Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 19
 
User avatar
Spiderguy252
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:58 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:00 pm

keesje wrote:
I think the signs are clear that Boeing "shrinking" the NMA to address the A321 and the weak market position the 737 has got into.

"Shelving" "Ending" the MoM/NMA would have too much defeat in it, so wording is carefull. Meeting new market requirements is the way forward. NB 200 seats is back.


Personally feel they should stop talking about it and actually produce something.
Vahroone
 
VC10er
Posts: 4321
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:43 pm

Burning question: How close does 1 average weight passenger in a Polaris seat (given all the walls, marble table and cabinet along with under seat hardware etc) come in comparison to a row or two of PE, E+ and naturally regular Economy?

I have never eyeballed it or tape measured the comparisons (though that probably would not help much anyway)
But 1 “odd numbered” Polaris seat would appear to take “about” as much floor space 3 rows of 3 abreast Economy, perhaps 2 rows of E+ and roughly 1.5 rows of PE, 2 abreast? This is less about “how many seats” and more curious about weight.

Does the general Polaris fare difference “basically” make up for the reduction in passengers OR is a Polaris seat itself heavy enough to make up the difference? (Ending up as a wash?)

Next:
If the 787-10 was to replace the HD 77A, then I would think saving the NEWER Diamond* seats coming from the 787’s would actually be GREAT for the HD routes as we know them to be today.
Yes, there would be a lack of consistency, but I really believe it could be easily spun into “This is not an International aircraft” and even explore a new color scheme (ala: purple for PE) and brand that domestic F HD 787-10 has something special (albeit not Polaris). Aqua headrest trim, dark blue upholstery like Domestic F on a 737-8/9 and a gel pillow. Suddenly a reason to pay for F (stroopwaffle, LOL)

* My single biggest issue with the Diamond seat is the remarkable lack of a hand rain to steady oneself from the window, over your neighbor with no risk of falling right on top of them. It’s happened to me twice. Last time I scalded my neighbor who had his feet up and a fresh cup of coffee in his hand. I was mortified! I had NOTHING to grab onto to prevent myself from landing on top of him. Not enough paper towels on a 772 to clean him up as we landed at LHR. Can handle bars be added? Even TAM had handle bars!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9659
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:57 pm

VC10er wrote:
Burning question: How close does 1 average weight passenger in a Polaris seat (given all the walls, marble table and cabinet along with under seat hardware etc) come in comparison to a row or two of PE, E+ and naturally regular Economy?

I have never eyeballed it or tape measured the comparisons (though that probably would not help much anyway)
But 1 “odd numbered” Polaris seat would appear to take “about” as much floor space 3 rows of 3 abreast Economy, perhaps 2 rows of E+ and roughly 1.5 rows of PE, 2 abreast? This is less about “how many seats” and more curious about weight.

Does the general Polaris fare difference “basically” make up for the reduction in passengers OR is a Polaris seat itself heavy enough to make up the difference? (Ending up as a wash?)


That's a good question. Passenger aircraft have fundamentally two commodities to sell: floor space (they're not stacking passengers yet!) and ability to carry weight.

Without knowing the details I can still infer this: if Polaris (specifically, the revenues it generates) weren't superior to Y or Y+ on the relevant UA routes, UA wouldn't have it. More precisely, it would have fewer (fewer Polaris seats per aircraft and/or fewer routes featuring Polaris).
 
jayunited
Posts: 3517
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:01 pm

MDC862 wrote:
The 350 has been kicked down the road two times; rumor is it will be done a 3rd time then cancelled. By keeping it on the books it gives UA options, but over a decade has passed since the order and UA is on its 3rd administration since then. If there was a need to have the plane it would have been here by now but in the meantime additional 787 orders are placed and delivered. Now, with global traffic years away, no incentive to take delivery of it.


Yes the A350 order has been kicked down the road twice now but you have to look at why. The original order for 25 A359s was placed pre-merger my s-UA they were slated as a replacement for UA's 744s, s-UA placed this order because we were in full retreat and was struggling to fill our 744s. Then the merger happened long story short the now combined UA needed an aircraft with the capacity of the 744 so s-UA's order was change to the A35J and increase to 35 frames with deliveries scheduled to begin by December of 2018 and United would begin retiring our 744 in early 2019. However United realized our 744s wouldn't make it until 2019 or 2020 and they needed an aircraft that would allow us to retire our 744s starting in 2016, Airbus offered the A380 which was a nonstarter while Boeing offered both the 748 and the 77W. United flat out turned down the 748 because t. he airline wasn't interested in 4 engine aircraft which lead to the 77W entering the fleet. Since United does not need both the 77W and the A35J in our fleet Scott Kirby during his exhaustive fleet review decided the A359 would be the best replacement for UA 77Es once those frames come up on retirement.

Having spent 25 years working for this airline and knowing the interworking of this airline I firmly believe the A359s will join the fleet starting in 2027 because the 789 is to small not enough seats, the 78X in its current form is max out United would need to hold off payload on any flight longer than 11.5 hours, leaving the A359 as UA's best option.

United does not need the aircraft right now which is why the aircraft isn't in the fleet however this was discussed in the United Fleet and Network thread, last month during an NOC town hall it was revealed UA has approached Airbus over moving up the A359 delivery date if the PW 777s can't be returned to service. The response we were told Airbus gave was they would allow UA to move up the A359 deliveries if necessary. However in the same town hall United did say they expect all PW 77Es to return to service in 2022 provided Boeing can fix (strengthen or redesign) the cowling and thus far Boeing believes they can fix the cowling issue. The 77As are still questionable at this point in time because those aircraft need would need Pratt and Whitney to come up with a fix for the fan blades.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 14438
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:27 pm

jayunited wrote:
MDC862 wrote:
The 350 has been kicked down the road two times; rumor is it will be done a 3rd time then cancelled. By keeping it on the books it gives UA options, but over a decade has passed since the order and UA is on its 3rd administration since then. If there was a need to have the plane it would have been here by now but in the meantime additional 787 orders are placed and delivered. Now, with global traffic years away, no incentive to take delivery of it.


Yes the A350 order has been kicked down the road twice now but you have to look at why. The original order for 25 A359s was placed pre-merger my s-UA they were slated as a replacement for UA's 744s, s-UA placed this order because we were in full retreat and was struggling to fill our 744s. Then the merger happened long story short the now combined UA needed an aircraft with the capacity of the 744 so s-UA's order was change to the A35J and increase to 35 frames with deliveries scheduled to begin by December of 2018 and United would begin retiring our 744 in early 2019. However United realized our 744s wouldn't make it until 2019 or 2020 and they needed an aircraft that would allow us to retire our 744s starting in 2016, Airbus offered the A380 which was a nonstarter while Boeing offered both the 748 and the 77W. United flat out turned down the 748 because t. he airline wasn't interested in 4 engine aircraft which lead to the 77W entering the fleet. Since United does not need both the 77W and the A35J in our fleet Scott Kirby during his exhaustive fleet review decided the A359 would be the best replacement for UA 77Es once those frames come up on retirement.

Having spent 25 years working for this airline and knowing the interworking of this airline I firmly believe the A359s will join the fleet starting in 2027 because the 789 is to small not enough seats, the 78X in its current form is max out United would need to hold off payload on any flight longer than 11.5 hours, leaving the A359 as UA's best option.

United does not need the aircraft right now which is why the aircraft isn't in the fleet however this was discussed in the United Fleet and Network thread, last month during an NOC town hall it was revealed UA has approached Airbus over moving up the A359 delivery date if the PW 777s can't be returned to service. The response we were told Airbus gave was they would allow UA to move up the A359 deliveries if necessary. However in the same town hall United did say they expect all PW 77Es to return to service in 2022 provided Boeing can fix (strengthen or redesign) the cowling and thus far Boeing believes they can fix the cowling issue. The 77As are still questionable at this point in time because those aircraft need would need Pratt and Whitney to come up with a fix for the fan blades.


:checkmark: makes sense
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
JerseyFlyer
Posts: 1682
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 7:24 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:44 pm

Leeham is speculating about a possible Airbus announcement tomorrow - A322 for UA??

https://leehamnews.com/2021/06/14/airbu ... ls-reveal/
 
JFKalumni
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:45 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:48 pm

jayunited wrote:
MDC862 wrote:
The 350 has been kicked down the road two times; rumor is it will be done a 3rd time then cancelled. By keeping it on the books it gives UA options, but over a decade has passed since the order and UA is on its 3rd administration since then. If there was a need to have the plane it would have been here by now but in the meantime additional 787 orders are placed and delivered. Now, with global traffic years away, no incentive to take delivery of it.


Yes the A350 order has been kicked down the road twice now but you have to look at why. The original order for 25 A359s was placed pre-merger my s-UA they were slated as a replacement for UA's 744s, s-UA placed this order because we were in full retreat and was struggling to fill our 744s. Then the merger happened long story short the now combined UA needed an aircraft with the capacity of the 744 so s-UA's order was change to the A35J and increase to 35 frames with deliveries scheduled to begin by December of 2018 and United would begin retiring our 744 in early 2019. However United realized our 744s wouldn't make it until 2019 or 2020 and they needed an aircraft that would allow us to retire our 744s starting in 2016, Airbus offered the A380 which was a nonstarter while Boeing offered both the 748 and the 77W. United flat out turned down the 748 because t. he airline wasn't interested in 4 engine aircraft which lead to the 77W entering the fleet. Since United does not need both the 77W and the A35J in our fleet Scott Kirby during his exhaustive fleet review decided the A359 would be the best replacement for UA 77Es once those frames come up on retirement.

Having spent 25 years working for this airline and knowing the interworking of this airline I firmly believe the A359s will join the fleet starting in 2027 because the 789 is to small not enough seats, the 78X in its current form is max out United would need to hold off payload on any flight longer than 11.5 hours, leaving the A359 as UA's best option.

United does not need the aircraft right now which is why the aircraft isn't in the fleet however this was discussed in the United Fleet and Network thread, last month during an NOC town hall it was revealed UA has approached Airbus over moving up the A359 delivery date if the PW 777s can't be returned to service. The response we were told Airbus gave was they would allow UA to move up the A359 deliveries if necessary. However in the same town hall United did say they expect all PW 77Es to return to service in 2022 provided Boeing can fix (strengthen or redesign) the cowling and thus far Boeing believes they can fix the cowling issue. The 77As are still questionable at this point in time because those aircraft need would need Pratt and Whitney to come up with a fix for the fan blades.


As a S-UA guy myself, I believe the A350’s are coming. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are solely based in LAX and SFO for the Pacific flying while the Midwest and eastern hubs keep the 787’s. The 78X has already proven its ability to cover EWR-TLV with an impressive cargo load. The software update for the GEnx engines allow EWR-JNB operations. My guess is Australia and Asia flights from LAX/SFO gets redeployed with A350’s, the displaced 787 frames move to ORD, IAD and EWR for spares or redeployment. EWR-EZE could benefit from the 787’s while turning the 767-400’s into high density birds.
 
User avatar
CALTECH
Posts: 3502
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 4:21 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:54 pm

" United is expecting to take deliveries of 40 MAX jets in 2022 and 54 in 2023. "
You are here.
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 1131
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:58 pm

I wonder if this was that "big announcement" instead of that supersonic plane.
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 637
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:59 pm

jayunited wrote:
MDC862 wrote:
The 350 has been kicked down the road two times; rumor is it will be done a 3rd time then cancelled. By keeping it on the books it gives UA options, but over a decade has passed since the order and UA is on its 3rd administration since then. If there was a need to have the plane it would have been here by now but in the meantime additional 787 orders are placed and delivered. Now, with global traffic years away, no incentive to take delivery of it.


Yes the A350 order has been kicked down the road twice now but you have to look at why. The original order for 25 A359s was placed pre-merger my s-UA they were slated as a replacement for UA's 744s, s-UA placed this order because we were in full retreat and was struggling to fill our 744s. Then the merger happened long story short the now combined UA needed an aircraft with the capacity of the 744 so s-UA's order was change to the A35J and increase to 35 frames with deliveries scheduled to begin by December of 2018 and United would begin retiring our 744 in early 2019. However United realized our 744s wouldn't make it until 2019 or 2020 and they needed an aircraft that would allow us to retire our 744s starting in 2016, Airbus offered the A380 which was a nonstarter while Boeing offered both the 748 and the 77W. United flat out turned down the 748 because t. he airline wasn't interested in 4 engine aircraft which lead to the 77W entering the fleet. Since United does not need both the 77W and the A35J in our fleet Scott Kirby during his exhaustive fleet review decided the A359 would be the best replacement for UA 77Es once those frames come up on retirement.

Having spent 25 years working for this airline and knowing the interworking of this airline I firmly believe the A359s will join the fleet starting in 2027 because the 789 is to small not enough seats, the 78X in its current form is max out United would need to hold off payload on any flight longer than 11.5 hours, leaving the A359 as UA's best option.

United does not need the aircraft right now which is why the aircraft isn't in the fleet however this was discussed in the United Fleet and Network thread, last month during an NOC town hall it was revealed UA has approached Airbus over moving up the A359 delivery date if the PW 777s can't be returned to service. The response we were told Airbus gave was they would allow UA to move up the A359 deliveries if necessary. However in the same town hall United did say they expect all PW 77Es to return to service in 2022 provided Boeing can fix (strengthen or redesign) the cowling and thus far Boeing believes they can fix the cowling issue. The 77As are still questionable at this point in time because those aircraft need would need Pratt and Whitney to come up with a fix for the fan blades.


Thanks for this, perfectly summarizes it.

I've always felt you could criticize UA for hastiness during the decisions to delay and expand the order, but there was a clear logic behind each move as it went from a downsized B744 replacement, to a more suitable B744 replacement, to ultimately a B77E replacement when they got fortunate with the B77W's at the time.
 
JFKalumni
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:45 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:08 pm

CALTECH wrote:
" United is expecting to take deliveries of 40 MAX jets in 2022 and 54 in 2023. "


I hope the Max-10 is coming soon. EWR-Caribbean is picking up again.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 26345
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:28 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
I wonder if this was that "big announcement" instead of that supersonic plane.

Seems to me GE + Safran as CFM announcing a new open-rotor design for the mid-2030s will be much more disruptive to the airliner business than any supersonic plane will be.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 10309
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:43 pm

Revelation wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
I wonder if this was that "big announcement" instead of that supersonic plane.

Seems to me GE + Safran as CFM announcing a new open-rotor design for the mid-2030s will be much more disruptive to the airliner business than any supersonic plane will be.


The engine industry is always the best way to look for the future trends. And not only do we see the open rotor, we also see new interest in the piston engine, which would be perfect generators for a hybrid solution. https://www.koro-aero-engines.com/#efficient for example as a new start-up. But P&W, RR and GE/Safran have all snatched up engineers coming from the car industry lately. And if we see piston engines looking at 2000HP+, it makes a lot of sense for the turboprop/open-rotor to replace the lower thrust turbofans.
 
United1
Posts: 4282
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:51 pm

JFKalumni wrote:
CALTECH wrote:
" United is expecting to take deliveries of 40 MAX jets in 2022 and 54 in 2023. "


I hope the Max-10 is coming soon. EWR-Caribbean is picking up again.


Boeing isn't planning on delivering any MAX10s until 2023.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
JFKalumni
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:45 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:08 pm

United1 wrote:
JFKalumni wrote:
CALTECH wrote:
" United is expecting to take deliveries of 40 MAX jets in 2022 and 54 in 2023. "


I hope the Max-10 is coming soon. EWR-Caribbean is picking up again.


Boeing isn't planning on delivering any MAX10s until 2023.


https://www.airway1.com/737-max-10-is-e ... ming-days/


I was thinking maybe the timeline was going to change again after reading this article.
 
United1
Posts: 4282
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:49 pm

JFKalumni wrote:
United1 wrote:
JFKalumni wrote:

I hope the Max-10 is coming soon. EWR-Caribbean is picking up again.


Boeing isn't planning on delivering any MAX10s until 2023.


https://www.airway1.com/737-max-10-is-e ... ming-days/


I was thinking maybe the timeline was going to change again after reading this article.


I suppose anything is possible but everything I have seen (including the article you linked) points to 2023 by the time it gets through all the regulators.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9659
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:36 pm

CALTECH wrote:
" United is expecting to take deliveries of 40 MAX jets in 2022 and 54 in 2023. "


Forty in 2022 confirms the declaration in the annual report filed 3/1/2021.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3161
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:06 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
I wonder if this was that "big announcement" instead of that supersonic plane.


The supersonic plane was most definitely the big announcement. Ordering these planes, while exciting to us, is not exciting to the general public.
 
VC10er
Posts: 4321
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:19 am

[url][/url]
jbs2886 wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
I wonder if this was that "big announcement" instead of that supersonic plane.


The supersonic plane was most definitely the big announcement. Ordering these planes, while exciting to us, is not exciting to the general public.


I’m not so sure! I realize this is as far from scientific research as Pluto is from the sun…but ALL my friends who couldn’t care less about aviation or airlines were ALL talking about “UNITED IS GOING SUPER SONIC! And they are FIRST also!”

I think the picture on the cover of USA TODAY caused quite a stir! Especially that it was “UNITED”

I do not think that “United is the airline everyone loves to hate” is the buzz anymore!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
UA857
Posts: 707
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:41 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:09 am

frigatebird wrote:
LDRA wrote:
Why is having RR engines on 788 an issue for UA? Engines are not as logistically intensive as airframes. RR tri-spool suits shorter mission profile of 788/763 routes better

Agree, IF UA decides not to take the A350 they will build a 787 fleet large enough to warrant two engine suppliers, RR ones for flights up to 6-8 hours and GE for longer routes. DL even has 3 different engines on their A330 fleet, and LH will have two different engines on 25 787s on order. But I still think the A350 will be the best 77E replacement for UA, so I don't think they need negotiate theirselves out of the A350/Trent XWB contracts.

My :twocents: : 20 787-10s firm as 77A replacement, and options on 788s for 767 replacement. 737-10s will be converted back to -8 and -9 as a result of ordering additional A321neo's. Plus additional 737-8s of course.



UA should replace the 77G with the 78J in a high-density 382 seat layout consisting of 28 Polaris seats, 102 Economy plus seats, and 252 Economy seats and would be deployed on SFO-HNL/OGG/KOA/DEN/ORD/IAH/IAD, LAX-HNL/DEN/ORD/IAH/IAD, ORD-HNL/OGG/KOA, and HNL-GUM-NRT.
 
flyinggoat
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:38 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:38 am

I tend to think the A350-1000 will be a good fit for UA, but not until the 77W is ready to be retired. I could see UA deferring the A350 for years.
 
FluidFlow
Posts: 1043
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:11 am

JerseyFlyer wrote:
Leeham is speculating about a possible Airbus announcement tomorrow - A322 for UA??

https://leehamnews.com/2021/06/14/airbu ... ls-reveal/


I was thinking about the article and they speculate between 350F and possible A322. But why announcing the 350F today when yesterday was the 8th anniversary of the A350 maiden flight. It would have been a better press opportunity to announce the 350F yesterday, so will it really be the A322?
 
Jomar777
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:02 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
I see UA taking advantage of low pricing to renew their fleet. They also have a bunch of older A320s, 319s, and 738s they can replace if they don’t need all the capacity.

Spiderguy252 wrote:
I notice barring the A320 series, UA has an all-Boeing fleet.

1) CO had an all-Boeing fleet as well. Did UA have these Airbuses from before the merger, or were they ordered later?
2) UA also has 45 A350s on order, deferred to 2027. Will this ever see the light of day?


UA also has 50 A321XLRs on order and the A350 count was increased and delayed a few years ago. An airline this big and global can’t afford to be single supplier.


Actually, they can. Only that Boeing does not have a direct competitor to the A321XLR at present so they will be very likely the sole Airbus fleet within United.
The A350 has been deferred for now but it is very likely that these will not be delivered and the order will be cancelled.
 
Jomar777
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:15 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
keesje wrote:
Pitty an A220-500 at high production volumes isn't there for the foreseeable future.

I'm starting to wonder if it'll ever be? Are we going to go through a full cycle before the A220 lines ramp up to the point of high-volume production? If so, seems like the model could ironically see a similar fate to the 717s it's replacing. :(


I agree... I still do not believe that the A220-500 will see the light of the day (at least on a high scale) since, so far, Airbus cannot manager to make the A220 current offer either profitable or on a volume where they can compete for new orders with a shorter delivery timeline. Also, a A220-500 would potentially dilute and compete with the A320.
 
Jomar777
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:41 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Such a shame Boeing has neglected the large narrow body aircraft when they were ahead of the game with the 757. Boeing will be behind the competition for quite some time.

I also wonder if A350 orders get turned into some A321s


What would be interesting would be Boeing turning up with something that could directly compete with the A321XLR and tender for a launch airline. The delay on UA's A350 was done on the back of an order for the A321XLR. This particular order might increase or already act as a sweetener for UA to cancel the whole A350 order in future when it become palatable to Airbus (e.g. they do manage to sell those slots elsewhere or agree a penalty that UA might pay).

If Boeing manages to turn up with something worth of competing with the A321XLR, it would be very interesting to see what United would do...
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 14438
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:58 pm

United will most likely take the A350s into service because they feel there is no Boeing alternative with similar payload-range for them to replace the 777-200ER fleet on the Pacific.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
JFKalumni
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:45 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:57 pm

keesje wrote:
United will most likely take the A350s into service because they feel there is no Boeing alternative with similar payload-range for them to replace the 777-200ER fleet on the Pacific.


I can’t see A350’s operating east of DEN. My personal opinion is keep the A359 for:

LAX/SFO :

PPT, CTU, MEL, HKG, SIN, NRT, KIX, PVG, PEK, ICN, MNL, HND, GUM, AKL, TPE
 
ILikeTrains
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:18 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:07 pm

JFKalumni wrote:
keesje wrote:
United will most likely take the A350s into service because they feel there is no Boeing alternative with similar payload-range for them to replace the 777-200ER fleet on the Pacific.


I can’t see A350’s operating east of DEN. My personal opinion is keep the A359 for:

LAX/SFO :

PPT, CTU, MEL, HKG, SIN, NRT, KIX, PVG, PEK, ICN, MNL, HND, GUM, AKL, TPE


I agree that the the A359 will be much more west-coast focused. I do think it has a place on longer ranged, cargo-heavy routes out of ORD and EWR that cannot support the pax demand of a 77W.
 
ehaase
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:06 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:18 pm

I was under the impression that overcapacity and high competition existed on many Asian routes even pre-Covid. Seems to me the slightly smaller 789 would be perfectly adequate to replace the 77E on United's Asian routes.
 
JFKalumni
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:45 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:39 pm

ILikeTrains wrote:
JFKalumni wrote:
keesje wrote:
United will most likely take the A350s into service because they feel there is no Boeing alternative with similar payload-range for them to replace the 777-200ER fleet on the Pacific.


I can’t see A350’s operating east of DEN. My personal opinion is keep the A359 for:

LAX/SFO :

PPT, CTU, MEL, HKG, SIN, NRT, KIX, PVG, PEK, ICN, MNL, HND, GUM, AKL, TPE


I agree that the the A359 will be much more west-coast focused. I do think it has a place on longer ranged, cargo-heavy routes out of ORD and EWR that cannot support the pax demand of a 77W.


Now that UA invested in upgrading the 787’s with the new GEnx package, most of the 787’s will be Midwest and East coast birds. The 77W is perfect for

ORD/EWR:

NRT, DEL, BOM, TLV, HKG, PVG, PEK, and possibly GIG, GRU.

The 787’s are already proven to be valuable on the East
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11852
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:11 am

Seeking Alpha is suggesting possible order breakdown could be

200 737MAX8
60 A321neo
20 787-8
20 787-10

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/seeking ... for-boeing
Forum Moderator
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3161
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:23 am

qf789 wrote:
Seeking Alpha is suggesting possible order breakdown could be

200 737MAX8
60 A321neo
20 787-8
20 787-10

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/seeking ... for-boeing


Seeking Alpha is not a news source, it’s some guys who just speculate. Many forum members here are far more knowledgeable.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 14438
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:34 am

What would be interesting to know is if it would more interesting for UA to settle down on XLR's for standardization & network flexibility (future downturns) or get A321NEO's, slightly lighter and probably cheaper.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
JerseyFlyer
Posts: 1682
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 7:24 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:47 am

keesje wrote:
What would be interesting to know is if it would more interesting for UA to settle down on XLR's for standardization & network flexibility (future downturns) or get A321NEO's, slightly lighter and probably cheaper.


If UA orders standard A321neos, does it need the MAX10s it has on order? If not, these may be swapped back for MAX8s or 9s within the anticipated Boeing component of this order. If that happens I await with interest seeing how Boeing will spin the deal in its press release without admitting that UA thinks the 321neo superior to the MAX10!
 
User avatar
frigatebird
Posts: 1844
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:02 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:08 am

JerseyFlyer wrote:
keesje wrote:
What would be interesting to know is if it would more interesting for UA to settle down on XLR's for standardization & network flexibility (future downturns) or get A321NEO's, slightly lighter and probably cheaper.


If UA orders standard A321neos, does it need the MAX10s it has on order? If not, these may be swapped back for MAX8s or 9s within the anticipated Boeing component of this order. If that happens I await with interest seeing how Boeing will spin the deal in its press release without admitting that UA thinks the 321neo superior to the MAX10!

I wouldn't be surprised if UA already swapped part of their -10 order to -8's. The MAX-8's for UA now rolling out at Renton were already in production before UA firmed their MAX-8 order this year...

Boeing probably won't say anything about it. UA swapped a substantial part of their launch order for 787-10 to -9's a few years ago, this was also done quietly. As Boeing doesn't disclose which version of the MAX is ordered anyway, we'll probably only know if we ever see a 737-10 in UA colors...
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,346,359,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 11894
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:26 am

I don’t see why UA wouldn’t operate both the Max-10 and the A321neo. It literally costs UA nothing to have both in fleet considering their large A320 fleet and extremely large 737 fleet, and allows them to build up the upper end of their narrow body fleet that much faster.
 
User avatar
intotheair
Posts: 1996
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:34 am

Isn’t UA the launch customer of sorts for the Max 10? I have trouble imagining they’d walk out of that.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 7M9 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90 ——— AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
jayunited
Posts: 3517
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:05 pm

frigatebird wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if UA already swapped part of their -10 order to -8's. The MAX-8's for UA now rolling out at Renton were already in production before UA firmed their MAX-8 order this year...

Boeing probably won't say anything about it. UA swapped a substantial part of their launch order for 787-10 to -9's a few years ago, this was also done quietly. As Boeing doesn't disclose which version of the MAX is ordered anyway, we'll probably only know if we ever see a 737-10 in UA colors...


United's MAX 8 order has been on the books for a few years now. People started talking about the MAX 8 order in 2019 (full disclosure it did take me a while to find the order and I had to eat a slice of humble pie on the United Fleet/Network thread in 2020 when I finally did locate some information internally that confirmed UA's order).

Why would UA get rid of their MAX 10 order?

The 50 A321XLRs will most likely be used out of EWR, IAD and maybe ORD to secondary European destinations and perhaps IAH-to select destinations in South America. Also United has already stated the A321XLR will have some type of premium cabin with so I'm estimating UA's seating capacity on the A321XLRs to be between 150 and 160 total seats.

Right now United has a major shortage of narrowbody aircraft in the 185-200 seat range. Our 739ER/MAX 9 seat 179 total passengers, after the 739ER/MAX 9 we have nothing except 753s at 234 total seats and we only have 21 753s in our fleet. Now compare United's narrowbody fleet on the high end to that of AA and DL and what you will notice is both these airlines have a whole slew of A321s that can accommodate between 187 and 192 total passengers while United at the moment has absolutely nothing. Some MAX 10s are slated to be delivered in a premium layout while others will have a standard layout. The MAX 10s with a standard layout could potentially accommodate 189-196 total passengers. Combine the existing MAX 10 order with a suspected A321NEO order and United could potentially have 60 A321NEOs and perhaps another 50 or so MAX 10s giving us the critical capacity we need in the 185 -200 seat seat range.

I think the current MAX 10 order remains as is especially if we are only talking about 60 A321NEOs.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14444
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:29 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Seeking Alpha is suggesting possible order breakdown could be

200 737MAX8
60 A321neo
20 787-8
20 787-10

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/seeking ... for-boeing


Seeking Alpha is not a news source, it’s some guys who just speculate. Many forum members here are far more knowledgeable.


Point taken about Seeking Alpha, but that breakdown they provided does make sense.

Max 8 to replace A320s and oldest 737-800s, plus room for growth.
60 A321NEOs, Denver-Hawaii, domestic premium LAX/SFO-BOS, JFK, EWR, DCA, IAD etc..
20 787-8, replace oldest 767-300s
20 787-10 replace the 77A..
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
JFKalumni
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:45 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:23 pm

jayunited wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if UA already swapped part of their -10 order to -8's. The MAX-8's for UA now rolling out at Renton were already in production before UA firmed their MAX-8 order this year...

Boeing probably won't say anything about it. UA swapped a substantial part of their launch order for 787-10 to -9's a few years ago, this was also done quietly. As Boeing doesn't disclose which version of the MAX is ordered anyway, we'll probably only know if we ever see a 737-10 in UA colors...


United's MAX 8 order has been on the books for a few years now. People started talking about the MAX 8 order in 2019 (full disclosure it did take me a while to find the order and I had to eat a slice of humble pie on the United Fleet/Network thread in 2020 when I finally did locate some information internally that confirmed UA's order).

Why would UA get rid of their MAX 10 order?

The 50 A321XLRs will most likely be used out of EWR, IAD and maybe ORD to secondary European destinations and perhaps IAH-to select destinations in South America. Also United has already stated the A321XLR will have some type of premium cabin with so I'm estimating UA's seating capacity on the A321XLRs to be between 150 and 160 total seats.

Right now United has a major shortage of narrowbody aircraft in the 185-200 seat range. Our 739ER/MAX 9 seat 179 total passengers, after the 739ER/MAX 9 we have nothing except 753s at 234 total seats and we only have 21 753s in our fleet. Now compare United's narrowbody fleet on the high end to that of AA and DL and what you will notice is both these airlines have a whole slew of A321s that can accommodate between 187 and 192 total passengers while United at the moment has absolutely nothing. Some MAX 10s are slated to be delivered in a premium layout while others will have a standard layout. The MAX 10s with a standard layout could potentially accommodate 189-196 total passengers. Combine the existing MAX 10 order with a suspected A321NEO order and United could potentially have 60 A321NEOs and perhaps another 50 or so MAX 10s giving us the critical capacity we need in the 185 -200 seat seat range.

I think the current MAX 10 order remains as is especially if we are only talking about 60 A321NEOs.


I agree, the Max 10 will be the ultimate EWR/IAD weekend Caribbean workhorse. UA can order the lighter A321LR to cover Hawaii and also backup Trans Atlantic operations. TAP utilize this plane into EWR so it can support an out of service XLR if needed for a swap. I think that 60 A321 order is too conservative for the current 757-300 and 767-300ER situation. I would guess 75 frames or more.
 
User avatar
frigatebird
Posts: 1844
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:02 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:35 pm

jayunited wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if UA already swapped part of their -10 order to -8's. The MAX-8's for UA now rolling out at Renton were already in production before UA firmed their MAX-8 order this year...

Boeing probably won't say anything about it. UA swapped a substantial part of their launch order for 787-10 to -9's a few years ago, this was also done quietly. As Boeing doesn't disclose which version of the MAX is ordered anyway, we'll probably only know if we ever see a 737-10 in UA colors...


United's MAX 8 order has been on the books for a few years now. People started talking about the MAX 8 order in 2019 (full disclosure it did take me a while to find the order and I had to eat a slice of humble pie on the United Fleet/Network thread in 2020 when I finally did locate some information internally that confirmed UA's order).

Why would UA get rid of their MAX 10 order?

The 50 A321XLRs will most likely be used out of EWR, IAD and maybe ORD to secondary European destinations and perhaps IAH-to select destinations in South America. Also United has already stated the A321XLR will have some type of premium cabin with so I'm estimating UA's seating capacity on the A321XLRs to be between 150 and 160 total seats.

Right now United has a major shortage of narrowbody aircraft in the 185-200 seat range. Our 739ER/MAX 9 seat 179 total passengers, after the 739ER/MAX 9 we have nothing except 753s at 234 total seats and we only have 21 753s in our fleet. Now compare United's narrowbody fleet on the high end to that of AA and DL and what you will notice is both these airlines have a whole slew of A321s that can accommodate between 187 and 192 total passengers while United at the moment has absolutely nothing. Some MAX 10s are slated to be delivered in a premium layout while others will have a standard layout. The MAX 10s with a standard layout could potentially accommodate 189-196 total passengers. Combine the existing MAX 10 order with a suspected A321NEO order and United could potentially have 60 A321NEOs and perhaps another 50 or so MAX 10s giving us the critical capacity we need in the 185 -200 seat seat range.

I think the current MAX 10 order remains as is especially if we are only talking about 60 A321NEOs.

Thank you Jayunited for your detailed reply. So it seems UA's order for 24 737 MAX placed in December 2018 was for the -8 variant, then?

Indeed UA could operate the MAX-10 on shorter 1-2 hour routes, where it allegedly can compete with the A321neo cost wise. Whether they need 100 as initially ordered I'm not totally sure though. Maybe 50, as you say. We'll see.
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,346,359,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
User avatar
ElroyJetson
Posts: 975
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 5:04 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:35 pm

jayunited wrote:
MDC862 wrote:
The 350 has been kicked down the road two times; rumor is it will be done a 3rd time then cancelled. By keeping it on the books it gives UA options, but over a decade has passed since the order and UA is on its 3rd administration since then. If there was a need to have the plane it would have been here by now but in the meantime additional 787 orders are placed and delivered. Now, with global traffic years away, no incentive to take delivery of it.


Yes the A350 order has been kicked down the road twice now but you have to look at why. The original order for 25 A359s was placed pre-merger my s-UA they were slated as a replacement for UA's 744s, s-UA placed this order because we were in full retreat and was struggling to fill our 744s. Then the merger happened long story short the now combined UA needed an aircraft with the capacity of the 744 so s-UA's order was change to the A35J and increase to 35 frames with deliveries scheduled to begin by December of 2018 and United would begin retiring our 744 in early 2019. However United realized our 744s wouldn't make it until 2019 or 2020 and they needed an aircraft that would allow us to retire our 744s starting in 2016, Airbus offered the A380 which was a nonstarter while Boeing offered both the 748 and the 77W. United flat out turned down the 748 because t. he airline wasn't interested in 4 engine aircraft which lead to the 77W entering the fleet. Since United does not need both the 77W and the A35J in our fleet Scott Kirby during his exhaustive fleet review decided the A359 would be the best replacement for UA 77Es once those frames come up on retirement.

Having spent 25 years working for this airline and knowing the interworking of this airline I firmly believe the A359s will join the fleet starting in 2027 because the 789 is to small not enough seats, the 78X in its current form is max out United would need to hold off payload on any flight longer than 11.5 hours, leaving the A359 as UA's best option.

United does not need the aircraft right now which is why the aircraft isn't in the fleet however this was discussed in the United Fleet and Network thread, last month during an NOC town hall it was revealed UA has approached Airbus over moving up the A359 delivery date if the PW 777s can't be returned to service. The response we were told Airbus gave was they would allow UA to move up the A359 deliveries if necessary. However in the same town hall United did say they expect all PW 77Es to return to service in 2022 provided Boeing can fix (strengthen or redesign) the cowling and thus far Boeing believes they can fix the cowling issue. The 77As are still questionable at this point in time because those aircraft need would need Pratt and Whitney to come up with a fix for the fan blades.


Thanks for your post. It is refreshing to get some fact based information versus mostly speculation. Your prior posts regarding UA's 787-10's were enlightening. Particularly in regard to the 787-10's true real world payload range capabilities versus naysayers who claimed it was a far less capable aircraft.

As for UA overall, I believe management has truly turned the corner. I think UA's fleet strategy is on point, and I think their build out of the DEN hub has been brilliant. I know for a fact when UA started RIC-DEN flights they were consistently getting 80% or better LF's from the start. Ditto ORF-DEN. In making these moves at DEN UA effectively beat WN to the punch and opened up new markets. DEN is a rapidly growing metro area and I believe UA is truly capitalizing on the opportunities there. Overall, I applaud the moves UA is making.
 
N649DL
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:02 pm

LHAM wrote:
Great news for team Boeing. Hopefully the deal is not for a firesale price tag.


Does UA even have the cash flow and/or assets to pay for 100 new planes right now?
 
FluidFlow
Posts: 1043
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:08 pm

If the 20 787-8s are true the Boeing MoM is truely dead as the XLRs and the 787-8 cover the retirements of the 757/767s together with the MAX-10s
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 11894
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:10 pm

N649DL wrote:
LHAM wrote:
Great news for team Boeing. Hopefully the deal is not for a firesale price tag.


Does UA even have the cash flow and/or assets to pay for 100 new planes right now?

You don’t pay for the entire plane immediately upon ordering.

If you have confidence in recovery now is the time you want to start considering buying planes while prices are still lower.
 
User avatar
jetblastdubai
Posts: 2039
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:11 pm

Polot wrote:
I don’t see why UA wouldn’t operate both the Max-10 and the A321neo. It literally costs UA nothing to have both in fleet considering their large A320 fleet and extremely large 737 fleet, and allows them to build up the upper end of their narrow body fleet that much faster.


The MAX 10 and 321neo are nearly identical on paper. http://www.aviatorjoe.net/go/compare/A3 ... 37_MAX_10/

It's nice to see UA taking advantage of the current state of aviation to beef up it's domestic fleet to better match the domestic capacity of it's competitors. My concern is that unless these new mainline A/C actually replace a good chunk of older mainline or a substantial amount of RJ frames, the UA hubs, for the most part, don't have a lot of space to accommodate a lot of additional planes.

IAD might be the biggest winner here and if UA can build it up enough, it could finally compete with DCA in many markets with more competitive schedules and frequencies.
It sounds like thunder but the way this year is going, it could be Godzilla!
 
bigb
Posts: 1365
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:13 pm

ElroyJetson wrote:
jayunited wrote:
MDC862 wrote:
The 350 has been kicked down the road two times; rumor is it will be done a 3rd time then cancelled. By keeping it on the books it gives UA options, but over a decade has passed since the order and UA is on its 3rd administration since then. If there was a need to have the plane it would have been here by now but in the meantime additional 787 orders are placed and delivered. Now, with global traffic years away, no incentive to take delivery of it.


Yes the A350 order has been kicked down the road twice now but you have to look at why. The original order for 25 A359s was placed pre-merger my s-UA they were slated as a replacement for UA's 744s, s-UA placed this order because we were in full retreat and was struggling to fill our 744s. Then the merger happened long story short the now combined UA needed an aircraft with the capacity of the 744 so s-UA's order was change to the A35J and increase to 35 frames with deliveries scheduled to begin by December of 2018 and United would begin retiring our 744 in early 2019. However United realized our 744s wouldn't make it until 2019 or 2020 and they needed an aircraft that would allow us to retire our 744s starting in 2016, Airbus offered the A380 which was a nonstarter while Boeing offered both the 748 and the 77W. United flat out turned down the 748 because t. he airline wasn't interested in 4 engine aircraft which lead to the 77W entering the fleet. Since United does not need both the 77W and the A35J in our fleet Scott Kirby during his exhaustive fleet review decided the A359 would be the best replacement for UA 77Es once those frames come up on retirement.

Having spent 25 years working for this airline and knowing the interworking of this airline I firmly believe the A359s will join the fleet starting in 2027 because the 789 is to small not enough seats, the 78X in its current form is max out United would need to hold off payload on any flight longer than 11.5 hours, leaving the A359 as UA's best option.

United does not need the aircraft right now which is why the aircraft isn't in the fleet however this was discussed in the United Fleet and Network thread, last month during an NOC town hall it was revealed UA has approached Airbus over moving up the A359 delivery date if the PW 777s can't be returned to service. The response we were told Airbus gave was they would allow UA to move up the A359 deliveries if necessary. However in the same town hall United did say they expect all PW 77Es to return to service in 2022 provided Boeing can fix (strengthen or redesign) the cowling and thus far Boeing believes they can fix the cowling issue. The 77As are still questionable at this point in time because those aircraft need would need Pratt and Whitney to come up with a fix for the fan blades.


Thanks for your post. It is refreshing to get some fact based information versus mostly speculation. Your prior posts regarding UA's 787-10's were enlightening. Particularly in regard to the 787-10's true real world payload range capabilities versus naysayers who claimed it was a far less capable aircraft.

As for UA overall, I believe management has truly turned the corner. I think UA's fleet strategy is on point, and I think their build out of the DEN hub has been brilliant. I know for a fact when UA started RIC-DEN flights they were consistently getting 80% or better LF's from the start. Ditto ORF-DEN. In making these moves at DEN UA effectively beat WN to the punch and opened up new markets. DEN is a rapidly growing metro area and I believe UA is truly capitalizing on the opportunities there. Overall, I applaud the moves UA is making.


ORF-DEN has been a life saver for my commute up to ANC.
 
bob75013
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:19 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
Leeham is speculating about a possible Airbus announcement tomorrow - A322 for UA??

https://leehamnews.com/2021/06/14/airbu ... ls-reveal/


I guess that you have not heard: Airbus has announced there will be no A322
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3161
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:24 pm

bob75013 wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
Leeham is speculating about a possible Airbus announcement tomorrow - A322 for UA??

https://leehamnews.com/2021/06/14/airbu ... ls-reveal/


I guess that you have not heard: Airbus has announced there will be no A322


He posted that before Airbus announced.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3517
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Airlines in advanced talks on purchasing 100-150 737MAX

Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:57 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
te]

The MAX 10 and 321neo are nearly identical on paper. http://www.aviatorjoe.net/go/compare/A3 ... 37_MAX_10/

It's nice to see UA taking advantage of the current state of aviation to beef up it's domestic fleet to better match the domestic capacity of it's competitors. My concern is that unless these new mainline A/C actually replace a good chunk of older mainline or a substantial amount of RJ frames, the UA hubs, for the most part, don't have a lot of space to accommodate a lot of additional planes.

IAD might be the biggest winner here and if UA can build it up enough, it could finally compete with DCA in many markets with more competitive schedules and frequencies.


I don't know what s-CO hubs were like pre-merger but I can speak to s-UA hubs both pre-merger and even during bankruptcy. United cut entire banks out of IAD, ORD, DEN, SFO and LAX during bankruptcy then again during the early years of the merger when were were still in full retreat. I posted this in the Chicago aviation thread as it pertains to United hitting 700 daily departures at some point in the future. Summer of 2019 we were well on our way with over 630 daily departures, United can absolutely hit 700 daily departures at ORD using our current infrastructure by beefing up our 7am - 9am, our 9pm - 10pm departure bank and by completely restoring the 10pm departure bank which was completely axed. One thing United continues to talk about in just about every town hall is not only rebuilding all our hubs but growing all of our hubs, the only way I see UA growing the hubs is by adding additional banks either in the morning or at night in that 9-11 pm time range.
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 19

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos