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UA777FO
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:14 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
keesje wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
How high in cycles are the 757, 767, A320 and others at UA that the MAX order might replace/supplement?


These are average ages of the aircraft. Over the years the oldest ones have been retired. No even the youngest are getting worn out & averages / unit costs go up. . https://www.planespotters.net/airline/United-Airlines

Correct, UA is about to add more used airframes: 11 A319 from Easyjet and 7 B737-700 from Southwest (both having high utilisation for their fleet) on average age for each frame is 15 years old.Therefore will need quick replacment in next 5 years.

It was reported that we will not be putting those Easy jet planes into service.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:15 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
The MAX 8 would be to replace their old -700s and also their aging A319/A320 fleet. As for the XLR, will it be on par with the 757 on hot and high performance to replace the former Continental frames? (I expect more MAX 10s as well to maximize a 4 flight attendant cabin, and for premium transcon between NYC and LAX/SFO.)




What hot and high routes does UA operate with the 757? Sadly, probably not too many that are worth keeping the 757 around a bit longer :(
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:15 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
keesje wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
How high in cycles are the 757, 767, A320 and others at UA that the MAX order might replace/supplement?


These are average ages of the aircraft. Over the years the oldest ones have been retired. No even the youngest are getting worn out & averages / unit costs go up. . https://www.planespotters.net/airline/United-Airlines

Correct, UA is about to add more used airframes: 11 A319 from Easyjet and 7 B737-700 from Southwest (both having high utilisation for their fleet) on average age for each frame is 15 years old.Therefore will need quick replacment in next 5 years.



Thought these were parts frames and won't go to service...
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:28 pm

keesje wrote:
I think a good fleet of A321s and 737-8 seems reasonable, but also A220 could be in the mix.

Very doubtful. Last time we saw UA show interest in such an aircraft Boeing made them an offer on MAX7 that they could not refuse, and dumping laws don't apply within the US so good luck getting Airbus to match their price with the A220s that still struggle with manufacturing cost issues. It'd also have all the same problems because it would be an oddball fleet being flown by pilots on mainline union contracts. Whatever small efficiency advantages it has would be overwhelmed by purchase cost, training cost, maintenance cost, and fewer seats, just like was true at WN.
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:32 pm

qf789 wrote:
According to the following article on Bloomberg United Airlines is advanced talks for at least 100 737MAX aircraft though it is being reported it could be as many as 150 737MAX aircraft

The order would be part of a larger order said to be a broader fleet revamp according to people close to the matter

Both Boeing and United Airlines have declined to comment on the matter


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... f=CMQY7IGK


I'm getting used to OP and news articles that say Boeing is in talks with airline ABC and it hopes to sell xxx. Everybody happy.
Next day, page 4: 2 lines airline ABC confirms they are looking at both Boeing and Airbus proposals. OP's / articles not incorrect, just incomplete.
The new way of communication, perception management I guess. Say what most readers want to read. Don't lie, just select.

I believe for United more 737-10 might be a good option. For A321's there a huge backlog and DL, AA, Spirit and Jetblue probably won't give up their A321NEO slots. Commonality withe 737 fleet counts and pricing probablt is a reflection of market demand. https://hub.united.com/meet-boeing-737- ... 12142.html
Last edited by keesje on Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:41 pm

keesje wrote:
The new way of communication, perception management I guess. Say what most readers want to read. Don't lie, just select.

I know, it's just as incongruous as mentioning A220 as an option in cases where it has no serious chance of being an option then dropping the notion once the actual order doesn't match the perceived order. Hope people have short term memories, hope they don't see right through it.
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keesje
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:46 pm

Revelation wrote:
keesje wrote:
The new way of communication, perception management I guess. Say what most readers want to read. Don't lie, just select.

I know, it's just as incongruous as mentioning A220 as an option in cases where it has no serious chance of being an option then dropping the notion once the actual order doesn't match the perceived order. Hope people have short term memories, hope they don't see right through it.


Last time we saw UA show interest in such an aircraft Boeing made them an offer on MAX7 that they could not refuse, and dumping laws don't apply within the US so good luck getting Airbus to match their price with the A220s that still struggle with manufacturing cost issues.


Revelation, just where did the Boeing 737-7 order United couldn't refuse go? Did they refuse?
I even remember DoC stepping in to prevent CSeries getting a foothold. Things progressed since then I guess.
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Polot
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:50 pm

Boeing never made UA an offer they couldn’t refuse on the Max7. That was for the 73G, which United ordered (source). The order was cancelled/converted to the Max later that same year (source).
Last edited by Polot on Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:52 pm

keesje wrote:
Revelation, just where did the Boeing 737-7 order United couldn't refuse go? Did they refuse?
I even remember DoC stepping in to prevent CSeries getting a foothold. Things progressed since then I guess.

As you know the end result was a stalemate, UA hasn't taken -7, -700 or A220.
I don't see any progress that would change UA's decision making in favor of the A220.
Adding more MAX8 makes it easier for them to add MAX7 and more difficult to justify A220.
See smartplane's posts on post delivery credits for more info.
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MIflyer12
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:15 pm

keesje wrote:
Revelation, just where did the Boeing 737-7 order United couldn't refuse go? Did they refuse?
I even remember DoC stepping in to prevent CSeries getting a foothold. Things progressed since then I guess.


Your recollection might be a little... selective.

The duties proposed by the Dept of Commerce would have applied to all U.S. deliveries -- and remember, DL had already placed its order for 75 C-Series before the Commerce action. The U.S. market foothold had already been attained.

Let's not forget it was another U.S. agency - the U.S. International Trade Commission - that overruled Commerce. (Unlike the WTO action on EU launch aid, or WA State incentives.) The U.S. ITC is independent and bipartisan, established by Congress - not like the ****s running Commerce in the last administration.

I accept Revelation's point: every MAX order reinforces the case for each MAX type in the UA fleet. I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think UA has taken new delivery of mainline anything smaller than a 737-800 since the merger. Introducing another sub-type is a lot easier than a new type and pilot work group, with both intro cost and ongoing part/labor cost savings.
 
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:23 pm

Why does Reuters assume it is the Max8? If it is a capacity issue, it could be the Max7. If it is airfield issue, it could be the 7 or 8, otherwise, I would not see why UA would not just stock up on 10s as the defacto 737 at this point. With Alaska, I see why they would stick with the 9, since they have a large fleet of -900ER they would want a consistent seating for the fleet.
 
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:27 pm

I'm a cynic during negotiations, but if Boeing can clise the UA and FR deals as well as the already announced AS and WN orders, it gives momentum to the MAX. I consider this order likely.

Revelation wrote:
keesje wrote:
Revelation, just where did the Boeing 737-7 order United couldn't refuse go? Did they refuse?
I even remember DoC stepping in to prevent CSeries getting a foothold. Things progressed since then I guess.

As you know the end result was a stalemate, UA hasn't taken -7, -700 or A220.
I don't see any progress that would change UA's decision making in favor of the A220.
Adding more MAX8 makes it easier for them to add MAX7 and more difficult to justify A220.
See smartplane's posts on post delivery credits for more info.

The A220 would require a really good offer to UA to be considered as they would, in my opinion, only buy a large fleet (much larger than prior discussion).

While possible, unlikely to see the A220 at UA. Airbus should try, but it becomes a question of, is the sale worth it?

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RoyalBrunei757
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:37 pm

With AS, WN, possibly UA and FR additional order, MAX is definitely making a strong comeback. Is QF making a decision on their short-haul narrowbody replacement this year? Another to watch out for. That is about 200-300 order for MAX alone in total. Hopefully enough to cover those cancellations earlier this year and last year.

That being said Airbus has enjoyed much limelight over the past few years, gotta give it to them for amazing piece of machine for neos. They must be focusing on churning out those orders and might have chosen not to fight to aggresively in new RFP, unless absolutely necessary.

Both Boeing and Airbus make amazing machines.
 
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:39 pm

Another bonus of a large order like this is the new frames would arrive with the new livery
and most likely replace frames in the old gold livery, thus saving UA some money on repainting :)
 
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:46 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
With AS, WN, possibly UA and FR additional order, MAX is definitely making a strong comeback. Is QF making a decision on their short-haul narrowbody replacement this year? Another to watch out for. That is about 200-300 order for MAX alone in total. Hopefully enough to cover those cancellations earlier this year and last year.

I think the IAG situation is the one that bears watching the most. Will they be back in growth mode this year and feel it's time to order narrow bodies soon? Airbus indicated irritation at not being down-selected last time around which suggests they will fight for the business. IAG is not sitting on a lot of compensation credits like other big MAX operators are, so Boeing doesn't have that working in its favor. It seems their production slots are filling fast so maybe Boeing won't feel they can put the same kind of offer on the table as the one that the previous LOI was based on. I can't tell for sure. It'll be interesting to see who wins the next big IAG narrow body order. Could it end up as a split order like the UA one?
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Opus99
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:50 pm

Revelation wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
With AS, WN, possibly UA and FR additional order, MAX is definitely making a strong comeback. Is QF making a decision on their short-haul narrowbody replacement this year? Another to watch out for. That is about 200-300 order for MAX alone in total. Hopefully enough to cover those cancellations earlier this year and last year.

I think the IAG situation is the one that bears watching the most. Will they be back in growth mode this year and feel it's time to order narrow bodies soon? Airbus indicated irritation at not being down-selected last time around which suggests they will fight for the business. IAG is not sitting on a lot of compensation credits like other big MAX operators are, so Boeing doesn't have that working in its favor. It seems their production slots are filling fast so maybe Boeing won't feel they can put the same kind of offer on the table as the one that the previous LOI was based on. I can't tell for sure. It'll be interesting to see who wins the next big IAG narrow body order. Could it end up as a split order like the UA one?

That’s the one I’m really watching the most myself. We haven’t heard much on it. The only credits they may have will be for the 777X. But I don’t know how they’ll use it
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:51 pm

Revelation wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
With AS, WN, possibly UA and FR additional order, MAX is definitely making a strong comeback. Is QF making a decision on their short-haul narrowbody replacement this year? Another to watch out for. That is about 200-300 order for MAX alone in total. Hopefully enough to cover those cancellations earlier this year and last year.

I think the IAG situation is the one that bears watching the most. Will they be back in growth mode this year and feel it's time to order narrow bodies soon? Airbus indicated irritation at not being down-selected last time around which suggests they will fight for the business. IAG is not sitting on a lot of compensation credits like other big MAX operators are, so Boeing doesn't have that working in its favor. It seems their production slots are filling fast so maybe Boeing won't feel they can put the same kind of offer on the table as the one that the previous LOI was based on. I can't tell for sure. It'll be interesting to see who wins the next big IAG narrow body order. Could it end up as a split order like the UA one?

True, I agreed with you. IAG is another big one to watch out for. Not to deviate the topic, but has IAG's LOI lapsed, I thought it has some time ago?
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:53 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
Another bonus of a large order like this is the new frames would arrive with the new livery
and most likely replace frames in the old gold livery, thus saving UA some money on repainting :)

Erm... I won't get my hope too high, they just launched a revised EvoBlue livery. Don't think they will re-brand any time soon. But one can always hope. :p
 
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Polot
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:07 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
Another bonus of a large order like this is the new frames would arrive with the new livery
and most likely replace frames in the old gold livery, thus saving UA some money on repainting :)

Erm... I won't get my hope too high, they just launched a revised EvoBlue livery. Don't think they will re-brand any time soon. But one can always hope. :p

By new livery he meant the EvoBlue livery.
 
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:13 pm

Revelation wrote:
keesje wrote:
I think a good fleet of A321s and 737-8 seems reasonable, but also A220 could be in the mix.

Very doubtful. Last time we saw UA show interest in such an aircraft Boeing made them an offer on MAX7 that they could not refuse, and dumping laws don't apply within the US so good luck getting Airbus to match their price with the A220s that still struggle with manufacturing cost issues. It'd also have all the same problems because it would be an oddball fleet being flown by pilots on mainline union contracts. Whatever small efficiency advantages it has would be overwhelmed by purchase cost, training cost, maintenance cost, and fewer seats, just like was true at WN.


For an A220 produced in Mobil, with avionics and engines produced in the USA, dumping laws should not apply. So manufacturing cost should not come into it.
 
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:19 pm

You guys, I'll throw in my .02,

United likes to be the launch carrier for their planes. Here is my guess. Boeing will become the launch carrier for the -10LR. They could add significant range by adding tanks in the horizontal stabilizers. But who am I...?
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:21 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
For an A220 produced in Mobil, with avionics and engines produced in the USA, dumping laws should not apply. So manufacturing cost should not come into it.

True, but the fact that under even the best scenarios projected by the manufacturers MAX will be produced at more than four times the rate of A220 does come in to it. They just don't have the capacity to take on new big orders for A220 and won't any time soon. Maybe at some point in time we'll see Airbus increase the priority of the A220 but so far all we see is it is on its same original growth curve shifted to the right a few years by COVID.
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:32 pm

eraugrad02 wrote:
You guys, I'll throw in my .02,

United likes to be the launch carrier for their planes. Here is my guess. Boeing will become the launch carrier for the -10LR. They could add significant range by adding tanks in the horizontal stabilizers. But who am I...?

I like the idea. How about -9ER? Eventually the -10 gear will go to the -9 for shortfield performance and there should be a MTOW increase too.

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Opus99
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:53 pm

lightsaber wrote:
eraugrad02 wrote:
You guys, I'll throw in my .02,

United likes to be the launch carrier for their planes. Here is my guess. Boeing will become the launch carrier for the -10LR. They could add significant range by adding tanks in the horizontal stabilizers. But who am I...?

I like the idea. How about -9ER? Eventually the -10 gear will go to the -9 for shortfield performance and there should be a MTOW increase too.

Lightsaber

I don’t think anybody will endorse Boeing enhancing the 737 any further
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:54 pm

Scott Hamilton says on Twitter:

"The
@United - @Airbus - @Boeing talks bigger than @Bloomberg reports: up to 300 A321neos, 737 MAXes, 787s. Exclusive from @AirfinanceNews https://tinyurl.com/8syk4hkw"

https://twitter.com/LeehamNews/status/1 ... 31329?s=20
 
Opus99
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:57 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
Scott Hamilton says on Twitter:

"The
@United - @Airbus - @Boeing talks bigger than @Bloomberg reports: up to 300 A321neos, 737 MAXes, 787s. Exclusive from @AirfinanceNews https://tinyurl.com/8syk4hkw"

https://twitter.com/LeehamNews/status/1 ... 31329?s=20

Oh WOW. No wonder Bloomberg says other models are being looked at.

Let me say it here now. If United buys one more batch of 787s. I think we can agree here on a.net that the 350 deal is a wrap?
 
Opus99
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:00 pm

United really out on a summer shopping spree. Love it
 
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:00 pm

Opus99 wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
Scott Hamilton says on Twitter:

"The
@United - @Airbus - @Boeing talks bigger than @Bloomberg reports: up to 300 A321neos, 737 MAXes, 787s. Exclusive from @AirfinanceNews https://tinyurl.com/8syk4hkw"

https://twitter.com/LeehamNews/status/1 ... 31329?s=20

Oh WOW. No wonder Bloomberg says other models are being looked at.

Let me say it here now. If United buys one more batch of 787s. I think we can agree here on a.net that the 350 deal is a wrap?

Not hard to conclude that, A350 isn't even in the short list given by Hamilton.
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avi8
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:02 pm

Revelation wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
Scott Hamilton says on Twitter:

"The
@United - @Airbus - @Boeing talks bigger than @Bloomberg reports: up to 300 A321neos, 737 MAXes, 787s. Exclusive from @AirfinanceNews https://tinyurl.com/8syk4hkw"

https://twitter.com/LeehamNews/status/1 ... 31329?s=20

Oh WOW. No wonder Bloomberg says other models are being looked at.

Let me say it here now. If United buys one more batch of 787s. I think we can agree here on a.net that the 350 deal is a wrap?

Not hard to conclude that, A350 isn't even in the short list given by Hamilton.


I wonder if A320Neos are also being considered to replace aging A320s and 737s along with the MAX8.
avi8
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:05 pm

Such a shame Boeing has neglected the large narrow body aircraft when they were ahead of the game with the 757. Boeing will be behind the competition for quite some time.

I also wonder if A350 orders get turned into some A321s
 
EssentialBusDC
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:08 pm

There are roughly 150 319/737-700’s that will need replacement in the next decade or so.

That is definitely a large enough fleet to have as a A220 standalone, configured at 125-130 seats. even more so if they get some -100’s which then would unlock more 76 seaters.

Something a Max7 wouldn’t do under the current contract.
 
Opus99
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:09 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Such a shame Boeing has neglected the large narrow body aircraft when they were ahead of the game with the 757. Boeing will be behind the competition for quite some time.

I also wonder if A350 orders get turned into some A321s

It is sad indeed. But it was all about timing. Back then nobody wanted the 757s especially when they brought it to a close.
 
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Polot
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:27 pm

Opus99 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
eraugrad02 wrote:
You guys, I'll throw in my .02,

United likes to be the launch carrier for their planes. Here is my guess. Boeing will become the launch carrier for the -10LR. They could add significant range by adding tanks in the horizontal stabilizers. But who am I...?

I like the idea. How about -9ER? Eventually the -10 gear will go to the -9 for shortfield performance and there should be a MTOW increase too.

Lightsaber

I don’t think anybody will endorse Boeing enhancing the 737 any further

You will still see small enhancements, Boeing will continue to try and make their product better. In this case it is just taking improvements from the -10 and shifting it to smaller models. If there is enough benefit and customer demand Boeing would gladly do it.

avi8 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Oh WOW. No wonder Bloomberg says other models are being looked at.

Let me say it here now. If United buys one more batch of 787s. I think we can agree here on a.net that the 350 deal is a wrap?

Not hard to conclude that, A350 isn't even in the short list given by Hamilton.


I wonder if A320Neos are also being considered to replace aging A320s and 737s along with the MAX8.

Not sure what would be the point, the A320neo can’t really do anything the Max8 can’t. With the A321neo UA would probably be getting those planes faster than the -10 (especially after the latest -10 delay) allowing them to build up their new large narrow body fleet quicker.
 
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NeBaNi
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:36 pm

Revelation wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
Scott Hamilton says on Twitter:

"The
@United - @Airbus - @Boeing talks bigger than @Bloomberg reports: up to 300 A321neos, 737 MAXes, 787s. Exclusive from @AirfinanceNews https://tinyurl.com/8syk4hkw"

https://twitter.com/LeehamNews/status/1 ... 31329?s=20

Oh WOW. No wonder Bloomberg says other models are being looked at.

Let me say it here now. If United buys one more batch of 787s. I think we can agree here on a.net that the 350 deal is a wrap?

Not hard to conclude that, A350 isn't even in the short list given by Hamilton.

I'd say the A350 order is about as likely as the Boom Overture order at this point. But I seem to recall, probably from a Leehamnews tweet/post, that the sticking point with the A350 order was the contract with Rolls-Royce? i.e. Airbus was more than happy to let UA switch to A321neo/XLRs but RR wasn't budging?
 
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:40 pm

NeBaNi wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Oh WOW. No wonder Bloomberg says other models are being looked at.

Let me say it here now. If United buys one more batch of 787s. I think we can agree here on a.net that the 350 deal is a wrap?

Not hard to conclude that, A350 isn't even in the short list given by Hamilton.

I'd say the A350 order is about as likely as the Boom Overture order at this point. But I seem to recall, probably from a Leehamnews tweet/post, that the sticking point with the A350 order was the contract with Rolls-Royce? i.e. Airbus was more than happy to let UA switch to A321neo/XLRs but RR wasn't budging?

I don’t know if that has officially stated but that has long been the rumor. There is no other RR product to convert the TXWB contract to (UA doesn’t want A330neo, prefer to remain GE with 787, no RR on any narrowbodies).
 
MLIAA
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:51 pm

Has it been revealed what engine UA has selected for their A321XLR’s?

If they chose the CFM LEAP, they won’t have the PW GTF at all and that another hurdle for the A220.
A319 A320 A321 A332 B712 B722 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B763 B764 B772 B788 B789 MD80 S340 E140 E145 E170 E175 E195 CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9
 
Opus99
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:51 pm

https://twitter.com/leehamnews/status/1 ... 35937?s=21

Scott Hamilton feels even with just the 321neo increase the 350 maybe a wrap.

@Keesje if United orders another batch of 787s, do you really feel they will still take those 350s?
 
DCA350
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:57 pm

LHAM wrote:
Great news for team Boeing. Hopefully the deal is not for a firesale price tag.


Most certainly is.. The market has spoken and the NEO is the winner, United has ordered A321s themselves. Boeing needs more blue chips customers so I'm sure the deal is too good pass. This actually helps AB in my opinion because a shed load more A320 series would make it much easier to transition out of the A350 order.
 
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Polot
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:00 pm

DCA350 wrote:
This actually helps AB in my opinion because a shed load more A320 series would make it much easier to transition out of the A350 order.

I’m not sure that something that AB wants to be easy...
 
Cdydatzigs
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:14 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
Another bonus of a large order like this is the new frames would arrive with the new livery
and most likely replace frames in the old gold livery, thus saving UA some money on repainting :)


I like the way you think!
 
planecane
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:18 pm

Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/leehamnews/status/1403039564730535937?s=21

Scott Hamilton feels even with just the 321neo increase the 350 maybe a wrap.

@Keesje if United orders another batch of 787s, do you really feel they will still take those 350s?

Certainly possible that they would convert the A350 orders into a larger order of A321s.

Airbus keeps the same order value (or close), United gets to downsize the widebody fleet while keeping capability and gets the A321NEO for the routes where it makes more sense than a MAX 10.
 
marcelh
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:20 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I'm a cynic during negotiations, but if Boeing can clise the UA and FR deals as well as the already announced AS and WN orders, it gives momentum to the MAX.


What momentum? IMHO those were sales Boeing could count on. AS, WN and FR are all (almost) only 737 users, so for the forseeable future the 737MAX will be the new kid in town (and withdraw the remaining Airbus). UA is looking for a mixed fleet, so they order both in quantities it suits them best.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:32 pm

Reuters is reporting up to 200 planes to be ordered and split between Airbus and Boeing.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-06-10/
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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william
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:37 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Such a shame Boeing has neglected the large narrow body aircraft when they were ahead of the game with the 757. Boeing will be behind the competition for quite some time.

I also wonder if A350 orders get turned into some A321s


Surprised it took this long in the thread for someone to state this.
 
Opus99
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:45 pm

https://airfinancejournal.com/articles/ ... bus-boeing

You guys this is a mega deal.

250 737s and 787s - 787s in the double digits

60+ A321s

WOW - I mean. Again. If this deal closes the 350 is a wrap.
 
UA748i
Posts: 141
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:47 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
Another bonus of a large order like this is the new frames would arrive with the new livery
and most likely replace frames in the old gold livery, thus saving UA some money on repainting :)

Erm... I won't get my hope too high, they just launched a revised EvoBlue livery. Don't think they will re-brand any time soon. But one can always hope. :p


I think that is what OP was referring to.
 
jbs2886
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:54 pm

william wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Such a shame Boeing has neglected the large narrow body aircraft when they were ahead of the game with the 757. Boeing will be behind the competition for quite some time.

I also wonder if A350 orders get turned into some A321s


Surprised it took this long in the thread for someone to state this.


How? Sure Airbus might, but RR? What incentive does RR have unless UA switches to RR for some more 787s? UA could just cancel and maybe there have been some misses that give UA an out, but I doubt it.
 
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keesje
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:57 pm

planecane wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/leehamnews/status/1403039564730535937?s=21

Scott Hamilton feels even with just the 321neo increase the 350 maybe a wrap.

@Keesje if United orders another batch of 787s, do you really feel they will still take those 350s?

Certainly possible that they would convert the A350 orders into a larger order of A321s.

Airbus keeps the same order value (or close), United gets to downsize the widebody fleet while keeping capability and gets the A321NEO for the routes where it makes more sense than a MAX 10.


United didn't do so when they ordered the A321XLR's did they? On top, what would UA order to replace their 777 on the pacific? A combined 777-8 (Cargo) / 787-9 (range)/ 787-10 (capacity) fleet? SQ, QF, JAL, DL, CX made other trade-offs (A350-900/-1000 fleets).

More hope than logic it seems.
Last edited by keesje on Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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JetBuddy
Posts: 2647
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:57 pm

Opus99 wrote:
https://airfinancejournal.com/articles/3583651/exclusive-united-in-talks-for-up-to-300-airbus-boeing

You guys this is a mega deal.

250 737s and 787s - 787s in the double digits

60+ A321s

WOW - I mean. Again. If this deal closes the 350 is a wrap.


I'm really excited for this one. This is awesome. Hope it comes to fruition.

(except the A350 part)
 
Opus99
Posts: 2217
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Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:13 pm

keesje wrote:
planecane wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/leehamnews/status/1403039564730535937?s=21

Scott Hamilton feels even with just the 321neo increase the 350 maybe a wrap.

@Keesje if United orders another batch of 787s, do you really feel they will still take those 350s?

Certainly possible that they would convert the A350 orders into a larger order of A321s.

Airbus keeps the same order value (or close), United gets to downsize the widebody fleet while keeping capability and gets the A321NEO for the routes where it makes more sense than a MAX 10.


United didn't do so when they ordered the A321XLR's did they? On top, what would UA order to replace their 777 on the pacific? A combined 777-8 (Cargo) / 787-9 (range)/ 787-10 (capacity) fleet? SQ, QF, JAL, DL, CX made other trade-offs (A350-900/-1000 fleets).

More hope than logic it seems.

Doesn’t the 787-9 do transpacific for United? Many airlines have replaced 777s with 787-9s. Like American. Does United want to have 350s. How much RR exposure does UA currently have? It might not be the 350 that’s the problem for UA. It might be the fact that GE is not an option. I don’t know anyway. But what can the 350 do that cannot be done between the 787-9 and the 787-10. How many airlines do you know have 787-9 787-10 AND 350-900. None
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