Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
planecane
Posts: 1731
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:55 pm

JonesNL wrote:
Revelation wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
It is so unfortunate that Boeing has chosen to let Southwest dictate their 737 decisions, they should have put a 787 style cockpit in the MAX imho.

I don't think that was ever on the table. Putting 787's tech onto 737 would have been an all new airplane from a certification point of view. None of the systems are FBW capable, they all would have needed to be replaced. C-Series cause Airbus to do NEO and in turn Boeing to do MAX. They weren't ever going to take on a 787 cockpit and the systems upgrades it would require in the time frame they were working with.

On the other hand, I have read via Peter Lemme's posts to Twitter that putting the 757 cockpit into the 737 NG was on the table. It made sense from Boeing's point of view. The 757 was still in production so it would have brought economy of scale and cockpit similarity across 737-757-767. 757 was not FBW so the engineering effort was reasonable. The ex-McDD bean counters were not in charge, Boeing was still an engineering firm. Sadly, it got shot down by Southwest due to training costs. One of the great "what if" moments in airliner history, IMO.

planecane wrote:
Which is essentially the reason that Boeing went with the MAX instead of a clean sheet. The technology didn't exist to make the small improvement over the MAX/NEO worth the enormous investment. In hindsight, it would have been worth it to avoid the MCAS fiasco .

You can't know that a clean sheet would not have been extremely fouled up knowing there was time pressure from the market and cost pressure from Boeing management and FAA management willing to accommodate Boeing's schedule demands and not support their own people. Calhoun seems to be much more realistic about what can be accomplished in a given amount of time and very cognizant of the current regulatory environment. IMO a clean sheet 737 replacement would never have happened under the previous regime so the point is moot.


I do not understand the shouting for clean sheet everything. It is totally unrealistic. Financial suicide, see recent case in point Bombardier.

What this industry need is an radical revolution in development costs a la SpaceX and not more me too clean sheets.It is just to costly to do new designs so we rarely see new designs. A and B should try to scoop as many engineers from SpaceX just to learn about how they can improve the development cycle. If that happens the rate of innovation would be grow exponentially…


There is a level of risk that is acceptable in space travel which is not remotely acceptable in commercial air travel. For launch, they clear the flight path below a rocket in case it explodes. There is a not-insignificant chance that something catastrophic happens on every flight. Heck, with the horrendous safety record of the Space Shuttle, they still flew 22 missions after the second hull loss and complete loss of crew. Does anybody think there weren't some other undiscovered design issues that could have popped up afterwards?

SpaceX has regular crashes and explosions occur during their development cycle. Can you imagine if a few 777Xs crashed in test flights and the CEO announced how much they learned from it?
 
Noshow
Posts: 2705
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:04 pm

Airbus has digested the A380 termination, all written off. What factories does Airbus need to invest in? As it is they do not need more capacity.
Compared to Boeing Airbus is healthy. A small loss for 2020, 35 million EUR, a decent equity, 6.45 billion EUR, and no deferred cost that still need to be booked to cost and booked out of inventories. Add to that 14.5 billion EUR cash and Airbus could run a new development without blinking an eye.


They are setting up another line in the A380 hangars in Toulouse. They beef up Mobile and the A220 rate. They built a new XLR line at Hamburg. They modernise and grow the A321 and maybe design a new wing. There is something else on their table. Other than Boeing they don't need to move first.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 14178
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:48 pm

JonesNL wrote:
I do not understand the shouting for clean sheet everything.

That's because of the fallacy that "newer" automatically equals "better" in any given aspect, which is extremely pronounced in the general public's perception of any product, say nothing of tech-related issues.



JoergAtADN wrote:
SEPilot wrote:
Airbus then need to look at the MoM segment with the A321XLR (with a new carbon fibre wingbox and bigger wing) as the base model. A second model with about 30 more seats should complete this range and we will have a true B757 replacement.

This makes no sense to me - there is no competing aircraft and Airbus owns this market segment already. They would not sell any additional aircraft if they invest in this segment.

^ This.

It would be utterly illogical for Airbus to strike first with an all-new offering in that segment, when they already have an uncontested product that is selling fast, to everything from global hub carriers to LoCos.

No sense whatsoever in doing that.
 
Noshow
Posts: 2705
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:35 pm

It does make very much sense.
As debated earlier it could be a cheap, fast, low risk response to any NMA. As NMA would need to be expensive high tech Airbus could undercut it because of lower own investments needed. Airbus just having this option harms the NMA business case as could be seen already.
 
airzona11
Posts: 1896
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:46 pm

Noshow wrote:
It does make very much sense.
As debated earlier it could be a cheap, fast, low risk response to any NMA. As NMA would need to be expensive high tech Airbus could undercut it because of lower own investments needed. Airbus just having this option harms the NMA business case as could be seen already.


The dollars of it are that as much as we all want new planes, airlines have 2 options to choose from and as long as they are buying the current models, there’s minimal if any business case for anything but warmed over models.
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 5733
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:30 am

Grizzly410 wrote:
keesje wrote:
A220-500, A320Plus, A322NEO, A350-2000, A350 Ultrafan, A350-950F, MAWS, A330NEO MRTT. So many derivative programs to spend billions..


A350-950F, A322NEO, A220-500 looks like no brainers to me.

A350-2000, A350 Ultrafan, seems like good ideas for later if the market warrant it

A320Plus, I'm not convinced about an investment fragmenting the portfolio capabilites instead of expanding it. Cost saving against operating an A321 can't be that much.

MAWS, A330NEO MRTT, Airbus Defence&Space is rather busy with Eurodrone and SCAF in terms of development I don't see them engaging in something anything soon. I think we discussed A330 NEO MRTT elsewhere, consensus was that there was close to no chance of it happening.

Is A220-500 really a sensible choice when Boeing's 737 cannot really compete against Airbus's existing A320 lineup, which mean most of the A220-500 would be taken from its own A320 line, and further eroding Boeing's pie by A220-500 could stimulate Boeing into developing a new post-737 narrowbody that would poses greater competition against Airbus in narrowbody segment that might not be good to Airbus overall?
 
Rekoff
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 7:15 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:48 am

c933103 wrote:
Is A220-500 really a sensible choice when Boeing's 737 cannot really compete against Airbus's existing A320 lineup, which mean most of the A220-500 would be taken from its own A320 line, and further eroding Boeing's pie by A220-500 could stimulate Boeing into developing a new post-737 narrowbody that would poses greater competition against Airbus in narrowbody segment that might not be good to Airbus overall?


As long as an A220-500 will be more expensive to produce then an A320 (and I expect it will be), and there is no competitive need like a MAX7 successor optimised for short range, the A220 stretch makes zero economic sense for Airbus. The A322 on the other hand is a completely different case. First it will command higher revenues with higher margins, so every A321 conversion is a net win. Furthermore it will open up new markets, driving sales on itself. Thirdly, it will cover the bottom of the MoM market for prices and fleet efficiences that the NMA can't compete against. Making the business case for the NMA more difficult, hampering the NMA/NSA stepping stone strategy.

People saying the A322 makes no sense seem to ignore all these economic and strategic arguments in favor of the stretch, since I'm not the first to mention them. They do however apply to the A225. It seems the line of thought then is; what's valid for one stretch is also valid for the other, when they are not for the reasons mentioned. There is even a possible fourth argument for the A322: they can test the waters with the new WOT on one segment of the 32X series. But we dont know when that wing will be ready. With the XLR integrated tank and optimised wing most of the building blocks for the stretch are already in place. Personally I'm expecting an A322 launch around the XLR EIS timefrime.

I would love to see Airbus focussing on a smaller, less capable A330 successor after the A322 that's highly optimised for medium-haul, with that WOT, but I guess this interview puts a damper on those hopes.
 
Noshow
Posts: 2705
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:46 am

They better stay cautious. There is no reason for experiments and burning money.
Is this the way to go for everybody else? Likely not.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9652
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:40 am

Noshow wrote:
Airbus has digested the A380 termination, all written off. What factories does Airbus need to invest in? As it is they do not need more capacity.
Compared to Boeing Airbus is healthy. A small loss for 2020, 35 million EUR, a decent equity, 6.45 billion EUR, and no deferred cost that still need to be booked to cost and booked out of inventories. Add to that 14.5 billion EUR cash and Airbus could run a new development without blinking an eye.


They are setting up another line in the A380 hangars in Toulouse. They beef up Mobile and the A220 rate. They built a new XLR line at Hamburg. They modernise and grow the A321 and maybe design a new wing. There is something else on their table. Other than Boeing they don't need to move first.


They were and are perhaps again planning, to set up a new line in Toulouse, no need for it without a significant increase in production, the current setup is good for 66 frames a month. They have been setting up a prototyping line in XFW for fuselage production and integration for the XLR. The new wing has been in development for years. They have already done the beefing up in Mobil. The main headache in regards to the A220 is reworking the supply line, not something needing a lot of investments by Airbus, if they do not start buying up the suppliers.

The point I am making is, that there are no significant investments that Airbus has to do in the near future. The design and development work for new versions of the A320 family has mostly been done. Apart from that Airbus is in a strong financial position, if they should need to do something.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 920
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:06 pm

While the focus is on the A321, I’m wondering if there is anything possible to save the A330neo. There are a number of white tails and few deliveries. Does Airbus expect to stretch the A321 to plug the hole in the lineup between the A321 and A350?
 
VV
Posts: 2352
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:06 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
While the focus is on the A321, I’m wondering if there is anything possible to save the A330neo. There are a number of white tails and few deliveries. Does Airbus expect to stretch the A321 to plug the hole in the lineup between the A321 and A350?


How many A330neo white tails are there?
Where are they stored?
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 5733
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:38 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
While the focus is on the A321, I’m wondering if there is anything possible to save the A330neo. There are a number of white tails and few deliveries. Does Airbus expect to stretch the A321 to plug the hole in the lineup between the A321 and A350?

I think just naturally wait till airlines needing replacement should be good enough? it's not like the aircraft is an expensive all new program that need to sell many to recoup the cost. And with how older aircraft retirement are being accelerated during this pandemic, when travel demand recover, extra capacity is going to be needed.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 920
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:06 pm

VV wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
While the focus is on the A321, I’m wondering if there is anything possible to save the A330neo. There are a number of white tails and few deliveries. Does Airbus expect to stretch the A321 to plug the hole in the lineup between the A321 and A350?


How many A330neo white tails are there?
Where are they stored?


Airfleets doesn’t show where the A330s that don’t have customers are

https://www.airfleets.net/listing/a330-31.htm

As of last October there were 14 undelivered A330s.

https://airwaysmag.com/manufacturer/air ... -aircraft/

With only 4 A330s delivered so far this year, I assume the current count of undelivered A330s is now higher and includes white tails based on data on Airfleets. Will further A321 derivatives cover the customers that originally intended to buy A330neos?
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 920
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:13 pm

c933103 wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
While the focus is on the A321, I’m wondering if there is anything possible to save the A330neo. There are a number of white tails and few deliveries. Does Airbus expect to stretch the A321 to plug the hole in the lineup between the A321 and A350?

I think just naturally wait till airlines needing replacement should be good enough? it's not like the aircraft is an expensive all new program that need to sell many to recoup the cost. And with how older aircraft retirement are being accelerated during this pandemic, when travel demand recover, extra capacity is going to be needed.


My question is how much longer can Airbus afford to keep building A330s that customers don’t want? Will they eventually try to convert some of these customers like Air Asia X to A321 or A350 derivatives?

This recently came out

The A330 family, meanwhile, will remain at an average pace of two per month for the foreseeable future. Airbus says it is ‘protecting its ability to further adapt as the market evolves’.


https://simpleflying.com/airbus-production-increases/

A330neo production isn’t going to increase behind 2 per month and Airbus is protecting its ability to adapt. An A322 may kill the A330neo
 
WIederling
Posts: 10043
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:33 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
It would be utterly illogical for Airbus to strike first with an all-new offering in that segment, when they already have an uncontested product that is selling fast, to everything from global hub carriers to LoCos.


culture clash.

Having your customer over a barrel and and have him feel it in public is popular in the US but not really EuroStyle.

some continuing progress makes all participants feel better.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9652
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:11 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
While the focus is on the A321, I’m wondering if there is anything possible to save the A330neo. There are a number of white tails and few deliveries. Does Airbus expect to stretch the A321 to plug the hole in the lineup between the A321 and A350?

I think just naturally wait till airlines needing replacement should be good enough? it's not like the aircraft is an expensive all new program that need to sell many to recoup the cost. And with how older aircraft retirement are being accelerated during this pandemic, when travel demand recover, extra capacity is going to be needed.


My question is how much longer can Airbus afford to keep building A330s that customers don’t want? Will they eventually try to convert some of these customers like Air Asia X to A321 or A350 derivatives?

This recently came out

The A330 family, meanwhile, will remain at an average pace of two per month for the foreseeable future. Airbus says it is ‘protecting its ability to further adapt as the market evolves’.


https://simpleflying.com/airbus-production-increases/

A330neo production isn’t going to increase behind 2 per month and Airbus is protecting its ability to adapt. An A322 may kill the A330neo


Oh the worry of Boeing friends about the A330.

Let us compare.

A Boeing frame still produced today, 767

2020 30
2019 43
2018 27
2017 10
2016 13
2015 16
2014 6
2013 21
2012 26
2011 20
2010 12
2009 13
2008 10
2007 12
2006 12
2005 10
2004 9
2003 24
2002 35
2001 40
Quite a few years since the 767 was delivered in significant numbers. Still the frame lived through years of low rate production.

Deliveries of A330
2020 19
2019 53
2018 49
2017 67
2016 66
2015 103
2014 108
2013 108
2012 101
2011 87
2010 87
2009 76
2008 72
2007 68
2006 62
2005 56
2004 47
2003 31
2002 42
2001 35

There is one year in this time where deliveries fell below 2 a month, last year. Do people really think that Airbus will not be able if needed to get through a few years of low rate deliveries?
Anyway, contrary to the 787, there are not heaps of undelivered frames. Airbus did cut production rates a while ago.

Unfilled orders for the A330 currently stand at 295. That is 12 years production at rate 2 per month or 24 a year. I assume production and delivery rates will increase again.
 
beertrucker
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:13 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:38 pm

I still think something like an A310Neo or something close to it would be that perfect replacement for 767 size aircraft and those who want a wide body without going as big as an A338. There are some great planes out there that would do good with new engines and small minor updates to modernize.
 
Kikko19
Posts: 727
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:50 pm

beertrucker wrote:
I still think something like an A310Neo or something close to it would be that perfect replacement for 767 size aircraft and those who want a wide body without going as big as an A338. There are some great planes out there that would do good with new engines and small minor updates to modernize.

Agree. A300 or a310. New wings, New engines would be perfect.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 920
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:58 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
I think just naturally wait till airlines needing replacement should be good enough? it's not like the aircraft is an expensive all new program that need to sell many to recoup the cost. And with how older aircraft retirement are being accelerated during this pandemic, when travel demand recover, extra capacity is going to be needed.


My question is how much longer can Airbus afford to keep building A330s that customers don’t want? Will they eventually try to convert some of these customers like Air Asia X to A321 or A350 derivatives?

This recently came out

The A330 family, meanwhile, will remain at an average pace of two per month for the foreseeable future. Airbus says it is ‘protecting its ability to further adapt as the market evolves’.


https://simpleflying.com/airbus-production-increases/

A330neo production isn’t going to increase behind 2 per month and Airbus is protecting its ability to adapt. An A322 may kill the A330neo


Oh the worry of Boeing friends about the A330.

Let us compare.

A Boeing frame still produced today, 767

2020 30
2019 43
2018 27
2017 10
2016 13
2015 16
2014 6
2013 21
2012 26
2011 20
2010 12
2009 13
2008 10
2007 12
2006 12
2005 10
2004 9
2003 24
2002 35
2001 40
Quite a few years since the 767 was delivered in significant numbers. Still the frame lived through years of low rate production.

Deliveries of A330
2020 19
2019 53
2018 49
2017 67
2016 66
2015 103
2014 108
2013 108
2012 101
2011 87
2010 87
2009 76
2008 72
2007 68
2006 62
2005 56
2004 47
2003 31
2002 42
2001 35

There is one year in this time where deliveries fell below 2 a month, last year. Do people really think that Airbus will not be able if needed to get through a few years of low rate deliveries?
Anyway, contrary to the 787, there are not heaps of undelivered frames. Airbus did cut production rates a while ago.

Unfilled orders for the A330 currently stand at 295. That is 12 years production at rate 2 per month or 24 a year. I assume production and delivery rates will increase again.


Your point is valid that the 767 survived at low production rates longer than anyone thought it would. The 767 has survived due to freighters and tankers where its competition is minimal and is currently the highest production rate airplane at the Everett Factory. The 767 can fit the gate space requirements for MEM and SDF hubs for the overnight sorts where as no other recent widebody can (MD11s fit which is why they are still flying). The 767 has some unique characteristics that make it work well as a freighter that other widebodies don’t have. I’m not sure what the unique selling point for the A330neo is other than commonality with the A330ceo and whether or not that is enough

The A330neo has a big backlog from customers with questionable ability to take new planes. Air Asia X, Iran Air and Garuda aren’t likely to be taking planes in the near future unlike FedEx, UPS and the US Air Force. The future of the A330neo is certainly something that should be discussed and whether closing the gap it leaves with a larger narrowbody makes sense for Airbus.

Does Airbus keep building white tail A330neos or do they invest in a larger A321?
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9652
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:33 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

My question is how much longer can Airbus afford to keep building A330s that customers don’t want? Will they eventually try to convert some of these customers like Air Asia X to A321 or A350 derivatives?

This recently came out



https://simpleflying.com/airbus-production-increases/

A330neo production isn’t going to increase behind 2 per month and Airbus is protecting its ability to adapt. An A322 may kill the A330neo


Oh the worry of Boeing friends about the A330.

Let us compare.

A Boeing frame still produced today, 767

2020 30
2019 43
2018 27
2017 10
2016 13
2015 16
2014 6
2013 21
2012 26
2011 20
2010 12
2009 13
2008 10
2007 12
2006 12
2005 10
2004 9
2003 24
2002 35
2001 40
Quite a few years since the 767 was delivered in significant numbers. Still the frame lived through years of low rate production.

Deliveries of A330
2020 19
2019 53
2018 49
2017 67
2016 66
2015 103
2014 108
2013 108
2012 101
2011 87
2010 87
2009 76
2008 72
2007 68
2006 62
2005 56
2004 47
2003 31
2002 42
2001 35

There is one year in this time where deliveries fell below 2 a month, last year. Do people really think that Airbus will not be able if needed to get through a few years of low rate deliveries?
Anyway, contrary to the 787, there are not heaps of undelivered frames. Airbus did cut production rates a while ago.

Unfilled orders for the A330 currently stand at 295. That is 12 years production at rate 2 per month or 24 a year. I assume production and delivery rates will increase again.


Your point is valid that the 767 survived at low production rates longer than anyone thought it would. The 767 has survived due to freighters and tankers where its competition is minimal and is currently the highest production rate airplane at the Everett Factory. The 767 can fit the gate space requirements for MEM and SDF hubs for the overnight sorts where as no other recent widebody can (MD11s fit which is why they are still flying). The 767 has some unique characteristics that make it work well as a freighter that other widebodies don’t have. I’m not sure what the unique selling point for the A330neo is other than commonality with the A330ceo and whether or not that is enough

The A330neo has a big backlog from customers with questionable ability to take new planes. Air Asia X, Iran Air and Garuda aren’t likely to be taking planes in the near future unlike FedEx, UPS and the US Air Force. The future of the A330neo is certainly something that should be discussed and whether closing the gap it leaves with a larger narrowbody makes sense for Airbus.

Does Airbus keep building white tail A330neos or do they invest in a larger A321?


The freighters and tankers are included in the numbers. If you count only passenger jets the numbers for the 767 will be reduced.

The unique selling point of the A330neo is being part of the most successful midsized wide body family, flown by more airlines than any other wide body family.
Taking away AirAsia X, Garuda and Iran Air, still leaves 182 frames. Still a 7 year backlog at 2 frames a month. I do not remember when the 767 had a similar backlog apart from the tanker order. And the A330 has still backlog from the tanker applications.

Most of the last years, the A330 did not have a large backlog, but still delivered nearly as many frames in the last 9 years as the 787.

I do not understand your preoccupation with A330 white tails, Airbus has cut the production a while ago. There is no build up of whitetails. If you are looking for wide body white tails, try the 787.
 
Opus99
Posts: 2432
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:44 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

Oh the worry of Boeing friends about the A330.

Let us compare.

A Boeing frame still produced today, 767

2020 30
2019 43
2018 27
2017 10
2016 13
2015 16
2014 6
2013 21
2012 26
2011 20
2010 12
2009 13
2008 10
2007 12
2006 12
2005 10
2004 9
2003 24
2002 35
2001 40
Quite a few years since the 767 was delivered in significant numbers. Still the frame lived through years of low rate production.

Deliveries of A330
2020 19
2019 53
2018 49
2017 67
2016 66
2015 103
2014 108
2013 108
2012 101
2011 87
2010 87
2009 76
2008 72
2007 68
2006 62
2005 56
2004 47
2003 31
2002 42
2001 35

There is one year in this time where deliveries fell below 2 a month, last year. Do people really think that Airbus will not be able if needed to get through a few years of low rate deliveries?
Anyway, contrary to the 787, there are not heaps of undelivered frames. Airbus did cut production rates a while ago.

Unfilled orders for the A330 currently stand at 295. That is 12 years production at rate 2 per month or 24 a year. I assume production and delivery rates will increase again.


Your point is valid that the 767 survived at low production rates longer than anyone thought it would. The 767 has survived due to freighters and tankers where its competition is minimal and is currently the highest production rate airplane at the Everett Factory. The 767 can fit the gate space requirements for MEM and SDF hubs for the overnight sorts where as no other recent widebody can (MD11s fit which is why they are still flying). The 767 has some unique characteristics that make it work well as a freighter that other widebodies don’t have. I’m not sure what the unique selling point for the A330neo is other than commonality with the A330ceo and whether or not that is enough

The A330neo has a big backlog from customers with questionable ability to take new planes. Air Asia X, Iran Air and Garuda aren’t likely to be taking planes in the near future unlike FedEx, UPS and the US Air Force. The future of the A330neo is certainly something that should be discussed and whether closing the gap it leaves with a larger narrowbody makes sense for Airbus.

Does Airbus keep building white tail A330neos or do they invest in a larger A321?


The freighters and tankers are included in the numbers. If you count only passenger jets the numbers for the 767 will be reduced.

The unique selling point of the A330neo is being part of the most successful midsized wide body family, flown by more airlines than any other wide body family.
Taking away AirAsia X, Garuda and Iran Air, still leaves 182 frames. Still a 7 year backlog at 2 frames a month. I do not remember when the 767 had a similar backlog apart from the tanker order. And the A330 has still backlog from the tanker applications.

Most of the last years, the A330 did not have a large backlog, but still delivered nearly as many frames in the last 9 years as the 787.

I do not understand your preoccupation with A330 white tails, Airbus has cut the production a while ago. There is no build up of whitetails. If you are looking for wide body white tails, try the 787.

I hope you apply this same logic to the 777X
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 920
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:52 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

Oh the worry of Boeing friends about the A330.

Let us compare.

A Boeing frame still produced today, 767

2020 30
2019 43
2018 27
2017 10
2016 13
2015 16
2014 6
2013 21
2012 26
2011 20
2010 12
2009 13
2008 10
2007 12
2006 12
2005 10
2004 9
2003 24
2002 35
2001 40
Quite a few years since the 767 was delivered in significant numbers. Still the frame lived through years of low rate production.

Deliveries of A330
2020 19
2019 53
2018 49
2017 67
2016 66
2015 103
2014 108
2013 108
2012 101
2011 87
2010 87
2009 76
2008 72
2007 68
2006 62
2005 56
2004 47
2003 31
2002 42
2001 35

There is one year in this time where deliveries fell below 2 a month, last year. Do people really think that Airbus will not be able if needed to get through a few years of low rate deliveries?
Anyway, contrary to the 787, there are not heaps of undelivered frames. Airbus did cut production rates a while ago.

Unfilled orders for the A330 currently stand at 295. That is 12 years production at rate 2 per month or 24 a year. I assume production and delivery rates will increase again.


Your point is valid that the 767 survived at low production rates longer than anyone thought it would. The 767 has survived due to freighters and tankers where its competition is minimal and is currently the highest production rate airplane at the Everett Factory. The 767 can fit the gate space requirements for MEM and SDF hubs for the overnight sorts where as no other recent widebody can (MD11s fit which is why they are still flying). The 767 has some unique characteristics that make it work well as a freighter that other widebodies don’t have. I’m not sure what the unique selling point for the A330neo is other than commonality with the A330ceo and whether or not that is enough

The A330neo has a big backlog from customers with questionable ability to take new planes. Air Asia X, Iran Air and Garuda aren’t likely to be taking planes in the near future unlike FedEx, UPS and the US Air Force. The future of the A330neo is certainly something that should be discussed and whether closing the gap it leaves with a larger narrowbody makes sense for Airbus.

Does Airbus keep building white tail A330neos or do they invest in a larger A321?


The freighters and tankers are included in the numbers. If you count only passenger jets the numbers for the 767 will be reduced.

The unique selling point of the A330neo is being part of the most successful midsized wide body family, flown by more airlines than any other wide body family.
Taking away AirAsia X, Garuda and Iran Air, still leaves 182 frames. Still a 7 year backlog at 2 frames a month. I do not remember when the 767 had a similar backlog apart from the tanker order. And the A330 has still backlog from the tanker applications.

Most of the last years, the A330 did not have a large backlog, but still delivered nearly as many frames in the last 9 years as the 787.

I do not understand your preoccupation with A330 white tails, Airbus has cut the production a while ago. There is no build up of whitetails. If you are looking for wide body white tails, try the 787.


Why would you exclude the 767 freighters when talking about sustaining low production rates? Airbus doesn’t have financially healthy freight operators ready to place orders and eager for deliveries with the A330neo.

I guess we will agree to disagree if you think the A330neo has a 7 year backlog. Looking at the backlog and open orders, I don’t see 7 years worth of realistic deliveries. I see Airbus facing challenges finding customers even delivering two per month which could influence the decision to offer a stretched A321
 
LDRA
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:01 am

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:02 pm

beertrucker wrote:
I still think something like an A310Neo or something close to it would be that perfect replacement for 767 size aircraft and those who want a wide body without going as big as an A338. There are some great planes out there that would do good with new engines and small minor updates to modernize.

There really is no suitable engine for this MTOW
 
User avatar
FiscAutTecGarte
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:08 pm

Rifitto wrote:
one thing Boeing is doing so damn well is reading the market , although the execution is sometimes awful


747-8i and 747-8f were total misreads of the market. Should have pumped the money in to 777 sooner and let 747 die at the 400, 400ER and 400F. Complete waste of time and energy.

But never mind all of that. I always like the 739, and 739ER. I did seriously... I really though it was a good platform to do a solid 200pax 32"pitch 4 flight attendent single class CASM monster if they could fix the field performance. I thought 9MAX would add an additonal 10% efficiency and usher in something to improve field performance...... but short of something drastic I could see my beloved just didn't have much more potential.... Of course, looks like the 10MAX might have introduced something that would have been appreciated had it been available for the 9MAX. However, didn't matter... soooo many things were done right with the A321 thanks to good early decisions 30 years ago that no bag of tricks was necessary... The A321neo, A321LR, A321XLR were just bound to be a hit.... and they haven't even put a new wing on this thing yet. There is lots of potential left in the A320 family.... and even the A350 family. 787 is a great plane, but it's going to suffer from Boeing wanting to protect the lower end of the 777... just as the 777 suffered when Boeing wanted to protect the 747... The A350 however is free to grow as she pleases... the WhaleJets has been moved out of the way for the A350 to shine...
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9652
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:49 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

Your point is valid that the 767 survived at low production rates longer than anyone thought it would. The 767 has survived due to freighters and tankers where its competition is minimal and is currently the highest production rate airplane at the Everett Factory. The 767 can fit the gate space requirements for MEM and SDF hubs for the overnight sorts where as no other recent widebody can (MD11s fit which is why they are still flying). The 767 has some unique characteristics that make it work well as a freighter that other widebodies don’t have. I’m not sure what the unique selling point for the A330neo is other than commonality with the A330ceo and whether or not that is enough

The A330neo has a big backlog from customers with questionable ability to take new planes. Air Asia X, Iran Air and Garuda aren’t likely to be taking planes in the near future unlike FedEx, UPS and the US Air Force. The future of the A330neo is certainly something that should be discussed and whether closing the gap it leaves with a larger narrowbody makes sense for Airbus.

Does Airbus keep building white tail A330neos or do they invest in a larger A321?


The freighters and tankers are included in the numbers. If you count only passenger jets the numbers for the 767 will be reduced.

The unique selling point of the A330neo is being part of the most successful midsized wide body family, flown by more airlines than any other wide body family.
Taking away AirAsia X, Garuda and Iran Air, still leaves 182 frames. Still a 7 year backlog at 2 frames a month. I do not remember when the 767 had a similar backlog apart from the tanker order. And the A330 has still backlog from the tanker applications.

Most of the last years, the A330 did not have a large backlog, but still delivered nearly as many frames in the last 9 years as the 787.

I do not understand your preoccupation with A330 white tails, Airbus has cut the production a while ago. There is no build up of whitetails. If you are looking for wide body white tails, try the 787.


Why would you exclude the 767 freighters when talking about sustaining low production rates? Airbus doesn’t have financially healthy freight operators ready to place orders and eager for deliveries with the A330neo.

I guess we will agree to disagree if you think the A330neo has a 7 year backlog. Looking at the backlog and open orders, I don’t see 7 years worth of realistic deliveries. I see Airbus facing challenges finding customers even delivering two per month which could influence the decision to offer a stretched A321


I included the freighters and tankers.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 14178
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:55 am

WIederling wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
It would be utterly illogical for Airbus to strike first with an all-new offering in that segment, when they already have an uncontested product that is selling fast, to everything from global hub carriers to LoCos.

culture clash.

Having your customer over a barrel and and have him feel it in public is popular in the US but not really EuroStyle.

some continuing progress makes all participants feel better.

All fair and good, but by all observable measures, Airbus is taking the direction I described, not the nebulous perception of "culture" that you're purporting here....



Kikko19 wrote:
beertrucker wrote:
I still think something like an A310Neo or something close to it would be that perfect replacement for 767 size aircraft and those who want a wide body without going as big as an A338. There are some great planes out there that would do good with new engines and small minor updates to modernize.

Agree. A300 or a310. New wings, New engines would be perfect.

"Perfect" for what? If it was generally so great, the OEMs would've done it long ago.

The thing is, relative to what's already out there (or can already be fairly easily produced), a short A310/767 body is a lot of extra weight in exchange for comparatively little return.

In the days when FR may be coming out with a 230-seater 737 able to fly up to 6hrs, and multiple other airlines will have 160ish seater A321s able to fly up to 10hrs; the number of markets that an extra aisle + several dozen more tons of weight, would likely serve more profitably-- might not be so obvious as you might initially think, for both shorthaul and longhaul interests.
 
WIederling
Posts: 10043
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:46 am

LAX772LR wrote:
WIederling wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
It would be utterly illogical for Airbus to strike first with an all-new offering in that segment, when they already have an uncontested product that is selling fast, to everything from global hub carriers to LoCos.

culture clash.

Having your customer over a barrel and and have him feel it in public is popular in the US but not really EuroStyle.

some continuing progress makes all participants feel better.

All fair and good, but by all observable measures, Airbus is taking the direction I described, not the nebulous perception of "culture" that you're purporting here....
.

may be look closer !?

under the hood the products are improved and capabilities extended over time.
rearranging of "customer under duress" deliveries is a large thing.

compare to that B product where you sit in an museum of flight exhibit that kills unexpectedly. :-)
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 14178
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:25 am

WIederling wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
WIederling wrote:
culture clash.

Having your customer over a barrel and and have him feel it in public is popular in the US but not really EuroStyle.

some continuing progress makes all participants feel better.

All fair and good, but by all observable measures, Airbus is taking the direction I described, not the nebulous perception of "culture" that you're purporting here....
.

may be look closer !?

Orrrrr, maybe pay attention before you attempt at contradicting. ;)

...because, at no point did I make the case that they won't innovate their current product line; the distinction is that they have no reason to obsolete said current product line by launching an all-new product within the market segment, while they hold the upper hand.
 
VV
Posts: 2352
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:13 am

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
VV wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
While the focus is on the A321, I’m wondering if there is anything possible to save the A330neo. There are a number of white tails and few deliveries. Does Airbus expect to stretch the A321 to plug the hole in the lineup between the A321 and A350?


How many A330neo white tails are there?
Where are they stored?


Airfleets doesn’t show where the A330s that don’t have customers are

https://www.airfleets.net/listing/a330-31.htm

As of last October there were 14 undelivered A330s.

https://airwaysmag.com/manufacturer/air ... -aircraft/

With only 4 A330s delivered so far this year, I assume the current count of undelivered A330s is now higher and includes white tails based on data on Airfleets. Will further A321 derivatives cover the customers that originally intended to buy A330neos?


There are not so many white tails after all. It is still a manageable number.

The question is if there will be more deliveries or more customer in the future.
It does not look like the A330neo is highly popular, despite the low pricing.
 
Kikko19
Posts: 727
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:45 am

LAX772LR wrote:
WIederling wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
It would be utterly illogical for Airbus to strike first with an all-new offering in that segment, when they already have an uncontested product that is selling fast, to everything from global hub carriers to LoCos.

culture clash.

Having your customer over a barrel and and have him feel it in public is popular in the US but not really EuroStyle.

some continuing progress makes all participants feel better.

All fair and good, but by all observable measures, Airbus is taking the direction I described, not the nebulous perception of "culture" that you're purporting here....



Kikko19 wrote:
beertrucker wrote:
I still think something like an A310Neo or something close to it would be that perfect replacement for 767 size aircraft and those who want a wide body without going as big as an A338. There are some great planes out there that would do good with new engines and small minor updates to modernize.

Agree. A300 or a310. New wings, New engines would be perfect.

"Perfect" for what? If it was generally so great, the OEMs would've done it long ago.

The thing is, relative to what's already out there (or can already be fairly easily produced), a short A310/767 body is a lot of extra weight in exchange for comparatively little return.

In the days when FR may be coming out with a 230-seater 737 able to fly up to 6hrs, and multiple other airlines will have 160ish seater A321s able to fly up to 10hrs; the number of markets that an extra aisle + several dozen more tons of weight, would likely serve more profitably-- might not be so obvious as you might initially think, for both shorthaul and longhaul interests.
I meant perfect between a321xlr and A338. 200/250 pax up to 5000 nm.
 
User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 1540
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:11 pm

seahawk wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Translation, we don't have the billions for new factories and there doesn't look to be enough competition to worry about.

This will be like after the 737NG was released, a long period of improvements, but no new models. Until someone launches an innovative new model and then the market must adapt.

Lightsaber


Translation: We just up-graded or added completely new models to our line-up and there are disrupting technologies on the horizon, that could render current technology obsolete, so we do not invest into a completely new design at the moment. Which imho is wise, as long as it is not clear what the sustainable and renewable fuel for the future will be.
:checkmark:
 
User avatar
JerseyFlyer
Posts: 1748
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 7:24 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:40 pm

Airbus official update due tomorrow.

Leeham is speculating about announcements for the A350F and A322. If the latter, I wonder if it may be relevant to the expected UA order?

https://leehamnews.com/2021/06/14/airbu ... ls-reveal/
 
FluidFlow
Posts: 1116
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 am

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:40 pm

The stars start to lign up for Airbus future plan, and it seems to take the direction I was speculating about:

The 321 will move into the MoM space (XLR/322) becomming their own family with a new wing 2030-2032. The 220 will be stretched and the 320neo will be phased out by proving it uncompetitive so the lines can be filled with 321neos (which make higher profit).

Then in 2035 we will have the 320 replacement with the ducted fan announced by Safran and GE. Then as soon as the new engine is scaled up the 321/322new wing option will get the new engine too 2040.
 
ewt340
Posts: 1465
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:44 pm

If Airbus did expand A220 offering with the A220-500. What could Boeing do at this point?
A220 is a clean sheet design that utilizing composite materials for its design. And the -500 is a double stretch design, which mean that fuel economy would be amazing.

If Boeing came up with MAX replacement in 2025-2030. How much advantages could they gain compared to A220-500?
 
744SPX
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:20 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:04 pm

FluidFlow wrote:
The stars start to lign up for Airbus future plan, and it seems to take the direction I was speculating about:

The 321 will move into the MoM space (XLR/322) becomming their own family with a new wing 2030-2032. The 220 will be stretched and the 320neo will be phased out by proving it uncompetitive so the lines can be filled with 321neos (which make higher profit).

Then in 2035 we will have the 320 replacement with the ducted fan announced by Safran and GE. Then as soon as the new engine is scaled up the 321/322new wing option will get the new engine too 2040.


That strategy seems the most likely to me.
 
Noshow
Posts: 2705
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:09 pm

What would be the best plan for Boeing then? Wait?
 
User avatar
FiscAutTecGarte
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:04 am

FluidFlow wrote:
The stars start to lign up for Airbus future plan, and it seems to take the direction I was speculating about:

The 321 will move into the MoM space (XLR/322) becomming their own family with a new wing 2030-2032. The 220 will be stretched and the 320neo will be phased out by proving it uncompetitive so the lines can be filled with 321neos (which make higher profit).

Then in 2035 we will have the 320 replacement with the ducted fan announced by Safran and GE. Then as soon as the new engine is scaled up the 321/322new wing option will get the new engine too 2040.


I mostly agree... but I'm in the Keesje camp and believe they will stretch the A320 to make their A320.5 (or A320++).. It will be stretched and receive a new wing... 175-180 single class capacity.... A321 220 single class capacity (comfortable.. not sardine 240).... A322 250 single class capacity (again, comfortable...not sardine seating).

I don't think that stretching the A320 removes the A220-500 either... It enables it... but A220-500 shouldn't grow too big.... 150-160pax... a mild simple stretch over the A220-300.

Meh, who knows... I sure don't. I'm just playing armchair fleet designer.... but it is really interesting to see the potential they have with just incremental improvements of their existing programs...
 
ewt340
Posts: 1465
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:49 am

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
The stars start to lign up for Airbus future plan, and it seems to take the direction I was speculating about:

The 321 will move into the MoM space (XLR/322) becomming their own family with a new wing 2030-2032. The 220 will be stretched and the 320neo will be phased out by proving it uncompetitive so the lines can be filled with 321neos (which make higher profit).

Then in 2035 we will have the 320 replacement with the ducted fan announced by Safran and GE. Then as soon as the new engine is scaled up the 321/322new wing option will get the new engine too 2040.


I mostly agree... but I'm in the Keesje camp and believe they will stretch the A320 to make their A320.5 (or A320++).. It will be stretched and receive a new wing... 175-180 single class capacity.... A321 220 single class capacity (comfortable.. not sardine 240).... A322 250 single class capacity (again, comfortable...not sardine seating).

I don't think that stretching the A320 removes the A220-500 either... It enables it... but A220-500 shouldn't grow too big.... 150-160pax... a mild simple stretch over the A220-300.

Meh, who knows... I sure don't. I'm just playing armchair fleet designer.... but it is really interesting to see the potential they have with just incremental improvements of their existing programs...


I don't know, A220-300 carry maximum of 160 seats. With a 4,27m stretch it would have extra 6 rows of seats that increase its capacity to 190 seats already. The difference between A220-500 and stretched A320neo would be really miniscule while fuel savings of A220-500 would be way more attractive for airlines.
 
User avatar
flee
Posts: 1485
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:14 am

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:48 am

ewt340 wrote:
I don't know, A220-300 carry maximum of 160 seats. With a 4,27m stretch it would have extra 6 rows of seats that increase its capacity to 190 seats already. The difference between A220-500 and stretched A320neo would be really miniscule while fuel savings of A220-500 would be way more attractive for airlines.

IIRC the 160 seat A220-300 is an LCC configuration with 28" seat pitch. I think that a simple stretch for the A220-500 should make in an awesome aircraft for short to medium range missions with great CASM. It should make a good replacement for many B738/A320s.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:58 am

FluidFlow wrote:
The stars start to lign up for Airbus future plan, and it seems to take the direction I was speculating about:

The 321 will move into the MoM space (XLR/322) becomming their own family with a new wing 2030-2032. The 220 will be stretched and the 320neo will be phased out by proving it uncompetitive so the lines can be filled with 321neos (which make higher profit).

Then in 2035 we will have the 320 replacement with the ducted fan announced by Safran and GE. Then as soon as the new engine is scaled up the 321/322new wing option will get the new engine too 2040.

That looks incredibly possible, I agree with you. Airbus seems to be in comfortable zone in their product offering for each market segment without having to investing in all-new narrowbody, not at least until 2035/2040. Hypothetically, in next few years Airbus will have a pretty comprehensive line-up if they do launched the A322.

A220-100 -> 100 - 135
A220-300 -> 120 - 160
A220-500 -> 150 - 190(?)
A321neo -> 195 - 240
A321neoLR -> 195 - 220
A321neoXLR -> 180-200
A322 -> 220 - 250(?)
A330neo -> 260 - 400 (this maybe their weakest point but not neccessary)
A350 -> 315 - 480
 
Noshow
Posts: 2705
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:08 am

Can the A330 carry on? Maybe not.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9652
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:54 am

Noshow wrote:
Can the A330 carry on? Maybe not.


Maybe yes. The replacement cycle for the majority of the A330ceo has not started yet. 1,454 sold, 1,375 in operation.

And, as it is, hardly any wide body family is getting orders.
 
Noshow
Posts: 2705
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:00 am

The A330 replacement might very well be some A321XLR or "A322".
 
JonesNL
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:40 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:26 am

What time is the Airbus commercial update today?
 
Jetport
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:23 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:31 pm

Big pile of nothing announcements. Trade deal, no planned A322 and studying 350 freighter. :yawn:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/airbus-s ... 37761.html
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 26723
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:55 pm

Jetport wrote:
Big pile of nothing announcements. Trade deal, no planned A322 and studying 350 freighter. :yawn:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/airbus-s ... 37761.html

Even worse than nothing:

Airbus on Tuesday sought to dampen speculation about an upgrade to its best-selling A321neo single-aisle model, saying "there is no such thing" as a proposal to build what some media have dubbed an A322 with more seats and newer wings.

Seems significant to me that they not only aren't considering an A322, they're also telling everyone to stop talking about an A322.

Industry sources have said Airbus has kept in reserve studies based on carbon wings and updated engines if needed to counter any new plane that rival Boeing might launch in the top end of the medium-haul market, where Airbus has a strong lead.

Yet Boeing CEO's recent comments make it pretty clear Boeing is not going to launch anything new any time soon.

In turn it seems Airbus is more than happy to keep making hay while the sun shines.

Good for them, this is exactly what they should be doing, keep the R&D going and keep cashing in on their healthy backlog.

They confirmed that Airbus is examining a possible freighter version of its A350 wide-body jet, but said the company would only launch such a development when the conditions were right.

Traditionally dominated by Boeing, the freighter business is underserved by Airbus, Chief Commercial Officer Christian Scherer said.

Same old story, nothing will happen on A350F till they can secure the launch orders, and it's still hard to see where those would be coming from.

I'd say at this point with the various quotes being made they are in no man's land, they are talking up the market need to try to trigger interest but if they fail to launch a program by end of year they will have created a sense of disappointment.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 920
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:59 pm

So “there is no such thing” as an A322 proposal according to Airbus. Does that mean that the A322 is just an internet paper airplane that’s been floating around the internet for over a decade?
 
VV
Posts: 2352
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:01 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
So “there is no such thing” as an A322 proposal according to Airbus. Does that mean that the A322 is just an internet paper airplane that’s been floating around the internet for over a decade?


Does anyone know who started the nonsense of A322?
 
Noshow
Posts: 2705
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:05 pm

It's easy: No NMA, no A322 needed. They can cash in on A321neos instead.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 920
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Airbus focus is on evolving existing jet models, CEO says

Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:06 pm

VV wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
So “there is no such thing” as an A322 proposal according to Airbus. Does that mean that the A322 is just an internet paper airplane that’s been floating around the internet for over a decade?


Does anyone know who started the nonsense of A322?


Airbus has been saying for years they aren’t working on an A322

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1352403

That doesn’t stop dozens of unsourced A322 images floating around from armchair engineers who design airplanes in photoshop.

We now know more about what Airbus is actually evaluating

Airbus (AIR.PA) on Tuesday sought to dampen speculation about an upgrade to its best-selling A321neo single-aisle model, saying “there is no such thing” as a proposal to build what some media have dubbed an A322 with more seats and newer wings.

Industry sources have said Airbus has kept in reserve studies based on carbon wings and updated engines if needed to counter any new plane that rival Boeing (BA.N) might launch in the top end of the medium-haul market, where Airbus has a strong lead


https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-06-15/

Carbon wings and new engines (sounds like a 777x type upgrade) instead of stretches are what Airbus is studying

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos