8 for the -F ? possible ,but til AAB announce it ,i will bet for a new order

Yes, also said the same thing in Sept 2020: https://www.airlineratings.com/news/wil ... r-airways/

Wiki ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777X#Orders ) says QR has 60 779 on order, so there are no 778s to convert if it is correct.

Can it be that Qatar is currently or in the near future not able to pay that if I consider that they currently have a load factor of 40% (passengers) and have received 3 billion from the state to survive

lightsaber · Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:08 pm

Rifitto wrote:
If somehow Boeing manages to clinch these 30 orders , i don't see how Airbus could get the needed 50 to launch a 350F ,

aside QR , i don't see any other carrier willing to place such a big order ,

even the hot selling and well established 77F is getting small orders (but consistent) , rarely by double digit

seems that Boeing is willing to do whatever is needed to keep it's rival out of the widebody freighter market ,
and giving it's 77X backlog a precious boost at the same time ,

interesting times ahead

This would be the launch order for either the 777xF or A350F. QR just became the bell of the ball warts, halitosis, and missing teeth and all.

Don't kid ourselves, both Airbus and Boeing want this order. For the 777x, it is a much needed lifeline. While less critical for the A350F, launching the Airbus freighter is unlikely if Boeing wins. Boeing might have no choice, even if they loose.

In my opinion, this order determines a big part of who dominates freight as others will become launch customers.

Lightsaber

Revelation · Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:13 pm

oldJoe wrote:
Can it be that Qatar is currently or in the near future not able to pay that if I consider that they currently have a load factor of 40% (passengers) and have received 3 billion from the state to survive

QR is government owned and their nation is quite wealthy, I don't think it's a matter of not being able to pay.

I think they are serious about wanting to replace their freighters as they age out.

It is a good opportunity for both A and B, QR was one of the few A330F customers, so A has a nose in the tent.

We had a long running thread about the potential launch of the A350F, IMO QR would be one of the companies that could help make that happen.

It'll be interesting to see what comes of it.

VSMUT wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Wiki ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777X#Orders ) says QR has 60 779 on order, so there are no 778s to convert if it is correct.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150615114 ... Freighters

Boeing [NYSE: BA] and Qatar Airways announced an order for 10 777-8Xs and four 777 Freighters, valued at $4.8 billion at list prices, on the opening day of Paris Air Show 2015.

"Acquiring technologically-advanced airplanes such as the 777X is integral to our expansion strategy," said His Excellency Mr. Akbar Al Baker, CEO, Qatar Airways. "With the addition of these 777-8X to the 50 777-9X already on order, we are confident of continuing the tremendous legacy of the 777.

Thanks for providing the correct info!

All this feels a lot like the days where Boeing was trying to launch both B77L and B77F. We'd hear of potential orders for each emerging then disappearing, but in the end both got built. I think it'll be the same for 778 and the new 77F.

jbs2886 · Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:29 pm

Revelation wrote:
oldJoe wrote:
Can it be that Qatar is currently or in the near future not able to pay that if I consider that they currently have a load factor of 40% (passengers) and have received 3 billion from the state to survive

QR is government owned and their nation is quite wealthy, I don't think it's a matter of not being able to pay.

I think they are serious about wanting to replace their freighters as they age out.

It is a good opportunity for both A and B, QR was one of the few A330F customers, so A has a nose in the tent.

We had a long running thread about the potential launch of the A350F, IMO QR would be one of the companies that could help make that happen.

It'll be interesting to see what comes of it.

VSMUT wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Wiki ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777X#Orders ) says QR has 60 779 on order, so there are no 778s to convert if it is correct.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150615114 ... Freighters

Boeing [NYSE: BA] and Qatar Airways announced an order for 10 777-8Xs and four 777 Freighters, valued at $4.8 billion at list prices, on the opening day of Paris Air Show 2015.

"Acquiring technologically-advanced airplanes such as the 777X is integral to our expansion strategy," said His Excellency Mr. Akbar Al Baker, CEO, Qatar Airways. "With the addition of these 777-8X to the 50 777-9X already on order, we are confident of continuing the tremendous legacy of the 777.

Thanks for providing the correct info!

All this feels a lot like the days where Boeing was trying to launch both B77L and B77F. We'd hear of potential orders for each emerging then disappearing, but in the end both got built. I think it'll be the same for 778 and the new 77F.

The 778 order probably was changed on Wiki when Boeing announced it was putting the 778 on ice for the time being (although we do not have confirmation any orders have changed).

oldJoe · Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:21 pm

Revelation wrote:
oldJoe wrote:
Can it be that Qatar is currently or in the near future not able to pay that if I consider that they currently have a load factor of 40% (passengers) and have received 3 billion from the state to survive

QR is government owned and their nation is quite wealthy, I don't think it's a matter of not being able to pay.

I think they are serious about wanting to replace their freighters as they age out.

It is a good opportunity for both A and B, QR was one of the few A330F customers, so A has a nose in the tent.

We had a long running thread about the potential launch of the A350F, IMO QR would be one of the companies that could help make that happen.

It'll be interesting to see what comes of it.

VSMUT wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Wiki ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777X#Orders ) says QR has 60 779 on order, so there are no 778s to convert if it is correct.

Yes Qatar is an airline and is totally dependent on oil and gas exports and the question is how long if other exporting countries bring you to your knees
https://web.archive.org/web/20150615114 ... Freighters

Boeing [NYSE: BA] and Qatar Airways announced an order for 10 777-8Xs and four 777 Freighters, valued at $4.8 billion at list prices, on the opening day of Paris Air Show 2015.

"Acquiring technologically-advanced airplanes such as the 777X is integral to our expansion strategy," said His Excellency Mr. Akbar Al Baker, CEO, Qatar Airways. "With the addition of these 777-8X to the 50 777-9X already on order, we are confident of continuing the tremendous legacy of the 777.

Thanks for providing the correct info!

All this feels a lot like the days where Boeing was trying to launch both B77L and B77F. We'd hear of potential orders for each emerging then disappearing, but in the end both got built. I think it'll be the same for 778 and the new 77F.

TC957 · Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:23 pm

That QR cargo saying they want the 778F is also a shot across the bows at Airbus with their on-going spat.

Opus99 · Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:43 pm

Is it possible for a launch of one of them to come this Dubai airshow? In November?

Just for ref. I’m putting my money on XF. I know many will disagree with me but that’s just what I think

SteelChair · Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:50 pm

Didn't Qatar just park their last A330 freighters?

Wouldn't one expect freighter demand to decrease coming out of C19? Unless Qatar has a contract with Amazon or something....

I do agree with others that it would seem to make sense for Boeing to want to terminate 777F production and switch over to 777XF,

It seems to me that AAB just likes seeing his name in the aviation news.

Geoff1947 · Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:53 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Rifitto wrote:
If somehow Boeing manages to clinch these 30 orders , i don't see how Airbus could get the needed 50 to launch a 350F ,

Seems like a "poop or get off the pot" moment for A350F.

Rifitto wrote:
He said he is taking all 77X on order ,he did not indicate a possible conversion to the -F ,nor linked between the two

it's the second time in the span of a week he stats he is taking deliveries of the planes when ready ,whether the 77XF is launched or not ,
his words are very clear

could he swap the -8 for the -F ? possible ,but til AAB announce it ,i will bet for a new order

Yes, also said the same thing in Sept 2020: https://www.airlineratings.com/news/wil ... r-airways/

Wiki ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777X#Orders ) says QR has 60 779 on order, so there are no 778s to convert if it is correct.

Wiki got that one wrong unfortunately. Still remains 50 -9s and 10 -8s. I see -8 conversion and then top up if he goes Boeing. Personally I think he will because it will probably work out cheaper for him with all the credits they’ll have. They also max compensation credits too

Boeing stopped identifying the -8 and the -9 separately several years ago. They report all unfilled orders simply as 777X. It’s a guess whether there are still any orders for the 777-8. My guess is that the -8 goes the same way as the A350-800.

Geoff

VSMUT · Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:51 am

jbs2886 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
oldJoe wrote:
Can it be that Qatar is currently or in the near future not able to pay that if I consider that they currently have a load factor of 40% (passengers) and have received 3 billion from the state to survive

QR is government owned and their nation is quite wealthy, I don't think it's a matter of not being able to pay.

I think they are serious about wanting to replace their freighters as they age out.

It is a good opportunity for both A and B, QR was one of the few A330F customers, so A has a nose in the tent.

We had a long running thread about the potential launch of the A350F, IMO QR would be one of the companies that could help make that happen.

It'll be interesting to see what comes of it.

VSMUT wrote:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150615114 ... Freighters

Thanks for providing the correct info!

All this feels a lot like the days where Boeing was trying to launch both B77L and B77F. We'd hear of potential orders for each emerging then disappearing, but in the end both got built. I think it'll be the same for 778 and the new 77F.

The 778 order probably was changed on Wiki when Boeing announced it was putting the 778 on ice for the time being (although we do not have confirmation any orders have changed).

You can always refer to the customer airlines Wikipedia pages. Those still tally up the different variants.

FluidFlow · Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:01 am

If Boeing wins it kills the 777-8 as a passenger version, what is probably a good thing. Boeing will have the excuse to design the frame perfectly for payload and can take all the extra range bits out. It is a must win for Boeing to keep the 777 with any hope of profitability and even that will be debatable (747-8 as example) but with no F version the 777 will be drowning.

So it comes as no surprise that Boeing pitches the XF now, the 777 line needs orders to survive. Question is, how cheap do they have to offer and who ever is willing to trade in the A380s might get the deal in the end.

seahawk · Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:29 am

Who ever doubted that the 777-8F will launch?

brindabella · Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:00 pm

scbriml wrote:
Rifitto wrote:
scbriml wrote:

I think it's very possible that QR will convert some pax frames to freighters.

AAB said he is taking them all ,he didn't mention any possible conversion

"With Boeing we have no issue, with Boeing we have a large 777X order and we will take those airplanes"

If those are his actual words, then the word "all" doesn't appear as you implied, and a -8F would be part of the 777X family, no?

No?

No reason to think that it implies what you say either. :wave:

No reason whatsoever.

cheers

NZ321 · Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:29 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Didn't Qatar just park their last A330 freighters?

Wouldn't one expect freighter demand to decrease coming out of C19? Unless Qatar has a contract with Amazon or something....

I do agree with others that it would seem to make sense for Boeing to want to terminate 777F production and switch over to 777XF,

It seems to me that AAB just likes seeing his name in the aviation news.

I think I'd have to agree with you. And using leverage to get every benefit he can for his airline. In that order

Faro · Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:39 pm

The 77X freighter will easily be the most expensive freighter around...I wonder how its overall cost --ie, cost of ownership + running costs-- will stack up against acquiring 77F's or converted 777-300ER freighters...

QR's papa has very very deep pockets, yes...but is it really that worthwhile to dole out billions upon billions for spanking-new, top-of-the-line aircraft when much less cash-hungry alternatives are available?...

Faro

Weatherwatcher1 · Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:46 pm

Faro wrote:
The 77X freighter will easily be the most expensive freighter around...I wonder how its overall cost --ie, cost of ownership + running costs-- will stack up against acquiring 77F's or converted 777-300ER freighters...

QR's papa has very very deep pockets, yes...but is it really that worthwhile to dole out billions upon billions for spanking-new, top-of-the-line aircraft when much less cash-hungry alternatives are available?...

Faro

The 777-300ERSF is great for being a package freighter. It has a large cargo volume compared to its useable payload. And will replace 747-400 converted freighters. That works well for airlines carrying express freight. It isn’t the best for carrying denser cargo like produce, electronics, etc Sind wit runs out of payload before the plane will be full.. The 747-8 remains the best plane for that type of operation with its high payload. I suspect the 777X Freighter will fill the gap left by the 747-8F for heavy freight.

Opus99 · Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:50 pm

Faro wrote:
The 77X freighter will easily be the most expensive freighter around...I wonder how its overall cost --ie, cost of ownership + running costs-- will stack up against acquiring 77F's or converted 777-300ER freighters...

QR's papa has very very deep pockets, yes...but is it really that worthwhile to dole out billions upon billions for spanking-new, top-of-the-line aircraft when much less cash-hungry alternatives are available?...

Faro

Boeing knows the market they’re going into with this new jet. They have to be sensible with their pricing. I read on Leeham that fedex were potentially interested back in 2019 but they wanted EIS for 2026. Now though they could work for Boeing. It didn’t before

SEPilot · Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:43 pm

It is way too soon to declare the 777X a failure. Nobody expects it to be the runaway success that the 77W was, but it still has a chance to achieve decent results. It will have the best per seat economics available, and it is not that much bigger than its alternatives. The pandemic has thrown the entire airline industry into totally unprecedented territory, with consequences for the airlines only a world war could rival. So those effects need to be dealt with and normality restored before we can have any reasonable idea on how the 777X will fare long term.

NameOmitted · Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:48 pm

Faro wrote:
QR's papa has very very deep pockets, yes...but is it really that worthwhile to dole out billions upon billions for spanking-new, top-of-the-line aircraft when much less cash-hungry alternatives are available?...

I think we've recently seen that QR having a robust cargo capacity is a matter of national security. Having a fleet of large, young, reliable birds may be worth the price premium.

Sooner787 · Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:53 pm

SEPilot wrote:
It is way too soon to declare the 777X a failure. Nobody expects it to be the runaway success that the 77W was, but it still has a chance to achieve decent results. It will have the best per seat economics available, and it is not that much bigger than its alternatives. The pandemic has thrown the entire airline industry into totally unprecedented territory, with consequences for the airlines only a world war could rival. So those effects need to be dealt with and normality restored before we can have any reasonable idea on how the 777X will fare long term.

Well said. Irony is if the 777X program had tracked as originally scheduled, Boeing would've had a several 777x's
painted up and ready to deliver by now, but few customers in a position to accept delivery.

Naincompetent · Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:14 pm

Also, about all those who believe that Boeing will cancel the program, one has to understand that most of the cost is behind them.
That means that as long as the future revenue is enough to offset the ongoing development costs, it is worth continuing the development.
Money which went out of the pocket last year is already a sunken cost and totally irrelevant for present decisions

CALMSP · Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:20 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Didn't Qatar just park their last A330 freighters?

Wouldn't one expect freighter demand to decrease coming out of C19? Unless Qatar has a contract with Amazon or something....

I do agree with others that it would seem to make sense for Boeing to want to terminate 777F production and switch over to 777XF,

It seems to me that AAB just likes seeing his name in the aviation news.

Even if freighter demand does decrease, QR wants to make sure that they are the biggest, regardless if there is enough demand to fill everything. Look no further than their pax operation over the last year.

frmrCapCadet · Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:31 pm

seahawk wrote:
Who ever doubted that the 777-8F will launch?

I think there was some serious discussion that the 777X was not as well adapted to being a freighter as was the 777.

PixelPilot · Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:35 pm

That will be a glorious-looking freighter.

Revelation · Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:49 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Didn't Qatar just park their last A330 freighters?

Actually QR sold off their A330F, they are now being operated by another company -- https://simpleflying.com/france-a330-200f-new/

Hope no one sees this as me taking a shot at A330F, my point is the opposite: QR presumably has good contacts at Airbus and knows their products well and presumably can provide valuable input on what it wants to see in a A350F. Even more true since it has a large number of 777F. Selling off A330F is mostly about QR wanting to keep a young fleet, at least that's what AAB said about it.

SteelChair wrote:
Wouldn't one expect freighter demand to decrease coming out of C19? Unless Qatar has a contract with Amazon or something....

I do agree with others that it would seem to make sense for Boeing to want to terminate 777F production and switch over to 777XF,

It seems to me that AAB just likes seeing his name in the aviation news.

Will say again that QR is a government owned entity and after embargoes learned that having a lot of long range general cargo main deck freighters is a good thing, and would be a fine launch customer for either A350F or 77XF or both. They have the money and the desire to spend it. For this you put up with a bunch of complaints about flooring and/or paint. It's a trade off that either will be happy to make.

Jetport · Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:54 pm

Naincompetent wrote:
Also, about all those who believe that Boeing will cancel the program, one has to understand that most of the cost is behind them.
That means that as long as the future revenue is enough to offset the ongoing development costs, it is worth continuing the development.
Money which went out of the pocket last year is already a sunken cost and totally irrelevant for present decisions.

You are absolutely correct. It is amazing how many folks out there just can't seem to grasp the sunk development cost concept. All the 777X needs is a reasonable prospect of profitability from today forward, all of the past development money is gone and now irrelevant, you can't go back in time. The future freighter version is just one more reason that there is no doubt that the 777X program will continue forward.

Sunk development cost is why the A380 and 747-8 went on for years on life support, the cost of keeping the lines running was relatively low and worth the risk of getting future orders. The A330NEO is now in a similar situation, which barring a huge upturn in widebody demand in the near future will likely end like the A380 and 747-8 did.

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