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panam330
Topic Author
Posts: 2205
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

WN Adds SYR

Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:20 pm

https://cnycentral.com/news/local/south ... se-airport

A whopping 2-3x daily to BWI and Saturday-only MCO.
 
SyracuseAvGeek
Posts: 734
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Re: WN Adds SYR

Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:35 pm

This is pretty much what I expected to start out with. Maybe if booking are the good then they might add another destination.
"I haven't been everywhere yet, but it's on my list."
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2984
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: WN Adds SYR

Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:07 pm

So at long last WN will be starting SYR.
 
TucsonDave
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:54 pm

Re: WN Adds SYR

Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:39 pm

Actually the pax figures for ROC and SYR were very similar in 2019. The SW service should help stem the bleed from SYR's catchment area, and you may see SYR's numbers increase rather significantly in 2022. ALB draws from not only the Capital Region, but western parts of VT, MA, and even CT. Twenty years ago, SW staff at ALB told me they received numerous daily pax complaints about lack of service to SYR.

SW started RIC with 3 n/s to ATL and occasional service to MCO and TPA, so there is precedent for what SW is doing in SYR. Of course, RIC has more pax volume than either ROC or SYR.
Last edited by TucsonDave on Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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fraspotter
Posts: 2274
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Re: WN Adds SYR

Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:42 pm

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
This is pretty much what I expected to start out with. Maybe if booking are the good then they might add another destination.


Syracuse reminds me a lot of Richmond. Southwest started out with just ATL service there as a result of the Air Tran takeover and slowly added destinations including MCO, TPA, DEN and MDW. If demand is solid I could see them add MDW eventually.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."

— Gunter's Second Law of Air Travel
 
ScottB
Posts: 7345
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: WN Adds SYR

Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:10 pm

panam330 wrote:
Where did I say I expected more?


When you added "A whopping" in front of "2-3x daily to BWI." That clearly telegraphs you find the announced service to be inadequate/underwhelming.

panam330 wrote:
Also, in 2019, ROC had a whole 366 (yes, 366) more enplanements more than SYR, metro size be damned.


Sure, but SYR has a larger ULCC presence than ROC -- 13 different airports served (including seasonal markets) from SYR vs. 3 from ROC. If we look at 2015 numbers, ROC had about 20% more traffic than SYR. The ULCC presence at SYR has obviously provided significant traffic stimulus at SYR, but it also makes the market more challenging for WN to enter.
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 135
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: WN Adds SYR

Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:22 pm

ScottB wrote:
panam330 wrote:
A whopping 2-3x daily to BWI and Saturday-only MCO.


I'm not sure why you'd expect a whole lot more? It's a smaller market than ALB or ROC and there are three other carriers with service to Florida. The only other somewhat logical market would be MDW and there's non-stop service already to ORD on both AA & UA.

It seems pretty obvious that WN is in SYR as a political favor to Chuck Schumer. I'd expect to see them getting some sort of access to JFK or more slots at LGA as a result.


Bingo! We have winner. It was just six days ago that article showed the Senator Schumer was urging WN to come to SYR. Let's hope he does assist with JFK and LGA.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7345
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Re: WN Adds SYR

Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:26 pm

Abeam79 wrote:
You think B6 with Schumer as their defacto ops manager in the NY region is going to have his baby project that is B6 be giving favors away to WN in none other than JFK? WN in JFK will not offer more than what they offer in LGA.


I think Schumer has noticed B6 making noise about potentially moving their headquarters out of NYC/NY State, not to mention their choice to locate their training campus at MCO. I can't imagine he'd be pleased about hundreds of high-paying jobs going to Florida. Helping out WN with access to JFK reminds B6 management who got them access to JFK to begin with and why they shouldn't bite the hand that feeds them.
 
Abeam79
Posts: 386
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Re: WN Adds SYR

Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:00 pm

Sooo...screw the company that has attributed to thousands of jobs in the NY region before they haven't made a decision to a Texas company that may just get a few slots for a petty play? B6 has also been very public that are are looking at other NY locations as well. NY just got google and Amazon huge offices in the city. Look up when B6 relocated their HQ from Forest Hills to Long Island city almost a decade ago and you'll see why B6 talks about looking at HQ places. The reason they got the nice deal in LIC was because they made public of looking elsewhere, its a smart move to bring local leaders to the table. Schumer did this as a favor to Syracuse, which is in New York, the state Schumer represents. Did we forget that Schumer is a NY politician in which he has to also bring in favors to the state he represents, not a out of state company?
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9434
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Re: WN Adds SYR

Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:41 pm

I don't this should be predicted to be a sleazy quid pro quo, of the form 'How 'bout you add a flight to CAE for me?'

https://skift.com/2015/09/09/the-chairm ... ceo-fired/

Schumer's primary mechanism for 'helping' a carrier is with legislation. That's public record, and (at least) fifty other senators will immediately oppose it.
 
Pi7472000
Posts: 278
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Re: WN Adds SYR

Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:48 pm

Syracuse is not a large city. This is very reasonable. I could see MDW or DEN eventually.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7345
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: WN Adds SYR

Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:22 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
I don't this should be predicted to be a sleazy quid pro quo, of the form 'How 'bout you add a flight to CAE for me?'


I don't think there's any question of a quid pro quo that benefits Schumer personally like the Chairman's Flight. He's not from Syracuse so it's not service he'd likely use apart from showing up to tout his track record on economic development upstate. He gets political points with the constituents upstate and WN probably gets an easier path to slots in NYC.

Abeam79 wrote:
Sooo...screw the company that has attributed to thousands of jobs in the NY region before they haven't made a decision to a Texas company that may just get a few slots for a petty play? B6 has also been very public that are are looking at other NY locations as well.


WN getting a handful of slots at JFK isn't screwing B6. There's still no comparison with the hundreds of slots B6 has, along with 30+ gates. But you'd better believe there's a message tied to B6's flirtation with moving the HQ out of state.
 
teneriffe77
Posts: 385
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:00 am

Re: WN Adds SYR

Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:34 pm

panam330 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
panam330 wrote:
A whopping 2-3x daily to BWI and Saturday-only MCO.


I'm not sure why you'd expect a whole lot more? It's a smaller market than ALB or ROC and there are three other carriers with service to Florida. The only other somewhat logical market would be MDW and there's non-stop service already to ORD on both AA & UA.

It seems pretty obvious that WN is in SYR as a political favor to Chuck Schumer. I'd expect to see them getting some sort of access to JFK or more slots at LGA as a result.


Where did I say I expected more? Syracuse is a dying city with a zombie economy; the only thing more I would expect is maybe a TPA or FLL flight a couple days a week if thru bookings are particularly strong.

Also, in 2019, ROC had a whole 366 (yes, 366) more enplanements more than SYR, metro size be damned.

https://syrairport.org/wp-content/uploa ... c-2019.pdf
https://rocairport.com/info


As one lives in Syracuse I resent that comment about Syracuse being a dying city with a zombie economy (that term applies to cities like Youngstown Ohio). Yes the big factories of old are gone but they have been partially replaced by service and healthcare jobs. The downtown area is looking a lot better than before and Onondaga lake and many other areas have been cleaned up. Air service wise it has gained a daily flight to DEN and soon DFW plus the airport itself is very friendly to aviation enthusiasts.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2813
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: WN Adds SYR

Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:05 am

How about the days of Eastern operating a daily PHL-SYR flight with an L-1011! How times have changed :(
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: WN Adds SYR

Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:10 am

Wneast wrote:
iAvgeek737 wrote:
ScottB wrote:

I'm not sure why you'd expect a whole lot more? It's a smaller market than ALB or ROC and there are three other carriers with service to Florida. The only other somewhat logical market would be MDW and there's non-stop service already to ORD on both AA & UA.

It seems pretty obvious that WN is in SYR as a political favor to Chuck Schumer. I'd expect to see them getting some sort of access to JFK or more slots at LGA as a result.


Wasnt there talk of SWA and UAL fighting for JFK slots that AA/B6 were forced to give up?

Yes this is in high talks

What is in high talks?? The slots?? They will go through a bidding process, not Chuck Schumer’s office. The FAA will set it up.
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
panam330
Topic Author
Posts: 2205
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

Re: WN Adds SYR

Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:19 pm

teneriffe77 wrote:
panam330 wrote:
ScottB wrote:

I'm not sure why you'd expect a whole lot more? It's a smaller market than ALB or ROC and there are three other carriers with service to Florida. The only other somewhat logical market would be MDW and there's non-stop service already to ORD on both AA & UA.

It seems pretty obvious that WN is in SYR as a political favor to Chuck Schumer. I'd expect to see them getting some sort of access to JFK or more slots at LGA as a result.


Where did I say I expected more? Syracuse is a dying city with a zombie economy; the only thing more I would expect is maybe a TPA or FLL flight a couple days a week if thru bookings are particularly strong.

Also, in 2019, ROC had a whole 366 (yes, 366) more enplanements more than SYR, metro size be damned.

https://syrairport.org/wp-content/uploa ... c-2019.pdf
https://rocairport.com/info


As one lives in Syracuse I resent that comment about Syracuse being a dying city with a zombie economy (that term applies to cities like Youngstown Ohio). Yes the big factories of old are gone but they have been partially replaced by service and healthcare jobs. The downtown area is looking a lot better than before and Onondaga lake and many other areas have been cleaned up. Air service wise it has gained a daily flight to DEN and soon DFW plus the airport itself is very friendly to aviation enthusiasts.

I lived there for over 20 years; I think I’m quite qualified to make that statement. 2 new routes and the airport being “friendly to aviation enthusiasts” doesn’t make the economy good. Average incomes are low, taxes are high, industries have left in droves. It is a standard rust belt city story.
 
panam330
Topic Author
Posts: 2205
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

Re: WN Adds SYR

Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:43 pm

ScottB wrote:
panam330 wrote:
Where did I say I expected more?


When you added "A whopping" in front of "2-3x daily to BWI." That clearly telegraphs you find the announced service to be inadequate/underwhelming.


Underwhelming =/= Inadequate. Syracuse excels at being underwhelming; I do not find the amount of service inadequate.

panam330 wrote:
Also, in 2019, ROC had a whole 366 (yes, 366) more enplanements more than SYR, metro size be damned.


Sure, but SYR has a larger ULCC presence than ROC -- 13 different airports served (including seasonal markets) from SYR vs. 3 from ROC. If we look at 2015 numbers, ROC had about 20% more traffic than SYR. The ULCC presence at SYR has obviously provided significant traffic stimulus at SYR, but it also makes the market more challenging for WN to enter.[/quote]

So your point is that SYR only has the pax numbers it does because it has a larger amount of ULCCs? If Rochester’s market had more potential with current/recent conditions, would the ULCCs not have grown there instead?
 
WeatherPilot
Posts: 559
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:51 am

Re: WN Adds SYR

Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:39 am

Anyone have any idea what gate they’d likely be using at SYR? I’m thinking either 5 or 15. American rarely uses 5 and 15 hasn’t been used by anyone for a while.
 
teneriffe77
Posts: 385
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:00 am

Re: WN Adds SYR

Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:59 am

When it comes to gates it's hard to tell as the only unassigned gates (the former Northwest and the former United mainline gates are both used as overflow by other carriers). Lately AA has been overnighting 6 planes (2 to PHL, 2 to CLT and 1 to DCA plus 1 to ORD) and they must have only 5 jetways as 1 E-145 is backed away from a jetway. BTW some companies that left like Allied Chemical left a nasty polluted legacy behind so good riddance to them.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4393
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: WN Adds SYR

Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:41 am

Here are the top remaining markets in the contiguous U.S. without WN service by number of passengers in 2019:
TYS - 2497971
MSN - 2328717
GSO - 2162887
XNA - 1784227
DAY - 1695915 (previously served by WN)
AVL - 1616569
MDT - 1498445
HSV - 1424801
LEX - 1415135
BTV - 1372019
 
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ssteve
Posts: 1496
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Re: WN Adds SYR

Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:51 am

Hey, good on Schumer if he GAF about SYR. NY 24th is R now, but not by much...

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